Outdoor Hospitality News
For owners, operators, team members, and anyone else interested in camping, glamping, or the RV industry.
News for October 3, 2023
[00:00:00]
Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode [00:01:00] of MC Fireside Chats. My name’s Brian SRO with Insider Perks. Super excited to be here for our fourth week episode focusing on the RV industry. I keep saying like it’s a hybrid between RV industry and outdoor recreation, but I feel like we need someone on here.
To talk about talk outdoor recreation. So primarily focused on the RV industry today. But super excited to have recurring guests here. Phil Ingrassia from the RV, d a as well as Shane Devish from CRVA. We’re missing a couple of regular guests, some super important things going on, and I think August is vacation time for most people.
Looking forward to seeing what insights we have. And then we have a couple special guests here. Lemme check my notes ’cause I was late here running. But we have Jeremy Green, senior Director of Events and marketing at R V I A, obviously another industry. Heavyweight that is certainly very critical to the success of the industry.
And then Darryle Jensen, who’s the president of RV Wheel Leader he’s gonna discuss his services and business and things like that. Gentlemen, where do we wanna start today? Is there anything that’s critical that came across our desk in the last month or so that we want to talk about as far as the RV industry goes?
Besides my horrible washed out background?[00:02:00]
Deryle Jensen: I’d first or the.
It’s not wheeltor, it’s Wheelator, RV Wheelator.
Brian Searl: Okay. You can fire me. That’s okay. I don’t,
Deryle Jensen: Okay.
Brian Searl: You know I’ll just go away. I can turn off my camera and we’ll just let go of the entire show entire.
Shane Devenish: I don’t think we want the host to go away. We’re glad you got your microphone now.
Brian Searl: If you’ve ever watched a show, everyone wants me to go away.
But yeah, go ahead. D Darryle, you spoke up, so I pronounced your company name wrong, but tell us what Wheeler. Is it? Wheeler?
Deryle Jensen: Wheelator! It’s a play on the mispronunciation
Brian Searl: Wheelator I got it alright. Wheelator.
Deryle Jensen: Realtor, Wheelator
Brian Searl: Got it. Won’t happen again.
Deryle Jensen: That the word realtor doesn’t have an A in it. It’s realtor to, but nobody pronounces real to, they all say realtor.
So I trademarked the word Wheelator. And for the past 10 [00:03:00] years, we’ve successfully listed and sold recreational vehicles like real estate agents, list and sell homes in the lower 48 states. Haven’t got to Hawaii yet, and haven’t got to Alaska yet, but we will.
Brian Searl: Tell me about what made you get into the business?
It’s obviously been a long time, you’ve been successful, steady, but what made you get into it in the first place?
Deryle Jensen: Well some family friends of ours came to us with asking me to help them sell their RV. They were super senior citizens and they were done. They couldn’t travel anymore, and I selfishly didn’t help them.
And I have an automotive background. I know the industry and they went to the dealer. They had bought it from, Unfortunately they got paid about $50,000 less than wholesale. Ouch. And I went to see him and I said, gee, whizz, it could have [00:04:00] been fair. And the young man beat on his chest and told me that was his job.
So I told him that I developed a business model that would kick his ass, and I have. We only retail, retail business model in the RV.
Brian Searl: I just need to check with our moderator. One second. Shane, are we allowed to say Ass?
Shane Devenish: I, yeah. I think you’re, I think you’re okay with that
Deryle Jensen: Okay. I apologize. I didn’t mean to be too farce.
So anyway we have a retail to retail business model. We can do things that no one else can do. Like we can guarantee a private seller up to 50% more cash than the dealer. We can guarantee that same seller, a buyer. And just like real estate, we pay for all the advertising. So our service is no cost to the private seller, the fsbo, the buyer, pays a small commission.
It’s included in the advertised price. [00:05:00] And just tell you folks just how darn good my business is. One bad review in a decade. Like in 10 years, one. So there I am in a nutshell, guys, entrepreneur, working outta my home help and guess what? My job is introducing nice people to other nice people. That’s my job.
Brian Searl: So here’s how, here’s, and certainly there’s a larger picture for a debate. Nobody’s saying that you are saying that one person is better than the other. But nobody’s saying that as a overall blanket statement in the same way that I think there’s a place for, just like when you’re selling cars, right?
There’s a place for private people in private listings and certain segments,
Deryle Jensen: Right.
Brian Searl: Certainly a benefit to taking that to a dealership to. So how do you. How expand on your statement, right? ’cause it’s a pretty bold statement, right?
Deryle Jensen: Yes.
Brian Searl: So why do you feel that you are without, and we just certainly don’t wanna insult anybody.
In your opinion, why do you feel like your [00:06:00] services are different than the dealer?
Deryle Jensen: Pricing we have a fair pricing policy and our pricing, sorry.
Brian Searl: Your mic is a little bit staticky. I don’t know if you can fix that, if it’s a, if it’s on your end.
Deryle Jensen: I dunno how.
Brian Searl: But okay, so we, we have pricing, right?
And that’s fair to a certain extent. I don’t think that’s certainly a slight on a dealership. Much if you were to take a car in the private market, and resell in a newspaper or something like that, there’s a chance that you would get a little bit more for that. Is that something we can stipulate Phil?
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. Look private sales are just part of the vehicle business, right?
Brian Searl: For sure. Yeah.
Phil Ingrassia: Whether it’s boats, cars, trucks, farm equipment, or motor homes and travel trailers. Now, obviously there’s a place for every, everybody in the market. One of the things that.
Dealers do, and of course I work for the dealer, so I advocate for them is that not all used [00:07:00] RVs are created equal. Some that have been sitting around for a while need a heck of a lot of work before they’re saleable. Dealers invest quite a bit in reconditioning these units. The other thing is that not all RVs are suitable for resale by the dealer as well.
Dealers by and large stay away from, units that are 15 or 20 years old. That’s not to say that those units don’t have another life ahead of them somewhere, but dealers may, for whatever reason, not want to take those in on trade. Platforms like what Darryl’s using are very valuable.
And of course that can be a gateway drug, for, that lower priced RV or that first RV that people are buying because they are price conscious, especially for younger buyers, perhaps, or people that don’t have the means they can get in the lifestyle and then move on up.
It’s. If you have a scarcity mentality and think you only have to do it one way, that’s probably not gonna be all [00:08:00] that successful. There’s really a, it just depends on what the people need. Typically through a dealer that unit will be checked out and things like that before sale.
And that’s the value add, if you will, that, that dealers can provide. Making sure that unit is road ready and all set to go for folks who may not be tinkerers or know how to do it or wanna pay for an inspection.
Brian Searl: And that’s why I tossed it back to you, right?
Because I obviously there, there is, as you said, a benefit to both sides of it. And I wanna make sure we’re not attacking one or the other because they both work hand in hand, right? It’s the same thing as like a harvest host and a private Campground owner and a national park and Right. They all exist.
They all help funnel each business to each other. And like you said, again, dealerships is not my strong suit coming from the Campground side as much as that is, but I think that. There’s very much value in explaining kind of that side of the story where if I was a dealer, and again, not knowing anything about a dealer, but I would want to take in units where I know that the customers coming through my door are [00:09:00] gonna be shopping for more so than maybe the older model who, again, like you said, certainly has a life, but there is somebody out there who will buy that and pay a premium for it.
And that’s where Daryl comes in.
Phil Ingrassia: Or if people, if people have really, kind of cream pups and. And don’t need the dealer and consult through there. That’s to each his own. Nobody’s gonna, nobody on the dealer side is gonna say, private, demonize private sales.
It goes on all the time. Not that naive.
Brian Searl: No, and again, like we’ve just said, there’s a place for both. Would you agree there’s a place for both Deryle?
Deryle Jensen: Absolutely.
Brian Searl: Cool. All right. It just felt, it was like, it might’ve been getting a little too harsh there, so I just wanted to break that apart for a second and make sure,
Phil Ingrassia: Hey, Deryle, I have a question for you,
Deryle Jensen: yes?
Phil Ingrassia: One of the things that we’ve seen over the last obviously two and a half years is just this explosion in new units. Are you seeing some of these pandemic buyers use your platform because they’re gonna just leave the lifestyle?
Deryle Jensen: Yes there, there is abundance of Covid purchaser of RVs [00:10:00] that are looking for a way, step out it because it’s more than they expect. They it on the, with their eight away. So all kind, but gee, I gotta keep it insured even when I’m not doing it. And yeah, that an abundance prices are going down and
The abundance of inventory is in a rush situation, instead of being patient situation they’re in a, because payments never are coming due, they can’t handle it. So RV luxury item first to go.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. Jeremy, one of the things that Go RV did was some research on that pandemic buyer. And we knew we weren’t gonna have, we weren’t gonna be able to retain all those buyers. Everybody understood that once, the countries o both countries, us and Canada opened up, [00:11:00] it was gonna be very difficult to retain everybody.
But some of that research did show that we are holding onto a bunch of these folks,
Jeremy Greene: yeah and the research that we’ve done the net promoter score that we’re seeing coming back from new buyers is even higher than our traditional buyers. And so yeah, the Covid pandemic definitely lifted the entire market up and we knew we’d lose some people back on, out on the back end.
I think we were actually a little surprised at. The positive sentiment that we got from the new buyers, the overwhelming positive sentiment that we got. The, we’ve seen the average the median age decrease from, pre pandemic. It was 53 to, last year when we surveyed new buyers in 2022 is down to a median age of 32.
We’ve seen the diversity of our buyer more closely reflect the general American consumer. And we’ve done a lot with Go RVing and that, that national media campaign to really reach out to growth audiences. And bring in and lift the entire market. And, and seeing some folks that [00:12:00] bought it just for Covid, there was certainly a small sample of those folks that may be had looked to, to exit the market.
But overall it’s been a net positive boost for the industry.
Phil Ingrassia: Right? The kind of the installed base of RVs has really gone up. Through the pandemic as we pumped about a million and a half units into the North American bloodstream in a very short period, a record period of time for the industry.
So if we keep 60% and lose 40% there’s gonna be There’s gonna be a more used units available, that’s for sure. But if the industry works to keep those people in and provide them the Campground opportunities that they need, that’s gonna be important. So we’re.
We’re gonna be on a higher installed base moving forward for repeat buyers, but at the same time, I think everybody understands there’s gonna be more used units in the market than would normally be there because of that Covid buyer, [00:13:00] don’t you think? Shane?
Shane Devenish: Yeah. And like it that 40% figure that you say Phil.
Somebody, they’re not just gonna walk away from those units, people not wanting to, continue. They’re gonna sell it to somebody else. So the, this the number of units are still gonna be relatively the same. You’re just gonna have some maybe not being used for a while until they can find a new buyer,
Jeremy Greene: yeah there’s been just an overall shift, I think and what folks find valuable to their time. And the way they share that with friends and family and the outdoors is not going away. We saw that shift with the pandemic and, folks are going to stay in the outdoors and, RV provides ’em a great opportunity to access all the things they enjoy about the outdoors, just in an elevated way.
I think the industry is just really well positioned for the future. We all know we’re, we’ve got a challenging time right now with some of the macroeconomic factors, facing us. But in general, we’re, I think we’re positioned very strong as a, in the travel sector.
Brian Searl: I’m curious here, because we speculated on this show [00:14:00] before from a dealer perspective, from A C R V A and C R V C perspective with Shane from other guests and obviously me, maybe a little bit from the Campground side. But Jeremy, we never ask you the question and maybe you should just be a regular guest, Jeremy, if you want, but Because I think your per perspective is important once a month.
But I think in your mind as we talk about these, and sorry for the wind if it’s in the background, but in your mind as we talk about these covid buyers, exiting, some of them exiting the RV space, is there any research or data you can point to as to why overall they might be doing this? Is it a lack of campsites?
Is it the economy? Is it something else?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. The research that we did that looked into, new buyers and we ran this research in 20 20, 21 and 22, and that’s where we saw that median age drop. We saw diversity, rise. What we saw is that buyers were of RVs were buying for the same reason they always did.
I think the data that we have shows that the majority of those buyers were the same kind of buyers. Just that COVID. Push them to purchase, maybe a little bit sooner than they would’ve because it was a great opportunity to get in and then spend the time, in the way that they could control, their environment during that time.
Phil Ingrassia: So lot traffic was at, during the pandemic was over 50% and in some cases, 70% first time buyers go. RV shifted into educational. Because, and so did some of the manufacturers and dealers, the number of videos put up or by the suppliers, [00:16:00] manufacturers, dealers on how to use the units over the last, I don’t know, two and a half years has just exploded.
And and so we were in an education mode versus a promotion mode. And now with the business softening. We’re shifting gears again and going into promotion mode as we try to, move some of the, move some of the inventory off off dealer lots. And that’s that that’s what we’re all about over the next, six to eight months.
Jeremy Greene: And just to jump in there, Phil, that shift to education for the industry, I think was spot on. We’re actually about to come out with some research into aftermarket parts and accessories for the industry. We actually show the new buyers are more, are saying they were more well prepared for RV-ing than our traditional buyers.
So that shift to education I think was critical at the moment when the industry decided to make that move.
Brian Searl: That’s actually really interesting. Because is it a, I think I’ve known it ’cause I’ve been in it for so [00:17:00] long versus I’m new and I’ve researched it. And maybe more because when you’re coming into the industry, now you have the internet and you have maybe AI or even didn’t have AI back then, but Right.
You have multiple different paths to learn quicker than you would with just going to a dealer.
Deryle Jensen: I don’t,
Jeremy Greene: Go ahead.
Deryle Jensen: I don’t want to be a naysayer guys, but my situation. The rubber meat I’m dealing with.
Brian Searl: You still breaking up just a little bit. Darryl, I dunno if you can sit forward maybe it’s just Sounds like your mic is breaking up.
Deryle Jensen: Yeah. I’m dealing with a larger percentage of sellers that are in an
upside down situation than I ever did before. It the, because of lack of,
or their choices. I’m finding that many of them are in a negative equity situation far more than ever before, and that’s what I’m doing.[00:18:00]
Shane Devenish: What do you think what’s the percentage of your business in the last couple years versus before Covid.
Deryle Jensen: 25 to 40.
Shane Devenish: 40% up?
Deryle Jensen: Yeah. They’re No 40, 40% of them are upside down.
Shane Devenish: Oh, 40%…
Deryle Jensen: It was like 25% of ’em were upside down. Now it’s 40% of them. Everyone know when I’m talking to ’em, I say, wish, do you owe some money? And it goes dinging, ding. Might it? It’s
difficult. And so the only way that they’re gonna get out of it is go back to a dealer to refinance another unit and then again, being negative or find the amount that they’re short. And get rid of…
Brian Searl: Am I hearing this is mostly economic then? Either you’re underwater and your loan ’cause of the economy, or maybe like Jeremy said, you purchased too early because of Covid or, and you just weren’t ready for it.
But it seems like.
Deryle Jensen: In my business, [00:19:00] yes. That’s what I’m finding.
Brian Searl: So it’s not an unhappiness with the RVs, which we didn’t think it.
Deryle Jensen: It is that family that bought their first travel trailer with their three kids that are under the age of 10 have had their food stuff go up quite a bit and
their transportation costs go up quite a bit. The RV’s luxury item, they gotta get out of it.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. And dealers are dealing with this too, on trades as well.
You know what happens here? And for people who don’t understand what negative equity is, here’s what it is. Okay? You bought your, let’s just say you bought your RV at $25,000 new. You financed it over time. And then say you took a eight to 10 year loan out on it. So two years later you want to you wanna trade that thing in, [00:20:00] you pay you, you’ve got a 25.
A thousand dollars loan on it, but the RV’s only worth 17 five. So you’re, you still owe more money than it is actually book value worth. That’s negative equity. And the last time this happened was during the downturn of 2008, 2009 where interest rates and the market all kind of conspired to lower those values of those units.
Beyond what people had paid for, had financed them at so negative equity can rear its head in a private sale or at a trade in at the dealer. Yep. And and Darryl’s, right? One way is to basically go refinance your home. You go into the dealer, but you have to get another loan.
So then you put the negative equity on top of the other part of the financing, and it’s one payment. But, hopefully you don’t do it. You don’t get underwater again. But [00:21:00] certainly it is an issue. Right now, like it was about, 15 years ago 2008, 2009 time period, and we.
Brian Searl: But is the refinance option is available as it is today?
I feel like it’s not given that interest rates are up right?
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, it’s, it becomes even harder in a higher interest rate environment. That’s the way it is. If, people make a conscious decision, are they gonna put, how do you lower your interest rate, your, or your your monthly payment, the payment buyer?
How do they do it? There’s two ways you put more down or. You extend the period of the loan. So the further you extend the loan, the more aptt you are to be underwater or have negative equity when it comes time to trade. And some of the major banks are pretty on the record. They want a significant down payment, and they also are, they don’t like these 15, 20 year loans, which are really, which really [00:22:00] can be more apt to put the buyer in a negative equity situation.
However, that’s not to say, nobody’s the cops. People can do what they wanna do, right? So if you’re buying a $250,000 motor home and you want to take a 20 year loan out on it, almost like a mortgage, that’s your right to do that. If you can find the financing. But d Darryl’s, right? It’s a, it’s definitely a growing issue right now.
And higher interest rates just exacerbate the situation.
Deryle Jensen: Yeah.
Brian Searl: So what happens if you can’t sell? And I don’t mean a single person, right? But in large numbers, if we get more of these people and there’s a glut of inventory on dealerships and there’s a glut of inventory in the private market, as there already is, but if this continues to exacerbate and scale and go uphill, at what point do we really run into a serious issue?
If we have.
Phil Ingrassia: We did run into, you just have to go back to 2008, 2009. That was a serious issue. And [00:23:00] then you.
Brian Searl: Did you feel like, and I’m sorry I didn’t interrupt. Did you feel like it’s gonna be worse this time because of the amount of inventory that was injected right before it?
Phil Ingrassia: No, not at all.
Somebody asked me that today. I had a business writer asked me that today and that, what’s the difference? We’re not in a recession. Yet they keep saying what’s coming, but there, there isn’t a recession and credit availability is still good. We’re not, we don’t see the situation where credit availability had dried up where lenders were leaving the industry for whatever reason.
Jeremy Greene: And there’s some we’ll get, there’s some churn too that needs to happen right at retail. But retail’s, it seems like it’s outpacing wholesale. Would you say Phil towards.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, absolutely. It’s retail. Retail is down 25%, wholesale’s down almost 50% through the first half of the year in North America.
So it’s a little different in Canada, but it’s, that’s roughly where it is. And it. [00:24:00] It’s definitely a crunch right now. It’s definitely a crunch right now. But we do anticipate things are getting better and I know R Vi’s forecast is for a better 2024, correct?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. I mean we’re, 2023 we’re projecting just under 300,000 units wholesale shipments. And then in 2024 that number rises to about 350,000. We’re projecting sometime after the first of the year really to start to see a little bit of a turn there.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. To stay on a negative equity situation, a good rule of thumb for consumers is to put as much down as you can.
And keep your loan payment is within a short period of shorter period of time, and you’re much, much less likely to get stuck in a negative equity. Sometimes first time buyers don’t understand that. And if you’re keeping your unit for eight years, it doesn’t matter. Negative equity doesn’t come into play.
It’s only those people who bought. [00:25:00] And then want to get rid of it right away or within a shorter period of time. That, that can run into that Most of the time. Not always, but most of the time.
Shane Devenish: Yeah. And that, and that applies to, any asset that you drive around a car.
Same thing as a car. RVs are no different. Depreciation is higher the first couple years. And and the shorter you keep the unit. I guess the more you’re gonna be a little bit, o offside, but the longer you keep it, the less of an issue that is.
Brian Searl: And just from an ignorance perspective on loans you’re talking about because you paid more finance back in the front.
Than you do in the end, or.
Shane Devenish: No, you just, yeah, you pay more. I guess two things. The depreciation slows down. The depreciation is higher in the first couple years. Then then longer periods and also you’re start gonna pay back more principle in the in the latter part,
Phil Ingrassia: Shane’s a former banker, did I explain negative equity correctly.
Brian Searl: That’s why I asked we know how smart he [00:26:00] is.
Shane Devenish: Hey, hey I have a former breaker that tells you how smart I am.
I’m in the association business now, so.
Brian Searl: Let’s toss it to Jeremy for a second, because Jeremy, I wanna give you a chance to just talk about R B I in general. I don’t, I feel like we haven’t had an R B I person on here for a whatever reason. So I apologize for that, but like in general, what has RV I been up to or we need to know?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, no, happy to be on for those that don’t know where the association that represents the majority of all the manufacturers and suppliers of RV products in North America. And so we represent manufacturers and the suppliers of the product that go inside those RVs.
We. We do a lot of things from federal and state advocacy to, we’re probably most well known for our self-regulation program where we have standards that are our members agreed to adhere to we address those standards through unannounced inspections every [00:27:00] six weeks in manufacturer plants.
And that’s where you see that, that seal on the side of new units that basically says that the manufacturer, has has agreed to meet those standards and the part of that inspection program. And that’s typically what campgrounds look for. To make sure that it’s meeting all the safety and life standards for entrance into parks and campgrounds.
Big part of the things that we do are advocacy standards. Phil mentioned the Go RVing campaign, and that’s a partnership that the RV Industry Association has with the RV Dealers Association. And it’s all about lifting the market through a national media campaign. As well as PR efforts as well.
That’s just a taste of some of the main programs that we have. Another big one is we address the service side through the RV Technical Institute. Also a partnership with the RV Dealers Association there. And that’s recruiting and training service techs to make sure that folks can get their RV serviced in an appropriate time and back out Camping.
Just a few of the things that we do.
Brian Searl: How do you feel? That the RV industry, and I’ve asked, I think this to Bill, [00:28:00] we’ve talked about this before and the same thing with the RV ti who we’ve had on here before. And I apologize again for the wind. I’m just outside. I can’t literally move. But how do you feel like we can best address this?
Is there a service issue? First of all, I feel like there is. And then how can we best address it with the industry to make sure.
Jeremy Greene: What kind issue? I’m sorry, you broke up a little bit there.
Brian Searl: Is there a service issue in the industry? I think there is, based on who we’ve talked to. But then, and obviously it’s case by case, dealer by dealer, right?
But then how do we best tackle that so that the consumer continues to have a high opinion of the RV industry as a whole?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. Know we like to look at it as a complete holistic approach from, the product to the experience you get, in, in buying that product to.
Campgrounds availability and the infrastructure that folks are searching for. Then obviously service is a big, component to that as well. What I can tell you is that the RV Technical Institute, they’ve been around now, I don’t know, four or five years. We’ve brought over 14,000 techs, trained over 14,000 techs, since that time.[00:29:00]
Last year we recruited over 1200 new techs into the industry. It’s a, an issue that’s being addressed. Certainly, having a standard program of training is critical. And pushing, the service technicians through a career ladder, a career path. And the Army Technical Institute is develop that.
We work with dealers, we work with suppliers, we work with manufacturers. We even work with some consumers on training we’re really looking at it holistically to try and get more people into, everybody’s competing for techs right now, it’s a real challenge.
And we’re no different there. But we’ve invested as an industry over $10 million into, this challenge. And by bringing in 14,000 in the past, five years and training ’em we’re definitely making a dent there.
Brian Searl: For sure yeah. Nobody was ever questioning your attempt, so I apologize if it came across that way oh no. Working really hard toward it. I just think it’s important to continue reminding the people at the Campground owners who watch the people, the consumers who might be watching the show, right?
That there’s definitely progress being [00:30:00] made. There’s thousands of these new techs coming in we’re getting better. We know, it’s. It’s always in to a certain extent going to be an issue, but it’s a less of an issue every day that we move forward because.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. And one of the partnerships that we’re definitely interested and have been keying in on, is with campgrounds training campgrounds and folks there on the RV Technical Institute curriculum.
Oftentimes if there’s issues that folks might have, they might be in a Campground and experiencing that issue. Having somebody that’s that’s equipped with the knowledge and is right there and able to get somebody, to have that good service experience at the Campground is part of that measure.
Brian Searl: So let’s pivot a second to the, because I think the studies that you do in the data that you put out is very critical to industry overall, like dealer manufacturers.
How do you feel like the data that you’re providing is being used in a way to improve really all aspects of the [00:31:00] industry. We know it’s important, but what I’m asking is the nitty gritty of the, how does this study help this person? How does that make sense?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. I can take a piece of that ’cause we do a lot of different studies and data.
One of the more recent ones that we did was the demographic report on the RV consumer. And just from, working with the Go RVing program, we looked that, that broke down the RV consumer into seven different types. And we used that data to, to better develop the right authentic relationships with those type of customers.
We’re promoting the right, products, the right, lifestyle choices to the right audiences. So it’s helpful for us as a program to lift the industry and deliver new customers. But it’s also extremely helpful for dealers on the local level to target the right people in their back backyard, except for manufacturer and brands to make sure that they’re connecting to the right audiences in authentic way.
That’s just one piece. On the Campground side, we did [00:32:00] a large Campground study where, we looked at both the public and private side, and I know that there’s this, saying that there’s not enough campgrounds out there. And we found there’s actually, we a lot of campgrounds out there.
There’s, thousands and thousands of campgrounds. It’s very fragmented and difficult to find campgrounds for sure, for the user, and then on top of that, the infrastructure is a big challenge for. Especially on the public side. So we’re using that data on on our advocacy efforts to go into, state and federal.
Legislatures and conversations and try and advocate for increased infrastructure so that we’re able to improve the amenities that, campers are looking for. So the data that we have is used in a lot of different ways. Either by us as an association advocating on behalf of the industry.
Or by, different brands.
Brian Searl: I think it’s important to continue highlighting that, right? Because again, what we see, or at least what I see on a regular basis, is shipments are up, shipments are down, shipments are up, shipments are down. And that’s [00:33:00] really the headline number that we see more than anything else.
But there’s so much more to it, and that’s what I, that’s why I ask you the question.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, for sure. That is our bread and butter. That’s, what folks look to us for on, on that monthly basis, but, I would say at least quarterly we’ve got some piece of information.
We’ve actually got something coming out here within the next week around travel intentions. And we’re showing, heavily that, folks are looking to travel over, the Labor Day holiday 49% of all leisure travelers, which is represents 95 million folks. Plan to travel over Labor Day, but then we break that down into, RVs and 17% of them claim that they intend to have some type of RV experience over the course of those travels.
And that’s, that breaks down to 16.1 million US residents. I. Which is up from 12 million over the Memorial Day holiday. We use data like that and that’s just a short snippet, but we use data like that to, with the upcoming holiday to go out to media and share the story that is RVing and that folks are gravitating to it, [00:34:00] even in these, tough economic, cha, challenging times that we’re in right now.
Brian Searl: Is there a way, like if I’m in the shoes of a Campground and I’m running my business every day and I barely have time to look at my own website, Google Analytics and things like that, is there a way that I easily digest some of this information when I’m having conversations about my Campground but to.
My local media to my journalists, to people like that to spread this word or to analyze my it’s very hard to read that long report, right? If you’re a consumer or if you’re a camera owner and you have 40,000 things that you’re doing. So is there an easy way to adjust these bullet points for them or disseminate them easier?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, oftentimes we try and come up with different ways of pushing out, the data. Either we’ll have a full 200 page study that folks can dig in and read and sometimes we just try and hit the highlights. One of the things we try and do as an industry and, got our partners and Shane and Phil, here as well.
We try and work together from the manufacturer, supplier, Campground dealer side to make sure that we’re all speaking the same tune and sharing [00:35:00] resources, and those high points. And so oftentimes it comes down to just, a few talking points maybe that we can share out of the larger study.
All right. What else we got gentlemen?
Phil Ingrassia: One of the things, and I’d be interested in hearing from Deryle about this is, while sales have cooled off the interest and the use at campgrounds is incredibly high Jeremy said that RV i’s got a report coming out that it’s gonna be big Labor Day, KOA put their Campground forecast up.
The gore being web traffic is very high. There’s a lot of interest. It’s just because of whatever reason people are having a harder time pulling the trigger maybe on, on buying that new unit. Darryle, are you seeing increased traffic at your site?
Deryle Jensen: We’re seeing increased increase traffic, people planning to sell after Labor Day weekend.
That’s they. Now the last 10, the kids go to school, whatever, [00:36:00] or the eighth, September.
And one more time. And they are researching us to find out what we do and how we do it. And I expect a surge of business by the middle of that’s what I’m seeing. Also, in reference to your statistics, what I noticed is the younger people.
It’s younger and younger people that are getting involved in the RV. And then there’s the older and older ones that are maintaining their health. And it’s real simple for me to understand. The young ones will text and email all day long. The older ones, I gotta answer that phone, or they ain’t doing business.
So all of the Campground owners out there. If you want a business of a person over fifty five, fifty, you better be answering the phone. If you want business from a person under 40, you better be fingers fast on text messaging and you’ve taken care [00:37:00] of customers right there.
Shane Devenish: Without giving numbers. Darryle percentage wise, what do you figure your business is gonna go up after September?
Deryle Jensen: You, I actually don’t think it did. I see the prices, the wholesale sale price down.
I see an increase in the, I hate to bring it up again, but it’s negative equity, and there’s the what?
I have difficulty getting inventory when prices on the inventory is going down, when it was strong and going up. Oh my goodness gracious, that it was different. This a been closed and right now, yeah, I’m going to be busier, but I’m not gonna be busier by.[00:38:00]
Oh no. Now what do I do? So I, I know what the hope is. I know what the wish is. I know what the want is. That is to get hundreds or thousands of listings, but I don’t see coming around the corner because price.
Phil Ingrassia: Darryle. What about your buyer traffic? You have sellers obviously, that are going to the site.
What about those people looking to buy? Is that traffic up, down, or flat?
Deryle Jensen: It’s up, but it is up with the people that have the money that are saying, I think interest rates going up. I got cash. I think prices are gonna be down a little bit before Christmas. I think I’ll wait.
I’ll wait. Yeah, I really want, I made a decision. I’m gonna buy that, but I’m gonna wait 90 days. So they’re looking for bargains. Their cash buyers financing is getting less and less. Inspections are getting less and less. Nobody is [00:39:00] interested in insurance and nobody’s interested in extended warranties.
Brian Searl: And I think we’re seeing this to a certain extent too, mirrored in the transaction and sale of campgrounds in general. People were buying these up at an extremely high clip over the pandemic and the years before that. They’re still very interested in purchasing campgrounds. But there’s that waiting period now where the asking price of the Campground is still what somebody expected to get last year and what interest rates.
To different cap rates and all those kinds of things. The math doesn’t make sense. So they’re in that holding pattern too, looking for that deal.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, I think you found that in a bunch of different industries. Right now there’s the prices haven’t come back down to the customer expectations of where they’re at right now.
Deryle Jensen: On the deals that they’re 10 to $20,000 apart because I could get that seller that wanna be traded in RV, [00:40:00] likely more cash net. And that helped the dealer because that buyer could come back with no trade and cash situation. And gee whizz, if I happen to say, gee, because that you came from that dealer that.
I got a $5,000 kit here for you. Go back to that dealer and buy that unit you wanted for cash. I can make that, that, that difference work. There’s lots of deals. I know there’s lots of deals that on the dealer side where they’re 10 or $20,000 and the buyer ain’t going up and the seller, the dealer ain’t going down because they can’t come to RV Wheeler.
I can guarantee that. That trade in a buyer guaranteed. And the other byline that I use is we can guarantee them up to 50% more cash than the dealer. And we’ve got hundreds of examples of that. And I’m not putting down the dealers, guys, I’m just bragging [00:41:00] about my business model. That’s all I’m doing is bragging about my business park. So.
Brian Searl: MC Fireside Chats, sponsored by Daryl an RV, but also we should remember, they’re actually for real sponsored by Access Parks. And I should mention them because we’re really grateful that they’re sponsoring the fourth week episode of the RV Industry Show. If you’re in the market for wifi at a Campground access Parks is one of the premier provider of wifi for national parks.
Check them out. That was my little segue. I had to force that in there. So thanks for reminding me, Daryl. I appreciate that. But.
Deryle Jensen: You’re welcome. This little entrepreneur has to get in his work whenever he can.
Brian Searl: There’s nothing wrong with that, sir. Nothing wrong with that. Again, I’m glad that companies like yours exist because there’s a function, as we’ve discussed, long over the show for both sides of those things, and they, and everybody helps.
Everybody in the whole ecosystem works together. What else we gotta talk about? Jeremy, any other cool data that we should be paying attention to that maybe got under the radar or [00:42:00] unnoticed?
Jeremy Greene: Oh man. We, I feel like we got something, constantly. We just did a path to purchase research study, what was it, Phil?
Maybe it was earlier this year. They all blend together for me. But it looked at just, how folks, how first time buyers purchase. Then how repeat buyers purchase and the differences between the two and maybe where some folks like drop off and why? And it was all designed to, to really help the industry deliver the right messages at the right time to those buyers.
But what we found is, attachment to brand is critical for taking somebody from a first time to a repeat. And and so that’s something we’re keying on as an industry and you’re seeing a lot from the manufacturers that you’re seeing more brand development from the RV industry in that space.
Yeah that’s certainly one thing that that we’ve delivered recently.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. And there’s a lot of different segments of buyers. And it, the study talks about talking about buyers of where they’re at right now. When I first got in the business and. And this was before Jeremy and maybe even Shane, but we were very [00:43:00] pedantic about some of our terminology in the business.
When we were promoting it, we didn’t we didn’t like ’em being called campers. We didn’t like ’em being called popups and, van, campers or whatever. You had to be called type B. Motor homes, that’s not the terminology that, that people are using when they’re searching online.
And I think the study was, one of the things that came out to me was that the industry has to meet these folks where they are. And if they’re looking for van campers, call ’em van campers. If they’re, they may look for type B motor homes if they’re. Really into it.
But you know that, that’s the kind of thing I think that the study was trying to get across to the industry as well, is to meet the consumer where they are. And, in the cal case of B Van people the van campers or the Van Life folks, they don’t even, some of ’em don’t even consider themselves.
RVers at all. They’re doing something different. That’s okay. You can call it what you want, but just, [00:44:00] buy a motor home. So I thought that was a pretty big takeaway from the
study.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. The other thing I’ll mention Brian, too that we’ve seen recently, and, it’s probably no surprise to this group here is the folks that are looking to work from the road and the opportunities that, that RVing really presents to, to that, segment.
There’s been a massive shift in, in how many people, expect to be able to do that. And then we showed in our latest survey of leisure travelers that’s coming out that 19% of the respondents have worked from an RV in the last 24 months, and that th almost 30% are considering doing it in the next year.
That’s another trend that, that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. More RVs are being, developed that have, office space, or the capabilities, there’s a lot more that’s going into, being able to boondock or, get out into nature and still be able to stay connected so that you could still, work from the road or, send off that email or, what have you.
That’s definitely a trend that the industry, is addressing. And [00:45:00] something that, really brings a potential new customer to us.
Phil Ingrassia: Right? Look at the implications for the campgrounds. If they have weak or spotty wifi service, those people are gonna pack up and go somewhere that does.
Brian Searl: Yep. So they need access parks or sponsor. Go ahead, Phil.
Phil Ingrassia: That’s exactly right. And that’s why those companies are so critical. That’s amazing when you think about it. That, two out of 10 campers who are at a, might be at a resort, are actually working from their RV. That’s that’s, something that is amazing when you, when it comes right down to it and and gets the younger people are out there doing it too. So.
Brian Searl: Do we have any data on what and this is just me playing devil’s advocate, right? Do we have any data on what working from your RV means? Does that mean checking your emails, sitting at a desk with a laptop for a couple hours?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, I think it could be any and the above. We ask that question.
So I, the way we ask it is typically, do you sit down and work? Not, do not, are you enjoying time with family and you’re on your phone and you check an email? I think folks look [00:46:00] at it more as actually spending significant amount of time working, while they’re in their RV.
Deryle Jensen: On, on, on the, I get out 30, 5% of the, if it’s able to have a, if it’s equipped, so managed,
they’re a debt, they’re a where I can work and I asked them like, you work for your RV. Yep. And it’s, it is amazing. All the way from CEOs, man all the way down to, operator. It’s amazing. Say I run a travel company. I’ve got x number of tens of thousands of dollars worth of commissions I earn every year on selling trips, RV or vacation trips.
It’s, it is, it was surprising to me, I work out my RV because I’m in the RV business. I happen to have a 53 [00:47:00] footer. Is how big? 53 feet. 53. So that all of you want to come and talk to me because you’ve gotta know how big is that? Is that legal? Oh my goodness. Do you need a CDL? All of those questions.
I got ’em branded by the time they’re done visiting with me about RD Wheeler. So all of us, a lot of us work in it, some out of necessity and others out of convenience because we can’t others just because we.
Brian Searl: Shane, before we leave, what’s new in Canada? You’ve been alive out there.
Shane Devenish: Well, we just did our statement or shipment stats the other day. And like Phil said, things aren’t that rosy. But I will like to say r v a does tremendous job doing the stats. And we use as a guidance, a lot of what they put out we’re proud of what we can do up here.
And we’re just in the midst of the final throws of getting our economic study out. We use we usually do it every [00:48:00] three three or so years. We haven’t done one before Covid. It should be right in the next 30 days or so, and I think we’re all interested to see how many new RVs are out in the road up here.
Not doing it every year. So this’ll be, a pretty good update and we’re. We’re optimistic that the numbers will be, will show pretty good. We use this economic study when we do our advocacy work up here and it’s important for us not as extensive about the buyer, but it does provide a good economic footprint for us,
Brian Searl: so when we all get back here for the RV Industry Show in four weeks, you’re gonna have that data for us Promise, right?
Shane Devenish: I, we’re hopeful anyway. We’re trying to get some stats from the campgrounds, but they’re right in the middle of the season and they’ve been slow coming. We’re fingers crossed Brian.
Brian Searl: If not, we can just randomly speculate and make up something.
Shane Devenish: Yeah, just 90% of Canadians own RVs.
Brian Searl: I did hear that. I heard that Shane.
Okay. Anything else, [00:49:00] any final closing thoughts? Seriously, Jeremy, if you wanna consider it, like we’d love to have you or somebody from RVAA. I feel like that’s a very important piece that we’re missing here. We have RVDA of America, RVDA of Canada, CRVA. We have the RV Women’s Alliance on here.
Should get Kurt from the RVTI too. But.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, I’m sure he’d love it. I enjoyed being here with y’all at anytime. I’m down for it. Alright, if it’s not windy, there’s literally 50 mile an hour winds. Do you guys see this behind me?
Shane Devenish: We do.
Brian Searl: And then literally five minutes when the show ends, it’ll be clear though.
But yeah, for sure, I’ll have my team reach out to you, Jeremy, if it’s something you’re interested in because we’re valuable, those studies. I’d love to, to dive into more and all that kind of stuff. Any final thoughts before we go so I can just not talk while the wind’s blowing in my mic?
Thanks, B, all of you appreciate it.
Phil Ingrassia: Nice.
Jeremy Greene: Nice. You too Deryle!
Shane Devenish: Yeah. Yeah. Nice to meet you Darryle. Best of luck in your business.
Deryle Jensen: Please don’t take me as indifferent. I just have a different niche than what you guys have. Same product.
Brian Searl: Alright, see if we can do this. [00:50:00] Alright, can we do this? All right. Thank you guys. I appreciate it for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside, Chats RV industry focused episode.
I really appreciate you being here. Again, Phil, Shane Jeremy from RVIA, giving us some clarity on that. Love to invite you more. Of course, Deryle with RV Wheelator?.
Really appreciate you and we’d love for you to stay on top of it and keep us of the loop on your business as well. So thank you. And then Shane, of course. Did I say Shane? I feel like you did.
Shane Devenish: Yep.
Brian Searl: Okay, cool. Alright, thank you guys. I appreciate it. We’ll see you next week. Take care.
Shane Devenish: Thanks a lot. Bye.
[00:51:00]
[00:00:00]
Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode [00:01:00] of MC Fireside Chats. My name’s Brian SRO with Insider Perks. Super excited to be here for our fourth week episode focusing on the RV industry. I keep saying like it’s a hybrid between RV industry and outdoor recreation, but I feel like we need someone on here.
To talk about talk outdoor recreation. So primarily focused on the RV industry today. But super excited to have recurring guests here. Phil Ingrassia from the RV, d a as well as Shane Devish from CRVA. We’re missing a couple of regular guests, some super important things going on, and I think August is vacation time for most people.
Looking forward to seeing what insights we have. And then we have a couple special guests here. Lemme check my notes ’cause I was late here running. But we have Jeremy Green, senior Director of Events and marketing at R V I A, obviously another industry. Heavyweight that is certainly very critical to the success of the industry.
And then Darryle Jensen, who’s the president of RV Wheel Leader he’s gonna discuss his services and business and things like that. Gentlemen, where do we wanna start today? Is there anything that’s critical that came across our desk in the last month or so that we want to talk about as far as the RV industry goes?
Besides my horrible washed out background?[00:02:00]
Deryle Jensen: I’d first or the.
It’s not wheeltor, it’s Wheelator, RV Wheelator.
Brian Searl: Okay. You can fire me. That’s okay. I don’t,
Deryle Jensen: Okay.
Brian Searl: You know I’ll just go away. I can turn off my camera and we’ll just let go of the entire show entire.
Shane Devenish: I don’t think we want the host to go away. We’re glad you got your microphone now.
Brian Searl: If you’ve ever watched a show, everyone wants me to go away.
But yeah, go ahead. D Darryle, you spoke up, so I pronounced your company name wrong, but tell us what Wheeler. Is it? Wheeler?
Deryle Jensen: Wheelator! It’s a play on the mispronunciation
Brian Searl: Wheelator I got it alright. Wheelator.
Deryle Jensen: Realtor, Wheelator
Brian Searl: Got it. Won’t happen again.
Deryle Jensen: That the word realtor doesn’t have an A in it. It’s realtor to, but nobody pronounces real to, they all say realtor.
So I trademarked the word Wheelator. And for the past 10 [00:03:00] years, we’ve successfully listed and sold recreational vehicles like real estate agents, list and sell homes in the lower 48 states. Haven’t got to Hawaii yet, and haven’t got to Alaska yet, but we will.
Brian Searl: Tell me about what made you get into the business?
It’s obviously been a long time, you’ve been successful, steady, but what made you get into it in the first place?
Deryle Jensen: Well some family friends of ours came to us with asking me to help them sell their RV. They were super senior citizens and they were done. They couldn’t travel anymore, and I selfishly didn’t help them.
And I have an automotive background. I know the industry and they went to the dealer. They had bought it from, Unfortunately they got paid about $50,000 less than wholesale. Ouch. And I went to see him and I said, gee, whizz, it could have [00:04:00] been fair. And the young man beat on his chest and told me that was his job.
So I told him that I developed a business model that would kick his ass, and I have. We only retail, retail business model in the RV.
Brian Searl: I just need to check with our moderator. One second. Shane, are we allowed to say Ass?
Shane Devenish: I, yeah. I think you’re, I think you’re okay with that
Deryle Jensen: Okay. I apologize. I didn’t mean to be too farce.
So anyway we have a retail to retail business model. We can do things that no one else can do. Like we can guarantee a private seller up to 50% more cash than the dealer. We can guarantee that same seller, a buyer. And just like real estate, we pay for all the advertising. So our service is no cost to the private seller, the fsbo, the buyer, pays a small commission.
It’s included in the advertised price. [00:05:00] And just tell you folks just how darn good my business is. One bad review in a decade. Like in 10 years, one. So there I am in a nutshell, guys, entrepreneur, working outta my home help and guess what? My job is introducing nice people to other nice people. That’s my job.
Brian Searl: So here’s how, here’s, and certainly there’s a larger picture for a debate. Nobody’s saying that you are saying that one person is better than the other. But nobody’s saying that as a overall blanket statement in the same way that I think there’s a place for, just like when you’re selling cars, right?
There’s a place for private people in private listings and certain segments,
Deryle Jensen: Right.
Brian Searl: Certainly a benefit to taking that to a dealership to. So how do you. How expand on your statement, right? ’cause it’s a pretty bold statement, right?
Deryle Jensen: Yes.
Brian Searl: So why do you feel that you are without, and we just certainly don’t wanna insult anybody.
In your opinion, why do you feel like your [00:06:00] services are different than the dealer?
Deryle Jensen: Pricing we have a fair pricing policy and our pricing, sorry.
Brian Searl: Your mic is a little bit staticky. I don’t know if you can fix that, if it’s a, if it’s on your end.
Deryle Jensen: I dunno how.
Brian Searl: But okay, so we, we have pricing, right?
And that’s fair to a certain extent. I don’t think that’s certainly a slight on a dealership. Much if you were to take a car in the private market, and resell in a newspaper or something like that, there’s a chance that you would get a little bit more for that. Is that something we can stipulate Phil?
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. Look private sales are just part of the vehicle business, right?
Brian Searl: For sure. Yeah.
Phil Ingrassia: Whether it’s boats, cars, trucks, farm equipment, or motor homes and travel trailers. Now, obviously there’s a place for every, everybody in the market. One of the things that.
Dealers do, and of course I work for the dealer, so I advocate for them is that not all used [00:07:00] RVs are created equal. Some that have been sitting around for a while need a heck of a lot of work before they’re saleable. Dealers invest quite a bit in reconditioning these units. The other thing is that not all RVs are suitable for resale by the dealer as well.
Dealers by and large stay away from, units that are 15 or 20 years old. That’s not to say that those units don’t have another life ahead of them somewhere, but dealers may, for whatever reason, not want to take those in on trade. Platforms like what Darryl’s using are very valuable.
And of course that can be a gateway drug, for, that lower priced RV or that first RV that people are buying because they are price conscious, especially for younger buyers, perhaps, or people that don’t have the means they can get in the lifestyle and then move on up.
It’s. If you have a scarcity mentality and think you only have to do it one way, that’s probably not gonna be all [00:08:00] that successful. There’s really a, it just depends on what the people need. Typically through a dealer that unit will be checked out and things like that before sale.
And that’s the value add, if you will, that, that dealers can provide. Making sure that unit is road ready and all set to go for folks who may not be tinkerers or know how to do it or wanna pay for an inspection.
Brian Searl: And that’s why I tossed it back to you, right?
Because I obviously there, there is, as you said, a benefit to both sides of it. And I wanna make sure we’re not attacking one or the other because they both work hand in hand, right? It’s the same thing as like a harvest host and a private Campground owner and a national park and Right. They all exist.
They all help funnel each business to each other. And like you said, again, dealerships is not my strong suit coming from the Campground side as much as that is, but I think that. There’s very much value in explaining kind of that side of the story where if I was a dealer, and again, not knowing anything about a dealer, but I would want to take in units where I know that the customers coming through my door are [00:09:00] gonna be shopping for more so than maybe the older model who, again, like you said, certainly has a life, but there is somebody out there who will buy that and pay a premium for it.
And that’s where Daryl comes in.
Phil Ingrassia: Or if people, if people have really, kind of cream pups and. And don’t need the dealer and consult through there. That’s to each his own. Nobody’s gonna, nobody on the dealer side is gonna say, private, demonize private sales.
It goes on all the time. Not that naive.
Brian Searl: No, and again, like we’ve just said, there’s a place for both. Would you agree there’s a place for both Deryle?
Deryle Jensen: Absolutely.
Brian Searl: Cool. All right. It just felt, it was like, it might’ve been getting a little too harsh there, so I just wanted to break that apart for a second and make sure,
Phil Ingrassia: Hey, Deryle, I have a question for you,
Deryle Jensen: yes?
Phil Ingrassia: One of the things that we’ve seen over the last obviously two and a half years is just this explosion in new units. Are you seeing some of these pandemic buyers use your platform because they’re gonna just leave the lifestyle?
Deryle Jensen: Yes there, there is abundance of Covid purchaser of RVs [00:10:00] that are looking for a way, step out it because it’s more than they expect. They it on the, with their eight away. So all kind, but gee, I gotta keep it insured even when I’m not doing it. And yeah, that an abundance prices are going down and
The abundance of inventory is in a rush situation, instead of being patient situation they’re in a, because payments never are coming due, they can’t handle it. So RV luxury item first to go.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. Jeremy, one of the things that Go RV did was some research on that pandemic buyer. And we knew we weren’t gonna have, we weren’t gonna be able to retain all those buyers. Everybody understood that once, the countries o both countries, us and Canada opened up, [00:11:00] it was gonna be very difficult to retain everybody.
But some of that research did show that we are holding onto a bunch of these folks,
Jeremy Greene: yeah and the research that we’ve done the net promoter score that we’re seeing coming back from new buyers is even higher than our traditional buyers. And so yeah, the Covid pandemic definitely lifted the entire market up and we knew we’d lose some people back on, out on the back end.
I think we were actually a little surprised at. The positive sentiment that we got from the new buyers, the overwhelming positive sentiment that we got. The, we’ve seen the average the median age decrease from, pre pandemic. It was 53 to, last year when we surveyed new buyers in 2022 is down to a median age of 32.
We’ve seen the diversity of our buyer more closely reflect the general American consumer. And we’ve done a lot with Go RVing and that, that national media campaign to really reach out to growth audiences. And bring in and lift the entire market. And, and seeing some folks that [00:12:00] bought it just for Covid, there was certainly a small sample of those folks that may be had looked to, to exit the market.
But overall it’s been a net positive boost for the industry.
Phil Ingrassia: Right? The kind of the installed base of RVs has really gone up. Through the pandemic as we pumped about a million and a half units into the North American bloodstream in a very short period, a record period of time for the industry.
So if we keep 60% and lose 40% there’s gonna be There’s gonna be a more used units available, that’s for sure. But if the industry works to keep those people in and provide them the Campground opportunities that they need, that’s gonna be important. So we’re.
We’re gonna be on a higher installed base moving forward for repeat buyers, but at the same time, I think everybody understands there’s gonna be more used units in the market than would normally be there because of that Covid buyer, [00:13:00] don’t you think? Shane?
Shane Devenish: Yeah. And like it that 40% figure that you say Phil.
Somebody, they’re not just gonna walk away from those units, people not wanting to, continue. They’re gonna sell it to somebody else. So the, this the number of units are still gonna be relatively the same. You’re just gonna have some maybe not being used for a while until they can find a new buyer,
Jeremy Greene: yeah there’s been just an overall shift, I think and what folks find valuable to their time. And the way they share that with friends and family and the outdoors is not going away. We saw that shift with the pandemic and, folks are going to stay in the outdoors and, RV provides ’em a great opportunity to access all the things they enjoy about the outdoors, just in an elevated way.
I think the industry is just really well positioned for the future. We all know we’re, we’ve got a challenging time right now with some of the macroeconomic factors, facing us. But in general, we’re, I think we’re positioned very strong as a, in the travel sector.
Brian Searl: I’m curious here, because we speculated on this show [00:14:00] before from a dealer perspective, from A C R V A and C R V C perspective with Shane from other guests and obviously me, maybe a little bit from the Campground side. But Jeremy, we never ask you the question and maybe you should just be a regular guest, Jeremy, if you want, but Because I think your per perspective is important once a month.
But I think in your mind as we talk about these, and sorry for the wind if it’s in the background, but in your mind as we talk about these covid buyers, exiting, some of them exiting the RV space, is there any research or data you can point to as to why overall they might be doing this? Is it a lack of campsites?
Is it the economy? Is it something else?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. The research that we did that looked into, new buyers and we ran this research in 20 20, 21 and 22, and that’s where we saw that median age drop. We saw diversity, rise. What we saw is that buyers were of RVs were buying for the same reason they always did.
I think the data that we have shows that the majority of those buyers were the same kind of buyers. Just that COVID. Push them to purchase, maybe a little bit sooner than they would’ve because it was a great opportunity to get in and then spend the time, in the way that they could control, their environment during that time.
Phil Ingrassia: So lot traffic was at, during the pandemic was over 50% and in some cases, 70% first time buyers go. RV shifted into educational. Because, and so did some of the manufacturers and dealers, the number of videos put up or by the suppliers, [00:16:00] manufacturers, dealers on how to use the units over the last, I don’t know, two and a half years has just exploded.
And and so we were in an education mode versus a promotion mode. And now with the business softening. We’re shifting gears again and going into promotion mode as we try to, move some of the, move some of the inventory off off dealer lots. And that’s that that’s what we’re all about over the next, six to eight months.
Jeremy Greene: And just to jump in there, Phil, that shift to education for the industry, I think was spot on. We’re actually about to come out with some research into aftermarket parts and accessories for the industry. We actually show the new buyers are more, are saying they were more well prepared for RV-ing than our traditional buyers.
So that shift to education I think was critical at the moment when the industry decided to make that move.
Brian Searl: That’s actually really interesting. Because is it a, I think I’ve known it ’cause I’ve been in it for so [00:17:00] long versus I’m new and I’ve researched it. And maybe more because when you’re coming into the industry, now you have the internet and you have maybe AI or even didn’t have AI back then, but Right.
You have multiple different paths to learn quicker than you would with just going to a dealer.
Deryle Jensen: I don’t,
Jeremy Greene: Go ahead.
Deryle Jensen: I don’t want to be a naysayer guys, but my situation. The rubber meat I’m dealing with.
Brian Searl: You still breaking up just a little bit. Darryl, I dunno if you can sit forward maybe it’s just Sounds like your mic is breaking up.
Deryle Jensen: Yeah. I’m dealing with a larger percentage of sellers that are in an
upside down situation than I ever did before. It the, because of lack of,
or their choices. I’m finding that many of them are in a negative equity situation far more than ever before, and that’s what I’m doing.[00:18:00]
Shane Devenish: What do you think what’s the percentage of your business in the last couple years versus before Covid.
Deryle Jensen: 25 to 40.
Shane Devenish: 40% up?
Deryle Jensen: Yeah. They’re No 40, 40% of them are upside down.
Shane Devenish: Oh, 40%…
Deryle Jensen: It was like 25% of ’em were upside down. Now it’s 40% of them. Everyone know when I’m talking to ’em, I say, wish, do you owe some money? And it goes dinging, ding. Might it? It’s
difficult. And so the only way that they’re gonna get out of it is go back to a dealer to refinance another unit and then again, being negative or find the amount that they’re short. And get rid of…
Brian Searl: Am I hearing this is mostly economic then? Either you’re underwater and your loan ’cause of the economy, or maybe like Jeremy said, you purchased too early because of Covid or, and you just weren’t ready for it.
But it seems like.
Deryle Jensen: In my business, [00:19:00] yes. That’s what I’m finding.
Brian Searl: So it’s not an unhappiness with the RVs, which we didn’t think it.
Deryle Jensen: It is that family that bought their first travel trailer with their three kids that are under the age of 10 have had their food stuff go up quite a bit and
their transportation costs go up quite a bit. The RV’s luxury item, they gotta get out of it.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. And dealers are dealing with this too, on trades as well.
You know what happens here? And for people who don’t understand what negative equity is, here’s what it is. Okay? You bought your, let’s just say you bought your RV at $25,000 new. You financed it over time. And then say you took a eight to 10 year loan out on it. So two years later you want to you wanna trade that thing in, [00:20:00] you pay you, you’ve got a 25.
A thousand dollars loan on it, but the RV’s only worth 17 five. So you’re, you still owe more money than it is actually book value worth. That’s negative equity. And the last time this happened was during the downturn of 2008, 2009 where interest rates and the market all kind of conspired to lower those values of those units.
Beyond what people had paid for, had financed them at so negative equity can rear its head in a private sale or at a trade in at the dealer. Yep. And and Darryl’s, right? One way is to basically go refinance your home. You go into the dealer, but you have to get another loan.
So then you put the negative equity on top of the other part of the financing, and it’s one payment. But, hopefully you don’t do it. You don’t get underwater again. But [00:21:00] certainly it is an issue. Right now, like it was about, 15 years ago 2008, 2009 time period, and we.
Brian Searl: But is the refinance option is available as it is today?
I feel like it’s not given that interest rates are up right?
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, it’s, it becomes even harder in a higher interest rate environment. That’s the way it is. If, people make a conscious decision, are they gonna put, how do you lower your interest rate, your, or your your monthly payment, the payment buyer?
How do they do it? There’s two ways you put more down or. You extend the period of the loan. So the further you extend the loan, the more aptt you are to be underwater or have negative equity when it comes time to trade. And some of the major banks are pretty on the record. They want a significant down payment, and they also are, they don’t like these 15, 20 year loans, which are really, which really [00:22:00] can be more apt to put the buyer in a negative equity situation.
However, that’s not to say, nobody’s the cops. People can do what they wanna do, right? So if you’re buying a $250,000 motor home and you want to take a 20 year loan out on it, almost like a mortgage, that’s your right to do that. If you can find the financing. But d Darryl’s, right? It’s a, it’s definitely a growing issue right now.
And higher interest rates just exacerbate the situation.
Deryle Jensen: Yeah.
Brian Searl: So what happens if you can’t sell? And I don’t mean a single person, right? But in large numbers, if we get more of these people and there’s a glut of inventory on dealerships and there’s a glut of inventory in the private market, as there already is, but if this continues to exacerbate and scale and go uphill, at what point do we really run into a serious issue?
If we have.
Phil Ingrassia: We did run into, you just have to go back to 2008, 2009. That was a serious issue. And [00:23:00] then you.
Brian Searl: Did you feel like, and I’m sorry I didn’t interrupt. Did you feel like it’s gonna be worse this time because of the amount of inventory that was injected right before it?
Phil Ingrassia: No, not at all.
Somebody asked me that today. I had a business writer asked me that today and that, what’s the difference? We’re not in a recession. Yet they keep saying what’s coming, but there, there isn’t a recession and credit availability is still good. We’re not, we don’t see the situation where credit availability had dried up where lenders were leaving the industry for whatever reason.
Jeremy Greene: And there’s some we’ll get, there’s some churn too that needs to happen right at retail. But retail’s, it seems like it’s outpacing wholesale. Would you say Phil towards.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, absolutely. It’s retail. Retail is down 25%, wholesale’s down almost 50% through the first half of the year in North America.
So it’s a little different in Canada, but it’s, that’s roughly where it is. And it. [00:24:00] It’s definitely a crunch right now. It’s definitely a crunch right now. But we do anticipate things are getting better and I know R Vi’s forecast is for a better 2024, correct?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. I mean we’re, 2023 we’re projecting just under 300,000 units wholesale shipments. And then in 2024 that number rises to about 350,000. We’re projecting sometime after the first of the year really to start to see a little bit of a turn there.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. To stay on a negative equity situation, a good rule of thumb for consumers is to put as much down as you can.
And keep your loan payment is within a short period of shorter period of time, and you’re much, much less likely to get stuck in a negative equity. Sometimes first time buyers don’t understand that. And if you’re keeping your unit for eight years, it doesn’t matter. Negative equity doesn’t come into play.
It’s only those people who bought. [00:25:00] And then want to get rid of it right away or within a shorter period of time. That, that can run into that Most of the time. Not always, but most of the time.
Shane Devenish: Yeah. And that, and that applies to, any asset that you drive around a car.
Same thing as a car. RVs are no different. Depreciation is higher the first couple years. And and the shorter you keep the unit. I guess the more you’re gonna be a little bit, o offside, but the longer you keep it, the less of an issue that is.
Brian Searl: And just from an ignorance perspective on loans you’re talking about because you paid more finance back in the front.
Than you do in the end, or.
Shane Devenish: No, you just, yeah, you pay more. I guess two things. The depreciation slows down. The depreciation is higher in the first couple years. Then then longer periods and also you’re start gonna pay back more principle in the in the latter part,
Phil Ingrassia: Shane’s a former banker, did I explain negative equity correctly.
Brian Searl: That’s why I asked we know how smart he [00:26:00] is.
Shane Devenish: Hey, hey I have a former breaker that tells you how smart I am.
I’m in the association business now, so.
Brian Searl: Let’s toss it to Jeremy for a second, because Jeremy, I wanna give you a chance to just talk about R B I in general. I don’t, I feel like we haven’t had an R B I person on here for a whatever reason. So I apologize for that, but like in general, what has RV I been up to or we need to know?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, no, happy to be on for those that don’t know where the association that represents the majority of all the manufacturers and suppliers of RV products in North America. And so we represent manufacturers and the suppliers of the product that go inside those RVs.
We. We do a lot of things from federal and state advocacy to, we’re probably most well known for our self-regulation program where we have standards that are our members agreed to adhere to we address those standards through unannounced inspections every [00:27:00] six weeks in manufacturer plants.
And that’s where you see that, that seal on the side of new units that basically says that the manufacturer, has has agreed to meet those standards and the part of that inspection program. And that’s typically what campgrounds look for. To make sure that it’s meeting all the safety and life standards for entrance into parks and campgrounds.
Big part of the things that we do are advocacy standards. Phil mentioned the Go RVing campaign, and that’s a partnership that the RV Industry Association has with the RV Dealers Association. And it’s all about lifting the market through a national media campaign. As well as PR efforts as well.
That’s just a taste of some of the main programs that we have. Another big one is we address the service side through the RV Technical Institute. Also a partnership with the RV Dealers Association there. And that’s recruiting and training service techs to make sure that folks can get their RV serviced in an appropriate time and back out Camping.
Just a few of the things that we do.
Brian Searl: How do you feel? That the RV industry, and I’ve asked, I think this to Bill, [00:28:00] we’ve talked about this before and the same thing with the RV ti who we’ve had on here before. And I apologize again for the wind. I’m just outside. I can’t literally move. But how do you feel like we can best address this?
Is there a service issue? First of all, I feel like there is. And then how can we best address it with the industry to make sure.
Jeremy Greene: What kind issue? I’m sorry, you broke up a little bit there.
Brian Searl: Is there a service issue in the industry? I think there is, based on who we’ve talked to. But then, and obviously it’s case by case, dealer by dealer, right?
But then how do we best tackle that so that the consumer continues to have a high opinion of the RV industry as a whole?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. Know we like to look at it as a complete holistic approach from, the product to the experience you get, in, in buying that product to.
Campgrounds availability and the infrastructure that folks are searching for. Then obviously service is a big, component to that as well. What I can tell you is that the RV Technical Institute, they’ve been around now, I don’t know, four or five years. We’ve brought over 14,000 techs, trained over 14,000 techs, since that time.[00:29:00]
Last year we recruited over 1200 new techs into the industry. It’s a, an issue that’s being addressed. Certainly, having a standard program of training is critical. And pushing, the service technicians through a career ladder, a career path. And the Army Technical Institute is develop that.
We work with dealers, we work with suppliers, we work with manufacturers. We even work with some consumers on training we’re really looking at it holistically to try and get more people into, everybody’s competing for techs right now, it’s a real challenge.
And we’re no different there. But we’ve invested as an industry over $10 million into, this challenge. And by bringing in 14,000 in the past, five years and training ’em we’re definitely making a dent there.
Brian Searl: For sure yeah. Nobody was ever questioning your attempt, so I apologize if it came across that way oh no. Working really hard toward it. I just think it’s important to continue reminding the people at the Campground owners who watch the people, the consumers who might be watching the show, right?
That there’s definitely progress being [00:30:00] made. There’s thousands of these new techs coming in we’re getting better. We know, it’s. It’s always in to a certain extent going to be an issue, but it’s a less of an issue every day that we move forward because.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. And one of the partnerships that we’re definitely interested and have been keying in on, is with campgrounds training campgrounds and folks there on the RV Technical Institute curriculum.
Oftentimes if there’s issues that folks might have, they might be in a Campground and experiencing that issue. Having somebody that’s that’s equipped with the knowledge and is right there and able to get somebody, to have that good service experience at the Campground is part of that measure.
Brian Searl: So let’s pivot a second to the, because I think the studies that you do in the data that you put out is very critical to industry overall, like dealer manufacturers.
How do you feel like the data that you’re providing is being used in a way to improve really all aspects of the [00:31:00] industry. We know it’s important, but what I’m asking is the nitty gritty of the, how does this study help this person? How does that make sense?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. I can take a piece of that ’cause we do a lot of different studies and data.
One of the more recent ones that we did was the demographic report on the RV consumer. And just from, working with the Go RVing program, we looked that, that broke down the RV consumer into seven different types. And we used that data to, to better develop the right authentic relationships with those type of customers.
We’re promoting the right, products, the right, lifestyle choices to the right audiences. So it’s helpful for us as a program to lift the industry and deliver new customers. But it’s also extremely helpful for dealers on the local level to target the right people in their back backyard, except for manufacturer and brands to make sure that they’re connecting to the right audiences in authentic way.
That’s just one piece. On the Campground side, we did [00:32:00] a large Campground study where, we looked at both the public and private side, and I know that there’s this, saying that there’s not enough campgrounds out there. And we found there’s actually, we a lot of campgrounds out there.
There’s, thousands and thousands of campgrounds. It’s very fragmented and difficult to find campgrounds for sure, for the user, and then on top of that, the infrastructure is a big challenge for. Especially on the public side. So we’re using that data on on our advocacy efforts to go into, state and federal.
Legislatures and conversations and try and advocate for increased infrastructure so that we’re able to improve the amenities that, campers are looking for. So the data that we have is used in a lot of different ways. Either by us as an association advocating on behalf of the industry.
Or by, different brands.
Brian Searl: I think it’s important to continue highlighting that, right? Because again, what we see, or at least what I see on a regular basis, is shipments are up, shipments are down, shipments are up, shipments are down. And that’s [00:33:00] really the headline number that we see more than anything else.
But there’s so much more to it, and that’s what I, that’s why I ask you the question.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, for sure. That is our bread and butter. That’s, what folks look to us for on, on that monthly basis, but, I would say at least quarterly we’ve got some piece of information.
We’ve actually got something coming out here within the next week around travel intentions. And we’re showing, heavily that, folks are looking to travel over, the Labor Day holiday 49% of all leisure travelers, which is represents 95 million folks. Plan to travel over Labor Day, but then we break that down into, RVs and 17% of them claim that they intend to have some type of RV experience over the course of those travels.
And that’s, that breaks down to 16.1 million US residents. I. Which is up from 12 million over the Memorial Day holiday. We use data like that and that’s just a short snippet, but we use data like that to, with the upcoming holiday to go out to media and share the story that is RVing and that folks are gravitating to it, [00:34:00] even in these, tough economic, cha, challenging times that we’re in right now.
Brian Searl: Is there a way, like if I’m in the shoes of a Campground and I’m running my business every day and I barely have time to look at my own website, Google Analytics and things like that, is there a way that I easily digest some of this information when I’m having conversations about my Campground but to.
My local media to my journalists, to people like that to spread this word or to analyze my it’s very hard to read that long report, right? If you’re a consumer or if you’re a camera owner and you have 40,000 things that you’re doing. So is there an easy way to adjust these bullet points for them or disseminate them easier?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, oftentimes we try and come up with different ways of pushing out, the data. Either we’ll have a full 200 page study that folks can dig in and read and sometimes we just try and hit the highlights. One of the things we try and do as an industry and, got our partners and Shane and Phil, here as well.
We try and work together from the manufacturer, supplier, Campground dealer side to make sure that we’re all speaking the same tune and sharing [00:35:00] resources, and those high points. And so oftentimes it comes down to just, a few talking points maybe that we can share out of the larger study.
All right. What else we got gentlemen?
Phil Ingrassia: One of the things, and I’d be interested in hearing from Deryle about this is, while sales have cooled off the interest and the use at campgrounds is incredibly high Jeremy said that RV i’s got a report coming out that it’s gonna be big Labor Day, KOA put their Campground forecast up.
The gore being web traffic is very high. There’s a lot of interest. It’s just because of whatever reason people are having a harder time pulling the trigger maybe on, on buying that new unit. Darryle, are you seeing increased traffic at your site?
Deryle Jensen: We’re seeing increased increase traffic, people planning to sell after Labor Day weekend.
That’s they. Now the last 10, the kids go to school, whatever, [00:36:00] or the eighth, September.
And one more time. And they are researching us to find out what we do and how we do it. And I expect a surge of business by the middle of that’s what I’m seeing. Also, in reference to your statistics, what I noticed is the younger people.
It’s younger and younger people that are getting involved in the RV. And then there’s the older and older ones that are maintaining their health. And it’s real simple for me to understand. The young ones will text and email all day long. The older ones, I gotta answer that phone, or they ain’t doing business.
So all of the Campground owners out there. If you want a business of a person over fifty five, fifty, you better be answering the phone. If you want business from a person under 40, you better be fingers fast on text messaging and you’ve taken care [00:37:00] of customers right there.
Shane Devenish: Without giving numbers. Darryle percentage wise, what do you figure your business is gonna go up after September?
Deryle Jensen: You, I actually don’t think it did. I see the prices, the wholesale sale price down.
I see an increase in the, I hate to bring it up again, but it’s negative equity, and there’s the what?
I have difficulty getting inventory when prices on the inventory is going down, when it was strong and going up. Oh my goodness gracious, that it was different. This a been closed and right now, yeah, I’m going to be busier, but I’m not gonna be busier by.[00:38:00]
Oh no. Now what do I do? So I, I know what the hope is. I know what the wish is. I know what the want is. That is to get hundreds or thousands of listings, but I don’t see coming around the corner because price.
Phil Ingrassia: Darryle. What about your buyer traffic? You have sellers obviously, that are going to the site.
What about those people looking to buy? Is that traffic up, down, or flat?
Deryle Jensen: It’s up, but it is up with the people that have the money that are saying, I think interest rates going up. I got cash. I think prices are gonna be down a little bit before Christmas. I think I’ll wait.
I’ll wait. Yeah, I really want, I made a decision. I’m gonna buy that, but I’m gonna wait 90 days. So they’re looking for bargains. Their cash buyers financing is getting less and less. Inspections are getting less and less. Nobody is [00:39:00] interested in insurance and nobody’s interested in extended warranties.
Brian Searl: And I think we’re seeing this to a certain extent too, mirrored in the transaction and sale of campgrounds in general. People were buying these up at an extremely high clip over the pandemic and the years before that. They’re still very interested in purchasing campgrounds. But there’s that waiting period now where the asking price of the Campground is still what somebody expected to get last year and what interest rates.
To different cap rates and all those kinds of things. The math doesn’t make sense. So they’re in that holding pattern too, looking for that deal.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, I think you found that in a bunch of different industries. Right now there’s the prices haven’t come back down to the customer expectations of where they’re at right now.
Deryle Jensen: On the deals that they’re 10 to $20,000 apart because I could get that seller that wanna be traded in RV, [00:40:00] likely more cash net. And that helped the dealer because that buyer could come back with no trade and cash situation. And gee whizz, if I happen to say, gee, because that you came from that dealer that.
I got a $5,000 kit here for you. Go back to that dealer and buy that unit you wanted for cash. I can make that, that, that difference work. There’s lots of deals. I know there’s lots of deals that on the dealer side where they’re 10 or $20,000 and the buyer ain’t going up and the seller, the dealer ain’t going down because they can’t come to RV Wheeler.
I can guarantee that. That trade in a buyer guaranteed. And the other byline that I use is we can guarantee them up to 50% more cash than the dealer. And we’ve got hundreds of examples of that. And I’m not putting down the dealers, guys, I’m just bragging [00:41:00] about my business model. That’s all I’m doing is bragging about my business park. So.
Brian Searl: MC Fireside Chats, sponsored by Daryl an RV, but also we should remember, they’re actually for real sponsored by Access Parks. And I should mention them because we’re really grateful that they’re sponsoring the fourth week episode of the RV Industry Show. If you’re in the market for wifi at a Campground access Parks is one of the premier provider of wifi for national parks.
Check them out. That was my little segue. I had to force that in there. So thanks for reminding me, Daryl. I appreciate that. But.
Deryle Jensen: You’re welcome. This little entrepreneur has to get in his work whenever he can.
Brian Searl: There’s nothing wrong with that, sir. Nothing wrong with that. Again, I’m glad that companies like yours exist because there’s a function, as we’ve discussed, long over the show for both sides of those things, and they, and everybody helps.
Everybody in the whole ecosystem works together. What else we gotta talk about? Jeremy, any other cool data that we should be paying attention to that maybe got under the radar or [00:42:00] unnoticed?
Jeremy Greene: Oh man. We, I feel like we got something, constantly. We just did a path to purchase research study, what was it, Phil?
Maybe it was earlier this year. They all blend together for me. But it looked at just, how folks, how first time buyers purchase. Then how repeat buyers purchase and the differences between the two and maybe where some folks like drop off and why? And it was all designed to, to really help the industry deliver the right messages at the right time to those buyers.
But what we found is, attachment to brand is critical for taking somebody from a first time to a repeat. And and so that’s something we’re keying on as an industry and you’re seeing a lot from the manufacturers that you’re seeing more brand development from the RV industry in that space.
Yeah that’s certainly one thing that that we’ve delivered recently.
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. And there’s a lot of different segments of buyers. And it, the study talks about talking about buyers of where they’re at right now. When I first got in the business and. And this was before Jeremy and maybe even Shane, but we were very [00:43:00] pedantic about some of our terminology in the business.
When we were promoting it, we didn’t we didn’t like ’em being called campers. We didn’t like ’em being called popups and, van, campers or whatever. You had to be called type B. Motor homes, that’s not the terminology that, that people are using when they’re searching online.
And I think the study was, one of the things that came out to me was that the industry has to meet these folks where they are. And if they’re looking for van campers, call ’em van campers. If they’re, they may look for type B motor homes if they’re. Really into it.
But you know that, that’s the kind of thing I think that the study was trying to get across to the industry as well, is to meet the consumer where they are. And, in the cal case of B Van people the van campers or the Van Life folks, they don’t even, some of ’em don’t even consider themselves.
RVers at all. They’re doing something different. That’s okay. You can call it what you want, but just, [00:44:00] buy a motor home. So I thought that was a pretty big takeaway from the
study.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah. The other thing I’ll mention Brian, too that we’ve seen recently, and, it’s probably no surprise to this group here is the folks that are looking to work from the road and the opportunities that, that RVing really presents to, to that, segment.
There’s been a massive shift in, in how many people, expect to be able to do that. And then we showed in our latest survey of leisure travelers that’s coming out that 19% of the respondents have worked from an RV in the last 24 months, and that th almost 30% are considering doing it in the next year.
That’s another trend that, that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. More RVs are being, developed that have, office space, or the capabilities, there’s a lot more that’s going into, being able to boondock or, get out into nature and still be able to stay connected so that you could still, work from the road or, send off that email or, what have you.
That’s definitely a trend that the industry, is addressing. And [00:45:00] something that, really brings a potential new customer to us.
Phil Ingrassia: Right? Look at the implications for the campgrounds. If they have weak or spotty wifi service, those people are gonna pack up and go somewhere that does.
Brian Searl: Yep. So they need access parks or sponsor. Go ahead, Phil.
Phil Ingrassia: That’s exactly right. And that’s why those companies are so critical. That’s amazing when you think about it. That, two out of 10 campers who are at a, might be at a resort, are actually working from their RV. That’s that’s, something that is amazing when you, when it comes right down to it and and gets the younger people are out there doing it too. So.
Brian Searl: Do we have any data on what and this is just me playing devil’s advocate, right? Do we have any data on what working from your RV means? Does that mean checking your emails, sitting at a desk with a laptop for a couple hours?
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, I think it could be any and the above. We ask that question.
So I, the way we ask it is typically, do you sit down and work? Not, do not, are you enjoying time with family and you’re on your phone and you check an email? I think folks look [00:46:00] at it more as actually spending significant amount of time working, while they’re in their RV.
Deryle Jensen: On, on, on the, I get out 30, 5% of the, if it’s able to have a, if it’s equipped, so managed,
they’re a debt, they’re a where I can work and I asked them like, you work for your RV. Yep. And it’s, it is amazing. All the way from CEOs, man all the way down to, operator. It’s amazing. Say I run a travel company. I’ve got x number of tens of thousands of dollars worth of commissions I earn every year on selling trips, RV or vacation trips.
It’s, it is, it was surprising to me, I work out my RV because I’m in the RV business. I happen to have a 53 [00:47:00] footer. Is how big? 53 feet. 53. So that all of you want to come and talk to me because you’ve gotta know how big is that? Is that legal? Oh my goodness. Do you need a CDL? All of those questions.
I got ’em branded by the time they’re done visiting with me about RD Wheeler. So all of us, a lot of us work in it, some out of necessity and others out of convenience because we can’t others just because we.
Brian Searl: Shane, before we leave, what’s new in Canada? You’ve been alive out there.
Shane Devenish: Well, we just did our statement or shipment stats the other day. And like Phil said, things aren’t that rosy. But I will like to say r v a does tremendous job doing the stats. And we use as a guidance, a lot of what they put out we’re proud of what we can do up here.
And we’re just in the midst of the final throws of getting our economic study out. We use we usually do it every [00:48:00] three three or so years. We haven’t done one before Covid. It should be right in the next 30 days or so, and I think we’re all interested to see how many new RVs are out in the road up here.
Not doing it every year. So this’ll be, a pretty good update and we’re. We’re optimistic that the numbers will be, will show pretty good. We use this economic study when we do our advocacy work up here and it’s important for us not as extensive about the buyer, but it does provide a good economic footprint for us,
Brian Searl: so when we all get back here for the RV Industry Show in four weeks, you’re gonna have that data for us Promise, right?
Shane Devenish: I, we’re hopeful anyway. We’re trying to get some stats from the campgrounds, but they’re right in the middle of the season and they’ve been slow coming. We’re fingers crossed Brian.
Brian Searl: If not, we can just randomly speculate and make up something.
Shane Devenish: Yeah, just 90% of Canadians own RVs.
Brian Searl: I did hear that. I heard that Shane.
Okay. Anything else, [00:49:00] any final closing thoughts? Seriously, Jeremy, if you wanna consider it, like we’d love to have you or somebody from RVAA. I feel like that’s a very important piece that we’re missing here. We have RVDA of America, RVDA of Canada, CRVA. We have the RV Women’s Alliance on here.
Should get Kurt from the RVTI too. But.
Jeremy Greene: Yeah, I’m sure he’d love it. I enjoyed being here with y’all at anytime. I’m down for it. Alright, if it’s not windy, there’s literally 50 mile an hour winds. Do you guys see this behind me?
Shane Devenish: We do.
Brian Searl: And then literally five minutes when the show ends, it’ll be clear though.
But yeah, for sure, I’ll have my team reach out to you, Jeremy, if it’s something you’re interested in because we’re valuable, those studies. I’d love to, to dive into more and all that kind of stuff. Any final thoughts before we go so I can just not talk while the wind’s blowing in my mic?
Thanks, B, all of you appreciate it.
Phil Ingrassia: Nice.
Jeremy Greene: Nice. You too Deryle!
Shane Devenish: Yeah. Yeah. Nice to meet you Darryle. Best of luck in your business.
Deryle Jensen: Please don’t take me as indifferent. I just have a different niche than what you guys have. Same product.
Brian Searl: Alright, see if we can do this. [00:50:00] Alright, can we do this? All right. Thank you guys. I appreciate it for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside, Chats RV industry focused episode.
I really appreciate you being here. Again, Phil, Shane Jeremy from RVIA, giving us some clarity on that. Love to invite you more. Of course, Deryle with RV Wheelator?.
Really appreciate you and we’d love for you to stay on top of it and keep us of the loop on your business as well. So thank you. And then Shane, of course. Did I say Shane? I feel like you did.
Shane Devenish: Yep.
Brian Searl: Okay, cool. Alright, thank you guys. I appreciate it. We’ll see you next week. Take care.
Shane Devenish: Thanks a lot. Bye.
[00:51:00]
Established in 2021, Modern Campground is a dedicated news source for the outdoor hospitality industry, catering to RV park owners, campground owners, glamping resort owners, their team members, industry suppliers, and others involved in the sector. Our original articles are authored by our team and recognized industry leaders. As a comprehensive resource, we aim to keep you informed on the latest trends and stories impacting your RV park, campground, or glamping business.
