MC Fireside Chats – June 3rd, 2026

[00:00:45] Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. I am Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground. Outside today because my computer crashed. There’s a woodpecker on the side of my house, there’s a street sweeper, all things are going on at the same time.

 But we’re gonna have a good show anyway because we got good guests. Excited to welcome back some of our recurring people, Scott Bahr from Cairn Consulting Group, we have Simon from Campmap, and we have two special guests here, Paul Bosley and Ed. I will let both of you guys introduce yourselves shortly.

 But excited to, we’re missing a couple RV people, they’re in DC lobbying for the industry, talking about some legislation, stuff like that. I think Scott Bahr was there for a day or two before he… obviously too important to stay for the whole thing. Got other things on his agenda already, 

[00:01:26] Scott Bahr: they don’t want me to be the public face of the, of any organization that’s what it’s really all about. They just sent me home, it’s hey, get out of here now, your usefulness is done, 

[00:01:37] Brian Searl: at least you were also the public face in like the room though. They didn’t even invite me to that, cause look at this face, would you want that to be the public face of anything? Or the private of anything, honestly?

 But welcome everybody, we’re gonna have a good show. It’s the first week of the month, we’re gonna talk about data all kinds of stuff that’s going on in the industry. Also explore a little bit about, Paul’s business and Ed’s business and what they’re seeing in the consulting world and finance world and stuff like that.

 Ed, he just walked out on us. Did you see that? We must have offended him, Scott. He just left.

[00:02:04] Ed O. Bridgman: I had a camp worker doing blowing right outside the door.

[00:02:09] Brian Searl: It’s a pattern now, the street sweeper made it down there. That’s pretty quick. Alright, let’s go around the room and introduce ourselves. Let’s start with our recurring guests. Scott, you want to start?

[00:02:17] Scott Bahr: Scott Bahr, Cairn Consulting Group market research and data analysis.

[00:02:23] Brian Searl: You make it sound so fascinating, Scott. You gotta keep a little mystery in the board there. Alright, Simon.

[00:02:30] Simon Neal: Hey, I’m Simon, the founder of Campmap. We help campgrounds and RV parks improve marketing and guest experience with premium digital and printable maps.

[00:02:39] Brian Searl: Sounds like you read that, Simon. That’s his elevator pitch, he’s got it down. It sounds good, like I’m not knocking it, but okay. Paul.

[00:02:49] Paul Bosley: Paul Bosley, founder of Business Finance Depot. I’ve been in the finance business for about 20 years and in the RV park industry for about 10. Started getting involved with the glamping show about five or six years ago. So we’ve been working very diligently to do, we tend to finance glamping projects all over the country.

[00:03:12] Brian Searl: As I understand it, Paul, and this, and you tell me if I’m wrong, as I understand it, there would be no glamping industry without you.

[00:03:19] Paul Bosley: I don’t know about that. I think it started long before me. My understanding it started in England actually, and it came here during COVID, is that correct?

[00:03:28] Brian Searl: I always say it only came here because of you. There was glamping in the African tents along the river, like I don’t know, 300 years ago, right? 

[00:03:36] Paul Bosley: I don’t think that’s the case at all, but it’s a nice thought.

[00:03:39] Brian Searl: if we say it enough times though, people will believe it. And Scott, I don’t know if you’re aware of this over the last few weeks on MC Fireside Chats, I’ve been reminding people that KOA got started because of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[00:03:53] Scott Bahr: Oh, that’s right. That’s right.

[00:03:55] Brian Searl: I don’t know if you were aware of that, but…

[00:03:56] Paul Bosley: I didn’t know that.

[00:03:58] Scott Bahr: Yeah.

[00:03:59] Brian Searl: It actually didn’t, it got started during the World’s Fair, but if we say it enough times on the show, then I think people will believe it.

[00:04:05] Paul Bosley: you had me believing you there.

[00:04:07] Scott Bahr: They started because of the World’s Fair. 

[00:04:11] Brian Searl: Maybe. Maybe. 

[00:04:13] Scott Bahr: Rumor has it, 

[00:04:14] Brian Searl: but rumour has it… Ed.

[00:04:18] Ed O. Bridgman: Hi everybody, my name is Ed Bridgman. My middle initial is O, I go by Ed O. Bridgman. I started a TV show here a while back and they introduced me as Ed O. Bridgman, and I said, no, I’m not Irish, it’s my middle initial.

 I’m the owner of the largest outdoor hospitality consulting company. If I say it often enough, people will start believing I’m the owner of the largest outdoor hospitality…

[00:04:46] Scott Bahr: Alright, do it.

[00:04:49] Ed O. Bridgman: I also own Homestead RV Community, the world’s most technologically advanced RV destination in the world. And I do a lot of effort to make certain that Homestead RV Community is the most technologically advanced. Last couple weeks ago, we just updated our fiber optic through every site to one gigabyte speeds.

 I’m testing cameras right now on two different systems right now side by side. I do a lot of beta testing at Homestead RV Community for the outdoor hospitality industry so that I can not only advise my clients how to spend their money, but I can show them how I spent my money.

[00:05:29] Brian Searl: Ed, you gotta catch up a little bit on the technology. The one gigabit thing I don’t know, you are in America, that’s fair. Canada up here, I have three gigs running to my house.

[00:05:39] Ed O. Bridgman: I have a dedicated fiber optic line running to every site for but we don’t have any demand for anything higher than one gigabyte.

[00:05:49] Brian Searl: Because I haven’t stayed with you yet. I need 15 gigabytes. I’ll come down there and change the picture. Alright, so what do we got?

 So normally we start off with this show, we ask our recurring guests, Scott and Simon, just is there anything that has come across your desk in the last month since we’ve been together on the show. I think maybe I missed the last month, so maybe two months, but just that has changed or you think we should be talking about from the industry perspective.

[00:06:15] Scott Bahr: Yeah, for me, the the biggest thing that’s come across really is the going to the RVs Move America week this week and just interacting and having a lot of real detailed conversations with people from the industry to see and see where that’s at. And see what everybody’s state of mind is at this point, as we enter into the summer season and where we’re heading.

 It’s I like the event because people talk about the industry. They’re not, actually not allowed to talk about their individual companies because of antitrust. You have a lot of competitors in the same rooms. And it’s all, very much at a higher level. It’s a little bit more serious and usually some real solid conversations. I have a lot of takeaways from it, 

[00:07:00] Brian Searl: what was the biggest secret that someone told you that you can’t repeat?

[00:07:05] Scott Bahr: that that Ed has the best consulting company in the world.

[00:07:10] Brian Searl: That’s not a secret. Not anymore. Alright, what did you learn? What did you have in the good conversations there?

[00:07:21] Scott Bahr: It was really it had a much more serious tone this year. A lot of a lot more questioning going on about, instead of, the industry tends to, and it isn’t just the RV industry it’s our industry overall, tends to talk a lot about the problems, problem identification. But not a lot of solutions are flying around out there. And I…

[00:07:45] Brian Searl: What kind of problems are you talking about, Scott?

[00:07:47] Scott Bahr: Oh, right now within the RV industry it’s slow. Sales are slow. And and they’re projected…

[00:07:53] Brian Searl: Really slow. Let’s clarify those numbers for people who haven’t heard them. What’s the latest numbers, Scott?

[00:07:57] Scott Bahr: the last month the shipments were down what, almost 18 percent year over year. Year to date, I think they’re down almost 10 percent.

[00:08:06] Brian Searl: And retail’s worse, right?

[00:08:08] Scott Bahr: And retail’s worse. Yeah, the so the market itself, the RV industry is slow right now. It’s slow. And according to the economists it’s projected to stay fairly slow. With some obvious, differences out there, certain types of RVs are selling better than others and so on.

 But overall as an industry, we’re, and it has to do with a lot of things that are going on right now. And there’s a very open acknowledgment of that. So yeah, that that’s the big, really the biggest takeaway that you know, and people started to talk about what do we do?

 For example, one of the problems I’ve, just in my work with in doing the camping and outdoor hospitality report is the decline in participation among Gen Z. Having attrition amongst a group that should be increasing. And that’s part of, that generalizes to all sectors of the industry, including the RV industry.

 So it’s now the next, part of the conversations are, what do we do? And it felt like there was a lot of openness to having those conversations that in the past were pretty general. Now people are interested in a lot more specifics. Consultants, Ed, there’s a lot of room for consultants in the industry right now, I feel like.

 People that just, being results oriented. I know that sounds cliché, but it’s really true. And that’s where things are at. A little bit more of an open dialogue it felt like.

[00:09:36] Brian Searl: let’s play this out for briefly for a second. I don’t want the whole show to take over the RV industry and the negative aspect of it, right? But let’s play this out for a second. Let’s say that for whatever reason there’s, I don’t know, economic headwinds, like maybe a war starts somewhere or something like that. Let’s just pretend, right?

 And the retail sales and shipments don’t go down for all of 2026 and maybe, I don’t know what happened to 2027. What does the RV industry do? Are there talks of plans or preparations or anything like that about how we adjust or is it still in the early stages?

[00:10:07] Scott Bahr: It’s still in the early stages and each brand, each organization has their own approach to, to, to things. The overall organization within RVIA, Go RVing is the marketing arm of the industry. And they’re doing a lot more trying to get, some promotions out there, talking more about the RV lifestyle and getting people to see them.

 They’re doing like some influencer tours this year going around all throughout the US to some different locations and have holding events and doing some on the ground stuff. So that, for the industry overall, that’s what’s happening. I wasn’t able to talk to a lot of individual brands about specifics that they’re working on, other than trying to resolve some of the issues, some of the barriers to entry right now in terms of RVing.

 Because it does impact camping, fewer RVers means fewer guests at the campgrounds. And it’s a big part of the outdoor economy.

[00:11:06] Ed O. Bridgman: I personally, I don’t pay that much attention to how many RVs were shipped out of Elkhart, Indiana. I pay a lot more attention to how many RVs were sold in the United States. That’s more important to me because they can over manufacture and then they can have a correction and sales can continue to be strong.

 I understand that sales have dipped some. I know for me personally, I’m waiting for interest rates to come back down before I make a big major purchase. I believe the war and the price of oil is having a significant impact on that. And I doubt if I’m the only person who’s waiting to make decent sized purchases. But Paul could probably speak to that better.

[00:11:55] Brian Searl: Paul got all the money. He’s flush with cash over there, what’s happening, Paul? How come you’re not lending more money to everybody, man? What’s going on?

[00:12:02] Paul Bosley: we’re busy. We’re at 189 million in approvals right now. So we’re, with about 160 people. And I’d say half of that’s in the RV or the glamping industry. So we’re very busy. We’re probably busier from the glamping industry than we are from the RV park industry. So that might echo in some of that what Scott’s saying.

[00:12:25] Brian Searl: Yeah, that makes sense. We are seeing like a strength, I don’t know if you would call it a strength, what you got, but definitely not a weakness in glamping like we are in the RV industry.

[00:12:35] Paul Bosley: I, one of the things, there was two things that woke me up about the glamping industry. One is Marriott has announced that they have started a glamping division of their company. So when you have the second biggest hotel chain in the world announcing that they’re going to get into the glamping industry that, that doesn’t wake you up, I don’t know what will.

 They obviously did a lot of market research and decided that glamping is definitely in the hotel space, which is something that I’ve come to conclusions with over the last, oh, I’d say a year or two years. At first I thought glamping was really just part of the RV industry until I really started to understand it more and it’s really a separate industry.

 And then the second thing that was a wake up call is we, our first 10 years we were in the franchise space. We do a lot of franchise financing. And then all of a sudden I’m at the glamping show last year and there’s the first franchise exhibiting. So the franchise industry is starting to come into glamping.

 So that’s a, another wake up call about this industry that’s really a new industry, but it’s definitely got a lot of people’s attention, including the franchise space and Marriott. So it’s a, and a lot of our business comes from glamping, from the manufacturers that are selling the glamping equipment. They know us and they send us people that they’re trying to get financing for.

[00:14:03] Scott Bahr: The glamping space tends to one of the reasons you’re seeing the hotels in the space too is because glamping has a little bit stronger appeal to the typical hotel guest. And the hotels were recognizing the threat that glamping posed to them. And that kind of came on the heels of the pandemic originally, but they’ve also seen that once a lot of those leisure travelers that normally weren’t campers or RVers were being attracted to these facilities, they decided to jump in into the game.

 Yeah, I think you’re going to see even more of it in the next couple of years.

[00:14:41] Brian Searl: What are you seeing in the changing, sorry, continue Paul, please, if you had an answer to that.

[00:14:46] Paul Bosley: No, I just agree. I, my, my analysis is the glamping industry is very creative. The RV park industry, I’m an Airstreamer, so they, I’ve certainly been in a lot of RV parks all over the country and they’re either pull through sites, back in sites, or campsites. And then all of a sudden glamping comes along and you start seeing a lot of companies like Ed’s company put in, IT equipment and they start to put in tiny homes and stuff like that.

 But realistically, glamping is people own land all over the country and they’re trying to figure out a way to get a second income. I think, I just think the glamping industry has just got a lot more upside. The average deal is smaller. The glamping industry deals are anywhere from, let’s just say, 400,000 to maybe a million five or something like that.

 I got one today that we’re working on a USDA that’s 13 million, but that’s right near Cooperstown, and they’re going to build a nice resort near the Baseball Hall of Fame type of thing. But most of them are smaller deals, and the RV park industry has bigger deals. They’re larger deals anywhere from, let’s just say, 3 million up to 25 million. So the average glamping deal is a smaller deal.

[00:16:02] Ed O. Bridgman: I’m working on an RV destination right now that’s 150 million.

[00:16:08] Paul Bosley: Holy moly. 150 million.

[00:16:11] Ed O. Bridgman: Yeah, so we have to make certain that we don’t throw a blanket over the entire industry. There are pockets in this industry that are booming. All right, I am, I’m busier than I’ve ever been. I’m working on nine different projects at the same time all over the United States. And some of the biggest ones are 150 million down to three or four million, something like that.

 But what I think what’s interesting, and Scott can talk to this some more, and I’m sure Simon can talk to this some more, but it used to be that the Southeast was the hot spot a few years ago for development. And now I’m building as fast as possible in the Northeast. And what that’s being driven by is these data centers.

 Whatever your political, I’m not, I don’t want to talk political but our current president wants to lead the world in AI technology and data centers. And data centers are popping up wherever there’s water and electricity. And they’re being developed by people who live in RVs full time for three to six months while they’re at that job before they transfer to the next job. And we cannot build, we cannot develop enough RV sites fast enough to accommodate these workers.

[00:17:34] Brian Searl: Yeah, I don’t think there’s a negative, Scott, and I’ve studied this and talked about this many times before. I don’t think there’s a downside to where long term is headed. Generally speaking, whether it’s data centers or just a lot of parts of the Northeast and Southeast too, and probably other areas of the country are swapping to long term in some cases. So I think long term is a stronger part of the market other than maybe Texas that got overbuilt for some reason. I think it’s a transient that we’re worried about. Is that fair, Ed? Simon?

[00:18:02] Ed O. Bridgman: I think, I was in Texas last week. I landed in Amarillo. I had a client, I had two clients in Amarillo. I had one in New Mexico, and then I went to Shamrock, Texas, about 90 miles east, and then I stayed on I-40 and went and saw a client in Shawnee, Oklahoma. All in one week.

 These places are coming up and these happen to be right along I-40. They have an equestrian theme. Matter of fact, the one, one of them in Amarillo is going to build rodeo grounds inside the RV destination with a big covered rodeo barn and a cafe and a dance floor. And it’s going to be open, partially open to the public and partially open to RVers who are traveling with their horses and they’re going to have a place to put their horse right next to their RV.

 And it also has a glamping, probably 60, 70 percent of every RV destination that I design has probably higher than that, a glamping component. They also, higher, definitely higher than that, they have a boat and RV storage component.

[00:19:11] Brian Searl: Simon, what are you seeing in Europe? Because we talked to, I don’t want to call out his name on the show, but we talked to a mutual friend that we both had at Croatia, at the Croatian Camping Congress that I met down in France. Talked to him yesterday and he said there’s some concern in some areas of Europe that perhaps June and August are a little bit lighter than usual. Are you seeing that?

[00:19:31] Simon Neal: Yeah, I saw some statistics recently that, the results from April were down a bit. But that’s also a bit due to the timing of the Easter holidays because whether that lands in March or April, when people are off, when people are traveling, because of course most of Europe is heavily dependent on the German market. And the south is people moving, traveling during the holidays to have stays.

 But definitely, yeah, there is uncertainty. And I think, you can always get that last minute surge and I think that will probably happen. But certainly actually the weather in Europe has been pretty good so far, which also plays into it. But yeah, uncertainties around, people are holding off and our customers are definitely seeing that as well.

[00:20:14] Brian Searl: Is it the same reasons that we’re hearing? I don’t know what, interest rates are obviously, I don’t know if they’re high in Europe. Generally speaking, we have the same macroeconomic issues, right? Fuel, diesel, sightseeing, stuff like that.

[00:20:30] Simon Neal: Yeah. Yeah, it’s the same. I think it’s a global issue now, so everybody’s feeling it.

[00:20:39] Brian Searl: How is the, is there anything else you want to add from the industry or anything else you’ve observed?

[00:20:44] Simon Neal: yeah, actually I was reading some stuff there’s a nice report came out in Italy, which is quite telling actually. And this year the kind of big search word is comfort. And also searching for things like, entertainment, pet friendly, swimming pools, beach restaurants. So this is really building in the mind of the consumer more and more, which is the experience focus. And it’s also record high for family searches.

 The family market is back at its strongest. I think we had during COVID there was a bit more of a swing away from family and kind of new people stepping in to the market. But now it’s really coming back to family strength. And yeah, I think up to 77 percent searches on family and then split the rest between kind of younger groups of friends, 18 percent, and solo travelers, 5 percent.

[00:21:37] Brian Searl: That’s definitely a theme is comfort, good amenities and family experience is coming back. Are you seeing that over here too, Scott?

[00:21:48] Scott Bahr: Yeah, definitely. The family factor is going to be pretty big again this year. As it’s fairly typical. That a little bit more in the glamping sector though too, which I think is, really interesting. You see a lot of I, I know people who put up glamping parks and they were surprised at the volume of families they got. They, originally thought it would be mostly couples.

 But the idea of comfort is one that we’ve been, tracking for a while and looking at, how much does that really influence people’s decisions. And it used to be that it was just, it was one of many, but now it’s, but it’s both physical and mental comfort too. That not to get, too deep out there on it, but people really do seek a place that, that has, mental comfort.

 It’s like they want to be more relaxed, they want to be a little bit more I don’t want to call it sedate necessarily, but less stimulation in some respects. And to build on what you were saying too, Ed, though, there’s a lot, also a lot of folks, especially in the RV industry, that are looking for those events. They are looking for those things to, that are attractions, whether it’s music festivals, the horse people, I have horse people in my family, so I know exactly what you’re talking about there with that park that you’re mentioning.

 But in general, people are pretty stressed out overall. What we’ve seen is a change over, we ask people about a lot of, economic factors and how much does that impact them and how much does it impact them, in terms of not just their wallet, but their, kind of emotional state. And we ask them how sensitive they are to these things.

 And we’ve seen a definite uptick into the percentage who say they’re very sensitive right now. So that tells me that we’ve had this uptick in people who are a little bit more stressed out, they’re looking for a little bit of relief in some respect, some way, and I think any place that can, put in place anything that appeals to that idea that it’s gonna, you’re gonna de-stress here.

 And everybody has their own way of doing that. It could be going to a rodeo, or it could be just going and sitting on a rock by the river. As long as we, we see that a lot.

[00:23:56] Brian Searl: Do you think they’re being a little bit more selective about what they define and consider as an experience though? Or a way to, not even an experience, but a way to de-stress? Because if it was just de-stressing, you would feel like the occupancy rates might not be appear to be down as far as they are as early in the season.

 Like we pulled July 4th numbers you were talking about last week on Outwired, it’s 62 percent macro occupancy for July 4th weekend, which is America’s 250, which feels like it should be higher than that. Now granted there are some states like Maryland who are at 93 percent and so it’s disproportionate where you go, but it feels like that should be higher if they were just looking to de-stress and get outside to wherever they could go.

[00:24:35] Scott Bahr: Sure. And people will look for ideas. And if you’re, if you have ideas, you should be putting them out there. But yeah, there, some people may not think of these things first. Is it, it’s less stressful maybe to stay at a campground or, someplace out in the woods than it is to stay with a bunch of your friends in an Airbnb. That could really stress you out.

 And we know with Gen Z, they do get stressed out in groups a little bit more. There’s that, that the opportunity I think to maybe just be able to separate yourself from your travel companions is de-stressing for people.

 or having your own space. We see that, we don’t see it jumping a lot. I know that, just Simon just mentioned solo travel, we see the interest in solo travel increasing as well. We don’t see a real corresponding increase in participation in solo travel, but people, the idea of it appeals to a lot of people and I think that’s an opportunity too, honestly.

 Oh, do we just lose Ed? Oh, he’s back. So yeah, but it’s, each person has their own definition of how to de-stress. And there’s the good thing now is the options, there’s so many options for people right now.

 Different types of environments and atmospheres and types of accommodations and, whatever amenities. It’s it’s out there for them. I think right now we, we have a good supply of those types of options. We just need to make sure people know about them when they’re ready to make that decision.

[00:26:07] Brian Searl: What are you seeing Paul from is there any difference that you’re seeing Paul in the lending and the types of projects that are being approved or wanting to be developed over the last near year and a half as some of this economic stuff has changed?

[00:26:21] Paul Bosley: I think that what I first started in just the RV park industry, we were actually how I got into the industry was by reading what I was speaking at a franchise show out west. And I met the person in charge of franchise financing for Yogi Bear Jellystone Parks is what it was called back then before it was bought. And their average deals were always in the many millions. I’ve got one closing probably next month for about 13 million on a USDA loan.

 And there were always larger projects, even on the resales for KOA or new people coming in, there were always larger projects. And to now, I with glamping coming into it, the range is all over the map. Like I said earlier, we have people come to us, maybe somebody just owns a couple acres of land and they want to put a couple tiny homes on it for a second form of income. It could be something as simple as that, which is, anywhere from 400,000, let’s just say, to 6 or 700,000 to develop the land and, put the tiny homes and give them working capital.

 So what I’ve seen is just the two industries have broadened the dollar amounts. And then when Ed just said 150 million or whatever the heck he just said, where my teeth almost fell out. The, I think what the office market drying up because you see in the Wall Street Journal all the time that people can’t really invest in the office market anymore because the occupancy rates are real low. There’s been a lot of defaults.

 A lot of this big money’s coming into the RV park industry, which is, you can think about it, I mean it’s the same thing, I mean from a standpoint of an investor. So I think you’re seeing a lot of big money coming in and then at the same time you’re seeing these people that just own a couple acres of land. So the industry’s just, the two industries I should say have just broadened the scope of finance, where you could be doing anything from, in my case it would be the USDA goes up to 25 million. So anywhere up from 400,000 to maybe 30, 30 million is the range for me anyhow, 

[00:28:27] Brian Searl: and is it, have you noticed any difference in the ability to get these approved or is it pretty standard for the government?

[00:28:33] Paul Bosley: It’s really a, it’s based on the lender. Each lender is different, they all have their own appetites. Some lenders like we’ve been working with a 504 lender, they go up to 10 million and they were one of the biggest 504 lenders and all of a sudden they’re starting to back away from the startups, but that’s just an appetite change for that lender and in the meantime I’ve got other 504 lenders.

 We’re under contract with about 30 lenders so it’s just a matter of picking who I send stuff to.

[00:29:03] Brian Searl: Yeah, I think that’s what I’m more asking is more the appetite. Like for sure there’s not going to be a complete cessation, we’re not going through that bad of an economy right now, right? So I’m just curious if there’s been any change in the audience that you’re considering projects for the loan during anything.

[00:29:18] Paul Bosley: No, this month I’ve got already this month, it’s only a couple days old. I’ve got a deal came in from Oaktree, O2 Treehouse for 4.7 million. Ood houses for somebody owns some land for 650, and the glamping show came in with one for 6.8 million. That’s the first three days of this month.

[00:29:41] Brian Searl:  Nice. Okay. Good. Glad to hear it. And the Glamping industry then out there with the world’s largest consulting agency.

 Ed O. Bridgman: What was the question? I, you broke up a minute.

 Just generally what are you seeing out there with the appetite for what people are looking to develop. I know you touched on it briefly.

[00:30:02] Ed O. Bridgman: Oh, like I said, I’m working on nine right now and got several more in the pipeline that’s right now, and they range from 150 million down to 1 million. But Paul was talking about the glamping industry being more and more diverse. I finished one last year in Utah just an hour north of Zion park and that was at elevation 7,500 feet.

 The gentleman had 600 acres and you couldn’t get an RV up there, you couldn’t get an RV up there. He was helicoptering his guests to his glamping and it was all glamping and so we designed that for him, got that going for him. But it’s a kind of unique I guess, but we are seeing diversification.

 I think that was 76 million I think to develop that one, but it had two helicopter landing pads on it and horse trails and it had his own zip line and he had his own private ski slope. But yeah, you couldn’t get an RV up there, that was all glamping.

[00:31:34] Brian Searl: Was he ski resort first and added glamping or was he glamping and…

[00:31:38] Ed O. Bridgman: No, his glamping first by far. Glamping was his primary objective. His amenity to get people to pay to have a helicopter take him up there and stay for a week was to provide these amenities like a private ski slope. So there are some people, I don’t know, he might be listening so I, I got to be careful but his belief is that there are people who don’t want, they’re embarrassed to say they don’t know how to ride a horse or they don’t know how to snow ski, something like that. So they will pay…

[00:32:13] Brian Searl: I don’t know how to snow ski.

[00:32:13] Ed O. Bridgman: Hey, you don’t know how to snow ski?

[00:32:17] Brian Searl: No, I grew up in Ohio, it was flat man.

[00:32:20] Ed O. Bridgman: Anyway so he’s believing that people will come up there just so that they can be private and take private lessons and learn how to do these things privately.  And so he built a very secure plateau on top of a mountain that’s 7,500 feet above sea level. 

[00:32:41] Brian Searl: Yeah, I think those places, and Scott you’ve done research on this too, and Simon I’d love to hear your thoughts if there’s a difference on this in Europe too, but this is what we’ve referred to as the K-shaped economy, right? I don’t, I’m not worried at all about these luxury high-end glamping resorts being built. Are you Scott?

[00:32:56] Scott Bahr: No. Not a bit. Not a bit.

[00:32:58] Brian Searl: I think most people are going to be perfectly fine, maybe 100 percent occupancy or really close to it. It’s the middle ground people, the, let’s call it just for the sake of clarity so people understand maybe a little bit more, let’s call it the KOA Holiday or below that I’m worried about. The middle of the road mom and pop, like I have a playground, I have a swimming pool, I, regular camping as a private campground would be viewed at.

 That’s what I’m worried about this summer and into next with the RV industry. You have any, Scott you have data on that, and Simon I want to hear your thoughts on Europe if there’s a difference between that, that you’re seeing in Europe. But Ed, what do you think on that before we move on from you?

[00:33:37] Ed O. Bridgman: Oh if you provide a better than average location at a better, and it can be higher than average price. I have so many people contact me at Homestead RV community that don’t ask about price. They’re just interested in how nice it is, and if you build something nice we are not seeing a reduction in our occupancy rate month over month from last year. So you know, if you build something nice, I haven’t seen a problem.

[00:34:12] Scott Bahr: That was one of the things I heard too this week. One of the RV manufacturers mentioned that they were absolutely amazed at how many of the the class As in the 300,000 plus range they were selling. Like they can’t keep them. There’s, they’re, they just sell as many as they can get out the door.

 It’s the, again, it’s that middle range and that lower end towables that aren’t. So very similar, it looks, the economy is having the same impact on each sector it looks like.

[00:34:43] Brian Searl: is there something similar that you’re seeing over there Simon out of the type of parks that are being more successful in really in the summer or do we not know yet or…

[00:34:52] Simon Neal: No, I think there’s definitely a trend where, glamping is an add-on. So I, in fact we were visiting a customer last week who is, on an island on a peninsula, has an amazing beach, has guests who’ve been coming for 25 years in RVs who are always coming. And they’re really pushing, the cabins, the mobile home, and they’ve invested heavily in that just to diversify what they’re selling. I think that’s a key point.

 So they build up some cash and that’s where they’re putting it and they’re getting bookings. So there’s definitely, if you are small and you’re mid-range, if there’s an option there to, give that high-end experience even a small part of your campground, that’s going to add this, separate market where you can attract people who otherwise wouldn’t be coming to your campground. And yeah, like Ed said, you got to make sure the experience is good, but you have to diversify what you’re selling.

[00:35:48] Brian Searl: Is it fair to say that like along that, and I can’t remember if I heard a stat on this when we were in Croatia at the Croatian camping conference from Pin Camp or whoever was getting that presentation. But they were talking about how the Germans who are either retired or close to retirement that are heavily unionized have a nice large salary are the ones that typically come down into the coast of Croatia and are willing to spend the money on those larger luxurious accommodations here up in the, 500 plus euro range. Is that something similar that like it’s the K-shaped kind of or no?

[00:36:22] Simon Neal: Yeah, I’d say so. There’s going to be, that wealthy retired couples coming and staying for, four or five weeks and they do that probably in their own RV. Or just the kind of, upper middle class families who are going to come and they can afford to pay, this four or five hundred dollars a night for this super nice private pool cabins like we have in some places.

 But in the same resort you have, the forty dollars a night RV pitch, tent pitch with the shared amenities and they’re generally pretty good. Yeah, one thing we had a discussion about was, the cost of developing and I think from what I hear of, site costs of sixty to eighty thousand dollars is just really crazy compared to what it costs to develop here in Europe.

 I think, I don’t know if that’s completely regulation or it’s just the style with the concrete pads and everything, but in Europe it’s much more kind of adapt to what nature has given you and just draw some lines over it essentially. So I think it’s way cheaper to develop. And then you have spare cash to put in the extra amenities, so even if you’re a kind of mid-level campground you generally have pretty good amenities on the side.

[00:37:34] Brian Searl: Do you have a sense of what that number is to develop a site in Europe? I know it’s way all over the place but 60, 50, 60, 80 is what we’re hearing over here.

[00:37:41] Simon Neal: Yeah, I did a bit of research and I got fifteen thousand dollars so I can back that up with huge amounts.

[00:37:50] Brian Searl: Yeah. That’s a pretty significant gap. We could, Scott you need to dive into that and do some research on that, figure out why that’s the case. That’d be really interesting to study wouldn’t it?

[00:37:59] Scott Bahr: It would. I mean because that is significant, that is  especially if it’s an apples to apples comparison. And maybe 

[00:38:08] Simon Neal:  I have a picture if you want to share it. 

[00:38:10] Brian Searl: Yeah please, if you want to.

[00:38:12] Simon Neal: I shared this today on a LinkedIn post, but it’s this kind of what made me think of it.

[00:38:17] Brian Searl: I’m just gonna walk in the back because I gotta share it on my laptop. I gotta approve adding it to the stream or whatever.

[00:38:26] Simon Neal: Let me see if I can share now.

[00:38:34] Ed O. Bridgman: Scott, while we got a little dead air I would think it’d be interesting to note the average site development cost in, by location. For example, I just finished one in Arkansas and they were paying fifty dollars a yard for concrete, and I’m working on one in Indiana and they’re paying three hundred and fifty dollars a yard for concrete.

 That makes a big difference if you’re, it would, it’d be difficult to compare apples to apples, make sure they’re using, if they’re using asphalt roads and concrete sites and what size their sites are, stuff like that. But I would be interested in your take on what the construction cost can be across the country because we’re really growing a lot in the northeast and it’s very expensive.

[00:39:31] Scott Bahr: Yep. That’s where I’m located right now, I’m in Maine yeah, and especially compared to the southeast, yeah, the costs are dramatically different. We, that’s something that we should work on and get that, put that out there because I agree. You think of that difference that you gave right there just is, 

[00:39:49] Brian Searl: yeah, I mean talk us through this Simon because it’s interesting. Like I’m sure there are differences in the way the sites are being built to save that much money, but the question is maybe there’s a market for a cheaper site if you could buy one or if you could build one in the United States that maybe Europe is doing. I don’t know, talk us through it Simon.

[00:40:08] Simon Neal: Yeah, this was a great example because it is a typical kind of fifth wheel American RV in a European site, and they generally are much smaller, generally more restricted access, but this, this is a five star campground so it’s maybe a bit of an exception. But you can see the typical site is, ground’s been leveled, you have an access road which here is not concrete, it’s not asphalt, it’s just…

  Sorry, I lost you for a second. 

 Yeah, it’s just a, the natural earth with some gravel on top. You’ve got these bushes planted in between, so really there’s not that much, construction work to be done. There’s not that much material, it’s not expensive material. Each site will have water, electricity, sewer is a lot rarer but it’s just, it’s a different approach to it.

 I know I’ve been in American RV sites, I know it’s very systematic, there’s concrete pads, much more infrastructure.  So is there a balance there? Because this cost saving, is pretty significant. 

 Ed O. Bridgman: what’s the size of these sites? Width and length? 

 Simon Neal: Yeah. So this one, i’m gonna have to quickly convert to meters. It’s probably 30 feet by 20 at least. So it’s not pull through, it’s not back in. You gotta do better work to get your RV in there, but it’s possible. And this is a pretty big sort of medium, large size site as an example.

[00:41:40] Ed O. Bridgman: And this 

[00:41:41] Simon Neal: is, and the engineer, 

[00:41:41] Ed O. Bridgman: did I understand you correctly, that this is 30 feet wide long, 30 feet is the length. 

[00:41:51] Simon Neal: You’re gonna have to let me measure it ’cause I’m just pulling out my head. 

[00:41:55] Brian Searl: Okay. He’s going from meters to feet. But yeah, he said he, what he did say he said was 30 foot long by 20 feet wide. Keep in mind, they don’t have as large of rigs in Europe. 

[00:42:05] Ed O. Bridgman: I was gonna say an average fifth wheel in America is 42 feet long, that’s average and we see them up to 45 feet long.

[00:42:12] Brian Searl: But either way, if you look at, if you look at the way he’s, they’re building the sites right, even if you were to extend that to 45, 50 feet using the same materials with no concrete pads and no gravel and asphalt, I think you still have a pretty cheap site. Maybe it’s 20,000 instead of 15, right?

[00:42:29] Ed O. Bridgman: if you double it in size you could double the 15,000, say it’s a 30,000 dollar site.

[00:42:34] Brian Searl: Okay, so we’re still like, we’re still like at least 50 percent cheaper than the 60 to 80 range right, maybe 75 percent cheaper. So the question is I think is not whether this product is better or worse, it’s what if that this product is different and is there a market for this in the United States.

[00:42:56] Ed O. Bridgman: I would say that there’s certainly a market in the work camps that we’re developing around these data centers. There are people who are working in these data centers, they work 13 days in a row and they get one day off and then they work about 10 to 12 hours a day. And they don’t care if you have a pool or a playground or something like that, they don’t care, okay.

 And they don’t give a hoot about I don’t know if I can say hoot on this show, but asphalt roads and gravel sites and stuff like that. They’re just wanting a quiet place to sleep when they’re not working.

[00:43:34] Brian Searl: but here, like here Simon, the typical clientele at these resorts who are filling these sites are families or what?

[00:43:44] Simon Neal: Yeah, I mean it’s heavily family orientated, that kind of, 70 percent range and the rest young couples and solo or older retired couples. But yeah, these sites are also mixed use. You can put tents on these sites, you can put small RVs and big RVs, so we don’t distinguish between a tent site and an RV site. It’s only basically size, you have a small one or a big one, and small ones not going to fit some RVs, that’s it.

[00:44:10] Brian Searl: But then the benefit of them taking these safe construction costs on the individual sites and just inferring here so push back against me if I’m wrong but the benefit of these inferred construction sites is not only that they’re cheaper but then you can spend the money like you’re talking about on other amenities which then allow people to gather outside their site more in community areas like pools or restaurants or whatever else which negate the need for a huge luxury pad that costs so much money at the site right?

[00:44:38] Simon Neal: Yeah I think that’s a great argument. I mean if you have a you know really luxurious RV do you need to go outside of it sort of thing or outside of your site but I think definitely that community aspect and the family angle is huge. And then yeah make the site more basic spend more elsewhere and it would also be good for your guests.

[00:45:00] Scott Bahr: Yeah I like the idea,  excuse me, of these kinds of sites definitely in the mix because one of the things that especially now that you see is people wanting to make maybe some trade-offs instead of you know paying the you know a hundred dollars or more for you know the full hookup patio site that maybe they would opt for you know just a very nice well manicured gravel site and spend a lot less you know probably the same price that someone would for putting their tent on. That would have an appeal and for a campground owner I would think that might be appealing too because you have a larger diversity of site types.

 You know you have a lot of mixed sites you know you still have your big pull-throughs with your patios and everything but then mix in you know some of this these types of sites and it gives you a little bit more option to bring maybe bring in a few more guests and you know fill up some of those spots that for people that are you know don’t want to pay a hundred dollars for their an RV site.

[00:46:04] Brian Searl: Yeah to be clear like my argument is not that the European model replaces the US model my argument is there a place for the European model alongside the current US model to expand the ability of some of our consumers who either can’t afford 300,000 plus class A whatever right or don’t necessarily want to pay for all that because they don’t need all that because their rig is either smaller or they don’t want to hang out in their RV all day because it’s I don’t want to say not as nice but not as big as not as convenient as whatever right not as much like home.

[00:46:35] Scott Bahr: I feel like the campground owners would like no people watching people try to park their RV in one of those back their RV into that. No kidding.

[00:46:47] Brian Searl: So is there do they have any hidden buildings and stuff Simon in Europe or are they… Is it because they drive on the different no they don’t drive on the different side of the road never mind that’s UK.

[00:46:58] Simon Neal: No the rigs are generally much smaller right so this picture here is a bit of an exception seeing something that size. So it’s much smaller it’s easier access that could also be a trend growing in North America that people are buying smaller vehicles more economic cheaper if the market is changing a bit. So you never know it could could start to drift down a bit in size.

[00:47:20] Paul Bosley: Yeah over the last couple of years when I’m tra I spend another I’d say two months three months on the road with the Airstream you know traveling all over the country. And I recently I talked to my client that’s building the Jellystone Park he was trying to cut back and he was going to have concrete pads everywhere and I told him more than half of the places that we go to are just crushed gravel and you know there’s I told him you don’t really need that and then you can cut back on a lot of the landscaping until later on and so I mean I’ve seen crushed gravel in most of the places that whether they’re KOAs or any of them that we stay at because you know when I’m planning our trips you know it’s just a matter of getting from point A to point B. And even some of the state parks that we stay in are just crushed gravel they’re not concrete.

 So you know I just advised him if you want to cut back and that’s what he did he moved a lot of his concrete costs to crush gravel and he just cut back on some of his landscaping to bring it in at the cost he was trying to bring it in at. And I’m not a consultant I’m just a an Airstreamer that just told him what I see.

[00:48:32] Brian Searl: It has the largest financial empire in the glamping industry. No sorry okay. So Scott though you and I were talking about this like we were talking about on the show last week about how there’s been a lot of over the last couple decades and maybe sped up after COVID a lot of people are coming into the industry who are let’s say copying the existing blueprint right and this is how we get a lot of parking lot RV parks right? Is there maybe a sense of like the people who are coming into this industry are seeing what the newer developments have done during COVID or whatever else and seeing the concrete pads seeing everything else and felt like this is the only way to do it?

[00:49:14] Scott Bahr: Yeah. Yeah I mean I think it’s smart. I mean to look at that. You you you know what kind of price are you going to demand and what yeah what kind of park do you want to be too.

 But I think you know being able to especially now you know to be able to you know for the average person out there to look at some of these the different options is very wise to do. And I think that you know the more the newer people who come in I would say and maybe Ed you prob might know be able to answer this better than me but it seemed like a lot of the people who are looking to develop the parks that I that have come to me for advice and have all wanted the sites to be much bigger and much more have more space be more like wooded more natural type of landscaping.

 And it just seemed like that’s been happening a lot more. That people have wanted that kind of a when they’re building their park that they’re seeking that because I think that’s what you know that people want in general but you know again that’s part of a little bit more of the premium market I think too.

[00:50:24] Brian Searl: we’re gonna need to do a study we need to do a study on this right? We see because are we do? Because like I was down in Florida and I know you had to leave early Scott but in my presentation I did a summary of people Florida’s websites and I think it was like a very large percentage of Florida websites emphasize the word community. But in the five star reviews that people leave almost nobody uses the word community.

 Which shows a gap between or appears to show a gap between what park owners think that people want and what people actually want. So I think we need to figure out whether RVers actually want gigantic sites with concrete pads or would they trade that for a smaller site and more amenities or do they would they just trade a period without asking anything in return for a cheaper site?

[00:51:09] Ed O. Bridgman: unfortunately there are still a large number of people in the outdoor hospitality industry that don’t realize that there are different types of RV destinations and parks are just one of several different types. There’s at least five different types. Community is one of the five different types. Resorts is another campgrounds is another parks and then there’s the hybrid where something was built to be a park but it’s being used as a community.

 So it’d be very easy to do that research in the fact that there is nobody building a park today and that’s because parks are the only one of the different RV destination types that is actually losing money. So parks are being converted over to communities. There’s no communities being converted to parks that’s that doesn’t happen. So there’s short-term destinations being converted to long-term destinations and that shows you right there that the trend is going towards more long-term use.

[00:52:25] Brian Searl: Alright let’s spend the last few minutes asking each other questions. We only have three minutes but we’ll see how many we can get to. So for Paul and Ed this is what we typically do at the end of the show. Paul just is there a question you have for either Simon or Scott or Ed that you’d like to ask?

[00:52:38] Paul Bosley: I can’t think of one off the top of my head.

[00:52:48] Brian Searl: Alright Paul you’re supposed to participate here man. I’m trying to give you the floor.

[00:52:55] Ed O. Bridgman: I don’t want to hog the show but Thor is coming out with a class A motor coach that’s 80,000 pounds and it’s all electric. They we got an announcement the other day I can’t remember who’s building it but there’s a class C motor coach coming out it’s out now that’s all electric it’s not as heavy it’s only 37,000 pounds something like that. But this thing’s only 30 feet long and it’s all electric. Is that scaring our mom and pops who have daisy chain pedestals who are on a 200 amp service with six pedestals connected to the same breaker is anybody worried about the fact that these RVs are going to draw 100 amp service by themselves is anybody talking about this?

[00:53:42] Brian Searl: that’s a huge nuance right? Is it scaring them or should it scare them? Because is it scaring them is probably like a few years away just like they’re still not scared of electric cars. But is it scaring them is a different question.

[00:54:16] Ed O. Bridgman: they better catch they better start that lag up because they’re coming.

[00:54:19] Brian Searl: I agree yeah. That’s what I said is versus should but continue sorry.

[00:54:24] Ed O. Bridgman: I’m sorry. We have Teslas we have electric cars at Homestead RV community constantly. So charging electric vehicles that’s been going on for a couple years now.

[00:54:38] Brian Searl: Yeah. Alright Ed let’s try you. Do you have a question for Scott or Simon or Paul?

[00:54:43] Ed O. Bridgman: Yeah I was just asking is anybody worried about the changes to the industry with the RVs being all electric or demanding more electricity.

[00:54:53] Scott Bahr: It doesn’t I mean from my perspective it doesn’t really worry me I feel like it’s the future and it’s like climb on board or get out of the way honestly because it’s going to happen more and the younger generation is going to demand it. If you want to get that generation into RVs you’re going to have to provide this stuff. It’s like I’m sorry it’s just the way it is. The campground owners are going to have a tough time with the conversion and bringing the infrastructure along but I also feel like it’s going to drive innovation. I truly feel like that it’s what we need this kind of thing to really push innovation out there.

[00:55:28] Ed O. Bridgman: Homestead was the first to be able to meter electricity at every site for every guest even overnight guests automatically. And and all my clients want that.

[00:55:40] Brian Searl: Interesting yeah. Cool. That’s great. Scott do you have a question for anybody?

[00:55:46] Scott Bahr: I was going to ask Paul briefly it’s based on you know what you do what do you think our outlook for the rest of the year is?

[00:55:55] Paul Bosley: So far I’ve been very busy you know of course we’re diversified between the two industries and we a lot of our referrals come from the manufacturers the people that are making the yurts and the glamping structures and the tiny homes. So from my perspective we’ve been busy and from the lender side you know we’ve got very active lenders that when we exhibit at the shows they come and work at the shows with us so they’re we have good lenders and we have a lot of companies that are submitting deals to our company. As you know there’s very few other lenders that really exhibit at these shows and one of the bigger ones I think it taken a couple pretty big hits on their portfolio so they started to back away.

 You know so I think we’re from our company in particular I think we’re in really good shape for going forward. And you know I don’t know if you’ve heard but people like Bruce Hurta joined us and different people in the industry that have been in the finance space we’ve got some very good bankers that are working in our group so you know there’s a lot of expertise that we offer to help people. So I feel good about it personally.

[00:57:10] Scott Bahr: good. Yeah by the way I attended the finance committee meeting at the RVIA meetings this week. So it’s just a it’s a really interesting part of the industry that I’m very fascinated with.

[00:57:23] Brian Searl: Alright Simon do you have any questions before we go?

[00:57:26] Simon Neal: A quick one for Ed. Is there any all these nine projects you have running now is there like one incredibly unique aspect to one of them I don’t know accommodation type something new that nobody’s done before that you’d like to share.

[00:57:41] Ed O. Bridgman: A very good question. We touched briefly that the hotel industry is branching out into glamping and RVs. That 150 million dollar project it does include in addition to the 150 million is for RVs but they’re also on the same they have 153 acres and they’re going to have a hotel on the people who are putting up the money they actually own several hotels and they’re putting one of their hotels right next door to the RV industry. So that’s a little bit unique.

 And then I already touched base on the fact that we’re seeing a lot of equestrian background this one guy’s putting in a rodeo right there at the RV destination and people can get their horse out of their horse trailer that they live in the front half and the horse lives in the back half but they can get him out right there at that location and have that horse right next to them. So and then the data centers are anywhere a data center is popping up we’re building RV destinations as fast as possible.

[00:58:53] Scott Bahr: How quickly can you do that? Let’s say a data center gets approved how quickly can you build an RV destination for the workers?

[00:59:00] Brian Searl: Especially in an area like New England which is a little bit less permissive than Texas.

[00:59:05] Ed O. Bridgman: Yeah I’m actually building two in Texas. But there are certain areas of the country that are more open friendly to RVs than others. But what is unique what is interesting is that when you have a data center come in and purchase 1,700 acres and they are going to be bringing in thousands of workers and they’re going to be paying hundreds of millions of dollars worth of taxes over the next few years you have a lot more pull with that governing official to say hey where do you want these people to live dude okay?

 They’ve got to go someplace and we have been we have seen that we’ve been able to push through permits much easier now when the governing official has got somebody standing on his throat saying you know you better assist this data center because the restaurant owner the gas fuel pump owner the retail stores the grocery stores they all want this here so get out of the way. Alright so I don’t think I answered your question. Permitting is what takes permitting engineering stuff like that can take months but yeah if you can get that steamrolled down the time you put a shovel in the ground till your grand opening can be six months to a year.

[01:00:36] Scott Bahr: Okay so still a not a significant amount of time but some time.

[01:00:41] Brian Searl: Okay we’re a couple minutes over we’re gonna let everybody go be cognizant of everybody’s time but let’s just do go around and do final thoughts. Ed any final thoughts and where can they find out more about you?

[01:00:49] Ed O. Bridgman: thank you thank you thank you for allowing me to be on the show. I am I’m excited to help I’m passionate about the industry. Call EOB Consulting and I’ll help you out any way I can. I’ll look at your property for free and give you my thoughts.

[01:01:07] Brian Searl: Thank you Ed appreciate you being here. Paul where can they learn more about what you offer and then is there any final thoughts you have?

[01:01:13] Paul Bosley: I thoroughly enjoyed this. I mean I found it interesting everyone’s perspective about you know the development side of it because I’m not really normally that involved with the development part of it you know I’m more toward the end of the process when they figured out what they’re trying to do and how much it’s going to cost that’s when people get in touch with me. So really why I didn’t have any questions so I appreciate being part of this group and learning from your expertise because in principle that just makes me a better person to serve them because in principle that’s our job you know I’m a SCORE counselor and have been for 17 years for the SBA and a volunteer for SCORE so the more I learn about this the better I am which is really why I started Airstreaming because I wanted to learn the industry instead of flying around and renting cars.

 So I enjoy the group I and if you I can ever help you in the future just invite me and I’ll join if I’m available. Happy to do it.

[01:02:11] Brian Searl: Thanks Paul. Appreciate you being here. Simon, final thoughts and where can they learn more about Campmap?

[01:02:17] Simon Neal: I just really enjoyed hearing about the horse development on the campground. I think that’s a great idea. Something that they might really pick up. And yeah, to find out about Campmap, campmap.com. You can easily reach out, book a meeting there, see demos, or on LinkedIn you can find me and reach out directly.

[01:02:37] Brian Searl: Thanks Simon. Appreciate you being here. Last but not least, Scott Bahr.

[01:02:42] Scott Bahr: CairnConsultingGroup.com is you can go there. There’s a resource library that we try to keep fairly up to date. A lot of research that we’ve done, a lot of some research I’ve done with Brian. And if not, just reach out directly to me.

 I love talking about this stuff and as Brian knows, I can talk about it all day long. I’m easily sidetracked. So be patient.

 But yeah, no, it’s great. It was great talking to everyone today. It was it was enlightening. It was good stuff.

[01:03:07] Brian Searl: Cool. Thank you for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. If you are not sick and tired of hearing from me and Scott, we will be live in 51 minutes and 17, 16, 15 seconds on Outwired… but we’re going to talk about more data, AI news, stuff like that.

 So join us there. Otherwise we’ll see you next week on MC Fireside Chats. Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

[01:03:25] Scott Bahr: Bye everybody.

[01:03:25] Paul Bosley: Thank you.

[01:03:26] Ed O. Bridgman: Bye bye.

[01:03:26] Simon Neal: Bye.