What’s changing in outdoor hospitality — and what does it mean for your business? Find out on Wednesday, June 4, 2025, at 2:00 PM ET, as Brian Searl hosts a candid discussion on the economic pressures, guest behavior shifts, and market trends every campground and glamping operator should be watching.
He’ll be joined by recurring guests Mark Koep, Founder and CEO of Campground Views; Scott Bahr, President of Cairn Consulting Group; Simon Neal, Founder and CEO of CampMap; Miguel Huerta, President of the Mexican Glamping Association; and Rafael Correa, President and CFO of Blue Water Development Corp.
This episode also welcomes Eleanore Hamm, President of RVDA Canada, and Phil Ingrassia, Executive Director of RVDA, as new members of the Week 1 panel. Previously part of the Week 4 lineup, Phil and Eleonore now bring their RV industry expertise to the Week 1 conversation, beginning with this in-depth discussion.
Joining as a special guest is Susan Brenton, Executive Director of the Arizona Outdoor Hospitality Association, who will share her perspective on statewide trends, regulatory challenges, and the opportunities facing outdoor hospitality operators in the Southwest.
Whether you’re managing a campground, developing a new glamping destination, or navigating trends in the RV space, this episode offers timely insights to help you adapt, innovate, and lead in a rapidly evolving industry.
June 25th Episode Recap
In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, a new focus for the Week 4 show was introduced, shifting away from the RV industry to concentrate on marketing, AI, and technology. Host Brian Searl, CEO of Insider Perks and Modern Campground, opened the show by explaining this new direction and the reshuffling of some recurring guests. He noted that Phil from RVDA of America and Eleonore from RVDA of Canada would now appear on the Week 1 show, which covers data, trends, and analytics.
Greg Emmert, the founder of Verio Outdoor Hospitality Consulting, was introduced by Brian, who joked that he was kept on the panel out of pity. Greg then introduced himself and his consulting firm, which helps clients build their operations “strategically and with soul.” He and Brian also made light of the new website Brian’s team is building for his company.
Kurtis Wilkins, a new recurring guest from Rjourney RV Resorts and Advanced Outdoor Management, was welcomed to the show. He clarified that he goes by “Kurtis” professionally to distinguish himself from another “Kurtis” in his office. He explained that his company has 41 branded locations and over 12,000 RV pads, with a focus on front-end sales and the monetization of camping.
Sam Dagenhard, the founder and CEO of Campfire Ranch, was introduced as a special guest. He described his company as an outdoor hospitality brand based in Gunnison, Colorado, which is building a collection of properties with a focus on “subscale” locations of 30 rooms or less. He said this allows for a high-touch, intimate experience where they can know guests by name.
He also stated that his company offers a range of experiences from camping to backcountry trips, always located near prime outdoor recreation spots. Sam later revealed that he grew up RVing and camping and began putting his ideas on paper after moving to Los Angeles, where he found himself limited by state park and national forest campgrounds. He started organizing large, informal group camping trips to places like Joshua Tree, which inspired him to design an ideal campground for his generation. He took a leap in 2019, leaving his job in sports marketing at Red Bull to find his first location, intending to build a brand that would eventually span coast to coast and offer a unique, one-of-a-kind experience.
The discussion began with a topic brought up by Kurtis Wilkins, who spoke about the transition from traditional SEO to what his team is calling “AEO,” or AI Engine Optimization. He noted that 13% of search traffic had recently been diverted away from Google, which is a significant change being discussed in many marketing departments.
Brian Searl responded by sharing his belief that traditional SEO is “dead” because as AI gets smarter, it will be impossible to “trick” Google. He argued that the new focus should be on providing valuable content that AI systems can easily understand. He then asked Sam Dagenhard about his recent experience with a website redesign and SEO report.
Sam said that in the beginning, SEO was all about inserting keywords into copy, which felt “wonky.” He has now learned that other factors like speed and security also play a role. He explained that his company is still young, and their initial website on Squarespace was a prototype for a 17-site campground where SEO happened “by accident.” As his company has grown, they are now transitioning to a more robust website and are in the copywriting phase. He found it interesting to see how much AI was already picking up about his business during a brand discovery audit. He believes it is crucial for his internal team to write the website copy to maintain the authentic, high-touch relationship they have with guests.
Kurtis Wilkins agreed with Sam’s starting point, acknowledging that his experience with SEO 10 years ago was the same. He said that good SEO has always been about providing what Google wants and doing it in a structured way. He emphasized the importance of localized content and using backlinks from community groups like the Boy Scouts to build relevance. He noted that his current focus is on creating structured, targeted information, localized to the community and the user searching for it, regardless of their location. He expressed a desire to hear more from Brian on this.
Greg Emmert offered a historical perspective on SEO, recalling his first website when people used Yahoo and a “web crawler” for search results. He admitted that he learned little about SEO and was more focused on daily operations like plunging toilets. He stated that his new website, built by Brian’s team, is being tailored for “LLM” (Large Language Model) searches, which he called “AEO,” a term he admitted to stealing from Kurtis. He explained that he is now focused on conversational, narrative-style writing that sounds like he is speaking, which he sees as the future of search. He also mentioned his recent experience with a different consulting company, noting how quickly the SEO landscape has changed in just two years.
Brian Searl added to the discussion, emphasizing that everyday people don’t need to be SEO experts but should know enough to ask the right questions of their marketing partners. He suggested using tools like ChatGPT to learn the basics. He reinforced the idea that Google has always wanted websites to write for the user, and providing valuable, easy-to-understand content is key. He cited an example of a client’s property in Arizona, Verde Ranch RV Resort, where a page about bicycle rentals could help them win search queries from users and AI systems looking for that specific amenity in the area. He stressed that a page dedicated to a specific offering is far more powerful than a simple bullet point on an amenities list.
Kurtis Wilkins agreed with Brian’s point about providing value, stating that Google’s core function is to be a good recommender for its users. He also mentioned that RV parks are “many businesses in one business,” and each component, from waterparks to gift shops, needs to be optimized for search. He added that “social proof” from reviews and listings also plays an increasingly important role. Brian agreed, highlighting that brand building, press releases, and social media conversations are crucial signals that AI uses to understand a business.
Brian then invited Sam to elaborate on how Campfire Ranch got started. Sam explained his lifelong love for the outdoors, starting with RVing with his family. After moving to LA for a career in sports marketing with Red Bull, he felt a gap in the market for a campground designed for his generation. He started organizing group camping trips where he would rent and set up all the gear for friends, realizing the barrier to entry for camping was the equipment itself.
This led to his business model, which focuses on providing gear and equipment. He also emphasized the importance of building community, noting he loves when guests line up for the bathroom because it encourages them to talk and make friends. He said that this high-touch approach has also led to partnerships with manufacturers like North Face who provide gear for rentals. He stated that Campfire Ranch is an “RV-free” campground, focusing on tent, car, and van camping.
Greg Emmert praised Sam’s business model, calling it “underserved” and noting that car camping is on the rise. He commended Sam’s courage in creating a business that is different from the typical RV park model. Kurtis Wilkins added that while he loves tent campers, many local governments and municipalities prevent RV parks from offering tent camping or “van camping.” Sam replied that Campfire Ranch’s walk-in tent sites are priced at a premium because they offer the best views, proving that if you cater to tent campers and make them feel important, they will come. He said that this intentional design choice comes from understanding what customers want and that it is a great reality check against assumptions.
Brian Searl concluded the main discussion by highlighting the difference between a business owner and an entrepreneur, noting the courage it takes to pursue a niche like Sam has. With the hour approaching, the panelists prepared to wrap up. Brian extended an invitation to Sam to become a recurring guest on the show, which Sam accepted. The show ended with Brian encouraging the audience to connect with Sam at Campfire Ranch, Kurtis at Rjourney, and Greg at his new consulting company, Verio. The group signed off, mentioning the upcoming Outwired podcast to discuss credit card fraud and heat safety.
About MC Fireside Chats
MC Fireside Chats is a live podcast experience dedicated to the outdoor hospitality and outdoor recreation industries. Hosted by Brian Searl, founder and CEO of Insider Perks and Modern Campground, the show offers engaging discussions with industry leaders, innovators, and experts shaping the future of camping, RVing, glamping, and outdoor recreation.
Airing every Wednesday at 2 p.m. (ET), the show follows a structured weekly theme to deliver deep dives into the most relevant topics:
- Week 1: Industry Trends & Insights
- Week 2: Enhancing Guest Experience
- Week 3: Business Operations & Management
- Week 4: RV Industry, Outdoor Recreation & Activities
Each episode features a panel of recurring guests, complemented by 1–2 rotating special guests, including industry analysts, campground owners, technology providers, sustainability advocates, and more. Whether exploring the latest market trends or innovative guest experience strategies, MC Fireside Chats delivers thought-provoking insights for professionals and enthusiasts across the outdoor recreation spectrum.
To explore previous episodes of MC Fireside Chats, visit: moderncampground.com/mc-fireside-chats.