MC Fireside Chats – October 9th, 2024

Episode Summary

The October 9, 2024, episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, featured guests Chris Jeub and Miguel Huerta, diving into a deep discussion about the Glamping Show and the broader outdoor hospitality industry. The conversation began with a light introduction, as Brian humorously shared his struggle with his camera setup before diving into the key topic: a recap of the recent Glamping Show in Aurora, Colorado. Both Chris and Miguel had attended, and they shared insights from their experiences at the show. The Glamping Show was described as an increasingly international event, with a notable rise in attendees from Latin America, which Miguel emphasized. He pointed out that many attendees were new to the industry, eager to learn the ropes of glamping operations. Miguel noted how the show’s exhibition space had grown, with more exhibitors and better facilities, despite the cold weather, which the event organizers had cleverly mitigated with enclosed walls for the tents. A key part of the conversation revolved around the attendees and their needs. Miguel highlighted how many people attending the show were industry rookies, looking to break into the glamping space. He also touched on the demand for more tailored education for those already running operations. Chris agreed, suggesting that the show could focus more on experienced operators and provide advanced content beyond the basics. He also noted the challenge of attendees who may feel the need to attend once but not return unless there’s fresh, advanced material. Marketing became a central theme, with Brian, Chris, and Miguel discussing its critical role in running a successful glamping business. Brian emphasized the importance of understanding the target audience, even before acquiring land or building accommodations. Marketing, in his view, is essential from the very start, shaping the success of a glamping operation. He pointed out that simply building accommodations is no longer enough in a post-COVID market where consumers have more choices. The panel agreed that marketing needs to be an ongoing, adaptable process. Miguel expanded on this by stressing that marketing is not just about spending money but about making smart, strategic investments. He shared data from Scott Bahr’s research, noting that while revenue in the glamping industry grew by 23% year-over-year, expenses rose by 39%, largely driven by marketing costs. He advised that operators must be prepared to allocate a significant portion of their revenue—up to 10%—for marketing efforts, including digital channels, which he noted had seen a decline in investment as operators sought alternative approaches like public relations and sponsorships. Chris contributed his perspective as a hands-on operator, explaining that his marketing strategy has shifted as his operation has evolved. He talked about the need to balance expectations with offerings, ensuring that guests receive what they anticipate based on the marketing they see. He emphasized that marketing should align with the reality of the experience offered, whether it’s luxury or a more rustic glamping experience. Chris also highlighted how direct bookings have become increasingly important, as they offer a better connection with guests and help reduce reliance on platforms like Airbnb. The conversation then turned toward the future of the Glamping Show itself. Both Chris and Miguel expressed excitement about its continued growth but emphasized the need for the event to evolve. They discussed the potential for the show to offer more niche content for seasoned operators, including those looking to expand or refine their operations. Miguel suggested that regional meetups and more targeted educational sessions could be beneficial for the industry, particularly as glamping becomes more sophisticated and segmented. As the discussion wrapped up, Miguel shared insights into the Latin American market, noting that WhatsApp plays a crucial role in managing bookings and communication with guests. He also touched on the unique challenges of running glamping sites in more remote locations, where maintenance costs and logistical issues can be higher. Brian closed the conversation by returning to the theme of creativity in marketing and operations. He reiterated that operators must continue to think strategically, not just in terms of immediate returns but long-term sustainability. He encouraged the use of new technologies, like AI, to optimize marketing efforts and reach the right audience. Miguel agreed, noting how tools like TikTok have dramatically shifted the landscape of digital marketing, with viral videos helping to drive significant traffic to glamping sites. In summary, the episode offered a thorough exploration of the Glamping Show and the evolving needs of the outdoor hospitality industry, with a particular focus on marketing strategies, the importance of understanding guest demographics, and the growing sophistication of glamping operations.

Recurring Guests

Chris Jeub

Owner

Monument Glamping

Miguel Huerta

CEO

Nantli Living

Special Guests

Episode Transcript

This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show featuring conversations with thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and outdoor hospitality experts who share their insights to help your business succeed. Hosted by Brian Searle, the founder and CEO of Insider Perks, empowered by insights from Modern Campground, the most innovative news source in the industry.

Brian Searl:

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. We’ll see this little setup gizmo thing I have going on here works. I’m trying to build a studio and it’s half in half out, but I was moving my camera during the intro and I don’t know. Well, either way, left, right, up, down. I’m ugly, but hopefully I’m a little bit less ugly. Boarding with like the mic covering half my face like this. I think that works out well. So. Welcome everybody to another episode we’re gonna talk about glamping for two weeks in a row here We just came off the glamping show saw both Chris and Miguel there I think we have a few people missing who are maybe just Hopefully they didn’t like get lost and get diverted to a different destination haven’t found their way home on the plane from last year as My doorbell rings downstairs and my Yorkie runs down because that’s great timing in the middle beginning of the show the UPS guy comes so let’s I think I think let’s start talking about the glamping show right because we did a We did talk about this obviously on our live show last week, which both of you guys were on. We were inside the beautiful F Dumb’s tent. We were talking a lot about international glamping. We had people from the Fiji islands and you know, obviously Miguel’s in Mexico and Chris is the only token American.

Chris Jeub:

I was the only American on the whole panel.

Brian Searl:

Mike Harrison was there. He was an American. I’m like, I’ve left, right. But, uh, still an American. So

Chris Jeub:

We’re an international group of people.

Brian Searl:

We had a good show. We had like, it was a lot of good conversation about that. But I think that we could probably spend a little bit more time about like the glamping show specifically, uh, talking about it briefly. And then, you know, given that we just have us two, I think maybe we are us three, right together. Um, maybe we dive into a little bit about marketing. Cause we never talk about that. And just some of the ways that because I think that, you know, one of the takeaways that I have and and you know, well, both of you know that I’m never like one to talk about our products or our services or what we do from a marketing perspective, but I still think it’s a valuable conversation to have once in a while about marketing in general. And I think that, you know, I got I had a call with Jessica, the new lady from Emerald, who purchased the show yesterday. And she was just talking to me about, you know, we’re having the conversations that everybody knows, right? Nothing like private, just that there’s a lot of new people who come to the glamping show every year. And sometimes a majority of those people don’t come back, not because the glamping show isn’t good. But because they’ve been there once they’ve seen the accommodations and like, honestly, you’re not buying a $200,000 accommodation every year, right? So there’s no need to do that the way it is currently constructed. But so for all those new people there who are coming, they were looking to start businesses. you know, looking at the land, they’re looking at real estate, they’ve researched all this stuff. And then maybe we’ll talk through some of that research process. Maybe that’s a good kind of topic for the show to that, you know, Chris, as you get started up, Miguel, as you get started up, kind of, what are the things you need to think of that will lead us to marketing to the like, you need to understand your demographic, you need to have a plan for all this stuff, you need to understand who your target market is. really before you start building, or even sometimes before you buy land. But before we get there, let’s talk about the glamping show. I know we talked about this briefly, but just for the people who didn’t catch our show last week, or I don’t know, the last five minutes of it were cut off, which is all Greg Emmert missing at the end. So we got the important stuff in if Greg’s watching. But so let’s start with you, Miguel. Obviously, You know, Denver, Colorado, Aurora, Colorado, 20 minutes east of Denver, uh, long, longer travel for you and really well for me too. Right. But longer travel for you coming from Mexico than it is for Chris, who.

Chris Jeub:

Yeah, we got the North American, uh, right, right here. We’ve got Canada and America and Mexico right here in the room.

Brian Searl:

I think we should change the name to North Mexico though. I like that sound better. What do you think Miguel?

Miguel Huerta:

No, well, I think that the travel thing is not an issue because there are direct flights to Denver.

Brian Searl:

And we can avoid the whole North Mexico issue, Chris. But OK, sorry.

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but like, let’s call it the Americas. And at the end, the name of the show is Lamping Show Americas. So I think that that’s how we’ll link everything up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But OK, so in my case, I mean, traveling is not an issue. And I think that we can see that just based on the number of Latinos that attend the Grampian shows. Every year it’s growing. Go ahead.

Brian Searl:

No, please continue. I’m sorry. I was just gonna I was just gonna agree with you Like that was to me like we see those international travelers every year at the show But it feels like and it doesn’t just feel like it is it keeps growing. It keeps growing It keeps growing like you had your contingent with you two years ago that you brought and Probably there were other people there from other countries last year that maybe I didn’t meet but it just felt like it was much bigger this year

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah, and my point is that the attendance keeps on growing. I think that one of the novelties in the Glamping show was this extended hall where we have at least 20 exhibitors that we will put in there. And I think that it was a nice touch because it had like, it was, it had tent, sorry, walls. So like the wind or especially on Tuesday, it was pretty cold. So, so it was a little bit better for everyone. Um, I think that the glamping show, and I think, uh, and I take this from my wife, which it was her, uh, her first lamp in show. She told me that, um, that these, they were, uh, rookies, you know, or that they were thinking about entering into the industry. Um, sadly this year, I, I got so caught up with so many people wanting to talk and share their products in Latin America or Mexico, that I wasn’t able to attend the conferences at all. But last year, I met a couple of glamping owners and operators in the States. But I think that potentially one of the evolutions of the glamping show is to have like these arena meetups where like we people that we are getting our hands dirty with our properties, there are so many things that we need to learn, you know. So sadly, the Glamping show, it’s Two days, although, I mean, sure, like the first day or let’s call it day zero. Day zero is for rookies and people thinking about entering into the industry. And then day one and two, everything happens so fast, especially on the first day, that on the second day, you are very tired. People have to take a flight back home. So I even didn’t say bye to you, Brian, and Lisa.

Brian Searl:

I had to leave. I had booked a six o’clock flight, so we left at like 310. We had to throw our booth in the back of the van.

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah. But anyway, at the end, I think that the show is growing. I think to me, this is the most international show I’ve ever been part of. And I took to the new ownership of the Lampin show. And I mean, there’s some potential for more international shows. I think that the original part is critical. I just complete this census for the whole North America region where I can we found out and I can give you the numbers right now But like we just found out how many glampings are in the US in Canada in Mexico Colombia Peru and the industry grips on growing but And I’m gonna tie it to our topic for today, which is marketing What I told every person that I met, because they were like very excited, like, look, you have this beautiful land. And then like, I’m going to have like this ancient, like this old lady, you know, like my abuelita cooking for people and what’s not. And people are going to love it. And the thing that I told them is, dude, you’re entering into a business where marketing is critical. It potentially will be your largest expense. And if you don’t do it right, you’re going to get stuck with that investment, that there’s a ticking clock in the back of your head, because at the end, most of the tents, they have a life expectancy, you know, it’s not like a hotel that I know that I can live in there for three months without doing any maintenance to it. So marketing is the holy grail and the most important thing in our industry. But I know. What about you, Chris? What do you think about it?

Brian Searl:

I want to talk about what you’re saying just briefly for a second, because I want to give Chris a chance to give us all his thoughts about the show and then lead up and then talk about some of the ways that the important things that he got started that led him to marketing. But I think, especially now, marketing is critical. And we’ve talked about, this is like the Wi-Fi discussion in campgrounds for me. And certainly it happens in glamping resorts too. you know, we’ve had the same and we talked a little bit about education with Emerald, both at the show and everywhere else. And they’ve already like they didn’t need my opinion, they already know that the education not necessarily can be better, but can be more comprehensive and more advanced and more thorough and for more different types of people, right than just the beginners, if that makes sense. And so, but but I think that Like, it’s the same argument as Wi-Fi, just going back to what I was saying. You’ve heard that thing, if you’ve been to any campground conference in the last 15 years, there’s a session on why you need Wi-Fi. If you don’t know you need Wi-Fi now, like, you’re not gonna listen in year 16 or year 17, right? Like at some point, you’ve got to create some kind of different education or message or the narrative has to flip or you’ve got to bring data from Scott Barr out and say, like, you know, this is stats that have changed. We’ve seen an increase in the need for X service product, whatever. And so I think that’s what’s the difference in my mind that we’ll eventually get to here in this conversation with marketing is Marketing’s always been necessary. It’s changed over the years, how you do it, how you execute it, where you put it, whether it’s print or digital or online or social media or whatever the medium is, right? But as we head into whatever we’re heading into now with inflation and an economy that is going down and to where you can’t just, like you could even three years ago during COVID, just open up a glamping resort and boom, everybody’s there, right? Not all of us can take the easy path like Chris did. Oh no, I’m just kidding.

Chris Jeub:

The good old days, the good old days.

Brian Searl:

But like, like now it’s, it’s different. Now you really have to pay attention to this stuff because that marketing and the way you, you know, obviously your products and services matter. Obviously what kind of accommodations you purchase matter. Obviously the service that you have and whether it’s luxury or middle-class or, you know, more affordable type accommodations or like all of that stuff matters to the perception of the guest. But you can’t get them through your virtual front door, so to speak, unless you’re telling them what you are, what you offer, what your story is. And so obviously marketing is more than that, but it begins with the, who am I? What am I offering to you? And why am I different? And the why am I different piece matter less three years ago than it does today. But now they have a choice. And we’ve seen that on the RV park side in the data to that the RV park searches are going down. We just released a report last week with modern campground. RV park searches are going down in almost every single state, but best RV park is going up. So they’re being more selective. So that’s kind of and we’ll get into that.

Chris Jeub:

But Chris, so yeah, well, yeah, let me talk about the but the Yeah, the show the show I go to every year. It’s only an hour away from me. So so I go I’ve been going this is I think my fifth one, fourth one, something like that. But that’s how long I’ve been in glamping. Once I got into glamping, I was all over this. Most people don’t realize that there’s really only two Shows in the entire world that’s specifically for glamping a lot of camp campground rvs hospitality galore Hotels every tons of conferences like that but as far as an expo where you can actually go and see Units and get taught about glamping. There’s ours here in in colorado and then in the UK. And our panel was interesting. There were a couple that go to the UK one every year, and they were comparing us to them. It made us look pretty good, actually. So we’re kind of talking about how the glamping show can get better. You should be clear.

Brian Searl:

It’s just stunning, right? I mean, we all know how talented David is and his team is, but he didn’t come into glamping, as far as from my knowledge, with that glamping background. He came from his Abilities Expo. He had lots of trade show experience, all that kind of stuff, right? But that’s just makes it even more impressive to me, the machine that he’s built.

Chris Jeub:

Yeah, it’s a great show. And if the content has become repetitory, maybe it’s because it’s just because, you know, we’re growing up and these are just growing pains. You know, we’ve got to talk about new stuff. We’ve got to keep it’s such a dynamic field that I kind of applaud David and Ruben and what they’ve done to the whole show, because I learn something new every year. You mentioned Scott Baer. I think his speech is the best of all of them, because it’s all about new. It’s all about the data that’s coming, the research. We have to be research-driven and follow that research. I’m one of those that have skipped out on a lot of the sessions because I just know what they’re gonna say. And maybe that’s what you said, Jessica, I didn’t get a chance to meet Jessica. I didn’t even know that they sold the place, sold the show. I didn’t know that until halfway through the show and I was like, oh, there’s a new owner. I just got done talking to David and he didn’t even mention it. So that’s interesting. I’ve always thought that the show, It needs to zero in on who their avatar is and their avatar is really the the the the the landowner who is trying to start a glamping operation. And that’s that’s who they’re they’re really at. There’s a whole bunch of vendors. There’s a whole bunch of experts and people who have been down the road and and of and leaders of organizations like Miguel. And we’re all serving that avatar. And and that’s kind of who I try to try to touch with my glamping guy arm of my business. You know, I have my monument glamping operation here. I’m in my home office. We talked about this right before we press record, but this is my home office. It’s on my property. I’ve got this window. Out of this window is actually my glamping operation. I have eight units. I’m permitted for 12. I’ve got development going on. I just took down one, two, because we’re going to replace it with a hard sided structure. I’ve got all of these mechanisms going for monument glamping. But then also glamping guy is what I was going to the glamping show to speak. I gave two speeches out in the expo there. And I’m really talking to landowners and people who have a piece of property in their family. They don’t have to do it. They’ve got a large. property the country and they would love to know they are they already have some sort of hospitality my own campground or something but they know that glamping is a cool thing how do i get into it and and that’s what they come bright and bushy tail with their minds wide open ready to learn and that’s what i think the glamping show can amp that part up What the part that they have on is that there’s a lot of people ready to sell, sell to them. And, and so the lot of money going through there, as far as. Of course the venues, but all the services and stuff. I saw the expo. Well, the expo grew like 50%. Didn’t it, Brian? I mean, it’s like they got a whole new thing.

Brian Searl:

Yeah. It was a lot of vendors last year and maybe 200 this year, but there was no space in the outdoor space.

Chris Jeub:

Yeah. Yeah. Every, there was, there was so crowded. Remember how white duck used to take up a fourth of the whole place. And now white does kind of pushed off to the, I have a speech over the white duck tents and it’s like, that’s now that’s exciting. Uh, but, but now let’s lift that, that educational burden that the, that the, that the American glamping association or the glamping show could service. is exciting. And I think that’s where there’s a lack there. We’ve got to teach this market how to do what we’re doing. And that’s really what I do is I try to I try to give what I wished I had five years ago when I got into it. I wish I had a whole curriculum to follow and a whole, I knew these common practices in the glamping world. Those things are coming into place and that’s an exciting time to be involved in not only glamping itself, but also kind of the industry of glamping.

Brian Searl:

Well, I mean, I think that what you’re talking about is absolutely correct, right? Like in Jessica from Emerald and the team already knows this, right? But we talked about it very briefly yesterday. And I think it’s also one of the most largest challenges that any conference is going to face is the educational curriculum, right? And if you look at like, we’ve been going to trade shows for 15 years on the campground and RV park side and the education, in my opinion, and most of those conferences is still lacking today. And some of that is because of a lack of speakers or a lack of speakers who are willing to talk for free, right, or a lack of budget to pay paid speakers. But it’s also a, you know, it’s so hard to liaison, like I did this during COVID, right? Like we started a virtual conference series, where we produce the national Canadian show, and a couple other shows like virtually when everything was shut down and nobody could get together. It was like 2000, I don’t know, early 2021, but late 2020, right? And that was the hardest part for us. Like we put together a lineup of, I think, amazing education that was 45 different sessions and so many different speakers about the topics that we hadn’t seen at shows before, both beginner and middle tier and advanced. But the logistics of all that, I mean, that was probably the thing that sucked up the most amount of my time. And the people who were working with us on that, right? Cara from the Canadian Camping Association, who’s used to host the show and is a guest once in a while. Just the back and forth, the dialogue, the what do you want to talk about? What do you want to speak about? Well, that’s good. And so that gets lost in the fact that a lot of these organizations don’t have the staff or the time necessary. to plan, to research, to recruit, to talk about. And so what you end up seeing, I think, is the best effort that some of these people can give. And this isn’t a criticism, right? This is the best effort that their resources are able to give. And sometimes that’s a This person has spoken four times before. I know they’re going to be a good speaker. I know people pay attention to them. I know they give valuable advice. I also know they’re probably going to say the same thing they said last year, but there’s new people with new land and new developments. And so that’s going to be maybe okay for my conference, right? And so I think where the opportunity, like you said, Chris, is, is to expand into this new, almost new niches, right? We’ve got, like, David did a wonderful job, like you’re talking about, of bringing exhibitors together of people who exhibit, who want to sell you stuff, which is great. We need that as a product or a service, both for accommodations and for, you know, everything else, like reservation software and stuff like that, accounting and lawyers and everything else. But the niches of, like, bringing the people back who have already been to the show is one side that we’ll talk about in a second, but to your aspect, there’s different content that someone needs when they already have a piece of land, or when they’ve purchased a land piece of land, versus when they’ve purchased a land and have permitting and now need, you know, like accommodation help, or they need marketing help, or they need to pick their software, or they’ve got Two tents and they’re looking to expand to ten and now and so that’s a different education piece that everybody needs and I think that well, I hope that Emerald will be willing to plan some of that stuff so that we can have three thousand or four thousand or five thousand

Chris Jeub:

Well, it’s almost like, because I’ve been down this road before where the organization tries to teach or tries to guide too much too. It’s like there’s a market of competitors who are actually doing a better job than an organization could do. And I speak from experience. I used to be involved in a, this is my teaching world, is an academic speech and debate league who who got themselves in a lot of trouble because they tried to teach how to do academic speech debate. And we pulled the plug totally. And it’s like it’s like when we the the the job of an organization like a leading organization is really to create that expo and make they make that expo the best event of the year. Everybody goes to it. I know a lot of people who are in the glamping who just don’t go to the expo. And I’m like, why not? I mean, this is where all of the industry gurus come together and we have a ball, Taco Tuesday is just so much fun.

Brian Searl:

Maybe they’re not ready for that yet, right? Or they think they’re not ready for it because they don’t understand that there’s also speakers like you who are at White Ducks Area talking about things like this, right? I want you to finish. But I think that where I’m coming from on my side and why I’m making this argument is in the campground industry, the association who has the members and the like, it’s like the American Glamping Association and David all in one from the campground side, right? So I think you’re right from a David perspective that I think maybe I don’t want to say his wheelhouse is the expo, right? But it is. Whereas the AGA would be better programmers. Is that fair? I don’t know for what you’re saying, but I think the association is better suited to program than perhaps an expo vendor or expo.

Chris Jeub:

You understand, you know, I think to most people they seem in the same thing. American Galapagos Association, the Galapagos of America, it’s almost like they’re merged. They’re so closely related that people don’t realize they’re two separate entities. And they work together so well, too. So I think this is kind of an interesting side point. But but having a having an expo or having I say the show having the show be a place where all the minds of of the industry come together and and share what they they know best is. It’s exciting to me. Uh, and, and if I don’t know if the, I don’t know if the powers that be will be listening to us or not, but, but it’s like, if, if, uh, if, uh, we’re going to kind of like a conference that you go to like, uh, like comic con or something like that, or, or, um, I, I go to these conferences and I like the ones that just pump me up and get me so excited about the business that I’m in. Um, and, uh, and I might veer off and do things my way. but that’s okay everyone loves that diversity and loves that ingenuity in the market wants to keep that. What’s that what if and what i would warn an organization because i’ve seen it we’ve all seen this in organizations if the organization tries to say But this is the pure way of doing glamping. That would be disappointing. That would be disappointing. Well, I kind of get that flavor. There was one. I don’t.

Brian Searl:

Yeah, we went through that whole thing with Ojai that was RVIC years ago, tried to put out a standards for RV parks, right? The intention is good. What ends up happening is not.

Chris Jeub:

Yeah, yeah, right, right. I agree. I think the glamping show is going to continue to be awesome for the nearest future. We’ll see what Emerald comes up with.

Brian Searl:

Go ahead, Miguel. Sorry.

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah. I love that you mentioned Scott Barr’s work. I think that that gives us a good guide on what’s going on with the industry. If you let me, I would like to to provide to our audience a couple of insights. For example, the revenue this year for all the glamping sites that were part of the survey compared to last year, it grew almost 23%, but their expenses grew almost 39%. So again, it is showing us how it is more expensive to run the business. And I’m pretty sure that if we break down the cost, it has to do something with the marketing, you know? The other thing is that the ADR, it only grew 8.6%. The ADR is the average daily rate, how much you charge per night, per room, which I think that it’s, I mean, even though that the Lamping, it’s a new lodging category, I think that those huge growths that we saw before, I mean, they’re not in there as much, you know. The other thing that it was very interesting is that At least 70% of the operators that were part of the survey, they have been in the business for a little bit over two years. So going back to, okay, like people, they go once we go on the show and why they’re not coming back. I think that we have to cater and I include myself, but we have to cater the content. to these people that they say, OK, yeah, maybe when I started my glamping operation, going to the glamping show, it was a great investment. But then going back every year, not as much because I took as much knowledge as I could, you know. The other thing that it is very interesting is that, of course, like every year funding, it’s the main barrier for the industry. But the second one, barriers to growth. Number one, financing, which is funding. Then local ordinances and regulations, which I think that it has decreased a little bit because I think that municipalities, they already know what LAMPing is, so it’s easier to get the permits. And then it is staffing, which is pretty interesting because at the end, Since we’re charging premium, I think that the staffing is very important. And then on the other side, resources needed. Financing is number one, and then number two is marketing. And I think that, and I’ve seen this in Mexico, at least in Mexico, in the last, I will say five months, at least six glamping sites have come my way, like, hey, I’m selling my business because I didn’t get the promised results, you know. And that’s why I keep on telling people, like, the first thing that you need to understand is that you’re in the marketing industry. And that starts with the type of tent that I’m going to set up. That starts with the location where I will be running my business. And then, OK, at the end, the industry is growing quite a bit. So, for example, from my data, there are a little bit over 2100 glamping sites in the US alone. you know. So that number is quite interesting because at the end, I wonder how many of those are making a profit because at the end, based on the Scott Barr’s numbers, it says that the average glamping site, your margin on revenue it’s a little bit over 30%, which I think that it’s a healthy margin. You said 30%? When you take into consideration the cost of acquisition for the land, the cost of the tents, that initial setup, it is crazy. But yeah, at the end, I think that… Sorry, you said 30% because I didn’t get a chance to attend the session. How the glamping show will grow, it will be with internationalization. Catering to us guys that have an operation up and running like Chris has which I’m gonna put him on the spot But next year, I hope that he lets me stay in his lamping side at least one night just to get a bite for it I’ll bring some tequila bottles along with me So at the end, I think that how I’m seeing the industry is that we’re maturing and that’s all of us. That will be quite interesting because at the end, it’s like any demographic, you know, like you see these new kids, me included, you know, I remember in 2021, I was very excited and then like the industry was so small that now like fast forward four years or three years after, I mean, I get along with everybody and they know me, I know them. But my point is that our needs are changing. You know, like the sun and times are changing, you know, so it will be very interesting. And marketing, it is the most important thing if you want to have a healthy and stable business, which is something that I don’t think that right now people are taking into consideration because, of course, it is nice that in the conferences they say, OK, yeah, like we’re going to have this person talk about nice experiences and whatnot. But, OK, I know that Brian, he’s a numbers guy like I am. And I know that, Chris, you are as well. At the end, we have that in common. But for example, the first thing that I tell people is be prepared to spend at least 10% of your revenue on marketing. And that only goes to the platforms, Facebook, Google, TikTok, whatever. And if you’re not prepared for that, that’s when you crash and burn.

Brian Searl:

Yeah, and you guys can hear me okay, right? I don’t know if you guys can hear me. Um, I wasn’t sure because I was, I asked Miguel, was that 30% Miguel? Can you hear me? That Scott Baer said was the margin, the margin. Yeah. Yeah. 30%. Okay. I was just making sure I didn’t, you know, if you said three or 30, I hadn’t heard you the first time. Um, yeah, like, I mean, I think from my perspective, like everything is marketing, just like you said, right? Like from the moment you decide that you are going to potentially possibly purchase a piece of land and maybe have glamping on it, everything is marketing. Uh, and it’s, you know, I, I have this piece of land, it’s understanding how the market is going to view that piece of land. Where is it? How accessible is it? What is it near? Why would people come stay there? Does it have a good view? Does it have the ability to put, you know, facilities and buildings on it? How much is it going to cost? What’s it going to look like when it’s done? How do I get my stat like all that stuff is everything is marketing every every way that people perceive your property, or you or your hospitality or your service or your attitude or everything is marketing, right? No, that’s all not accounting for your 10% stuff. But when you say that marketing is the most important thing, it is from the day that you decide to do that. And then it funnels into, well, right now I’ve decided that my, not even bought my land yet in my mind, right? But I’ve decided that this might be a good spot for glamping. Who is my demographic? Are they going to come from a city that’s 10 minutes away or two hours away? Are they old? Are they young? Are they male? Are they female? Are they right? Like, what am I going to specialize in? What’s my niche? Are they families with kids? Are they older couples that are luxury demographic that don’t want any noise and from kids? Do I need amenities? Do I need swimming pools? Do I need a concierge? You got to figure all that stuff out. You got to figure out and again, it’s not that there’s a code that you have to crack that says, I got it. This is it. I have my whole plan. I know exactly how it’s going to go and it’s never going to deviate. It’s going to be perfect, right? But you have to at least have an idea of, I think, and then look at people like Scott Baer, who can help you do feasibility studies too, and just kind of understand that this is my starting point. I don’t know, but I have a pretty good idea that if I buy this piece of land and put it here, not only is it financially feasible for me to build a glamping site, but it’s financially feasible for me to attract the audience that I’d like to attract, because there’s enough of them that will probably come here. Fair?

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah, no, and I completely agree with it because, you know what, like I’ve been meeting so many persons that have told me like, Miguel, I want to get into the glamping industry because I have land. And what I’ve told them is that sadly, land for glampings is a commodity, you know, because sure, like in your head, you might think that that’s like the correct spot, you know. And for example, in my case, in our case, in my company, Nantli Living, we own four glamping sites, but none of those are in the south of Mexico, you know, which you will say, okay, but that’s where most tourists are, you know. And that is because at least the current glampers, the people that go to our glamping sites, they’re not international people. We cannot talk with You know, like those wholesalers, international wholesalers that will put one plane into a property because there are no glamping sites that can fulfill that demand. Running the operation is hard. So at the end, if you’re in the middle of the jungle, your maintenance costs take off. So at the end, if you understand where you’re standing, That will give you so much flexibility that, for example, in my case, I’m impressed by the most popular glamping sites in the U.S. You know, I think that there’s like a strawberry farm, which I mean, that that’s amazing, you know. But I think that, Chris, and I thank you for this, because I never talk about the buyer persona for the glamping show. And I think that that’s critical, because the data is telling you something different. You’re catering to a fourth of the people that responded to the survey, which are the newcomers. But what about the rest of them? It’s a larger number. So at the end, there are a lot. And the thing that I love about the industry is that it is, at the moment, mom and pop own and run. But I am already seeing how a couple of companies are coming up and they’re going to consolidate the market, especially like in the US. So yeah, I’m just maturing a lot.

Brian Searl:

You can hit all those demographics though, right? Like you can hit all the different demographics, but again, that’s the planning and sorry, I want to let you finish it. You can hit all those demographics, but it’s a question of like, How do I do that in a way that causes people to want to spend $1,500 to fly here $200 a night to stay in a hotel, all the food, all the beverages, all the meals, all the everything like that, right? Because that was a much easier sell 10 years ago, when you had to Google and there was very little information about glamping online. Now there’s way more information about Google or glamping online, but even five years ago, you still had to go to Google and search and read.

Chris Jeub:

And there was no glamping guy five years ago.

Brian Searl:

I was going to reference chat GBT, but obviously the glamping guy is much better than that. Um, but like, but either way, right, there was no resource there was, and now there is, and now you can go to chat GBT and type in a question and say, and again, that’s not that you can get all the answers from ChatGBT, that this is the Bible that you should always follow, but it’s a starting point and it’s enough to say like, what you need to program for is the experts who have done it who aren’t going to be coming out of their voices, their expertise, their experience aren’t coming out of ChatGBT. The information might be, but it’s a whole different thing to hear it from somebody who’s actually done it in person.

Chris Jeub:

Yeah, I’d like to see more of those people up on the stage. People who are actually like glamping operators. We see a lot of people who are capital lenders, industry leaders, or people who have come from the RV industry and the camping industry, but really people who are checking people in every day and and and who are successes like bingo was it was it was a big no. I forget his last name out and open sky, I mean I kind of eat his stuff up and and Irene out in Michigan. Those, those are people who are they build something. And then now they’re kind of surprised themselves. It’s like, oh, it works. And people like it. People like my place and stuff. And in a way, I guess I’m there too. I’m growing my property. And I think that’s why people like what I have to say, because I’m not just making it up. I mean, this is real life that’s going on.

Brian Searl:

And I don’t want to don’t take this as an insult toward anybody, right. But it’s, it’s almost like short term rentals. We went through this huge era and glamping kind of ended and coincided with it during COVID where money was so cheap, where you could just buy a piece of land and set up a glamping tent and you were successful.

Chris Jeub:

And marketing was easy and marketing, right? Marketing was, you just put your stuff on Airbnb and people came, you know, it was like you built it and they came, but only that only lasts in the movies. It doesn’t really last in real life.

Brian Searl:

So I find out what you have is people like you, Chris, who are left people like Irene, who were left. I didn’t meet the guy from open sky, I think is what you said. But like, you’re left with those people now who have proven not only can they buy land, but they can research and they can market and they can build and they can adjust and they can adapt and they can make a profit and they’re here. And on top of that, they’re willing to talk to you and give away all their shit for free, right? Can I say shit on a podcast? I don’t know if I can, but anyway, I did. I think I have a little thing here where I can beat myself, but anyway, go ahead. So yeah, like this here. Can I do that? Yeah. On my little board. So anyway. Okay. So please continue Chris, sorry.

Chris Jeub:

Well, I was just saying that, uh, my, my thought was that marketing five years ago was, was really easy and that kind of opened the door for, for operators. You know, I, I say Airbnb movement was credible and that I kind of wanted a piece of the action. When I put my tent up in my backyard, I wanted to, I wanted to do what my kids were doing. My adult children were actually buying properties and, and renting them out and making a bundle back then. And I, I wanted a piece of that action.

Brian Searl:

So I don’t regret any of it because it got us to where we are today.

Chris Jeub:

Yes, yes, but now the tension to keep those filled because I feel like Airbnb has kind of gone down in visits and people just aren’t as reliant on them as they used to be. And this is my hunch and I think Scott Barrett references too, talking about how people are going to more direct bookings and trying that. Me personally, I see those, anecdotally, I see those numbers where I am getting more direct bookings and those customers are better and they actually sign up for my email and I’m able to keep that communication, that relationship with them.

Brian Searl:

Like if you if you just look at even hotels, right, like when I go to Europe, or when I go to when I went to Slovenia, like, once once you have an idea as a guest, and I’m not saying this is everybody books directly with you, but a large chunk of those people are aware that Airbnb is charging you fees, either through what you’re telling them or what you know what their knowledge is. And so just the very sense of like, I want to help an operator avoid those fees is probably going to make them in 99% of cases a better guest.

Chris Jeub:

Yeah. And there are a few of those who, who want to, and they recognize that and, and, and that’s nice of them. Um, and those are the customers that you kind of, you, you want, but, but really when you get an Airbnb person, sometimes they are loyal, more loyal to Airbnb than you. And, and they, they are on the Airbnbs, um, uh, Rolodex, if you may, because they, they like the relationship they have with Airbnb, not necessarily you. I don’t get very many return guests from Airbnb, but direct bookings I do.

Brian Searl:

They’ve experienced you already, right?

Chris Jeub:

They want something new. And the idea of marketing, marketing is also understanding your market. I mean, I’ve gone much more into, instead of the traveler coming through the Colorado Springs area, I recognize that I get a lot of people from Denver and Colorado Springs apartments who are just looking at it for a weekend getaway out of the city. So that changes my marketing, that changes what I’m offering. And another thing about marketing is that, if I could just throw this out there, the I’ve changed my language because we referenced a open sky. I’m kind of intimidated by them because they’re so glamorous. I mean, just. Yeah, beautiful. I mean, just Buko there’s charging a billion dollars a night and it’s everything. It’s just gorgeous. But, uh, that’s not me. I mean, that, that, that, that is not going to be, you know, I should not try to be me. I’m more hands off camping. Uh, this is a, this is, and then, then I’m knocking their socks off. You know, they get the bed, they get, they get a propane fire pit. They have a toilet, you know, they’re, they’re really, they’re really pleased with what they get. Uh, rather than if they, if they come here expecting open sky, they’re going to be sorely disappointed. I don’t want the howdy towdy one who, who expects for $200 a night, a thousand dollar experience. Um, so that, That’s all marketing, right? That that’s how I position myself.

Brian Searl:

And this is old shit, right? This is goes back to reviews when you like, there’s a book I read years ago, probably 2011 or 2012. I can’t remember the guy’s last name, Jay something, but it’s called Hug Your Haters, Jay Bauer, maybe? Hug Your Haters. And it was talking about 88% or something of negative reviews come from expectations, not matching reality, both positive and negative, right?

Chris Jeub:

And you need to- Under promise, over deliver. That’s the idea. And that’s gotta be done.

Brian Searl:

And we do marketing for four or 500 parks, like campgrounds, RV parks, mostly that side, right? There’s 50 to 75 glamping resorts. And, you know, it’s a, they always want to portray themselves by default as something that they’re not. They want to be the RV resort, even though they’re the RV park. And what they don’t realize is that that just in hindsight does them more harm than good in the long run, even though they might attract a few more people in the short term or pull, like they might pull more people with an RV resort, but those people are going to be unhappy. They’re not going to come back. They’re going to have too high expectations. It’s not worth it.

Chris Jeub:

But they shouldn’t stop anybody from getting into it. I think it was a couple episodes ago. I remember Angel Miller and I really got into this conversation because here we are five years into it and we’re just discovering things about ourselves and how we position ourselves that we just couldn’t foresee five years ago when we got involved. So getting into it and getting that tent raised in your backyard and starting this glamping business, it’s better to do that without having all your ducks in a row. and having this all figured out. Marketing is kind of like a, it’s just a, it’s just a, it’s just, it’s like a animal. You know, it just moves and then you just get to keep working at it.

Brian Searl:

Like, first of all, do we have a hard stop in 10 minutes or you guys want to just keep talking about marketing for a little bit? Because I feel like I don’t want to turn on this whole conversation if we only have 10 minutes.

Miguel Huerta:

I’m fine.

Chris Jeub:

Well, I do, I do have to leave at one, but. No, sorry. So maybe we’ll save the whole- The cold water on the whole thing. But no, we’re rolling here. Keep going with it.

Brian Searl:

I think that there’s a difference between the basics of marketing and the advanced marketing. And I both agree and disagree with your point, Chris, because before you get started, you don’t need to have everything perfect. You don’t need to research. You don’t need to know every single marketing strategy any more than you need to know every single accommodation option available out there for you. or every single type of demographic that lives in the city that’s 20 miles away from you. You just need to have a starting point and understand that your market is there and then have a base understanding of these are the things that I need to do to target them, which is not as hard as it sounds. I need a website. I need to run advertising. I need to figure out how I’m going to take online reservations, right? Like that’s really like, how do I get my name out there on Google Maps and Apple Maps and everywhere else? And that’s really it.

Chris Jeub:

Like if you’re those can all go on after you put it up on Airbnb, you can start with an Airbnb, start with Airbnb venue, and then you have a website, right?

Brian Searl:

It’s my opinion, right? Like, again, you don’t need anything fancy. If you’re starting off with one or two tents, you certainly don’t need to hire me. Like, go to a GoDaddy or a Wix or a Squarespace and just throw something up there that’s good enough for now, right? But have an online presence because if one person finds you through there that didn’t find you through Airbnb, that still saves you 20% of money. It’s a chunk of change, right? And that’s really all you need. Like we have people call us and they’re developing these huge luxury RV resorts and it’s the same answer for them, right? You need an online presence. That means you need a website and you need ways for people to find that website through Apple Maps, Google Maps, social media, whatever else. You need your name out there. And then you need to plan to advertise until you have a following on social media or organic SEO done or a better marketing plan in place. And that’s all you need. Stop spending any more money until you actually are open and making revenue.

Miguel Huerta:

And I think that that makes sense, but also there’s a major trend right now that maybe I don’t know if you guys are aware of, of not, but for example, platforms like a booking.com, which is the largest OTA in Mexico and Europe, they, they, they, they were, um, they’re now, um, they have this statute called gatekeeper because at the end, uh, the European, uh, trade commission, what they found out, is that all the different things that they impose on properties, it will hurt their revenue. And at the end, it will only make them dependent on this OTH, you know. So I think that going direct booking is not a nice to have. It is a mandatory. It’s a must, you know, because that, I mean, because of these regulations that I think that those are great. That’s number one. Number two, I was taking a look on Scott Barr’s report. And this year, the digital channels, like the investment and marketing on digital channels, it It went down, you know, so now people they are running they rather invest on PR or sponsorships or even like printed Ads, you know like on local media shaking that it’s great and it is showing that as Chris was saying I mean the Airbnb days are pretty much gone, you know, like, for example, in my case, like in Latin America, we never had those days. In my properties, 85% of our revenue comes from direct bookings, you know, and mainly through WhatsApp, for example. And that’s something very peculiar, or like, that’s something very specific for the Mexican market. But at the same time, What we’re seeing is that those direct bookings are mandatory. Sure, you need to open to different marketing channels, different sales channels. But at the end, I mean, you need to incorporate and grow these capabilities, you know. And the last thing I think that I mean, we’re going to start seeing a couple of places closing, which is the hard truth in life, you know, that the ones that don’t perform well will close. But I think that this is the moment, a very critical moment in the industry where every operator needs to understand what they want to do with their property. Do they want a long-term business? Okay, what do I need to do in order to have that long-term business? Was it just a trend or a fate? I mean, you better like cut your losses, you know? And at the end, the final thing that I’m seeing is that the industry, because of the prices and amenities and what Chris was saying, Think that we’re gonna start seeing different market segments, you know, we’re like they open the sky People sure. I mean they will go to open the sky type of Glamping sites whereas there’s other like for example like in the States for like a motel 6. It’s a huge chain You know, so we’re gonna start seeing things Yeah, like in my case, in my properties, I don’t want to go like full on the $1,000 rate, you know, I rather like do $100, like, again, it’s margin to a currency rate, like volume. And I think that the money, long term, it’s on the volume, and we need to take a page from what the people with the all in resorts have done, you know,

Brian Searl:

I don’t think you’re wrong. I think that we are also though headed into an economy where the luxury segment is still spending and other people are cutting back. So I think that’s a challenge, not that that means that you should go luxury or not, right? But that’s a different challenge that people have to account for, like the $1,000 a night people are still going to spend $1,000 on glamping no matter probably how bad the economy gets. Like I can’t afford to spend $1,000 a night on glamping, right? So like I think there’s that and we saw that we see that in luxury travel to on the RV resort side that RV resort searches are up RV park searches are down again best is up, you know and all that That’s a headwind But then I think you also bring up an important point about direct booking like direct booking doesn’t have to necessarily be a I have to commit to this huge expensive software or you know sign up for a camp spot or a new book from the camping industry and we went to the Philippines, like, you know, a month ago. And every almost everybody over there is Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp, probably like Mexico, Miguel, like, why do I need a website just like, and again, I think you need a website, right. But if you can figure out ways to market yourself, and again, the culture is different, right? People in the Philippines are used to using Messenger and WhatsApp, just like people in Mexico probably are. And so they are much easier to get to communicate that way than to have an entry point of a website, I think, is my perception. But that doesn’t mean that, again, like make yourself available to people. Text message, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, social media, websites, Airbnb, Expedia, Booking.com, whatever. It sounds like a lot, but you’ll get one from here and you’ll get one from there and you get one from here and together you can get business out of it.

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. At the end, you need to own your channels of commercialization. You need to be on top of them. And I think that you just mentioned something that is critical. Like the other day I was doing like this consulting gig for a hundred rooms hotel here in Mexico. And we quoted a couple of the PMSs and this tech that enables to have your direct channel and what’s not. But when I pull the number and compare it, okay, we’re going to invest this much money, and we’re expecting to have this revenue. I mean, it was at least 10% of the revenue that will go to these platforms. So I think that you need to be very careful on how you pick that technology as well. Because at the end, everything is about the money. And I don’t want to overspend, but I also want to be on top of things. And so, yeah, at the end, it’s great. Again, like the industry is maturing, the glamping show is maturing. And this type of conversations, they just add up to the knowledge that is currently out there.

Brian Searl:

Yeah, I mean, it’s the old adage, you have to spend money to make money, right? Like you go to the glamping show, and you look at the accommodations, the accommodations are expensive. Sure, you could go to Walmart and buy a $30 Coleman tent and put it up in your yard. And maybe you could attract a couple people who would stay there on a budget if you had a nice yard with near a river or something. But ultimately, you gotta spend money to make money. That Coleman tent is not sustainable long term as a glamping option. Right, and it’s the same with marketing. It’s the same with anything you do You’ve got to spend money to make money and you can try to avoid it for as long as possible But so just think about where you’re spending that money. Is it on the accommodation? Is it on the people? Probably the two most important things or the marketing third or is it on the OTA? Where would you rather have the money spent? I’d rather have it spent on my people on my accommodations and

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah. True. I agree. No, no, no, no. But, but it’s still, I mean, yeah. Uh, like for example, with accommodations here in Mexico, we cannot charge as much as, as you can in the States. So I think that like the financial planning when you’re starting is way critical. That’s number one. And number two, um, that you understand the business that you’re getting yourself into. And this business, I think that long are the days where you, as you guys were saying, like that you will set up a tent in your backyard and that will be it. It is sophisticated in itself, which is great. But at the same time, there are so many new challenges, which I think that it makes it exciting, you know, because at the end, you have to be on top of things.

Brian Searl:

Yeah, I mean, and again, you can go Chris, if you need to go, please. Sorry. Well, I want to say goodbye to everybody.

Chris Jeub:

Well, you can say goodbye. Okay. Well, actually, I do have a class of that is on my website, glampingguy.com. That starts on October 21. Easy entry to glamping business. So if anybody’s watching, and wants to have a free online course to go through to introduce them to glamping, go to glampingguy.com. And I got my stuff there. And if you guys want to jump in there too, it’s all free. So go ahead and Miguel and Brian, just jump in. I think you’d enjoy the class.

Brian Searl:

Awesome. Appreciate it, sir. Thanks for being here, Chris.

Chris Jeub:

All right. Take care, you guys.

Brian Searl:

Thank you, Chris. You betcha. Take care. And we won’t stay too long. I’m sure I have meetings I need to be on to you, Miguel. But just to wrap up the conversation, I think, yeah. There’s so many variables and so many things to think about when you’re starting a business. And I certainly like, I know, I know how to start a business. I don’t know how to start a glamping business. Right. But it’s not all fun. Like, and you’ve got to do that hard work, like coming in from the ground up and understand that this can be enjoyable. It can be fun. It can be a passion. Like I come to work every day and I’m super excited to be here. Right. And then as soon as I sit down at my desk, it’s like 72 fires hit me all at once. I’m like, was I really excited when I woke up this morning? I can’t remember. Um, but you know, and I still am right, but it’s. You have to plan for the stuff you have to think about it. What is my market? What is my accommodations? All the things that we’ve talked about.

Miguel Huerta:

I think that we’re in a great industry, man. Like I cannot recommend people, um, enough to join the industry, but I think that you have to be prepared for it. And I mean, you got to be creative. Oh yeah.

Brian Searl:

Or have you. on your team who is creative, right? Because it’s just like we’ve talked about it, you know, it’s no longer enough to set up the bell tent in your backyard. But there are ways that that could also work too, if you were creative, right? And I’m not advocating to set up the Coleman tent in my backyard, right? But like there’s a niche for that. Like if you’re creative enough, there’s a niche for like, all right, I want to create a survival glamping thing, right? Where people go and they only have a Coleman tent. And I have like 100 acres of forested wood and they have to like, make it out or, and if they don’t make it out, like, I don’t know, they don’t get a refund or something. Like there’s a market for that, right? Like I’m just is it big? Should you go after it? No. But my point is, is with the creativity, that’s a terrible idea that I just gave. Well, maybe it’s not. But Like understand your niche, figure out what you’re going to do and then plan everything else around it.

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah. Now, for example, in our case, I can tell you that, uh, this weekend we are completing the installation for a day of debt. It’s like installation that they will have in the glamping site, you know? So it will be all about people like experience this thing in a new way and then I can stay in there and then I can take pictures and it’s just a great thing, man. Creativity, I got my mind blown away by this guy from Pakistan. I don’t know if I introduced you to him. But anyway, like he was showing me how he had like this glow-in-the-dark murals, you know that I mean I don’t think that you will even care where you will be staying that you will be more impressed on on the murals that he had in there so it’s a lot of things and at the end keeping keeping things local a Whenever I go like in my case. I wouldn’t try like the the craft beer, I want to try the local spirits, I want to try the local food. And there’s so many places. Oh, it’s not hard at all. But you just need to understand what is your selling proposition, your unique selling proposition, you know? So yeah.

Brian Searl:

It can’t be as simple as the cookie at Doubletree that’s warm that they pull out of the drawer, right? People remember that. It doesn’t have to be.

Miguel Huerta:

I was never a fan of those. Sorry. I was never a fan of those.

Brian Searl:

No, they weren’t the best cookies in the world, but I’m just saying they were memorable, right? People remember that. That was the schtick or whatever for DoubleTree. So whatever your shtick is, like you just have to think through it. And if it’s, you know, if you’re decorating for day of the dead, if you’re decorating for Halloween in the States, if you’re decorating for Christmas, if you’re like, that’s very easy to make a theme out of just like campgrounds, I’ve seen weekends that people will come back and see a different experience because the interior decorations are different or there’s different activities or the staff is dressed up or right. Like it’s ways to get people back to engage your audience.

Miguel Huerta:

Definitely. So yeah, I’m very excited about the industry. And I think that today’s podcast, it was a little bit of let’s face the reality of the industry. But at the same time, I mean, It’s not that there’s a light. It’s just that, oh my God, we’re in the very early stages of the industry. We need so many more people, tech people, creative people, foodie people that will create these glamping sites that are the future of the industry. That’s why I’m very happy about being in this industry.

Brian Searl:

100%. All right. Any final thoughts, Miguel?

Miguel Huerta:

No, I think that it will be important to see how the glamping show evolves. I’m pretty sure that those regional meetings done by the, well, in this case, I just found out that there are like two national associations, the American Glamping Association. Yeah, that’s number one. the Mexican Lamping Association, as you can see in here.

Brian Searl:

But anyway, my point is that I see like… Sorry, I thought you meant to American Lamping Association.

Miguel Huerta:

No, no, no, no. Remember, this is an international show, you know. So at the end, the UK guys, they’re doing a couple of things. The people in Central America, they want to do their thing. So I only see more growth but also more like renal meetups Actually, by the way, I have like some Like I have something for you which is we’re gonna be hosting our first Mexican meetup in February, you know, so That that will be very very interesting as well. Are you inviting your Martin? Yeah for sure. Okay, I’ll come Yeah, sure. Anyway, what about you? In Spanish.

Brian Searl:

We’ll do it this time in Spanish. I could talk about this stuff all day, right? It’s not just marketing, it’s about just helping people with knowledge that either I have or mostly that my guests have that I bring on, right? But like, I often talk to myself about thinking like, and maybe we’ll make this pivot in 2025, where like, if you look at a podcast, it was like Joe Rogan, right? He’s going for two and a half hours talking to one guy or two guys. And I’m not saying we need to do that, but it would just be interesting to just be able to say, like, stay as long as you want. If you need to drop off like Chris, cause you got something else to do, cause you’re important, then you can drop off. And if you’re like Brian and you have nothing to do and Miguel, you got nothing to do. We can just hang out and talk. Right. Um, but like, I, that’s the one thing that I think that is my takeaway from some of these podcasts is sometimes we cut ourselves off before we want to, and maybe that’s a good thing. Cause I shut up earlier, but for my guests, I would like them to talk more.

Miguel Huerta:

And I think that, um, we can, we can keep on going. I think that, um, again, like if we are discussing marketing, there are so many things around that. Um, But okay, let me ask you a couple of things. What, what would you say? Let’s, let’s start with the financial part of it. What percentage of the, of the, of like the glamping revenue should people invest on marketing?

Brian Searl:

I think it depends on your business, right? Is the honest answer. Like the, the, the, the American marketing association, I think says seven to 8% of your gross on a small business period. Right. So you’re not far off at 10%, but I also think it very much depends on your business, where you’re located, how easy it is for you to get business. Like if you’re outside Denver, in Chris’s case, it’s much easier for you to get business than if you’re in rural Mexico, right? And there’s not a city for two hours around you, then you might have to put more marketing dollars into it. But also the cost of marketing has come down tremendously from what it used to be. You know, when when I was growing up and I was I’m still young, I was born in the early 80s, right? But, but that was all like you had to have a ton of money to have a TV ad or a radio ad or, you know, some kind of huge newspaper campaign. And the cost of marketing has come down dramatically, like insanely with the advent of social media and stuff. But even now more so, like if you look at the cost of marketing and using a tool like chat GPT, where you now have a copywriter, where you have advice, where you have strategy, like for us, as we continue to counsel like our clients, for example, on what should I do in 2025, you know, based on where you see the economies going and the search trends and all the other factors specific, like, obviously, the answer is nuanced and different for every single property by a little bit. But it’s generally speaking, have a website, have good SEO, figure out how to expand that SEO to reach other target markets, like a good example would be let’s, let’s make up a property in I don’t know. Well, let’s look, I was talking to Mike Harrison from CRR hospitality and his team a day or two ago, maybe it was yesterday. And we were talking about the very same thing about how to expand SEO. So he’s got an RV resort and this applies to glamping resorts too. But let’s pretend you have a glamping resort where he has an RV resort in Camp Verde, Arizona. It’s a big town, right? Like there’s lots of people who come there, but it’s not as big as like a tourist destination as Sedona might be. And so there’s like for SEO, reach out and look past where you’re already targeting. Yes, the main core crux of your SEO should be focused on the city and the area that you’re located in. They’re coming to Camp Verde. You know, are they there for a river? Are they there for a national park? Are they there for the city? Are they there for what are they there for? Market to that. And don’t change the targeting, don’t try to target all the places all at once from your homepage, for example, but build a page that targets Sedona, that talks about why people who want to visit Sedona should come glamping in Camp Verde, because it’s quieter, or there’s more accommodations, or you’re more luxurious. Then you have the ability to not only target people who are in Camp Verde but target people who are also in Sedona and the Sedona page can rank for Sedona and the home page can rank for Camp Verde and Then you can have pages on cabin rentals and glabin and glabins. I just made up that word. How do you like that? That’s not bad actually glamping and yurts and base these things on data. If you’re working with a good partner for your marketing, they can pull this data and they can look at what people are already searching for. Is it the word camping or campgrounds or RV parks or RV resorts or glamping or cabin rentals or yurts or and then target that content around that. And that just brings you more eyeballs. And it’s like ultimately, depending on your website designer, and if they’re charging per page or per hour or whatever, like it’s not necessarily free, but it’s way cheaper than constantly spending three to $5 a click on Google ads forever, or 20% on booking.com or whatever that percentage is, right? And so that cost has gone down because you have now the ability of whether you do your own website and Wix or not, you run all that copy and chat GPT for free. You don’t have to hire a copywriter anymore. You can go to Wix and you can create like, again, it’s not going to be as good of a website as a lot of marketing agencies are going to build you, but you can add a page in Wix with a website builder template for basically free and then throw the copy on there from chat GPT and put a couple of pictures up and you’re done. Like, again, is that going to be the best SEO in the world? No, but it’s better than what you had before. Yeah. So like, again, just thinking through those ways that you can take strategy, and you can deploy it in a way that long term is going to benefit your business, because it’s not sustainable to hang your hat on Airbnb for 15 years and not have direct booking as an example.

Miguel Huerta:

Which I’ve met a couple of properties that they only sell through the OTAs, like Airbnb, like Booking.com, at least in Mexico during the pandemic, they shut down operations for two months. So those properties that they will only rely on these OTAs, they were in a bad spot. But yeah, well, I, and, and I mean, this is me being a fan of everything that you’re doing with AI. It is impressive. And I think, I think that right now, yesterday I was taking a look on this WhatsApp event that was held here in Latin America. WhatsApp in Latin America is going to start processing payments. So I think that the website will always be critical and SEO. I mean, those are like 101, you know, like things that. Yeah. Yeah, you need to incorporate that. So what I’m perceiving is that we are getting closer and this might be in the upcoming 18 months or like properties, the marketing side can be run by one man, you know. So it’s like the matrix, you know, like, like Neo, like, boom, I know Kung Fu, you know, so, so it’s, it’s kind of funny. And the online presence is growing, it’s growing, it’s growing. LinkedIn is exploding. TikTok. Oh, I have this insight for you, my friend, and to everyone that is watching the show. Did you know that from the 10 most searched properties in Mexico, Thank God, three of those are ours. But the other seven, it’s because they went viral on TikTok. So you need to do. Yeah, yeah, of course. And then I started running like correlations between different like, KPIs that we have. And the most important thing is not how much money you invest in marketing. So at the end, creativity in the age of AI, which I think that that might be an interesting topic for an upcoming show. It’s critical, man. So that is, it is impressive. And as you said, the other day I was talking with this media outlet in Mexico, and I was telling them that I consider myself a crypto guy. And it’s not, sure, I love crypto and everything that is involved with it, but I think that crypto is the outcome of several technologies coming together in one place. Yeah. And glamping is the same. Why? Because it is decentralized. I mean, there are glamping properties that are outperforming hotels in revenue, which is crazy. As you said, you don’t need those traditional media expenses. I remember that back in the day here in Mexico, only like the Hyatt and the Marriott and a couple of properties. those will be the only hotels that you will see, or that like their information will reach out to you, you know. And then the third one is that, so we have decentralization, we have the low cost of marketing, but also the experiential part of things. Oh my God, it’s so unbelievable. And so yeah, I mean, the industry, I think that, Yeah, it’s so important. You can incorporate the three of them. And LAMPing, now that we have the Starlink and these satellite internet capabilities, it’s only going to get more decentralized, which is even greater, you know, off-grid technology. Oh my God, it’s crazy.

Brian Searl:

Yeah. And I don’t like, I will say that I agree with everything that you said, except for like almost the spend. I don’t even think it’s the spend anymore, right? Like thinking is free. And this is what people kind of, And again, we’ll have a separate like discussion or like I want to try to amp up my content outside of the show to, you know, maybe maybe we create a dedicated glamping type show where we have just, you know, one on one talking or something like that. Right. But so we can delve more into these deep topics. But if you look at things like like thinking is free and we talk about A.I. like People say they don’t know what to do with AI. Like, go to chatGBT and say, I don’t know what to do with AI. It will answer you. and it will tell you what to do with AI, right? And so I don’t think people quite grasp the fact that thinking is free now. And so if you look at something like you were talking about TikTok, again, I don’t want to veer into AI here, because we might have enough time, but I probably am meeting right now or something. Like if you look at TikTok, it’s all about the algorithm. The algorithm is going to know not is, does know your guests and who your potential guests are 150,000 times better than you could ever hope to no matter how much work you put in. And the algorithm is only getting better every single minute. And so it’s not necessarily about how much money you have to spend. It’s the content that you’re writing that the algorithm wants you to write. that will reach the people that you need to reach. So if you write for, and I know this sounds counterintuitive, forget writing for the people, write for the algorithm. And if you write for the algorithm, the algorithm will find the people that you need and you won’t have to do anything. And you don’t necessarily need to go viral, right? Like that’s always the kind of the chase or the carrot or the, you know, I need to reach 2 million people to be successful. No, you don’t. If you reach 2 million people and 50 of those people book, that’s great. But if you do targeted outreach and the algorithm finds the exact people we need and you don’t go viral and you reach 200 people and a hundred of those people book, that’s way better. Right? Like I’d rather have a hundred people than the fit. Who cares if they saw my business? I want the people who are putting money in my pocket. And so it’s, it’s just, and you can go, we’ve done this. We’ve hacked this with social media at insider perks months ago where with the Facebook specifically, cause that’s where we do, You know, a lot of our work for the on the RV side more than tick tock, because we don’t produce the videos. And a lot of people don’t. But we went into chat GPT. And like, it’s not as quite as easy as this, but you can start with the basics. And we went to Facebook insights. And we pulled out, we looked at all of our posts for the last year. And we looked at what performs well, and what doesn’t. And you can see that what has the most reach, just forget about clicks and likes and all that what has the most reach, because that’s the algorithm. deciding that. And you can see if you go post to post what the wording is, what the topic was, and you can quickly see what performs better and what doesn’t. And then you can take that content and throw it right into chat GPT and say like, I want to go after Facebook’s algorithm. And I’d like to, you know, make this more targeted and more enhanced. What do you know about Facebook’s algorithm? Great. Here’s 10 example posts of things that performed well and 10 that didn’t. What are the differences? And it’ll tell you. Here’s the tone of voice. Here’s where the wording is placed. It’s shorter, it’s complex or unstructured sentences. And the call to action is at the beginning versus the end. And it uses hashtags or it doesn’t. It uses emojis or it doesn’t. And it’ll tell you all that. And then it’ll write perfect posts. And again, is that going to be a problem?

Miguel Huerta:

You got to fire it up, man.

Brian Searl:

Like, well, that’s what I’m saying. Like, just use, like, it’s free. I’m passionate about this, right? Just like you’re passionate about glamping and the Mexican glamping association. Like it’s, it’s so simple. Thinking is free now. You don’t, if I can summarize.

Miguel Huerta:

Oh, I do think that you need someone. And I think that even Mr. Beast, it depends on what that is.

Brian Searl:

Right? Like, again, we talked about the people who we want to hear at the glamping show.

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, but my point is that, okay, if I can summarize everything that you just said, and actually I run it by numbers, the most important KPI to grow your revenue, it’s impressions. That’s it. It’s not the amount of money that you invest.

Brian Searl:

Through social media, yes, but the right impressions. The algorithm is, on social media, the algorithm is going to find the right impressions for you. On Google Ads, you have to put in more work. On your website with SEO, you have to put in more work. But if you do the right work with SEO, if you do the right work on Google Ads, if you do the right work with the algorithm, you’re going to get more of the right impressions, which are going to lead to more bookings.

Miguel Huerta:

Which happened to us, for example, with TikTok. We had four, like this past summer, we had four videos that each one of them had a little bit over 1 million views, you know? And as you know, we, well, at my company, at Mantley Living, we have this reservation center, you know, like where people, they will WhatsApp us and we will give them all the information. The thing with TikTok is even though that we reach those high numbers, Oh my God, like not everybody was a fit, you know, so it will only slow our operations. So as you said, and I completely agree with you, I rather have a thousand views and the 10 people they book from that video with a thousand views rather than having a million views. And as it happened to us, 5000 people, they reach out to us. And the conversion was like, very, very, very low. But yeah, and it is interesting. It is interesting. Nevertheless,

Brian Searl:

Like all this is like, I mean, we take this in any direction, right? Like I do have to go here in a couple minutes, but like, we take this in any direction. Like I was talking, like we’ve had crazy discussions with clients who look at us like we’re nuts, but like you’re, you’re talking, you’ve already seen this on Instagram and TikTok with AI influencers that are completely fake people that do not exist, that have never had any experiences before. This content can all be created at scale. It can look real or you can tell people that it’s an AI and they’ll still engage with it and still interact with it. The most famous one is the woman, the completely fake lady. I don’t know who her name was. I saw it probably a year ago on YouTube. Who’s like $10 a month for a virtual boyfriend or whatever where they can chat with this completely fake AI. Doesn’t exist. But they can see her pictures and they can chat with her and she’s making millions of dollars. Like not she, the person behind whatever it is, is making money. And they know she’s an AI and they know she’s fake, but they’re still willing to engage with her. And so this is, when you look at creating content at scale like this, the example I gave was to an RV resort, I think in Texas. where and I told this to my team about a year and a half ago to like the future is AI influencers. That doesn’t mean that human influencers are going away. It means that AI influencers will supplement them just like great, amazing people like Chris will supplement chat GPT. Both are great sources of resource, right? You can’t have one without the other in a successful business. But when you look at things like there’s a niche for everything, I guarantee you that there are probably 5,000 people in the United States of America who are literally obsessed with patio furniture on the patio at the RV resort. Guarantee you there’s at least 5,000 people who are obsessed. And if you start a social media influencer who, because you can’t do this at scale with a human being, because there’s not enough money in it, right? But if you start an AI influencer account with a guy whose only job is to review patio furniture at luxury RV resorts in Texas, for example. And that’s all he does like he right. That’s all he does is talk about the furniture and how comfortable it is. And you know where it’s placed and whether it has a fire pit and if it has a nice view and how comfortable it is. But you can start that account and grow it to have 10,000 followers. And every single time that guy posts about a piece of patio furniture and RV resort that’s comfortable, 50 people will make a reservation like that. That is worth its weight in gold. And much better than going viral. And you can do that. Like this is what businesses should be doing now. Like if you’re an RV resort in Texas, like start, start, start these accounts. Who cares if they fail? Start talking about patio furniture. See if you can find 500 people who love patio furniture. What’s the danger, right? So this is, this is the interesting stuff that like is maybe or maybe not happening, but for sure is like able to be scaled.

Miguel Huerta:

Definitely. And there are like new tools coming up to the market. The cost is going down. And I think that content creation done through AI and influencer is the future of the industry. That being lamping sites, hotels, even like vacation rentals, you know. So yeah, I mean, that is some food for thought. It’ll be great if people that are watching the show if they can share in the comment section Like if something pop in their minds while and while you guys were Listening to us and yeah at the end so many things to do That it happened to me.

Brian Searl:

Yeah, like I think long term. I don’t not not the audience. I’m talking about the people. Yeah viewers who want to go glamping and I don’t think they care if it’s like, they obviously care if you’re sharing fake pictures, if you’re claiming site, don’t do that. But I don’t think they care whether it’s AI content or not. Like if you look at the people who are on social media already, most of it is fake content already. You kind of know that in your head, right? Like it’s not AI, it’s not totally a lie, but it’s been heavily edited. It’s been produced. You’re only seeing the best moments of all your friends’ lives and all that kind of stuff, right? And so I think ultimately what the answer is going to be for everybody is the right impressions like we talked about, but it’s a getting the information that like, if I want to, for example, as Brian, if I want to go to Slovenia, and which I was at in May, right? And I want to discover the best place to go on a hiking trail that has the most beautiful waterfall, right? I don’t care if an influencer told me that or corporation or an AI, as long as the picture of the waterfall is right. And I know what I’m going to see at the end of the hiking trail. I don’t care how it got to me. Like, so, so that’s, that’s the thing that people need to understand is, is the algorithm will take care of that. It will get it to the right people. Don’t lie, don’t mislead, set the correct expectations, get the right impressions and you’ll get business.

Miguel Huerta:

Yeah, but you have to be done. You have to be cautious on the times of AI, because in Mexico, for example, I, I know this property that somebody replicated their website, their social media, and it started, it started taking bookings on their behalf, you know? And it was fraud. I mean, it was fraud. But my point is that this property, because their reputation got so damaged, they had to sell the place and shut it down, you know.

Brian Searl:

Yeah, I mean everything has to have thought, right? Nobody’s saying go into this and just let the AI do everything. Just like it’s it’s the thought behind the algorithm that we just talked about with TikTok. You can’t go to chat GPT and just say write me a social post. It might be OK. Like, but you should read that and check it and like for facts and grammar and tone of voice and make sure like it still has to have a human involved. No one’s advocating for that, but you can use the. The time that you would have spent as a human to write a social media post can now be spent using AI in a critical thinking way to write 20 social media posts. And you still should review them and you still should look at them and you just make sure they’re on your brand and won’t damage your business. But you can write 20 posts in the time you could write one. And they’re probably going to be better.

Miguel Huerta:

And I think that, I mean, you can pretty much now automatize all of that, but the thing, it will be, okay, what are you going to do with all your spare time that you got because of that productivity gains, you know? And you can go to the glamping show, which is always a great option. That’s why I think that the these regional meetups will become more important, you know, because at the end, a lot of these best practices and stories will be shared among peers. So, yeah, I don’t know. Everything links up. So, it’s a nice moment.

Brian Searl:

It is. I’m excited for the future. I probably have to get to a meeting. I’m sure you do too. But thank you, Miguel. I appreciate you joining us. I was talking a little bit longer. Yeah, we can dive into all these kind of fascinating topics. And ultimately, I just want this show to help people, right? That’s what I want it to be about. And I think it does. I hope it does. So I appreciate you, Miguel. I think it does.

Miguel Huerta:

If not, eventually. Oh, go ahead, please. Yeah, no, but if not, eventually, the algorithm will find today’s transcript.

Brian Searl:

And it will put it. Yeah, and that’ll be mine and AI, and you’re an AI. But we’re still controlling what we say, right? We’re just doing 20 podcast shows at the same time.

Miguel Huerta:

So it might come. That’s a goal. All right. Have a good day. Thank you, everybody, for watching the show.

Brian Searl:

We’ll see you later. Thanks for joining us on another episode of MCPowers.Chats. We’ll see you next week, guys. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_03:

This episode of MC Fireside Chats with your host, Brian Searle. Have a suggestion for a show idea? Want your campground or company in a future episode? Email us at hello at moderncampground.com. Get your daily dose of news from moderncampground.com. And be sure to join us next week for more insights into the fascinating world of outdoor hospitality.

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

I was the only American on the whole panel.

Brian Searl:

Mike Harrison was there. He was an American. I’m like, I’ve left, right. But, uh, still an American. So

Chris Jeub:

We’re an international group of people.

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Yeah, we got the North American, uh, right, right here. We’ve got Canada and America and Mexico right here in the room.

Brian Searl:

I think we should change the name to North Mexico though. I like that sound better. What do you think Miguel?

Miguel Huerta:

No, well, I think that the travel thing is not an issue because there are direct flights to Denver.

Brian Searl:

And we can avoid the whole North Mexico issue, Chris. But OK, sorry.

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

I had to leave. I had booked a six o’clock flight, so we left at like 310. We had to throw our booth in the back of the van.

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

The good old days, the good old days.

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Yeah. It was a lot of vendors last year and maybe 200 this year, but there was no space in the outdoor space.

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Yeah, we went through that whole thing with Ojai that was RVIC years ago, tried to put out a standards for RV parks, right? The intention is good. What ends up happening is not.

Chris Jeub:

Yeah, yeah, right, right. I agree. I think the glamping show is going to continue to be awesome for the nearest future. We’ll see what Emerald comes up with.

Brian Searl:

Go ahead, Miguel. Sorry.

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

And there was no glamping guy five years ago.

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

So I don’t regret any of it because it got us to where we are today.

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

They’ve experienced you already, right?

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

And you need to- Under promise, over deliver. That’s the idea. And that’s gotta be done.

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

I’m fine.

Chris Jeub:

Well, I do, I do have to leave at one, but. No, sorry. So maybe we’ll save the whole- The cold water on the whole thing. But no, we’re rolling here. Keep going with it.

Brian Searl:

Chris Jeub:

Like if you’re those can all go on after you put it up on Airbnb, you can start with an Airbnb, start with Airbnb venue, and then you have a website, right?

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Yeah, I mean, and again, you can go Chris, if you need to go, please. Sorry. Well, I want to say goodbye to everybody.

Chris Jeub:

Brian Searl:

Awesome. Appreciate it, sir. Thanks for being here, Chris.

Chris Jeub:

All right. Take care, you guys.

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

It can’t be as simple as the cookie at Doubletree that’s warm that they pull out of the drawer, right? People remember that. It doesn’t have to be.

Miguel Huerta:

I was never a fan of those. Sorry. I was never a fan of those.

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

100%. All right. Any final thoughts, Miguel?

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

But anyway, my point is that I see like… Sorry, I thought you meant to American Lamping Association.

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

You got to fire it up, man.

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Oh, I do think that you need someone. And I think that even Mr. Beast, it depends on what that is.

Brian Searl:

Right? Like, again, we talked about the people who we want to hear at the glamping show.

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

Brian Searl:

Miguel Huerta:

If not, eventually. Oh, go ahead, please. Yeah, no, but if not, eventually, the algorithm will find today’s transcript.

Brian Searl:

And it will put it. Yeah, and that’ll be mine and AI, and you’re an AI. But we’re still controlling what we say, right? We’re just doing 20 podcast shows at the same time.

Miguel Huerta:

So it might come. That’s a goal. All right. Have a good day. Thank you, everybody, for watching the show.

Brian Searl:

We’ll see you later. Thanks for joining us on another episode of MCPowers.Chats. We’ll see you next week, guys. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_03:

Outdoor Hospitality News

For owners, operators, team members, and anyone else interested in camping, glamping, or the RV industry.

MC Fireside Chats – October 9th, 2024

Episode Summary

Recurring Guests

Chris Jeub

Owner

Monument Glamping

Miguel Huerta

CEO

Nantli Living

Special Guests

Episode Transcript