MC Fireside Chats – October 8th, 2025

Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. We are maybe light on guests this week. I don’t know, we had a bunch of people who were scheduled to show up who apparently just decided that they had too much fun at the Glamping Show, or maybe they’re still recovering Scott, I’m not sure.

It’s a good show, but we’ll see what we can do for you guys today as far as content.

We’ve got some cool things I think we can talk about. Obviously we have special guest Stephanie here who I’ll let introduce herself in a second, who will be talking to you about Basecamp 37. I think we do a recap of the Glamping Show and some of the experiences there. We could probably cover the Marriott announcement.

Scott, I think we could talk about some of that. And then maybe at the end, if we have time, we’ll talk about how the whole world’s gonna change with Sora 2. And it’s gonna be really interesting how social media and how you market your park changes as a result of that. But first, let’s go around the room then.

Scott, do you wanna introduce yourself first? 

Scott Foos: Hey. Yeah. Good afternoon. I guess it is now, everybody. I am Scott Foos I am a managing partner and co-owner of Horizon Outdoor Hospitality. We are a third party management professional services firm, exclusively serving the outdoor hospitality space. Really excited to be back here again.

Brian. Thanks so much. I think I missed last month. You were, you were in Ireland, if I’m not mistaken, right? 

Brian Searl: Yeah. I was in Ireland, so I didn’t even know that you missed last month, but now I’ve got you. Yeah, just I keep a list of all the people that missed shows.

Scott Foos: You can mark my attendance down. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: We can charge you later. And put, I’ll put her in the tab. Welcome Scott. I appreciate it. We have so many people missing. We should have Zach Stoltenberg here. He was at the Lodging Conference in Arizona, so I feel like he has an excuse which we’ll talk about later as we indicated. But Joe Duemig, Casey Cochran, we might have to get some new guests here.

I don’t know. Sta or Stephanie, sorry, I almost called you Stacy. I don’t know why. Stephanie, please introduce yourself. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. Hey folks. My name’s Stephanie and I’m the general manager here at Basecamp 37. We are a 10 acre glamping property in Southern Utah, right on the border of Arizona and Utah.

Tucked between Grand Staircase, Zion, Bryce, and the Grand Canyon. We’re an independent woman owned, there’s just two of us. Myself and Amy Affeld. She’s our owner. Just two of us running. We have five tents and we’re in our ninth year of operation here. And we absolutely love it. I think 

Brian Searl: So you, I was gonna interrupt.

Stephanie Kichler: This is what I. 

Brian Searl: You were one of the early adopters who figured out that Zion was gonna be popular before they all blew up during COVID and all came and joined you, right? 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah, actually we were the first glamping site in this region, in the Zion region, in the Southern Utah region. So proud of that and started a new trend. They didn’t even know how to tax us or permit us when we started. 

Brian Searl: I feel like they still don’t know how to tax and permit anybody, but that might be another 20, 30 years before they get that under their belts. It’s government after all.

Scott, is there anything that’s come across your desk in the last, maybe two months since you’ve been on the show, but month knowing that we’ll talk about the Glamping Show and Marriott, is there anything else that kind of has come across your desk that you think we should talk about?

Scott Foos: I think the Marriott piece was what I had jotted down for this show for today. I think that it’s an interesting not unexpected announcement but an interesting announcement and development. We could chat about that whenever makes sense though. Brian, I think that the focus for us remains, and I know that’s the topic of this show is guest experience and how we can ensure that we’re continuing to push the envelope.

Being at the Glamping Show last week was as always really inspiring and exciting and it’s, it’s really more than anything, we’ve continued to see it commercialize and grow over the last, five or six years that I’ve been going. I think it’s been around a little bit longer than that, but it’s still, you have so many great ideas and innovations and things that people are doing and trying and, from the physical units and cabins and tents and orbs and all sorts of things that are out there.

Brian Searl: Was there Orbs? Did I miss Orbs in the show? 

Scott Foos: No, I sure I saw one. I don’t know. 

Brian Searl: I think you should start a company that builds orbs. That would be pretty cool. I’d buy one. 

Scott Foos: But anyways it’s exciting to see how you can continue to to innovate the, how people are continuing to innovate the guest experience from what you sleep in to what you do on site.

Brian Searl: I think let’s start with the glamp, go ahead. Were you gonna say something else?

Scott Foos: No, please. I was gonna ask what your thoughts were at the Glamping Show. 

Brian Searl: I think that you’re right. Like it’s interesting because I think I was expecting it to be a little bit different just given the transition between David Course and Emerald, right?

I don’t know. I necessarily expected it to be better or worse, just different in some way. And I don’t know that it was like, like all the things that you’re talking about were there, they were present. The new people coming in, the more corporatization the people who had been there year after year.

It was great to hear from some of the speakers, like the Bolt farm Treehouses and the HoneyTrek people who were there again. But some of those people have talked before. I don’t think the Bolts have, but, and so we were used to hearing the big stories and big players. So I don’t know if the education track to me, was that different.

What did you think? I didn’t get to attend too many sessions, honestly. 

Scott Foos: I did not make it into any of the sessions. But I had some team members that did and they thought that the sessions were helpful and informative. I think, when you think about who the average and Stephanie, I’d love to know, your perspective. I’m I assume you did not go to the Glamping Show last week.

Stephanie Kichler: I did not, no. I’m here full time on property. 

Scott Foos: You’re here full time. That’s right.

Stephanie Kichler: Everyday gotta meet guests.

Scott Foos: But if you were starting out nine years ago did you I can’t remember, was the Glamping Show a thing Brian, back then?

And would that have been something that would’ve been helpful for you, Stephanie to go and experience as a as an aspiring glamping operator? 

Brian Searl: According to, before you answer, just to answer your question, Scott, according to Ann from HoneyTrek, was on our show last week. She says eight years.

She’s been coming to the Glamping Show and it was in some tiny little hotel ballroom the first year or something. 

Scott Foos: Oh, okay. 

Brian Searl: Okay. I think the first big one was 2019, big-ish one. Okay. Because I was at that one and then I missed a year or two for COVID, not nine years ago. No, but go ahead Stephanie.

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah, no. Amy and I, she’s the owner, have always chatted about going to the Glamping Show and toyed around with it as a small team. It’s one of those things that probably get a little lower on our priority list when we’re like, oh, we should repair the deck instead. So it is one of those things that we would definitely see that being beneficial.

We love just seeing what people are putting out there, some of those new designs. She sent me a couple of like posts of these like rollout, pop out, safari style tent. And it looks really cool ’cause if we do ever decide to put another tent on we do safari style tents right now on these wooden platforms.

It might look a little different in the future if we bump up to six units on our property. But right now we’re just at five. And then we also just love the networking. We ourselves network just through social media and stuff like that, and have a lot of great relationships like Glamping Canyon Lands. Out by Canyon Lands.

They’re wonderful and although we’ve never met them we feel super close to them. And so we do love the networking aspect of events like that too. But maybe in the future you’ll see us there because we’ll prioritize it. We’ll go. 

Brian Searl: You have to, right? I’ve been in business for 16 years and for the first eight it was just me.

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah, exactly. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Stephanie Kichler: This is actually our first year where I’m GM officially, and not just like contract side help Amy where I’m in more of a full-time capacity. So for the last eight years I’ve been just supporting Amy and lifting her up, and it’s been her more solo. And now at eight years we’re making a switch like this.

So it takes a while when you run your own property and you’re independent. Those things take a while. Yeah. 

Scott Foos: And I’m curious too, I mean your, if I’m not mistaken, did I read that your property is off-grid? 

Stephanie Kichler: Oh, yes it is. We’re on-grid with our power and we have fiber internet, so no. I’m sorry. I totally well ignore that. We’re on-grid with our water. We 

Scott Foos: Okay.

Stephanie Kichler: The city water about three, four years ago we took ourselves off our, but we are totally solar powered, so we are really proud to be generally eco-friendly and off-grid living, especially as it relates to all of our electricity.

So each tent has their own little solar setup and array. And it has a little goal zero generator inside of it. And then we have a larger array and then a big solar shed with 10 batteries in it that run where I live. And then where the guests shower and eat and cook food and stuff like that.

Brian Searl: I have an interesting,

Stephanie Kichler: fun working,

Brian Searl: I have Interesting question.

Stephanie Kichler: Working plan. We have to have the internet because I’m on it right now. 

Brian Searl: I have an interesting question for you, Stephanie. I’m curious before I give my thoughts, ’cause they did send me the glamping survey and I filled it out and I’m gonna tell people what I said on it. Mostly good.

But I’m curious with the trade off that you’re talking about making. It’s obviously a very hard sell to come to the Glamping Show when it’s just the two of you. Is there something that you can imagine in your head where you’d see the Glamping Show do next year that you’re like, okay, this is worth the trade off.

I have to go to this. 

Stephanie Kichler: Oh, I that’s a really good question. Oh. I think for us, a really big thing is networking, is meeting other people and learning from them. I think sometimes we hear from a lot of folks that are like corporate and they have a really unique design, and that’s neat and we love to see that.

But what we really love to hear is people’s stories. Oh, when this broke, we did this and here’s how we recovered when this happened, or, the national parks closed, here’s what we did. Or when this, something happened. So those real stories from people about how we’re all navigating it, how we’re all figuring it out success stories, amenities, they’re adding amenities that are low cost, high cost, wherever it is, how they’re elevating that glamping experience and getting people onboarded to the whole setting once you’re here.

’cause it is different. A lot of people are, first time ampers, never have camped when they show up here. And so we have to really do a lot of education and a lot of, a little bit of handholding in the best way possible. To get them comfortable and enjoying this experience fully. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, for me, the networking is the biggest piece of the whole thing, right?

Like I, I even as a vendor, I’ll go and exhibit at the trade show and I’ll be like, all right, I just gotta stand here at this booth for a few hours and then I can go to the bar and do the real business. But the networking for the owners and operators too, just that connecting with people, you’re right.

You can’t replace it. And I like, that’s one of the, I think, the easy criticisms that I would make of the Glamping Show. And I put, I don’t know if I put this in my survey, but it’s been all the years you’ve been to multiple ones, Scott where like they, they have good education. They have a good vendor set up and it turnout.

They have good organization, the conference is well run, et cetera, et cetera. But they don’t really do anything other than the American Glamping Shows Taco Tuesday, which is great, and they have a DJ on the, but you can’t really talk there, right? It’s very loud. Outside of that, like there’s really no networking.

And I feel like the conferences and this goes to OHI too, like OHI doesn’t really facilitate networking either. They happen to be in a hotel that usually has a nice bar where everybody just congregates and it happens organically, which is great. But yeah, that networking I needs more of an emphasis, I think.

And I don’t know if it’s breakout sessions, if it’s one-on-one, if it’s speed dating, if it’s, yeah. Just there’s so many different takeaways that you could do with, you hear from other owners and operators. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. And that’s what we do so much online is through our social feeds. It’s just networking.

It’s just laughing about things that happen. We’re exchanging messages back and forth with these other operators just wow, oh neat. This is so cool you did this. And that’s, that feels so rich to us when we get ideas and we also feel like we’re part of a community of people that are like, oh, similar experiences.

So it’s really neat. 

Brian Searl: I wanna put together a glamping escape room, Scott, where you have to go in as a newbie operator and you have to talk to all the people who have owned glamping resorts forever, and you have to figure out how to build the perfect glamping resort to escape 

Scott Foos: I like it. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, go ahead. You were gonna say something probably more profound?

Scott Foos: No I, no, I was just gonna say though, that I feel like one of the things that makes our industry, and I, when I say our industry, just the greater outdoor hospitality industry as it stands today, so unique and special, is that it’s filled with mom and pops, we’ll call them our independent operators and owners where, we, I include myself in that as an operator, but as an industry, we have to really understand that we rely on each other. There’s this networking piece of, and troubleshooting component and just being there for each other for support. Even it’s just to, to hear somebody vent about something that happened, I think is so important.

And I, I look at Mark Koep’s Facebook group. I don’t know Stephanie if you’re a part of that, but it’s, there’s, I don’t know, maybe five, several thousand members in that.

Brian Searl: At least somewhere there, sure. 

Scott Foos: Yeah. And I think that’s why it’s one of the reasons it’s so successful. It’s a well run group, but it’s, I think it’s successful because we all see that there’s not a playbook.

Outdoor hospitality is not cookie cutter. It is all so different and so unique and it’s very nature. And I think the ability for us to connect together and share what’s worked and hasn’t worked is even more profound and necessary in our industry than it would be in, say, traditional hotel when everything is maybe a bit more uniformed to and standardized than what we have. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. Case in point, the number of people that are ask me, oh, is there a front desk or a check-in desk? And I’m like, it’s me. I’m the desk. Yeah. 

Scott Foos: Yeah. So how does that work? Do you guys. With your property, do you have so are you there to greet guests?

Is it mostly self check-in and self service? We’d love to, I’d love to learn a little bit more about your property specifically. 

Stephanie Kichler: Sure, yeah. Yeah, that’s a great question. And actually I think our take on it is unique. Potentially you guys might know better if it’s unique. As a background, I come from about 10 years as a public school teacher, and so I come from an education mindset and I come from very much so wanting to ensure by the way I greet people, talk to people that they’re feeling comfortable, welcome and really at home.

So generally speaking, I’d say 99% of our guests, unless they’re arriving past 9:30 PM we personally check, I personally check them in. So I meet them at their tents or point them that way. I give them a tour of their tent. I explain our solar power, how to work the heaters. It’s cold there, it’s cooler right now.

And then we usually walk over together to our guest lodge and I show them all the. Things in there and point out like the marshmallows and there’s hand towels here and do all that good stuff. And I would say that’s actually one amenity that we really pride ourselves on is that personalized one-on-one support.

If you look on booking.com on our reviews, ’cause we get a lot of international travelers through that. It’s just like the warm welcome I felt at home. She explained everything, over and over. And then once they understand, once people feel comfortable and they understand, they can reach out to me, they know I live on property.

They’re just like, ah, I can relax. I think I’m okay and I know where everything is now, and I feel okay asking a question. So I know a lot of glamping properties are certainly gonna be more hands off, and that is absolutely cost effective and a wonderful way to run a property. But it’s something that we’ve done since the beginning, is that personalized welcome and being a general presence on the property.

The guests see me like jutting around, cleaning the lodging during the daytime if they’re still on property, staying over, stuff like that. So I’m definitely part of that experience we’re having. 

Brian Searl: I wanna do a study with Scott Bahr on this in 2026, ’cause we’re gonna bring back our MC Reports that we were doing.

Just took a whole hiatus. We were both too busy this year. It would be really interesting to do a study and see if there’s a floor in, if someone does what Stephanie does at her property and greets people and explains everything, is there a floor for you get a base minimum review? Like I can’t imagine anybody reviewing less than three and a half stars if they’ve met the owner of the GM, they’ve walked them through the property.

Like you’d have to be a really like just irritable person, right? 

Scott Foos: Yeah. You would think or, yeah. That you would hope that the person welcoming them truly wants to be there as well. 

Brian Searl: That, that’s true. I guess that could happen, right? But assuming it’s a good experience. 

Scott Foos: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that when we think about hospitality and the guest experience, I think that is one of the elements that is, can be the hardest thing to scale, to really understand how to nail down is that warm touch. When and to be able to welcome them in because Stephanie, you being able to do that, you are truly welcoming them to your home. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

Scott Foos: And, and in every way, right?

Like literally. And I think that’s really impactful and I think as properties get into, say like a hundred plus site counts. It can be very difficult to do that, to maintain profitability. But I think when I, and I use air quotes there, because a lot of people don’t look at the hospitality element as an amenity, as Stephanie said, like it is an amenity.

It does cost money. It costs money to maintain through payroll and making sure you’re supporting great people. But it’s so important. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. What if this changes in the future though, right? So I know I’m like the technology geek, right? Advocate for AI, robotics, everything else. What if robots can do all the things except for the hospitality piece and that allows a hundred site, 200 site, 400 site park to have four or five camp hosts, and that makes the experience better for all the guests.

Scott Foos: To the extent that we don’t, if we can standardize some things and offload things like, waiting for those housekeeping robots to, to roll in, I think it’s gonna be a. 

Brian Searl: Couple years you’re gonna, it’s gonna come fast, Scott. You’ll tell me that. 

Stephanie Kichler: But robot has to make sure they see the mouth tape, somebody stuck to the lamp and left it.

Because I feel like true the robot’s gonna miss that. Sorry. It’ll be interesting to find out. 

Brian Searl: I wanna run a test on it and see, I’m gonna use that exact example on the first robot I give. 

Stephanie Kichler: I like it. 

Brian Searl: But yeah I think that’s important, right? The hospitality piece is important to your right, Scott. It gets to a point where it scales.

That’s what I’m hopeful though, that there was a great speaker and I, and he was on our show the week before the Glamping Show, Ari. I, it’s just, I’m too old and I can’t remember his last name. But he’s, he works for Fat Rat AI. He gave a great session at the Glamming Show that I was one of two that I was actually able to catch.

But he owns a really nice property, I think in northern Vermont with his wife glamping off-grid. And he’s just probably either equal to me or maybe even a little above me with the things that he is talking about not even talking about, sorry, has executed and automated his property. And he was telling cool stories about he was experimenting with robot dogs delivering food and didn’t realize that children were afraid of robot dogs and just the things that he’s experimented with and that have tried and failed.

And it’s just really interesting to hear his story. But the undercurrent to it all is his wife balances him and says no that the guests can never see the technology. They can’t feel it, they can’t touch it. It just has to be there to personalize their stay and make their outdoors experience better without tech everywhere.

And I think that’s the key to a really successful. Where I wanna, I imagine it going with these multiple camp hosts, right? That’s right. Automate what we can so that people can truly spend time making the guest experience better. I don’t think you should ever replace that camp host.

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. 

Scott Foos: I agreed wholeheartedly. And I like what you said about how, Ari’s wife balances him out with people don’t want to see it. They don’t like, part of why they come to an off-grid experience at Basecamp 37, I’m sure is to get away from it, right? To get away from the tech and the ability to disconnect and reconnect with themselves.

And I think that the ability for us as operators and owners to improve margins and allow us to invest in people and that experience of welcoming them in. The more that we can do that and implement AI and tech behind the scenes as much as we can, I think helps to, I think that’s the ultimate goal in my view.

Brian Searl: Yeah, imagine like an AI that just researches the people who are staying with you on social media beforehand or asks them questions in a quiz and then they have, you have their favorite snack or their favorite wine or whatever waiting in the room. The technology is not in their face, but the technology made their stay that much better.

Stephanie Kichler: That’s right. Absolutely. Yes. 

Scott Foos: Yeah, that’s, yeah, that’s where it’s at. That’s the magic. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. That’s what I mean. I’m trying to build it over here as fast as I can. I gotta stop, do a podcast every hour and then go to the Glamping Show. But just that stuff really interests me though, is pushing into that undercurrent of stuff.

Maybe not the robot dog so much, but we’ll see.

Stephanie Kichler: I won’t replace my dog with that. 

Brian Searl: I asked Ari that question after the thing. I was like, so the, he was on our podcast too, that from the Glamping Show. I said, the key takeaway I have from that is the robot dogs are only at the adult only resorts, and he laughed.

But yeah, it’s gonna be a fun I think there’s gonna be a place for tech-centric resorts that are themed that way. But mostly yeah, stay outta the way.

So how, so what problem were you trying to solve, Stephanie, when you opened your resort there in 

Stephanie Kichler: Ooh. 

Brian Searl: In the area in the beginning.

Stephanie Kichler: We’re in the desert. It’s a little rough out here sometimes. Things berate us. And so the kind of revolving problem that we often face is that things are really consumable out here. Things that you don’t think are consumable. The tents themselves, they have about a two year lifespan just because they’re getting whipped around in the desert sun, desert sand.

We have a little saying the desert’s up. I won’t say it, but, we’ve had issues with our, going out. The pump is broken when we were on well water, and then we’re like hauling in water. So a lot of things are just consumable that you do not realize are consumable as the wear and the tear and the tread continues on.

And so I think that’s one of the biggest problems that we’re always trying to solve is how to stay on top of all that and keep our margins up and make sure that we’re just not constantly spending a bunch of money on new canvas, new chairs. ’cause things just break out here. It’s just the way it is out here.

So I think that’s one of the biggest things when, so Amy started the property nine, like I said, nine years ago. This is our ninth year. I met her that first year. So I came in right at the beginning. Like she. 

Brian Searl: Count, you count as a founder then. 

Stephanie Kichler: Hey, and then I showed up like May 20th in her world and was like, hi.

So I missed a lot of that like setup of what she was doing. This property down here it’s in a, we’re on basically surrounded by public land, all ag land, a lot of cows, a lot of weeds, lot of just stuff and junk. So cleaning the property and just general overall maintenance. Again, we’re on a dirt road.

Eight miles outside of Canna, Utah. And so life out here, it’s just rural. The cows sometimes are here and we have to shoo them off and hope they didn’t poop a bunch. Just these everyday things of wear and tear and just life really off-grid is our real reality of what we’re trying to solve.

Brian Searl: But that adds to the charm, right? 

Stephanie Kichler: Oh, it absolutely does add to the charm. And honestly, our guests, when the cows are around, they love it and I’m just, I could do without it. But our guests find it charming and interesting and they think it’s fine. The cows were only here for a week in the springtime, which is good.

Scott Foos: I’m sure you found it charming and fun like the first year. Yes. But then it quickly faded. 

Stephanie Kichler: As you like yourself are like becoming all of a sudden the cowboy with your dog, like running the cows off. You’re like, what am I doing? 

Brian Searl: That’s right. Are they not just wild cows, like wild horses or, 

Stephanie Kichler: No. The ranchers move the cows onto our on, not onto our property, but neighboring properties.

Brian Searl: Ah okay.

Stephanie Kichler: They rotate cattle on their public land leases. And so once the cows are released in an area where they’re leased to be, the cows move about freely. We are a fence out State in Utah, which is pretty common in the west. And so if you want the cows to stay out, you have to fence them out. We have most of the border, our property border, it’s 10 acres fenced, but like where you drive in is not fenced.

There’s a big wash that they can get up into and get under the fence. So there are access points into the property and by golly they find them. 

Brian Searl: It’s fascinating to me, like I keep learning this as I travel and I do wildlife tours and things like that, how smart some of these animals actually are.

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: It really is fascinating to me. Like we were in I came back from Ireland a few weeks ago and we had gone on a couple roads, like up in the mountains and there was like literally I think 40 or 50 sheep on the road and I don’t know where the stereotype came from. I thought it in my head, but I don’t remember ever learning it that sheep are dumb.

But we actually Chat GPT did when we came down from the mountain. They’re like, no, they’re sheep are really smart. They’re just, they don’t wanna move. They’re lazy. And but it was talking about how sheep are really smart and intelligent and go with the herd and watch out for each other. And it’s just, but it’s fascinating to see, like we were up in Churchill, Manitoba and learned that the polar bears would figure out how to go fishing off a rock when the tide came in and out to grab beluga whales.

And then the polar bear would learn how to do it and he would teach the other polar bears how to do it. So it was just fascinating to see how smart some of those animals are. I think, anyway. 

Stephanie Kichler: And I will, I could tell you I could write a novel on mice in the desert. It’s just about being smarter than them out here.

It’s of course there’s mice out here. Of course they’re running around everywhere. But it’s oh, maybe not leave the chip bag open on the floor of your tent. Gotta be smarter than the mice. They are smart and they are around. But we try to keep ’em out. 

Brian Searl: Do you wanna talk about Marriott?

Go ahead Scott. Go. 

Scott Foos: Oh, no, I was just, I’m sorry. I was just gonna say one, one thing about that I think, managing the guest experience with that can be, a bit of a challenge, making sure I compare it to properties that have a lot of bears and you’re in bear country, right?

Giving them all the things they can’t do. Don’t leave your food out, don’t can be. A little intimidating as a guest, especially if you’re not like used to it. And I know bears are different than mice, but it’s still a prop. No one likes to see a mouse in there. 

Yeah. They don’t like to see, 

Stephanie Kichler: I take a little bit of a perspective of don’t, not saying don’t do x, y, and z. I take in perspective of saying, you’re going to hear mouse you’re, the mice are outside. They’re totally fine outside. Ideally, we don’t want them in your tent, so you know, to not have them in your tent, I’ll just put all your trash inside or take it to our dumpster.

Scott Foos: Yeah.

Stephanie Kichler: And so it’s really, it’s how we also frame it. ’cause then it’s oh, I don’t want the mice inside. And it’s then when they hear the mouse or they hear the coyote outside, they’re like, good, it’s outside.

Scott Foos: Yeah.

Stephanie Kichler: Perfect. So it’s just managing expectations with that. If you tell them, they’ll hear mice and then they hear mice. Checks out. I heard him out. He said I would. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, I, it’s interesting you talk about, ’cause it’s, it is how you frame it, right? Everything is how you frame it. And so and I’m gonna stereotypically say campgrounds ’cause I travel all around in 2013, 14, building my business, videotaping campgrounds.

But like it was always the do not do this, do not do this, do not do this, do not do this. Do not do this. It was listed 20. And we would come across the owners who would literally stand there at the counter and read every single one of the people. Are you sure you got this? Did you, but if you just reframe that a little bit and say something like, Hey, we do have friendly mice that run around the property.

They’re usually not in your tent, but they love potato chips. If you wanna see a mouse, please feel free to leave your potato chip thing on the floor. If not, then but just. Don’t leave potato chips on the floor is different than if you wanna see a mouse, leave your potato chips on the floor.

Stephanie Kichler: Yep. Yeah.

Scott Foos: And I think speaking, just from the experience that I have in talking and working with individual owners in operators, I feel like a lot of people, not to generalize or stereotype, but they start off with the best of intentions. And that it’s Hey, this happened and this has happened five times and I’m tired.

I’m really like, I worked all day. I’m burned out. And so the list just starts to grow of like grievances. And it, people don’t often understand how it comes across and they’ll take the position that, it’s my park, you’ll stay my way. And that’s not. That’s fine. It is your park and you can have people stay your way, but it’s not effective.

So I think making sure people operators and owners can give themself enough space to disconnect a little bit and or bring somebody in to help operate for them or be a great general manager for them to allow them to maybe re distance themselves a bit from the things that.

Which I get like you’ve done it for eight years or nine years. 

Brian Searl: It’s human nature. Like it’s human nature to react that way. Like we’ve talked about when I, years ago when I would only do review responses for parks, we would give them away books and we would look at quotes and we would look at studies that say like when you get a negative review, your mood goes down and it stays down for a whole day.

And then it comes back up to normal. But if you get a positive review, your mood spikes, then it goes right back down like a couple hours later. I’m not doing a good job drawing here, but I understand. But yeah, it’s human psychology, right? And so that those negative things do pile up.

Like I think it’s really interesting because it’s not just Campground owners, it’s me too. In my business it’s probably you too, Scott and your business with things that we deal with that we’re like frustrated and we wanna do things differently and we don’t understand how other people perceive what we’re doing.

Good, bad, middle of the road, whatever. I think it’s really interesting, and I’m not gonna switch the conversation to this, but the way I use AI. I have prompted my AI and said, I want you to always use the Socratic method with me. I want you to think from first principles and whatever question I ask you, if it is opinion based and not fact based, I want you to always gimme the other side of the argument.

And that has really helped me understand and see through other people’s lenses. And so that’s one of the good things I think that AI has brought to the world. Perhaps if you use it. Totally. 

Stephanie Kichler: Sorry about that guys. The guy is here and the dog is barking. Just real life out here. 

Brian Searl: Oh, that’s totally fine.

Yeah. I understand. Do we wanna talk about Marriott a little bit? Sure. I’m curious to hear your thoughts first, Scott. 

Scott Foos: Yeah. Do we want to for listeners that may not know the news, do you wanna. 

Brian Searl: Stephanie, do you know? Yeah. 

Stephanie Kichler: No, I’m not sure what you’re talking about. 

Brian Searl: All right. Now Stephanie’s gonna know.

She’s our audience of one. Nobody else watches the show, Stephanie, just so you know. Go ahead.

Scott Foos: A as I understand it they, Marriott announced maybe last week or on October 1st. I’ll, I guess that was last week that I. 

Brian Searl: I’ll Chat GPT while you talk. 

Scott Foos: Okay, great. Thank you. They have they have launched a a franchise or a platform opportunity called Outdoor Collection by Marriott Bonvoy.

None of this is, should be a surprise given their acquisition of postcard cabins last winter and their long-term partnership with trail born hotels. But as again, as I understand it, the the ability to have a franchise or be a part of the Marriott world with a franchise for the for outdoor hospitality property specifically.

Those that have lodging units, not at this time RV at, it’s my understanding.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Scott Foos: But it’s geared more around glamping properties specifically that, that want to take advantage of that franchise. And really, of course, in doing so, one of the many benefits I’m sure is that you are able to participate in the the audience that they can bring to your property through the Bonvoy platform, and have those folks be able to earn and redeem rewards while staying with you as well.

It’s a huge, to me it’s a very high level. It’s very and I mean that by it’s more enterprise level at this point.

I think it’s going to be interesting to see how smaller properties fit into that, what revenue minimums Marriott will require or key count minimums to make it worthwhile for them and how those, like the length of the franchise agreements and that sort of thing. I think there’s still a lot to get figured out personally.

But I think it’s. It was an inevitable move and I’m here for it. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, my Chat GPT is thinking forever and ever. Curious, before I give this answer Stephanie, what are your thoughts on the initial. 

Stephanie Kichler: I’m just looking at it right now. Initially it reminds me of like when REI went in and did REI experiences, which is now closed.

And so that’s what dinged off in my head is just that kind of parallel there, a big company getting into just a different market, different niche. And maybe it’ll work and maybe it won’t. REI, I know closed what, last year? The year before. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. That would be sad. REI experiences was pretty good experience.

Using experiences too much. But yeah, I heard great things. But they didn’t own resorts, did they? They just took people on hiking trips and they. 

Stephanie Kichler: Was just hiking. They did close everything. So that’s no longer in operation. I think last year they stopped doing them all and and my other world that I work in is Expeditions and Big Mountain Expeditions, though. Queued into that outdoor world of expeditions, trips, hiking trips, all that.

But I’m, generally speaking, I try to have the mindset that more people that are doing glamping, people that are coming to the table, it’s better for us overall. Because it’s more approachable for people if Marriott starts doing this and it’s great.

It just elevates the whole glamping community, holds us to a great standard which is awesome. And then we also continue to hold them to a great standard by having our independent skillset sets and mindset out here. We’re setting the tone, we’re setting the bar for people like them even. I really try to look at it as not competition, as we are just stronger together when more people learn about glamping and feel comfortable with trying it ’cause it is unique. 

Brian Searl: I think I tend to agree with that sentiment. Let me read the what Chat GPT brought back to me. So it’s Marriott’s new nature first collection brand that lets you earn and use bonvoy points at cabins and boutique outdoor hotels. So this is interesting to me. I saw a few places that it’s not just glamping it’s also like they’re taking some of their resorts that are more nature focused and putting ’em in this collection too.

So that’ll be like, we’ve continued to not fight, but gently disagree over what glamping is forever. So I think that’s about to go through maybe another definition here. Yeah, that Marriott will drive, 

Stephanie Kichler: I’m looking at it and there’s like this surfing one that’s definitely like a boutique hotel. It’s in North Carolina or something like that.

Brian Searl: But I think those are outdoor hospitality. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: I really do. We’ve talked about covering those in Modern Campground before. I think something that really connects you to nature. Primarily not just has a yard outside or access to a beach, but something that is truly nature focused. There’s some really good resorts in Costa Rica that I would call glamping. 

Stephanie Kichler: Absolutely. 

Brian Searl: I’ve never been to Costa Rica. I’ve just looked at the pictures. I, one day I’ll make enough money to go, but. 

Scott Foos: I think, it’s, it’ll be interesting too to, to consider and watch the evolution of the brand because when I saw some of I, I believe I saw.

I can’t remember exactly which brand it is, but it’s a well-known brand for some reason. The Four Seasons keeps coming out to me, but I could be, I’m treading the waters that I’m not completely familiar with at this point. 

Brian Searl: It’s totally fine. I do that every week. Scott, feel comfortable.

Scott Foos: But it, I, it was a mountain side just ski and ski out hotel. 

Brian Searl: Okay.

Scott Foos: Maybe that could be cons, like Yes. Okay. It is action, it is outdoor oriented because you are attracting people that want the ski and ski out capabilities, but I, as the brand grows, is that truly the focus and or is that maybe a way to have additional offerings at this point while they’re working on bringing in more of the postcard cabin type. Truly, those glamping properties that don’t share walls that that are, truly, maybe defined by glamping in, in that way.

But either way it’s still the point is to they’re recognizing, I think the strength of this space the guests desiring to disconnect a bit and have something that’s more unique and more memorable than just another hotel room. And in many ways, I would say that yes, like Field Station by Auto Camp or Trail Born, those are awesome.

It’s an awesome concept and I’d love to stay in them, but at the same time, it is a different experience than say, Basecamp 37. It is completely different, right? Like it’s themed, it has it has the gear shop and that sort of thing that you can utilize, which, so you are going to say Moab and you do want to ride bikes and want to be able to bring it back and fix up your bike or whatever it is.

That’s great. But at the same time, it’s different than being able to bike directly from your glamping tent, where Basecamp 37 is. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. That makes sense. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. I think that’s the difference, right? So like I’ve, I keep just going back to Ireland ’cause it’s fresh in my mind, but we stayed at a great place called Fin Lock up there.

Which was a glamping resort on a lake. And I sent a couple people the email they sent me when they arrived, and it was like the high touch point. Here’s an online portal you can go to. Do you want firewood? Do you want wine? Do we can have this in advance to your site? And it was very easy to do that in advance.

But when you got there, they had like really nice bubble tents. But they, I they seemed to have customized them. And maybe I just haven’t been in a bubble tent in a long time. But like most bubble tents have the airlock there, don’t they Scott, like to keep the bubble tent afloat. 

Scott Foos: I’m not too familiar with with that structure.

Brian Searl: Anyway, so it was a nice, but they had nice bubble tents along the river, whatever. They had some cabins, but it was a big, huge resort. And so you could walk out of the back of your door and you were secluded, like there was a row in there, but everybody had trees between them. You couldn’t tell anybody was near, nearby you, et cetera, et cetera. But then like it was a whole huge property where you could go onto a lake and you could have kayaks and paddleboard rentals. They had a full chef driven, like five star restaurant that was like, that I think is the big thing that people will come for, right? Is the food.

But they had a bunch of activities and they had saunas, and they had spas and they had, so it was just a big, huge property that like, we didn’t get to take advantage of a lot of it. That whole thing you’re talking about I’m at my resort, but now I can bike or go wherever I want to go without leaving the property is what really is the difference maker versus just the accommodation I think. 

Stephanie Kichler: I feel like here in Kanab, it is a massive tourist destination here. Maybe you’ve never heard of it. It is a small little town, but it’s like a Springdale it’s like a Moab, things like that. We’re a gateway town to all these parks. And I think more and more what I, what we are seeing, because we really had a bust with Airbnbs, a boom, I’m sorry, a boom with Airbnbs.

More glamping places coming up, things like that. And we do have a lot of hotels as well. A lot of the Airbnbs are actually shutting down the single family home Airbnbs that aren’t offering this type of experience. A number of my friends do own really nice Airbnbs here. We of course, have the glamping property and folks are really looking for that experience like you keep saying.

And the experience is sitting outside, watching the stars, roasting a marshmallow. Even as simple as that, the experiences sleeping in the tent it being a really curated, beautiful space. And I think more and more, especially in these towns that are touristy and bringing in people for a certain reason, people are here to hike.

They’re here to go to Antelope Canyon, they’re here to go to Horseshoe Bend, they’re here to go to Zion. And so they wanna carry that as much as they can into their accommodations, or they’re just like hotels, chill. This is cool. It’s easy going straight to the hotel, and that’s fine too. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. And your property works, like how many amenities do you have or is it just the tents?

Stephanie Kichler: I don’t know if I could, I, we have a number of amenities and a lot of it is little things. Like we provide the marshmallows and s’mores. We have like little snacks for people that are already out. We of course provide all the propane and all the wood. You don’t have to pay for any of your wood.

We’re in a fire ban, so we’re on propane fire pits right now. But all of that is provided, so the only thing they really have to bring is just food to cook themselves. So we don’t have onsite food facilities.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Stephanie Kichler: But we have two beautiful state-of-the-art kitchens that they can cook in fully stocked with like olive oil, salt peppers, condiments in the door already for them.

Brian Searl: But that works for you I think, right? Given your location and that everybody’s coming to you to leave you. If that makes sense, to go to Zion, to go to Bryce, to go to Canyon, whatever.

Stephanie Kichler: And that’s part of the name is we, the idea is that it’s your base camp because you’re an hour from Zion, you’re hour and a half from Grand Canyon, hour and a half from Bryce, an hour from Antelope Canyon.

So it’s, the idea is that’s, we’re in the middle and you come here in the evening to relax and kick back. It’s like our tagline, oh, I’m blanking it. It’s because a great day of fun deserves an equally awesome evening. ’cause we know you’re what you’re doing all day. And that’s part of our amenities also, is to get me who’s sitting here saying, get into Zion at this time.

Do this trail. You didn’t get an Angel’s Landing permit. Go to Scout Lookout. This is actually my favorite Vista. No one will be there. Here’s a GPS pen. Oh, you wanna go to White Pocket? Great. It’s free to go. Here’s how you get there. You wanna do a tour? These are our friends that do canyoneering tours, here’s a discount.

And so part of it is my love for maps and my love for the region and collectively that we can sit down and actually have real conversations with these people before or during their trip and tell them, oh, you wanna do this? Oh, you wanna hike one mile? That’s it all day today. Cool. Go to these three spots. ‘Cause we know that it’s gonna be low hiking and big views, big reward. So yeah. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: But the naming is important, like you talk about, right? Like I feel like sometimes, and maybe Scott, you feel the same way. I don’t know if you want to, this is dangerous territory waiting to this.

I feel like the United States and Canada tend to overcomplicate naming sometimes, like I went over to Ireland and the hotels that don’t have places to eat, they’re just called self catering. Oh. Like in the name of everything. It’s it’s a self catering hotel. It’s the name of the hotel. And I’m like, that’s really easy. Why did we lose that when we came over from English to English?

I’m not sure. But yeah, that stuff is that just, and that reduces the need to answer so many questions too and do extra customer service and sets expectations for people and stuff like that. So it does say in Chat GPT that Marriott is not franchising yet, at least not publicly. It launched with postcard cabins, and Trailborn there, and there’s no outdoor collection page yet on their owner development site.

So I’m just reading a few more things. 

Scott Foos: I think it’s, I think that’s coming and, because, my, as I think about it, and I wish, I know Zach Stoltenberg was was at the Lodging Conference this week, and I wish he was on here to, to share what he was learning firsthand. But they had a number of vendors there. Cabin manufacturers specifically. 

Brian Searl: Creek Zip cabins. 

Scott Foos: Yeah. Yep. Nokin. Yeah. Those, that, that are, you know, now preferred or maybe approved if you want to classify it as that vendors with Marriott for the Outdoor Collection to provide units that I am assuming meet. Levels, franchise standard levels.

And I think that for me, when I think like practically about the implementation, about of this, the mass implementation of this in our industry, knowing how fragmented and how different every property is and how fragmented our industry is as a whole and the size of a lot of glamping operators specifically, many glamping operations are in the 10 to 20 key count and smaller.

And, knowing revenue minimums or what I understand of some revenue minimums and key counts. 

Brian Searl: It’s the 70 key counts. They won’t franchise anything less than 70, is what I understood. Yeah. It’s years and years ago it might’ve changed. Yeah. 

Scott Foos: Yeah. They have to change it, right? To to truly get into this space.

And I think that’s what I keep coming back to is I am here for it because I do think it does raise the profile, Brian as you said, and Stephanie you alluded to also, that it does open us up to a larger audience and they, many people are wanting to shop and stay with points or earn points.

That’s very powerful. And I think we have the ability to provide maybe even greater experiences than they might have at a branded hotel by nature of what we do. But how we can, how they get into our space and how they actually can implement it at scale. I’m really excited to, to watch and be a part of.

I know Best Western Hotels is also going after this, the same segment there. I maybe a bit er a bit later than outdoor collection in terms of scale. But they are also trying to pursue franchise opportunities that I know of for sure. And of course Hyatt with I believe with their acquisition of Under Canvas or partnership with Under Canvas.

That’s, these things are happening, but how they happen with the vast majority of operations in the space will, is to be determined. 

Brian Searl: I’ll play devil’s advocate for a second and say what if it doesn’t raise the profile of the industry? Now hear me out. Sure. Because Marriott is not advertising this as glamping anywhere that I’ve seen.

They’re not using that word. Have you seen it anywhere, Scott? The word? 

Scott Foos: I thought I saw glamping, but I could be mistaken. 

Brian Searl: I’ve seen outdoor collection, I’ve seen outdoor hospitality. I’ve seen bonvoy outdoors. I haven’t seen glamping tied to the Marriott announcement yet.

Scott Foos: Cabins.

Brian Searl: Yeah, cabin cabins have cabins because postcard cabins, right?

Scott Foos: Yeah.

Brian Searl: So it’ll be interesting to see, if as people begin to stay at these Marriott resorts, redeem their points, experience the postcard cabins and all that stuff, do they actually connect that to glamping if they have no other experience with it? Or do they connect that to, I’ve never had something before.

This is cabin rentals, or this is Marriott, or this is, and so it’ll be interesting to see how much that translates into the overall excitement for the glamping industry as a whole. 

Scott Foos: Yeah. I think that’s, I think that’s a really valid point. Brian and I’m on their site now. They have stays and outdoor destinations on their homepage it says, pursue the activities you love at over 450 properties around the world.

And they have different segments, one of which is hike and glamping. Then you can drill into the states. But my point is, I feel or internationally too, like US, Canada, Asia Pacific, Caribbean, Europe, and Middle East and Africa. So with 450 properties around the world, they’re clearly taking properties that are already in the Marriott ecosystem and classifying some of those as, things you can do if you are outdoor focused, which is great, right?

Connect people to the outdoors. That’s one of our, one of the missions. But it’s different than I think what we’re talking about here with truly no shared walls and that true group experience. 

Brian Searl: And so then did, but then does that serve to also raise expectations on operators like Stephanie now who are, Marriott, I had hot water and I had this, and I had that and I had air conditioning and I had luxury bedding and I had and I think there, there’s still gonna be lots of people who will go to all different types of experiences. But it’ll be interesting to just see, I don’t think that impact is all going to be positive. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. No, definitely. I agree. There are some glamping places that are super rustic. We are proud.

Everything you just listed there was like, check check. No AC, but we do have AC in the guest lodge. And we run it during the daylight when this power is free. But we do try to really keep those amenities high and not, our tents don’t have private bathrooms. You have to go to the shared space for that.

So that’s one thing that is, different and sets us apart from a lot of the other operators, but it also keeps our margins low. It keeps our price more affordable which is actually super intentional on our side. But I absolutely get what you’re saying. The hot water, having luxury linens just nice pillows, nice feeling things goes a long way.

And I actually, I’m, I’ve seen that some glamour properties where they were a little bit lower and you like, brought your bedding and there was like mouse poop all over one wall. I was boom. 

Brian Searl: And that’s the danger, right? That’s the danger is like is, I think there’s, there already is a split between like even luxury camping and non-luxury camping, right?

And there’s often, other than I guess you could point to maybe KOA holiday, being in the middle. But there really isn’t a clear definition of what in the middle is in the camping industry, especially now after COVID when we’ve had this boom and everybody’s building these huge luxury resorts.

Scott Foos: And I think that’s becoming more necessary from the guest expectation perspective. And also on the other side of it from a data aggregation and analysis perspective too, for us to really start to understand classifications of properties and performance metrics and that sort of thing.

Based on that, and I know there are some really smart folks in the industry working on that. But I think one point I wanted to mention too with this is when we think about outdoor hospitality and those properties that maybe have higher key counts with, and when we say key counts, meaning specific like lodging units that are able to perhaps qualify with key count revenue minimums for something like a, an outdoor collection. A lot of them are going to have RV sites as well.

A lot of institutional players in our space are combo properties. And how does that work? We’ve and we actually, we have asked the question of Marriott and the answer right now is we’re figuring it out.

It’s not something that fits today. We’re figuring it out. But it is something that does need to be figured out, in my opinion, for for greater adoption. But I think it’s different audience. Even more. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. I think it’s a different audience. I think the people who are willing to go glamping at a Campground or an RV park, there’s nothing wrong with that.

It’s great properties, great experiences. A lot of operators are doing it well, but I think that’s a totally different audience than the people who stay with Stephanie or will stay with Marriott. 

Scott Foos: That’s right. It’s, It is definitely a different than what Stephanie offers. But, again, what kind of at what enterprise level are they setting to, to participate in the program and who is who are those people? That’s kinda what I keep coming back to. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think as they expand, if as they, if they expand the brand, as you see the different types of hotels and brands that Marriott has now, they’ve obviously acquired Starwood and a few other places years ago, right?

So they have up to 22 or 24 brands or something now. And so there’s different Marriott brands for everything different. I think eventually there might be a different brand if they end up taking down that path for the places with RVs. There almost has to be, because I think if you mix those two, then the guest gets really confused and it’s a, as we just talked about, it’s a different kind of guest. i’ve talked, we’ve had the RV industry on the show multiple times, and I’ve told the RV industry, like the RV industry stands for recreational vehicle. You know that, right? The amount of things that you could do with that in the future and define as a recreational vehicle is I don’t know.

I don’t know that RVs is the number one future of our industry. I don’t, I can’t tell you that with a straight face, Scott. I can’t. 

Scott Foos: I. 

Brian Searl: That it’s an important piece of it to be clear, but is it the number one driver of what it has been for the last 60 years going forward?

Scott Foos: Just look at the, look at the proliferation of like camper vans, right? Like that, I know that’s, that’s, that is an RV, but is it Right? 

Brian Searl: Like I, no, for what I just said that came outta my mouth. I don’t consider it camping man. Camper van’s part of that. Yeah. I’m talking about the stuff made in Elkhart.

Scott Foos: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Searl: Yeah, it’s, it is an interesting topic. Like it’s, and we tread careful thin, like we don’t wanna upset anybody, right? There’s nothing wrong with the RV industry to be clear. It’s just, it’s an interesting dynamic as we head toward, everything’s more expensive. People can’t even afford their first house.

I think I read a report the other day that like, and even in Canada, like in British Columbia, like 30 to 40% of people have made trade-offs on ways they can afford the same food they have and have cut different things. And we’re just expecting these people to go out and buy RVs. That’s go going camping is a hard sell when you can’t afford food. 

Stephanie Kichler: Let alone putting gas in that thing.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Scott Foos: Yeah. Yeah.

Brian Searl: So that’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying that RVs are bad or you shouldn’t want to buy one. I just think the value prop is changing, maybe temporarily, maybe it’ll come back. 

Scott Foos: Yeah, I think it’s like accessibility and making sure that as an industry, the greater outdoor hospitality industry remains accessible and you can’t just be accessible through the purchase and utilization of an RV.

I think, and that’s where RV share can come into play and that sort of like ways to do it, but still

Brian Searl: For sure, yes.

Scott Foos: To your point. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: That’s the ultimate goal is bringing people close to nature in the outdoors. And if that happens to places like Stephanie’s, places like you run Scott for Horizon. Whether that happens to Marriott Bonvoy, whether that happens to trade, RV parks, like it, that’s the idea.

Let’s just get people closer and connected to nature, I think. So any final thoughts, Scott, on our discussion? We didn’t get to Sora 2, but you get to another episode. 

Scott Foos: No I would just say that, there, there is a lot of buzz that I think I always, I try to come back to the operator and, just keep focused on, you might be hearing this news and wondering what that really means.

And I think just continuing to stay focused on your guest and providing those memorable experiences in ways that, like Stephanie is able to do so with her guests and making sure that we’re keeping that human element front and center with that connection and welcome and and being able to read your guests to understand what the, what they need to improve their day and stay I think is really where the magic is and what we can continue to control.

Brian Searl: Yeah, don’t be afraid of experiences, as Stephanie said, there’s there’s one out of 220 million different experiences you can create at your park. Yeah, I think people are scared about experience because, like in the beginning, early days of the glamping industry in the United States, there wasn’t a lot of experience outside of Under Canvas and stuff like that.

And then you had more operators come in and they built more things and, but I think there’s a lot of people that a lot of people are talking to and networking events or things like that have just put up glamping tents or cabins side by side and they were successful. But when there’s so many of those, you become the same as everybody else.

It’s not, it’s no longer an experience like it was in the beginning. And so they look at it like you, they were here, hear the word experience, and they’re like, oh, I gotta put a water park. I gotta put a swimming pool. I gotta do this or do that. And it doesn’t require millions of dollars in capital.

It just requires, who’s my guests? Let me think about what they want. Let me research a little bit, put them, put myself in their shoes and create something that they will remember. And that’s really what an experience is.

Stephen, final thoughts? 

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah. My final thought’s really a personal thought. I think the glamping industry is so uniquely positioned. You, you’ve said it a few times. We create these experiences, we create these memories in the outdoors.

And based on what I’ve seen, when people have these positive experiences in the outdoors and start to feel a connection and carry a memory of the outdoors, they inherently start to take care of the outdoors, care about the outdoors, follow the outdoors, care what’s happening out there in the world with our parks, with our public lands, not state lands, all of it.

And I think we’re actually uniquely positioned to help bring in more people to care about all these beautiful places, these cliffs behind me. And I just, that’s like for me, is just personally so inspiring. It’s just watching people get really excited about being outside and making that memory and experiencing something new for the first time.

And it’s an absolute honor to share that with our guests. It’s an absolute honor when I watch somebody walk in terrified and leave with a hug. To me being like, that was amazing. I know that I flipped their opinion of the outdoors and what it means to be outdoorsy, which is super cool. So that’s what I love about it and I commend everyone out there that’s doing like glamping world and bringing people onto properties and whether it’s corporate, Under Canvas, whether it’s our small business, I think it’s all awesome.

Brian Searl: And where can they learn more about Basecamp 37? 

Stephanie Kichler: Oh yeah. Our website is basecamp37.com. So basecamp37.com. That’s easy. And then we’re also on Instagram, Facebook, you can find us there. We have a YouTube page with a ton of really beautiful time lapses. Amy’s husband is a producer for TV and so he’s really good with his camera.

And a lot of our gorgeous shots come from him. Yeah. Yeah. But  basecamp37.com, find us there. 

Brian Searl: And Scott, where can they learn more about Horizon if they need third party management or all the other new services you offer too? We should talk about those at some point. ’cause I think those are good. Not specifically about you, but the idea behind helping different operators.

Scott Foos: Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. You can learn more about us at horizonoutdoors.com or email me [email protected] and would be happy to get connected. But Stephanie really well said. We always try to take the approach that we can better the world by providing really great experiences that those people will then take back into their communities.

And you doing the same, I think for the outdoors in nature itself is commendable. So thank you so much for everything that you do for the industry too. 

Stephanie Kichler: Yay. You’re welcome. 

Brian Searl: Scott, are you gonna be at OHI?

Scott Foos: Yes. We’ll be there. 

Brian Searl: You have to be at the show. You have to be on the show, OHI. I’m actually gonna hire a professional camera crew so that I don’t screw up the show, so I’m gonna hire one.

Scott Foos: No pressure.

Brian Searl: We’ll see. Yeah, see how it goes. So bring your, save your best thoughts for that. Thank you guys for joining us for the episode of MC Fireside Chats. I know we’re a little bit over. If you’re not tired of hearing from me in 57 minutes, I’m gonna be on Outwired, my other live podcast with Scott Bahr.

We’re gonna talk about Sora 2. What happens when nothing on the internet is real anymore? How do you market your campground and that kind of world and some few other things about AI and technology. So catch us there.

Otherwise, we’ll see you on another episode of MC Fireside Chats next week, guys.

See you later. 

Scott Foos: Thanks Brian. Thanks Stephanie. 

Stephanie Kichler: Bye!