MC Fireside Chats – October 11th, 2023

[00:00:00] 

Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of [00:01:00] MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks. Super excited to be here with you all for a back to back, glamping show. So we did our live show from Glamping Show USA last week. It was a great show. We’re going to certainly talk about that, recap some of the things we’ve learned again, but we covered quite a bit of it.

On that show, even though I guess the video was really blurry, Zach, so that was, I did tell you there was going to be some kind of a problem, right? It was almost something. Wi Fi was not strong enough to make it, so we all looked better. You always look good, but I look better for sure, right? Because you couldn’t see my face, it was all blurry.

But we had a great conversation, everybody could hear the audio broadcast on the podcast really well, so the audio’s great. And I think that was really awesome, and I’m sorry, is it Antz? Am I pronouncing that right? Antz? Antz, yep. Antz, okay. I got it right the first time, alright. That’s impressive for me.

It’s very rare. We got Antz on as a special guest, and then we got Chris Jeub. Is it Jeub? 

Chris Jeub: Yeah, it’s Jeub. You got it’s Brian. 

Brian Searl: Alright. Chris was gracious enough to… So I can’t [00:02:00] lie to anybody, this is my curse, right? I’m very honest to everybody. So Chris gave me this beautiful bottle of wine, and I couldn’t drink it before I left, so the TSA has it now, Chris.

Chris Jeub: This is crazy! Oh! Oh okay. 

Brian Searl: Like I had every intention on drinking it and then I got dragged to a brewery and had three flights and two Like I did not have room for wine, I would have died. That’s a great point. I tried to give it to Cara who had a luggage that she was gonna take back but she had to go somewhere else and we couldn’t connect before the airport.

I tried Chris, I really did. 

Chris Jeub: Zach, how good of wine did he pass up? 

Zach Stoltenburg: It was pretty good, it was hangover free wine. 

Chris Jeub: Zach, what did you think of the taste of that wine that you moved out on Brian? 

Brian Searl: I’m sincerely appreciative of it, but I like, I just couldn’t mislead you and say I did try, I promise you.

I tried to give it away to five or six other people to get them to take it home or to drink it or something else, but hopefully the TSA guy’s enjoying it. I actually forgot it in my carry on too, like it was in my backpack and they scanned it and they were like, Hey, wait a minute. You can’t go through here with [00:03:00] this.

So anyway, I tried all the way up until maybe getting arrested. But so it was super fun just going to the glamping show, learning from a bunch of different people. And so I want to spend some time briefly recapping that. And then just throughout this if you are, you can see we’re missing some of our special guests here, or our regular guests.

We do have a couple people who have had to step away from the show recently just due to time commitments. So if you’re watching this, if you’re in the glamping industry, we’re very much interested in maybe getting one or two people on here as a recurring guest. I’m gonna post on LinkedIn, and I did ask Zach before the show.

He knows everybody and everything, right? So I’m not as connected as Zach is. But, super excited and interested to hear from different perspectives and things that people are talking about and ways that we can provide value to the industry. Let me just start by having everybody briefly introduce themselves.

So Zach, if they don’t know what you do, you can introduce kind of clockwork and then. Ange and Chris, if you want to just tell a little bit about yourselves. 

Ansh Singh: Hey, my name is Ansh Ansh Singh, and I am the founder of The Queen Glamping. We’re trying to set this up in New Hampshire. And the picture [00:04:00] behind me is the picture that we took from the site when we actually went there to check it out the first time, the very first time in October of 2022.

And this is this is at 1520 feet elevation, and the land goes all the way up to 2100. I’m blessed to have Zach work on my site plan, and in the process became good friends, so that’s pretty good. 

Brian Searl: For those of you who have watched Fireside Chats before, we don’t do really like a bunch of hard hitting journalism here, or investigative reporting, but I do have to ask.

You said the picture behind you is the first one you took when you went to the site for the first time. Was your logo actually there in the trees, or? 

Ansh Singh: It was. 

Brian Searl: That’s, that’s a pretty good sign. I would have I would have gone through and hired Zach and done the whole process, too, if that was the case.

That’s… It was in spirit. Alright. Thank you for introducing yourself. We’re excited to learn about what quaint glamping is all about. Chris, do you want to briefly introduce yourself? 

Chris Jeub: Yes, I’m Chris Jube, the Glamping Guy. You can check me out at GlampingGuy. com. I am journaling my development, my [00:05:00] glamping properties here in Miami, Colorado.

I have two properties with 12 units at the moment. And planning on having about 24 more next, by next year. And just developing Monument Glamping. You can check out my gig at monumentglamping. com. But I, talking to other glamping operators, I is glampingguy. com. And that is helping…

Other landowners develop safe, legal, and profitable glamping operations on their private property. 

Brian Searl: Awesome, and then last but not least, of course, Mr. Zach from Clockwork. 

Zach Stoltenburg: Yeah, I’m Zach Stoltenberg. I’m with Clockwork Architects. I lead our outdoor hospitality studio, so we help owners and founders design, permit approve.

And construct their visions, their goals, their dreams for glamping resorts and other outdoor hospitality but yeah, I think, I agree with a lot of things that you said, Brian, coming off the glamping show this week really just [00:06:00] overwhelming.

The number of people that we met, the connections that we made was really exciting and powerful week for us. I actually, I came down and spent a couple of days with Chris at Monument Glamping immediately after the show. And I think I’ve decided, with these trade shows, we go out it’s two, three days, it’s…

12, 18 hour days, I meet hundreds of people. I am exhausted by the end of the show and coming down and spending a couple of days with Chris, I got to spend the night in his new big red unit, his new park model unit at Monument Glamping. I got to take a nap. I got to try some really incredible wine.

I got to sit around a campfire and chat with one of his neighbors. And I got to sleep in the next morning. I’ve decided that every trade show now. That’s how I’m going to end it. I’m just going to find a glamping resort that’s nearby and I’m going to book two days at the glamping resort. Cause I think my wife was actually grateful cause she’s used to…

Getting the remnants, the shell of me that’s left over after a week at [00:07:00] a trade show. And I came home and I was rested and recharged. We got so much stuff done on Saturday around the house, getting ready for winter. And she told me, she’s man, you kicked butt this weekend.

I said I wasn’t exhausted. I thank Chris for the monument. So yeah, I think that’s gonna be my new model for any train show. Two, two days at a glamping resort afterwards. Just to be clear so 

Brian Searl: Chris totally set me up for failure. He’s I like you Brian, but only good enough to give you a wine bottle you might have to throw away.

But I like Zach enough to take him down and let him stay a couple nights. Chats with my neighbors, give them wine, let them relax. I see how it is, Chris. Thank you. 

Zach Stoltenburg: It was an official visit. We had some meetings with the county officials as well to discuss some of the planning and zoning changes that he’s going through with Monument right now.

Chris Jeub: Yeah, it actually was. It was a very successful business meeting. Got some good business done. Zach was able to see both of my properties and we’re gonna be we’re gonna be working together in the future for this. It’s a business slash pleasure [00:08:00] trip. It was a pleasure to have you there, Zach.

Brian Searl: It’s all right. I’m not okay. No one wants to me. It’s the same. 

I just, I set them up for not wanting to do that. But anyway, yeah it was super impressive, just the, like you’re talking about, Zach, the breadth of knowledge and the classes and the people we meet and specific to your trade show comment about resting and recovering, this is one of the reasons, like, when I very first started at trade shows, probably in the campground industry, like 2011, 12, I was just going for a couple of days to be an exhibitor and then I was flying home.

And so that was either a day and then it was airports on either side of that, or it was half a day or whatever it was. And I think I realized very quickly that I needed that, not necessarily the rest and recharge, because I still don’t do that. I have too much to do on my plate. Less back then. But I did realize that helping, like staying for the entire conference, for all the sessions, for the slower paced things, instead of just standing on your feet for, 10 hours at your trade show or whatever that is.

Kind of helps balance that, but [00:09:00] also lots of business gets done outside of just standing at the expo, too. And the more you know the owners, the more you chat with them, the more you can learn from their stories, their struggles, their pain points, the better you’re able to help them. So that’s what kind of, I know that’s not exactly the same thing we’re talking about, but I understand.

Zach Stoltenburg: For me it was a perfect way to end the show, and I really appreciate it. Thanks to Chris for hosting me for those couple days. Hey, you bet. 

Brian Searl: Maybe next year we’ll have a big party and stuff. 

Chris Jeub: Fill up all the cans. 

Zach Stoltenburg: At the new site. At the new site. Cause we’ll have all that done and ready to go.

Ansh Singh: Hey Brian, not that I want to burn you, Chris did invite me too. 

Brian Searl: Alright, bye. 

Zach Stoltenburg: Actually, there… Chris had a couple of us from the show that came down. His site was only about an hour and a half south of Arapahoe, so nice work Brian. 

Brian Searl: Literally probably the entire show came, except for me. I understand.

Chris Jeub: No, but seriously, there was a lady that went [00:10:00] to the perfect customer that we’re really, this whole podcast is really dialed into. She’s looking to invest in some property and start a glamping operation. So she came to the glamping show, learned a bunch, and then she booked my tent for the same night that Zach was there.

And we invited her up for the wine and stuff, and we just sat and talked shop for a couple hours. It was a lot of fun. 

Brian Searl: And that’s what I really like doing, right? It’s and this is part of the reason you’ll see me at some of the conferences organizing all the get togethers, because no one else wants to do it, and bringing people to bars and restaurants, and we rented half the patio, I think, on Monday night at Lazy Dog, right?

And had a bunch of people over there because those conversations, whether they’re at Chris’s Monument Glamping, or at a restaurant, or a bar, or at the trade show, it’s To me, those are invaluable, just from a learning, knowledge, communication, networking standpoint. Because the more I know, the more I can either help people or direct them to somebody who can [00:11:00] help them, or they can help me, right?

I think those the Glamping School is really unique for me. I don’t know, Zach, you’ve been to Arvick, right? You were at Arvick last year? 

Zach Stoltenburg: Yeah, we’ve gone to Arvick the last couple of years, and I’m actually really looking forward to it this year because it’s in Kansas City. It’s in our backyard, excited to, to share our city with the rest of the outdoor hospitality world. So really looking forward to it. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure. I’ll be there and then I think it’s two weeks as well, but just the point I wanted to make was like, it’s a different kind of feel, right? And both conferences are amazing but I think that the glamping show to me has a little bit more of a personal feel given that there’s not dozens of breakout sessions and a ton of education and everybody’s not in a bad way, but every split into 10 different education sessions going on at the same time.

And I think the glamping show just feels a little bit more personal to me. There seems to be, maybe this is true or not, but it appears to be there’s a little bit more networking opportunities, chances to have conversations, things like that. So overall, just, I talked to David on [00:12:00] Monday, just recapping some of that stuff.

We wrote an article on Modern Campground. Just really, everybody seems to be super happy with all the things that David is doing. And obviously Reuben and the team and everybody who helps him. Yeah, just consistently come away impressed from that show.

Chris Jeub: What’s RVIC again? 

Zach Stoltenburg: Is it’s an association of campground owners. It really, it started out more focused on the RV side, but Every campground owner is waking up and tuning into Glamping Now. And the show, it’s the Outdoor Hospitality Conference in Expo, O H C E hosted this year, the first week of November in Kansas City.

I think you can still get tickets. I think that there’s still admission available. There is some of the same vendors will be at O H C E that were at the glamping show. Some of the big folks that, that we love and that we do a lot of work with but it’s certainly some, it’s a much bigger show.

Than the Glamping Show, so a lot more attendees, a [00:13:00] lot more vendors and exhibitors and really anything that’s related to campgrounds or outdoor hospitality. And it’s it’s similar to what Brian was talking about, right? It’s a place where a lot of business gets done. And then right on the heels of that is the Campground Owners Expo COE in Springfield.

Missouri or Branson? Branson, Missouri, Branson. And that’s, I think a week or two after O H C E. Is that a good show? And that one is, that one’s a non-membership. So it’s ARV is it’s their annual meeting for all the AR members campground owners. Expo is it’s the independent operators, right?

The people that.

This is going to be our first year going to COE. I’ve had lots of partners and lots of people that we work with that go every year. They’ve always talked about what an incredible show it is. And that it’s not like a repeat of RVIC, that it’s different people, it’s different groups, it’s different vendors, we’re going to go this year. [00:14:00] And actually one of our clients one of our independent hotel clients just opened a new boutique hotel in Branson. So we’re going to go down and stay with them for a couple of days and go to the CLE show. 

Brian Searl: I’d love to hear your thoughts on that after you go, like I may end up going myself, like I’ve heard I’ve tried to go two years in a row.

I think last year I was in Europe. So that was a little bit more of a priority for me. No offense, Lori. But, and the reason we’re talking about all these shows, by the way, just to clarify, on a glamping we’re talking about campground and RV park owners, but this is a big piece of the glamping space as well, and maybe arguably where it’s, where it got its foundations is the campground owners starting to add, cabins could be considered glamping loosely but some of the yurts and tents and different teepees and things like that to their campgrounds, and obviously they’re too big.

Yeah. Different worlds, but same, right? Glamping on a campground is not the same as glamping with 20 yards of space between you and, right? And then there’s definitely a place and audience for both, but they all tie into that same kind of category. And and you forgot about KOA is in the middle [00:15:00] too.

So I’ll be at the KOA show the week after RVIC there in Las Vegas, yeah. But yeah it’s just, yeah, 

Zach Stoltenburg: I think the advantage of the shows is, especially more on the RV side, I think, is that it’s a more established industry. So a lot of those vendors, a lot of those members they’re folks that have been doing this for 20 and 30 years.

A lot of the institutional capital and the banks and the financing side that’s available there’s certainly, there was probably more at the GLAMPIC show this year than there’s ever been before, which is great to see that coming in. But I would compare OHCE to, So like the lodging conference in the traditional hospitality world.

You go to the lodging conference, there’s reps from Marriott and Hilton and, all the major chains, everybody is there. And that’s what OHCE is. It’s, all these established campground owners people that have a lot of power and influence in the industry.

People that have done this successfully for decades and really understand what they’re doing. [00:16:00] Maybe own four or five, six different locations. And like I said, some of the, the great vendors, I’ve already got plans with the guys from Conestoga cause, cause they’ll be there. They’re great partners of ours.

We love what they do. And we’ve been doing business together for several years. And I said, no, I said, I want you guys to come out. We’re going to host you at my house. We’ll have the campfire going and we’ll do some drinks. We’ll grill some steaks. I’m going to host those guys on, I think on Monday night when they get in.

So I’m really looking forward to some of that 

Brian Searl: as well. Yeah. The personal connections, right? And it’s interesting to me, the different types of audiences too, because you mentioned RVIC is bigger. I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s the case. I do know they’re very close, but I think it’s a different type of audience.

Like you’re describing. I think the majority of people coming to the glamping show or for the expo, they have, Probably arguably the free tickets to the expo and a lot of them, like there certainly was a ton of people who paid for education at Glamping. But there’s for sure way more people at RVIC who are paying for the education and sessions and who have those [00:17:00] established like I’ve been in 40 years and have that kind of knowledge and things. So it’s an interesting, it’s interesting to see both sides of it in both perspectives. 

Zach Stoltenburg: I think the Glamping show still has a lot of people that are in that startup mode, that are trying to get going and looking for land or maybe they’re in… Like Chris, first couple of years in business, they’re looking to expand and grow and get more established in the industry.

I feel like RVIC, there certainly are some of those folks there, but I’m going to guess, probably three quarters of people at the show are established operators that, have history, have background, have experience. And they’re still interested in the education side is what can we do better, what are, these are challenges, these are struggles that we’re seeing, this is feedback we’re getting from guests.

And they love the opportunity to network with other people from all over the country. That said here’s what we did at our site. Here’s what’s worked for us. There’s a lot of more like round table discussions and panel discussions. A lot of new things [00:18:00] get debuted at OHCE.

So a lot of the like third party management companies that have launched in the last couple of years or last year, they made those announcements at OHCE. I think last year they had the big push that I saw at OHC last year was with electric vehicles. Rivian was there and signing people up to be charge locations for Rivian and they had one of their R1Ts on display.

Airstream debuted their all EV model like the week before RVIC, I think. And so there’s, there tends to be industry trends, but a lot of that kind of happens. And a lot of those announcements are made around this time of year. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. And I think it’s interesting to me too, that I lost my train of thought now, sorry. I had to cough and then I was, my eye was watering, but anyway, it’ll come back to me. I was going to say something nice about RVIC. Oh, the establishment of the nature of RVIC, right? So I think because RVIC has been around for so long, they’ve been doing their trade shows for so long and arguably compared to that.

The Glamping [00:19:00] Show is relatively newer, right? Even though they’ve been around for, was it 5, 6 years now? Something like that? I think, I was talking to David about this on Monday when we were having just our call to catch up on some of those things and get some quotes for Modern Campground. And I asked him, I said, how do you, as you continue to go forward and the glamping industry continues to get more established, there’s more operators who have been in this for not just 2, 3 years, but 5, 6, 10 years.

Do you then extend the conference? Does the education change? Do you have classes geared toward more senior operators to continue their learning path? And he said, we’ll see how that goes as we come, but we’re pretty comfortable. Like in the day one, Monday is geared toward the early owner operators, as I think you spoke at, Zach.

And so I think they do have some of those tracks separated as is, but it’s going to be interesting to see how it continues to evolve and how we can continue, David and the team can continue to meet the needs of all the different types of camping operators. 

Zach Stoltenburg: At this point, I’d settle for just choosing a [00:20:00] location that has Wi Fi and internet service available.

That was my biggest challenge at the show. You meet someone, you try to connect with them, trying to use QR codes and things, and being in a facility that had no Wi Fi and no cell service was really, I felt is holding back the show a little bit. And I’m sure that they’ve heard it, I know they heard it a lot last year because, I was really hoping that maybe this year would be the year that they finally figured it out and it fell flat again.

Brian Searl: I will tell you, like we did, like they did have Wi Fi last year, right? And I think one of the big problems they run into is just the urban or the rural area of it, there’s limited bandwidth. And I think last year it was there, it just didn’t work. It was overwhelmed with so many people. And so I think this year they made just the conscious decision to limit it, I think, to the exhibitors, is what I heard.

I don’t know if that’s true. I wasn’t an exhibitor, so I didn’t have it. But, just to make sure that they could do those things at their booth, and have those, be able to do demos and things like that. So yeah, you’re right. It definitely for sure is a challenge. I feel [00:21:00] like, if there was a way they could solve it easily, they would have done it.

But, yeah. I agree, it was a struggle for me too, because I can’t get cell phone reception in that tin metal box or whatever. 

Zach Stoltenburg: I do want to make sure we have enough time to get to Ange and Chris too, just for each one of them to share their stories and tell us a little bit more about what they’re doing.

Brian Searl: I like to float off into space, so let’s start with Ange because we’ve heard Chris has been on the show before and he’s going to be a regular guest. We’re definitely going to get to you Chris, but Ange, go ahead, let’s hear your story. 

Ansh Singh: What can I say? So I started my venture in April 2022 that’s when I, my, my wife’s birthday is in March, so March 5th, and when the COVID was tapering out for a couple of years, I couldn’t find any place for her to celebrate her birthday, and she was not, she was getting very anxious about getting out of the house and stuff like that stumbled upon this Airbnb at that time was Advertising, staycations and what was that[00:22:00] fancy getaways, so there was an A frame picture in Ohio there, that’s what they were advertising on their front page.

And so those kind of piqued my interest and that’s how things got started. So from April To October 2022 I continued to find, try to find a land, a good land, and I was in contact with Ruben at that time, so we had several conversations about, okay, what do we do and what not. I came to the last American Glamping Show and so we had some conversations going and he said you gotta find a land and stumbled upon a couple of places, couple of landowners ditched me, so that all happened.

In this process, I educated myself with at least 100 to 120 towns between New Hampshire and Vermont. Their zoning ordinances, their town people. I I had a very good idea where this thing is going to fly and where this thing is not going to fly. Towards, I would say as soon as I came back from the glamping show, I had a very [00:23:00] good idea where I’m going to go find the land.

And luckily, as soon as I came back within a week, I got a call from one of the realtors that I was working with that there’s a land that’s going to come on sale maybe in a week. All right, sign me up. And came to see this land, and same day we said, all right, we’re buying this. And that’s where the decision occurred.

December, we bought the land, closed the land. And, I spoke to Zach, I believe in December, and Zach came to visit us in January and then we cranked up an entire site plan with all the engineering drawings, everything done by mid May. So from Zach’s plan in January to closing out with town by mid May that’s our cycle time.

And ever since… And 

Zach Stoltenburg: Ansh, to his credit, all the groundwork, all the analysis that he did [00:24:00] in looking for the right site, his site was already zoned for lodging. And part of the site was zoned for commercial, for restaurant. So as we approached the site design, we knew exactly where everything was going to go.

And he got unanimous approval from the township. On his plans and we got, a lot of the questions that neighbors typically have and we, were able to address that through the public hearings and the meetings, but because I’ve spent so much time looking for the right site and the right jurisdiction to work with and the right zoning to be in place it really was a seamless process.

It’s one of the best that we’ve been involved with. Very straightforward. So that, to his credit, he’s being humble. He has an incredible property he’s surrounded by ski resorts, he backs up to the White Mountain National Forest, he’s less than a half a day drive from three major metropolitan areas and he, had his market analysis and his numbers for the area and [00:25:00] everything in place already.

So he really did a lot of things right that made… Made the piece that we do really easy on that, 

Brian Searl: and I think this is very important to highlight what you’re talking about, right? The preparation and the education and the willingness to do a lot of this legwork or to figure out that it even needs done in the beginning because that makes the whole process, as you’re describing, much easier.

It goes smoother, you can convince people, you can get unanimous consent, you can find the right land that you need, it can be zoned already, right? And that makes your life easier. And even me coming in I’ve never attempted to buy real estate. I’m not brave enough to run a glamping operation or anything.

I’ve just got to sit here in my low cave and do marketing. But we were the last night of the glamping show, we put together an outing. We went to a little brewery and we took Scott Baer with us, who did the North American glamping report of the show. And on the way over, he was like, everybody kept coming up to us at our booth and they’re asking us for feasibility studies, but we don’t do feasibility studies.

It’s I wish there was somebody, [00:26:00] like we could just send them to, who did, and I know there’s people who do feasibility studies as well, right? But it was just a casual conversation, and so we pulled up ChatGPT on this ride over here, and we had it create an example custom feasibility study.

And there’s a lot that owners just don’t think about, and I think there’s a big opportunity here to be educated by The Glamping Show, by different tools and software and resources to get yourself in a position like Anj is in. To just make your life a whole lot easier. And yes, it’s hard in the beginning, but you’re setting yourself up for such greater success.

Ansh Singh: Yeah, thanks for bringing that up, Zach. Before we actually bought the land in December, I did go to town and said, hey, conceptual review, I’m trying to open a glamping site and I’m planning to buy this land in your town. Are you okay with that? And people didn’t raise any eyebrows. They were like, they asked a bunch of questions and I obviously didn’t have any answers.

But I said these look, sounds like technical [00:27:00] questions. So as soon as I get to that level, I’m going to come back to you. So when we went to present our site plan, everybody knew what to expect. They already knew me, they saw me last time, or actually two times before that, and and we were there prepared, they already had all the paperwork, all the site plan in their hands when we started to present it, and coming out of that, coming out of that meeting, I laughed really hard.

The planning board chair said thank you for bringing such a cool project over town. And we came out of the conference room and Zach said nobody clapped. I’m like, really? You wanted people to clap at this? 

Zach Stoltenburg: I’ve had that, I’ve had that happen. 

Ansh Singh: It was like a very good moment that, Oh my God, we worked so fricking hard to get to the stage and we got it all passed.

Now what? Now we need money. Yes, now we need money. So ever since I have I have been [00:28:00] making or modifying, tweaking my business model to fit different things and different quotes or changing my geometry on how things are going to work. There was obviously some assumptions that I made in the beginning.

Every, every bank I have approached. Nobody said no a clear no, we can’t do this. They’re like numbers look nice. And I think the one thing that I’m I made, one more thing that I did right is I spoke to Connor from Sage Outdoor Advisory at The Glamping Show.

And and I said, all right, I’ll tell you what do you need, what do you need in a feasibility, what do you do in a feasibility study? He explained, oh, we make a 100 page report, we write this XYZ, and we’ll tell you what the operating cost is going to be, we’ll tell you what investment cost is going to be, and we’ll tell you how much revenue you’re going to make.

I said I can go and get all the quotes from the vendors, and I can come up with a cost, incoming cost from the vendors directly. And at max, I can slap a 10 percent on top of [00:29:00] it as a contingency 15 percent if bank is not happy so that will cover that. In terms of recurring expenses, yes, I can contact somebody from hospitality management and I can get some feedback on, if I’m missing something, my assumptions.

I can cover that portion. Why don’t you just help me with the market analysis? He helped me pull together market analysis. Which came really helpful because then I can, I was able to constrain How much do I need to put in so that I can get everything out in a decent payback time? So we did all of this by the site plan meeting and then ever since I’ve been trying to keep up with the funding side of things so Hopefully, when we get the funding squared away, we’ll be able to start digging around.

Brian Searl: I think what’s interesting to me, Aj, and I’d love for you to expand on it a little bit and then certainly it could go to Chris, too, for the same question, is as you [00:30:00] started your journey into glamping and you just said whatever the story was, you could tell it I woke up one morning, decided to do glamping, whatever it was, from that point where you didn’t really know anything about glamping until your first glamping show, until you connect with Zach, until you’re here, what do you feel like has… changed in your understanding and your own kind of words along that path? What led you down certain paths and is there anything you would do differently? You’re advised to an owner who’s trying to follow that same path. 

Ansh Singh: Certainly. Oh my God. 

Brian Searl: That’s a lot. Feel free to load it anytime.

Ansh Singh: Oh, that’s a loaded question. 

So depending upon where you are in your glamping journey, this question can be answered.

Brian Searl: In several different ways. Let me just start by saying, I’m sorry, but I’d love to just hear how you did it first and then maybe write some advice because I think your journey is more important. We want to hear about quaint glamping is what I’d love to hear.

Ansh Singh: Yeah, so I, I am a vivid hiker. I like to hike and I have [00:31:00] hiked Katahdin Mountain, which is tallest in the entire East Coast. I haven’t hiked the Colorado side of things because by that time I was married and I started to have kids, plan to have kids and stuff like that. But I do plan to hike Himalayas next time we go to India.

I’m training myself to get to that level so we can at least get to the base camp and and then call it a day at that point. But but that, every time I’ve been to New Hampshire, I have, I’ve lived in South Carolina, so I know all Smoky Mountains. I have hiked every single one of them at least twice, if not three times.

And rough, to roughest height I have done that in South Carolina and North Carolina and Tennessee. Beautiful place. When I came here in the New England side of things what I learned is most of the campgrounds, they were all on the valley side. You bring your car and you come to the valley, a very flat area, and you park your car there, and you park your camper there, and you look up on the [00:32:00] mountains, and and you have a stream, which is nice, which is also beautiful.

Nice, don’t get me wrong. But I wanted to look down and look straight up and see the world. That has always been my thing. That, because I’m a hiker, that was like in my brain, unconsciously, that I wanted to go up to the height and then look down or look straight and I should be able to see the world.

So that’s what motivated me to get to this land. But the more and more I learned about the kind of land that I picked I feel like… That we’re investing little heavily to develop it because it’s that terrain because it’s on a mountain we have to make, we have to do due diligence, and the permitting government permitting process requires us to do due diligence to make sure The roads are properly paved and designed.

The fill and cut is properly done. The AOT permits cuts off at, 100, 000 square feet [00:33:00] of fill and cut. And the grade is very important because if something catches fire not that anything is going to catch fire, but things catch fire randomly anyway. So our department is like what if a lightning strike occurs and the grass catches fire because that has happened in New Hampshire So he’s like I want to I won’t be able to get on top of whatever you’re gonna put up on your land and so thou shalt bring make a road and Not knowing the slope of my land being 30 percent actually hit really hard in the excavation costs, so If I had known all of these things ahead of time, I’d probably picked either an entire mountain, where I can go in circles and go all the way up or not pick a mountain to put up a land on, but something with a flat area down below and a mountain land that people can hike up to. When they wanted to.

Brian Searl: But then you wouldn’t have had your view over everything. 

Ansh Singh: We would still, we’d still [00:34:00] would, because I would have a flat land where people can go and stay, knowing not much excavation cost, but I would make a trail for people to walk up to the land. Go up and see it, okay. Go up and see stuff.

Brian Searl: I feel like it’s gonna turn out way better with more struggles, like that usually the better things have more struggles, yes. 

Zach Stoltenburg: And I say it all the time that the sites that are the best locations for glamping are usually the most difficult to develop because they come with all those challenges. 

Brian Searl: 100%. 

Alright, let’s talk to Chris in the same question, Chris, if you want to. And we’re gonna tell a little bit about your… 

Chris Jeub: I forgot what the question was, Brian. It was a long one. 

Brian Searl: It was… Give me whatever wisdom you want to impart on us. 

Chris Jeub: Yeah. Okay, what has changed in my… In your journey, right?

Brian Searl: From start to where you are today as far as knowledge and… 

Chris Jeub: Okay, sounds good. We started glamping in 2019. My wife and I did. I fell into the glamping world. I didn’t even know it existed, honestly. I built a platform in my [00:35:00] backyard instead of… and erected my hunting tent. Instead of sleeping in our living room for a month during the remodel.

And we loved it. And we threw it up on Airbnb just to see what happened. We booked out the rest of the summer. It was, 2, 400 on my camping gear. I thought I made out like a bandit. So that’s how it started. And then, so now we’re just finishing up our fifth season of glamping with what I explained before, 12 units.

And we want to grow even more. Three things that are on my kind of agenda, other than operating the glamping sites is a second special, a special use that I’m that I failed the first review, which isn’t surprising. That’s not a big deal, but I’m gearing up for a second review that will have, More sites and everything, and so we’re pulling all those pieces together.

It’s going to take some time and effort. The second thing that I’m focused on is the modification of my original special use. Maybe your guests don’t know what a special use is. A special [00:36:00] use permit is something you get from the county. That uses the rural residential property that I own in a certain special way.

And there’s certain things that are allowed in the zone that I’m in. And what is it? It’s a recreation camp.

And another thing that’s really on my mind right now is I have a neighborhood uprising going right now. Check it out at Next Door Neighbor if you do a search for Pine Hills in the subdivision in Colorado. I’ve got a bunch of neighbors, it’s actually one neighbor who’s really stirring up a ruckus, sending letters out to the neighborhood and being really hard.

She’s… She’s really the classic not in my backyard type of person. She doesn’t talk to you. She doesn’t talk to anybody in the neighborhood. Yeah. But she’s very angry at me for doing what I’m doing. [00:37:00] And and she’s got she gained some traction. In fact, Zach said that we talked to a neighbor.

There was a neighbor who I’ve been friends with for 23 years who got caught into the lie. This person who’s It’s spreading lies about me and it was frustrating to have a old friend believe it for a while. I think I’m turning them but the idea of dealing with neighbors who do not want what you have in the property, but on the other side of that and dealing with the planning department who’s actually making you do all the stuff you need to do to get that special use permit.

So it’s like you’re playing It’s like we’ve become little politicians it’s glamping development. 

Brian Searl: Let me ask you this, if you were to go back to that point where you started, with all the knowledge you have today, would you still do it in your backyard or would you buy land like Ange did?

Chris Jeub: Oh, I do it in my backyard. Okay, I’m just curious, is why? 

Zach Stoltenburg: The cost, I almost own my house, [00:38:00] which is, not anymore, because I took a HELOC off my property to develop the glamping operation, so that’s how I’m self funded, so I’ve self funded everything so far. And and that, that’s probably the reason why I know my property.

I grew into it, the first year I only had that one site, and then the second year I did two sites, and the third year I did six sites and partnered with my neighbor. For And now I have eight sites in the province. So it was I could have done it any which way, Brian. If I could go back with my, with the crystal ball, nah, I think I liked learning as I went and I’m still learning as I go. So anyway, but as far as the neighborhood as far as the neighbors go there’s nothing I could do to please that one neighbor, that’s the way it goes, but I do have land rights as a landowner, and that’s the kind of hat I gotta wear when I go to the commission and ask for the special use.

I’m fulfilling all the criteria. It’s a change of mind. Zach and I got into a pretty good conversation about how the… [00:39:00] How a glamping operator should see their rights as a landowner, you’re not really given permission to do a glamping operation. You’re fulfilling requirements that they’re already, that they already have in line for you.

The planning department can even deny me, and I can still go to commission and get it. And get my special use. It’s a kind of a little, it’s a little bit of politics and understanding who the commissioners are, and… I hired a lawyer who used to be a commissioner and and his go. I think I’m, I actually, I’m 99% confident that I will get what I want as far as the modification goes.

And even the second special use. I don’t have any neighborhood opposition at all. So it’s, I live in a county that wants landowners to do exactly what I’m doing, , and that’s what. It doesn’t really matter what the neighbor wants. I want the neighbor to be on my side and understand me and when they misunderstand what I’m trying to do or exaggerate what is happening.[00:40:00] 

I’m being accused of just setting up an RV park in the middle of a neighborhood and that’s just, it’s just not true. But but it doesn’t quite matter what this one neighbor thinks. I’m setting up a beautiful thing that our master plan in El Paso County in Colorado Encourage it. I pull quotes out in my letter of intent to the county that actually explain, this is what you said in the master plan.

You want landowners to develop these kinds of things, like recreation camps. Here I am. I’m a landowner and I’m ready to set up a glamping a glamping camp. So the commissioners get it. It’s just some neighbors, when something wants to be done in their neighborhood, they’re just naturally against it.

In fact, there’s a good point. I was explaining this to quite a few people. I have found this very interesting. That neighbors, when, if you come, if you live in a neighborhood and you want to start something in a [00:41:00] neighborhood, or even buy a piece of land in the neighborhood and want to start something, neighbors very naturally will be against it.

23 years, my buddy up the road is against it. It’s just this is odd, but I’m used to that. They naturally will get it. If a glamping operation already exists in a neighborhood, and someone wants to move into it, they think it’s the coolest thing in the world, that there’s a glamping operation down the street!

So they’re like, hey, I’m buying a piece of property, I’ve got this guy who’s got these tents and tiny homes out on his property. I think that’s cool. So it’s a, it’s a state of mind that we just have to deal with as glamping operators or glamping developers, or like many developers, really.

We’re not just glamping operators, we’re developing property to offer outdoor and semi outdoor places to stay, venues, and it’s wonderful. 

Brian Searl: I think it’s important to you, and Zach, I want to just call you out, not call you out but talk to you for a second. Just about, like, when I [00:42:00] first met you, I remember, I can’t remember whether it was online or wherever it was but the first impression I had of you was just like, really smart guy, but does design, he’s an architect, right?

And obviously that just comes from an ignorance perspective of not understanding all the things that architects do, let alone your firm, right? But I think it’s really important to emphasize and maybe lay out some of the different ways that Clockwork and even other vendors like Connor and stuff like that are just able to be so versatile and help in so many different ways besides just what typical like drawings that an architect, people might have the wrong perception of what an architect is narrowly doing.

Zach Stoltenburg: No, I think it’s a good question. It’s a good point. And honestly, the answer is hard for me to give because… I tell a lot of the folks that I talk to, and I’ve done nothing but phone calls since I got home from the show, talking with people around the country that want to open glamping resorts [00:43:00] I tell them all the same thing, which is we will do as much or as little as you want us to do.

A lot of the clients that we work with they are very active and they’re engaged, like I said, to Ansh’s credit he already had a lot of the things, underway and had done his homework and was very well versed on it. And, that was a fun project for us because we got to come in and just do the creative side of things, right?

He the great logo that you see next to him that, that was already in place and we could take design cues from that and work with that, a lot of the folks that talk to us, they need all of those things, and we can help them do that. But we also work with, very engaged folks that are doing a lot of that themselves.

Chris, to his credit, he’s been doing this five years in the glamping industry. That makes a grandfather of the industry. You’re old hat at this point, right? Like you got it down. And when we engage with Chris he needs this one very specific thing that we can help him do he doesn’t need help.[00:44:00] 

Understanding client experience. He’s knocking that out of the park, right? Creating those guest experiences, engaging with people. He’s one of the best hosts that I’ve met and I got to benefit from that last week. And those are things that, those are the conversations that we have with our clients.

The questions that we ask the things that they haven’t thought about, and then certainly, all the permitting, planning, approval. But our services don’t really stop there. We’ve got several clients that are in construction right now and tried to hire a GC who are we going to work with?

Who can actually take this crazy drawing that we put together to get, as a team, somebody has got to execute on that. The questions that come up during construction. I’m actually really excited. We’ve got two projects that have been on a struggle a little bit, some of it on the permitting side, some of it, just like Chris, dealing with some neighbors and just in the last two weeks, both of those projects have broken loose.

So one is officially going to start with construction. They’ve onboarded their GC.[00:45:00] And they will be hopefully ready to open by next spring. And coincidentally, the GC that they hired just finished building another glamping resort. So they said, yes, we absolutely understand this, we get it, we know the model.

So it was a great contact to make so I’m super excited for them. Yeah, our, another project it’s been on hold almost a year. We did all the drawings, all the documentation went to planning and zoning and the project got denied. And the reason that they denied it was uncertainty about the septic system and the well and the water system that was there.

And we’ve spent the last, I don’t know, six months or more having an entire septic system engineered and designed and then permitted through the state. to get approval on that. Same with the well. And we’re preparing to go back into planning and zoning for that. Because the two issues that they cited as the reason to not approve the project, those are both resolved now and those permits [00:46:00] have been issued by the state.

And sometimes it is a struggle to get through some of those things. And I think a lot of people don’t… Don’t realize that, the time it takes sometimes to get some of these things done and we’re 

Ansh Singh: Once you’re done, I want to add but go ahead. 

Zach Stoltenburg: Sure. But, finally, after almost a year of delays, that project is going to be moving forward.

And hopefully we can get a lot done over the winter. They’re in a fairly temperate climate and hopefully they can get, a couple things going and open it on the ground before spring. And so I think, the last thing that I would say is just… All the clients, everybody that we work with, it’s a partnership, we’re investing in them as a developer, as an owner, we’re investing in their project.

We want to see them successful. So sometimes these start and stop, sometimes we’re having birthdays with some of our clients, but we’re still there to support them any way that we can. And it’s [00:47:00] the thing that I love about being in this industry because it’s, we’re all just people.

We’re people connecting with other people. Who want to start a business that allows people to connect to other people. 

Brian Searl: And I think Anja, I will let you talk, I promise. But that’s what my point is why I think there’s, and obviously I’m maybe unfairly lumping this into two groups, but, and definitely not saying one is better than the other, but I think there’s two types of vendors when you’re looking to get products or services for your glamping business, campground, RV park, whatever business you’re doing.

And I think one is the very narrow vendor that can help you with a very specific solution. They’re experts in that area. They do it very well, but they really just aren’t going to do anything for you except that, right? Maybe an online reservation system or something like that. And then I think there are the expansive service providers like the Clockworks and the Sage Outdoors and the people like that who are able to do more of a broad scope of things because it falls under their purview naturally as architects or consultants or, [00:48:00] right?

Feasibility studies, things like that. But then you can tell the difference between the people who have that broader scope but are willing to forcibly broaden it even more to do whatever it takes to help you succeed. And I think that we’re seeing very clearly those people tend to float to the top of the pack as leaders in the industry.

And so again, not saying one is better than the other, they’re all just different. And I think you need to be mindful of that when you’re trying to go out and find service, product and services providers for your business. 

Ansh Singh: And that’s exactly what I wanted to comment on is before I met Zach, I had a engineering firm on the team from local, from New Hampshire.

And they did offer me that, Hey, we can create our site plan and they were charging me 50 percent of what Zach fees was. And I said, okay let’s start the conversation. So we had a kickoff and the first question that the guy asked me. So where do you want me to put these domes? I’m like, okay, we’re not having, we’re not continuing this conversation anymore.[00:49:00] 

So that was the thing that I moved over. I said, all right, I need an architect. And but when I did interview at least five additional architects. And where I draw the line is, like you said, Brian, very clearly. People who are really good, they will do their own job with blinders on either side.

But people who can fill the cracks beyond the blinders, they would lead the pack. So Zach in this case, hats off to you, man. He not only he I gave him an idea of this is what I’m looking for. He designed everything and I asked him random questions that, okay, you designed this at 100 feet away from the other dome.

What is the elevation difference? And he had that answer. So he thought about it ahead of time. He didn’t wait for me to answer, ask the question, and then, go poke his model and answer that. No he thought about it. He’s very detailed and and not only that, when we went out to the site plan meeting, I was [00:50:00] stumped at a couple of things.

For example, our domes are more than 400 square feet area. And campgrounds limit at 400 square feet area, in our area at least, in New Hampshire. And ours are more than that. So one of the argument was, we don’t want another campground in the area, we have got plenty. The planning board chair said, oh, this is not going to be a campground, because their domes are larger than 500 square feet.

Wait a minute, so the building code applies, and I had no clue how to answer that. And Zach… Differentiated from other architects. He had, he has been on his Town Council DAC, or Planning Board or something, so he knew exactly what they’re asking. He knew a lot of those answers that the people there, the neighbors, he knew exactly where they’re coming from.

He was like bam. And I was so blessed to have him there. I’m like, dude, you go ahead, Chris. 

Chris Jeub: I gotta piggyback on that one because that’s exactly what happened in Colorado Springs. [00:51:00] Zach, I’m gonna butter you up here a little bit because the situation… 

Brian Searl: But see, you’ll also notice too, when you say this, he’s humble, and that’s how the best people will react too.

Chris Jeub: Yeah he, this is what happened, is that I was being required to go to a commercial zoning requirement for my tents. And, because I had eight tents, and it was just, it was, that, that’s what the building department said, and they just said that’s what the code says. Anything over five rooms.

In a rentable unit rentable space needs to be permanent commercial. That means I’d have to put sprinklers in my tents and things like that. It would just be ridiculous. And it’d be very expensive too, to follow that standard. So Zach and I went to this meeting with the bureaucrats, with the PPRBD, Pikes Peak Regional Building Department.

And they had their three ring binders, three inch binders out, and they were turning up, they were trying to figure it out. Zach very cleverly, and he spoke their language, honestly. I didn’t, everything was going over my head when they were talking. [00:52:00] But they were talking about the different codes, and how to get me into a residential.

We did come up with a plan. And in fact, they came up with it, and Zach kind of led them right down the path. I’m limiting myself to five tents. And then I and the other three on my property that I’m permitted for are going to be RVs and or park models. So that was a solution to the problem that they had with fitting me, Weird Glamper, into the code that they had to enforce in our county.

And it works. And it actually plugs into what I’m fighting with my neighbors on right now is a modification I might especially use. Because I was going to go all RVs, or all glamping units, I was trying to redefine the give a term to the code or to the county, and they weren’t, the county wasn’t really buying it.

But now, because of that meeting, I’m going to the county and saying, actually all I want is three RVs. And that satisfies neighbors, [00:53:00] and that satisfies the county. And that, all those pieces are falling into place right now. And that was because Zach guided the whole process. 

Brian Searl: Zach, you want to just finish up?

Ansh Singh: Okay, go ahead. 

Zach Stoltenburg: To the credit of the BPRBD, I think, when we walked in. The two guys that we met with, they, they really wanted to work with Chris, and I think they were very supportive of what he’s trying to do, he’s got a great presence in his community he’s very involved he serves on boards, he volunteers, different organizations, he’s hosted different groups out there he’s worked very hard to establish a good reputation, both of who he is as a person, and who Monument Glamping is coming into that meeting, there really wasn’t any adversarial tone.

I think that the guys that we met with really said, we want to figure out how to make this work. And they really worked hard for us and said, if we do this way, then this applies. And if we do this way, then this applies. I was able to [00:54:00] say, this is the way that we’ve looked at this elsewhere in the country.

This is the way other jurisdictions have handled these and these are some of the benefits of doing it that way. These are some of the restrictions that we have to agree to if we do it this way. And, we were able to work it out with them. They gave us a very clear path that still fits very much in line with what Chris is trying to do.

He didn’t have to make, any huge concessions or, accept any restrictions on that in order for him to keep doing what he’s doing. And I think, taking that spirit of it, of, working with your jurisdiction, working with your neighbors, having those discussions is always the best approach and it’s what we try to do.

And I think, we’ve shown that works, right? If we know the guidelines, we know exactly what we’re going to be required to do, we present a well thought out plan. We want to give them something that they can say yes to. And that’s what happened with Ansh. Yeah, absolutely.

That’s why Ansh got unanimous approval. We gave them a plan that was well thought out [00:55:00] that they could say yes to. And Chris hearing, I’m guessing, will be coming up in the next month or so. I don’t know when. Our goal is to get a plan together that, that follows exactly the code path that the county officials gave us.

Let’s put something in front of them that they can say yes to.

Brian Searl: Anyway, I didn’t mean to go off on so much praise with you, Zach, but like I, it is deserved, right? Some of what you’re doing is easy, but it just, there’s so many people who won’t even put that base thought into it or don’t have the base knowledge of the breadth of, to figure out that easy solution, right?

Zach Stoltenburg: We always like to see our clients successful and, we serve a very small piece in it. We’re happy to do what we do. If our clients are successful with their projects, that’s a reflection on us. And I’ll gladly take that, that praise any day. 

Brian Searl: For sure.

Yep. That’s why I get up in the morning every day. Other than I’m a geek and like technology too, but that’s all other thing. But super excited. Yeah. I think we had a great show. We’re running a couple minutes late here, so we’ll wrap up. Does anybody have any final [00:56:00] thoughts here?

Ansh Singh: No. The glamping show was phenomenal. I, this time, one, one thing that I did different was I didn’t attend a lot of talks. I rather went out and grabbed people and just talk to them instead. And I see wherever I saw they’re heard. I just went inside and see what’s going on, who’s talking what, who’s saying what.

And. I think that was far more beneficial than the last time when I was like, Oh my God, somebody’s saying something. Let me report it. So this was a very different experience this time. And there were a lot of vendors out there. Very good. 

Chris Jeub: I could say I don’t drink beer at noon.

This is actually kombucha in beer bottles. So homemade kombucha. Just, I wanted to get that because it’s very good at noon, but not beer. Although, I do make a homemade beer, Brian. 

Brian Searl: This is the final thought that you want to wrap up the whole good conversation with? Is you don’t drink beer? That was your one takeaway?

Chris Jeub: At noon, I said. At noon. 

Brian Searl: Oh, at noon. Okay. Alright. I thought you said it all. Okay. Zach, [00:57:00] any final thoughts? 

Zach Stoltenburg: I think, my, my biggest reflection of the last week is I’m just incredibly thankful. We launched the Outdoor Hospitality Studio in 2020. Coming out of COVID I left the previous firm that I was at in October, 2019.

And there was a lot of questioning, about timing and why is this happening? And I really struggled. I was like, I feel like there’s so many good things that could be right on the cusp of happening. And I just, I was really frustrated and the opportunities that, that I’ve personally been given since then and, just the clients that we’ve been privileged to work with, all the incredible partners that do all the things that we don’t do.

I feel just really thankful for where we’re at today. As busy as we are and the continued opportunities that we keep, getting. And I feel like this last week was just really a stark realization for me in that, that we’re starting to see [00:58:00] some of the payoff on the investments that we’ve been making over the last couple of years.

But I just feel really thankful and really humbled to be where we’re at in the industry. 

Brian Searl: And I think you, you don’t need me to tell you this, right? And this applies to many different people, but the whole thing is a circle, right? And sometimes that circle is harder to climb up one side before you get down to the other and it goes faster, but that work that you put in, the willingness to make those connections, to send people, to different, to be a connector, to be an advisor, to be a and I’ve heard those words come out of your mouth too but I’ve been doing it for 15 years too just that ability to facilitate, to do, to go the extra mile or go the extra inch in some cases, It all is a circle.

This whole industry is connected. Reuben is connected to David Kors, is connected to Clockwork, is connected to Monument Glamping, is connected to Quaint Glamping, is connected, right? And everybody has an opportunity to help each other in a different way. And the more that we work together, the more we can help each other succeed.

And that’s really what the whole thing is about. If [00:59:00] you do good things will come back to you. This is what I believe anyway, so it’s never failed me yet. Alright guys, thank you. We’re over a little bit, so I appreciate you guys joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Focused on glamping.

Next week is another episode focused on campground ownership. We’ve got a couple new guests joining us for that show as well. So super excited to see you all and we hope you have a great day and a great week. Take care, guys. You too. 

Zach Stoltenburg: Thanks, everybody. 

Ansh Singh: Take care. 

Chris Jeub: Bye. 

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