MC Fireside Chats – June 11th, 2025

Brian Searl: Welcome to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground. Super excited to have you here for another show full of amazing, wonderful people. We have a couple of our recurring guests who are joining us, as always, Scott Foos from Horizon Outdoor Hospitality. I’ll have you guys introduce yourselves in a second ’cause you’ll do a much better job than just me pronouncing your company.

Zachary Stoltenberg, whose company I still am not, it’s not in the hang of me yet, Zach. Like it’s gonna take me a couple weeks. Okay. Just please don’t change for another couple years. Is that fair? I’m old and I’m fragile. So Joe, and you could put your company name and help me out right by your name.

Some advertising there. That’s the only reason I know where Scott and Joe is from. Joe Duemig from App My Community, welcome back sir. I’d love to talk about Australia and some of your stuff and experiences over there in a few. And then two special guests we have here. We have Elizabeth McIntosh, who’s the co-founder of Back Forty Glamping.

You gonna talk to us a little bit about her property and things she has going on, and then we have Sarah Cruse, the General Manager of, I’m gonna butcher this, Clayoquot. Is that right? 

Sarah Cruse: Clayoquot. 

Brian Searl: Alright. Clayoquot. Okay. I should know that. I’m in Calgary, like I was just in Vancouver Island, we were talking about before the show, but I wasn’t in Clayoquot maybe I get forgiveness for that.

But let’s go around the room and introduce ourselves. Do you wanna start with our recruiting guests? Scott, you wanna go first? 

Scott Foos: Yeah, sure. Thanks Brian. Hey everybody. I’m Scott Foos with Horizon Outdoor Hospitality. We’re a third party management and consulting firm, exclusively serving the outdoor hospitality space.

Really excited to, to be a part of the recurring panel and to be on the show, again. I missed last month. I think so thanks Brian for graciously allowing me to return again. 

Brian Searl: Joe’s really in charge, but thank you. I’ll take the credit. Zach, go ahead. 

Zach Stoltenberg: Zach Stoltenberg with LJA we’re multidisciplinary design firms specializing in design of outdoor resorts and hospitality spaces. So we do glamping camping, luxury RV parks, boutique hotels, any kind of experiential stays. We help people design plan, permit and title incredible places all around the world. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Zach. Hello Joe. 

Joe Duemig: I’m Joe Duemig. I am the owner of App My Community. We make guest engagement mobile apps for your guests at your campgrounds and resorts to get communication out to them and communication from them. 

Brian Searl: Now Joe, you’re back in Missouri, right? ’cause you’re lagging Little bit. Yeah. You look like a CNN reporter who’s live during a hurricane or something.

Joe Duemig: Let me see, I think I’m this blurred background thing. Lemme turn that off and I’ll see if it works. Alright, 

Brian Searl: I’m just making sure. Okay. And then we have two special guests. Sarah, do you wanna introduce yourself first? 

Sarah Cruse: Absolutely. My name is Sarah Cruse. I have the privilege of being the General Manager of Clayoquot Wilderness Lodge located off shore about 45 minutes from Totino, Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada.

Only access is through Float plain and or boat. So it truly is one of these spectacular locations where we are disconnected with our very own self-contained village that we have here. There’s the glamping resort, all inclusive. So we have, just these gorgeous it’s a luxury outpost is what we have here.

It’s just a 25 tents and a small little outpost where we service all of our food and beverage. And then we have our guides that really are the transformational factor of providing experience of everything from sea to sky, including an onsite helicopter for some incredible trips up in the mountains or out in the oceans with our boats for fishing or wildlife viewing.

Beautiful herd of horses as well as, cannot say enough about the hiking. So it’s one of those incredible special and I can’t emphasize enough special resorts that we feel we’re the stewards of the land here to look after this while we entertain our guests in the house of Mother Nature.

Brian Searl: Awesome. I can’t wait to learn more about your glamping resort. I know we were talking before the show. Zach’s been there Vancouver Island for his honeymoon. Scott said he’s been there. I’ve been there. Elizabeth, have you been to Vancouver Island? I don’t wanna leave you out. Are you the only one or has it been Vancouver?

Elizabeth McIntosh: I haven’t been to the resort, but I’ve been to Vancouver Island. 

Brian Searl: Okay. That counts. That’s all. Yeah, that’s good enough. Yeah, excited to hear a little bit more about you, like you have Oh, Joe, have you?

Joe Duemig: No, I have not.

Brian Searl: You’ve been to Australia. That’s two points better than we have in Vancouver Island.

Joe Duemig: No further. 

Brian Searl: But yeah, super excited to hear about your resort. I was just exploring there a couple weeks ago, I think I was telling you, and we learned, like we went back and looked at all the old mining logging towns and how they used to have schools back there for all the workers and they got abandoned and.

So it’s just really interesting history to see everything that’s come and gone on such a you look at it as not special when you’ve never been there and outside of it. And then you get there and you realize it has all this rich history. It’s pretty cool. So thanks for being, I appreciate. So, Elizabeth.

Sarah Cruse: Thank you. 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, thanks for having me. My name’s Elizabeth McIntosh and I am one of the owners of Back Forty Glamping. We are located in Ontario, Canada. And we’ve just been open a couple years. We’re definitely more a micro site. We have six domes building our seventh this summer. And we are open all four seasons, so even in the big heavy snow.

Brian Searl: Nice. Welcome. Excited to learn more about, it’s back forty glamping, right? 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah. Correct. 

Brian Searl: I have bad eyes, so I’m just trying to I’m getting older by the day, apparently, or maybe by minute. All thank you. Thanks for all for being here. I think as we normally start these shows to our recurring guests, Joe, Scott, Zach, is there anything that’s come across. Your desk in the last time, since we’ve all been together, that you feel is important that we should bring up and discuss?

Don’t wanna talk at once.

Zach Stoltenberg: I can start. I would say we’re seeing a big push, a big trend with a lot of recent clients that we’ve spoken with about doing off-grid sites or more things are more remote. Some of it is economically driven, not wanting to sink 15 to $20,000 into a site for a basic septic system for a couple of units.

Some of it is more driven by restrictions on the property or the location where it’s at. And so I’ve been researching, doing a lot of, digging into some of the options that are out there for being. Off grid other alternatives to septic power, all of that. So I’d love to hear from Sarah what their approach is on that. ‘Cause it’s a hot trend for me right now. Something that I keep getting calls about. 

Sarah Cruse: Totally. I think the beauty of Clayoquot, it was built 25 years ago, so imagine if you will, 25 years ago it was fairly easy, in this part of the world to be able to purchase the land and then just start building upon it.

We’ve since had a change of ownership in 2016, moving onwards sorry, in 20 19, 2020. And the biggest thing truly is what you’re sustaining is the permits, right? Being able to make sure that we have everything in order with our government. And there is no ability to expand. So we have the right footprint.

It was done 25 years ago , and we’ve secured this land in this location. I think the addition of what, and we kept it simple. I think the idea behind this is really spend the money on the water system, on the sewage system, on the power grid. And two years ago, last winter, two winters ago, the company invested and we’ve now got British Columbia’s largest solar plant panel.

So we have now and here in the rainforest, that’s the miracle. We are now actually harnessed by the power of mother nature to provide our energy. So being able to turn off the generators, they’re there for backup. But today, Zach, I’m not sure if this property would be able to do what we’re actually doing today.

I take my hat off to the original owner and that crew, that grits and guts. It was the wild west to be able to produce this piece of paradise. And today it’s a very refined, gorgeous luxury glamping, but everybody’s looking for this. You’re not wrong. That’s the most popular trend and we can see it obviously in our occupancy, in our clients.

But yeah, we probably did it completely under the radar and got it all done. And then property sold and new ownership, incredible working with all of our permits and everything’s now tickety boo. We’ve got everything absolutely approved on government level, but there will be no room for expansion.

Brian Searl: You got it done through hard work and all the things you’re talking about, right? But also because it was 25 years ago and they didn’t, were paying attention to as many permits.

Sarah Cruse: Nobody

Brian Searl: I think it’s interesting there has to be a balance there. And depending on which side of the fence you’re on, you may lean closer to one way with more permitting.

Or if you’re protecting, you want heavy on the wildlife. Like I know that area, that whole left side of Vancouver Island, aren’t they restoring that for the bears and stuff like that, or something like that?

Sarah Cruse: They’re trying very hard, obviously. Wildlife protection is one of our biggest things for the oceans and for the wildlife.

And that’s monitored very closely to make sure that the protection of our wildlife comes. I’m in a location where we’re the only, our footprint is minimal. It’s so tiny . so we don’t cross any of those barricades. Like we’re very blessed up again, because of my location.

A lot of the other operators, absolutely. Wildlife protection, ocean protection comes first. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Sarah Cruse: Which affects small business businesses. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. I can’t remember where we were. We saw. I’m gonna pop in and back out again. I don’t know why like my computer does this only during the show.

It’ll disappear at least two more times and I’ll come right back. But anyway, I think we were learning about the whole west side of that. There’s a, like the rainforest over there and how they’ve been slowly restoring it and we saw like a map of how, like it was a map of dark green areas, like green areas, whatever else, but how it had changed so much over the last 20, 30 years as they’d worked to restore different pieces and parts of it.

Sarah Cruse: Yeah. ’cause they’re protecting the land. And there are restoration companies we work with Red Fish is our partner in being able to restore and it’s gonna be years and years. But the fact of the matter is there’s a movement to make sure that we protect these woods, these trees, these rainforests. So I feel so positive for the future. 

Brian Searl: So what have you learned in some of your research, Zach? ’cause I think this is important too. Like I think there’s gonna be more people, to your point, seeking this stuff in the future. Like crazy. Like weeks ago, we talked about flying cars. And this is still like 5, 10, 15 years away before it gets to scale.

But they’re gonna be FAA approved as early as this year, and that opens up a whole new world of travel to remote places to go glamping. So what have you learned in your research? 

Zach Stoltenberg: There’s some really cool new like startup companies things that products either a product or a system that is doing some really cool stuff.

One to keep on your radar. It’s new. They just launched. It’s still in startup mode. It’s called Electric Outdoors. They produce a complete self-contained turnkey unit. I will say it, it is not a high design, it’s not a , beautiful guest experience and it’s not meant to be.

But this unit, it’s like an eight foot by 20 foot self-contained piece. It produces all of its own power via solar. It has a water collection with an internal unit that pulls like moisture, humidity out of the air. And it can do up to, I think it’s 15 or 20 gallons a day. Depending on the weather, obviously it is gotta have moisture to pull it out.

It’s got a toilet, it’s got a sink shower, some bunk bed units. It ships collapsed and then it, it deploys so the solar panels open up, decks fold down and really competitive price point. And some of those things, some of those are maybe great for a site to just drop a unit and you don’t have to worry about anything.

Maybe great for a property that you don’t own. I’m looking at them as a potential option for some National Park service stuff where, you know the operator that’s there, they don’t have a 25, 30 year lease, they don’t have enough time to recoup the investment that would come from more substantial systems.

So something like this, turnkey unit lower price, to payback. And if need be, could be pulled off of that property and deployed onto another site or even a seasonal option, for some of these campgrounds that they’re really only full five, six months out of the year.

The sum cost of building a stick-built structure or a modular unit and all these systems in place. Sometimes the juicing worth the squeeze. We can’t get it to pencil out, but some of these modular units, could be brought into that site for five or six months out of the year and then picked up and moved to a different site, during the off season.

And I think their main goal really is for this to be supplemental to a class C, Van Life unit or towable RV. Again, they’re not trying to do everything, but really interesting company, cool stuff that they’re doing, and definitely somebody to watch and see what happens with them.

I’d seen the Rivian in the picture there too. I think there’s some sort of collaboration with Rivian. And so we’ll wait. We’ll see what happens. 

Brian Searl: I don’t know what that squeak was. Hopefully it wasn’t from my end. It didn’t sound like it. But so yeah, like the future of this stuff fascinates me how the industry continues to evolve, not just from a glamping perspective, but all these new companies that are coming in and innovating and doing things that we’ve never seen before.

I don’t know, like maybe Scott, you have an idea of this, like Zach was talking about picking it up and moving it every six months. Let’s say you take it from Vancouver Island to California or something. What would make that cost effective for an operator to do?

Let’s say you own two properties, one in each place. 

Scott Foos: Yeah I think a big piece of that comes down to obviously to the cost of the unit and how they’re transported and all of those things. But being able to, if you are an owner and you have a couple of different locations, being able to transport units from, again, depending on all of the different variables that can add up pretty quickly.

But something that’s very contained like that makes it so much easier in theory to be able to do. And the return on that investment into that unit is exponentially greater when you essentially have, potentially a year round use with limited downtime for transportation. So that’s a pretty cool model and we also see a lot of properties that have these really beautiful, they’re established, even if they’re, RV resorts or glamping properties that have the part of their property that’s much easier to develop. That’s closer into the, maybe the on grid infrastructure.

But then there’s the areas that are harder to get into, but are some of the best spots to get into. And we’ve seen at some of our properties and others that we’ve seen, you’ve seen like hike in Camping options which is, a primitive way of being able to utilize those spaces. But if there was a way to essentially drop in a structure like this into those areas or, other other kind of all-inclusive infrastructure options for off-grid, I think that’s amazing ways to unlock value elsewhere in your property.

And it’s not just unlocking the value from that land that it’s going on, that’s not really being used but, it’s increasing the value proposition for your property overall because now you’re tapping into something that’s much more experiential. Even beyond just what you’re, potentially offering in your developed part of the property.

Brian Searl: But that part is big tapping into the unused land, right? Yeah. Like we’ve talked about that from an experiential just amenity standpoint, finding activities to do in the field putting up extra 10 sites or whatever. So there’s definitely a lot of value in doing something like that. Is there any sense, and maybe you know the answer to this Zach, like if I had an established RV Park or Campground and I wanted to use something that didn’t require sewer or didn’t require hookups or trenching or burying cables, or all the things that you typically have to go through extra hassle for. Is there a sense of how much, I dunno, let’s say paperwork would be involved in putting something like that up?

Zach Stoltenberg: So as far as I know, these units are, it’s completely, modular. So they don’t need to connect to a grid. It’s not a permanent structure, so there really is no permitting piece because you’re not building anything. They are, I think eight foot by 20 foot. So they’re able to be transported with a regular truck and trailer or a tilt back tow truck or something like that.

It’s fairly easy to transport. But I think they’re hitting kind of a gray area, right? Because it’s not it is not technically something that would have to be permitted or built. It’s not technically an RV. It is not on wheels. So it is probably, striking that middle ground which maybe isn’t an advantage at this point in a launch that they’re not really falling under any particular regulation because it isn’t really classified as any one of those things. 

Brian Searl: Wonder how long it’ll take ’em to catch up. 

Joe Duemig: One of the things that Scott spoke to there was the the ability to use ’em in two different places. I’ve seen a lot of parks that will rent a travel trailer or a fifth wheel that they have on property.

I don’t know that there’s too many, that when they do have them, they would move them to another facility. And so I would think that would end up being much more cost effective than moving these around. And so if people aren’t doing that now, maybe that’s something they should be doing for people that own multiple parts that have travel trailers that they rent out or otherwise maybe there is a cost issue there.

Brian Searl: Yeah. I think that’s the key. I was gonna ask Scott that follow up question too. If, assuming like it’s easy in the summer, you move it north, right? But when the when you’re moving it south in the winter, like that’s still warm all year round, in theory, unless you go too far south.

So then how do you decide to take it away from that park and move it north? And then where do you put it when it comes back down and what do you fill the empty site with? I think that’s the kind of dancing line, right? Like I’ve speculated in the future, I can’t wait till we have 3D printing and we can recycle stuff like NASA does and build like helmets to stay in outside football games and just recycle ’em, tear ’em down and go to the basketball game and build a basketball to stay in.

We’re not there yet, obviously, but there’s gotta be an economic model to it and I don’t know if I see it clearly yet, but 

Scott Foos: Yeah, same. And I think that the sub, like the subset of properties that would actually do this is probably fairly limited at this point, but I think it’s something that could become the whole, it could potentially become another offshoot in business model.

The only other thing I was gonna add too, to those units and Zach you mentioned, this is a gray area and it seems like it’s a huge need. But I go back to the glamping show and you see some of those new units come out and they’re really cool and, my operational mind is like, how are these gonna hold up in a commercial setting?

How easy are these going to be to clean? How easy these gonna be able to be maintained? And that’s another element with some of these new things. But not to be a Debbie Downer, but it seems like we’re on the right path and it’s really great to see these innovations.

But then at what point we get them at scale and commercial scale will be maybe a different story. But I’d be curious, with Sarah and Elizabeth, it’s, you guys have, at least Sarah, you do, Elizabeth, do you have any sort of off grid units at your property? 

Elizabeth McIntosh: No, so we did the full nine miles, like we have a massive septic bed and we put in all the utilities. We have like private hot tubs at every dome. So we definitely went the higher end in terms of servicing, which is necessary in order to be four seasons. In a sense like in Ontario we get winters that are like negative 30 and negative 20 and all that. So I feel like our model has never been the off grid Camping experience.

We’re definitely lean more into the luxuries of being a hotel in the forest that has all of your comforts of home. So it’s not quite something that I can speak to. 

Brian Searl: Speak to back forty then. Let’s talk about you for a second. So how did you end up, let’s look, let’s go all the way back, right?

How do we end up with back forty glamping and how it looks and how you ended up targeting the luxury market and all the things. Where’d you start? 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, so I feel like our talking about permits and stuff, I feel like that’s where everyone’s story starts, where you have this vision and then it gets totally changed.

Just because of what you’re allowed and not allowed to do. And I feel like glamping and out of the box experiential stays is something that is still new to Ontario. Canada specifically, like I find most stuff is in the states. So there isn’t really many models that we could point to in our own province to say look, they did it, what were their permits?

And we always say that with our municipality, it was like trying to put a circle in a square. And we are not in the rule book in terms of like our structures, our temporary structures, but they have permanent plumbing and electrical, so they are real. They count, they need permits, but it’s like, how do you permit a dome?

And all of those things and putting in a septic, they counted like our eight units as eight houses, but obviously they’re not eight houses, they’re eight small things. So our septic bed is four times larger than we ever anticipated that it needed to be. So I found as we went through the permit process, our vision kind of got pinpointed for us, which ended up being like a good thing.

Like we had never anticipated in making them as high end as we did. But it really made us find our niche market, which has really benefited us being able to be a year-round market. And to be able to specialize and curate our guests who come from the GTA, like the Greater Toronto Area who aren’t necessarily looking for a rugged.

Expansive experience, but more one or two nights away to say you did it and then you go back to the city. So we are only two hours from Toronto, so not super remote at all. And I find being pinpointed into what our brand had to be was actually a huge benefit. And that’s how it became more higher end, more luxuries, just as the rules just kept getting more wild and wild.

Brian Searl: I think, like we’ve talked about permitting so much in the show, Scott and Zach and Joe for, everybody who’s been here on multiple shows too. Like I think we just need to start our own political party, get elected governor in different states to just change all the rules for glamping.

Zach, do you wanna run? You have a good personality. 

Zach Stoltenberg: The outdoor party. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, the outdoor party. I like it. 

But so Elizabeth, so how did you then end up, like you’re outside Toronto, you have a good location? I haven’t explored a lot around that area, but I’ve been to Hamilton and, which is not two hours north. I know. And then Barry, we were up there for a conference on a year, I think. Joe, you were at that conference Camping in Ontario.

Joe Duemig: That was almost two hours north. It was in Muskoka. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. Yeah. Muskoka. But so you’re in that area. Obviously you can attract people from Toronto and the big suburbs that, expands quite a bit around Toronto.

How do you decide the luxury? ’cause there’s lots of people who live in Toronto and not everybody’s luxury. 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Like how did we decide to do more higher end stuff? 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Elizabeth McIntosh: I think just seeing that people are willing to pay, like we charge about $500 a night. I know that’s Canadian. And just seeing in our business model that people are wanting. And also in that feedback. I know like comfort was important to us, like cooling and heating obviously is always a headache, in terms of temporary structures and knowing that we did wanna have a winter market caused us to have to really be particular about our cooling and heating to make sure that it was a very comfortable stay even in the winter.

And then we just always knew hot tubs as big as a headache, they are is a huge.

Brian Searl: Totally worth.

Elizabeth McIntosh: It selling feature.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Elizabeth McIntosh: Especially when we knew we were going to target couples. And that is what our feedback says. I know the idea of having a more natural eco setting in terms of a wood fire hot tub and it’s all aesthetic and all, but I don’t know if it’s just because of the people we attract, but I think everyone really appreciates, it’s hot. A lot of people ask will it be hot when we get there? I’m like, it’s electronic.

Brian Searl: Do I have to put the wood in and do any work at all, or, yeah. 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah. I find our clientele doesn’t wanna do any work, so the idea, and a lot of people are barbecuing for the first time. A lot of people are making a campfire for the first time. So we definitely are not really 

Brian Searl: Oh, we lost her. Okay. We’ll get her back in a second. And she can finish her story. While we do, I want to get to make sure we devote time to Sarah’s story. So I don’t want to start your story and then have it cut off when Elizabeth comes in. But Scott, do you wanna tell us a little bit about your travels around the country recently? 

Scott Foos: Yeah, sure. Yeah. And I’d love to ask your these Canadians what their occupancy trends are like so far this year and how those things have shifted. But she’s back should we jump over?

Brian Searl: Yeah, we’ll jump back over to Elizabeth. Yeah, sorry continue Elizabeth, we just lost you for a sec. 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, sorry. No I had finished my thought just saying that our clientele is definitely more not looking to put the effort in of an off grid experience. 

Brian Searl: So where do you see back forty glamping going from here? Like you, you mentioned a little bit of your vision had changed because of the permitting and things like that. Obviously that’s probably not gonna change in the foreseeable future, but if you had everything go right for you, let’s say next five, 10 years, where does back forty glamping go? 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, so because of our difficulty permitting and we had a lot of neighbor pushback, we have a very specific site plan that isn’t allowing expansion in a sense. We have 25 acres, but we’re approved for eight units. So I feel like in terms of expansion, it’s gonna be like another site. But yeah, I feel like people appreciate, I don’t know if we would do domes again just because they do come with their own finicky things and headaches. 

Brian Searl: And now you know, you can just drop in Zach’s little electric outdoors thing and you don’t feel it work.

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah. But I do think Instagram and people are seeking a unique structure for sure. So something along those lines of landscape hotel or I find just like our niche is couples romantic getaways and doing something experiential together that’s different. So I think we would continue on that stream.

Brian Searl: Oh, there we go. We got you back. You didn’t actually leave this time. 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Sorry. 

Brian Searl: That’s okay. You’re still here. We can hear you. 

Zach Stoltenberg: Elizabeth, have you ever heard of a zome? 

Elizabeth McIntosh: No. 

Zach Stoltenberg: ZOME? 

Elizabeth McIntosh: What’s it look like? 

Zach Stoltenberg: It’s similar to a dome. But it’s, they’re usually timber built structures. Some no exterior, vinyl. They come to a point on the top, on the roof.

But if you’re looking for an alternative to the traditional domes that’s, it’s still a very unique, guest experience. It’s something that’s very different. And definitely something that we’re I started following a couple of builders on YouTube that were building zomes. Now we’ve got companies that are specializing in kit versions of these.

Brian Searl: I want to, we’re looking at right now, I wanna zome now.

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah. Yeah, so the, these guys offer a kit. Still pretty cost effective, but again, for a climate like Canada where you want a year round unit, these can be fully insulated fully, wired, plumbing, electric, all of that stuff. And they can actually meet full building code.

Elizabeth McIntosh: Oh, nice. Yeah, they’re cute. They’re like little teardrops.

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah.

Brian Searl: This is interesting.

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, and there’s all different kinds of designs, different sizes. I’ve seen some really cool ones where they take this same structure, but they turn it sideways.

Brian Searl: Interesting.

Zach Stoltenberg: And you actually enter through the pointy part. So yeah, just a new cool structure. We’re doing a few of those on a project that we’re working on right now. 

Brian Searl: I have it on my notes I wanna, I want to go to AI when we get off the show, and I’m fascinated to just understand if Instagram and social media didn’t exist, would people care as much about the beauty of the exterior of their cabin?

What do you guys think? Like obviously the interior amenities are very important, right? But would they care as much about the photograph ability of their accommodation if they weren’t sharing it on social media? 

Elizabeth McIntosh: I think it’s also the experience of staying at something so pleasantly aesthetic, like what you feel when you approach it and when you’re lounging outside of it. Like it does add to the whole experience versus.

Brian Searl: Agreed.

Elizabeth McIntosh: Being in a hotel room. That’s how I feel when I go to a nice hotel. Like I’m just in a nice hotel room. It’s not like my own private unit, that has like an outdoor and indoor experience. Yeah. So I feel like there still benefit.

Joe Duemig: Also, without social media, you have your website, right? And so for those of us that aren’t using Instagram to pick a place and we go to the website if it looks all, I’m not taking tours of every cabin, but if I see pictures and everything looks shoddy, that’s probably not the place I’m 

Brian Searl: Oh, for sure. I’m just playing devil’s advocate, right? Obviously the outside still matters to people. I just mean from a perspective of how much does it matter when you’re just looking at it on photos and videos and Instagram to research it? And how much does it matter if you’re trying to like, go stay someplace you can share with your friends. Elizabeth was saying, like just to say, I did it right and go back to Toronto.

But it really don’t need to answer the question. There’s not really a good one, but I was just thinking about it a lot. 

Zach Stoltenberg: I would say, I think, again, just an opinion, but I think the way something looks on the outside right now, in our current market, that the way a unit looks is what’s going to help people decide if they’re gonna come or not. The way that it feels when they step into it for the first time is gonna decide if they come back. 

Brian Searl: Okay. 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, I agree with that. ’cause I feel like that is what has led to a lot of our success, is just what it looks like and it catches people’s eye because it’s different. And then that causes them to go to our website, which then causes them to come.

Brian Searl: All right. Sarah, Clayoquot. Tell us what you have going on up there. We heard a little bit about it in your intro, but. 

Sarah Cruse: Oh my goodness. I call this my heart property. I think, when I first discovered Clayoquot, I left traditional hospitality, very similar to what Elizabeth is doing. Building your domes out and having that attraction being unique and different. It just opens up a whole line of clientele, but also just incredible experiences all the way around, I think. And for me it was just a leap. I call it going wild. When I decided to jump into the woods, I have not looked back.

I said, this is the future of hospitality. I started the wild side in about 2016 and I’ve been studying it ever since. ’cause it’s fascinating how we live here off grid, four months of operation and how we handle onboard our guests into this experience and then have them leaving a transformational state.

I meet and greet all of our guests and I think the most incredible thing for me that I found my first years when they were leaving on the dock. First of all, instantaneous huts. It’s just a matter of that’s what happens here. All barricades are down and just naturally kind humanity comes out.

Tears, and I know why they’re crying. Tears of joy, tears of happiness, tears of, they’re just something inside of them has been so restored. And it’s because of this vitamin G, green, whatever you wanna call it. I call it the House of Mother Nature. It’s raw energy. And I see them fill up as they spend time here on the property.

The surprise and delight is our food and being able to service them. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. But then going off into the woods. So our experiences are sea to sky, so able to go out on the ocean for wildlife, viewing of bears and whales and otters and sea lion and sea otters, seals, and eagles is just, for a lot of people, this is a big deal all over the world.

They’re coming to see one of our black bears, fishing to cash and cook. And enjoy that we’re not fishing hotch. We do cash and release, and if we’re going to, then we’re going to make sure that we honor that fish and enjoy that fish as part of our meal program. Onto the canyon being able to swim in these cold, cool Canadian rivers. It’s just my joy having them just jump in and see. You could drink the water here. Being able to see the salmon in the, in September is unbelievable. We have a fleet of e-bikes now, so we’re able to go up all the old logging trails and then our hikes. We have old growth. And I think that’s what distinguishes this property is having that small grouping of the old growth trees at the end of the trail and having that moment where you can feel these are living beings, they’re alive and their energies unbelievable.

As you look at these trees and go, oh my God, this used to be the world. And then in that moment, the worrying of a helicopter dropping down and digging to the top of the mountain. When you’re on top of those mountains, you’re looking and overseeing this beautiful Clayoquot sound, bedwell sound that we have here this area, all of our mountains untouched.

And you have that sense of just, being at one and moment of solitude. A moment of really realizing how tiny you are. And the Glacier Lakes cold water. I’m a huge fan. Anytime possible, jump in, let’s go. ’cause it just combine, brings you back to life. All of these are natural elements here in the woods.

Having the herd of horses, equine therapy, just having a moment with that. Tho those animals in itself, going through a rainforest on the back of a horse are going through a river. And being able to see the trees in the woods at a different level. Again, restoring, everything we do here is restorative.

We’re not a wellness retreat. We’re not a wellness resort. I often say we weave wellness through everything we do. Because you’re disconnecting, you’re putting your devices down. I was brought up old school. It was all about, cottage in Muskoka. That’s a privilege, but having those moments and here having a chance to reconnect to your wild hood, whether you’re by yourself or you with your family.

We’ve got all ages. I’ve got two 80 year olds right now celebrating their 80th together from Ontario. Having the time of their life, no problem. I’ve had up to 94 years old, I’ve had as little 60 years old raging the canyon and saying, this is the best thing that ever happened to them. And seeing the parents on being able to have all sorts of multi-gen families here experiencing what we do.

It’s not a bespoke kids camp. The families go out and we do it all together because it’s about spending time together with Mother Nature and having that restorative energy reinstated with the union. All I can hope is that, as they leave, they keep that in their hearts and understand and how we should be behaving when we go back into that crazy world and finding those moments of when they can just enjoy Mother Nature at its best wherever they are in the world.

So Clayoquot is just a spectacular story of a vision of a fellow from Toronto that saw an opportunity to put some tents. And the tents are very simple. They’re either on the side of water, the estuary of the ocean or in the woods. The rainforest tents. In the bathrooms. It’s all about the bathrooms.

Either you have a beautiful bathroom attached to your tent with an outdoor shower, or you just have a little deluxe that you step 10 steps out private to your tent. Those talking about luxury, Elizabeth, that’s what they’re looking for, right? They wanna think that they’re roughing it, they’re having this moment in the woods, but all the details are looked after for them so that they have the best sleep that they’ve ever had because it’s so quiet.

And I think all those elements change them, fill them back up, and send them back out into the world so that they can just get after it. But maybe in a kinder way, in a happier way, because they’ve had a chance to be able to rest, breathe. And revitalize here in the woods. So a little bit of everything is what we do.

See the sky, is how I call us. And I think at the end of the day we have some fun things, rock climbing and archery for the kids as well. And sometimes it’s just the art of doing nothing. Let’s go sit on one of those Muskoka chairs and stare at the estuary. ’cause it’s like a David Attenberg video because the water’s flowing, the ducks, the salmon, the bear.

It was all happening, but you have to just sit down and watch to see it all and evolve around you. My love is being able to host this property with all of our guests and then behind the scenes. My nickname’s camp mom, so I’ve got 90 kids here and my kids, the staff that come to do this are one of a kind in the world. And so I have another little village here, and that’s with all the employees to make sure that we can bring this to light, light and life for our guests. But at the same time, watching these kids work at their highest possible level.

’cause they want to be their best every day, and the guests feel that. So it’s really quite a dance, a beautiful dance in the woods. I could go on forever, you guys.

Brian Searl: No, I know, what you’re talking about is life changing, right? And there are people like I know, and everybody probably on this podcast knows there are people who say I’m an outdoor person, or I’m not an outdoor person.

Everybody’s an outdoor person. When you’re standing on top of a mountain. You get maybe you don’t want to get up there, you don’t wanna do the walk or the hike or the whatever to write. But when you’re standing on top of the mountain, if you can stop and appreciate and not look at your phone and do whatever, right?

And that’s the ocean that’s out seeing a whale that’s I took the Inlet tours and went up to see the grizzly bears when I was up in Port Hardy. It’s just a whole different experience. And we were, like, Scott Bahr and I were talking about this and Greg Emmert too on a, like a clickup channel we have for the show for Outwired later.

And we were talking about how, like the difference between types of vacations that you take, sometimes, right? And I’m used to, and Scott, you know this from building your company and Joe, you know this from building your company, Zach from the hustle, right? I mean I spent 15 years building my company and yes, I took vacations, but I didn’t take those kind of vacations.

And so I went on vacation and I like, I saw new things and I went to museums and went out to eat and went to bar, but I wasn’t truly disconnected. And I’m not saying everybody suffers from that, like I think it’s way more relaxed up here in Canada than it is in the United States. That’s my own stereotypical opinion.

But until I came up here and went to like my girlfriend’s parents have a cabin on Lake Shuswap, that’s the first time that I remember actually truly, I don’t have to do anything today. Like thinking that.

Sarah Cruse: Exactly.

Brian Searl: And it is life changing. 

Sarah Cruse: That’s the key. Majority of our guests are from the States. And I lived in the States for 15 years, so it’s having my brothers and sisters back and I just get so excited. Particularly when I see New York step off the planes and I’m just like, oh, New York, come to mama. Because I just know how wound up and I’m watching to see who is struggling with device being disconnected, the WiFi’s not available only in your tent. So there’s no wifi in the cookhouse, in the restaurant or around camp. And it’s just gorgeous to watch people go through the different levels of disconnect of from rage to anger, to shakes, to trembles, to whispering in my ear, don’t tell my wife, please can I have the code?

And me having so much fun with it saying, is that important? What’s more important? ’cause I think this is more important and that can wait. I’m at the age now where I can be, ’cause I embrace being in my sixties is fantastic because I can actually go up and say, come on, you two, don’t you love each other?

Do you wanna talk about this right now? ’cause I think that you’re, hold, look at me. And they lo when I see people holding their hands, I celebrate. I get so excited. I make a thing about it. Oh my God, you’re holding hands, not holding the device. And because life’s too short, they’re only here for three day or four day packages. Seven days is the luxury. But when I only have them for three days, come on now, you put that thing down and it works. It works. But it’s that exactly that moment when what you said there, which is, oh, I don’t have to do anything today. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Sarah Cruse: It just, that’s the goal. That’s the golden nugget right there.

Brian Searl: Hopefully more people have more of those experiences as they shift to out grid. Go ahead Scott, you were gonna say something? 

Scott Foos: Oh, I’m sorry. Yeah, I was just gonna say, this week’s show is, about guest experience and in hearing Sarah talk and Elizabeth too about how they create experiences for their guests. It just not only is it so important to have really unique accommodations and make sure all the infrastructure’s in place and all the nerdy stuff that we enjoy, but more than anything it’s that emotional intelligence and that emotional connection that you can have with your guests. And to hear Sarah say that she’s observing her guests and like jumping in to assist when she can and how she can to support their stay, and the real reason why they came is just, it’s phenomenal and that’s what makes or breaks it and that’s what supports the rate.

And Sarah, I just, I could listen to you continue. I think we just give up the rest of the show and you keep talking about it, but, really it’s incredible.

Sarah Cruse: I think it’s so important because I think we forget in hospitality. I left traditional hospitality eight years ago.

And so I live COVID out here, so I guess I’m the luckiest girl. Social distancing there. It’s not a bad thing. But, I made a life decision that I think this is the future. And then watching the tired eyes of everybody back in the old world, the staff not engaged. Because the guests could feel it.

That’s what they tell me. We’ve traveled the world and we can see when our staff are just being told what to do and servicing the coordinate. That’s not heart forward hospitality. That’s not how I was trained, brought up in the business. And it’s a hard haul out there these days. To bring that warmth back into where it’s supposed to be and which is what hospitality is all about.

It’s not just a job, it really does come from the emotions. And I think because I studied this, I now live in a monoculture. So I have the ability with 90 people to be able to transform my employees experience because it starts with their experience, transforming that into how they perform for the guest.

Because at the end of the day, if you don’t wanna be here and you don’t like it, hey, get out. Because this is why we’re in this business. And that goes right up to leadership. That’s our job, I think. And buy that because these guests are paying a lot of money. $ 500 bucks a head, Elizabeth, you’re charging some Bitcoin there.

Yeah. So it’s amazing. It’s not just the uniqueness of the location and what we offer. It’s the people around. It’s the hearts.

Scott Foos: That’s right.

Sarah Cruse: The heart.

Brian Searl: Yeah. When we talk about that quite a bit. I know, Scott, you and I have had that conversation before on the show about the team members and the importance of training them and making them care and putting their empathy and passion into the role.

A big piece of that though, that we maybe haven’t touched on is what Sarah is talking about. They have to understand you get out in the middle of Vancouver Island and you go to work in Vancouver Island and Clayoquot Then all of a sudden you have the same appreciation the guest does except you get to wake up to that every day. That changes, I think, how you approach your role versus working. 

Sarah Cruse: Correct. 

Brian Searl: I don’t wanna slight anywhere else. But you understand what I’m saying? It’s different.

Sarah Cruse: Yeah. And I think that’s where I’m totally blessed. And I think so, and I know that, I know I’m in a very privileged position to be able to do that. But as I sent everybody back outta here, into their lives, I was like, take a piece of this with you for your next job. Because it’s hard work. Find staff, train staff, keep staff. I find the hospitality world is suffering right now from a recruitment point of view. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Sarah Cruse: And I just think that we have here what we’re offering, whether it’s camping or glamping or off grid, I think that is where everybody’s going. And all of us are going there for a reason. Is ’cause we’re all looking for the joystick. We’re all looking for that moment of happiness. And we’re finding it more and more in a natural, in a nature based environment where, not everybody’s screaming back at us. I just think it’s those of you that are in the business of building. I wish I was younger. Like I just could do this.

Brian Searl: You are young. Wait until Medicine advances and you live to be 150. We’re gonna have a podcast when you’re 150.

Sarah Cruse: That’s the plan. But anybody starting off I just think it’s fabulous what you’re doing, Elizabeth in Ontario. That’s just so exciting. Everybody’s talking Ontario. They’re looking for that kind of stuff. Because they are looking for that. And those of you that this is your company, oh, you should be beyond busy. I would have to think with what people are looking for. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. We only have a couple.

Sarah Cruse: I’m a little passionate about this.

Brian Searl: That’s fine. That’s what we need more passion, right? Like we need more passion. We only have a couple minutes left. It’s not as much time as I wanted to spend, and I think we’d all like to listen to Sarah’s tale too. But I’d love to hear from Joe briefly about how his trip to Australia was and any things that he uncovered there that he thinks is worth mentioning.

Joe Duemig: Yeah, actually I’m probably even better if Bobby was here. Bobby stayed in, I visited about a hundred different caravan parks while he was down there. Stayed there and in New Zealand.

Brian Searl: That’s a way to get staff bought in. Excited about your product. We’ll send you to New Zealand in Australia.

Joe Duemig: That’s very true. Yeah. Yeah. We decided that about a month after he was in, so it was perfect. Yeah, so we flew in, went to the show. We had two caravan shows next to each other. The Queensland State Show and then the Caravan Industry of Australia National Show. Their show’s about the same size as OHI.

But it is together with the RVIA. Basically, they have one industry that does the caravan as opposed to we have two the RVIA side and the OHI side. Maybe less people that were inclined for our business. One of the things that is pretty noticeable about them, they have a lot of marketing groups, so obviously we have KOA and Jellystone that are franchise or marketing companies, depending on how you’re looking at it.

They have a lot of ’em. If we talk to somebody there at a show, there was multiple parks were represented there. So they have a lot of different groups. Some parks belong to multiple groups. But that’s the way they run things there. There’s a lot of a lot of kind of rebranding with the marketing organizations, but they’re all self-owned and they do not consider them to be franchises. They’re marketing groups.

Brian Searl: Okay, so like Big four Discovery parks. 

Joe Duemig: Yeah. Discovery a little different, but yeah. Goode, Big Four I don’t know how to pronounce it. KUI, KUI Parks. Ingenia. Summer Star. There’s a ton of and then there’s also a lot of these groups that do the same thing, but they do them for state ran parks or public parks.

Gold Coast, holiday parks ,sunshine Coast holiday parks. And so it is a public private partnership. But they do ’em on a smaller scale with groups from a general location. 

Brian Searl: We have some of those in the states. Like I used to work with a guy who owned Lake Isabella KOA, who did that as a vendor for a bunch of state parks and stuff.

Joe Duemig: Yeah. But one of the things is they rebrand them. That’s kinda the weird part.

Brian Searl: Oh, okay.

Joe Duemig: They’re branded in that. So the Sunshine Coast holiday parks, they’re all ran by one group. They’re all branded together. Some kind of come and go from that brand, but that’s, it’s just how it works. It’s definitely a different model than we have here. Pricing. I think their pricing seems to be a decent amount lower than ours. 

Brian Searl: Is that the currency conversion though, or 

Joe Duemig: No. ’cause they’re, their dollar like. 

Brian Searl: Is 60 some cents to the dollar, isn’t it? 

Joe Duemig: Exactly. And so their parks are, their nightly rates are $50, $60 Australia. So we’re talking $30 to $40 US. For nightly stay. Obviously it depends on the park you’re staying at, but notice that they very heavy into water. So like the splash pads and stuff like that. There’s a lot of those, but then probably not as high on the other amenities that a lot of times that we offer, it seems to me.

So yeah, it would be nice to experience more of that myself. We had a lot of children that we had to get back to, otherwise we would’ve stayed there for three weeks instead of Bobby. We are going back to, not going back, we’re going to New Zealand. Those are not the same countries, and don’t let them think that you think that we’re going back.

Brian Searl: Do people think that, sorry. 

Joe Duemig: They think they’re the same countries, but they put ’em like little put together? Yeah. Oh yeah. New Zealand, it’s right there.

Brian Searl: I’ll admit, I thought that the first time, like new, not the same country, but New Zealand was pretty close to Sydney and it’s not at all not even close. Yeah. 

Joe Duemig: So yeah, we’re gonna be going to New Zealand, Rose and I for the show on the end of, or I guess about a month, a little over a month, 40 days from now. And, in that case, we do get to travel around. I don’t think we’re gonna stay at, we might stay at one caravan park but we will actually be doing the experiences you were talking about for couples.

There’s a hot spring that has glamping domes in a little motel. And so we’re actually going to experience that kind of right in the middle of the southern island of New Zealand. So that’ll be, it talks to what we were doing before we finally get a couple’s time without children.

And that’s exactly what we shoot for. Is that differing experience with a hot spring outside that you can go to. And 

Brian Searl: Do you leave the kids with Bobby or. 

Joe Duemig: Yeah. No. We’ll leave them with a college student in instead they’re a 

Brian Searl: That’s a really quick answer. I think Bobby should see that answer, that gut reaction of there’s no way I would leave them with Bobby. That’s what it sounded like. 

Joe Duemig: I’m sure he is. He would be happy to hear I’m not leaving six children with him. 

Brian Searl: Scott, can we spend a couple minutes talking about your trip real quick? Yeah, sure. I know it’s rushed, but like we can, we don’t have to cut off on hard stop. If anybody needs to go, they can.

Zach Stoltenberg: I do have another call I gotta jump to. But Joe, if you make it over there one of our previous guests from a couple months back was Valleyview Glamping out of New Zealand. I remember really incredible stuff. The hosts the people like most outdoor hospitality, the people are what make it.

And they were just wonderful, charming people. So that would definitely, if you’re looking for a little side trip or a little place checkout Valley View

Joe Duemig: I’ll see.

Zach Stoltenberg: I have to jump guys.

Joe Duemig: Where I’m at, so, thanks.

Brian Searl: Before you leave Zach, tell me where they can find out more about your company.

Zach Stoltenberg: Sure. So I’m with LJA like I said we’re predominantly a civil engineering firm. You can email me. My email is zstoltenberg, just like my last name, @lja.com. I’m on LinkedIn. I’m on Facebook or you can give me a call my cell number’s on, plenty of stuff out there. But yeah, we’d love to talk to anybody who’s looking to plan a new resort or acquiring an existing one that they wanna reposition or rehab. Taken on a couple of those new projects lately. So yeah we love working with people that love the outdoors. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks Zach. I appreciate you. Scott. Do you have a couple extra minutes? Do you wanna talk about it or do you, you run outta time.

Scott Foos: Yeah, no, I do.

Brian Searl: Yeah, so like you said, just tell us about your trip first, and then I’ll ask questions.

Scott Foos: Yeah. Yeah. We recently, a couple of months ago launched Terrain by Horizon Outdoor Hospitality. Terrain is our consulting and professional services brand. And we had a client engage across a handful of different properties that they own to have us come in and really assess how they’re positioned at the market, what seems to be working well from a revenue management marketing strategy perspective, how that’s translating to boots on the ground with operations and really just kinda look at the ecosystem of their properties.

So it took us across, three different states for that, plus a fourth state that we were in. So we were in four states over two-ish weeks, and as part of that, drove through and talked with office staff at 50, 55 properties. It was an intense few weeks. Few weeks, but we’ve learned and I mean it really reconfirmed what we already knew, that this, the outdoor hospitality industry, at least in the States, is facing a demand challenge.

And, we saw that with with Toby’s top of mind email that came out, I think last week for the KOA system where, I think she, I’m looking at it here. Memorial Day was 9% below in camper nights. Victoria Day was 12% below in camper nights. So that transient demand. Is absolutely soft for most markets.

That’s not a universal statement, but for most markets and so a lot of properties, a lot of operators are pivoting to go into an extended state or chase the extended state business. And it’s really funny because it’s the exact opposite. It’s not funny, but it is, it’s interesting that it’s the exact opposite approach that all of us took.

A lot of us took four or five years ago, when the industry was booming and there was so much transient demand, and we were looking at properties with seasonal sites where those sites were sold out for the season and said, how do we, like, how do we smartly start to back that seasonal number down to a company?

Brian Searl: Get outta my park. You don’t pay enough money.

Scott Foos: That’s right. Yeah. But yeah, you’re, we’re only getting this much per site per year and we could be getting this much now it’s the opposite. And we’re seeing that, there’s only so much extended state business to go around, and there’s different types of extended state, of course, from your summer seasonal little business folks , it’s their lake house if you will, that they go to. Folks that just need to be in the area for a shorter term or, on a monthly worker basis.

And kind of anything in between there. And so when we were driving these properties, what the common theme that we continued to see was the properties that had an outward appearance of intentionality in the guest experience. Seemed to be performing better than their neighbors. And there was one property, I won’t say specifically where it was at, but it was in Tennessee.

Brian Searl: You have to say where it’s at.

Scott Foos: It was in Tennessee. But one property right next door was themed. And, it was a little kitschy, but it was great. There were staff around. You could see staff, you could see people out and about. Every site had some sort of landscaping element that tied back to the overall feel of the property.

And I’m not joking, that property was like 80% occupied, the one literally right next door, which is very clean. But very bland, and you didn’t see staff. The office had limited office hours was, like 25-30% occupied. And that’s an extreme example, but we continue to see that time and time again.

And so those operators, from my view anyways, the operators that are leaning into what makes their property really special and unique and stand out. And it doesn’t have to be anything grand. It could just be, great guest experience and, intentional, landscaping or it’s very clean.

You’re greeting your guests when they come in. When you really lean into those things it may take a little bit of time but guests will notice it and they’ll share about it in their reviews and, ultimately that will position your property in a better way. But it’s gotta be tied to like strategy revenue and marketing strategy.

And those that are able to dive into the data, see the trends working with, a great PMS, there are many out there that can give you that data and give you that level of insight. And then knowing what you’re looking for and how to adjust a strategy based on what you’re seeing from a revenue perspective and then tying it to the marketing approach is super important.

And so overall, it was reaffirming to me, I guess, of what we’ve seen. And the last thing, Brian, that I’ll mention is, and I’ve shared this company on this podcast before, but if you don’t subscribe to a company called Future Partners, you should you know what Scott Bahr and their group does is great for our industry specifically, and we follow what they do.

What these guys do is more broad for the travel industry overall nationally and internationally. And just today they had their State of the American Traveler series their monthly update. And it really hit home that Camping is uniquely positioned to be able to withstand economic turbulence, even though we’re seeing it, right?

We’re seeing demand soften. You have to look at it relative to other forms of travel. What was interesting to me was intent of travel was very high. It said 87% of people are extremely interested in travel and prioritize it in their budgets. But the mean US travel budget for a family was $5,500 and $5,500 for the year.

Brian Searl: What, per year? Okay.

Scott Foos: Per year. Per year. Sorry. Thank you. Yes, per year. That doesn’t get you very far today. And how families can stretch their travel budgets and make the most of it. I think by large, the overall outdoor hospitality industry is positioned in a way that can provide great value.

I’m sorry. The other thing that I wanted to say too, was that household incomes that are earning less than $98,000 a year are most impacted by the economic downturn in terms of their travel budgets. And they’re the ones that are cutting back travel the most when this economic downturn happens.

We’ve gotta be true to our roots. At least in the Camping industry, and we need to provide really great value, really great experience. It’s the same thing that we were talking about when we had all the transient demand four years ago. We said we had to provide great experience for these new folks to keep coming back.

And it’s more true than ever that we have to keep providing great experience to our core folks to stretch their dollars and remind them why Camping is so great. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think the one thing that, like lots of stuff obviously resonated with me when you were talking, but the one thing that stuck out to me was the uniquely positioned right.

There’s no question that Camping is uniquely positioned to be a benefit in a down economy or any time of the year for the reasons that Sarah talked about, for the reasons Elizabeth knows her guests come, for the reasons that Josie, when he’s travels with his family, or all his clients that uses apps the problem is that it’s a circle.

Like you can’t just have uniquely positioned over here, like you’re in a good location. Sarah can’t just have the plot of land. She’s gotta build an experience with good employees and good people who tell ’em to get off their phones and all the things, right? And Joe can be uniquely positioned to start an app company because the app store is big now, but if he builds a terrible app and doesn’t have good people that service it, and none of it works, he’s uniquely positioned that doesn’t mean he’s gonna have a good market and good success.

Same thing with Elizabeth. Same thing with you, Scott. Third party management with me and marketing, right? So there needs, there’s a larger conversation we keep having about that, and we don’t have time to have the whole thing right now, right? But there’s a larger conversation about that, that just, it’s a holistic experience.

And just like the park that was full on one side and the park that was empty on the other side, you’ve gotta do the whole circle.

Scott Foos: That’s right.

Brian Searl: You don’t have to do it like a hundred percent flawlessly to the excellent level of everything that you do, but you’ve gotta pay attention to the details.

Scott Foos: That’s right.

Brian Searl: You need to know what to look for, 

Elizabeth McIntosh: Sorry to interrupt guys, but I’m also gonna duck out. I gotta get my kids from school.

Brian Searl: Elizabeth, where can we, yeah, we’re almost wrapping up anyway, but Elizabeth, where can we see more or learn more about your glamping resort? And then, Sarah, you’re you too, and we’ll let you both go.

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, we have a website www.backfortyglamping.com and Instagram is our big thing, so you can find us easily on Instagram, @backfortyglamping. 

Brian Searl: Thank you so much, Elizabeth. I appreciate your time.

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah. Thanks for including me. It was such an honor. 

Brian Searl: Sarah, where can we learn more about Clayoquot? 

Sarah Cruse: And same thing is website, clayoquotwildernesslodge.com.

Brian Searl: You might have to spell that for the

Sarah Cruse: I think so. Yeah. C-L-A-Y-O-Q-U-O-T wildernesslodge.com. Clayoquotwildernesslodge.com. 

Brian Searl: Thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate it. I’m sorry we pulled you away to the world of electronics for an hour, but hopefully you can get back outside to the things that matter now.

Sarah Cruse: There you go. Enjoyed my time with you. It was lovely chatting. Thanks. Anyway, I learned quite a bit too, so I enjoyed our chat. You all have a great afternoon. Take care. 

Brian Searl: Thanks.

Scott Foos: Thanks, Sarah.

Brian Searl: Joe, any final thoughts before we wrap up? 

Joe Duemig: No. No. Summer’s upon us, all the customers are busy. They’re all quiet on my end. It’s our slow time. So it’s nice. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here as always, Joe. Where can they learn more about App My Community? 

Joe Duemig: I’m gonna appmycommunity.com. Schedule a demo, live demo with us, or we can you can actually build a app to play with on there as well.

Brian Searl: Thanks, Joe, appreciate it. Scott. 

Joe Duemig: Thank you. 

Brian Searl: Final thoughts? 

Scott Foos: Just remembering that, travel is part of our DNA and it’s what our guests are looking for, and we have to continue to build sustainability in our businesses by focusing on our team and allowing them and supporting them to focus on their guests.

So when times are turbulent. Make sure you’re lean, make sure you’re smart. But remember, your team needs you, your guests need your team, and we all meet our guests. Just please remember that’s all I’ve gotta say.

You can find me at horizonoutdoors.com for more information about who we are.

Brian Searl: Thank you guys for being here. I appreciate everybody for watching another episode of MC Fireside Chats. If you’re not sick and tired of hearing of me in about 50 minutes, I’m gonna be doing a two hour podcast called Outwired with Scott Bahr, Greg Emmert We’re gonna deep dive into some National Park numbers.

They are pretty horrific in some places and they’re impacting private campgrounds quite a bit outside them. So we’re gonna dive into that and a few other topics as well. So we’ll see you there. Otherwise, we’ll see you next week for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Thanks guys. 

Joe Duemig: Thanks! 

Scott Foos: Thank you