MC Fireside Chats – July 23rd, 2025

Brian Searl: What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks. Hi Mychele, I was just like we started the intro without you, Mychele, you were behind camera ’cause Jessica didn’t hear you beep and come in the waiting room. And so I like turned, where’s Mychele? She’s supposed to be here today. She’s right here. I just didn’t toggle the switch on to let her in. Welcome to the show.

Mychele Bisson: That’s okay.

Brian Searl: It’s exciting here. We’re here for a second week of something that’s, I guess maybe a passion obsession of mine. Obviously marketing, but also AI.

So this is the show that we’re gonna focus a little bit on those kinds of things going forward. And so we have a couple recurring guests here with us. We’re missing Greg Emmert today. He’s gratefully super busy with a bunch of clients and couldn’t make the show, so he’s swamped at his desk having a lot of success with new company, Verio.

So we’re proud of that and we’ll have him back next month hopefully, if he doesn’t get even more busy. But we do have Kurt Wilkins from Rjourney. We have Mychele Bisson, it’s Bisson, right? 

Mychele Bisson: Bisson, if you say French-y.

Brian Searl: That’s what I tried to do and then I just, I had too many s’s. Is that what like the, one of the s’s is almost silent or, 

Mychele Bisson: I just say, you say it’s snotty, it’s Bisson, but we just say it’s Bisson.

Brian Searl: Okay. Yeah. Like everything. That’s why I get into this argument with my girlfriend ’cause she’s from Canada and she learned a little bit of French over the pandemic. And so like I don’t know any of it, right? But I like the German language better than I like the French language. I dunno either of them.

But when we traveled, like right across the border, like it just German feels like a cooler language to me. Whereas everything you say in French just sounds arrogant. It just does. I’m not saying everybody’s arrogant. I’m not saying that’s the French people. I’m just saying it sounds that way when it comes outta your mouth, even the English words do.

Mychele Bisson: Oh, no. I actually say the same thing to my husband when he says no. ’cause I’m like, no. 

Brian Searl: Exactly. 

Mychele Bisson: Because it just sounds snotty. It’s just, I don’t know, it’s just a weird way that they say it. So I get it. 

Brian Searl: They’re wonderful people, right? Nobody saying.

Mychele Bisson: They’re beautiful people. Yes. 

Brian Searl: Anyway. Okay welcome back Mychele.

And then we have a couple special guests here. We have Kieron and we have Jeremy. So we’ll just go around the room real quick and we wanna introduce ourselves. We can start with our recurring guests if you want. Kurt, you wanna start? 

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah. My name’s Kurtis Wilkins. I’m with Rjourney. We manage and own 43 different campgrounds, and we have been in the industry through different verticals since 2017.

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for joining us again, Kurt. Mychele? 

Mychele Bisson: My name is Mychele Bisson. I am with Bison Peak Ventures. I feel like I’m the newbie to the group we own six campgrounds from Alaska to Florida, and we’ve been in the business for almost two years now. And we’re just growing our portfolio and learning as we go.

So I’m excited to be here and learn from you guys. 

Brian Searl: We’re still learning too, so you might be on the wrong show, but we’ll try. And then we have, Jeremy, you wanna introduce yourself? 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah. Hey guys. My name’s Jeremy. I am in the upper peninsula of Michigan, and I’m probably truly the newbie here. I just opened my first campground.

We’ve got 80 acres 40 rustic tent camping sites. And we’re on the southern shore of Lake Superior. It took about five years to get through the entitlements and permitting process, so I learned a ton. Yeah, it was quite the journey. But I’m like already ready for the next one, so two soon. 

Brian Searl: So that’s why you’re braver than me. I can’t ever own a campground. Like I would drive myself shit crazy. If I had to go through five years of permitting.

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah.

Brian Searl: Like I would probably end up in a mental hospital somewhere ’cause I would just wanna scream at all the counselors and all the permitting people and all the ’cause I’m the entrepreneur. I just want it to be done my way. Like I know best until you prove me wrong or Chat GPT does. Like I don’t really know best. But I think I do. So anyway, but kudos to you. I’m excited to talk about your campground and learn about what you’ve got going on up there. Kieron?

Kieron Wilde: Yeah. My name’s Kieron Wilde. I own a company called First Nature. We’re a destination management company and tour operator focusing on the west coast of North America. And I also own a company called Fur Haven which is freestanding guest house like a glamping setup with A-frame cabins in the Columbia River Gorge and we’re the in-house experience provider for a couple different setups in the Gorge region, including Under Canvas, which you’re probably all familiar with, which is just opened up at the end of May out here.

And the one called Wind Mountain Ranch on the Washington side of the Columbia River Gorge. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. So experiences for glamping providers and you on your own glamping thing too. So excited to talk to you about what some of those offerings are. Before we get to the regular thing, like I’ve got a couple things I wanna talk about today.

We’re gonna dive into a little bit about just ’cause the theme is AI, marketing. I wanna talk a little bit about the new Chat GPT agent that was released last week. We’re gonna take a look at a couple brief videos, see what that’s all about. Talk about how that’s gonna impact the future of is currently impacting the future of marketing and AI.

And then a little about perplexity’s browser release. But is there anything Mychele or Kurtis from your. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Mychele, do you catch any of that? 

Mychele Bisson: I actually didn’t. I was hoping you did. 

Kurtis Wilkins: I didn’t catch any of it either. Brian, I’m so sorry.

Brian Searl: No, that’s okay. Is my mic is, check my mic, Jessica. I click. 

Jeremy Johnson: That sounds better. 

Mychele Bisson: Oh, you’re back now. 

Brian Searl: Oh, I just cut in and out. Can you hear me really deep or does it sound like I’m far away?

Kieron Wilde: It sounds perfect right now.

Mychele Bisson: Second. 

Kieron Wilde: It was garbled before. 

Brian Searl: Oh, okay. I don’t know. Anyway. All right. I was just making sure the right mic was.

Mychele Bisson: He was trying his German. 

Brian Searl: Last week I was at a remote cabin trying to do it from my phone and I ended up being vertical. But the week before, like I had it, it was like picking up from my webcam all the way over there. So that’s how I was making sure that it was like this nice.

But anyway, typically we ask our recurring guests like, is there anything that came across your desk in the last month or so that you guys feel is important for us to bring up? And then, I don’t know if you caught it, but we’re gonna talk a little bit about Chat GPT agent.

And some of those things and how they’re gonna impact the camping industry. So, anything that’s come across you guys’ desk? 

Mychele Bisson: I feel like we’re constantly getting new things across our desk, but I mean from, all kinds of things from employees.

Brian Searl: Share you think it might impact the industry, like that kind of thing.

Mychele Bisson: I’m trying to think. I know like for us, we’re gonna start really heavily going into using some of the AI stuff, so I’m excited to talk about that.

Brian Searl: Okay. Very cool. Kurt? 

Kurtis Wilkins: The only thing that’s really come across my desk in the last three weeks has been a lot of acquisition news. I’ve been seeing a lot of consolidation, big deals, and so that’s really interesting. But other than that, a lot of the AI news we’ve talked about in the, in other episodes, but that’s ever evolving and I’m really excited and looking forward to a lot of integrations there.

Brian Searl: Do you wanna share any of the secret due diligence numbers behind your potential acquisitions with us? 

Kurtis Wilkins: They’re not my acquisitions, they’re just

Brian Searl: Oh, okay. Alright.

Kurtis Wilkins: Deals that are happening in the space.

Brian Searl: So competitive, like you have agents out there spying at everybody else and you just know.

Kurtis Wilkins: No, we just have clients and I know that they’re making some big moves. 

Brian Searl: China has that little fly that can land on the wall. That’s like a bug, like literally a bug. So you can monitor your competitors, just send it right in there. Have it be a fly on the wall. It’s actually a thing.

Mychele Bisson: Oh my gosh.

Brian Searl: It’s actually an invention. But Interesting. Okay. All right. So let’s briefly talk about to our special guests first. I wanna make sure we get enough time for them and then we can dive into a little bit of the agent stuff and the perplexity browser. So let’s start with Jeremy.

Jeremy, you said you went through this five year process, so obviously it’s something that was important to you. You’re passionate about you. How long had you wanted to do it? How did you get in your head that you wanted to start a campground? 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah, that’s a good question. I would say it is important to me and I am passionate about it.

Obviously spending five years opening one project. But the actual idea of opening a campground was a spur of a moment thing. A lot of my background is in residential real estate investing, single family and a little bit of multifamily. And we were talking about this earlier, but I’m in Marquette, Michigan in the upper peninsula, which is pretty tourism heavy.

And right around pretty much, as soon as the pandemic kicked off as a residential investor, we went from seeing, three bedroom, two bath house in Marquette. Go for about $180,000 to $250,000 overnight. And now, a three bedroom, two bath in the city of Marquette today in 2025 is $400,000.

So over a hundred percent increase in a very short amount of time. And back in 2020 we came to this point where we’re like, man, I don’t know if it makes sense for us to be in this residential market right now. The prices just weren’t making any, the math wasn’t adding up.

And then at the same time, like from a personal perspective I really didn’t like contributing to increased housing and, gentrification of the place I grew up in. And so we came across this 80 acre parcel on the edge of the city. It’s actually the entrance to our campground is the last parcel in the city of Marquette, which is part of the reason it took five years to go through this whole process. We sit in three different municipalities.

But we came across this 80 acre parcel that would’ve been impossible to develop housing on. And it just made sense to be a campground. And I thought what a better cooler way. It was this beautiful piece of land that overlooks like superior that nobody had access to.

And so I thought, I want to open this up. Even as somebody that grew up there, I had never been up there. So I wanted to open it up to the public, but obviously I had to do it in a financially stable or sustainable way. And then I wanted to diversify my portfolio, if you will. So Camping seemed like a fun thing.

And on the side, I’ve worked at, in the outdoor industry as a guide for probably 15 years. So it was right up my alley along with my two partners. 

Brian Searl: So what was your goal? What or what was, or is your goal with Kona Hills campground? What are you starting with? What are you, like just RV sites?

Are you gonna do some clamping? Are you gonna what’s your. A vision for it. 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah. So originally the vision was three to five cabins. We wanted to go higher end. We wanted to like make it this glamping experience like maybe like landscape hotel. I hear that thrown around a lot, but we found out pretty early on in our permitting process that the municipality that most of our land is in, anything more than two units for short term, they require you to get a campground license from the state of Michigan. The state of Michigan is one of the few states that actually requires licensing at the state level.

And so when we found that out, obviously that kind of changed the economics of the deal. And we ended up saying, let’s just get our campground license. And we opened with 40 rustic tent and car camping only spots. We’re now going through the process of permitting, and raising funds for seven cabins.

Four of them are below the cliff that we sit on. And then three of them are above the cliff with those views of Lake Superior. A as we go on, like the goal is really to continue to develop the property and add additional types of accommodations and amenities, but do it in a way where you’re still immersed in nature and we’re not, if you go and look at our Google reviews, almost every one of ’em mentions like, I love the privacy, I love that this isn’t a parking lot full of RVs.

People like being immersed. And so we don’t want to take that away. We wanna add these accommodations mindfully. 

Brian Searl: So what were some of the things, and I’m just curious, this is about your campground and about your experiences. ’cause we’ve talked about this on the show, previously.

When you talk about the target audience that you currently have, tent campers and car campers. There are a lot of people in my experience, in our industry that are hesitant to welcome less so tent campers, but more so car campers. Yeah. Into their RV parks, let’s call it, or glamping establishments. Because there’s a stereotype, and I don’t know if it’s entirely unjustified, but in the past or currently, there are, I don’t wanna say a significant number, a portion of people who car camp, who are like long-term seasonals that don’t take care of their sites, they’re in every vertical, right?

Yeah. It just happens, for some reason be a little bit more visible with car camping and tent camping or stick out in the mines, more of owners. So what has been your experience with that? Because I pushed back against this with some of our clients. I had a conversation with one, earlier this week, where they were talking about how, we’re hesitant, we want more business, we don’t know where to get it from, and I was talking about some of these niche places that you can open up, like allowing 11-year-old rig instead of 10 year, or allowing, deluxe tents or car camping.

And she said the same thing to me and I said go YouTube and look at the camping and Tesla Model Y. It has camping mode and it has an air mattress that Tesla sells. And these are $90,000 cars that people are tent camping in. And she’s oh, I’d love to have those people.

Of course you would. So I’m curious what your thoughts is and your experiences with those. 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah. Maybe it’s just like the age range that I’m in. I’m 36, I’m a millennial. But like truck camping and car camping was like cool for us, and I think like when we were going through this permitting process. We got a lot of pushback from our local community about this concept of trucking car camping.

They were like, we don’t want homeless people at your campground. I’m like, guys, these are $200,000 sprinter vans were servicing here. I hear you. Everybody’s gotta be responsible, but man I loved it.

Like it’s low maintenance, it’s low impact on the land. I’m not dealing with a 40 foot RV. And it allows us to be more unique. Our entrance to our campground, like I said, we’re 200 feet above Lake Superior. You couldn’t get a 40 foot camper up our driveway. We got 9% grades.

Open an RV park up there is impossible. But now I can have sprinter vans or even an old Ford with a Quigley four by four conversion on it. They can make it up that hill and they can go and find like a super cool remote spot tucked away amongst like the rock out croppings that we have.

To me that’s awesome. I love it. And even like one of my neighbors who came to our grand opening, our ribbon cutting. He refused to see the project. He was against it, this whole homeless concept. And when he came up for that ribbon cutting and saw what we did and saw the people that were coming up there. He came up to me afterwards and he was like, I just wanna say this has been a long process, but you guys did a great job.

This looks amazing and we’re happy to have you as a neighbor. That was a great moment for me. 

Brian Searl: It is interesting to me. We have another podcast that I do called Outwired after this, and last two weeks ago, we took last week off, we did a show about the 1975 to 2025 and the evolution of Camping and the different types of pop-up trailers they had and rigs and all kinds of things.

And it was quite fascinating to learn about. And today we’re gonna do 2025 to 2075 and give some kind of crazy predictions. But it is really interesting to me to learn about, I’d love to do a show, I think on Outwired about how we evolve to be the industry we are today, I know there’s a good reason behind it, right? I just don’t know what it is. ’cause I haven’t researched it.

But it would be interesting to see why were many RV parks built the way they were with sites so close together and so narrow and like they were obviously built for a certain type of rig, but why did they not emphasize more tent camping or more car camping or more nature experiences or I’m sure it was built for a specific type of audience.

The people we call boomers today who were obviously not boomers back then. But it would be fascinating thing to understand how we got to where we are because I think that the future of where we are going is still RVing, is still car camping and tent camping and all of the above and glamping and everything else.

But I think it’s a whole lot more of nature and experiences. And we’ve seen that people are demanding this stuff and Marriott’s getting into the game. But I think it’s way more of that, and I don’t think there’s a clear guideline blueprint for many park owners out there. Certainly people like Kurtis, you own multiple parks, Mychele, you own multiple parks.

You can look at this and you can step back and see what works well, one other place and dozens another. And you have key takeaways. But I don’t think there’s a really good blueprint for how do I build an RV park that’s not a typical RV park. 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah. I don’t know that there is either. And I’ve actually had people tell me, they’re like some of these modular units, whether it’s like the zook cabins or the ÖÖD houses, some of those people that sell those are like, oh, like we don’t actually want our units to be located next to tent sites because we feel that it devalues that property.

And I just don’t know that I believe that personally. I’m the new guy. This is my first campground, but from my experience and my customers and the way our park is set up. You could be at a zook cabin in the north corner of our property and there could be a tent camper, and you’d never cross paths.

I think those experiences can go hand in hand more than people realize now, if you put a ÖÖD house in the middle of an RV park, that might not work.

Brian Searl: That’s the thing. I think that’s what they’re talking about. They’re talking about a stereotypical RV park. They think you’re gonna put it literally right next to a tent site with a paved gravel driveway and, right, or something like that.

And so I don’t think that they have your park in the picture of their head when they’re saying no to you. I also think it depends on the landscaping and how you design the park and things like that.

I’m curious for the people here who are looking at, maybe I wanna offer tent camping in the future, maybe I wanna offer open myself up to a little bit to car camping. How do you market to those people and find them? 

Jeremy Johnson: So I’m lucky. I have what I call inherent demand. I’m 40 minutes away from Picture Rocks National Lakeshore, which sees 1.2 million visitors every year. I’m the only privately owned campground in the city of Marquette. It’s just my entrance that’s in the city, and then the rest of the campgrounds in Sands Township. And there’s two privately owned campgrounds, maybe eight miles away from me. And Marquette sees a million visitors every year between summer and winter tourism. So I also have a background in SEO and digital marketing. So I list on Google. I don’t list on Hipcamp. I did. It was too much of a pain. I don’t.

Brian Searl: Can I ask why? 

Jeremy Johnson: Honestly, the backend of Hipcamp has not been the easiest to work through. And it’s really hard to set expectations across multiple platforms. I think, channel managers are more popular in the Airbnb space, even in the hotel space.

But like I use Park, if anybody’s familiar with that, for my reservation manager. Which is a great team, relatively new company. But there’s not a lot of channel managers for tent camping, and so there’s just too much confusion with setting expectations.

Like we’re a self-service campground too. We don’t have a check-in center. And so I need to be able to communicate effectively with my customers via email and SMS, and Hipcamp just didn’t quite allow for that to happen. So we, after maybe three or four weeks we delisted from being able to book on Hipcamp and all these other platforms.

And we’re a hundred percent direct bookings at this point. So for me it’s just all about making sure I show up when people Google camping near me, or camping in Marquette. And then Google reviews. I’ve got, I think now we’re up to 36 reviews and we’ve got, an average rating of 4.9 stars on Google. The only other park that ranks above me has 600 plus reviews. But I’m right behind him, so it’s just about visibility. 

Brian Searl: Cool. Thank you. I appreciate, is there anything we missed talking about that you want to throw in there about Kona Hills? Like we want you to join the conversation as we keep going along, but 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah, no, if you haven’t been to the UP, I highly suggest it. It’s a lesser-known gem. Kieron said he is been there ’cause he grew up in Wisconsin. But not a lot of people make it up there. And I love it and I’m glad that I get to represent it.

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks you for being here, Jeremy, as we can keep going and we talked to a few other, we talk to Kieron and we talk about AI and all the things if you have anything to say, please jump in. Just ask questions, feel free. 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah. And I don’t mean to discount Hipcamp. Great platform. And if you are guys.

Brian Searl: Oh no. Yeah.

Jeremy Johnson: If you are getting started in tent camping and like I’m in southeast Wisconsin right now. I stayed at a Hipcamp two nights ago because guess what? Everything in southeast Wisconsin is RV parks, and I don’t wanna stay in an RV park.

I wanted privacy, so I booked at a Hipcamp. And the Hipcamp, most of ’em down here are one to four sites. Amazing for that. But when you get scale, I’m trying to own my customer relationships. I don’t really like dealing with marketplaces and having that intermediary. I want to talk directly to my customers.

Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure. I know Alyssa, I’ve known her for years. It’s a great company and I frequently tell people to list on Hipcamp too, if you’re in a good position like you are, where you already have the built in demand, it’s a little bit of an easier trade off, right?

Jeremy Johnson: Totally.

Brian Searl: But if they’re not charging you, like we went through this with a couple sites or people were asking me this I think last week, where do I list, how much do I pay? All these people want money from me, and my stock answer is without looking at them individually, if they’re trying to charge you a monthly fee without guaranteeing they’re gonna deliver anything, don’t do it.

But if they’re willing to charge you a percentage, then really there’s no harm as long as you are doing, other than the once in a while the problems, like you’re talking about, that you run into that maybe it isn’t a good fit for your park, there really is no harm to putting yourself out there as long as you’re doing your own marketing and still trying to drive your own traffic because you don’t wanna pay that 12.5% forever.

And the person I was talking to didn’t have online reservations, so I said, eh, like obviously you need something. Get your Campspot or your NewBook, or your ResNexus or whatever up. And do that stuff first. But yeah.

Kieron, how you doing there?

Kieron Wilde: Yeah, I’m good.

Brian Searl: Are you in, what are you in right now? You said you’re in your van. It’s a nice van.

Kieron Wilde: I’m in one of our Mercedes.

Brian Searl: I can’t even afford a Mercedes Sprinter.

Kieron Wilde: Jeremy probably sees a lot of converted into campers, but this is a passenger van. 

Brian Searl: Kurtis, will you buy me a Mercedes Sprinter van so I can do the show from it?

Kurtis Wilkins: Oh maybe Brian, come down to watch and we’ll see what we can do. 

Brian Searl: Kieron, tell us about First Nature Tours. 

Kieron Wilde: Sure. So yeah, first and foremost, you know, industry speaking, but we call ourselves the destination management company for the West Coast. What that kind of means is we package experiences together with accommodations, attractions, all those things. And we often sell them to tour operators that are sending people from other places to this destination, especially the Pacific Northwest region of North America, like Alaska, down to San Francisco. And we have our own guides. We have our own sprinter vans and we’re working on our own hospitality component as well.

But I’ve been in the industry for about 18 years now, focusing on the Pacific West. And I saw a need for hospitality component, especially in the Columbia River Gorge, but selling the region at large where those kind of like opportunity spots exist. So that’s kinda why we decided to get into the hospitality as well, not just operator component, but also like a company. 

Brian Searl: So how do you end up going, obviously 18 years is a long time, I’ve been in business 16 years like everybody seems to think I’m an overnight success, but I spent 16 years doing it and I know, I’m sure you spent 18 years doing it too.

And Kurt and Mychele, well Mychele is just getting started. You’re only at two years and you’re already at six parks, you’re gonna be at like 800.

Mychele Bisson: Oh God.

Brian Searl: By the time you have 16 years in.

Mychele Bisson: That’s gonna take a lot of systems in place. 

Brian Searl: That’s all right. Systems are gonna get easier with AI. We’re gonna talk about that on the show.

Kieron Wilde: I hope so.

Brian Searl: But talk us through the story of like how do you get started with this and then how do you grow to be, you said you’re a vendor for Under Canvas, right? Which is probably a highly competitive and sought after position. 

Kieron Wilde: Yeah. Just being around long enough and knowing the right people is nine-tenths of it. So like I said, 18 years of industry experience focusing mostly on the west coast. We know the right people. There’s not a lot of people to do the kind of higher end luxury type travel, custom private experiences that we do. So there’s not a ton of competition in that realm, honestly, where we are.

And I physically relocated, me and my family moved out to the Columbia River Gorge, the National Scenic area about two years ago. We’re just a natural fit for Under Canvas out there. Under Canvas, talking about permitting and like barriers, politically and legally to getting these kind of things off the ground.

They struggled for many years to try and get that location approved. And I think they still have ongoing litigation going on with some nonprofits in the area. And we’ve run into our own roadblocks, trying to do the Fur Haven project where we are. We bought 20 acres, thinking because it was a conditional use allowance for campgrounds, and then found out that there’s like some fine print somewhere in there that the conditional use requires some kind of a natural feature, which was very vague to me or else a hunting and fishing ground adjacent to it in the county that we’re in.

I don’t know what that means, but we basically bought 20 acres adjacent to where our house is, and then found out that we couldn’t, at least without a ton of probably litigation in many years of what Jeremy went through before we could actually get off the grounds.

We found a property that was already permitted that used to be a Thousand Trails Property, which is kinda like a KOA. 

Brian Searl: Yep.

Kieron Wilde: And so we found one out here that had been purchased by somebody who was using part of the property for a totally different usage. And it had a fire go through and burn down, like pretty much all the infrastructure, but it still had all of the level perfect little spots already set up.

That’s actually worked out really well. ’cause then, we’re actually able to just pay a land use fee, per booking, for the spots that we use when we use them. And we don’t have to own the land outright. And it’s already has historical usage as a campground.

So that was a win-win in the end. And it allows for a lot more capacity, like if we want to like, grow and expand. ’cause right now we’re really in the early phases of getting units built and taking group business on a case-by-case basis for like summer camps, corporate retreats, that kind of stuff.

Brian Searl: So what’s your vision of it when it’s in, let’s say it’s mid stages, where do you see it going, if you have everything going the right way? 

Kieron Wilde: So the focus that we have is really on the mobility of these units. They’re basically on a trailer, but unique in the sense that they’re an A-frame and, very simple but very elegant styling.

And the key part of that is they can be moved. It’s not a permanent structure. If the relationship with the landowner changes we find a different location to move them to. And like in the long run, what I see is finding places that are attractive seasonally and have that demand for overnight accommodations and being able to relocate them to those places.

And we saw that happen with the 2017 eclipse here. A big event like that where you’re all of a sudden you have literally millions of people coming to rural places in a state like Oregon that, in rural areas does not have the infrastructure to handle that many people. You can find a land, find a landowners, put like 12 of these units on it, move them over to where they need to be.

And then, you’ve got a instant hospitality set up and you build the experiences around that, which is what we specialize in. And, you can meet some of that need at least and make a lot of money doing it because there’s a huge demand for those kind of things, concerts, all that kind of stuff.

Brian Searl: And I’m told that anything on wheels, and I’m not an accountant to be clear, but I’m told anything on wheels is now a wonderful tax deduction due to a new law we have in the United States. Or you guys have in the United States. So depreciation and all those kinds of things. So whether you like the man or don’t like the man, I’ll pay a little bit less taxes probably.

Kieron Wilde: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: I’ll be on board with that. So tell me about some of your experiences. What are some of the things that people can expect, if they go to an Under Canvas or go to your campground or go to someplace that you service? What are some of the experiences that they can look forward to that your company offers?

Kieron Wilde: In region, we are.

Brian Searl: We’re losing you a little bit, Kieron, I don’t know if you hop back in your van, but you started breaking up a little bit.

We’ll see if you come back in a second.

Mychele Bisson: Oh no, I was really interested in that. 

Kurtis Wilkins: I was as well.

Brian Searl: Oh. There he is. He might be back. You’re back. Kieron, are you back? There we go. Okay.

Kieron Wilde: Did you?

Brian Searl: No, you were just breaking up a little bit. So did you hear my question?

Kieron Wilde: Good question, and I was trying to answer it. I can restate it if you can hear me now.

Brian Searl: Yeah. I think we can hear you now. 

Kieron Wilde: Okay. Sorry about that. Yeah, so to answer your question this region is really diverse, similar to like I’d say New Zealand in that we can go from the ocean to like rainforest on the coast to 14,000 foot high snow capped peaks that are snowy year round to high desert that gets 10 inches of rainy year, sagebrush.

We have all that within a day’s drive. It’s pretty crazy. And a world class wine country in the Willamette Valley and in the Yakima area in Washington. There’s a lot you can do in the Gorge, in the Columbia Gorge thousands of miles of hiking trail and the highest concentration of waterfalls in North America are both huge attractions.

We also have really good whitewater rafting out there. And people come from all over for steelhead fishing. And we have great skiing, world class skiing up on Mount Hood. So it’s pretty diverse what you can do. And it’s definitely a four season destination. 

Brian Searl: So your company will help people like plan those experiences? Do they take ’em on guided tours or what do you?

Kieron Wilde: Yes, and yes. Yeah, we handle a lot of B2B, like I said, where we’ll actually create tour packages for other tour operators or for travel agents that have VIP client where they want everything, very white glove and like touchdown to take off everything handled.

We also will do, like for Under Canvas or some of the other Hospitality Pro, we have a partnership with the Ritz-Carlton here in Portland, where we’ll do like bespoke packages that they can sell to their guests that are very unique and tailored to their brand. And then corporate events, team building, school groups. We do it all. We have different divisions that kind of handle different things. 

Brian Searl: So you’re obviously targeting the high end, but what do you think in your words, sets your company apart from the other people who offer experiences? I know you said your market’s limited at the high end, but just from an experiential standpoint. 

Kieron Wilde: It’s not necessarily limited to high end, but it is all about the having unique experiences that you can’t just easily access on your own. So that’s that destination knowledge that we bring to the table. Our team is like highly trained. Our guide quality is above and beyond pretty much anyone in the region.

So we’re offering like that really high level of knowledge that can take you places that you couldn’t find on your own, at least not very easily. And, we also are very committed to sustainability. We won a global award last year for our commitment to regenerative tourism and to promoting like socially conscious events, L-G-B-T-Q events around the region.

We’re really committed to making a positive impact through tourism. And I think that’s worth mentioning as well. And probably one of the things that sets us apart the most is that commitment. 

Brian Searl: Mychele and Kurtis, you’ve both been uncharacteristic quiet, I feel like, for the show.

But I wanna make a couple questions here. So I’m curious what you think about the experiences overall. If you have questions for Kieron, if you have questions for Jeremy, ask that stuff. But I’m curious too, what you guys think of the overall. We’ve talked a lot about in the show, not necessarily with you guys, but about how experiences are the future and I feel like there’s just this huge overlooked opportunity for not all campgrounds, but for a large majority who aren’t thinking about how I can go that extra mile to curate the guest experience, whether it’s through a company like Kieron or whether it’s just through, like we were talking about somebody adding little store kiosks around the park. So the kids run up there and say mom, I want the little candy that’s behind there. And they see it 10 times during their state, they’re gonna get that candy. They will by the end of it, so you’re gonna sell more store items or the QR code by your pool that they can pull up on their phone and they can order a floaty for their kid who just got in. They’re not gonna pull ’em out and go to the store.

So I feel like there’s a lot of missing opportunity there that it sounds like small dollars, but I feel like it adds up to big dollars.

Mychele Bisson: I know like for me, I have to say that one of the best things that I like about the whole campground industry is that there’s so many different things and there’s so many different ways and it’s so diverse and they all work.

And I think that’s amazing. Like Jeremy with his vision and all the things that he’s got going on there, like it’s not just, let’s go to an RV park. It’s let’s go and like camp out next to a rock. Like I love that you can do that and it works. And people love that. And there are people who look for that as there are people who are looking for tent camping and people looking for RV camping.

And I love the fact that, like Kieron’s created this whole experience thing where people can go out and have these full on experiences. But those things all work within the campground industry. And that’s like just why I love this industry so much. I came from investor background too. I actually started in single family homes, started with long-term rentals, moved into short-term rentals, then built a luxury resort in Scottsdale, which I’m actually, I still own it, but when I moved into the RV industry, it was, look at all the different avenues that we can go down and we can create all of those experiences.

But we can do them in one asset class. And that was the fun of going into this, was that it was just, there’s so many different things we can do. And every single one of our parks is completely different from another park. And that I love too. Our Alaska Park is literally, it is like a parking lot.

But the thing is people don’t go there for that park. They go there for the experience of everything that surrounds that park. And we just play that up. And so it’s just, you can sit in the middle of our park and see six glaciers. We don’t have the glaciers inside of our park. But you get access to all of them because you stay here.

Brian Searl: You have to get a pretty big park to have a glacier inside it, but. 

Mychele Bisson: Right. I know. But it’s actually the largest park in Alaska. But it’s just, yeah, when you look at it, it looks like a parking lot. But how many of those people are there? None of them. They’re all out exploring. The beauty that is Valdez and like hiking or mountain biking or out fishing for halibut.

And so we will actually have the fishermen bring everything back and we’ll do fish fries on the campground once a month. And it’s just a great experience of all these people creating this community with people they wouldn’t know anywhere else. And that is one of the things that I love above, like my resort in Scottsdale is, I don’t know anybody who stays there. But I can tell you about Jean from Iowa who comes and hangs out with me in Branson.

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah. I skipped over this. I touched on it briefly, my park is that we see again 1.2 million visitors to Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore, which has cruises and tours and all that stuff. And then another million to Marquette. And one of the things that we’re working on right now, in addition is so the 200 feet above, about seven acres of our property is an old rock quarry that used to go all the way to the Two Lake Superior. And so that Rock Quarry is a straight 90 degree vertical, 200 feet up and 250 feet wide. And Kieron, you might be familiar with this, but we have in Munising at P ictured Rocks, we have Michigan Ice Fest, which is the largest ice climbing festival in North America, and it’s been going on for 25 plus years.

Brian Searl: Nice. 

Jeremy Johnson: People from all over the world, come to climb ice on the Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore for two weeks out of the year, and you can only climb it two weeks out of the year. And there’s been over 25 years, there’s this community that has developed and people want to climb more.

And so we now have this cliff that you could climb. It’s winter, six months out of the year in the UP you could, instead of two weeks, you could be climbing for six months and we could be artificially farming ice. So when you look at like a Sandstone, Minnesota, you look at Ouray, Colorado, you look at Key Bodies down in lower Michigan where they’re farming ice on a telephone pole.

Like those are the types of experiences that we wanna curate going forward. And even mountain biking too. We sit directly behind the NTN Trail Network, which is one of the largest trail networks of single track in the Midwest. not exactly sure, but I think it’s the largest, the most mileage of single track east of the Mississippi.

Think the only part trail system with more is out west. So that’s huge for us. And I don’t know if any of you guys are familiar, but like Bentonville is a huge inspiration to what we’re doing and we have in Copper Harbor a few hundred miles away from me, just North we have Rock Solid Trail Building company, which is the largest trail building company in the world at this point, with over 250 employees. That’s owned by Aaron Rogers, who’s like a crazy amazing visionary guy. But that’s been. 

Brian Searl: Not the quarterback who held that on the Steelers, right? 

Jeremy Johnson: Not the quarterback. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Oh, I think the quarterback in my mind for sure.

Jeremy Johnson: No he’s, you know what Aaron Rogers the quarterback is an interesting guy, but Aaron Rogers the trail builder might be more interesting.

Brian Searl: I probably agree with you. 

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah. Look up Rock solid if you guys haven’t heard of it. But that’s the stuff that gets me excited in the long run is being able to like, offer rock climbing in the summer, ice climbing in the winter single track all year round. Fat tire biking in the winter. I can’t wait for that stuff.

Brian Searl: Yeah. It’s gonna be interesting. Kurtis, do you have anything to add? 

Kurtis Wilkins: I wanted to just piggyback one on Kieron, I love another Pacific Northwest guy getting on the show. Shout out the Columbia Gorge.

Our company, we always say it’s the best kept secret of the United States, it’s the Pacific Northwest especially with the Columbia River Gorge. And then Mychele again, piggy back, off of what you were talking about, like unique experiences for each one of our campgrounds. That’s one of my favorite parts about our campgrounds is each one is so different, right?

We start off like we have, the coast, the Pacific Coast with Canna and that park has a very unique clientele. They’re very different than the people that stay with us. Excuse me, by the way, I am having terrible allergies right now. I’m crying. 

Brian Searl: Are you allergic to me or is it something else?

Kurtis Wilkins: I am allergic to pollen. But specifically like grass and trees.

Mychele Bisson: And you’re in campgrounds.

Brian Searl: And you’re Yeah, I was just about to say that.

Kurtis Wilkins: And I’m in campgrounds. I do, I love the outside. I grew up Camping I put up with the allergies, but I just wanted to warn you, so.

Brian Searl: Totally fine.

Kurtis Wilkins: I’m running outta breath sometimes and that might be why I’m abnormally quiet today.

We also, I don’t know if anyone knows, but there’s a giant fire outside of our office. It’s actually like 45 miles southwest of Austin.

Brian Searl: I did not know that. Is it moving fast? Do they have it under control or? 

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah, they’re gonna get under control. We’ve there’s about, there’s 40 miles between us. It’s just tons of

Kieron Wilde: Where’s your office? 

Kurtis Wilkins: We’re in Goldendale, Washington.

Kieron Wilde: Oh, gosh. You’re so close to me. I didn’t realize that.

Kurtis Wilkins: I know. I was like Kieron, I think you’re

Kieron Wilde: Burdoin. No, I’m in Bo

Kurtis Wilkins: What I was guessing.

Kieron Wilde: The Burdoin. You’re talking about the Burdoin fires?

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah.

Kieron Wilde: I’m way closer to that than you are. I’m literally, I’m five miles from that fire. Five miles.

Mychele Bisson: Oh my god.

Kieron Wilde: Yeah.

Kurtis Wilkins: Moser was just on fire.

Kieron Wilde: Yes, it was. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Wasn’t it?

Kieron Wilde: Which makes me feel better about this fire because if it jumps the river, there’s nothing left to burn. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. That’s stuff tough to deal with. We’re up here, I’m up here in Calgary and my girlfriend’s parents have a cabin. I was at it last week in on Lake Shushwap, but we were dealing with that for a couple years up here in BC. Like we still have some fires up here, but thankfully. Like once in a while, like probably two, three days outta the year, the whole city of Calgary will get like really smoky during the summer and then it just goes away. We were pretty lucky, but yeah, we’ve had to deal with that. We had to almost evacuate, I think two years ago from our cabin. ’cause you have to go down a road, like 45 minute dirt road to get to the cabin. So that’s the only way out. So if the fire’s all the way up here, even if it’s 45 minutes away, you gotta get out anyway. But yeah it’s tough to go through that stuff. I’m glad you guys are safe. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: Alright. Do we wanna talk about AI or do we have any other questions for Jeremy or Kieron that we wanna do? Or A little bit? 

Kurtis Wilkins: Kieron I would love to talk to you outside of this podcast

Brian Searl: Drive over you could probably be there by the time the show’s over. Kieron, you’re in your van. 

Kurtis Wilkins: I know. I’m like, I’m probably gonna drive over there. Come see you.

Kieron Wilde: I’m in Portland right now.

Kurtis Wilkins: Jump in the van.

Kieron Wilde: Yeah let’s do it. Come to Hood River Hole, have a beer and go rafting. 

Brian Searl: I like Portland. Portland used to be one of my favorite cities in the US and I say used to be, ’cause I feel like it was just different like six or seven years ago. It still really nice city.

Kieron Wilde: Definitely still really awesome. But yeah, it had a little. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, the breweries and the food were my top two things in Portland and that the little bookstore, like the giant bookstore. 

Kieron Wilde: Powells. Yeah.

Jeremy Johnson: Powells. Yeah. Yeah. So bend is my favorite. I love Bend. 

Brian Searl: Which one?

Jeremy Johnson: That’s also very cool. Bend Oregon.

Brian Searl: Oh yeah. Yeah. I’ve been up along the coast there and I’m trying to remember we’re at the border there with California, right? What’s that big, huge deep lake there? I can’t remember the name of it off the top of my head.

Kurtis Wilkins: Crater lake?

Brian Searl: Crater Lake, yeah. 

Kieron Wilde: Yeah, where the Shasta too is down there by the border.

Brian Searl: Yep. Yeah, there’s a ton of beautiful places. I’d love to get there more, but I also am super spoiled and 45 minutes from Banff, so there’s a lot of competition for my attention up here, so I’ll try to get down there.

Kurtis Wilkins: You’re from Canada. You have plenty of nature on your side of the mortar. I wanna come up there and see some stuff.

Brian Searl: Yeah, we’re definitely spoiled up here. All right. Let’s talk about AI for a second. Last 13 minutes of the show Jessica, there’s a couple videos that I have. We probably won’t get to all of them. I want to start with, let’s start with just the, let’s start with the research one. Do the research one instead of the intro. Hopefully it’ll be okay.

This is Chat GPT agent. This is, you have to share your screen, and then they released this last Wednesday, OpenAI announced this. So before we play this, and you can hit share, but before we play this, I just wanna set the preface by saying for those of you who don’t know what an agent is, an agent is something that can basically take action on your computer and do something using a tool.

So send an email or check your calendar or book an appointment or like search for something without you telling it every step of the way to do that certain thing, to follow up, to do more. These have been out for the geeks like me who play with AI. These have been around for two years, probably.

They’ve gotten significantly better. But this, as far as last week was the first time that Chat GPT or another company really fully dumped this on probably tens of millions of people. I don’t think it’s available on their free subscription, but it’s available, I think on the $20 a month pro teams plans.

And then it’s available on the one that I pay for that’s $200 a month or whatever. It’s limited in use right now, but this is where our future’s going. So lemme play this and then we’ll talk about it a little bit. 

Video Stream: So we have been on this journey of not just improving our models, but the tools the model can use. And it’s like a symbolism of some kind. Like the better the tools are, the better the agent can use it, the better the agent is, the more powerful tool it can use. And it like goes on and on.

I am David ish, I’m an engineer and I work on the product team in OpenAI. People in their daily lives at work or in like personal life, they use like a variety of tools and we are just training the model to take advantage of all of these things and you’re just giving the agent as much power as possible.

Today I asked agent to book me an itinerary to go to a tennis tournament in Palm Springs, next year find me an itinerary that works around the semifinals because that’s gonna be really exciting. And the agent is basically going to give me like a detailed itinerary of like how much it’s gonna cost, what activities we should be doing at every part of the day.

And in order to give it additional spin, we also ask it to look at my calendar and figure out like what flight times would work for me. My dream has come true. I just tell it what to do and then I can walk away. First thing that the model has to do is like figure out, which tools does it need?

It’ll bring up the visual browser. I use connectors to connect my personal data, so I give agent access to my Gmail and my Google calendar so that they can access that data. Then the first thing that it needs to do is actually figure out what the tournament dates are like, when am I available, how much would it cost?

Where am I gonna eat, and when can I get the tickets? And it just goes through this process for all three days of my itinerary. When the agent is ready, it’ll send you a notification on your phone or on your laptop and you can check what the agent has done. Review it. It did. It did pretty well. It figured out essentially that the tournament is basically happening from like March 12th to March 15th.

Then it figured out that my meetings on March 12th end at 4:30 and it takes about an hour to go from here to SFO ’cause of the traffic. So it figured out like what time of flights actually work for me. And then figured out basically like which hotel I’m gonna stay at when I’m attending the matches and where should I be eating.

Everybody has some sort of uninteresting part of the job, like researching, looking here, doing this. You just want to get to the thing and agent lets me do with that. 

Brian Searl: Okay. So I think it’s important for us to say is, and maybe this looks cool to you, maybe this looks scary to you, depending on who you are and who, whether you’re watching or on our panel of guests here like this is just the beginning.

This is the baby step, right? Like right now, what you’re seeing is it like you can connect your Google calendar, you can connect your Gmail. There’s a bunch of other connectors in there like HubSpot and things like that. And it will use those and take action on your behalf to, like you said, close the laptop, go away, come back, all the things are done for you.

And yes, you could lightly research prices before you could lightly have it go and think of itineraries, but you couldn’t have it compare that to your calendar. You couldn’t have it go through prices in real time. And the next easy step of that logically is to completely book the whole thing for you.

And the only thing that’s stopping that in this open AI case is that it’s doing everything in the cloud. And so then you have to deal with security of your credit cards and all those kinds of things. But where that’s gonna change is what I’m gonna show you right now. Jessica, go to Perplexity’s comment and play that real quick, and then we’ll talk about it. That one. Yep.

And Google’s coming out with tools like this. And then OpenAI is rumored to come out with a tool like this, and this is available now too. We’ll talk about who’s available to you in a second, but.

Video Stream: Pull up the clip of Jensen demoing Perplexity Labs. 

I’ve pulled up a YouTube video showing Jensen demoing perplexity labs at GTC Paris. It should be at that moment now to formulate what is now. A Gentech AI. Let’s take a look at one example. Lemme show you something. It’s built on perplexity.

Brian Searl: Okay, we’re good Jessica. So like this is again, this is early too. This perplexity, for those of you who don’t know, is an AI search engine that’s been around for a couple years. They’re not a challenge to go. They are in some ways, right? But they’ve only got a couple million, I dunno what a couple a hundred million searches a day or something like that versus 96 billion some for Google.

So they’re not really competition, but they are eating away at some of the market share and they just release this browser. It’s a competitor to Google Chrome. You can’t go download it today unless you’re part of their really super expensive AI subscription for $200 a month, which I will probably join after this just for a month to test this out and then cancel it.

‘Cause I have other spend too much on AI is what I do. But, so we’ll probably try to demo that either later on Outwired or in a future show. But the difference between that is that it runs on your computer locally. And so you’re seeing the early stages of this stuff where you have to type everything in.

Everything is eventually gonna be voice or it’s gonna intuit what you need. It’s gonna ask you what time of year you want to go Camping. It’s gonna prompt you to say, in February what time or it’s time to book your annual Camping trip. Where do you think you wanna go? Here’s some suggestions I have for you based on what you liked before or what Google reviews you left before, Jeremy was talking about.

I know what you like and don’t like. ’cause I have access to all this stuff. This is moving along at a speed and pace that like I have a hard time keeping up with. And it’s gonna be really interesting to start to think how this is going to impact the broader campground industry as a whole.

Because while we could take this in multiple different paths, the clear thing that you’re looking at right now is a non-human entity browsing your website and making decisions based on your website and its content with a human being never setting eyes on it. And then that human being is getting a summary of what that agent read, and that agent consumed and that agent understood.

And then the human being is deciding based on that agent summary and not your website copy, and not your agonizing, carefully crafted CTA button that you spent two weeks going back and forth with the marketing department about. And all this is changing and all of it’s flattening. And I think it’s just really interesting.

Does anybody have any thoughts on that? 

Kurtis Wilkins: My original thought is that I see the internet and like way we communicate is actually we communicate with agents. We keep UIs available for when the human does want to actually look and explore the website.

But it’s gonna be robust APIs that are gonna be running the, like all industry. And how do we document that API and make sure that these agents and these AIs understand and they can use our APIs to make purchasing events happen and schedule reservations. And that’s where I see this next frontier of the internet.

Brian Searl: Yeah, the internet, like the online experience, whatever you wanna call it. It’s like the SEO thing we talked about a month ago. Like we don’t really need a name for it. It just is, you just do it like it’s, you do good SEO like Jeremy was talking about, or you do good marketing, it’s just something that you do. But yeah, like I think it’s amusing to me sometimes, and this goes to all technology in all facets of things, but specifically with AI right now is what we’re talking about. It’s interesting to me how like it’s only been really like a good solid 20, 30 years. Since we’ve probably closer to 30, I guess we’re in 2025. It keeps getting closer. A year passes every year. So good solid 30 years since we’ve really been using the internet to its capabilities, right?

To browse websites, to do e-commerce, to learn things, to do social media, to do whatever. And like people don’t realize that websites suck, like they do.

Like the reason that you agonize so much over the design of your website and the navigation and have it always be at the top, and you can’t hide it under a hamburger menu on desktop, and you can’t put your logo here because that might look bad or it might confuse. It’s all about not confusing the customer.

They’re used to seeing the menu up there, so you have to do it that way. They’re used to seeing a header image and being, having another attention grab, so you gotta do it that way. And so all of this stuff has been designed, or and I hate to use the word dumbed down, but it has been dumbed down for the general consumer.

Not that they need it dumbed down, but that every website is different. You have to make sure the CTAs are in the right place, that their eyes are going to the right place, and all that’s about to change. Eventually it will go to APIs, Kurtis, but all that’s gonna be changed and human beings are going to be better for it.

We’re gonna find more information, we’re gonna discover more things, we’re gonna have easier booking experiences, and it’s just gonna be the way the internet works. And everybody thinks it’s impossible because that’s all they’ve ever known. But they forget that 25 years ago, Jeff Bezo was in a garage packing books. This stuff moves fast. 

Mychele Bisson: Sorry I was gonna say that, I use AI in a different capacity where it’s not for my campgrounds at this moment, but I use it more for my investor side. So I’m actually a partner in a prop AI business that we can actually use it and it will cold call and make warm leads for people to sell us properties.

And what it does is it actually talks to you, we call her Jen, but you would think that it’s me on the phone. And it answers in real time. And it’s literally an AI that’s almost created to be with it, has the investor information, but it calls you, has a whole conversation with you, and it can make 3000 calls in a second.

And so it’s just, it’s the way that things are moving. And so when I’m using it on that side of my life, we also, I’ve been demoing this one AI system called Manus that does what? That was just talking about where you put in the information and say, I wanna go on a trip to London, stay in the Ritz Carlton.

I need extra pillows on the bed. I need a chauffeur car at the hotel. I need the guy’s name to be Greg. You can tell it whatever you want and it will book the entire thing for you. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. Let’s be clear. Manis is the Chinese company. I’ve had a subscription to that for a long time. Manis is far more advanced than Open AI’s agent is right now.

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. So it’s just, it’s been a definitely it’s been an experience to understand how that all works and to see where everything is moving to, because that’s what we’re doing. And I can see, like when we’re on Facebook and I see the people in the, mom and pop Campground owners, they’re like I know it was an AI that called me and I just hung up the phone and it’s this is where we’re moving.

And you have to start, I’m not saying that you have to jump on board right away, but you’re gonna have to start embracing these things just as we did the internet way back when and we don’t take the phone calls as much anymore. Or like it’s bridging that.

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: Before you, lemme just say it’s been an hour, so I just wanna say if anybody has a hard stop and they need to go, please.

Just we appreciate you having here. Please feel free to drop off. You don’t have to hang out with us, but we’re just gonna keep going until the conversation kind of wraps up.

Kieron Wilde: I have a couple minutes left. 

Kurtis Wilkins: I have a couple minutes too. But Mychele, I wanted to say the flip side of the outbound call side is actually the inbound call side, right?

So like everybody that is, or like that is getting those calls, they’re gonna be all screened by an agent. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. 

Kieron Wilde: I love that idea. And so we get a lot of calls, I know right into converted, and it’s such a waste of time.

Kurtis Wilkins: So I always go back and I think about okay, what do I want is what would make my life easier?

And so I was down, we all run very large businesses, right? And so on the 4th of July, that’s our Super Bowl, but that’s also when our families want to take a vacation as well. And so here we are trying to go on a family trip, enjoy family time, and we’re taking business calls the whole time.

We’ve got problems. We’re dealing with things. We gotta make changes on our website. And the whole time I was sitting there thinking an AI that could field some of these calls that has a lot of these policy manuals that has these procedures, right? It’s gonna take over those responsibilities immediately.

And I just sat there. I was drinking a water and I was thinking that. 

Brian Searl: Oh, it’s easy to do. I clone my voice to a company called 11 Laps. And I was messing with my buddy the other day. He’s like a deep philosophical Catholic Christian Guy. Like it goes back into the deep history of the religion or whatever else.

And I don’t like, like I’m not religious, but I don’t like really talking to him about that stuff. One ’cause I feel stupid, but two, because it just bores me. And so I built like a clone of myself and deployed it and I was like, just call this number and you can talk to him. And he was like really into the whole like, history of Catholic Catholicism and I gave him a rule and whatever he was talking to for an hour.

It was in my voice though but like Mychele to your point, like they are gonna have to adopt it. It is here. Google just announced a feature, I think last week or the week before, where they’re gonna start putting a button in search results where you can call the check prices and it’s not for travel or hospitality yet.

Like I think it’s for a couple verticals like plumbing and, I dunno, locksmith and a few other places. But this is gonna quickly expand to where you can just click a button. The AI will then start a call using Gemini. It will call and talk to the business and report back to you. And if you don’t think this is gonna increase your phone calls at your property, you better believe it’s.

And they’re gonna be, just like Kieron said, they’re gonna be closer to the top of the funnel. They’re not gonna be closer to the conversion. So you’re gonna have to then decide, Kurtis, I know you’re in a call center, right? You’re gonna have to decide, do I want more bodies in that call center for lower conversions, or do I wanna put agents there? 

Kurtis Wilkins: Or do I want to expose an API to the Google Hospitality sector.

Brian Searl: Eventually, yeah. Google’s not there yet. And so for 

sure. 

Kurtis Wilkins: And what the hotels are doing, and I think like that exposing those APIs in our sector will get that. And I totally agree with you though, Brian. Like there’s going to be millions of more phone calls that are happening, but have you guys seen like the way AI talk to each other?

Brian Searl: Oh yeah. I believe my AI talk to each other. It’s pretty fun. I’m sure. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. A whole different.

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah. It’s an experience. If you haven’t seen it on this, if you listen to this podcast, go look it up. 

Mychele Bisson: It’s actually like me at the beginning with the gurgle. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah.

Brian Searl: It wasn’t my AI it was just transitioning ’cause I was late for the show.

Mychele Bisson: I think it’s an interesting thing though. We’re in this weird pocket where it’s like we’ve got to adapt to that, but we’ve also got to be able to manage the ones who aren’t used to that. And so we’ve go back and forth between both of them. So we’ve gotta have the people who are still in the office that are gonna answer the phone and then we’ve gotta be able to handle this AI stuff.

But I think that AI, Brian and I were actually just talking about this with one of my operations directors a couple of days ago when we did a call about this, is having the ability to have the stuff taken off of your plate in your campgrounds to be able to free up your people to do things that are more customer service oriented.

It’s a wonderful place to be because we’re never gonna have campgrounds that are fully AI or robotic or whatever. And we may, but I just don’t think we’re gonna take that human element out of it too much because that’s what the joy of campgrounds is, right? Is the human experience. But to take all of that stuff off of the plate of our people who are at the front desk or on the grounds and be able to like, make that easier on them so that they can go curate those experiences for those people is gonna be so amazing for them. It’ll just be.

Brian Searl: Yeah, the human experience is interesting to me. We’re gonna talk about that in Outwired when we do the 2025 to 2075 thing. ’cause part of the research I did in the prompts with the agents that I had go out and look at this stuff for me is like the human experience is important to Camping, right?

Mychele Bisson: And so I think, so.

Brian Searl: I agree with you, right? But what does that human experience mean? It is an interesting question because the human experience is, I would say, arguably more important from the guest perspective than it is from a staff perspective. So if a guest can still have a human experience, whatever that is defined as, whether it includes a human or doesn’t include a human, who knows, right? None of us can predict more than two, three years out right now. Then that’s interesting. Like I don’t know what that looks like or what that. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Brian, when you said project two to three months out.

Brian Searl: Years.

Kurtis Wilkins: The last podcast I was on was four weeks ago, and we talked about, we want to talk about operator and it is obsolete four weeks later. Like it’s moving way faster than like we give it credit. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. No, I think that it just depends on, again, like the campground, like we have a family campground in Virginia that is completely family based and we get probably anywhere from a thousand to 1500 people in there during a busy weekend, which is pretty much almost every weekend it seems, but with that, like we have all these different experiences that are constantly happening. And when I’ve talked to the guests, like one of their favorite things is our managers just coming around when they’ve checked in and just saying, Hey, are you guys good? Do you guys need anything? I’m the manager here, let us know, you can call us whatever. And that’s like that human experience, you can’t take away.

Brian Searl: I’m gonna play devil’s advocate. I’m not gonna say I don’t believe this, what’s gonna come outta my mouth.

Mychele Bisson: Okay. 

Brian Searl: But imagine then a cute little robot that goes around to every site and asks, is there anything I can do for you?

And they’re like, yeah, I’d love an ice cream cone. Okay. And it opens up its head and makes an ice cream cone that’s better than a human. 

Mychele Bisson: I don’t think that experience, I think that experience will happen. I don’t think it’ll fly in every campground. Does that make sense?

Brian Searl: No. Oh no. And again, I’m not saying I believe this. 

Mychele Bisson: But I do think that there are gonna be places where people go for just that experience.

Brian Searl: Yeah. Like the Tesla Diner that just opened up. 

Mychele Bisson: Yes. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: For sure. Yeah. And again, I’m just playing devil’s advocate. I agree with you. I think there has to be some kind of human experience from our side, from the owner’s side that’s still involved. And that’s probably the one thing that I think would probably survive longer than anything else, is the person walking around and just being sociable.

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. But I also think that everything goes in phases. Like everything throughout life. As you’re going through, you realize that, okay, this is really cool and it’s innovative and everybody’s on board with it. And then a couple years later everybody’s don’t you just miss it when somebody would come up and just have a conversation with you? It’s just these different things, right?

Brian Searl: Sure. 

Mychele Bisson: You go through life and you’re like, oh, it’s so cool that we can do these things like big rigs. So you started off with these tiny little camper vans and they start getting bigger as they go. And now all of a sudden I’m starting to see people go back down.

And it’s just the rotation of life. We just constantly expand. We jump on board with the new thing and then that becomes normal. And then we’re like, wouldn’t it be nostalgic to go back to this?

Brian Searl: Yeah, it’s gonna be interesting to see how the future plays out, for sure.

I usually pride myself on like seeing early trends and figuring out where things are going and what’s the next step and coming social network and what’s the next technology. I can’t see more than two years in advance. I don’t have any clue what’s gonna happen. We didn’t get to it today, but I had it pulled up on my screen, but like Donald Trump has this AI action plan that he’s talking about today.

He’s gonna talk about it on the All In podcast, I guess live later tonight. So he’s got like an action plan where he is gonna try to, apparently, like the whole big headline was lower regulations on AI companies. Which is, I think good and maybe bad, but it is what it is right. Like we’re not gonna stop the race with China. That’s a whole nother discussion we can get into at another date and time, but. 

Mychele Bisson: I think it depends on which side of the AI you’re on. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah, I totally agree with that statement right there. I don’t think anyone here wears tinfoil hats and is thinking Skynet, but at the same time, we should put in strong regulation against Skynet. 

Brian Searl: We should, but that’s and again, like I don’t wanna go down a rabbit hole. I know we’re already over a few minutes. But that’s the problem is that existential race between the US and China. If we decide to regulate it, China doesn’t regulate it.

Like you’re gonna get to the point where you get to, and this sounds crazy, I’ve said it before, I think publicly, and people look at me like I do have a tinfoil hat on. You’re gonna get to the point where China develops a super intelligence first. Or we develop a super intelligence first, and then the US is, do I really want China to be able to get a super intelligence too? I’ll just turn off their power.

And that’s what’s gonna happen. That’s what’s in danger of happening. Or the general on the Chinese side will give the missiles control to the AI which is your Skynet scenario. And then then like the US is we’re a little bit smarter.

We don’t wanna give control of our missiles, but you’re not gonna be able to defend against an AI that controls the missiles, so then you’re gonna have to do it too. And then.

Mychele Bisson: Yeah, no, I always have that like whole situation play. Oh, I come from a military family, so there’s always.

Brian Searl: Yeah, you don’t have to worry about Skynet. Like it’s the same thing as us and ants, right? We don’t like ants in our house, but we don’t get so angry at ants that we go and try to kill every ant in the entire world. We’re gonna be like, and this is tinfoil head again, right? You wait and see how well this ages we’re gonna be insignificant to AI.

It will not matter, the pollution that we try to put in the oceans, it will just clean up in 10 seconds with technology that it’s invented. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah.

Mychele Bisson: And that is the truth. It’s where we’re going and it’s just we keep moving faster and as it’s developing, it starts to move even faster because then it starts just helping the development and we’re just consistently going, and that’s.

Brian Searl: That’s what Zuckerberg, sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. You were just No, you’re fine. Go ahead. Please finish. 

Mychele Bisson: Oh, I was gonna say, so we’re either the leaders in it or we’re falling behind, and you never wanna be the ones who are falling behind because then you can’t control it. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. All you have to do is look at this, look at Zuckerberg giving a hundred million dollar paychecks to people to steal them from Gemini and OpenAI.

Buying scale AI or well buying a stake in it, whatever, really bought it for $16 billion, I think, or something like that. All these companies are signing contracts for powers and data centers in the tens and the hundreds of billions of dollars. Google and Meta, and I don’t know what Apple’s doing.

God rest, if you’re invested in their stock, you should sell it now. But all you have to do is look at the numbers that are being spent. This is not a guess. These companies know exactly what they’re doing. They’re wagering the entire future of their companies on this technology, and it’s moving very fast. And they’re beholden to quarterly reports and they’re doing this. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah, that’s the thing is that it’s just, like I just went through this whole thing where I was talking to Chat GPT, and I was like, because at the end of the day Google and all those things, it’s great, but you’re gonna have to be able to pop up in your chat like, what’s the best campground in this area? It needs to pop up in chat. We’ve gotta start focusing on like getting those, and you’re either ahead of the game or you’re behind it. And so I’m starting to figure out okay, how do I pop up in chat? How do I get recognized as this in chat? How does.

Brian Searl: I have an answer for you. You can just call me, Mychele.

Mychele Bisson: I know we had that conversation, so now we’re like working on the backend stuff, going, okay, what do we need to put where? So but that’s the thing is that’s what you have to do. And now that we’re moving into this new age, a lot of people are behind the ball already on it. I’m behind the ball on it.

Brian Searl: I’m behind the ball on it. Like it’s literally how fast it’s moving. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: Everybody looks at me like I’m 10 years ahead of them. Like I probably am, but I’m still like 20 years behind where I need to be. 

Mychele Bisson: You’re 10 years ahead of me, but, so that leaves me like 50 years behind everybody else or where I need to be.

But it’s a learning process and, at least we’re starting to jump on board. That’s where I find it so hard with some of the mom and pops who are like, we’re not booking. And I’m like, it’s ’cause you’re not doing the right things and you’re not putting the right websites in place and you’re not making sure that you’re showing up in these chat situations and you’re not putting yourself out there and you’re not, as crazy as it sounds, on social media.

Kurtis Wilkins: One of the things that I find so hard about the advancement and like how fast things are moving is so again, Brian, like we talked four weeks ago about operator. Well, three months ago we started building our new website, right? Where it’s gonna be more focused on AI, and ranking and AI and like how do we structure our data sets and give it the social proof.

And how do I position myself to show up in every chat every time somebody is looking for one of the best campgrounds and our areas. And operator is obsolete four weeks later. And so we were building towards that. And we’re like, okay, so now we’re building toward, and a lot of what we did.

The foundation still sounds good, but it’s, that’s obsolete. And so that’s it’s hard to stay up on it, so Brian.

Brian Searl: That was the struggle with us, right? Like for our marketing clients, like I spent a year and a half coming together with a plan and I had to wait to see what Google did at their IO in May, but we had to come up with a plan that was balancing, like somebody talked about the human side of this thing, right?

Like the humans are still browsing the websites right now. They are. And so you still need to balance the look and the feel for them and optimize the conversion path to them so that they’re making a booking, but also you need to do the thing for robots. And it took us a long time, but we came up with we have master SEO plans.

We’re giving our clients now that say here’s what you need to build, here’s what we’re gonna build, here’s the pages, here’s the content, here’s the text. We know exactly what it is. Like this is it. Like just approve it and we’re gonna give it to our devs and we’re gonna go to town. But that took a long time to come up with, and there was a lot of trade-offs that I wanted to do from an AI side that I can’t do yet just to create that perfect balance where we are now.

But yeah, like I’m confident that’ll hold up for probably six or 12 months max. And then like it’ll still be a good foundation. Like it’ll be a foundation at that point, right? Like you’re talking about Kurtis. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah. I don’t know if you’re a firm believer in 2027, but that’s what the math says. It’s so sometime in August, 2027, that’s when AI crosses over and it’s now smarter than us.

Brian Searl: It’s already smarter than me. So

Mychele Bisson: I was gonna say, I feel like it’s smarter than me.

Kurtis Wilkins: I know.

Mychele Bisson: Last time I plug things in there.

Kurtis Wilkins: Sorry, lemme rephrase that.

Mychele Bisson: How do I do this? And it’s pops up with this formula and I’m like, cool. Okay, we’re good.

Kurtis Wilkins: It’s smarter than the smarter human in.

Brian Searl: All combined right? Is what you’re talking about. That’s like the, yeah.

Kurtis Wilkins: All combined. And so really interesting to me. And so that’s supposed to happen mathematically sometime August, 2027.

Brian Searl: It wouldn’t surprise me if it happens before then. Like whether we know about it before then, we might not. But it’s, yeah it’s coming really fast and I don’t know what this world’s gonna look like, but I know that you better pay attention to it. It’s not optional anymore.

Mychele Bisson: And I think that plays into all kinds of things. It’s just, like where are jobs gonna be? Where are people gonna be working? Like how is this all gonna come together? It’s just, there’s so many up in the air questions. Just from a broad perspective, not just from a campground perspective, but it’s just.

Brian Searl: Oh, yeah. It’s everything. Nobody understand, nobody knows. I think 95% of jobs are going away. 

Mychele Bisson: I think so too.

Brian Searl: Yeah. There’s my tinfoil hat. But nobody wants to talk about this. Nobody in government is talking about this. Nobody’s talking about this. There are people in my circles in the AI world who are talking about this, but nobody wants to say it publicly because it scares people and it gets people nervous. We have to talk about this or otherwise it’s gonna be even worse. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Everybody’s just gonna go on vacation, Brian, they’re all gonna.

Brian Searl: Eventually they will. But that’s a good thing. But we have to get over this. It’s gonna be five to 10 years. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: It’s gonna be five to 10 years of really painful, like the wealth gap is gonna grow even bigger. That’s what I’m afraid of.

Mychele Bisson: I hundred percent agree with that. It’s gonna get wider and it’s definitely something that as I’m watching everything, like even the other day I saw a robot that does massages and apparently it does it better than humans. Like you can program it completely to do everything and it’s all run off of I don’t know, but it’s just, it was amazing.

And I was like there you go. There’s another job that’s gonna go. It’s just, it’s crazy how much all of this is changing and how fast. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. You’re not even talking about humanoid robots, which we talked about on this show and Outwired before that are coming probably in less than two years.

Yeah. You wait till you see what the prediction we have on Outwired is if you guys have a chance to watch it, but like the humanoid robots, in less than three years, you’ll be able to, the only bottleneck will be manufacturing.

You’ll be able to buy one for less than I don’t know, ,75 cents an hour to work around your campground and do everything you want.

Mychele Bisson: Yeah.

Brian Searl: And it’ll be able to mow the lawn. It’ll be able to clean up the mini of golf course. You’ll be able to clean the swimming pool to be able to do everything. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. And when they start looking more like humans, it makes it even more of a human experience. You guys see all those crazy movies.

Haven’t you guys seen those movies where they like have the AIs that, or the robots that look just like humans? 

Brian Searl: That’s what I mean when you talk about the human experience, right? And I won’t take credit for this. I first heard Gary Vaynerchuk utter it, but I fully believe it.

Like anybody who’s alive right now who’s under let’s say 40, their grandchildren will have people who are married to humanoid robots. They will. 

Mychele Bisson: Oh, weird. 

Brian Searl: I know, but it will happen. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. And I can see that happening. It’s such a weird, like when do we start completely like moving away from just having, when you’re just at a point of, is that person a human or is that a robot?

Brian Searl: That’s the whole argument, right? So it’s really interesting. You should go look it up. There’s a woman, you probably know her, I wanna say her name is Corey or Cody she’s a real estate lady on YouTube.

Mychele Bisson: Cody Sanchez. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, Cody Sanchez. So she sat down with Gary Vaynerchuk and they talked about this stuff, and they were talking about what, where’s the line of cross? And I’m not saying I believe this, I’m just telling you what the conversation was like. I do believe the grandkid thing, but I’m not saying I believe all the other stuff.

But they were talking about where’s that line where you become not a human versus a robot? Because there’s already all the boob jobs and the lip jobs and the right, the Botox and like all the things you’re putting in your body already. So what’s the point, are you already not human? Where’s the line? 

Mychele Bisson: It’s that Stepford Wise movie from what was it, the nineties or the early two thousands or something where like Nicole Kidman was in it and they had a little button and you could literally change her physically however you wanted her.

Brian Searl: Yeah. That’s. 

Mychele Bisson: She’d go make you a sandwich or she’d go to the grocery store and buy you potato chips, or. 

Brian Searl: I think that makes society worse when that happens for the reasons that we stop respecting certain categories of people. So I don’t know that I want that, but it’s absolutely gonna happen. 

Mychele Bisson: Yeah. It’s a scary thought to get into all of the tin hat situations that you just, this whole thing can spiral down into. But I do think yeah. Going back to all of it, it’s just, it’s crazy how fast everything is evolving and how much we have to adapt and just the resistance against it from so many people. And I just don’t think they realize how much that’s gonna hurt their own businesses by resisting so much.

Brian Searl: Yeah. Imagine not answering the call from Google. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah. Did you guys watch the, so Tesla released their autonomous cab. 

Brian Searl: Oh, the Robaxin 

Kurtis Wilkins: Optimist, which is a robot forum, was the catering company and the bartenders for the release.

Brian Searl: Oh, yes. Except they were human controlled during the Yeah, that control year ago. You’re talking about when you announced it was almost a year ago. 

Kurtis Wilkins: No. This happened three weeks ago.

Brian Searl: Oh, maybe I missed it then. I don’t know. I remember like when he first announced the robot taxi, they had robots. They were catering. 

Kurtis Wilkins: No. They’re releasing robot taxi in response to.

Brian Searl: I dunno about that.

Kurtis Wilkins: And so I’m like, those robots, but the robots stole a show on that release. And so like that comment.

Brian Searl: They 15,000 dollars humanoid robot you can buy from China right now. And there’s videos on YouTube of people having to wash their car.

It’s here guys. I’m sorry that I’m the bear of maybe bad or good news to the people who are watching, but this is not coming. This is here. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Yeah. And all I wanna know is how I can get one.

Mychele Bisson: I’m not against somebody giving me a chef that’s programmed with all of the Michelin rated recipes in it that I could just walk home and say, Hey, I want this. And it whips it up. I totally get.

Brian Searl: That’s the thing. If you talk about the 40 year olds or anybody who’s under 20, anybody who has a kid who is in elementary school still, they will never know a world ever where they grow up and aren’t able to have Michelin recipes on demand, a robot chef in their kitchen, AI with them everywhere they go.

I’ve had these conversations to the terrible like detriment of my girlfriend who probably wants me to shut up a lot of the times.

Mychele Bisson: But Brian’s like in his element right now. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Kurtis Wilkins: Oh, my wife has told me that we can’t talk about AI at the house. So 

Brian Searl: I wondered, you’re gonna see survival of restaurants like for sure. ‘Cause there’s the same human element. People are gonna wanna go out and socialize, but I think there’s a whole lot less physical restaurants. But does that mean then that you can license a recipe from the Great steak shop in Portland that you want to just download to your robot and have for one meal and pay them a fee? I bet there is, there’s a business there. 

Mychele Bisson: But think about the amazingness of how that would work out though, is you can go to your little hometown restaurant and have an experience from a French chef in France for this one recipe that he has specialized and everybody knows about around the world. That would be amazing. And they would still get paid on it.

Kurtis Wilkins: Yes. And it would be more of a social experiment as well. ‘Cause the reason you go to the restaurant now is to see other humans. That’s the reason why you’re going Camping is you’re going Camping to have a unique human experience.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Mychele Bisson: In that though.

Brian Searl: Happens when the robots.

Kurtis Wilkins: Hopefully not very many people work.

Mychele Bisson: A safe place to have human interaction and all of that. 

Brian Searl: What happens when the robots wanna go Camping though? Are you gonna ban them? Not you guys, but are you gonna ban them like car Camping?

I don’t want robots. We only take humans. What if they’ve got a credit card and they’re in society and they want to pay you money? 

Mychele Bisson: I don’t know. There’s a lot of credit. 

Kurtis Wilkins: That’s an interesting question, Brian. Oh, you’re putting me on the spot. I haven’t even thought about that.

Brian Searl: Anyway, we should probably go. 

Kurtis Wilkins: All right. I actually have a hard stop here in five.

Brian Searl: You had a hard topic 20 minutes ago, man. Nobody believes me anymore. 

Kurtis Wilkins: I bumped it. They said they were okay. I was really enjoying the AI conversation.

Brian Searl: Alright any final thoughts, Mychele or Kurtis? 

Mychele Bisson: No, this was all great. Like we’re gonna have to continue this conversation on the next one.

Kurtis Wilkins: It’ll probably obsolete by the time we get to the next one. Mychele. I’m only able to four.

Mychele Bisson: No, honestly, that’s probably true because by that time we’re gonna be talking about, Hey, did you guys see this new robot in a campground? 

Brian Searl: GPT five might be out by that time, so it’s supposed to come out in the next few weeks, is a rumor. So we’ll see. 

Mychele Bisson: All right. 

Brian Searl: And they already have a model that beat the Math Olympiad, Google and Chat GPT do. That’s not gonna release supposedly for a couple months. So anyway. All right. Tell us where we can learn more about Bison Peak Ventures. 

Mychele Bisson: You can actually follow me on Instagram @MycheleBisson which I always talk about how we’re, innovating and changing our campgrounds and tips on how to buy campgrounds with no money down. And then you can also do it at rvresortinvestment.com. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. And Kurtis, Rjourney, 

Kurtis Wilkins: You can find Rjourney at rjourney.com, as well as our management division which is advancedoutdoormanagement.com. Feel free to reach out to us. We also have our socials as well, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook.

Brian Searl: Thank you guys so much for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. If you’re not sick of hearing it from me, I will be in 34 minutes hosting another two hour show Outwired with Greg Emmert and Scott Bahr. We’re gonna tie into the future of campgrounds and all that kinda stuff.

If not, we’ll see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Take care guys. We’ll see you. 

Mychele Bisson: Bye guys.

Kurtis Wilkins: Alright. See you