MC Fireside Chats – July 16th, 2025

Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name’s Brian Searl with Insider Perks in a remote location with all kinds of fancy tech issues happening to us today. Hopefully the intro played okay for you guys. It’s stuttery over here. I’m in the middle of the kind of wilderness, as you guys can see behind me here but wouldn’t trade the view for non-tech issues.

So excited to be here for another show. Welcoming a couple of a recurring guest back Mike Harrison from CRR Hospitality. Good to see you, Mike. Sandy Ellingson. I still don’t know where you’re from, Sandy. You just do so many different things and you consult and like you had a company called your name and then you didn’t, and then I don’t know what’s happening, but Sandy, Wizard of whatever she does that she’ll tell us or she does in a minute.

And then Robert Preston a new recurring guest fresh from Unhitched RV. Welcome Robert as well. There look like my gimbal just went sideways and crazy. I think it looks, maybe, it thinks that look better this way. Anyway, we wanna go around the room while I try to fix my gimbal and we’ll just talk to everybody else and have ’em introduce themselves real quick. Briefly, guys and ladies and Britt’s here too. Sorry. Britt’s like way down off my phone. Camera. I’m sorry, Britt. I didn’t mean to forget you. 

Mike Harrison: I’ll start. Mike Harrison Chief Operating Officer of CRR Hospitality. We own and manage, and third party, manage RV and glamping resorts, as well as consulting.

And clearly I’m not where you are, although I’ll be in Vancouver in about three weeks. I guess that’s not really close, but I’ll be in Canada. How’s that? 

Brian Searl: It’s closer than Calgary. It’s probably eight. How far is Vancouver from here, Christa? How far is Vancouver from here? We’re doing a live show, we need to know. Four or five hour drive according to the experts lived in Canada. Hold on. Anyway. Not that far. Whatcha are you gonna Vancouver for?

Mike Harrison: We’re going on a cruise to Alaska.

Brian Searl: Oh, nice. And my gimbal’s not gonna cooperate again today. It beeps at me and it’s I’m angry, I’m too hot, or I’m just not gonna tell you what it is. So we’ll figure this out in a second, but who’s next after Mike?

Robert Preston: Go ahead ladies. 

Sandy Ellingson: Britt, you go ahead. Not hearing her. So I’ll go ahead. I’m Sandy Ellingson. My primary role is serving as a liaison between the RV industry and campgrounds. My prior experience was as a consultant primarily with technology and strategy. And so I just love helping my campgrounds. I’m in semi-retirement and so I get to pick and choose who I wanna work with and I play the rest of the time.

Brian Searl: Nice. Good job to have, right? Being able to pick and choose.

Robert Preston: That’s better. Good afternoon. My name is Robert Preston. Founder, CEO of Unhitched RV and Management. We own, operate and develop RV parks primarily in Southeast and also do third party management and consulting. Thanks for having us on, Brian. 

Brian Searl: Maybe I’ll get to talk to you.

Robert Preston: There we go.

Brian Searl: You’re welcome. Maybe. Great.

Robert Preston: Sounds great.

Brian Searl: We’ll find out how long. Sandy did you introduce yourself? You did? No?

Sandy Ellingson: I did.

Brian Searl: Okay. And then Britt, we’re waiting on Britt. Sorry. Britt’s, I believe in the waiting room. I keep planning her in. She’s switching between her phone and her desktop. So I’ll let both Britts in here and see which Britt wants to talk. We have one of the Britts? We don’t have any of the Britts.

We will figure out Britt in a minute. Like you guys. Can you guys see both Britt feeds or is that just me? No, zero. That both Zero Britts. Okay.

Robert Preston: Zero Britts are present

Brian Searl: Interesting. It’s showing her on my screen anyway, so Britt will be here soon. And we’ll figure that out. Sorry Britt, for the technical difficulties.

But where do we wanna start today, guys? Normally I go around and say to our recurring guests, is there anything that’s come across your guest in the last month since we’ve been together in the show that you feel is important to bring up? I know we’ve been through the July 4th holiday weekend and we’ve got a good picture now that the kids are outta school of what’s gonna happen because this and that business.

We got a lot of people here who own a lot of parks or work with a lot of parks and Roberts, Mike, Sandy, Angele, that will be on us shortly. Is there anything that you guys think we should be talking about? First off.

Mike Harrison: Yep. And so, what’s new and what do we think is gonna change the industry? This week we are launching Rigsby Live or soon to be Campy Live. But voice reservations via our AI agent Rigsby are going to be live this week.

And we think it’s gonna change the industry forever. In partnership with Insider Perks, of course, you help really, develop the entire thing. You’ll never get a busy signal, you’ll never get a no answer. You can make a reservation at 1:00 AM and we think it will revolutionize the entire process.

We’re not even sure that any hotel company is really doing this yet it’ll be something that’s interesting. Obviously we’ve had the chat bot now for three years or so. Then we evolve to, Rigsby voice and then AI chat with reservations, and now Rigsby with reservations and, both Insider Perks and Camps Spot have been, excellent partners in this.

And we’re pretty excited to see how it goes. We expect there’ll be a couple of hiccups the first week or two. But that’s part of launching something new. Being on that first curve of the diffusion of innovation you’re always gonna have some of those trials, but we’re pretty excited for that, Brian. 

Brian Searl: You guys know I don’t like talking about myself and I don’t send mic checks before the show. Can we have the other guest blessing to briefly talk about this? ’cause I do think it’s important to discuss a little bit about AI. Is that okay with you guys? Sandy and Robert? I’m not gonna be self-promotional, right?

But it is AI overall is a conversation that we should probably have and have had a little bit, right? Like what Mike’s talking about is we’ve developed an AI that can answer all your phone calls at your park for 24/7. We’ve had that out for actually a year, but now it’s going to actually be able to take the full reservation to check availabilities, to give site types, to send payment links, to do everything through Camp Spot in the beginning initially.

And then after that we’re going to expand it to the other reservation providers that an order of demand. And so we believe it’s 95% where it needs to be to replace the phone rep right now, standard phone rep or maybe a call center, I guess is a better word to do that. But we think like certainly as the technology continues to improve. Nobody wants to replace workers, but the technology is what it is, whether we’re playing in it or not playing in it.

So I think it’s interesting where the future goes operationally and things like that. So Sandy, I know you’ve done some work with consulting on some AI stuff with some of your parks, but Robert’s new, so Robert, do you have anything you’re doing with AI at your properties? 

Robert Preston: I wouldn’t say that we’re necessarily doing other properties. We use it a lot on the backend in regards to deep dive into rates or comps or occupancies and stuff pulling that and using ai. To aggregate a lot of data particularly on the acquisition side of the house and setting rates and whatnot. And then we use it a little bit in regards to power consumption and utility metering. But we haven’t really utilized it a lot from a guest forward perspective. It’s more backend perspective. 

Brian Searl: Okay. It’s been with us for two and a half years that you feel like have been the most beneficial to Unhitched RV that you’ve learned as you’ve progressed with AI?

Robert Preston: We’re not using the chat bot, right?

Brian Searl: No. Like from operationally, from the things you’re talking about that you’re using.

Robert Preston: Yeah. So operationally, in general, there’s a huge deficit of knowledge. There’s a huge deficit of institutionalized data to pull from.

Whereas in multifamily industry or any other industries, you would have tons and tons a wealth of data, CoStar, so on and so forth to pull into, down to the scent level of what your price per square foot should be. So really what AI has helped us do right now is just to pull that data quickly, faster, and at a higher frequency.

We still think that we have to be the primary I don’t think AI for our industry right now has the ability to consume it and then give us valuable, specific output. So we still have to take that data and then interpret it, I guess I would say, whereas most other investment industries, 20 years ago, they had the data and the interpretation. We’re just now getting the ability to really gather it at a rate that’s usable. 

Brian Searl: What do you think about that, Mike? ’cause I know you use a lot of analyticals from camps Spot and other places. 

Mike Harrison: What do I think about?

Brian Searl: The data that he’s talking about that might be missing in our industry? That’s what you’re talking about Robert?

Robert Preston: Yeah. Just the lack of centralized data. 

Mike Harrison: Yeah. And how AI plays into it or just the general data comment? 

Brian Searl: How you, because the data is missing, AI can’t do the, I think I’m understanding Robert, the comprehensive analysis that we can do in other industries, like financial hotels that have more of that data available to us.

Robert Preston: Yeah, to some extent. I think the AI part of it is catching up quickly in that, it now can search everyone’s websites and find the rates for today and so on and so forth. So we’re probably getting really close, but in the past it was, there was no centralized place that, or anyone that was putting the effort into aggregating the data at a national level. 

Sandy Ellingson: And it’s not just that the data’s missing, it’s that the data is dirty.

Robert Preston: Correct.

Sandy Ellingson: ‘Cause if you’re looking for an RV park and AI is looking for an RV park, it doesn’t know the difference between a transient park and a long term stay park and, a 55+ park. And when you merge all those numbers together, all you get is diluted data.

Robert Preston: And frankly, I think the industry still doesn’t know what’s a Campground, what’s a park, what’s a resort. The names are thrown around it just so it’s, bad data embedded out. 

Mike Harrison: Yeah. And you may have seen,

Sandy Ellingson: I’ve been working on my project for four years. Come join me on my bandwagon, okay? 

Robert Preston: Yeah, there you go.

Mike Harrison: You may have seen that OHI announced, that they’re basically, one of their missions right now is to normalize and aggregate the data. They’re working with both Sage Outdoor and a couple other partners to exactly describe what you do, what you just described, which is, categorize.

Robert Preston: Right.

Mike Harrison: Some of the campgrounds, large, upscale, glamping, et cetera. And one of the main reasons is also so that, we can get the tax code change for the REITs so that they can invest in the space as well. So clearly that has been, to your point, something that has been on the what’s been missing from the industry.

But it’s not gonna take two months, or three months or six months. This will be, 12, 18 month process. But we needed the National Association. We needed a champion, so to speak, to help lead it. And, the National Association has taken that under their wing, along with a couple of the other partners to help, get that done.

So when that happens, I think there’ll at least be a common semantic, so that you can somewhat categorize properties. It won’t be perfect. There are so many. Yeah, but the hotel business at least is, a little bit cleaner. But if you think of the star report from 25 years ago, there was like one category and then there was two, and then there was four, and now there’s, you can get upscale, midscale, luxury, et cetera.

As they’ve expanded the branding and types of properties. And I think, this will start out with, four or five or six categories. And then we’ll evolve as they, they tweak it. But, I think we gotta get the first iteration done first to see what it looks like.

And once that happens, I think there’ll be considerably more data from an investment and a analytical, reflection side. That will be helpful. 

Brian Searl: Okay, so I finally figured out what’s going on here with all the cameras and the sources. So we have, Britt is on here but I started, apparently I started this stream in like vertical mode and I can only show like certain number of sources. So Britt’s there, can we hear you Britt? 

Britt Roth: Yeah, can you hear me? 

Brian Searl: Yep. See we can hear right now, but Angele is hidden and so is James. So we’re gonna have to just flip these people back and forth ’cause it will only let me put five people on camera and it won’t let me change it to the stream mode.

So everybody watching on Facebook is like, why are they in mobile vertical orientation right now? But that’s why, just ’cause I didn’t click the right button before we started. ’cause I’m not used to being outside confines in my studio. They don’t let me out much. You guys tell right? 

Sandy Ellingson: Remove my picture because I have a big enough mouth. People will hear me without it. 

Brian Searl: Yeah? We’ll swap people in and out as we go, right? So like enough about not enough about AI we could talk about AI forever. Everybody knows that who knows me. But is there anything that came across like your desk, Sandy or Robert, that you think is important?

And then we’ll go around I wanna go quickly and introduce Britt and James and Angele here. We’ll get them on to say their introductions. 

Sandy Ellingson: I’ve been looking at some of the takeaways from the 4th of July and talking with a lot of my different park types all across the board. What was interesting was there was no norm.

We had parks that were freaking out because they were going into the 4th of July weekend and they weren’t sold out, and then within the last few days they sold out. And so I think the booking window is dropping again. We also had parks that are seeing increases in their bookings when they’re forcing bookings, like longer days and, but giving them the flexibility of arriving early on Friday morning or leaving late on Sunday.

So parks, there’s a lot of creative things they’re doing to try and increase their bookings and their occupancy. But it’s, parks were still, there were a lot of parks that were just not full for 4th of July. And it was if I was following and doing, using all my listening tools to the campers, they were like, oh my gosh, this was awesome.

‘Cause we didn’t know if we could go to the last minute and there were actually sites and places we could go. So I think the campers are loving that, that they can make these last minute decisions. But the other thing I heard was, which really made me happy, a lot of my parks reporting that they’re getting more and more requests for tent camping sites or for car camping sites, which does not mean homeless people living in their cars. It means, younger. 

Brian Searl: It means your Tesla model Y. I watched a video of that on YouTube where this guy that does road tripping throughout Europe and it folds down. There’s an inflatable mattress and like a pillow and all kind. Yeah. 

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah. We had a guy in one of my parks in the panhandle that his investment on his outdoor camping that was a part of his truck was almost $50,000.

That’s the cost of a travel trailer. So we’re gonna say no to car camping. And he considered himself a car camper because it all came off it, wasn’t the truck bed, so 

Brian Searl: That’s a whole other existential debate. Like maybe we could get into that later after we introduce everybody. But that’s a whole other thing.

‘Cause we’ve talked about this on the show before, right? Like, how do you decide who you deny and don’t deny at your campground? And there’s old adages that I think that have been around for some time that still sometimes makes sense, still sometimes don’t. I’m not an operator. I’m not the one to tell you that, but like the age on the rigs.

Is it 10 years? Is it 15 years? Is there a uniform rule for when something gets rusty and disgusting? I don’t know. Who am I to say? But in an age where the economy is becoming more competitive and not everybody is rushing out to go camping everywhere all the time like they did in 2021, 2022, I think you have to be more thoughtful and strategic, and maybe you just don’t turn away as much business as you otherwise would by default? What do we think about that? 

Sandy Ellingson: I think you’re absolutely right. I think it’s that old story about the roast where, I think I probably told it on the show before, but the husband kept asking the wife why she cut the end of the roast off and the moral to the story was, they went all the way back three generations and the grandmother said, I don’t know why you do it, but I did it because my pan wasn’t big enough.

And it’s so true. We continue to do things in the camping industry like saying we don’t want tent campers because we evolved above it. And now we don’t wanna go back because we don’t understand how tent camping has also evolved. 

Brian Searl: It’s interesting, like we have a guy who was on the show a couple weeks ago, I can’t remember his name.

I can’t remember what I had for breakfast anymore, so don’t be offended if you’re watching. But we invited him to be a recurring guest, and he had a business that we started in. His whole goal was to appeal toward tent campers, but give them the kind of handholding and setup and luxury experience, like not glamping tents.

And he was charging like $400 or $500 a night for ’em and seeing a ton of success. Yeah. 

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: So I think it’s all on how you approach the experience. 

Sandy Ellingson: The biggest thing I think we’ve gotta readdress is what is the entry level into camping? We have a whole new generation whose parents didn’t raise them to camp, and we also have a whole generation who’s still now living at home because of whatever the economics are.

So they’re what I call the gateway drug into camping is missing. There is no way they can get into well RVing more than Camping. That. 

Brian Searl: So that’s the key, right? So, what is the definition of camping? The people in the RV industry will tell you one thing. People tend to tell you something different.

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah. And I’m even telling my industry people that they need to think about some of this stuff that they can do. Think of the products and things as lead-gen tools, right? They’re the gateway drugs. They’re not an RV yet, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t help produce some of those things and do some value, add value to ’em.

Even with, I was meeting with a team from Toyota last week ’cause they’re creating a rig that actually has a camper inside, built into it. It’s gonna be sold by Toyota as a van, not as a an RV. And I said, you need to watch out for these things. They’re gonna be moving into that Class B space without being considered Class Bs, and they’re gonna have more quality control over what they’re putting out.

Brian Searl: All right. Any thoughts on this from Robert or Mike before I just wanna go around the room and just in bringing everybody, introduce ’em real quick. Talk about. We’re gonna just swap people in and out. So 

Robert Preston: I think to that point, the changing in demographic, one of the things that we’re, I don’t know if we’re necessarily seeing yet, but we’re planning towards, is the multi-generational Camping.

So Sandy’s point, there’s a lot of people who still live at home, so they’re adults with their parents. And then the opposite direction is the grandparents now that have disposable income, that want to go camping and do events, and they’re bringing their children and then thus their grandchildren.

And certainly there’s an increase in the demographic of African and American, and Hispanic campers that also tend to camp, more as a larger group. We are looking and playing around with more of a, traditionally we would keep our cabins in a section and RVs in a section right? And keep them.

But we’re playing around and planning on some of our newer developments to have them more next to each other, integrated so that the RV or has their RV site, and then the grandma or whatever, whoever doesn’t have the RV that still wants to go in the family, they can rent the tent or they can rent the cabin or lodging unit that’s directly next door, and that becomes a package unit.

So that’s, I think, somewhat new to our industry that we need to watch and keep an eye on. And then frankly, for us, we launched a brand new property, and we onboarded eight on July 1st before July 4th weekend. We haven’t done a whole lot of external work or paid attention to much with going on the industry over the last couple months.

We’ve been pretty tied up and heads down on that. But I think there’s a big sense of reality that has now come back into the industry from the ownership perspective and the sales and the brokerage perspective. We’re seeing real pricing start to come through, or at least, the offers be considered there.

And then, a real, I think, I don’t know if it’s positive or negative, but a real realization from owners who thought that they were going to sell and then have decided not to that, that they are making decisions to sell or to move over to management, over to a third party, or of course, continue it themselves.

That I think is gonna be a strong wave over the next couple years where owners decide that they have to make a decision, continue to own and operate, or continue to bring a third party management, or continue to sell, but they’re not going to get the cake can eat it anymore. That what’s happening in 

Brian Searl: 22 for the majority of people.

Robert, just asking your opinion, and then I think some of like Mike could certainly weigh in on this to you from a third party management perspective. As you look at the average, let’s call ’em the average campground number, right? The mom and pop has owned it for 20, 30 years or whatever, and it’s deciding what you just talked about.

Do I sell, do I keep, do I run it myself? Do I hire third-party management? As we look at all the macro indicators in both the economy and inflation, and things that are impacting their decisions, both short term and long term, what do you feel is the reason that they would go one way or another? Kinda, I know that’s stereotypical, I know not everybody’s the same answer, but what’s your feeling?

Robert Preston: Yeah, there’s usually just a few things they’re trying to solve for life. Or you could call ’em pain points or you could call ’em opportunities wherever you want to classify it. One, and I think the driver, the lead by far the driver to, for most people’s decision, is time and energy, and talent, right?

And if that is your driver, then there really only is two choices. Third party management or sell the property. Either way, the driving need there is to get back their time and to go live their life of the grandkids or whatever it may be. And if that’s the main driver, then there conversely, it could be you’re looking for scale and you want to go from one or two properties to 10.

You can’t do that unless you either create your own management company or bring in a management company. So that would be opposite of the spectrum of more of a more aggressive approach to the growth side of it. And so that’s the financial aspect then comes down to, can you get the price you could have a couple years ago?

No. And do you wanna give up depreciation, which is significantly, with the new bill that’s PLA passed, or significant change in the depreciation benefits for. Even this cabin that I’m sitting in, right? This now becomes a hundred percent depreciable asset if you wanted it to, because it’s a vehicle, it’s a piece of equipment.

So that, for a generation that’s looking for an exit, weighs in pretty significantly in regards to what they’re gonna do for from tax purposes. 

Brian Searl: That is an interesting conversation that maybe we’ll circle back to, too, the new bill, because I think that has some interesting tax benefits for people that we should explore.

Mike, I’m curious what you think about this. And then the secondary question I have to you is, do you have any thoughts on, I just coming from what I know about your properties, you don’t offer tent camping anywhere, right? Any of your properties. Is there ever anything that you think could, would change your mind on that?

Mike Harrison: Hypothetically 

Brian Searl: or, 

Mike Harrison: Yeah, no. Two separate questions. One is following up on what Robert said, time, energy. I would also add profitability. As a campground owner today understand and realize that perhaps a professional management company could drive more revenue and more profitability. And make them more money. 

I think that’s certainly a deciding factor. We’re talking about mom and pop or PE or family office or whatever. The why not, you also asked the why not, what a campground owner, and we’ve done this exercise. Unfortunately, with many mom and pops, a lot of them are running it themselves, or they have family members running it.

And so now you have to pay our fee, and then you have to pay labor that you maybe weren’t paying before. ‘Cause you might be paying yourself outta your cashflow or, whatnot. And so it becomes a anchor or cost-prohibitive solution, especially for the smaller campgrounds, to really hire a third-party management.

So there’s a conundrum, when that happens and we have a panel at the solution, Summit West exactly. About this, how do you help the smaller campground owners that can’t afford to do a management company, et cetera? So there is no one-size-fits-all. All answer to that question because every situation, every property, every bank loan, every proforma, every market is different than unique.

And you almost have to take each one of them as a case-by-case basis. The second question is, tent camping? Yes. The answer is absolutely yes. We would consider, we’ve played with it. Coachella, we did do tent camping during the festival. And I know, I think you have Sandy off the screen right now, but I know she’s passionate about the campground industry for all right.

And I agree, we don’t want us to say be exclusionary, but our properties that are certainly resorts, you have a particular feel, but they’re also bigger. And we’re not resistant to that. We’re looking at opportunities, especially as the market becomes more competitive, our properties are larger.

Do we have a small section carved out for tent camping? And just because they’re tense doesn’t mean that they’re not affluent or doesn’t mean they’re not gonna contribute, good product to your campground. And we’re not resistant at all. We’re actually looking at it on a regular basis now.

Brian Searl: Yeah. I will tell you when I saw that video and it’s on YouTube, I can’t remember the guy, it’s some Dutch guy I think that travels around when I saw that video of him, like putting his Tesla model I, the new version into camping mode, and it actually will hold the temperature the whole night, the backseats fold down, there’s a com. Tesla actually sells a nice air mattress that blows up inside there.

And he hit that thing looked really comfortable, right? Not a lot of space, not a lot of room. Not saying it replaces RVs, but there’s for sure probably a big audience of people who would take advantage of solutions like that and many other vehicles on top of Jeeps. And Sandy was talking about with the $50,000 add-on to that.

I think an audience that are currently probably almost exclusively going backcountry and maybe a bunch of them stay there, but maybe some of them don’t if they have a different place to go. 

Alright, let’s, it’s been 30 minutes. I wanna rock around the room, so I’m gonna pull a couple people on and off the show here.

We have somebody named Jim’s here, and he’s flopping in and out. He’s not really steady, I don’t wanna bring him on the show yet, but we have Angele and Britt here. Do you guys, I’m so sorry it took me 30 minutes to get to you to introduce you, but Angele has been a regular guest for us on week four.

Normally we’re swapping her to this week ’cause we changed week four to an AI and Marketing type show. But welcome, Angele. How are you? 

Angele Miller: Hi. I am great, thank you. 

Brian Searl: Do you wanna briefly introduce yourself for everybody? 

Angele Miller: Yeah. I’m Angele Miller. For me I’m located on Eastern Canada in the province of New Brunswick.

And I own a glamping resort here. And so I’m in the glamping business. I have geodesic domes, mirror cabins, tree house. I have a lobster fishing boat accommodation. We also integrated a Nordic spa and a yoga meditation center. We’re also constructing now a restaurant with Woodfired cuisine, and we’re also scaling the Nordic Spa experience.

So we’re really big into wellness tourism as well, as much as the glamping. And, yeah. 

Brian Searl: Sorry, I thought you were done. I apologize. Please finish. 

Angele Miller: That’s okay. 

Brian Searl: So, how has your season been so far this year? ’cause we’ve heard a lot about the dynamics of, let’s just call it the changing behaviors of travelers and where they want to go this year.

Angele Miller: Yeah. For us, we haven’t been affected by things; we’re fully booked, all accommodation, everything this summer. But we’ve seen a shift that we’re getting a lot of Europeans in our region, which is very interesting. That’s quite new. So we have a lot of Europeans.

We have a lot of people. We have a lot of people from the States actually, that are there right now, especially from Eastern United States. We get a lot of people from New York, Boston, those kind of region, Maine, yeah. And we have a lot of people from Quebec, Ontario as well. Yeah. So we’re, we’ve been lucky with that.

It hasn’t really affected us that way, but we’re also in a very touristic region, and there’s really a lack of accommodation in this area.

Brian Searl: That’s what I think we’re hearing. I’m in Brittish Columbia right now, obviously I don’t own campground, but that’s what we’re hearing from owners across Canada.

It’s been a, I don’t wanna call it a boon, but really good for people in Canada this year, ’cause people have tended to be staying home and going camping in Canada. So we don’t wanna dive into that conversation. We’ve had that enough in the past. But Britt, how are you? 

Britt Roth: Hi. Great. I’m glad to be on. Thank you. 

Brian Searl: Do you wanna briefly introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your campground? 

Britt Roth: Yeah, I’m Britt Roth, and I’m one of the owners of Dark Sky RV Campground in Kanab, Utah. We are just above the Arizona border, about 30 miles east of Zion National Park. And we have about 28 sites, 18 full hookup sites, and 10 electric only sites that we appeal to people in small rigs.

And we consider ourselves like a boutique campground. We are the mom and pop that you guys are talking about. I own it with my parents and my husband. We live on site and we’re celebrating five years, and we’re just learning the ropes, and this is just such a very cool opportunity to be amongst all of you that are incredibly knowledgeable. I’m learning so much. 

Brian Searl: We’ll everybody here, don’t count me in that group. I’m not knowledgeable. I just talk for a living. Everybody else. Yeah. 

Britt Roth: We focus a little bit on wellness tourism. I’ve never actually heard that term, so that’s really cool that we have yoga classes and sound baths.

And we have goat walks and indoor and outdoor showers that are very spa-like. Our electric-only sites originally, it’s interesting we talked a little bit about the tent camping. We originally opened with tent campers. I grew up tent camping, and so that was definitely a priority of ours.

And it was surprising the clientele that we got just were ruder, messier more demanding, obviously paid the least, use our resources the most, and we just couldn’t figure out how to raise the bar. And so we change those sites into electric-only sites. So you can come in a van.

We have bungalows where guests can get out. They’re like outdoor living rooms. There’s hammocks and lounge chairs, and people who travel in small vehicles really do appreciate it. And they can set up a tent as well in addition. But it’s awesome to have an enclosed vehicle. It just creates a different experience when you’re sitting next to one of these $50,000, $75,000 tent campers that are state of the art.

And someone comes in and, rolls in with a, just a regular tent. It’s, I don’t know, it just doesn’t level the playing field. So we’ve had to up the game there. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. I don’t know what the answer to that is. I think that’s probably a whole conversation we could have on a different show.

Yeah. ‘Cause obviously you’re not wrong. You have the experience to prove that you’re not wrong. But there’s gotta be some way to isolate and pull those people out because the man on our show has clearly done that on a luxury, on the other extreme of the scale.

But I feel like there’s probably people in the middle here that we’re missing as well. But, so talk to us about Dark Sky. How did you get started? What was the premise behind it? What did you wanna accomplish? 

Britt Roth: I mean, I was living in Austin, Texas, and with life changes, I pitched the idea of moving into an RV with my husband.

And we had two small kids. Ready to make a big change. And we traveled the US into Canada and Mexico and was our really first foray into RVing, and saw we felt like a real missing piece in the RV industry. It felt very old to us, and we were a young family. And we passed through this small town of Kanab and fell in love and long story short, went home, sold everything we owned, and found a piece of 40 acres here with my parents, and we combined our resources and built the RV park of our dreams.

We live here on site, so we wanted our own curated neighborhood. I would say so, our sites are spread out. We haven’t developed. Overall 40 acres, probably about 15 acres of it. And our sites are about 75 to a 100 feet apart. So everyone and all pull through, so everyone really feels like they have their own sagebrush backyard and their privacy.

And we found that so many people come back to stay with us and, they’ve checked the boxes of all the national parks around us. We’ve got Bryce and Zion and the North Rim, and now they just wanna stay. They just love it here so much, and it’s just such a relaxing experience for them.

And so we’re really, really leaning into that and starting to develop some more things here. Like we’re looking into cold plunge and saunas to really develop what is like a spa, sanctuary kind of idea. 

Brian Searl: I think that’s the key, and certainly Angele, you could weigh in on this and Robert too with your experiences and Microsoft camera right now, just because we’re swapping people around.

But I think that’s you’re hitting the nail on the head of like, how do I keep business and be recession proof, be like we talked about the Canadian travelers and European travelers switching their behavior, but also the national parks have been having a lot of issues in some places this year too, in Utah.

But what you’re doing by allowing people to say, yes, we will come to you to go see Zion in Bryce Canyon and everywhere else, and in Utah, all those amazing places. But we then we also wanna come back for you too, I think is like Angele, you have that problem too, right? Which is a good problem to have.

Britt Roth: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We have the guests who come, and we have off-road vehicles and e-bikes that you can rent. So we have that group of people. There’s so much to do. That’s not national parks as well, but some people just don’t wanna adventure. They just wanna stay.

Really exploring what that looks like. And people do love that. We all live on site and we have social hours every Thursday. My mom and I cook for now, 40 to 60 guests and it’s a homemade meal. And people just can’t believe that’s real, that they don’t have to pay for it. And they love the heart and that you feel at home.

And so it was interesting talking about, we’ve been approached many times to sell or have it be managed by someone. And it’s certainly something that we think about, how can we maintain this level of hospitality. But it’s really important to us. ‘Cause the world is rough out there and you come here and it’s like this warm hug, if you will, here, and we love that.

But I know down the road it’ll be harder and harder to find good people, good camp hosts, who want to be an extension of our brand. 

Brian Searl: Same question to you, an Angele, like how do you think about that? And then Robert, I’d love your take too, because I know you’re acquiring a lot of parks and there’s this coming from the outside looking in, just saying I’ve been involved in the industry, but I obviously don’t own a campground.

I think there’s generally a train of thought among people looking to acquire that I need it to be by, within certain radius of a city or by a popular attraction or on the river or lake, and all those are important things, not discounting them, but then how do we pivot that and say that’s important, but also after they’ve seen the lake the one time for the summer and they’re like, I could go to this lake multiple times and so could many people, right?

But then how, or I’ve seen the national park, or I’ve seen the city. How do I then draw that person back repeatedly and continuously just for my property? Angele, I think you do a really good job of that. But Robert, I’d love to know your thoughts after Angele, just how you balance that when you’re acquiring and building, and managing.

Angele Miller: Yeah, that’s a good question. And it’s not easy, especially when competition gets stronger, ’cause a lot of times what happens, like for us when we opened, we were the third glamping resort in our province. And now there’s probably over 55. And in the population in New Brunswick is not that big.

So in terms of the market share, in terms of how many glamping resorts there is per population, it’s very saturated. So, in order you have to keep excelling. You have to keep innovating, and we have to keep making it very appealing to our customers. So they keep coming here. Why would I keep going to Creekside RnR instead of going somewhere else?

And we have guests that come every month. Some they come repetitive, it’s their yearly vacation. But for us, it’s really in the offerings and the customer service that we do. So we really make it easy for our customers, everything is easy from the checking process to when they’re on site.

So when they check in, we send a text and it has the door code, all of the check-in details. They don’t even need to come and meet anyone at the office and get check-in details. They love that. That’s a huge thing that we hear all the time. Also, like the experience inside, we go above and beyond. So all the little details of what we do.

So for example, we know when you’re glamping, you are enjoying the outdoors a lot more, right? So you’re going to have more time to cook and enjoy time with your family or your friends. So we’ve put the green egg style barbecues in every unit so people can have the best cooking experience while they’re with us.

Every unit has a hot tub, and I gotta say that over 90% of people that call will ask, do you have a hot tub? Once they’re having something and they go somewhere and they experience something, they set the bar so different and their expectations are there. So we do get that repetitively, especially in glamping, now people are starting to ask, do I have a private sauna? Do I have a private coal plunge? It’s like you keep adding, but they keep adding. 

Brian Searl: You want more, I want more. 

Angele Miller: You want more and more, but you need to draw the line at some point, but you still need to have those added features and all these things that bring that experience up. So for us, we also have huge amount of local partnerships.

That keep us very strong. So if there’s a top tourist attraction, best lobster around us, or oysters, we bring all these partnerships to offer these experiences. So it’s something they can’t get anywhere else. It’s very unique to us and our region, and the partnerships that we form.

And when people come on site, they can order a lot of food, and when they check in, we deliver everything. It’s all delivered in their fridge, everything. They don’t even have to make a grocery or worry about anything. And we get comments repetitively how that is amazing. And they love that.

They didn’t have to go buy grocery, do anything. They show up. It’s all there. They don’t have to even talk to anyone if they don’t want to. For us, that’s really kept a lot of people coming repetitively. And also like when you combine all these different offerings. So let’s say you have a food option, different partnership offerings, you have the wellness, the spa, the accommodation.

You’re also targeting a huge other market share of audience that you would not, if you’re not doing that. So, for example, for us, we’re targeting now like corporate retreats and a lot of organizations that will come with big groups and book everything because we have it all on site. So we’re attracting a whole other market audience that, in the week, if it would be my slower time, and especially in the winter, I’ll fill with these corporate organizations.

So I think it’s a combination of it all that gives us strength and keep us strong. And we’ve been managed to keep at a five-star and, we have, we’re always full and we rotate, but we really push the customer service as well on top of all these added features. And we also write notes. That’s a big thing.

So for example, let’s say, Brian, you book with us we put a note. So when you rebook, we’ll remember your name, your last name. We’ll welcome you in your unit. Hi Brian. Welcome again to Creekside RnR. We write that at the door. We have a chalkboard that we have there, but if we have a guest that keeps coming in, we keep pumping different local trees and different gifts from also, so they know that we really appreciate that and we recognize them.

 Brian Searl: Robert, what do you think? 

Robert Preston: Yeah, great question. We’ve thought about this a lot. The answer’s probably gonna be somewhat lengthy, but I’ll lay it in the framework. I’ll call it the four by four, right? The four things that we have to do, and the four things of how we do it.

Because to your point, the beauty of most campgrounds is that it was someone’s passion. They built it the way that they wanted it. Britt wanted it, Angele wanted it, right? They built it, and it’s got a passion. It’s an amazing thing. And that’s awesome. So how to then, can you do that at scale?

And quite frankly, I don’t think you can, right? There’s always gonna be a little bit of a loss there. But on the flip side, we believe that people have fundamental needs. You have to meet those needs first before you can. Go to the next step. And so I think the best illustration here is the steak and the sizzle, right?

The sizzle can smell awesome, be great, but if you don’t get the steak, what’s the point? And so for us, the way that we think about this is safety, cleanliness, and friendliness. That’s the stake. You have to have those three things. And then it can be safe, clean, friendly, and fun. Safe, clean, friendly and cheap. Safe, clean, friendly and luxurious. Safe, clean, friendly, and unique.

Whatever that, but without the first three can have some success, but it’s probably gonna fizzle out. Because at the end of the day, then you’re missing one of those key fundamental concepts of 

Brian Searl: Yeah, you need the foundational elements. It’s like the foundational of the wine makers who designed, spend all their capital on the fancy bottle and the wine shit.

Robert Preston: Yeah. And when I was in Afghanistan, I just wanna be safe. I was fine sleeping on a cot in the dirt as soon as I was safe. And then as soon as I got that, as soon as I was safe, then I wanted to be clean. I didn’t wanna sleep in the dirt anymore. So I’m happy sleeping on a concrete there.

And then after that, then you’re starting looking for this. So the psychology triangle of needs. They applied to our guests and us just the same way. And so what I’ve seen, the mistake is that in some other campgrounds that we’ve went into is that it’s all about sizzle.

It’s all about the last component, and the fundamentals haven’t been put in place. So then the way that we do that, right? So how do you do that? It’s a cool thing to say, but we’re of course always trying to get better and don’t do this perfectly, but then from our side of it, then it’s the four buckets is technology, operations, facilities, and marketing, right?

Those are then how we fulfill it to, for ourselves and for our owners. So there’s a long way around to say that, then to get the reoccurring guests, they’ll come for the sizzle once, they’ll come for whatever it is, the lake one time. Maybe not Lake Lakes. You can come, people come for a lot of times.

Brian Searl: Yeah. It’s a bad example. I started it, I’m sorry. It is a bad example, right? 

Robert Preston: Right, so you can have pretty poor hospitality and still come to that view behind you. But my point is they’ll come, they’ll come for that one time, but if the first three are met and they have that feeling, then it’s likely that you can make them a reoccurring guest.

And then, just super practical tip is that some of our best performing parks aren’t the prettiest, aren’t the nicest, but they’ve performed their own sense of community inside of that. And that same friendly, safe, clean, and friendly like feel is part of the culture there. And they’ll self-regulate someone who is violating that unwritten culture. And that’s what we hope to breed and build into what we own and manage. 

Brian Searl: Mike, how do you look at it from your perspective? Yes, Mike? 

Mike Harrison: Oops, sorry. Sorry about that. Robert touched on it. We may call things a little bit differently or use different terminology, but it’s a similar approach, right? If you go back to our lodging experience, we used to say execute excellently, right?

And so you gotta get the basics right. If you have a cabin and you check into the cabin and it’s not clean, it doesn’t matter how beautiful it is, it doesn’t matter where you’re located. The guest is not happy, right? If they check in at eight o’clock and your after-hours check-in isn’t working and they don’t have their packet, they’re not gonna be happy.

It doesn’t matter how beautiful it is, et cetera, et cetera. And you can use that example, however many times you want. So, execute excellently, do the basics great. We are still in hospitality, so you have to make sure that the experience for the customer is seamless. We used to say, don’t provide distractions, right?

All of those are distractions from why they’re there now. Unless you’re a Margaritaville and they’re going because you’re a Margaritaville, they’re usually coming because they wanna see Bryce Canyon or because they wanna, kayak on the river, because they want camp. And so anytime you have a distraction in their stay is gonna be great, that stay. 

And so on top of execute excellently is experiential hospitality, right? So we really combine those two how are we providing experience that is unique that, we say DNA, every one of our properties has its own unique DNA that is irreparable, that you cannot copy.

Listening to Britt, or Angele describe their campgrounds. They have things that are unique to them, that we could never copy at Verde Rancher RV Resort. But how do you leverage that and deliver that on top of the basics? And that’s when you have, a truly great experience.

Robert mentioned the fundamentals. We all have our core pillar. Similar for us, technology analytics. I would add to that list. We’re passionate about analyzing the business, whether it’s profitability wise or revenue wise. How are we looking at the business and continuously improving?

One of our values is curiosity. If we’re not asking why, if we’re happy with what we did yesterday, then we’re never gonna improve and get better. And I was looking at on Angele’s website while she was talking, and I don’t wanna tell her own story for her, but clearly you can tell it’s a passion of, and listening to Britt, same thing.

They did something, they looked at it, they added something else, they did something, they looked at it, they added something else. There’s a new trend here. I want to try this. And, being satisfied with good is not good enough. Is how we look at it is we’re never happy.

And so I can tell by their websites and their story that they’re constantly improving their properties. And that’s, I think, hallmark of what that answer is. 

Brian Searl: So how does an average owner who’s watching the show balance, that is my question because it’s not easy to be clear, but I feel like it would be easier to do those things in a only glamping environment or an only RV environment or an only tent camping environment, right? I think there are people. 

Mike Harrison: I don’t think that’s true. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, I want you to argue, go ahead, argue with me. Go ahead. 

Mike Harrison: Look at Britt and Angele’s, properties, right? I wanna go on a lobster boat. How cool is that? And 

Brian Searl: For sure. That’s why I’m saying it’s not easy, right?

I’m saying that there are different wants and desires that someone traveling in their own RV has versus those who are coming to stay in a glamping unit or a tent. And so it’s like the jack of all trades, right? There are amenities that you can have that will appeal to both, but it’s easier if you’re going all in on glamping or all in RVing, isn’t it? To a certain extent.

Mike Harrison: Know your customer. And again, every property is different. In some, Verde Ranch, we have 30 glamping units. At Buckeye, we have six, right? We don’t have the same guest or demand driver, if you will in Buckeye, Arizona, as we do near Sedona in the Grand Canyon.

And, but they both work, right? You can still have vacation rentals, or glamping properties at each. And so I’d love to 

Brian Searl: Sure. But there are some things, so I’m just, 

Robert Preston: Brian, it’s, it would be like saying 

Brian Searl: Go ahead. We’re just lagging, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to talk over you. 

Mike Harrison: That’s okay. Go ahead, Robert.

Robert Preston: Oh, I guess I’m lagging as well. Brian’s kinda saying, is it easier to put a circle peg into a circle hole or a square peg into a square hole? I think what Mike’s saying is that if you can’t force your customer to be one or the other, you gotta figure out who your customer is and serve them, or figure out what your park is and make sure you bring that customer there.

It can go either way, but if the demand is for mixed glamping, mixed RV, then you can figure that out. It’s not easier or harder, but you can’t force the glamping concept into an RV park that’s not made for it, and the customers don’t want it, vice versa. So I’m not sure it’s harder or easier. It’s just right fit or not right fit. 

Brian Searl: So I agree with that. I mean, yeah, harder and easier might be the wrong word, right? But if you’re looking at like someone who, let’s say somebody who has an established campground who’s had it there for 20 years, who is not deciding to add glamping, who did that?

Not glamping, but cabin rentals, 10, 15 years ago, whatever. To me, like you take the example of Angele’s, Nordic Spa, for example. There is an appeal to that probably depending on your demographic and where you are and what type of people you’re attracting for the glamping side of your business.

But is that the same appeal as the RVs who would stay at a property with glamping, even if that’s still the type of glampers you’re attracting? Does that make sense? That’s why I think it’s maybe harder, easier is the wrong choice. More complex is the better word. 

Robert Preston: If you treat them as the same business, then I think you’ll fail.

If you treat them as different business lines or different business types with different customers, complete different requirements. Can they exist together? Yes. But the idea that they’re the same or have the same wants or needs is not. I think that’s where their air is.

I’ve got an RV park, I’ll throw three cabins on here and two glamping tents. I’ll say it’s a glamping place, and they’ll be full just like dedicated glamping resorts. No, it’s not the same. It doesn’t work that way. So that’s.

Angele Miller: I can also throw in, if you’d like, into that comment.

Brian Searl: Yeah, go ahead. 

Angele Miller: Yeah. So for me, like with that, what I’d like to say is that all the national parks, as you probably know, Brian, in Canada, they’re starting to include glamping units, but a different style of glamping units. So they are adding what they’re called, more like a authentic, they call them and they’re more like a tent, safari tent style, very basic, nothing like what a glamping.

And they’re attracting maybe people that don’t own a RV and they would like to go camping, so it makes it easier for them. But I know for us, with our glamping resort, we get calls all the time. And people ask, do you have sites where we could park an RV or put tents? And we would have the land to do that.

And we personally had made the decision not to do that because the type of clientele we’re bringing in, if we would have the clientele that go tenting, which is a completely different type of clientele, it wouldn’t work together. And it may take away from the clients that are coming all the time.

Sometimes, also because of the price point, you’ll attract a different crowd. Some of the people that will go tenting or camping like that may be more drinking, staying up later, and different things that glampers won’t tolerate, for us. So that’s why we personally hadn’t made the decision to do that.

But I know, depending on how you go about it or what it is and the offering around it, it’s not to say I don’t think there’s a purpose for it or a place for it. Also, like the national parks, I know the authentics are completely full all the time, so yeah, they’re full all the time.

But if you go there, it’s nothing like what we’re doing. Even though they call it glamping, to make it easier. They don’t have power, they don’t have, it’s just like they have the wooden things with the bed and you just bring your stuff and it’s just, yeah. 

So I think it would depend on the level of type of glamping you’re considering and how you go about marketing it so that it matches your market of what you’re already selling to or into.

Robert Preston: Yeah. Brian I think I see your point too, the idea that when you add one cabin, whether it’s one or a hundred, you’ve now added housekeeping. You’ve now added a different maintenance schedule. You’ve now added air conditioners and roofs and walls and plumbing. So there’s a scale problem too that where you, if you are mixing them, great, but it’s not like you just get to put one in and your life, whether you’re a glamping and you had one RV or you’re an RV and you had one glamping, your life changes significantly.

The life of that property changes significantly, whether it’s one or a hundred. I think that’s what your point is. I think that’s very important. 

Brian Searl: I don’t know that I have a point. I guess I’m just being, and I don’t even know if I believe what I’m saying. I’m trying to be convinced, as I always am to learn from the true people who are doing it like you guys are.

I think it’s just interesting from a, like I was approaching it more, I think from an amenity standpoint of like we’re talking about how there’s a perhaps a rightful stereotype against tent campers in some ways, who are partying or being loud or being disruptive. And so some people don’t want them on their property.

I think there are some tent campers who aren’t to force. But those type of people want a different type of amenity. Even going to the basics of, do I want a fully stocked store, or do I want cornhole or do I want a playground for my kids? That’s different depending on your audience and your demographic.

And you should be doing that market research and you should be figuring that out, especially before you’re dropping $80, $150,000 on accommodations. 

Robert Preston: Yeah, I would add you also need to look at your economics. ’cause adding a camp store means you’re adding payroll or adding a person. And so that’s the first question I ask when we’re doing any type of development.

Is it gonna change my payroll? ’cause that’s one of the most expensive line items we have. And should we, or should we not, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing, but I wanna then work through that part of it. An amenity might be phenomenal and everyone may love it, but it also might bankrupt you which is a bad thing, so that they have to bounce the backside of it on, what’s the new expense that’s gonna be in current.

Brian Searl: Sure. Sandy, do you have any thoughts? You’ve been quiet. 

Sandy Ellingson: No, I’m just taking it all in. This has been a great discussion. I’ve been enjoying it. 

Brian Searl: Don’t say great, I’ve been out here, we’ve had technical issues, like it’s been great for all the other people who have carried. 

Robert Preston: She has all the right answers and she’s just not telling us.

Sandy Ellingson: I always have an answer, whether it’s right or not. It’s a different story. 

Brian Searl: But what’s your perspective? And let me be clear, like we’re a couple minutes over, so if any of you guys need to jump please, like Mike had to go, I think for another meeting please do. We’re just keeping this going for a few minutes to finish the conversation.

But just Sandy, what do you think? ’cause you’re mostly on the RV side of things, right? 

Sandy Ellingson: Yes. 

Brian Searl: So what’s your perspective from what we’re talking we’re we focused a little bit on glamping, what’s your perspective from the RV side, briefly? 

Sandy Ellingson: I do think that we just add another complexity to our language that we didn’t stop to define to begin with, right?

Because it used to be glamping was when you were camping in an RV. And so there’s a lot of people that are RVers that when you hear the word glamping, they are glamping. They’re glamping in their RV, right? And I don’t know what other words you would call it, but I think that some of the things that are happening with glamping are amazing, and I love ’em and I take advantage of ’em.

Now, for me, because I’m an RV or, and I have an RV, I do it sporadically, not all the time. But boy, I’ve stayed at some amazing glamping sites, so I think there’s space for all of it. But I agree with Robert, too. Glamping is very much like in the hotel industry or when a park adds a cabin, which may or may not be considered glamping ’cause it’s in an RV park. I don’t know. But there are a lot of other, 

Brian Searl: That’s a good thing. We have AI for all that, right? Forget about the words and the terminology. Just, I wanna go stay somewhere fancy. Okay. That’s called whatever decides to spit out.

Sandy Ellingson: And then you gotta add the complexity of all the hotels now getting into glamping.

There’s the hotel in New York City that I used to go stay at all the time, and they literally took a patio and put tents on it. So now whether they’re for migrants or they’re for people to stay there for glamping, I don’t know, I’m not gonna get it. I’m just kidding. No, they did. It’s $1,700 a night to stay in these tents and they open onto a conference area and that’s where you go to the bathroom is inside.

You have to go inside, but they’re getting $1,700 a night, so it’s just a little bit crazy right now. And it’s just a matter of figuring out where your niche is. 

Britt Roth:Yeah. 

Sandy Ellingson: And then doing what you love so that it never becomes work, 

Brian Searl: And how well you can market that thing to charge $1,700 a night for us. 

Britt Roth: Yeah.

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Britt Roth: If I could say one. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Britt Roth: I just wanna say that I fully agree with you, Sandy. I think that there are so many things happening out there that you can certainly water yourself down. But for, yeah, just for us. Staying in our lane, there are so many people that are so passionate about RVs and the industry and as are we, like that is what we know.

And that’s how we live in our fifth wheels. And there are so many other campgrounds just right around us that are offering all of the things that you’re saying. I’m not about to compete with them. I think what we do, we do it best in our area. And creating that glamping experience for the RVers that are not used to that, creating the amenities that make you feel like you are in the glamping is striking a balance of where the trends are going.

And speaking to your point of economics we do have a store, but everything is on the honor system. And it’s something that people love when they come across it, that we don’t have employees in an office. And we just treat people like we wanna be treated and creating that friendly, safe atmosphere.

But I do agree just sticking in your lane of what you’re most comfortable with, and most knowledgeable with, and most passionate about too. And that just comes across when people roll up. 

Brian Searl: Well, and sticking your lane. Go ahead, Sandy, please. 

Sandy Ellingson: I was gonna say the ultimate thing I tell people when I’m asked to speak on some of these topics is that the difference between a campground and a hotel is that you’re never gonna walk into a hotel and that manager look at you and go, Hey Sandy, how are you doing?How’s the dog? 

And you’re not gonna check into your room and go across the hall in your pajamas and knock on the door and say, Hey, can I borrow some sugar for my coffee? But in a campground, it happens every day. It is all about the relationships we build and about the community that we feel as campers.That does not exist anywhere else. 

It is totally unique. And so if everybody else understood that we would be doing better, right? But we need the other parts of our ecosystem to understand that, and that’s why I fight so hard to help the RV industry understand that they don’t exist without us. We are their heart. We’re the boots on the ground. 

And gratefully it is happening and we’re seeing that shift and so they’re investing in us and I think it’s really important. There’s more to come, 

Brian Searl: Alright. I think it’s an interesting analogy. We’ll end it on the stay in your lane thing. And which is weird for me because I’m an entrepreneur and I don’t like to stay in my lane. But I think the analogy for that is stay in your lane. It’s okay to build, Like you could be on a one lane road for now, you could build it into a two-lane highway. You could build it into a four lane interstate highway later, right? But stay in your lane. Do what you do. Master that. And then maybe add something and add a lane. And add a lane, but don’t go into the oncoming traffic.

Is that a fair, Robert? Will you agree with that? You’re a maybe who I would compare myself to from a scaling people going in all directions, perspective on this call. 

Robert Preston: Yeah. Great illustration.

Brian Searl: Because we hate staying in your lane as entrepreneurs. But I feel like that expands opportunity.

Robert Preston: I wanna do everything. Yeah. I think the takeaway is you can stay in your lane and you can be in multiple lanes, but you can’t go down the road the opposite direction. 

Britt Roth: Yeah. 

Sandy Ellingson: Staying in your lane does not mean no change.

Brian Searl: Build the extra lane. Yeah. Renovate the road. Pay the rock, 

Britt Roth: Create the new lane.

Everyone: Like Exactly. 

Britt Roth: And reinvent what RVing or glamping looks like. There are no rules. You can do whatever you want. And that’s the magic of what I think the industry that we’re in is that it keeps changing, and it looks different. every generation too. And new things, new advances, new technology with these camping, these camping cars from Toyota.

Oh my gosh. I can’t wait to see one of those in our park, to see what it looks like. Yeah, it’s ever evolving and we’re a part of that. 

Brian Searl: I want the flying card land. It’s coming. Yeah. Joby. There’s a bunch of good companies that are coming. But that’ll be interesting too. Okay.

Let’s wrap it up for the week guys. It was a good conversation. Sandy, where can they learn more about what you do and everything. 

Sandy Ellingson: sandyellingson.com is still out there, but it’s morphing into another site, and there is a link there for some of the new things that we’re doing. I have a big birthday this year, which means I am actually trying to begin investing in others who will keep the legacy going. So that’s what this new venture mine’s about. 

Britt Roth: Cool. 

Brian Searl: I’ll take a couple of billion dollars if you’re looking to invest in somebody. Everything’s, yeah, it’s AI. 

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: I’m just saying. 

Sandy Ellingson: Exactly. 

Brian Searl: Robert, any final thoughts and where can they find out more about anti starve? 

Robert Preston: Thanks for having us on here. Honored to be on the panel. Thank you, Sandy. Angele, I’m still not sure how to say it. Angele, Britt. Thanks for having us. Websites, couple websites, (unhitchedmgmt.com) for unhitchedmanagement.com, and then unhitchedrv.com for the gas, the brand side of it. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Robert. And you don’t have to let me know if you really want to have that tax discussion ’cause I think it’s a good discussion to have. For everybody, about the depreciation and some of those things that, that Camp Grounders can take advantage of, so. 

Robert Preston: Have to. 

Brian Searl: Angele, any thoughts? 

Angele Miller: Yeah, so thank you so much Brian for having me. It’s always a pleasure and it was very nice to meet you all and I had a lot of fun on this podcast and so for me, you can reach me at creeksidernr.com or on social media. And yeah, hopefully we’ll see you in the future, in the near future.

And also, Britt, just so you know, I’m Dark Sky certified, so I’ll have to reach out to you. Yeah, because I saw you’re Dart Sky RV, but we just got Dart Sky certified, so.

Britt Roth:Congratulations. 

Angele Miller: Yeah, thanks.

Brian Searl: Britt, last but not least. 

Britt Roth: Yeah. What an honor to be amongst all of you. And I’m like writing everyone’s names and websites down.

You can find me at darkskyrv.com. And it was a, just a pleasure meeting all of you. Thank you so much, Brian for allowing me to be on here. It’s so cool. 

Brian Searl: Tell Sharah, she’s my podcast coordinator. I just show up and talk to people. I’m telling you, I really don’t do anything. Thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

I really appreciate it. For people who normally watch our second podcast Outwired, it is not happening this week ’cause I’m here and Scott and Greg are somewhere else that are important too. So we’re all taking a week off. We’ll see you again next week for another episode of Outwired and for MC Fireside Chats. Until then, have a great week, guys. Thanks for joining us. See you later.

Sandy Ellingson: Bye. 

Everyone: Bye.