MC Fireside Chats – February 5th, 2025

Brian Searl

00:00:00.240 – 00:02:02.800

Welcome to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground. Finally getting my studio to come together behind me here. So kind of excited.

Still a few more pieces to go, and maybe this Mark will be. Mike will be coming at me from a side instead of directly in front of my face.

Although I probably look better with it in front of my face in hindsight. So I got that. Like, there’s always a glass half full moment. So. But super excited to be here for our first kind of.

This is our first episode of the new revamped kind of show format, even though we appear to be missing, like, a bunch of people who committed to come to the show, but hopefully they will show up, and if not, we’ll have a good conversation here. So we have Scott Barr from Cairn Consulting Group and Mark Koep from Campground Views as two of our recurring guests here.

And then we have as a special guest this week, Angel Whitcomb is the president CEO of Hospitality Minnesota. Welcome, Angel. Is it Angie or Angel? Angie. Okay. My notes say angel, so that’s fun. Anyway, I thought that was weird. I was looking at it.

I was like, I wanted to call you Angie. I’m like, it doesn’t make. I mean, there are Angels, so I just didn’t want to be, you know, judgmental or anything because Angel’s a good name, too.

But do you want to introduce yourself briefly, Angie, and tell us just a little bit about your organization?

Angie Whitcomb

00:02:04.100 – 00:02:27.330

Sure. Thank you so much for having me, Brian. I’m Angie Whitcomb.

I’m the president of Hospitality Minnesota, which is the statewide trade association for restaurants, hotels, resorts, and campgrounds in the state of Minnesota. And we have about 3,500 in membership. And I joined the organization just under two years ago.

Brian Searl

00:02:28.990 – 00:03:12.090

Awesome. Well, we’re excited to have you here.

I want to dive into some of the things that you’re doing because as we all know, associations are critical to the success of a lot of these small businesses who don’t have big businesses too. Right. To be clear. But a lot more, I think, to the small businesses who don’t necessarily have the resources of some of the bigger groups.

And so excited to dive into that with you before we kind of get started. Mark and Scott. It’s been, well, like, since last year, since we were on a show together. Right. So there’s my little. What’s happening to my camera?

That’s fun. So just drag one of them over there, Lisa. So anything else that’s been going on in your guys’s world that you need feel me to bring up and discuss.

Mark Koep

00:03:13.590 – 00:04:07.420

Yeah. So we’ve been on our end. So first off, hello everybody. Brian, I love that introduction that you have for this, this video. That was cool. I love it.

The biggest thing that’s going on in our world is that we’re going into the spring, the winter and spring trade show season. And so we’ve been down, our team’s been to a number of trade shows.

We’ll be at Carolina this next week and kind of hearing the same thing across the board. And I think Scott’s going to echo this too, is we’re kind of into a normal camping year. The election cycle’s over, right? Yay.

We don’t have the uncertainty of that. And this will be the first year really post Covid that we kind of have a normal camping year.

And so a lot of people are experiencing that for the first time.

A lot of park owners who bought properties during the peak of this bubble and or this, this Covid bubble that we had and they’re, they’re kind of discovering that. Wait, you mean people don’t just randomly show up at my park all the time and fill it up all the time.

You actually have to do marketing and what do I have to do there? And so we’re kind of seeing that right now where it’s more of a normal season.

Brian Searl

00:04:07.800 – 00:04:59.340

Do people show? I think the people that show up are just there to like, dine and ditch, so to speak. Those are the people. Like those people still show up.

But I feel like that’s not helping the bottom line. And we’re going to get into that. Right.

Like you’re like, I think it’s a normal year, but I also think it’s an abnormal year from an economic standpoint. Right. Like where.

And we’ll talk about more about that maybe on our outwired show later, Scott, because we don’t want to get into into some of that stuff. But like I I is normalizing from what you just talked about from COVID from the presidential election, things like that.

I think it’ll be interesting to see what the economic conditions of 2025 and some of the policies that are being put into place, you know, state and federally that may or may not impact this inflation, stuff like that. But that’s like a Debbie Downer conversation. We’ll save that for outwired. So, Scott, anything on your plate?

Scott Bahr

00:05:00.160 – 00:06:23.050

You know, we’re looking at this year’s data from, for the new outdoor hospitality report that’ll be coming out later this Spring, we’ve been immersed in that. And I would echo what Mark said, that there’s. There’s gonna be some interesting stuff for people to see.

To be a little bit of a teaser that, yeah, it feels like things are, in some respects, they’re resetting, but it’s resetting based on. It’s that what the example I use think of a natural disaster like a.

A flash flood or a forest fire that comes through and kind of scours things out, and then what happens on the other side is very different. And that was kind of what Covet did. So you’re going to see new things sprout up.

You’re going to see some changes in the landscape, and you’re going to see some of the things that were there before appear as well. So that’s my metaphor for the day. I’ll try not to use anymore because I’m not very good at it. But, yeah, it’s gonna be an interesting year.

And there’s a. There’s a lot going on this spring and we’ll have to keep a prize of it. I know, Mark. I see your name all over the place at the.

The different conferences. I’ll be at a couple myself in the. The coming months, so it’ll be fun.

Brian Searl

00:06:24.870 – 00:06:30.382

Yeah, that should be. The CARVC conference is coming up soon, right? Is it. Are they still called CARVC? I don’t even know.

Mark Koep

00:06:30.486 – 00:06:31.834

This Sunday? Yep.

Brian Searl

00:06:31.982 – 00:06:51.234

Yeah. Okay. I wish I could get to all these. It’s expensive to fly from Canada, but anyway, we’ll try to do that.

But Scott, do you want to talk about briefly, like, I want to get into Angie and her association, obviously. I don’t think we’re going to be able to talk a full hour about that as much as fast. Well, we could. We could.

Angie’s probably doing enough interesting things. We could talk for an hour.

Scott Bahr

00:06:51.322 – 00:06:54.050

I think so. I’d love to talk to her about. For about an hour, so.

Brian Searl

00:06:54.090 – 00:07:00.726

Yeah, well, we will. We will. We’ll talk to her like. But maybe. Maybe we’ll give her a half hour. Is that there? Is that enough for you, Scott?

Scott Bahr

00:07:00.838 – 00:07:02.502

Well, I have to leave early, so.

Brian Searl

00:07:02.606 – 00:07:11.770

Oh, okay. Well, we’ll just briefly then. And we’re going to dive into this more on Outwired later.

But briefly touch on the report that we just released for hospitality highlights.

Scott Bahr

00:07:12.510 – 00:08:34.086

Yeah, I think one of the things that, you know, you and I have talked about extensively, but comes out in this evaluation, I’ll call it, that we do, of the marketplace and what’s going on, based a lot on People’s behavior and interests and how that’s changing. And a lot of the traditional ways that people are seeking to experience the outdoors are changing in terms of they’re waning a bit.

Again, it’s a bit of a refresh.

So what we’re seeing is this desire for different types of experiences while people are camping and glamping and again, experiencing the outdoors, whether it’s how they’re looking for information, which I think is very important. It’s one of the things that we do a lot of is looking at what is the level of interest in these different topics.

So, for example, we’ve seen this huge increase in people who were using the new way of referring to car camping, which is people who sleep and stay in their cars. That part of the industry is taking off. And it’s taking off not just from participation, but the products as well, which I think are very important.

Because, for example, a lot of campgrounds won’t accept people sleeping in their cars. Yeah.

Brian Searl

00:08:34.118 – 00:08:43.110

Because there’s a stereotypical adage of like a trailer park. Right. It’s not. It’s just. It’s not what it was. But they made it out to be.

Scott Bahr

00:08:43.230 – 00:10:15.840

Yep. Are one campgrounds either figuring out a way to compromise with these folks? Are these folks improvising?

But the industry itself is responding a little bit with more of the products. The. The tents that.

That can attach and the, you know, the rooftop tents, which have been around for a little while anyway, but also the ones that go out the. Like the back, if you have, say, a Subaru Outback is very common car, camping vehicle. So they attach it to the back. So now they actually have a tent.

People are building the products to go inside of these. And the reason I bring it up as is it’s a growth segment when everything. Now so much else. We’ve heard a lot about declines and.

And in different sectors and especially with RVs, you know, we’ve seen some declines there, but this is growth. This is growing. The interest not just in. In the way people are doing it in their cars, but the products that support it. And I think that’s.

That’s just important to.

To consider in the bigger context of our industry, which is one, how are people looking for information, but how are they looking to experience things again? You know, we’ve looked at some of these other trends, like, you know, people’s interest, in the actual words of like camping and RVing are declining.

But when you look at, you know, the van life or car camping again, or, you know, some of these Other forest bathing is up. Continues to climb.

Brian Searl

00:10:16.180 – 00:10:21.756

People ask, what do you actually like? I mean, I understand. Is it literally what it is, forest bathing or.

Scott Bahr

00:10:21.908 – 00:10:34.346

It’s. It’s basically sitting in the forest and kind of taking it all in. Kind of like what you used to do.

You know, you walk out in the woods and maybe sit on a rock or something and just kind of sit there and hang out for a bit. That’s kind of what it is.

Brian Searl

00:10:34.418 – 00:10:46.906

Well, like, when you say it, it comes to mind, like, I’ve been to, like, those natural hot springs, right? We have some here in Canada. And, like, I’ve been to Iceland and, like, there’s kind of those natural hot springs. You kind of like.

That’s what I would think forest bathing would be, right?

Scott Bahr

00:10:46.978 – 00:12:01.346

It is, right. But no, it is not. It’s like kind of like immersing yourself in the forest as you would in the hot spring and. Sounds much more inviting, by the way.

But yeah, it’s. It’s not that, Brian. It’s. It’s that.

It’s just kind of people hanging out and relaxing and looking at different ways of kind of experiencing the outdoors. And, you know, there’s these desires to reconnect as well. There’s. Anyway, there’s a lot going on there. There’s a lot to say about it. But in.

In terms of kind of what we were trying to do with the report is show how this things.

How people want to experience the outdoors is changing, how the words they’re using are changing, and there still is opportunity out there, but you have to go get it, and you have to kind of meet people where.

Where they are and bring them in, because they’re not using a lot of the traditional ways, whether it’s the channels, the words they’re using, how they’re doing their searches, but also how, again, how they want to stay. It’s like I could produce like 50 graphs that show this.

Brian Searl

00:12:01.498 – 00:13:16.950

You know, we’re gonna talk about it more on outwired, right? Like, we’re gonna. This is part of what we’re gonna dive into is Lisa puts me on camera with my water bottle open. It’s a nice water bottle. I just.

The spot. We should have a sponsor for the water bottle sponsor. But I’m not that popular. Nobody watches the show, so.

But so it is like, I do want to dive into that more on outwired, right?

Because I have, you know, some of the things that are changing, like you talked about with behavior, but also stereotypes like car camping or trailer parks or things like that, that like traditionally a lot of owners have said, like, ew, I don’t want that at my park. And I think that there’s obviously justification for some of that. Ooh, right? Or ooh, you. I can’t even. How do you pronounce that word anyway?

But I also think that a lot of it is changing. Right.

And so that terminology, we almost need like an updated guidebook of sorts to say like this could mean this, so watch out for it still and be cautious of it and maybe don’t accept it into your park. But also there’s a segment of this now that is growing or shrinking in some cases or changing that maybe you do want in your park.

Especially if we’re heading into an economic time where it’s no longer you build it, they will just come. Right, right.

Scott Bahr

00:13:17.250 – 00:14:41.110

Yeah, it’s.

I think the bottom line is, and if you, if you look at the report, what you’ll, you’ll be able to see is that there are some relationships too to external factors like, you know, the travel price index, gas prices, stuff like that, and how people are seeking to travel. I’m going to say travel in general and because one of the things that I talk about a lot is that people have a desire to travel.

They still want to travel somehow. The outdoors is typically a great way to do that. But if you have sustained economic anxiety, that’s going to change even more.

People are going to look for other types of alternatives apart from some of the traditional ways of experiencing the outdoors and how they travel. You know, in recent years we saw road trips again. Road trips and car camping, they’re highly related.

It’s, you know, it’s less expensive in terms of prices of gas and so on. You can look for alternatives. There’s a lot of free places to, to stay. And again, these are driving a lot of the behavior.

So it’s one of those things that, you know, people who are at the park should keep track of. They should monitor what people are doing. They should talk to their guests, ask them questions.

Those people who are car camping, I think they’re great people to have a conversation with because they’ll tell you a lot about what’s going on and look at their motivations and what’s drive, what’s driving them.

Brian Searl

00:14:41.730 – 00:14:46.640

But the, yeah, we know what’s driving them. They’re sleeping in. It’s got. That’s easy.

Scott Bahr

00:14:49.060 – 00:14:50.972

Asleep at the wheel. Has a whole new meaning.

Brian Searl

00:14:51.036 – 00:14:54.400

We don’t even need data scientists like you anymore. We’ve got this handled.

Scott Bahr

00:14:55.780 – 00:15:24.774

So anyway, it’s it’s, you know, with all the economy, the election, as Mark mentioned, you know, that kind of being in the rearview mirror, I’m going to keep using metaphors until someone shuts me down that it’s, it’s keep an eye on these things because they’re impacting what people are doing. And like I said, there’s growth out there. It just, it’s not. You’re gonna have to find it. And it’s not in places that are traditional. Traditional.

Brian Searl

00:15:24.902 – 00:16:10.026

Well, that’s why I think it’s interesting that we have Angie on here. Right. And why I want to dive into Angie’s association here for a few minutes because it’s interesting. Like you.

Well, all of us, Mark and Scott, we’ve been in this industry for a long time. And I’ve been to, you know, pre Covid. I went to every single state association show. I would still like to go every state association show.

People email me too much for me to do that. And some. I moved to Canada or something. So that’s. Anyway. But like, we’ve.

For all the associations and correct me if I’m wrong, Mark, but like for every other association except for Minnesota that exists and some states don’t have any.

But for the ones that exist, there are none that combine campgrounds and hotels, let alone campgrounds, hotels, restaurants, all of hospitality are there.

Mark Koep

00:16:10.218 – 00:16:41.756

There are none. No. The closest you’ll get would be like a DMO or destination marketing organization who may represent some campgrounds that are in their area.

But that’s about the closest you’ll get, usually because. And there’s reasons. And I’ll let Angie kind of explain.

Like, I imagine there’s challenges because campgrounds are obviously different than hotels, and hotels may be driving more revenue to the association, and therefore they have a higher. A better say or a bigger say or whatnot. It’s. I couldn’t. I can’t imagine trying to herd that many cats.

Not only you doing hotels and campgrounds, but also. I think you said restaurants also.

Brian Searl

00:16:41.828 – 00:18:21.940

So we’re just gonna imagine. And Angie’s gonna tell us how she do. She’s gonna give us our secret sauce in a second. But like, but yeah, like, I think that’s just.

It’s something that we emphasize on this show so much is the working together piece of it. And we’ve had, for example, Harvest so Sunny or In Hip Camp Alyssa and, and, and I’ve talked at conferences to people who, like, there’s.

It goes back to the stereotypes, right? The. Oh, these people are staying in a Walmart parking lot. Or, oh, these people are staying overnight at a winery.

Away business from my private campground. Or, oh, they’re staying in a hotel that’s not my guest. But the truth is, I think.

And the way our, like, data that Scott has researched, and I’m sure Angie will tell us, is, like, people sometimes want to stay in a hotel, and maybe next time they want to go camping, and maybe the second time they will go camping, they’ll stay in a Walmart parking lot or a winery, and then the next time they go to a private campground. And so, like, I think there’s a ton of crossover here for all this stuff to work together and be cohesive, which is ultimately what we want.

They all complement each other, but instead, the conversation that I hear tends to be like, why would you go to a hotel when you could stay outside and wave to your neighbor? I don’t want to wave to my neighbor. That’s me. Like, right. Like, I don’t care. Like, but I’m also, like, a workaholic. Right?

So that’s not probably the way I should be. But. But then there’s the people in the hotels who are like, why would you want to go outside with bugs?

And so, like, I feel like there’s just a place for all this stuff. As we talked about, more people are going back into Cruising, for example, this year after Covid.

Toby O’Rourke has talked about that in some of her LinkedIn posts and stuff. But that’s just. They’re not gone from camping. They’re just doing something different this year. So, Angie, how do you hurt all the cattle?

Angie Whitcomb

00:18:22.840 – 00:22:04.520

Yeah, well, you don’t hurt all the cattle.

And so to give a little background on how we ended up being the association that is trying to cover it all, prior to Covid, we were three separate associations with a parent organization. So we were the Restaurant association, we were the Lodging association, and then we were the Resort and Campground Association. Pre Covid.

They merged them all together, brought the parent company in, and thought that we would get much further with combining efficiencies rather than having six boards and six foundations and all of the things. And it makes perfect sense.

And then Covid hit, and we never got to launch as this big, powerful voice of hospitality in Minnesota because we were too busy just trying to get information to everybody during the pandemic on here’s. Here’s the rules as they’re ever changing, and here’s, you know, the tools and avenues for survival.

So, you know, it is a unique challenge that we are members well, and one of the things that I have found and I came, my background was in chamber of commerce world, so I was used to sort of representing of the business community in a larger scale.

So having, you know, three diverse segments of membership to serve is not unique to me from an experience standpoint, but it does bring up the challenges. And for as many similarities as all of our segments or sectors have, there are those unique things.

And Minnesota, we’ve struggled the last couple of years with weather. We had a winter with no snow or ice, and so winter camping and all outdoor winter activities took a hit.

And then we had the spring that was all floods and all rain. And so we’ve just taken a hit that way. And that impacts our resorts and campgrounds, you know, and, you know, how do you herd the cats?

I don’t know that you do. You just.

I think, Mark, I think you said it beautifully, where as much as you’re trying to find people where they’re and meet them where they’re at and bring them in from the guest perspective, that’s really what we are doing.

We’re trying to do with our membership and, you know, the advocacy things, the advocacy issues that we tackle on behalf of the greater hospitality industry. There’s a lot of commonality.

I mean, you talk about employer mandates, so earn sick and save time and minimum wage mandates, and particularly in our restaurants and hotels right now we’ve got a battle going on here with service fees and the ability for states and these businesses to charge them. So there’s always something.

And you know, campgrounds this year, they showed up on the advocacy radar with their own special unique legislative challenge.

And that’s that language between the campground and the guest and making sure that it is changed to not be the landlord tenant relationship are perceived that way and uninvite a guest if need be without it being a civil issue. So we’ve got, you know, there’s, there’s a. We’re busy all the time and we’re looking for commonalities, for efficiencies.

But we also, as the statewide association with that many stakeholders, we’ve got to find those unique issues and address them equally. And we do get a lot of heat. Oh, restaurants get all the attention.

Our hotels get all the attention, you know, but we’re trying to, we’re trying to service all of them.

Brian Searl

00:22:05.460 – 00:22:46.710

Well, that’s what I was going to ask you, right?

Like whether we were just basically making this up because we have no concept of what happens, like in our own little heads telling us the story of everybody’s inviting and give me preference or not preference. Or you’re preferring hotels over campgrounds over restaurants.

Like, and the more I think about it, like, there probably obviously is a little bit of that going on because, you know, not everybody is always getting along and happy go lucky with everybody else.

But I think it’s probably very small because the other dynamic here too is like, you think about the dynamic we’re coming from, from campgrounds and hotels. Like, how does the hotel with a restaurant feel about Bob Evans being promoted or something? Right. Like just making something up.

I want them to eat breakfast with me. Why are you promoting their restaurant? So I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know.

Angie Whitcomb

00:22:47.570 – 00:24:53.390

Yeah, I think that’s the great thing that. Well, that’s one of the things that I’ve enjoyed moving into the association world versus the chamber.

We’re not necessarily promoting specific businesses as much as we’re advocating for and fighting for an industry. And we are all part of the hospitality industry.

So our goal at Hospitality Minnesota is to ensure that there are policies that support our industry and allow our industry to thrive.

Whether you are an independent campground on the most northern part of Minnesota by lake of the woods, or you’re a hotel chain that’s got locations in all of our major metropolitan areas in the state. So advocating for an industry helps eliminate that kind of infighting.

Or they’re getting more attention than we are, I will say, when municipal issues pop up. So we just had a policy issue we were fighting or a policy proposal we were advocating against in the city of Minneapolis.

And it was about a two year discussion. It took a lot of our energy internally from our government affairs team and our board and our. Everybody was really engaged with it.

And we got a little bit of heat from outstate. Like, why are you so metro focused? You’re a statewide association. And that’s a fair question.

And the answer in that case is because if this, if this policy is allowed to pass here, it’s coming to you and it’s coming to outstate Minnesota. So it’s kind of like, which I don’t want to say fire, because that’s a little too close to home right now with what’s going on.

But it’s like, which tire is lowest on your car? We’re going car camping. Which tires lowest? That’s the one you’re going to fill up. Which issue is the most pressing right now that we need to stop?

And we joke internally that it’s like legislative whack. A mole. Which one are we going to hit right now and which one’s going to provide the greatest benefit for all.

Brian Searl

00:24:54.050 – 00:25:39.230

So talk to us, talk us through some of the like I’m interested in the economic shifts and some of the demographic changes that we’ve gone through over the last few years. Right. And, and I think this maybe applies to hotels a little bit but obviously we’re a campground related show.

So anything you pull out specific to that. Right. But just like so much has changed as Scott talked about. Right.

With just not just car camping but just the types of people who would stay and some of them are the same of course, but the types of people who would stay pre Covid to during COVID to now after Covid and then also the economy changes, presidential elections, all the things. So what’s the outlook of Minnesota look like from your association standpoint? I know that’s a big question.

Angie Whitcomb

00:25:39.350 – 00:26:36.688

That is a load. That’s a loaded question. And oh gosh. So from an economic standpoint.

So if we look at the data I one of the things and I wrote this down, Mark, is that you talked about is that people are, their behaviors are changing and consumers are weighing their options and they’re looking at the costs and they’re being very selective.

And whether that’s you’re booking a trip and you’re going to camp or you’re going to go, you know, or you’re going to glamp or you’re going to car camp. What’s more economic. Right. And how far are you willing to drive and what’s the cost of gas and all that goes into that?

I think consumer behavior is certainly driving it. But what we’re seeing in the numbers is that a lot of our members are reporting up, but that doesn’t equate to being more profitable year over year.

Revenues are up, but they’re not necessarily up in us or the labor costs or.

Brian Searl

00:26:36.824 – 00:26:39.380

Now is that because of inflation?

Angie Whitcomb

00:26:41.080 – 00:27:22.554

It’s because of inflation. It’s because in Minnesota we have really aggressive minimum wage inflators and minimum wage and we all want to take care of our employees.

But we’re, we’re also unique in that, you know, we’re one of, you know, seven states without the tip credit. One of seven or four states that doesn’t allow tip pooling.

We’ve got really aggressive minimum wage laws and so the, and, and we’ve got a labor shortage in the hospitality industry, in our industry in the state we employ about 350 or there’s about 350,000 jobs. And on any given day, we’re about 15,000 employees short of where we need to be.

Brian Searl

00:27:22.722 – 00:28:02.250

Why do you think that? And I know we’re lagging and so you’re paying more. Talking over me. We’re lagged.

I’m sorry, I just wanted to preface it for the audience to think that I wasn’t interrupting you weirdly and you weren’t trying to interrupt me. Or maybe you were because it’s better when you interrupt me and you talk.

But specifically related to that, like, I’m curious, why do you think that shortage exists with employees? Because we hear a lot about layoffs that are happening in different sectors.

You know, maybe mostly tech for now, but we hear of a lot of people, I think, who are looking for jobs and obviously there’s a mismatch. But why do you think those vacancies exist when there are more people looking for work now?

Angie Whitcomb

00:28:03.190 – 00:29:56.720

Yeah, I think in our industry we saw a lot of people leave hospitality during the pandemic and seek other opportunities, other industries.

I truly Brian that there is a huge awareness gap on what it means to have a job in the hospitality industry and how many great options there are to work in our industry. One of the things we are doing, I mean this is a focus of our education foundation here at Hospitality Minnesota.

And so we’re working with some of our national partners on all three segments, camping and both restaurant and lodging too.

So in just working on workforce training programs and we were successful last legislative session in securing funding to build a free online training program, customer service training program for anyone in the hospitality industry in the state.

So if you are a campground owner and you want to to offer free training to your employees or free training to candidates you’re considering or promoting from within, I mean, we’re doing everything that we can to try to create those opportunities, cost effective opportunities for employers to retain employees and then within the industry really closing that awareness gap of what you, your opportunities there are. I mean, if you want to be an accountant, you can still do that in the holiday industry.

You know, if you want to be in marketing, if you want to be a chef, if you want to run your own resort or campground, there’s all of these opportunities and we really are trying to drive home the fact that it’s a very low barrier entry point to get into our industry. If you have that entrepreneurial spirit and want to want to do that.

Brian Searl

00:29:57.750 – 00:30:17.210

Go ahead Scott, like we’ll see you later on Outwired. Scott’s gotta jump. But yeah, Angie, I’m curious. Like, you know, we talk about some of the guest preferences and how those have changed.

How do you see that changing? And like, what do you think people are looking for as they go camping in 20, 25 in Minnesota? Is it different? Is it the same? Is.

Angie Whitcomb

00:30:25.100 – 00:31:17.080

Yes, both. Right. In some of our campgrounds in amenities. You know, I think when you’re being more selective with how you spend your money, it’s. It’s.

Where can I get the most for what I’m willing to spend and the most in terms of the overall experience and convenience and, you know, some. I would call it comfort. But it’s your preference, like, if you, if you don’t want to go glamping, but you prefer to tent camp or whatever. But.

So I, I do think that what we’re seeing is just a more intent on what’s. What’s the overall experience going to be and how much can we. How unique can we make it?

Brian Searl

00:31:18.910 – 00:32:43.640

So that’s like, that’s a conversation. Campground. Sorry, I know we’re just lagging. I apologize. I’m just gonna. So. But, like.

And I want you to finish your thought in a second, but just so we don’t have to lag back and forth, I’m just gonna finish my sentence.

So, like, it’s very interesting to me because if you look at how, like, people are having that attitude of, you know, I can only take maybe less vacations or stay less nights or, or do you know, I’m being more. I’m willing to be more picky because my money isn’t going as far as it used to or I have less of it.

That’s something we’ve talked about, like Mark and I have talked about frequently, as well as the other guests of the show, about how people, like, it’s not enough anymore to just set up a campground with the same patio sites and the same furniture and the same pool and the same miniature golf, and then they’re just all going to fill up anymore. And I feel like that’s a little bit about what you’re talking about, but is that what interests me most is. You’re right.

Like, I mean, I know you know, you’re right, but like I’m saying, we concur on the campground side. But, like, how do you. How do you. Well, actually, you know what the question I want to ask first is, is that something that’s impacting hotels, too?

Is it something where the.

The guests are being more picky about the hotels that they stay at because they want a hotel they stay at to offer a different or better experience than they Otherwise would have been willing to settle for.

Angie Whitcomb

00:32:45.740 – 00:33:22.566

I think it’s true of campgrounds, resorts, hotels, and even our restaurants. And if you think about how people live their life right now, so especially in campgrounds, what are people looking for?

We can work from anywhere, right? So somebody may decide, I’m going to go spend a month in the woods, I’m going to go immerse, I’m going to go forest bathe.

But I still have to go to work.

So it’s going to be really important to me to have WI fi and, you know, I don’t know, maybe a comfortable backdrop that your boss isn’t going to know you’re in the forest. If you have to do green screen.

Brian Searl

00:33:22.598 – 00:33:28.530

You can flop in the middle of the forest while you’re forest bathing. It’s so weird. That’s such a weird term. I’m going to have to get used to that.

Angie Whitcomb

00:33:30.510 – 00:34:50.542

I know. It took me a minute while you’re talking, I was like, oh, yeah, I’ve heard of that. So. But yeah, I think it’s true. We’re seeing it everywhere.

We’re seeing it in restaurants, we’re seeing it in hotels, and I think it’s, you know, we partner with our national partners and then our state partners through Explore Minnesota are statewide tourism.

And even I think, Mark, it was you talking about the DMOs and the CVVs we’re all seeing consistently is that the businesses we represent and serve and in the DMO’s case, promote, they’re having to get really creative to draw people in. To your point, you don’t just put up your shingle and people fill your park and then it just cycles through. Those days, I think are gone.

And it’s how do you get that edge? And it’s from everything from how do you get that edge with your employees? How do you get that edge with your guest?

And you know, it’s, it’s making it harder.

So all of them, all of our members, every hospitality owner, operator in our state and I would argue our nation is doing more with less for less and having to evolve every year, every quarter, every season, it’s got to be different. And God help you if you don’t have a pickleball court right now. Right? That’s everybody’s go to it.

Brian Searl

00:34:50.566 – 00:35:56.290

Well, so that’s interesting.

Like if you talk about and maybe I just want to not interrogate and investigate journalists, you or anything like that, but ask you, like maybe a question that you have to think about for a second before answering, and that’s like, if you look at, and I know everybody’s preferences are different. Everybody wants something different. There are luxury travelers, there are budget travelers, there are mid tier travelers.

There are people who want pickleball courts. There are people like me who bought pickleball shoes and realized they can’t play pickleball. There are all kinds. There are all kinds of people. Right.

And so recognizing that everybody’s opinion is different, when you answer this question, if you were speaking to hotel owners, campground, I mean you are speaking to campground owners, but those type of business owners, and they came to you and they said, angie, I have a chance to do one thing.

Like, I’m not even talking about like renovations that cost millions of dollars or adding a water park or putting in a restaurant, but I have a chance to do one thing that’s different and, and like not all doing the same thing. Right. But like one thing that’s different that could really have a chance to set me apart.

What would you recommend, Angie, from your data and your experience that I should focus on in 2025?

Angie Whitcomb

00:35:57.630 – 00:36:11.440

Oh, my God, Brian, I told you it was hard. Yeah, you know, and I don’t know that I can come up with an answer for you. There is no one magic thing, I think.

Brian Searl

00:36:11.560 – 00:36:26.940

No, I know that. I’m not implying that it’s a magic thing. I guess I’m just looking for your intuition of a starting point.

Not the only thing they need to do or the thing that will make them successful. But where do I start if I have never had to focus on experience before?

Angie Whitcomb

00:36:30.610 – 00:39:04.320

Yeah, no, that is, that is a really great question and it’s probably one that’s going to rattle around in my brain for the next three weeks and I’m going to call you up and go, I think I have a better answer for you. But what I see consistently that sets my are more successful members up, regardless of what segment is.

It’s that intangible that it’s that experience, that moment, that hospitality that occurs between the employee, the owner and the guest. What is. And so it’s those personal touches that we’re seeing. So I’m thinking of a resort owner who owns several properties along our North Shore.

And the training that they put their employees through and the mindset and the expectation of interaction at all times. You know, they base it off that book, hospitality from the heart.

And all of their employees are trained every guest interaction and they’re doing really well. And they’re. No, they don’t have more amenities, better amenities than any other resort on the North Shore. They’re all comparable, right?

But it truly is that moment, that interaction, that emotional response that they get and give to their guests that I truly think sets them apart.

And as I think how I spend my money as a consumer, you know, if I go to two campgrounds and they’re exactly the same, or I go to two restaurants, and all things being equal, I’m gonna go where I feel most welcome. I’m gonna go where somebody remembers my name. I’m gonna. Or even takes the time to learn my name if I’ve never been there before.

So I know that’s probably not as hard of a hitting answer as you wanted, Brian. And listeners are probably rolling their eyes and almost hear it from here. But I just. I don’t think that it’s any one thing tangible, any item, any.

It’s not better WI fi. It’s not softer, you know, sheets on the cots.

It’s not that anymore. I mean, it used to be that way.

When you think about the hotel, I mean, 10 years ago, five years ago, even, you know, like, oh, come and stay on our beds. We have the fluffiest beds. Or cut. You know, our breakfast is the hottest, and our pancakes are the best. It’s not that anymore.

People are being more selective, and consumers are looking for that experience that makes them feel something. I think.

Brian Searl

00:39:05.020 – 00:42:10.580

I mean, I will say that I’m not rolling my eyes, and if anybody in the audience is rolling their eyes, then I think that they should probably immediately stop or get a better understanding of what you’re talking about. I think it was an excellent answer, and we’ll get Mark’s opinion.

I’m going to ask you the same question in a second, Mark, so you can prepare for that.

I know there’s no such thing as personal touch in Wyoming because you guys are too far apart, but for the rest of the stuff, you can weigh in, but, like. But I think you’re dead on. Right? Right. And this is not like Outwired will be the show where we kind of speak frankly to people.

So this isn’t one of those, you know, moments where I want to do that on this show, but, like, I think there is a lot of that necessary. And to be clear, there are a lot of people in our industry who do this. Right.

I’m not saying this is a blanket problem or even a majority problem in our industry, but I think it is a problem. Especially, like.

I mean, even if you look at some of the things that your little rant group, Mark, that I’m not even in that people kind of complain about, right. And not saying that they aren’t justified.

There are certain things, there are certainly things that you should rant about because some people are crazy and deserve to be ranted about, right? But there’s also the mindset of like, this is hospitality. You chose to own a campground.

You chose to show up every day and be involved in an even more intimate setting as a campground than you are at a hotel with a one on one, either a couple or a couple members of your staff. And so there is this need to kind of go back and say, I need to focus on hospitality.

I need to make sure that no matter which side of the bed I woke up in the morning and whether my coffee tasted good or not or whatever, there’s a smile on my face when I talk to that guest. Because that is what’s going to. And it’s hard. Like, it’s hard.

I wake up probably 50 of the time grumpy and I’m like, I don’t want to talk to anybody for a couple hours. But like, that’s why I’m not in hospitality. Like, that’s why I host a show that I can turn off and then be grumpy after it, right?

But I don’t know, like, I think that’s a larger conversation, right, that, that people just need to. And especially now more than ever, we’ll talk more about this on not necessarily a specific topic, but on outwired.

Just generally speaking as a theme of a show. Like, you gotta understand this as a park owner.

Like, this is not, I mean, and Mark, you can correct me if I’m wrong or just say like, I don’t know, throw me under the bus or whatever you want to do. But like, and this is probably why we shouldn’t. We aren’t broadcasting the other show in your group, right.

It is like, I just think there’s a need for some of, some of these owners to pay more attention to what is happening out here. It’s not since 2011, the economy has been going up. Inflation has been mostly flat until the last few years. Money has been cheap.

Interest has been, you know, basically low and free. And that coincided with like really, 2010, 11 when social media, Facebook and all that started to really pick up steam.

And so since then they have like, it has been a Kevin Costner scenario where if you build it, they will come and if not, you just throw a couple thousand bucks at Facebook ads or post for free on social media and they will get there anyway. But it’s different now.

Angie Whitcomb

00:42:13.040 – 00:42:15.300

It’s different now. And if you think about it 

Brian Searl

00:42:15.760 – 00:42:17.940

Angie’s gonna go. Okay, go ahead, Angie, please.

Angie Whitcomb

00:42:18.800 – 00:42:48.744

Sorry. This lag is ridiculous. I’m sorry. If you think about it, we talked earlier. They’re doing more with less and there’s a labor shortage.

So it’s more important, important now than ever. And I think it’s harder now than ever because they’re working double shifts.

I know a CEO of a resort group goes to the resorts on the weekends and strips beds because there’s just not enough people to get it all done. And that’s a right through. If that’s not your job, probably, yeah.

Brian Searl

00:42:48.792 – 00:43:12.560

And like, to be clear, I’m not saying this is easy on a campground owner. I’m not suggesting. It’s just, okay, let’s go to chat GPT and figure out a plan and then everything will be fine.

And I’ll just put on a smile like it’s hard. Like harder than I can possibly imagine because I’m not, I’m not brave enough to own a campground for that very reason.

But I think it just, it has to be done. Mark, to you.

Mark Koep

00:43:12.860 – 00:45:07.140

Yeah, so, so that was a really, it’s a really good question. I’ll go back to my thoughts as, as Angie was struggling with it because that was a good question. I always go back to the customer.

I always go back to who, who we’re serving. And so my immediate reaction about what’s that magic bullet or what’s that one thing you can do? The answer is it’s going to vary.

It depends upon your location, your audience, who your guests are. Right. So, so that’s challenging.

And so the way you do that, the way I’d recommend somebody to do that, is you simply go to your Google reviews and you take an honest look at what people say about your park, what they like about it, what brings them there, and that type of stuff.

And if you don’t have enough Google reviews, just search your competitors in your area and read their Google reviews and do that exercise to understand why people come to your area, how long they like to stay, what they don’t want to do around your area. And you may get glimmers of information from that exercise that kind of tells you, huh, there’s something here, here, Right.

So you mentioned I’m in Wyoming. Right.

So I live in Wyoming. There’s 500,000 people in the entire state.

Like there is an RV park that was just built not too far off the interstate, about 30 miles from my house. And that park has remained mostly empty. And that’s because they’re actually marketing themselves as a destination RV resort.

When I look at it, they’re in the middle of nowhere. They literally should call themselves Middle of nowhere RV Resort. That should be their tagline. That’s how they should market themselves.

Because people would. It would catch their interest, number one. And they’re like, heck, I want to go stay in the middle of nowhere. Right?

So the point being is understanding why people are going by your place, why they’re coming through your area and why they’re staying there. That’s. That’s really the answer to your question, Brian. And it goes back to what I kind of led with here.

It’s a different year because we’re back to normal with air quotes around it. And that normal means you have to market. And the only way you can market.

It’s the basic tenet of marketing, is you have to understand what your customer wants and provide it to them. Right.

Brian Searl

00:45:07.760 – 00:47:28.990

And this is, this is interesting to me, right, because this is a push and pull that we’re actually dealing with right now at our agency. Like, when you, when you see what. And will also die. Like, I feel like everything I’m saying here is like, watch out. Wired later.

But like, like it’s going to be a longer show and it’s meant to geared toward frank conversations. Right. Of the data and things with me and Scott and Greg.

But like, that’s part of the push and pull that we’re dealing with at our agency now is like, because I’m so good at, you know, AI, for example, like, we want to do more for our clients without charging them, typically what a, you know, like what you’re talking about an audience style guide or an ideal customer profile or focus group. Market research would traditionally cost tens of thousands of dollars to perform for a small business.

It just, that’s not something that’s ever been in reach for all but the biggest huge groups who own RV resorts. But now it is, if you know how to do it correctly. And it doesn’t mean it’s free.

It doesn’t mean you can just go to chat GBT right now, log in and produce that. But I know how to do that now. And so we have 300 and some people who are banging down my door like, I need this tomorrow.

But you’re right, like, now this stuff is more within reach, though. And you’ve got to figure out who is my ideal customer, why are they coming to me, what do they want?

And then not only that, once I understand that Then like in some ways, focus group market research, which you can do through AI. Surprisingly, even though it’s fake, Scott Barr has said it’s about 95% accurate to the data that he’s pulling from Cold Calling.

Because AI knows the whole Internet.

If you’re prompting it the right way and then taking that and creating an audience style guide to basically say, this is how I should talk to this specific type of people who are going to come to my resort. What are the words they want to hear? What are the sentences, what’s the length, what’s the readability?

What do they want to see in my website copy and my Google Ads and my Facebook and social media? There’s a real science behind it. And, and so that’s the push and pull that we’re dealing with, Mark.

And I think a lot of owners do too, because if you’re not me, and I hope nobody is, although on the other hand, I really been trying to clone myself for a few years, so that’s another push and pull there.

But so if you’re not me or really obsessed with AI and know this stuff, then you still think like, there’s no way I can ever get that stuff done because I don’t know how to do it. And even if I try to go hire somebody, it’s super expensive and I’m never going to be able to afford it. And so they don’t even try.

Mark Koep

00:47:29.930 – 00:48:38.484

Right. And when you look at where we’re going over the next few years, I mean, you, you, you’re way ahead of everybody on the AI stuff.

And I’d like to, to, I like to say that I’m trying to grab your coattails and, and ride along.

And the reality is, is that the, the transformations that are coming to the macro environment over the next year to two years will be fundamentally transformative to the entire experience people have both in their regular lives and the way they travel.

So this is actually a really important conversation for anybody who’s paying attention to this to understand that your current guests and their current expectations with, with your property are going to change drastically over the next year to two years, period. It doesn’t matter where you’re at in the United States, the way people interact with you is going to change, period.

So it really behooves owners to get in touch with their customers that they currently have and start understanding how that that changes and adapts. Because it’s here. It’s not coming. It’s here. In the last week, the changes in implementations with an AI models and Access to it. It’s so huge.

Like you can’t even overstate. You can’t overstate.

Brian Searl

00:48:38.612 – 00:48:51.476

No, like I didn’t even show you, Mark.

And I don’t want to interrupt you, I want to finish your thought but like I literally last night created a thirty thousand dollar research report with a prompt and an AI that thought for 37 minutes about it. Yeah.

Mark Koep

00:48:51.508 – 00:50:43.932

So using the new research tools with chat, I mean it’s, it’s unbelievable. And, and to that point there, there’s long, there’s bigger ramifications of that. That right there.

When you think about mid level people that are doing legal work, CPA work, bookkeeping research, and you talk about all those mid level people that make good livings, all of a sudden somebody can do a 37 minute research report off of AI tool. Today, right now. Today, last night, right, Brian, last night you did it. That replaces what you would have paid somebody 8, 10, $15,000 to do that.

The, the snowball effect of that, not just on our industry but as on the, the global macro environment for working is it’s something that there’s several rabbit holes you can go down if you try to project out. So my attitude right now is I’m not going to try to project out too far.

I’m rather going to come in closer to stuff that I can kind of see, understand and touch with a, with the idea that what I think is going to happen in a year from now is like, I don’t know, like, right. I can’t guess what’s happening here. No, I guess what’s going to happen the next month, two months, three months.

And so my advice to folks that run campgrounds is do the same thing. You’re, you’re getting bookings now.

But one of the things that everybody, I can say this universally across the campground RV park industry, the one thing nobody’s doing right now with their bookings is asking those people why they booked. And I would encourage people to start asking that question the second email that goes out after their thank you for booking email.

Hey, you know, I got a funny question for you. Why are you coming to stay at our park?

And just let them respond to you via email and tell you why they’re coming to your park and just start continuously asking that question of people as they book the information that you’re going to learn and you’re actually going to see it change over time as their responses and reasons for coming to your park change.

You’re going to start learning and from that then you can start predicting what’s going to happen next week, next month, and potentially a year down the road.

Brian Searl

00:50:44.036 – 00:52:01.600

It’s all data collection.

And now like, we’ve been, some of us have been collecting data and like Google Analytics and Google Ads and things for years and we haven’t ever had time as a human being to look at it.

But whether it’s that or aggregating all the email responses to that question, now you can use AI to actually do all this stuff and have the data mean something to you. But that, but it’s interesting. It’s more of that same push and pull though, right?

Because Angie was talking about there’s a huge amount of labor shortage in the hospitality industry and the CEO is going and changing the bed because he can’t find any other workers. So that, but that push and pull is going to be there to. Now.

Well, okay, now the CEO can not yet automate the making of the bed, although that’s probably coming in a few years. Really like two or three years, maybe less.

But now he can automate a bunch of his other tasks to like, to the point of like, he still is not going to have a smile on his face when he’s changing the bed, but maybe he can shift some of his other employees around that would be doing other things so they can make the bet.

Like, so it’s, it’s an interesting push and pull dynamic because, and it’s all hitting at once because there’s going to be these owners who want to not change the bed, but there’s also going to be a lot of workers who are like, this stuff is going to put us out of jobs. And I think both people are not evil, but both people are going to look at the other people like they might be.

Mark Koep

00:52:03.660 – 00:52:52.944

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, that’s where you start going down the rabbit hole of what’s coming. Like, Brian, you were early on this.

It was, I mean, what, two and a half, three years ago, you were really the first one to start speaking about AI. And if you remember, I was like, go for it. Like, you’re, you’re way ahead of it and I love where you’ve gone with it.

But as I’ve started to play catch up with this, like, again, there’s, there’s two models. I was telling my wife last night, we’re talking about this. So just the insight.

My son is 12 years old, he’s homeschooled, and six months ago, I completely changed his entire schooling. I basically said, AI is here. He needs to become so adept at AI. Right now at 12, that it’s not even funny. Because if we don’t do that, he’s screwed.

Like, people who don’t know what’s coming. What’s coming, Will. Kids in school today going through a normal education are completely and totally wasting their time in class.

Brian Searl

00:52:53.032 – 00:52:55.376

They are 100 screwed.

Mark Koep

00:52:55.488 – 00:53:35.918

And so that we’re talking, I’ll share what we have as a dinner conversation. I was looking at her, I said, honey, this isn’t just Internet. This isn’t just email. This is the Industrial Revolution.

This is the dust bowl, when people are going from the farms to the factories. And that this is a moment, inflection point in history and time where everything we know changes.

And the reality is I don’t know what the future holds and I don’t know how this thing plays out. But I kind of, to put it in an analogy, I simply said, you know, we either have Star wars or we have Star Trek.

And, you know, Star Trek, everybody’s friendly in the research. In Star wars, you got the good guys and the bad guys and they’re fighting it out.

Brian Searl

00:53:35.974 – 00:53:37.710

You have Wookies. What about the Wookies?

Mark Koep

00:53:37.790 – 00:54:21.948

Yeah, the Wookies are cool, right? I like the Ewoks, though. We actually just watch it over the weekend.

But the point being is that when you back it down to the hospitality business in our industry, the way things are going to change over the next year to two years, if I, and I’m advising my park owners to do this, you need to be very adaptable. You need to be very transparent and communicative with your guests.

Because that, to Angie’s point, about, you know, engaging with your guests and understanding and give them a personal. That’s what carries you through this. If they don’t know you, if you’re just a faceless, nameless provider, you’re gone.

If they know you and trust you, that’s when they’re going to come back to you.

So I guess in that whole conversation we went AI technocracy, going into a dark place or a good place, but in the end it comes back to the personal interaction.

Brian Searl

00:54:22.094 – 00:55:27.110

Yeah, that’s. That’s what it’s always going to be like. And, and to be clear, like, I mean, this is part of what we’re.

There are going to be people who don’t like me and Scott and Greg for what we’re going to talk about on Outwired, but, like, you have to keep it in context and understand that what we’re saying and what comes out of our mouth, like just now Where I said, like, where we both said that education and what you’re going through in school doesn’t matter, has, like, there’s a deeper explanation behind that. Like, of course you still need to know how to add and. Right. And you need to know how to write. And so school is still important.

But when you get past the basics and fundamentals of those things, like, what are you still memorizing stuff for? Why it doesn’t even make any sense. Why are you still learning how to sew, for example? Unless it’s like, unless it’s your hobby and you love doing it.

Why? I’m just making something up. Right.

Obviously there’s still a need to sew, but so that those things, like, they’re, they’re big and they’re impactful and like, a lot of people are asleep and. And I think that I don’t know how to. I don’t know how to get them to wake up.

Mark Koep

00:55:27.570 – 00:55:28.570

You can’t.

Angie Whitcomb

00:55:28.730 – 00:55:29.562

I just had this.

Mark Koep

00:55:29.586 – 00:55:31.150

I’m sorry, go ahead, Angie.

Angie Whitcomb

00:55:32.690 – 00:56:06.456

I just had this conversation with somebody yesterday about the way we teach, the way kids learn. We’re teaching them to learn in an antiquated way. They need to learn, to your point, science and math and all of that.

But it needs to be framed in the context of something that’s really relevant to how the world operates today. And so it’s taking that experiential learning to a whole new level.

And whether that’s a career in hospitality or, you know, some historical lesson, we just need to let them learn it in a way that matter, that’s applicable in the real world.

Brian Searl

00:56:06.700 – 00:58:26.130

Right. And this is like, this is what, you know, we’ve been talking about this, like, at our, at our company, like, how do we adapt this? Right.

And then you also hear the people on YouTube, mostly in my space, in the AI tech space, who are paying attention to this stuff, but you’ll hear them say, like, I don’t know, what. What are these kids supposed to learn? What are they, what are they supposed to educate themselves for? What are they going to college for?

Nobody knows. Yes, you do know. The problem is, is that you yourself, including me, when I went to school, were never taught how to figure it out.

And the answer is, is if you go back to.

We, and we had this discussion at our company, we’re going to retrain everybody who works at our company and every new hire, and we’re going to teach them like the ancient Romans did. And if you look back at how the ancient Romans did, there was two types of methodologies to teach people there.

The slave in ancient Rome would learn a skill. And that’s how western education was formed. Not just in the United States.

How Western education was formed, generally speaking, because you needed to get people off the farm and into the factory and into the assembly line.

And nobody sane wanted to leave their nice little happy farm with all their cows and green space to go into a factory floor and breathe in all the dust and stuff and work on an assembly line. And so we created school to sit in neat little rows and to raise your hand and say, yes I am, and do things exactly the way you were told.

Because when you got out of school, you had to go to the factory and there was no room for error back in 1910 to do it the way you thought it should be done. And that has never changed in the last hundred plus years.

Whereas if you were a free person in Rome, you were taught how to teach yourself, you were taught critical thinking because the government of Rome and you had no clue what you were going to do in your life. So the hope was, is to teach you how to teach yourself, to teach you how to learn so that when you got out of school, you would figure it out.

And if you decided to be a blacksmith, the hope was you would decide to be something that would benefit all of Roman society. But when you figured out what you wanted to do, you had the skills to teach yourself to become a blacksmith. But we don’t have that now.

And that’s the two most important things to teach your kids right now. Critical thinking so that you understand how to learn the new things, ask the right questions, figure it out, and communication.

If you have those two things, you can do anything you want.

Mark Koep

00:58:26.510 – 00:59:25.770

Agree? Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s really well, really well put, Brian. And I completely agree with you on that.

And I would, I would argue a little bit that we actually do have that tool a little bit if you’re a free thinker enough.

It’s like when I mentioned that we changed my son’s education, we’re leaning upon videos on YouTube so we’re getting him to people who are discussing stuff like this at that level and then also doing tutorials and everything else. So we’re, we’re kind of going to that route where, you know, for, I’ll give you a.

For example, last week I sent him a video and it was an interview as an hour and 20 minute interview of a 17 year old kid who built an app and he’s making a million bucks a month and the reason I shared it wasn’t so much that he built an app or he made a million dollars a month, but he was sharing his thought processes, his procedures, the way he looked at the world.

And so, you know, the hope is, is that teaching my son the way this person who’s at a young age, succeeded, thinks about the world, that he would glean that. Wait a second. What I’m learning in school doesn’t fit. I actually need to think a little bit outside the box.

Brian Searl

00:59:26.430 – 01:00:13.070

Yeah. And they just. And it’s not that people are incapable of this. Like, I’m not suggesting some people are worse than others.

It’s just that you were never taught this in school. So how are you supposed to teach it to your kids? How are you supposed to learn how to teach it to your kids? Right. Like, I think a lot.

There are, of course, there are some people, maybe like 5% in the whole world who are incapable of thinking this way, But I think 95% of people are. They just have no idea where to start or how to do it.

And that’s why you see so many people come out of college who learn one thing in college and train themselves on new computer programs and things, but aren’t really learning, if that makes sense. And it’s not by their own fault. Sometimes it is. But, like, there’s things I don’t want to learn how to do. Right. I don’t want to clean my house. But.

But just as an example. Right. I just don’t think they know how.

Mark Koep

01:00:13.700 – 01:00:14.480

Yeah.

Brian Searl

01:00:15.220 – 01:00:17.000

So I don’t know how to solve that problem.

Mark Koep

01:00:17.700 – 01:00:56.670

I think time, time, time and outcome. You know, the way the conversation ended last night with my wife that I shared with you all is, you know, we can. We can’t answer it on our own.

All we can do is control ourselves in our own actions. Right. We can. That’s all we have control over. And in the end, this is going to go wherever it goes and how fast it goes.

But, you know, I mentioned to her, I said, this is actually a moment in time here where there’s real opportunity for somebody. People.

Like, there’s real opportunity here because there’s a. A giant gap right now between those who know and those who don’t. And the amount of people who know is very, very small.

And the people that don’t are down here. The people that. And when I say down here, I’m not saying better or worse. I’m just saying different scales.

Brian Searl

01:00:56.750 – 01:00:57.950

How dare you, Mark.

Mark Koep

01:00:58.070 – 01:01:11.352

Yeah, but the people that don’t know have the capital and the ability, the willingness to pay somebody who does to help them out. So there’s a real arbitrage there.

And I would just encourage people to really dive deep on this content because it’s going to change the world and it’s actually doing it right now.

Brian Searl

01:01:11.456 – 01:02:49.990

And that’s the thing is that then it goes back to this full circle problem that we’re in. And I know we need to wrap up in a second especially because I have another show in 58 minutes now.

But like it goes back to this whole existential problem of like I’m changing the sheets in the hotel. As a CEO, how do you expect me to have time to keep up with this stuff and learn it? And I don’t have an answer for that. I really truly don’t.

And I have empathy for it and I’m not suggesting like it’s just as easy as it just came out of my mouth to go do but like go to chat GPT. I mean if you like for one, go to chat GPT.

If you haven’t been on ChatGPT, I’ll get down on my knees and beg you go to chat GPT, but go to chat GPT, figure out what it is and say, hey, I’m a busy CEO of a hospitality company and I can’t find enough workers to change my sheets. One, how do I solve that problem? And I’m not suggesting there’s an easy answer there, but at least there’s a starting process.

And he probably already knows, right, as the CEO. But then two is like I want to learn how to prepare my business for the future.

And to do that I know I need to learn how to critical think and teach myself new skills but like I have no time. It’s like it’s a struggle.

I’m going, I’m working two jobs or I’m coming home and taking care of my kids or cooking dinner for my spouse or running the kids to hockey practice or dealing with the guest that’s complaining of the WI fi doesn’t work or whatever. Right? How do I do it and see what it says?

It’s not going to be a magic bullet, but it’s going to have a pretty good answer for you if you ask it the right question. And that’s the best I think we can do for now. Right?

Angie Whitcomb

01:02:51.090 – 01:02:52.122

Sound advice.

Mark Koep

01:02:52.266 – 01:02:53.870

It’s been a good show, Brian.

Brian Searl

01:02:54.370 – 01:03:49.786

Yeah, I don’t know like apparently there’s a number in my top of my screen that like nobody really belief like left off when we started talking about controversial things but if you’re interested in those controversial topics. Outwired. Our new podcast with myself, Scott Barr and Greg emmert starts in 46 minutes and 45 seconds. Wow, my math was so good at the counter there.

And, and we’re going to be talking about things like we’re going to dive deep into AI, into operator, into all the techy geeky things, but we’re also going to talk about data and all kinds of things. We might have a little bit of whiskey just to dull the pain for everybody involved in it, but it’s going to be an interesting show.

I’m interested in it. We’ll see how many people hate me after week one and if I get canceled or not. So. But thank you guys for joining us. I appreciate it as always.

Mark, where can they find out more about campground views right now? Oh yeah, your virtual tours. Like where can they find out more about.

Mark Koep

01:03:49.938 – 01:04:07.076

Oh, where can they find out? They can find it on campgroundviews.com in fact, if you own a campground or RV park, make sure you’ve claimed your listing over there.

We’re getting a lot of traffic now. You really want to make sure that you’re properly listed over there. It’s free to update that information.

So go over there, post pictures, claim your listing, make sure you’re good.

Brian Searl

01:04:07.228 – 01:04:17.880

Awesome.

Thanks for being here as always, Mark and Angie, where can they find out about if they’re in Minnesota or generally speaking, if they just want to follow the trends, how do they find out more about hospitality Minnesota, joining, becoming a member, that kind of stuff?

Angie Whitcomb

01:04:18.700 – 01:04:33.620

You can find us at hospitalitymn.com and you’ll find all of our advocacy issues, all of our map of all of our properties across the state and we’d love to answer and take calls from anyone.

Brian Searl

01:04:35.400 – 01:04:54.370

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here, Angie.

I really appreciate your time and the few minutes that you went over with us and for tolerating our weird discussion at the end there.

But you know, we’ll see you next week on another episode and then don’t forget to tune in for Outwired tonight, but next week another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Really appreciate you guys all being here. And we’ll see you next week.