MC Fireside Chats – February 14th, 2024

This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show featuring conversations with thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and outdoor hospitality experts who share their insights to help your business succeed. Hosted by Brian Searle, the founder and CEO of Insider Perks, empowered by insights from modern Campground, the most innovative news source in the industry.

Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Cyril with [00:01:00] Insider Perks sitting outside. ’cause for the last two weeks I had to sit inside, so I decided I’m coming out here. It’s outdoor hospitality. It’s negative 10 degrees Celsius in Calgary, pretty cold and windy. So hopefully I won’t have to talk much and you won’t hear the wind going into my mic.

But super excited to be here for a recurring glamping episode. Welcoming back some of our recurring guests both old and new. So Zach from Clockwork. We’ll have all you guys introduce yourselves very briefly in a second. Tell us about what you do because that from Clockwork is back from a trip into The Bahamas, which hopefully he’ll tell us a little bit about.

Maybe Chris is back, one of our recurring guests from Colorado, right? Chris? Still terribly sad that I had to give away your wine at TSA, but I don’t know. I apologize for that. 

Chris Jeub: I’m terribly sad about that too. 

Brian Searl: I tried to drink it, man. Like we had to go anyway, whatever. Okay and then welcome a couple new recurring guests, Alessandro and Stephanie.

And then we have another recurring guest who’s gonna join us next week too. She just was on a flight at this current time. And then we’ve got our special guest here, Chelsi. And Yves. And let’s just go around the room and maybe introduce everybody. Just give a brief bio of who you guys are. [00:02:00] Who wants to start?

Nobody. Oh, I’ll start. 

Chris Jeub: I’ll start. Okay. I’m Chris Jub. I call myself the glamping guy online Glampingguy.com. I help landowners build safe, legal, and profitable glamping operations in their private property. I own and operate Monument Glamping here in Monument, Colorado. And we have two properties 12 units we’re in.

We’re in review for up to thirty-four units coming this summer. Can’t wait. So that’s me. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thank you. Chris. Who’s next? Let’s next. Alright, there we go. I was gonna say, let’s do the recurring guest anyway. So go ahead, Stephanie. 

Stephanie Bias: Okay. So I’m Stephanie. I am the communications director at Canberra.

We are in Illinois at 90 minutes, Southwest of Chicago. Near Starbrook State Park, if you’ve heard of that State park before. We have 11 units and I figured out how to get my background with our units there. So we have 10, and I’m excited to be here. Thank you. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for joining us. [00:03:00] Alessandro, you wanna go?

Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, sure. I’m Alessandro van de Loo from the Netherlands, or at least I’m based in the Netherlands. We have a family business operating nine glamping locations. Eight of them are in Italy, one is in the Netherlands. So I’m doing it with my father and my brother. And don’t know how much you know about European glamping scene, but there are quite some big chains, building very big resorts at the moment.

And we try to offer like smaller destinations and be boutique style player. And yeah, we are building that at the moment. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. I’m excited to talk to you a little bit more about that and to have you thank you for being here as a recurring guest. I know a little bit about, I’d say the European clamping market from the guests on the show, but I think the goal of having you here is to help us all learn a little bit more about that and then share information where we can.

So Zach, 

Zach Stoltenberg: Zach Stoltenberg. I’m the director of Outdoor Hospitality for Clockwork. I’m a licensed architect and our firm has been working in the outdoor hospitality industry for [00:04:00] about the last three years. And we partner with landowners, with developers, entrepreneurs, really anybody that wants to build or develop a clamping site.

And we as architects, we specialize in the design, the master planning and then the permitting and approval side to, to get through kinda your planning and zoning process and get a budget put together. And build your resort. So that’s what we do. We help people build glamping resorts. 

Brian Searl: All over too. I wanna talk about The Bahamas and all that kind of stuff, but yeah, definitely a good person to have on the show. Thanks for being here. Zach, as always. Chelsi, let’s see if I can pronounce this right. Aefintyr? 

Chelsi Low: Yes. 

Brian Searl: All right. 

Chelsi Low: Thank you. Brian. 

Brian Searl: Tell us who, one of our special guests here. 

Chelsi Low: My name is Chelsi Low and I own and operate Aefintyr, a small glamping operation in southeastern Minnesota.

Our main, kind of main attraction is the Driftless area and Whitewater State [00:05:00] Park which is well known in the region here. I have 11 units and my specialty is treehouse camper cabins, and then hike in glamping. That is very rustic for folks who are looking for a little bit more rugged experience.

I have some bell tents and then also some outdoor beds that I hand built that have clear roofs on them and screens. You can really get a good night’s sleep with the experience of sleeping outside. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. I can’t, 

Chelsi Low: and I’ve been working on this since 2019 and just opened my doors actually Memorial Day weekend this last year. So just getting up and running. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. I can’t wait to learn more about Aefintyr and kinda that journey would be interesting, I think to dive into a little bit too. Yves. 

Yves Ballenegger: I’m Yves from Groovy Yurts, founder of Groovy Yurts. We import authentic Mongolian Yurts since 2003, so it’s been 20 years last year.

We have a couple of yurts on our own, but our specialty is really the sale and the delivery. We also helped set up of those authentic beauties. One here, [00:06:00] one right here as well. This miniature and this. 

Brian Searl: Are they, oh, I was gonna ask if they were actually that big, but go ahead. Sorry.

Yves Ballenegger: There’s one, but they go up to 40 feet and most traditionally bit between I’d say around 20 feet are the most traditional and the most efficient. Passion for Mongolia, passion for those yurts, and this where we’re trying to bring to our customers across North America, which we do with our own vehicles. So we’re nomads too. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Super excited to dive into what Groovy Yurts has to offer. So I think we’ll start with Yves and Chelsi in a second. But before we do guys, recurring guests, is there anything that has come across your desk that you feel like we should be paying attention to or talking about here before we dive into our special guests and the glamping industry as a whole?

No, everybody’s so quiet today. All right. Let’s start with let’s start with Yves at Groovy Yurts since we were just talking to him. So tell us tell us a little about Groovy Yurt. Yves. 

Yves Ballenegger: Thank you. We, we are possibly the [00:07:00] happiest yurt salesmen on Earth. And and have been and there’s a few reasons for that.

The number one reason is we’re lucky to work with these Mongolian manufacturers in Mongolia. We’re trying to source our products mostly on the countryside. And the other reason is that we’re the direct link between them and the, and our customers. We I’m a trucker by passion and trade.

We’ve got a couple vehicles on the road and a few times a year we go on those epic delivery tours. We would, we’re based in Canada, in Alexandria, so that’s close to Montreal between Montreal and Ottawa. And we crossed the continent. We would go all the way to Alaska Crossing Canada, then down to California and come back trying to really group those orders and to bring this service and this love of yurts to our customers helping them set up.

And so that’s what we do. We’re a small team of about 10, 12 people here. That’s of [00:08:00] course not counting the very extended family of our Mongolian suppliers in Mongolia who are all independent. Yurts, Mongolian, yurts. There’s A, I don’t know. How are you guys familiar with Mongolian Yurts?

Brian Searl: No, that’s what I was gonna ask you and to our recurring guests into the new ones. Please feel free to jump in, ask questions, talk to whoever we’re talking to. Just so I have to talk less, and then the audience is more interested, but I was gonna ask you like, what is the difference? What sets Mongolian-built yurts apart?

Yves Ballenegger: A lot of things. The main characteristic is that this dwelling has been shaped over thousands of years. And rarely will you find a dwelling that’s so efficient and that really combines efficiency very interesting traditions, respect of the environment. And so Mongolian yurts are used by nomads in a climate that’s actually very dry.

So we did have to accommodate more humid climates, something that we are [00:09:00] very comfortable with now. The, and I would, I can maybe compare the Mongolian yurt with the modern yurts that you might know and far from me, from criticizing modern yurts, but really showing the pros and cons.

The you will see the Mongolian yurt is usually a little lower, and this is the result of thousands of years of very slow, fine-tuning by this extreme weather of Mongolia, which is stuck between China and Russia. Extremely cold in the winter minus 40 due at this time. And that can last for weeks.

It’s quite warm in the summer. Very strong winds in the grasslands. This gave this very aerodynamic shape. And what’s interesting is that there’s not only a whole technique that came out of this very slow development, but it’s also connected to the Mongolian traditions.

These nomads are phenomenal. They might be one of the most advanced culture on the planet, depending [00:10:00] how you look at it, but they live in harmony with nature without, instead of imposing on it. So the yurt is actually not anchored to the ground, not to harm the earth first. Symbolic an interesting one.

So that shows how aerodynamic the structure is. There’s ways to anchor it. Additionally, but still this compact also helps to keep this dwelling warm in winter. So in the midst of the winter when it’s very cold they don’t have any wood. Usually there’s very little.

Which is actually dried dung. And that works. So the yurt is also very well insulated. It’s insulated with felt sheep, wool, and a beautiful felt. That’s actually yeah, a hundred percent sheep wool. So a hundred percent sustainable. It’ll decompose. So this entire structure will actually go back to the ground.

If it’s unused, however, use it. If you maintain, it’ll last forever. [00:11:00] And with this new concept of being able to fix something so you can constantly upgrade the yurt if necessary. We carry spare parts, but actually our customers often even built their own if needed, not that they need so, so often.

So and quickly back to those Mongolian traditions that are interesting, and it’s also something that our customers should there be glampers or or dwellers like. Is you step in a Mongolian, yurt or ger, which is the name in Mongolia, and you’re somewhere else. So just one step right foot first you’re propelled on the other side of the planet in a dwelling that’s a little bit like a womb.

It’s very colorful. You might see from afar it’s all hand painted. Like those. Stools that I have behind you will see the same patterns or none. Now we also make unpainted yurts. So you I’ll guide you in. You’ll step right foot first into this yurt, and you’ll go you’ll go [00:12:00] clockwise inside.

You’ll follow the sun that’s shining into the yurt during the course of the day from the very large dome that they have, huh, on, on top. Then you’ll notice that the Mongolians will sit you to the north because all direction, cardinal direction have their importance and very close to North American culture native cultures.

So they actually believe they’re cousins. Then you start noticing, oh, the lattice wood is attached with camel rawhide. The ropes are made of horsehair. You can’t see the felt because it’s hidden by the, a liner of cotton. But it’s it’s sheeple and so the sound is is damped in that yurt.

It’s giving it a very comfortable feel. Now it’s not only comfortable just for the sound of it, but it’s super easy to keep warm in winter. Yes, you have to bend to enter the yurt. I’m six five. As soon as I do a step inside pop, I’ve got enough headroom. So it’s much more spacious than it looks.

And [00:13:00] then the same insulation will work in the summer. So there’s a polycarbon cover that we use here in North America on top of the felt. We add a another layer of house wrap for moisture. So this insulation will stop the sunstroke and so you won’t cook in your yurt during the summer, and you will lift the side of the dwelling, creating a natural drop.

Remember, the yurt is not anchored, so you can actually lift those sites. So it’s actually air conditioning and has been for thousands of years. So it’s fascinating how an ancient concept can actually be used and be almost more efficient than their modern countertops. 

Brian Searl: So Let me ask you this Zachary architecture experience, experiential expert.

What comes to mind when you hear all about these? 

Zach Stoltenberg: I’m intrigued to know have you had any of these traditional units evaluated [00:14:00] from like an R value perspective? One thing that we’ve run into. Recently, especially in some of those northern state climates, is states that are enforcing requirements for energy co energy code.

So being able to come back and say, Hey, this assembly, this horn, this particular unit that we’ve chosen, this is the equivalent of our value of these walls to meet compliance with a local requirement regulation. 

Yves Ballenegger: So it’s an excellent question. And yeah, let me actually just grab a piece of felt here.

Brian Searl: This guy is prepared. Have you ever seen anybody as prepared for our show? 

Zach Stoltenberg: I’m just, 

Stephanie Bias: I love all the experience. 

Yves Ballenegger: I’m in my office, so of course I’ve got everything. 

Zach Stoltenberg: I hundred percent believe him now, and he says he’s the happiest yurt salesman in the world. 

Yves Ballenegger: And I can get you a yurt out of the warehouse.

That’s a barn just next to it. Got about 50 of them. So if you need anything, just ask. So here are two layers of felt. So that felt, although it’s an excellent insulator, is only something like, I think [00:15:00] three point I’ll have to check, I should have been more prepared. 3.5 r, 3.5 an inch. So it’s good, but we only can, we can only put in the current structure up to three layers that say to insulate.

So you won’t get to these these R values that are requested by some of those municipalities. The R-value, however, doesn’t take in account, and correct me, Zach, if I’m wrong, doesn’t take the in account the volume. Here we have, actually, this one of course is quite small, but you can estimate the size, you can look.

This one is about 20 feet in diameter and this is the most common in Mongolia 16, 20, up to twenty-two feet max. We sell larger, but we promote those. Why? Because it’s a very compact volume with still a very decent insulation. So to keep this warm, it doesn’t take much. And so no, we can’t reach those values.

[00:16:00] Some municipalities are actually or building inspectors, are actually open to this concept and understand that actually. Even though we don’t have that, our value, we’re using way less energy to keep this warm or cool. We’re actually also working on a kind of a hybrid year It’s that should keep most of the, of these ancient qualities while being able to respond to those requests.

But that’s not gonna be on the market before I think a year or probably a year and a half. 

Brian Searl: That answer your question, Zach or I don’t really know too much about our value, so 

Zach Stoltenberg: I think the key with a unique structure like this is just what, what was described, you have to look at this as a whole the entire unit.

And there’s some provisions in code now that are starting to evolve more that direction. Taking the entirety of the structure and looking at what are what’s your total energy usage? What is the lighting? What is the HVAC? [00:17:00] Our value is one component of it, but it’s only one small piece of that component.

There’s also additional requirements for continuous insulation. So one of the things I think is really cool about the traditional structures is that the entirety of the outside is one, complete envelope. You, the only opening you have is your door and even that door. As was mentioned, it’s a lower, smaller door, right to keep more of that energy inside.

And then the only natural lighting that’s coming in is through that kind of Oculus skylight at the top. So I think there’s, looking at it from the whole big picture it’s interesting that there, there are those components and like I said, this has evolved over thousands of years to be energy efficient.

It’s just a matter of being able to package that document it and prove it, to a building inspector or a local jurisdiction or official that, you know, hey, if you’re just looking at a number on a page, yeah we’re gonna be an r value of seven or eight and your code may be, 19, we’re not gonna get there.[00:18:00] 

But if you look at the whole big picture of it that, this is still a very efficient structure. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Anybody else have any questions for Yves? We’re gonna come back to him in a few minutes, but All right. Let’s go to Chelsi at Aefintyr. Chelsi, you’re up north there. Tell us a little bit about Aventere and then at some point tell us if you would be interested in people hiking to in Mongolian Dirt maze, but not the first Sure.

Not the first thing. Let’s talk about F Tier version. 

Chelsi Low: Yeah. So Aefintyr, as I mentioned it is in the geography is in the Driftless area. And for folks that are from Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin and Illinois, it is a, it’s a beautiful area. Lots of hills river valleys. We have, great opportunities, of course, for the typical, wildlife, wildflowers, nature, observing, things like that.

Trout, but trout fishing is a huge thing as well. We got a lot of spring fed streams and rivers. So that’s a hot item for recreation. The area also does [00:19:00] not have mosquitoes near at, near the rate that we do in a lot of other areas in the region. 

Brian Searl: I thought you were gonna say you didn’t have it at all. And I was like, why are you not marketing that everywhere? 

Chelsi Low: Ooh I never wear bug spray when I’m out working and I’m out in the woods all the time. And people will come and visit me especially from like North Central Minnesota where the mosquitoes are like, we joke, it’s the state bird here.

And they’re like, wow. It really is true. What people say about, the Driftless region with the mosquitoes. That’s huge as well. I think it just the people’s comfort being outdoors and not having to worry about the bug spray and swatting the bugs is a big draw too. And hunting is huge as well.

Deer hunting and Turkey hunting in particular, I. And so the campground again I have been working on this project since 2019. I built it from the ground up. It was a raw piece of land. It’s 14 acres. So I had a lot of lessons learned in the development, getting all of the permits going through that whole process.

I had extra fun with it because it’s actually on two different [00:20:00] parcels, and one of them is in a city jurisdiction, and then the other part is in a county. So it was like everything I. I had to ask twice. So in the covid you throw covid in there. Anyway, it was just such a relief to get through all of that.

I was inspired to do this because of wilderness and nature trips that I took as a kid and just falling in love with that area. I live in Rochester, Whitewater’s about 30 minutes, and it’s just such a relaxing, beautiful place that I enjoyed going as a child. And I was inspired to do something other than the typical RV resorts that they have, where it’s just, it’s like a parking lot with the mode lawn.

Everybody’s smashed in there and the party scene. Not everybody wants that, and there’s not really an outlet I guess for that. So I really wanted to try to take that idea of, I wanna have a place where people who not that they don’t wanna have a good time, but they’re really looking to just get out in the woods.

Be in nature, connect with friends and [00:21:00] family have a quiet place, and then be able to go out and experience all of the great things that are in the area. So my clients, they are they’re rugged independent people. I don’t get a lot of complaints. They like to take care of themselves.

And I’ve divided things into two categories. I have three little treehouse cabins. Two of them I actually, I’m finishing the construction on and I hope they’re up and running here probably by the end of March. So I have that’s approachable. People can drive up. I.

Get their stuff out. And then park. The other piece is the hike in glamping, which is a concept that I had to really develop the last two years to decide what I was going to do with it. And I still am not committed to structures, so who knows? We could certainly look at Mongolian Yurts.

I’m really exploring kind of what else I should do as far as some of the structures. And I would like to get on a rotation so that it changes. But it’s meant to give people a little bit of a flavor of a wilderness experience. So you need a backpack. You can’t bring your little dot cart or anything.

It’s not gonna work [00:22:00] on the trail. It’s about a quarter mile up to the top of the bluff. And then people have a the tent or the outdoor bed. I provide linens towels if they wanna use the bath house for a shower mattresses. But it’s still very basic. It’s meant to provide that authentic camping experience.

So I, I don’t have climate control. People still feel the temperature changes throughout the day. They can hear the nature outside, the coyotes, the birds through the tent or the beds. So it’s definitely I had to even really get to the bottom of, is this.

Glamping or not. And I did, I committed to the word glamping because I do have those creature comfort comforts for provided, but it’s on the very rustic side of glamping. So that’s the clients that I’m trying to serve and what I’m trying to do my next steps, I really wanna look at the experience and how I can partner with like trout fishing guides people that have expertise in some of the recreation opportunities there.

And then I’m also really interested in art. So I’ve tried to connect I had an artist come out [00:23:00] this last summer. She has a business called Paint and Hike, and she takes people outdoors and has a whole method for how you can do painting while you’re out outside in the woods. And so I wanna get experiences like that for people.

So that’s kind of Aefintyr in a nutshell, and I guess where I’m at in the vision for the future. 

Brian Searl: So I’m curious if nobody else has any questions. 

Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, I think if I may, I think it’s really nice what you’re saying about asking yourself the question is glamping or not?

Because in, in Europe we have been asked a lot of times as we used to own a tour operator like OTA. It was quite big in Glimping holidays. So a lot of people are asking us like, what’s the definition of glimping? And it’s a very hard question to answer. And I was like, checking your website a couple of minutes ago and before you said that.

And I was like, really? Wow, this really gives the right vibe of what I personally think is like really matching this name. But I’m, yeah, I really like to hear that in, in the [00:24:00] States it’s like the same type of. Of questions that we have in Europe, actually. Yeah. We have no idea what, it’s interesting.

Yeah. Even here there’s no idea, like it’s just a label. You like put on it. And at the end we believe it’s the customers who finally will judge the success or the not success of any initiative. 

Chelsi Low: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of wisdom in that, and I have really tried to get a lot of feedback.

That’s been a lot of fun. Now having a full year under my belt with it is seeing what people like. My, the Treehouse cabins are, by far the highest occupancy. I haven’t really done much with marketing other than the online travel options that are out there, and then that, that really is a mix too.

It’s the line between what is vacation rental and what’s not, but I’ve definitely, I’ve probably about 50% I think of my bookings were direct, which was super cool. Just through my website, and then Airbnb is my next biggest one. And Hip Camp vrbo depending on the unit, I can’t, the cabins I’ll list on vrbo, but the rest of the property [00:25:00] isn’t appropriate for that platform.

So I’ve just really been trying to put myself out there and see, how I’m, who I’m capturing through those channels. But. Yeah, it was, I think going with the glamping was a good choice, to label myself that way, but I try to be very forward with people about, this is a rugged experience, it’s very, your creature comforts will be met.

I’m all about customer service and providing the essentials, but it takes physical effort, to get up to the site. And I have had people that have gotten up there and it was just too much for them. They’re like, this is wilder than I thought it was going to be. And I, it’s just gonna be too much.

So I’ve changed my the way I’ve described things a little bit, and I think I have a better way that I’m presenting it to the public. So they get there and I’m capturing the right people and they’re excited to be there and not like overwhelmed when they arrive. 

Zach Stoltenberg: I wanted to ask hit on one thing that you said earlier, in this, you’ve got a year under your belt, you’re in this transitionary period, [00:26:00] and you’re it sounds like you’re shifting your focus from the accommodations piece into experience, into building those guest experiences, whether that’s, the painting piece or hiking or can you talk a little bit more about that, how that’s come about?

What are your thoughts as an operator on what how important is the experience component to it? 

Chelsi Low: Yeah, for I, for the folks that have that, I’ve been reaching, who I would consider to be my a picture of my typical guests. I think I, I had it in my mind initially that it was going to be critical that I had lots of activities and things for people to do.

And I actually found that one thing that was so fascinating to me was I had a lot of solo people that came and men, women people of, early twenties, all up the way into seventies. It was quite an age range too. And people just wanting peace [00:27:00] and quiet, they’d be like, Chelsi, I just need to get away.

Like I, I need to get away from technology. I just need a place to be and to think and be in the woods. And so I tried to really listen to that. And I have a couple guests. I ask them if I could interview them, and I will at some point. Get with them. And I just really wanna kind of dive into that.

So I think maybe it was less important than what I was thinking. I think it, it was actually okay that people could just come there and be there. And so then I don’t know if it’s more of I don’t know if anybody’s heard the term like a Hermitage, which is like a place where people go alone to be alone and to do reflection and things like that.

So I think there could be some opportunity there. I do have other groups, the as far as like the art classes go, or like people that are looking to go with a experienced trout fisher person, out on the beautiful Whitewater River. I would love to get into, I love to kayak.

And float down the river in tubes. So I would love to be able to provide opportunities like that for people. And I think that [00:28:00] I just, I need to collect a little bit more data. Some of those services are already offered, so if I can’t do something that’s just spectacularly different, to differentiate myself, I need to pick the ones that maybe people aren’t offering yet.

But I, overall, I would say that I’m not as concerned about that being a draw for guests. I think it’s more for me just looking for additional revenue streams because I don’t have and developing the business, I do want to have di more options for people, if you will.

Not that they have to do those things. But I cannot grow the business anymore. The way that the topography and everything of the land is, if I am going to grow the business, I will need to find another location to add to the portfolio. 

Stephanie Bias: And what are your guests currently doing for meals? Are they cooking them on site or what does that look like?

Chelsi Low: Yeah, great question, Stephanie. ’cause that was another thing too. You hear about the ha having food on site and stuff. They are bringing their own food. I am investing in providing more like cooking type [00:29:00] amenities. So I do have a couple propane grills that are easily accessible.

I don’t have them at each site. But I do, I’ve got one up on the bluff top, and then I have one of ’em down at the base area, if you will, where the little cabins are. So people definitely utilize the grills. I have a, like a skillet and grill. At each camp site. That’s something kind of new.

This year I got a lot of people asking about having private a space to cook over the campfire. So going to be investing there ’cause I know people are looking at that, but they are still bringing their own food. Coolers are a big problem for me because coolers are not very backpack friendly.

I have people that are really into gear and stuff. I’ve seen some really cool backpack coolers. But for my folks that I don’t wanna turn away somebody that wants to do the experience and maybe they haven’t been backpacking and don’t have gear, that’s part of, I wanna be able to help people that haven’t had that experience, have that experience.

Working through that, there is, there’s a restaurant and then actually two [00:30:00] bars that are within a mile of the campground. So it is very easy for people to act if they wanna like order out pizza or go for burgers or something like that. There is food very readily available. Just down the road.

And I’m also three miles from a winery too, which is cool. 

Stephanie Bias: Oh, nice. 

Brian Searl: That’s what I need is the pizza place. Like I can survive. I know how to do the fire with the flint and steel and all that kind. I can build a shelter, but I need my pizza. Yeah, you all that. And I just need to go to the pizza restaurant, come back and I’m fine.

Chris Jeub: Chelsi, this is really encouraging. You are crushing it out there. 

Chelsi Low: Oh, thank you Chris. I’m gonna, I just feel like I’m figuring things out right now. 

Chris Jeub: But yeah, you are you’re going in your second year, right? So I’m going in my sixth year. So you remind me of a lot.

A lot of the lot of my first year boy, I was just, it was awesome. You’re doing 50% direct bookings is incredible. And that’s Yeah, 

Chelsi Low: I was surprised by that, honestly. And I’m not marketing and getting out there and selling myself is not my strength. I could definitely use help in that area.

Chris Jeub: Yeah. I would say [00:31:00] most of us and the, who are the beginner accommodations offers. We dream to get off of Airbnb and Verbo and all those, but direct and I’ll be all direct bookings. So 50 percent’s really good. I’d encourage you if you’re open to a couple of ideas, ’cause these are things I kinda learned 

Chelsi Low: Absolutely.

Chris Jeub: After my first year is the whole idea. Absolutely. Those amenities that you charge for really bring in a lot of revenue and you could provide, I, this is what I do. I provide grills to each of my units. But then I charge for the propane. So thirty-five dollars for propane service is what I give.

And it costs about $15 to fill a propane tank. And I just service the propane when they pay the thirty-five dollars. Having a, getting a professional photographer out there to actually spend the night and take the pictures of the sun going down or sun rising and things like that.

Getting that nice, the people that have those $2,000 cameras that can take these popping awesome photos would that sells the place. That’s something that I, it took me about a year or two to figure out, and then I did guided hikes for a while. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

You, you mentioned the tubing and stuff. 

Yves Ballenegger: The tubing. Yeah, the tubing. You said [00:32:00] the tubing, 

Chris Jeub: the minutes old next. It just started coming outta me, but I did guided hikes. I’m really close to Pike National Forest and I don’t do it anymore, just ’cause it. It’s time consuming, but at the early days I did it and it was really fun to really connect with the people.

Zach said, an experiential stay. They just feel like they got the red carpet rolled out for ’em and I would get to know ’em. And so we would take, I would take my dog for a walk and we would just walk and talk and just get to know each other while we walked Pike National Forest for a little bit.

And and that was really good. And then I charge ’em, charge ’em 50 bucks. And they were always pleased. So those are some, so those are some ideas. It’s, but you’re encouraging to see just budding it out of year one and this is awesome. Chelsi.

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, to 

Chelsi Low: Thanks for that, Chris. Yes. Thank you for those suggestions. And I agree on the photos. I just need to bite the bullet and spend the money. I got a lot of great photographers. I know. And, 

Chris Jeub: yeah hip camp actually offers a kind of a photography offer. And I’ve actually invited my hip camp photographer, that was, it started with, every year I [00:33:00] take professional photos that the, I invite the photographer here.

She spends the night, she brings her kids are the models for it. And then I just get those popping great photos. And the rest of the year I take ’em with my cell phone, so like when a development comes or I offer a new amenity, I’ll just do the best I can with my cell phone. But then I upgrade it every year with that professional and she’s 300 bucks.

And then I give her a tip, so she keeps coming back. 

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, to build on that too. Chelsi you talked about a couple of those, excursions or activities, right? That there’s already, operators in your area that are doing kayaking and tubing. One suggestion I would make is that I don’t think you have to reinvent yourself or do something different.

Several different operators that we’ve worked with on the designs, they’ve said, Hey, we have all this stuff in the area. So I think if you have. Fishing guides, if you have a kayak or tubing operation [00:34:00] that’s nearby I would look for opportunities just to partner with them.

See if they would offer a referral or a finder’s fee where it’s something that you could make available to your guests. Put it on your website. Hey, if you want to book a kayak trip here’s the link to do and it just links out to that operator’s website, they book with them.

But for every one of those referrals that comes from that unique. For that. So you brought the guests there, you connected them with the experience. They’re gonna go and it’s gonna be facilitated by that third party operator. But there’s value, there’s additional revenue that you can create through partnerships and that’s a way to, get some money flowing back in some additional revenue for you based on what you’ve built and what you’re bringing to that area without being something that you necessarily have to facilitate or invest in.

The same with restaurants. I, if you’ve [00:35:00] got two, three restaurants that, that you mentioned go and talk to ’em and say, you know what? I wanna put one of your menus in each of my tents and I’d love it if you’d give me a coupon for 10% off for my guests if they come and they eat at your place.

And, or maybe even create your own little coupon or something so that they have a way to track it. So you come back, say, let’s try it for three months, and you come in at the end of three months and they’ve got 40 tickets stacked up. They know that, you’ve brought that many people into their business.

And so maybe you work out again, some sort of a referral, some kind of a bonus or a credit or something on the back. And so there, there’s ways to make revenue and create those additional revenue streams outside of, having to do something yourself. 

Stephanie Bias: That’s a great point, Zach. That’s been really successful for us at Camp Aramoni too. We’re in a pretty, I don’t wanna say touristy area, but within nearby state park there are a lot of [00:36:00] different businesses offering different activities, kayaking, whitewater rafting, believe it or not. So I, yeah, I would really agree with Zach that you should reach out to these people and talk about that finder’s fee.

Chris Jeub: In fact, if I could add on to the add-on getting involved with the Chamber of commerce, I have found to be just a goldmine. You’re the cool kid in the Chamber of Commerce among all the dentists and realtors and things like that. You’re the glamping person and and you really are cool.

And they love to connect with area, an area. Cool accommodation. 

Brian Searl: All right. I wanna switch this for a second. I’d love to catch up with Alessandro ’cause it’s been a while since we had him on the show. Do you wanna, just for the people who maybe didn’t see you on the first appearance you had here and are gonna get to know you as you continue to appear on the show, just tell us a little bit about what you have going on.

Alessandro, please. 

Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, sure. Actually my family has been in like outer hospitality business for many years now. I think last summer we celebrated the 40th anniversary of them in [00:37:00] the business. But our brand Vaan called Quarter, which in Italian means holiday with your heart.

So really personal was founded four years ago. Actually quite a bad timing because we had a covid crisis rushing in to our operation, like really in our first years. But what we are trying to do, we started with actually two locations that belonged to my parents for many times and now we.

Had this idea to create a little chain of boutique locations and in like our terms, boutique is between 50 and 350 units on a site. And the advantage of have, having like several locations is that we are trying to build a guest community. So we are investing quite a lot in like our database, our CRM strategies keeping up on like our social media community.

And at the end we I mean we are aware that people are actually booking one holiday a year because in, in Europe we are mainly serving the school holiday for family with kids. So normally [00:38:00] people are doing it once a year. Sometimes they visit us like twice, but it’s always like one bigger period and one maybe weekend or like couple of days stay.

But by, by offering them like the same. The same kind of service on different locations. We give them the opportunity to change destination every year, but finding the concept that they apparently like and yeah, that, that’s actually what we’re doing. We are opening a new resort that will be ready summer 2024 in central Italy.

It’s a lake, Trasimeno lake, so it’s just one and a half hour north of Rome. And yeah, then we take it from there. So we will have this up and running. That’s number nine. And then we will see like what opportunities are coming on our way. And besides this, we are quite yeah organized to distribute our holidays ourselves.

You were saying like 50% direct? We are doing roughly 60% direct. And my personal job within the company is more on the marketing and [00:39:00] sales part. My task is to get this 60% up to probably 70, 75%, which is I think the highest we can realistically reach. And to give you some numbers, we are doing around 35,000 bookings a year.

And also like running all the FMBs on every site. We have a restaurant and a shop, and we are running everything within our business. 

Brian Searl: Where do you, I’m curious where you see the European glamping market headed in the next few years. Generally speaking, 

Alessandro van de Loo: I think generally speaking, what’s the most interesting thing is that Europe has a strong tradition in regular camping.

And until 10, 12, 15 years ago you had like people going to campings on holiday and people going to hotels or resorts or whatever. What we are seeing now, and I think glamping is playing a big part in this transition, is that basically every family with kids in Europe is a potential target for us.

So people are switching a lot between type of [00:40:00] holidays. Maybe one year they just rent a holiday home. One year they go glamping. One year they go to Asia then one year they stay home because they are renewing like the garden or whatever. It’s really our target group is growing a lot, but the loyalty of customers is getting smaller.

So the way we approach them is really changing. So that’s I think point number one. And I think point number two is that at this moment two type of initiatives popping up. In Europe. You have this like very big operations normally backed up by like investment funds or private equity companies that are like building crazy results with a lot of very professional facilities.

But in my opinion, sometimes a bit, a lack of personality they’re just technically perfect, but the soul is sometimes a bit missing or it’s very fake. And then you have on the other side is very small operations that I have 5, 6, 10, 15 units. And those ones are the ones that are really done with a lot of passion.

And I [00:41:00] think they are actually serving very different needs of customers. But also here a customer can one time. Decide to go to the big professional destination. And the other time they just picked the small one. So it’s really we really see like this this blurred borders between the businesses.

And what we are noticing in Europe is that you have, traditionally, you have hotels holiday resorts attraction parks, so yeah, the Disney World or whatever. And in the last years we saw that these three categories are really moving together. So you have this big attraction businesses that are creating beds.

So giving the guests the opportunity to sleep over. And the big campsite or glamping operations that are investing in attractions. So it is really at the end it’s outer hospitality and you can attack it from different angles, but the outcome will be very similar. And that’s really a trend over here at the moment.

Brian Searl: All right, Zach, I have [00:42:00] three questions for you all in a row. Ready? Number one is rebuttal or thoughts on that, right? As it relates to the glamour market in the United States, Canada. Is that kind of the same way it’s headed? Two is it the same in The Bahamas? And then you can segue into telling us about what we were doing down there, please, because I really wanna hear about that.

And then three, do you need like any kind of a show host to go stay and test out things in The Bahamas, maybe do a live show from down there, or. 

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, so I, I would echo a lot of what Alessandro was saying. I think the US glamping market I’d like to say we’re we’re teenagers right now, right?

Like the industry’s starting to evolve and mature a little bit finding our way. We’re starting to grow up a little bit. This last week I actually spent out at Zion. Utah. And they stayed with big Noel Dutson and his team with OpenSky was absolutely blown away by, by what they’ve built, what they’ve done in the last two years.

And they’ve really truly raised the bar for [00:43:00] what, luxury glamping means. These guys are doing it right and they’re killing it. And when you look at an area like Zion, it’s a huge demand. It’s a huge market, but it’s also hit saturation. You look at the number of campgrounds and RV resorts and everything that’s been developed out there in the last five years.

There’s tons and tons even, within 10 miles of their site, I’ll bet there’s over a thousand units that are available. And, working with them and talking through what some of their goals are for growth and expansion. Does it make sense to keep investing in some of those areas?

And one of the things that I told them, I said, they’ve worked so hard to differentiate themselves and really focus on guest experience and delivering this luxury. I. Accommodation. Nobody else in that market, even though it’s busy and saturated, nobody is coming close to delivering what they’re doing.

And so I think when we look at the glamping market, when we look at especially some of these areas of the country that we’re seeing a large concentration of new developments, the Grand [00:44:00] Canyon Smoky, Mountains hill Country, Texas. I think these operators that are really targeting a top tier quality, luxury guest experience, they’re gonna be just fine.

I think as we come into, some of those saturated markets, it’s gonna be the people at the bottom that are really gonna struggle. It’s gonna be the guys that started with five or 10 units haven’t really done any sort of iteration or additions. They haven’t invested in their site since they opened, five years ago.

And it’s gonna be the smaller operators, I think that are really gonna struggle to, to differentiate themselves and to keep up with an ever increasing demand for a higher level of guest expectation on site. 

Brian Searl: But they can, right? There are ways that they can. Do They can.

Zach Stoltenberg: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And in a lot of ways, a lot of these big established operators that we’ve seen come on board, hit the ground, really, got a lot of traction in the marketplace and then they sold out to private equity [00:45:00] groups and after that acquisition, we’re starting to see now.

Kind of a pullback where some of these, established industry names have laid off lots of their staff that were people that have been with them from the beginning, that, that built that business. They pulled back on expansion plans. They’re trying to make those operations more lean and more efficient and more profitable because that’s what private equity does.

And we’re starting to already see some of those times turn especially some of the established industry operators. And I think that’s a real opportunity for the smaller independent folks to say, you know what yeah, we don’t have the budgets of some of these big established companies, but we’re gonna do something different.

We’re gonna focus on creating an authentic experience. I think that’s really what Alessandra was talking about. Really creating something that, that there’s care, there’s a tension. And that’s really what OpenSky has done so well, is create this, really unique luxury, personalized attention to detail and experience.

So I think that’s what I see [00:46:00] industry-wide in, in the US is some of these areas are starting to get saturation, but the people are really focusing on guest experience and customer satisfaction communication. They’re gonna be just fine and they’re gonna continue to be differentiators in the market.

So to give you some insight on Bahamas one of our first international projects that we’re working on, we’re pretty excited about that. Working with a really incredible owner and investor that has a very unique vision for what he wants to build there. The properties are a couple of different islands in The Bahamas.

And there’s it’s a very desirable area. Several of the cruise ships own islands that are across the ocean or across the harbor from where we’re at. It’s already a hotbed for tourism. But the focus is to create an off grid sustainable eco-resort. And the properties, currently it’s two uninhabited islands in The Bahamas.

So we spent a couple days down there with the owner and with some of his team of people that are really focused on bringing this thing to life. And it’s very different. There’s definitely some [00:47:00] logistical challenges we’re dealing with. We ha in, in the U.S, I can design anything, right?

Because chances are, within 30 to 50 miles, you’ve got a lumber yard, you’ve got, shipping and transportation, you’ve got utilities available. Really looking at this site there’s nothing there. There’s not a way to get a truck there. We’re not getting deliveries there.

There’s no utilities anywhere. And so how do we kind of pivot and I think, Chelsi’s, I see you’re smiling ’cause that’s exactly what you’ve had to do. But it’s created a really unique challenge. It’s fun now that we’re starting to work through some of the design pieces of this because it’s not just designing an incredible unit that somebody’s gonna want to come and spend a week at.

It’s still maintaining all those creature comforts to focus on guest experience and then figuring out. How do we package that all where we can ship it, to The Bahamas and then get it on a boat and then get it off of the boat and onto an island and get it set up. So it’s proved so far to be a really fun, really interesting project.

So we’ll see where it ends up. But [00:48:00] like I said, it’s one of my favorite things. Everybody asks me always what’s your favorite project that you’ve worked on? And then, and I give them the same answer every time. It’s whatever I’m working on right now. Because it is just fun to pour your heart and your soul and your passion for what you’re doing into each one of those projects.

So we’re in the thick of it on that one right now, so it’s been a lot of fun and exciting. I think that just 

Brian Searl: highlights right, the need for. What, maybe not the need for, but the benefit of having expertise where you need it. I can buy an island in The Bahamas and I have this team together that has this vision and they’ve, built or imagined what my dream is, but now I need somebody to actually execute on it in your case, what do I do? How do I get the permitting? How do I figure out all those logistics things like that. It’s the same with our sponsor that I forgot to mention. Horizon. Outdoor, Hospitality. Bringing in experts like that who can help you manage your campground, Scott Foose and his team. Thank you guys for sponsoring the show as always, and I’ll try to remember to mention you more than this at end of the show.

But everybody, like everybody sticks around for the end of the show, right? Because Zach and all of our guests are talking and they don’t wanna miss anything. So it really, maybe it’s better that I’ve mentioned [00:49:00] you at the end of the show anyway, but Horizon, Outdoor, Hospitality great management services for campgrounds and RV parks and planting resorts too.

But yeah again, just like that was an intentional segue, right? But not like making things up. Those kinds of. People like you are. 

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah. It takes a team and we’re a small part on that team. We’ve got lots of different folks involved. And everybody’s pretty equally passionate about what we’re doing, 

Brian Searl: all right. We got a couple minutes left. Does anybody have any final thoughts before we head off for the week? 

Chris Jeub: We are, I, Zach was a guest speaker of my mastermind just last week, and he was staying at Open Sky, so he got to pop his laptop open and walk through the tents. Very impressive. I think I’m gonna take my wife out there for a little tax write off and experience open Sky out in out, out west. So 

Stephanie Bias: it is Valentine’s day. 

Chris Jeub: You’re right. I should book a night 

Brian Searl: For all those men who forgot. It’s Valentine’s day,

Stephanie Bias: The look of [00:50:00] surprise on everyone’s face.

Zach Stoltenberg: We’re all distracted in Kansas City. We got a little parade thing going on today, but everybody is wearing red I, I dunno. 

Stephanie Bias: Yeah, that’s a start. 

Brian Searl: That counts. Alright guys, thanks for being in another episode here. If we don’t have any final thoughts, thanks to our recurring guests, Zach and Chris for, being here and then obviously our new recurring guests, Alessandro, Stephanie.

Hopefully it was okay for you guys. We’ll get together, right? We need, be more forceful. Interject yourself with presentations. Feel free to, to speak up whenever you want, because again, as I’ve said before on all these episodes, the less I talk, the better the shows are. And then thanks to Eve and Chelsi for being here and Eve where can they find out more about Groovy Yurts? 

Yves Ballenegger: Groovyyerts.com would be the best the best way. Or call us. We would be happy. We’re on social media as well. Or just come and visit, or we’ll come and visit you. 

Brian Searl: All right, Chelsi. Where can they find out more about Aefintyr? 

Chelsi Low: Yes. [00:51:00] AefintyrOutdoors.com. And then I’m also on Instagram, Facebook and Google Maps, too is a great way to just find the website if you Google it.

Brian Searl: All right. 

Chelsi Low: It was wonderful talking with all of you. A pleasure. 

Chris Jeub: Yeah, it’s great. 

Brian Searl: I guess we have a minute left. 

Yves Ballenegger: I love to hear that in general, the, since the future is into into this positive experience into the stories into really customer service and your story. Chelsi is inspiring and yeah, that that’s positive.

Brian Searl: Alright. A couple seconds left, Zach. Where can they find out more about Clockwork? 

Zach Stoltenberg: Clockwork-ad.com Clockwork-Adarchitecturedesign.com. We’re also on Instagram and all the socials as well. Or come and meet us. We’re going to several different trade shows and marketing events. We’ll be at the Glamping Show, be it the other hospitality conference.

We’re actually reaching out to do several traditional hospitality events this year. So we’ll be at HD and trying to teach the traditional hotel [00:52:00] industry of what opportunity lies in outdoor hospitality. 

Brian Searl: So that’s actually an interesting topic. We should spend a show talking about that blend, right?

Because I was thinking that when she was, when Chelsi was talking about all the, where she gets the bookings from, that there’s just that kind of unfair advantage with Glamping, where you can do hip camp and Airbnb. You’re not one or the other, right? And so you almost have more opportunities to market yourself in some cases.

But Chris, we’re gonna find out more about either your resort or the Glamping guy. You can only pick one. 

Chris Jeub: Glamping guy.com. I’m actually just finishing up my first class eight weeks to launch. Like we like the, my first students and I’m very excited about how that curriculum is unfolding. Glampingguy.com is my website 

Brian Searl: awesome. Stephanie Camparamone 

Stephanie Bias: Camparamone.com 

Brian Searl: and Alessandro 

Alessandro van de Loo: Vacanzecolcuore.com. And it’s quite difficult to spell. 

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, you might have to spell that for us.

Alessandro van de Loo: It’s actually on the back of my screen. 

Brian Searl: It’s reversed the camera’s here. [00:53:00] 

Alessandro van de Loo: Next time I’ll be better prepared. 

Brian Searl: Everything’s working against you. All right. Thank you guys. I really appreciate you for joining us on our episode of MC Fireside Chats. We’ll see you next week for our campground owners focused episode and all of our recurring guests, again in one month from today.

Thank you guys. Have a great day. Thank you. Alright everyone. Thanks everybody. 

For joining us for this episode of MC Fireside Chats with your host Brian Searle. Have a suggestion for a show idea. Want your campground or company and new future episode? Email us at hello at moderncampground.com. Get your daily dose of news from Moderncampground.com, and be sure to join us next week from more insights into the fascinating world of outdoor hospitality.[00:54:00]