MC Fireside Chats – August 6th, 2025

Brian Searl: Everybody tuned another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks. You guys can see the behind the scenes. I came in and popped in five and a half seconds before the show started. So it’s been a fun morning for me. All kinds of excitement. And who would have it any other way, right?

Rafael, what I’m talking about, right? You have those mornings. Kristin knows what I’m talking about. Scott, Nick, Simon.

Rafael Correa: Wouldn’t be late to my funeral.

Brian Searl: Yeah, those are the fast mornings, aren’t they? Wake up in the morning, you’re like, I know everything’s under control. It’s peaceful, calm, and then just, Nope, nope, it’s not.

Anyway, super excited to be here for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. We’ve got our week one episode here. We’re talk about industry trends and insights. Got a lot of data here. Our guru, wise old wizard, old. Scott

Scott Bahr: Hey. Easy.

Brian Searl: Dye your hair, man. You gotta dye your hair.

Scott Bahr: I’m growing my hair longs to

Brian Searl: I’ll pay you to dye your hair different colors for the show. We could sell a sponsorship. Like air paint, something your goatee or something. Like a logo of a company. Kristin would you sponsor that?

Scott Bahr: Put a logo on my forehead. Right there.

Kristin Andersen Garwood: He’s got the beautiful hair color that would take to any, purple or blue or something that.

Brian Searl: Yes, true. And I make fun of him, but I’m bald. I shave it ’cause my hair’s completely gray too. Not all of us have Rafael’s budget to color our hair, so

Welcome everybody. All right. What do we gotta talk about today? We’ve got a couple interesting guests. My dog needs to get up here. Hello. Say hi, this is Riley. She’s a lap dog

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Riley.

Brian Searl: We have Nick Harrington on here, the Communications Manager at South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks. Is that the order?

Nick Harrington: Yes.

Brian Searl: Game Fish and Parks. Fish Game and Parks.

Nick Harrington: Yep. Nick Harrington, Communications Manager, Game, Fish, and Parks. And I did not know that my hair, forehead would be for sale in this show. So thanks everyone for having me on and hopefully I do well, but not well that anyone tries to buy a forehead sponsorship from me.

Brian Searl: Yeah, I’ve been trying for years, man. Like I got a big, huge forehead. Like I even got this characteristic second brain bump up here that I’ve been trying to sell a logo on. Nobody wants to take me up, don’t worry about it, is what I’m trying to say. Nick.

Nick Harrington: Sounds good.

Brian Searl: I don’t think you’re in any danger.

Kristin from Sage Outdoor Advisory, welcome to special guests. And then we have our regular wonderful recurring guest. Eleonore, this is your first show with us where we bumped you around and moved you from the RV industry to this new show, industry trends and insights. So excited to dive into a little bit of that with you.

And then our regular guest, Rafael, Simon from Cat Map and Scott Bahr, of course. I wanna go around the room and introduce ourselves real quick. Do you wanna start, Eleonore, since it’s your first week on with the new crowd?

Eleonore Hamm: Sure. Thank you for having me. My name’s Eleonore Hamm.

I’m President of the RV Dealers Association of Canada. We’re based in lovely Vancouver and we represent the dealer body across the country. And we’ll have probably some stats, the information that we share is usually generally on the retail side and what’s happening in Canada for our dealer body.

Brian Searl: Awesome. Excited to have you here, Eleonore. Rafael, you wanna go?

Rafael Correa: Yeah. Rafael Correa, President, CFO of Blue Water Hospitality. We are a Campground, RV Resort developer, owner and manager. We manage over 60 RV resorts across the US of A.

Brian Searl: Welcome Rafael. Pleasure to have you here as always. Simon.

Simon Neal: Hi, I’m Simon, the Founder and CEO of Camp Map. We help outdoor hospitality locations campgrounds, clamping sites, RV parks, improve marketing and guest experience with professional digital maps.

Brian Searl: Simon, do you have any parks in Canada yet or is it the US that you’ve expand? Obviously more than the US but

Simon Neal: No we have a couple we’re chatting to. We don’t have any signed up yet.

Brian Searl: We gotta get you a park in Canada, man. I’ll make it my mission. Don’t worry about it. I got you covered. Scott Bahr.

Simon Neal: Thanks.

Scott Bahr: Scott Bahr, the President of Caring Consulting Group. We’re a market research and analysis organization and, I won’t even go any further because I’ll end up talking the whole time, so.

Brian Searl: That’s fine. We’re all smarter because of it. Scott. We know this. How long have you known each other? The more you talk, the more we learn.

And then our two special guests. Nick, you wanna go first?

Nick Harrington: Yep. Nick Harrington, Communications Manager with Game Fish and Parks. I’m here at Pierce, South Dakota, the middle of the state, and I get to work with all of our state parks, recreation areas.

I know a little bit about a lot of ’em but I get to work closely. Our marketing for our state parks, getting folks out there visiting, visitor experience, I have my hands in a little bit of all of it. So really excited to be on the show and I wanna thank everybody for having me.

Brian Searl: Yeah, I appreciate you being here.

I want to talk to you more about state parks in a second. Obviously that’s what you’re here to do. But I like, I have a desperate need to know all the beautiful things in South Dakota ’cause my memory is scarred from coming to South Dakota and staying in a hotel, which we don’t wanna talk about evil hotels.

I got bedbugs in South Dakota, when I went through there I don’t know, seven, eight years ago. So I’m all state parks, all fish. We gotta let more people know about the great things that happened here instead of in the evil hotels. That sounds great. Kristin Sage Outdoor Advisory.

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Hey. Hello. Yes. Vice President at Sage Outdoor Advisory. We do all things feasibility study in appraisals for anything outdoor hospitality related from RV resorts to glamping to the new term landscape hotels in Marinas. In the past three years, we’ve done over 300 feasibility studies appraisals across the country and in Canada. Yeah.

Brian Searl: Awesome. Welcome Kristin. I’m excited to have you here and dive into a little bit more about what Sage does and the things have going on. As we do normally in the beginning of the show, we tos it to our recurring guests and say, is there anything that’s come across your desk in the last month since we’ve been together?

I know Eleonore’s your first show, but similar thing that we would do with RVDA on the RV show. Is there anything think we should be talking about?

Simon Neal: I have something bit different, some environmental risks based on what’s happening in Catalonia and Northern Spain. If you wanna chat about that at some point. What we see. Yeah.

Brian Searl: Give us some clarity. What’s going on?

Simon Neal: It was from an article in March this year. So the previous year in October, they had a lot of flooding problems in Catalonia, in the campgrounds, and obviously this year that’s been happening again in the US. So it’s it’s a thing that’s popped up and they’re taking it very seriously.

Earlier this year, they acted upon what happened last time, and they’ve identified that outta the 396 campgrounds in that region, about 151 of them are at risk from flooding. And based on that, high risk level, they’ve then gone ahead and put legislation in place. So it’s now a requirement for every Campground to do a study on their layouts, where the facilities are, and ensure that if the art risk, there’s measures to be taken in place to deal with that risk.

And the main focus of that is two things. One is to protect people, of course. And the other thing is also the economic side of it, because, as long as always the disaster people, it’s an economic impact as well. And they wanna avoid both of those things. So in addition to the law, they’ve also put together a budget people can apply to this budget for funding to do these studies.

And they’re really pushing the implementation of different technologies, modern technologies to do this analysis. So it’s a pretty nice article and they’re taking it very seriously now. And it’s starting to go into implementation. So that’s one side of it. And the other side of it is some of the large marketplaces in Europe do bookings.

And there’s one in particular that does ratings for Campground. So they’re independent ratings and they’re start including environmental factors in the rating system as well. It’s two fronts coming in. One is, the danger side and the other is actually, what’s good for business these days?

Brian Searl: Let’s start with danger and then let’s go to the good thing, right? ‘Cause I think that for those who haven’t been paying attention to the industry as much as we have, I don’t know what happened in Catalonia but I’m assuming something similar to what happened, the tragedy in Texas here was it a month ago now?

Something that where the flash flooding came and it was mostly, as I understand it, impacting camps, children’s camps and things that. There were a couple private parks that were touched, but something similar to that. Simon?

Simon Neal: Yeah, it was a very wet season. Several different flood events. And towns got impacted, but also particularly the campgrounds ’cause they’re exposed.

Brian Searl: I think we got a lot of great minds and that’s why I wanna go with this topic for a second on this podcast. Rafael, I know you own some resorts in Texas. I don’t think you own you, sorry. You don’t own in Texas. You manage in Texas, right? I don’t think anything near the river and the incident that happened. Correct. I think they’re all.

Rafael Correa: We did have a park that was impacted pretty significantly.

Brian Searl: Okay. So yeah, I’m interested to talk to you about that and then development and what goes into that process and how do we think about the risk versus reward because I think it’s different.

Like it’s not different, but it’s especially prevalent in our industry, outdoor hospitality, glamping, camping because we wanna be as close to those natural features as possible. Put me up next to the riverbank, put my cabin there on the water, but then there’s also in some places, in some instances, much more danger than others.

And I’m interested to hear your take on that, Rafael. Maybe your take, Kristin, as you do feasibility studies. Scott, if you have some data on that stuff. So why don’t we start there? Who wants to kick it off?

Rafael Correa: Yeah, Texas is, it’s been a double-edged sword for a lot of folks. The freedom that you have to build business in Texas is such a, in some ways is a beautiful thing, but in other ways can be very problematic, right?

One from overdevelopment and two, maybe from developing areas that may or maybe shouldn’t be developed as this case of point, so. Obviously, there’s legislation now in place about what can go where and we expect that to have some significant impact. So it’s interesting that you’re seeing a similar impact all the way over there in Europe.

I expect that the tragedies that force us to evolve and it’s force the industry to evolve even further and zoning and jurisdictions, and this is why those things exist, right? That’s part of a modern, civilized society that’s tried to protect the people that enjoy that space.

And there’s no doubt that this is the beginning. We’re see that impact. But to your earlier point, Brian, you’re absolutely right. We’re called Blue Water as a company because waterfront is in our DNA. 90% of our assets are on the water.

And it’s not because that’s our preference. It’s what our client’s preferences are. Yeah. It’s what they want to be close to. And for those reasons it’s it’s always be a double-edged sword. We gotta do our best to keep people safe and in those scenarios. And we have a responsibility in that as owners and operators.

The government has a responsibility in that in zoning and warning systems and all those things. But, it’s, this is how an industry evolves.

Brian Searl: What things from your side first, Rafael, go into this as you’re either taking over management of a property or consult.

Did you do Bluewater, does consulting On develop new development, minor

Rafael Correa: amount of consulting. I usually try to send all that to Kristin’s direction. But, and some of the other great folks that are in this space. We do obviously advise existing clients. On expansions and other things that.

The risk factor is something that we take very seriously. Blue Water, we were located here in Ocean City, Maryland, we are always on a ticking time clock of when’s the next hurricane, right? Yeah. And

Everyone: and

Rafael Correa: early in our management building our management portfolio, we realized the importance of having emergency preparedness plans.

Every single Blue Water property has a SAT satellite communicator, right? And if one of our properties gets completely wiped out because of a hurricane or some other natural disaster, we always have the ability to stay in touch. And that’s one piece of a very robust emergency preparedness plan that we’re constantly refining and proving as an organization, right?

And it’s you never know that in Texas is case in point. You never know what the, what’s get you. And you can’t you’re better off to be prepared for and anticipate scenarios. Even the ones that you might not. Ever imagined it happened, but better be safe than sorry.

Brian Searl: Scott, did we talk on, we talked on Outwired about this a little bit, didn’t we?

Emergency prep plans and stuff. Yep. Do you remember what we generally landed on? ’cause I’m old and forget you’re young and vibrant.

Scott Bahr: Yeah, what we talked, we talked a lot about how honestly, very simply the importance of it and to take into all those considerations because one of the topics that we did how that’s related to is insurance.

And having someone that you trust someone who’s good help, find a good company to work with, someone that can do the appropriate upfront stuff with all that because you’re have to have a risk manager eventually come in and evaluate that. So that was really the gist of what we were talking about, from a very practical point of view to make sure that those parts of the business are buttoned up.

I,

Brian Searl: I wanna get to you in a second, Kristin. I wanna give you a time to think of the best answer ever possible, no pressure. Nick, I’m curious Nick how does the state parks and fish and game and all that help handle, flood threats and how does this handle internally in a government organization?

Nick Harrington: Absolutely. So a little bit about us. Game Fish and Parks. We have our attorney, we have our engineering staff. Everything through risk management, that’s a separate win of state government. So we’re fortunate that we have that resource there at our disposal. But on the day-to-day operations of the park, one of the things that we’ve identified across the state is what we refer to as high hazard dams.

So this was in 2020. We went in and we implemented the habitat stamp, which was something that hunters anglers, this money, a big component of it. It goes into habitat work across the state. But a lot of it went into some of these major DAM projects, and that’s something that we’re taking very seriously is those infrastructure state owned dams.

High hazard dams. That’s something our engineers work with, the state engineers and we’ve made some really nice progress with. And the other thing I’ll say on the individual park level is we are fortunate to have some amazing volunteers. Our Campground hosts, those are volunteer positions within those parks and they do a fantastic job ’cause life on the prairie here things come and go pretty fast.

I sit here today, it’s 90 degrees humid. I worry about a storm popping up on us because that’s the nature of life here. Having that really good staff member you trust, they can get folks. Our, we don’t have a lot at some of our parks and our comfort stations are our storm shelter, our tornado shelters, and then in the event of a really bad storm taking place, which they generally seem to fall on weekends, it seems as everybody is in the park.

I’m not sure. That seems to be how the timing of it plays out. But those volunteers and our conservation officers, it’s a team effort to make sure all of our folks that are staying in the parks are taken care of. So that’s kind my broad answer. We’re fortunate to have the state engineer, we’re fortunate to have the O Office of Emergency Management, but on that day-to-day that, that day-to-day in the moment impact, it really comes down to those awesome volunteers we have.

Brian Searl: And it is a lot that goes into it. And I don’t think people both from a state and. A private park perspective, there’s a ton that goes into, the emergency planning is not as simple as, it’s a lot easier going to Chad GBT now, but it’s not as easy as that.

You have to think of all the intangibles and all the what ifs and all the, maybe it goes this way or that way, or maybe it gets this high or that high or and there’s all kinds of different things, our cabins on stilts. Are they not, how does the land grade, how does it, all things, I’m guessing off the top of my head, I absolutely know nothing about this, but that seems a ton of work to go through.

But it’s very critical. Rafael?

Rafael Correa: It’s absolutely critical. And the scale of what happened in Texas and the number of properties that were impacted, and again, this is something that hasn’t happened in a hundred years, right? And but. We can’t plan for, and that’s what my earlier point was.

You have to expect the unexpected and prepare for all the possible scenarios, even how implausible they might be.

Brian Searl: Yeah, that’s the danger is saying now, we don’t wanna get into this lull of saying okay, it’s not happen for another a hundred years ’cause it averages every a hundred years.

It could happen twice in three weeks for all we know, right?

Rafael Correa: It almost did down there. Yeah.

Brian Searl: Yeah. They did get a bunch of rain after it. I saw that. Yeah. Alright, Kristin, are you ready? You got no camera. I’m

Kristin Andersen Garwood: ready to give you the best answer ever. So yeah, there’s a few ways I can go off of what Rao shared and what Scott shared too, and how we go about looking at that.

But, one Yeah. Zoning, especially in Texas, we’ve done much stuff in Texas in particular, I wrapped up something and first there’s much new development out there and it’s allowed and, there’s not a lot of checks and balances, I would say, in that state. So you definitely have to take that into consideration.

And then, one thing that we do when we look at feasibility is we’re looking at wetlands maps fema, flood maps. And now we have recently started. To look at the FEMA fire maps as to the possibility of damage and the cost behind it, and how risky in areas too, which then in turn plays into how much is insurance cost and are you be, have to be.

Paying a premium or not. And then we have to put that into our analysis and also list that as, hey, when we do our SWOT analysis, this is a, a threat or this is something you have to take very seriously and get some insurance quotes before you can move forward.

Same with stuff on the water. I am working on a feasibility study, on the Gulf of Mississippi and yeah, hurricane area, right? We have to think about that. So yeah, maybe on the stuff closest to the water, it’s maybe only some RV sites or we’re looking at maybe doing some airstreams that can get pulled out of there versus even say park metal cabins.

And then we’re talking about what we call tree houses, but then places on stilts, right? So that if the flood comes through when it comes. Through because it will at some point. You know what I mean? Like those aren’t be we’re hoping they don’t get washed away. These are all things too, when it comes to Hey, how feasible, really project, because you have to look at nature and your site in every site is different.

Brian Searl: And you can never make your park nature proof, right? Yeah. I think I, I remember years ago that’s called a parking lot. Yeah, that’s true. But then you maybe have underground utilities in a parking lot. So I don’t know, maybe it’s still not proof, but I remember years ago going to the Cape Hatas, KOA, 20 13, 14, something that.

I can’t remember the exact year corporate owned property. I remember going there and they had recovered from, I think some major flooding and they had rebuilt and everything was up on stilts. The cabins were up really high, but then I think a couple years ago they hit again and most of it got wiped out.

They had put in this brand new, I don’t know, multimillion dollar swimming pool and I don’t think it was totally destruction.

Rafael Correa: Been back for a while and it’s a great property. But yeah, it’s a beautiful property. It’s the reason people go there. They go there for that proximity. You are, and it’s your ocean front oasis for that week of the summer at a price point that’s incredibly accessible relative to the other options in the outer banks, which are 16 bedroom houses that rent for tens of thousands of dollars for a week.

And

Brian Searl: yeah.

Rafael Correa: It’s, again this we’re, our whole industry and especially the RV side in particular is based around accessibility. It’s based around this concept of community. And there are two things that you can’t replicate anywhere else other than a Campground. And yeah, you better believe it.

They’re want to be somewhere cool, on an, a barrier island off the coast of North Carolina.

Brian Searl: So when you look at let’s start with Scott and Christian. Question for each of you guys. We’ll start with Scott. When Scott, when you’re consulting for people who are interested in either, building, developing, renovating, asking questions, things that how do you.

Obviously it depends on many different intangibles, right? Christian was talking about what is the likelihood of a fire or a hurricane or things that. But is there different measurement points where you’re like, obviously this should be done before you purchase a piece of land, right?

In some form or fashion before you sink millions of dollars into something and you’re like, oh, I didn’t realize it was flood. Now I can’t build what I want here and I’m stuck with the land. But is there a certain point where you’re this is on a scale of one to 10, six you maybe could build here, four, you shouldn’t, one, you should run away as fast as possible.

How do you approach that with a client for different, essentially

Scott Bahr: We don’t use a 10 point scale.

Brian Searl: I didn’t, I’m making something up, right? I didn’t assume you did

Scott Bahr: but we develop a a risk score overall. And then, it’s, there’s a bit of subjectivity to that.

But if you’re not in the upper tier in that within the score, you should really think about, I tend to be pretty conservative about that. I tend to try to get people to, because sometimes a lot of these things are viewed with through rose colored glasses. The people, they see the property.

It’s this is work. Yeah, this is work. It’s in the perfect spot. It’s we know it’s it’s great. No, we don’t need the environmental testing. No, we don’t need this. And that’s why we typically have a, again, we’re fairly conservative by the, someone asks a question where we’re usually if you’re not really solid in the upper tier, then you probably shouldn’t do it.

That’s my take on it. It’s that I, you might, we, we did a decent amount pushback on that, by the way. But it’s I feel it’s our incumbent upon us to do that. Because you can tell and in fact there was a huge project that these folks wanted to do in Illinois, and it was it would’ve been a disaster.

And after we made our recommendation not to do it, about a month later, one of the partners called us back and said, what? That was the best call. And it just, for a lot of these reasons, it came, it came together and it wasn’t work. It wasn’t work. So anyway, I know that’s sounds a little subjective, but I think in some cases it is, it’s not really subjective because you’re basing it on the information you have and your experiences.

Brian Searl: Yeah. But how you interpret it is suggestive, right? Just I as a marketer can look at Google Analytics and tell you eight different stories about what’s happening,

Everyone: right?

Brian Searl: It’s all the same data, but it’s different interpretations. And it depends on what you’re looking at and what your goals are and what your risk appetite is.

Same as investing in stock, rossel, were you say something?

Rafael Correa: It’s a risk reward calculus, right? Yeah, at the, because I have, I said, many properties on the waterfront that I could have bought the land, one block interior, probably for, a third of the price. But I would also be able to command a third of the rent or less, right?

The fact that a kid can toss a fishing line off a dock in my property and never have to leave the property is a, is something that a parent thinks about when they’re booking a trip. And for all those reasons, it’s, sometimes the risk does not, outweigh and that’s the calculus you have to do because it is a double-edged sword.

But it’s what the consumer wants. And you have to be, you have to be smart, you have to be calculated. And now more than ever the Texas situation reminds us to be extra careful that the proper precautions are in place for the those unexpected events. Those try.

Brian Searl: Are there ways, let’s say you don’t fall at the extreme.

I’m use my dumb 10 point scale. ’cause it’s easier to illustrate on a podcast when I’m talking with no visuals. But let’s say anywhere between 7, 8, 9, is that fair, Scott? You would be like, all right, you could probably build there, but pay attention at seven. Much more closely.

Scott Bahr: Yeah.

Yeah. It’s seven. You’re start to there’s be some triggers. There’s some warning signs that dropped it down. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Rafael Correa: If you’re on a seven or eight on the risk scale, you better be on a 10 11 on the revenue scale, right? So lemme be

Brian Searl: clarify. Otherwise is worst is green outta green, develop everything, right?

So a, let’s take it an NPS score, right? So nine out of 10 is really good. Seven out, seven out eight is good, but you don’t really get any points from it, who cares? But that then if you get down to a, let’s say a five or six, you’re not all the way down to a 1, 2, 3, 4.

If you’re at a five or six, is there certain instances where it makes sense for you as an owner to look at your consultants, your team, whether that’s Sage or Karen Consulting, or your management company at Blue Water and say, are there ideas you have that this property’s really beautiful. I know it’s a risk, my insurance might cost more, but can I do things to help protect the park?

Can I mitigate flood waters? Can I don’t know, do pruning of the forest? Can I do controlled burns? Can I stuff that?

Kristin Andersen Garwood: You have to look at budgets too, right? Course all this comes into play, right? Obviously it’s not a one size fits all.

Everyone: Yeah.

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Yeah.

Brian Searl: But are there situations that? Have you, maybe let, lemme ask this.

Have you ever come across a property that was epic that you’re like, yes, it’s worth this extra cost?

Rafael Correa: Yes. All day long.

Everyone: Yeah.

Rafael Correa: Thank you. Have water. I have many in the blue water portfolio where they’re in high risk areas that are, but they’re in, irreplaceable real estate that people flock to whenever they have time off.

So are there ways, yeah, if the rates

Kristin Andersen Garwood: can support it, then that makes sense of doing something super high risk. Like what Ralph’s saying.

Brian Searl: So what are some ways that people can be proactive, understanding that every park is different. There’s 10,000 different answers that could come out of your mouth, right?

But let’s say, let’s take a hurricane prone area, right? Obviously up on stilts is one idea. Are there other different ways that can lower the risk factor from an insurance premium standpoint or a guest safety standpoint that you can think of? I think,

Rafael Correa: Emergency preparedness plans is the one thing that’s the most controllable, right?

Developing responsibly is. More often than not. I think Texas is an exception more often than not, that is well dictated and well controlled by local authorities because they’ve, that’s the one that has the longest track record of issues and what happened. And typically codes are a product of years and years of experience in that particular market.

So that’s what the, the value of zoning and codes are. And following that, but what you can control on your side, I said, is the emergency preparedness. I think that’s the most important thing. And then developing responsibly, right? And I have certainly walked away from certain deals where I didn’t think the juice was worth the squeeze because of the risk factor on known flooding or whatever the case may be.

And there’s also, something that I’ve learned through this whole experience in Texas is that there is a hurricane is as painful as they are and as destructive as they can be to an entire area. There’s a lot of heads up, right? Like you see ’em coming for a while and you have some ability to anticipate, react, things tornadoes, things flash flooding, these things pop up outta nowhere with almost zero warning.

And it’s a different tactic. It’s a different tactic. And, I’m putting plans in place in a lot of my portfolio to enhance our emergency preparedness plans specifically to address things that, right? Things that are less you have to react to in very short timeframes. And understanding what your potential risks are and then building emergency preparedness plans is probably the single most important thing as a business owner and the responsibility you have to your guests.

Brian Searl: Is there a Eleonore, I’m do a reach thing here, right? And see if I can tie this in any way. But I’m curious, we hear all the time about. Car and vehicle safety standards, are there RV safety standards?

Eleonore Hamm: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There are two two standards. There’s the American, the NFP 1192, and then in Canada there’s the CSA Z two 40.

Now both standards are recognized in most of the provinces in Canada. A couple provinces only recognize the CSAs at two 40. But the units are built to those standards. And then most of the Campground operators are aware of the standards. And we ask that when they accept RVs into their parks, that they be built to one of those two standards.

And that’s why you have the issue of. I’m not it’s maybe the tiny homes which, you know, maybe in some of the parks, but, or units that are one ofs or built by individuals. We always tell Campground operators, please be aware that those might not be built to a safety standard that are required by provincial law.

And then would be in your municipal zoning. And they could potentially create a risk to that Campground if they’re not built to those because they are safety standards. Just as an operator, please be aware of what you’re accepting into your park and ensure that it does meet one of those regulations.

Brian Searl: What are some of the risk, if what are some of the riskiest things that you think some of the manufacturers have had to, not big ones right, but the, if you’re letting someone in that’s not up to that code. What are some of the risks that you as an operator, Campground operator, are exposing yourself to you?

Because I think we’ve talked about floods and natural disasters and fires, but there’s also the fire that started from, look at the Maine Scott? The unfortunate couple in Maine who had their. That, I don’t know whether that was code or I don’t know if that was propane left on or whatever, but there’s dangers in the units themselves too that impact operators, right?

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah. Propane is propane, right? So if it’s not surfaced or regulated or installed properly, obviously it can cause explosions damage, there’s electrical issues, carbon monoxide sometimes people take those unit the carbon monoxide detectors out for whatever reason.

There’s, there are all components of the safety standards. We wanna make sure that there’s, you have your preparedness for the campgrounds, the units, have a regulations on how many exits they need to have and where those exits are. And in case there, there is there is an issue, right?

I always recommend, make sure that you’ve got one of those two standards labeled on the side of the unit to ensure that, that they meet the codes, right?

Rafael Correa: It’s super important. And, I’ve just, happened recently here in Ocean City. There was a hotel that had sent 40 people to the hospital with carbon monoxide poisoning.

All the rooms that were located in an adjacency to the boiler area. And to Eleonore’s point, their standards they’re built to or to help prevent that type of stuff. And unfortunately, or the nature of the RV and Campground world is because it was somewhat it’s a lot of these assets are older, right?

And sometimes things aren’t necessarily built to a code or necessarily, or a permit may or may not have been pulled to build something. And we’ve run across that in acquisitions where we’re like, all right, where’s the C of O for this? Was it inspected? Where’s the, where are all the approvals?

And sometimes, the Campground industry slid under the radar. I think now that we’ve become a more full-blown asset class of our own and not a subsidiary of. Manufactured housing or other industries, much the RV industry is subject to these very specific code requirements, I think more and more scrutiny is coming to the RV world which will increase costs, which will increase the amount of management oversight that’s required, but it needs to be expected.

And ultimately it’s the safety of the guest that’s staying with you or the safety of the consumer that’s using the RV. In the case of the RV,

Brian Searl: are there ways that we should be communicating this better to guests? And I’ll take, I’ll go to you Simon first ’cause you obviously have a consumer pacing product that probably millions of campers have seen in your maps at various parks all around the world.

Are there ways that we should be doing a better job to communicate, not necessarily the dangers, but the risks? I guess both. But not going far as to make people scared to come, but making them aware. And I feel even in the most dangerous places in the world, sometimes that’s overlooked by guests.

I’ll give you an example. I was in Iceland several years ago and we went to a little town around Kovi here, and I I’m probably backwards on the cameras not make sense. Anyway, bottom corner of Iceland going around to the glaciers and we stopped in this little town, they had an indoor, a indoor lava exhibit where they were melting stuff really hot.

And they were showing you what lava looked inside in a really cool display. And during the course of this whole like, I don’t know, theater presentation, the guy’s this town is I don’t know, 150, 200 years past the date of when our volcano or active one up there in the hill should have blown up.

And if it does, then the whole glacier that’s sitting on top of it will melt instantly. The flood will hit the town and everybody will be wiped out in about 15 minutes. So everybody here that lives locally knows to go to the church. And I’m like, what about the people who are visiting and in your tour now?

Do we know what, I didn’t know to go to the church until you told me that but are there better ways that we can be proactive, Simon? Do we need to be? Or what is, does that look from a consumer standpoint?

Simon Neal: Yeah, I think you don’t wanna scare people. But I think it’s two things.

One, be an awareness of planning or being upfront about things. And the other is, when something goes wrong, make sure they get the information immediately and they can act on it. If you want, I can show you a feature that we have. Might be quite useful.

Brian Searl: Yeah, go for it.

Because I think there’s as he pulls this up, Rafael, there’s obviously guest communication from your standpoint too. You don’t wanna put a, Hey, there’s a 22% chance that your vacation could be completely flooded away or you don’t wanna do that. But but I started with Simon for the maps that he’s show us in a second.

And I didn’t know about this feature, but that’s one tool of guest communication. So are the awareness that you make people in the pre-arrival emails and the signage around your park, I was in Churchill, Manitoba, everywhere. There’s signs that say, don’t walk past the sign. There’s polar bears here, all around the edge of town.

So go ahead Simon.

Simon Neal: Okay. So yeah, this is one of our campgrounds and part of our maps. We have these filters up front. So they’re really pushing us to develop something for emergency situations. So if any emergency happens in the Campground, you can click the filter. And everything else that’s not important disappears from the map.

And and highlighted the emergency arrows, which direction to go, fire extinguishers. And you even have defibrillators. So if you click on defibrillator here, you have the emergency contact information and even directions and it’s take you turn by turn to the defibrillator. So

Rafael Correa: that’s really neat.

Simon Neal: Yeah. So this is one example which came from a customer request. We implemented, and of course all of these views and links can be shared in SMS or emails. If you do have an event happening that goes to their phone, they click on one link, they have the map popping up saying, run this way.

Brian Searl: Yeah. You and I keep talking and we’re gonna, we’re do a private sidebar here, guys, about business. You and I keep talking about me integrating with your API, but we need our AI to be able to ask the directions that it gets from your map to the defibrillator too. So they have multiple points of.

Contact, whether that’s phone or chat or looking at the map or whatever. Because you may be only able to do one thing depending on an emergency situation. Yeah.

Simon Neal: Yeah. So the idea behind this is every state is shareable and it’s identifiable. So whatever you need to react to, if provide that visual cue straight away and it’s relevant.

Brian Searl: Are there regulations, Rafael, and where, for example, he’s got a defibrillator on here. Are there regulations on a state county specific level that you have to have fire extinguishers, obviously in the cabins, but different places or defibrillators or medical services or anything that?

Rafael Correa: Yeah, a lot of that, a lot of times that’s dictated by, local health department codes. That’s really who controls a lot of that for us. And some areas are a little bit more strict than others and we are always working to the most stringent standard. If we have to meet Yeah.

Virginia Standard, which is pretty high and tight,

Brian Searl: then

Rafael Correa: we will implement that as our baseline everywhere and then amend that as needed. Where needed.

Brian Searl: Nick, how does this work in South Dakota?

Nick Harrington: Yeah, great question. So same thing. A lot of our, I, going back to my original answer, our volunteers, our Campground hosts our conservation officers, they’re the point of contact because they’re actually, they’re in the park, that number one resource.

But to your guys’ point too, in terms of preparation we’re fortunate that we did have a grant that we could have AEDs in every single one of our parks. Again, our comfort stations double as our storm shelters. So we’re pretty fortunate that we have a pretty good infrastructure within that.

And then again, we work very closely with state engineers, office of Risk Management, making sure that we do have all these very, what we would need based on the size of that park. And to even go back to the conversation about communicating with our visitors, that’s something that I think is absolutely key.

We enjoy this because it’s the outdoors, it’s. Wild places, wild animals, unpredictable things. You look at Custer State Park, you have the South Dakota guy on it, right? We have to talk about the buffalo. We have cus visitors that are, feet away from Buffalo. I would prefer they’re not that close.

But we, we all know on this call that sometimes they do. So doing that bison safety reminder, making sure that when they book, they have that information. We talk about recreating with respect a lot. That’s, putting them at the campfire, making sure that everything you do is up to code.

Making sure you’re taking care of your guests as well. Again, that fire danger, don’t park on tall grass, making sure we have adequate parking. A long answer to a couple of the questions, but that’s kinda how it works with game fish and Parks.

Brian Searl: I think, there’s a whole nother episode we could probably do on the people who are standing a few feet away from Buffalo.

Nick Harrington: There is. There is. And I don’t know that I’m excited enough to be on it, but I could get, definitely get some interest. Yes.

Rafael Correa: I do have a, I do have a side story. So I did a week long hike in Yellowstone National Park and the night before we go out, it was a guided, trip and it was an hour and a half prep talk, that here’s what’s going on, here’s what you need to repair for 45 to minutes to an hour of that was about bear safety.

And it was explicit. It was like, I don’t care if you walk out of your tent naked in the middle of the night, you take your bear spray with. That goes with you everywhere.

And it was explicit that he said that sometimes people don’t show up the next morning to go on the hike.

Brian Searl: That, that’s fine, but that’s honestly that’s what you want. It’s there was never that class when we went to Churchill, Manitoba, which is the polar bear capital of the world.

But when you leave Churchill, other than maybe a month, the month we were there, probably June or maybe July, you leave your house with a shotgun. Everybody in the town leaves all their houses and car doors unlocked, you can jump in and close the door. If they pull their, they walk through town, dozens of them.

And at some point there’s a look, here’s a sign we’ve told you there’s a shotgun. Get on board or well. The other alternative is, stand a couple feet away from the buffalo.

Rafael Correa: What do you think we’re, we got, we’re more than halfway through today, do you think we maybe talk about some, we’re here in early August, we’ve gotten through July.

Should we talk about some trends that we’re seeing in the industry? I’d especially, let’s do it, advantage of Eleonore being here today. Love to hear how how are RVs dealers faring this year far?

Eleonore Hamm: I’m only speaking for Canada and it has been it’s been soft. I think I’ve heard, and we’re waiting for our stats.

Unfortunately, we’re always about five weeks behind, right? So in, in new unit sales. We had stats to the end of the end of May. We were down about 12% over a year prior, and now 2024 and 2023 were not stellar in the Canadian industry. We, I have heard anecdotally from our dealers when I spoke to them in June, in the beginning of July that things had picked up a little bit.

We’re happy to hear that. We should get our June stats. Either the end of this week or first, first of next week, to see if that’s going well. I think it’s and from what I hear in the states, it’s been a little bit similar, there’s uncertainty.

People are holding on to discretionary income if they have it. In Canada our interest rates have come down a little bit. So that’s been good for consumers. Lucky. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s been a positive. We’re working

Brian Searl: on it. Rafael, I know are working on it. You got a couple more people get a fire down there.

We’re you’re getting closer to lower interest rates.

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah, we were, we. One big win for us is we’ve been working with with our government to get the counter tariffs off of motorized units. And as of, because that was announced on April 9th that motor homes were being tariffed at the 25%, we were successful in getting a remission for motor homes in the RV industry, which is huge.

And it was retroactive to that April 9th date. So hopefully that meant that dealers could be, ’cause I know that there were very few imports of motor homes into Canada after April 9th. So hopefully that means things will have opened up a little bit there. Definitely. Some positive new news, but I think people are still a little bit concerned about, what’s happening and where the economy’s going to go.

Now, I hear anecdotally, and maybe Scott probably has more detail on what’s happening on the Canadian Campground side, but we do hear that, people are going out there Camping. It seems it’s busy. I talked to care at C-C-R-V-A and our, some of our different provincial Campground associations.

I think things are going okay. Obviously we have disasters in some areas. We’ve had fires not as bad obviously as the Jasper Fire last year, but I know Manitoba and Saskatchewan have had to close some of their provincial parks for the season because of the impact of the fires.

Overall hopefully things are picking up ’cause it’s been, it’s a bit soft, but. I am curious

Rafael Correa: if you have any bead on we’ve seen a material impact of Canadians not coming to the us and I think from some of the data that I’ve seen in the Campground side from KOA specifically, that they’ve the Canadian K oas have been some of the beneficiary of folks staying in Canada.

Oh yeah. Good for them, obviously. I’m curious if you think that is having an impact on RV sales where people are maybe discouraged today from taking that thing over the border.

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah, I think what’s happening is you’ll see probably in the fall, typically in the fall, we would get the snowbirds that would be purchasing their units to take them down to, somewhere in, whether it be Florida, if you’re from Quebec or or of here in Arizona, on the west coast.

There is a sentiment of staying in Canada. We have heard that, border crossings from at the land borders are down traumatic dramatically. Even less border crossings than were happening during COVID. And during COVID there was, it was, you weren’t allowed unless it was essential.

Yeah. Essential, or for business. So I think that will probably continue. How long will that last? Will it be another three and a half years? I don’t know. I think people are, there’s definitely to stay in Canada. I’ve talked to the rental companies, the rental companies like. That that have rentals on both sides of the border.

They may be down slightly on the US and Canada. The rentals are up. We’re getting a lot of European travelers that are focusing on Canada at the moment. So I think the rental will be doing quite well. And which then translates, as a positive for the Campground industry as well, because they need to, they need those places to go.

Rafael Correa: Please carry the message on behalf of all of your US camp partner in Canada.

Brian Searl: Kor with us, right? That’s what you’re say, Rafael.

Rafael Correa: We do. We’d love for you to come back. It’s not us, it’s them. You know how on Now

Brian Searl: it’s them. Who’s them? Now you’re lump ’em into this group of it’s them.

Yeah.

Rafael Correa: It’s the, the lizards. It’s the lizards.

Brian Searl: No, the US is a wonderful, amazing place. So many people it does, right? Like I even am guilty of it sometimes. And I’m from the US of lumping people, whether it’s in the US or Canada or anywhere in the world, into buckets of, you voted for this guy, you didn’t vote for this guy.

So you like, it’s not that way. Like many, 90% of Americans are probably open arms to Canadians, right? It is unfortunate that sometimes it gets buried.

Rafael Correa: Yeah.

Brian Searl: In this media.

Rafael Correa: Hopefully it’s a short-lived sentiment from both sides of the border. The other thing I was curious, Eleonore I’m sorry to put you much on the spot.

Yeah, no.

We’ve seen opportunities ’cause obviously it’s a little bit soft on the RV side here. We’ve had some really great opportunities to partner with RV dealers as a Campground owner. And we’ve been setting up these mini showrooms on our campgrounds. And the RV dealers will come down.

They’ll have somebody there to tour people because you obviously, we have a qualified buyer population sitting on that property. And have you seen any more collaboration or innovation on the Canadian side? Any great ideas that maybe we can adopt down here?

Eleonore Hamm: We’re always encouraging that for our dealers to work with their Campground operators and exactly in terms of having that.

You, you’ve got a captive audience, people wanting to camp, wanting to potentially purchase an RV, they’re in your campgrounds. It’s a great opportunity for dealers to, to connect with the local Campground operator to do a showcase that. And same on the other way, if people are purchasing an RV for the dealer to have information on the local campgrounds, and we continue it works well in some areas.

In some areas a little bit less. I, I don’t know. I don’t know why sometimes there’s viewed if it’s park models, are we competing? Ultimately I think there’s room for everybody. But if you have any marketing materials that we can use or any language we.

Continue to send that message out to our dealers constantly to say this is a great opportunity. I know in Ontario we’ve got a couple campgrounds that are, close to their Niagara Falls and close to a large dealer there. And they will often, when there’s, say an open house or an event at the Campground they will invite the dealer to bring a couple units and showcase those and have the dealership staff because ultimately they’re familiar with the product and can, answer the questions of what the product line is.

And I would encourage Campground operators and dealers on both sides to, to have that connection because ultimately, the better it will ultimately help the consumer. Better experience. The consumer is. Customer. And if they can buy a product that they understand, that they know will fit in the Campground the way and use, be able to be used the way they want to use it I think everybody will have a positive experience.

Rafael Correa: I couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree more. And I think in this post COVID world, the collaboration between the RV side, both manufacturing dealer, and then ultimately the campgrounds and the end user and even the the state groups like, Nick’s Fisher Parks, we all have to be working together in this post COVID era to promote this industry and this lifestyle.

Because we do share a client and it’s an awesome customer to share that is based in this concept of community. And we, I think as we work together as a community to promote it, we can bring more people into this really special outdoor hospitality space that we all love.

Brian Searl: Is great opportunity fit, right?

This is a natural, we’ve talked about this before about private parks partnering with dealerships and many do, but this is to me a take one of your nice rigs that you have five of, you’re not missing anything on the lot to show somebody who shows up at the dealership, right? And park it on a site at a Campground for maybe the weekend only pay them the nightly rate for that site.

And then there’s signs outside that guests can go in on tours, clean your shoes, take care of the place, right? That’s a natural fit to me. If you’re anywhere within 20, 30 miles of a dealership is does, right? And there’s somebody does that, but Best Buy is working on the IKEA store concepts now store within a store, we don’t even charge ‘

Rafael Correa: em man.

We let ’em set up. it’s an amenity, right? If you think of it, it’s, but look at new cars, right? Who doesn’t love that? But if it’s taking up a site

Brian Searl: on a weekend is my point, right? They’re clearly getting value out of that. Probably more than you will long term if they sell the huge rig for a hundred thousand or whatever.

Or more. Go ahead, Scott. Sorry.

Scott Bahr: I was say that in the coming weeks, to, I’m try to squeeze this in here at the end, that we’ve done some recent research for both the RVIA as well as KOA, and it’s be coming out in the next couple weeks hopefully from both of them, as long as I can get it rolling.

But there’s some really interesting findings in there, and I can’t give out too much, but that on this topic here, one of the things that we’re really trying to focus on with the RBIA work is opportunity. What are these opportunities and how do you talk to these folks? How do you get more of these people in there?

There’s huge opportunity out there. I can’t even emphasize that enough. It’s how much opportunity there exists now. It has to the industry itself has to look at things a little bit differently. And by the way, El Eleonore, I’m start doing the research with RVDA in the us. I have a meeting with Phil tomorrow to go over some of that.

So some fun stuff that’ll be coming out of there too. And I call it data fun. I know. But it’s fun. The other thing is the sense of optimism that I think I can give this away a little, a little bit, is that there’s a, there is an uptick in optimism compared to last year at this time. That there’s a reason to be optimistic about where things are going.

I think we’re seeing from a consumer, or sorry, just

Brian Searl: to clarify, consumer dealership, Campground all,

Scott Bahr: I think for all of the above. Okay. Is that you’re starting to see that that change, you’re starting to see a little bit of a change. It’s not huge. It’s be incremental. Like all the people, the doors aren’t open, everybody’s flood in.

It’s not happen. But you’re seeing it, you’re starting to see some optimism. The one measure, we’ve talked about this a lot on outlier in the past as well, keep an eye on consumer confidence. Where that goes is where we’re going and we’ve been tracking that. And it’s been going,

Brian Searl: it’s been reversing and going up at least one month I think it was.

Scott Bahr: And even if it’s flat, even if it’s flat that’s not necessarily bad. Just pay attention to that as we, we want people, as long as people feel good about things, it is the best predictor of what they’re do. Whether they’re, whether it’s buy an RV or stay at a Campground. So those are a couple things we’re tracking.

In the coming weeks I’ll be able to talk a lot more about it. But I think there’s be some really interesting stuff. And contact Bill Baker at RVIA if you want a copy of the report that. I gave him two, two days ago.

Brian Searl: Do you have a cell phone number you wanna give out?

Scott Bahr: I sure no, kill me, but but he’s the contact there that, he’s the research contact.

Him or Monica? Either one.

Brian Searl: Kristin, is there any data we’re missing from Sage that you think we should know?

Kristin Andersen Garwood: We are about to be coming out with we already have a glamping report that we have put out. And also you can, it’s very affordable. It’s 150 bucks if you wanna do the US or if you wanna do individual states.

We are about to now launch an RV industry report. That’s be coming about and I think we’re really kinda launch it I think at the glamping show. But that’s be coming out soon. So we’re be talking about trends too, what we’re seeing, how certain amenities can affect rates.

Where different parks are at in, in stages of I think, more stabilized versus newer coming online, what’s happening. And also even talking about the mix of how we are seeing some of the newer RV parks out there, that they’re really getting a boost of ROI by including yes.

Whether it’s park model cabins or some alternative stay. Because it’s allowing people to not have to buy a big rig or a camper and enjoy all the benefits of the community, the outdoor, the amenities, et cetera of RV parks and campgrounds out there. So more to come.

Brian Searl: Nick, anything we missed from South Dakota? I know we didn’t get a chance to talk about your beautiful state too much, as much as we wanted to. Blame Simon. He got us distracted.

Nick Harrington: No, I found this conversation very interesting. And one, one thing I would say too, from my perspective, and I’ll say this hat in hand, as a 28-year-old, as we transition from generations to who are staying in our parks, we’re seeing a lot of trends.

And Eleonore I hope this isn’t a negative for you, but we’re going from some of the bigger rigs. To more of, those smaller amenities. And I will even say one thing, maybe we’re a little weird here in South Dakota, but overnight ice castles are doubling as Camping units now, and they’re doubling as RVs.

And there are people that will park these trailers out on the ice. Throughout the ice season on the water bodies and then we’ll camp out of them in the summer. So that’s an interesting trend we’re seeing with the younger families too. So that’s one thing we’ve even talked about, acclimating our customers.

Maybe there’s someone that wants to get into Camping, wants to get into our parks that aren’t familiar with it. It can be a daunting task. So I love the conversation we had about having some of these out there because that was something we discussed is, we’ll help you set up your site, we’ll help you walk through your RV.

Just breaking down those barriers to entry, I think is be really key for us as we go through this transition from that baby boomers to more those young families getting into our parks and into Camping.

Brian Searl: What does the insurance look for ice glamping? If you drag a couple huts onto the frozen pond, Rafael.

Northeast. I don’t know.

Rafael Correa: I did have the opportunity.

Brian Searl: Your reward or?

Rafael Correa: I did have the opportunity to stay in the Ice Hotel in in Sweden this past year, which was a pretty incredible experience. And it was late in the season, it was

Brian Searl: kind Did you go with Toby when she went?

Rafael Correa: Yeah, it was starting to melt on me a little bit, but but it was it was a really cool experience.

Not saying it’s something that I’m running to do to mimic that concept from a development perspective, but they had an incredible execution in that scenario.

Brian Searl: Yeah, for, it’s all about experience, right? I think we’ve talked about that much on the show. Scott and I are explore a little bit about that on Outwired here in about an hour, or what are we talk about, Scott?

Scott Bahr: Opportunities with people arriving in alternative transportation is one of the topics. Yeah.

Brian Searl: So a little bit about you’re near a major city. You’ve got all these and we’ll come with some ideas. Of unique ways you can reach out to people in the city who don’t have cars, who haven’t even crossed their mind to go glamping or to go Camping or to purchase an RV or to whatever.

How do you approach them? How do you market to them? How do you get them to your park? How do you like, get to these hotel guests who will still go to hotels, but also would be willing to change it up a little bit. Just the difference between Harvest host to a state park, to a private park to, or whatever, to cross all those traffics.

And then I’m argue that we don’t even need any marketing anymore. That’s be my standpoint from a marketing guy. I’m play devil’s advocate and say I don’t think we can do marketing anymore. I think you need experience. Brian, we just

Nick Harrington: started marketing at the state parks level two years ago, we’re still working our way through that progression.

Brian Searl: People aren’t aware of how beautiful South Dakota is yet. You’re, let’s be honest, South Dakota gets a bad rep for whatever reason. Doesn’t make any sense to me. It’s a beautiful state, but it’s not, I don’t know if it’s not enough people up there to go up there, but.

And

Nick Harrington: that’s what we’re trying to showcase is all the experiences you can have here. All the beautiful different areas we have within the state. It’s not Mount Rushmore. We have the Missouri River, we have Glacial Lakes region. So there we go, Brian. We’re near the end, but we got my plugin for South Dakota.

Brian Searl: Good. There we go. All we’ll work on it more for you in the coming episodes, Nick. But seriously I want to spend more time and Koto too. Sounds good. Areas that are underserved and never throughout the United States. All right, let’s go around for final thoughts. Kristin, any final thoughts?

And then where can they learn more about Sage?

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Yeah. Our website has a plethora of information and we are at almost every single conference out there. Also, anybody can through our website, set up a free chat with me. Pick my brain. I’d love to hear about your project, share a little bit about us if we can possibly help you out.

And try to give you a little bit of insight or steer you in the direction.

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thank you for being here, Christian. I appreciate your expertise and your insights, Simon.

Simon Neal: Yeah, nothing much else outside. I think it was a great discussion today. And if you wanna find out any information about Camp Map, head to camp map.com.

I can contact us there.

Brian Searl: Thanks, Simon. We’ll be in touch soon with your Canadian Park code. Work on it for you, man. I promise. Nick, South Dakota,

Nick Harrington: again, thank for having me. Our state parks are open. We’re open for opportunity. Please come check them out. We have a variety of amenities, a variety of facilities, whether it’s Western South Dakota, Northeast Southeast, or along the Missouri River here.

We want you to come, we want you to have a great time and don’t be afraid to reach out gfp.sd.gov. That’s our website. Come find all out all about our parks.

Brian Searl: All right, we’ll take care of you, Nick, and if for whatever reason in the event that we fail you can come join Canada, we’ll take care of you up here too.

Nick Harrington: I, that sounds terrific,

Brian Searl: Eleonore.

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me. It was actually, it was interesting to hear from the outdoor hospitality and especially from the risk management side what’s being done and how that will help RV consumers. If anybody wants to reach out to me, our website’s rvda.ca and hopefully we’ll see you next month.

Brian Searl: Thanks, Eleonore. Appreciate it. Rafael.

Rafael Correa: Yeah, I wanna jump in and echo Scott’s hinting at increased optimism. I think we’re seeing it in actual booking data. And I kinda want to echo that, and I think that hopefully the tide is shifting and that we’re start having, instead of a headwind, a little bit of a tailwind going into next year.

That’s what I’m hopeful for. And then the other data point to share is that, the vacation rentals, especially deluxe cottage park models for us have been a real shining star as far as performance this year. I think that’s a, the people are catching on to this way of traveling that is in a hotel room.

They may not be RVs, but they want to have that cap crown community experience and it’s such a great gateway that gives you all the comforts of home. And I’m really excited for that trend as it’s developing, as well as we’re seeing it.

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think Scott and I share the sentiment.

Scott will give us final thoughts in a second, but I think that’s what our whole premise of our episode is there’s many more people if they were exposed. Two, a private Campground to a state park, to a glamping resort, two, whatever, who have never thought about it before. And Earl is a big thing with black folks camp too.

But there are lots of different demographics beyond that who are the same way of all races, colors, creeds, sizes, gender, everything else. If they just, they’ve never, it’s never crossed their mind before. And I think if we open the door to them, man, there’s a ton of people that could fill these parks.

Got,

Scott Bahr: If much Kristin, we have some resources too. We have a resource library. We should probably talk sometime Kristin about

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Yeah, we should.

Scott Bahr: Cause everything on our, yeah, we try to offer up a lot of publicly available information and we put, we don’t post our stuff on there.

So if you go to our website, karen consulting group.com, there’s a resource library that you can tap into. There’s a lot of the stuff that I’ve done with Brian as well on there. So there’s, a lot of information. Please feel free, and I’ll echo what Kristin said too. Please reach out. I talking to people.

We’re research data people. We don’t always get a chance to get out much. Push to the back room. Sometimes you can anyway. But yeah, to, and to echo what Brian talked about, there’s huge opportunity and that’s one of the things that we’ve talked about a lot is this leisure traveler who wants an experience or maybe wants an experience they don’t know about yet.

This is why hotels are getting the glamping. It’s not because it’s because they see glamping and our industry and what Rafael was talking about too is that they’re providing it’s, that’s the threat to them. So that’s why they’re doing this. And the last thing on that transportation thing, a little teaser for what we’re talk about, is that 10% of people who don’t camp don’t do because they don’t have transportation.

That’s a lot of people.

Brian Searl: You were supposed to save that exclusive thing for Outwired man.

Scott Bahr: It’s a teaser.

Brian Searl: Now nobody’s watch.

Scott Bahr: You’re a marketer.

Brian Searl: Come on man.

Scott Bahr: That’s over. But we’re talk a little bit more about the 10%.

Rafael Correa: Oh wait, there’s more.

Scott Bahr: But wait.

Brian Searl: Alright. Thank for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

Really appreciate it. If aren’t sick and tired of hearing, me and Scott, we’ll be on Outwired in about an hour-ish. So talking about all the things that we previously stated. Thank you to Kristin, Simon, Nick, Eleonore, Rafael Scott again, and I don’t know, myself, I dunno what I do here. I talking to mic and don’t give any good insights.

But I appreciate being here for another episode of m MC Fireside Chats. We’ll see later.

Everyone: Bye.