MC Fireside Chats – August 30th, 2023

[00:00:00] Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of [00:01:00] MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Sr. With Insider Perks sitting outside ’cause it’s outdoor hospitality, but also with rain droplets. So if you see me run away screaming in terror like the witch from Wizard of Oz, then the rest of these beautiful, fine, talented gentlemen we’ll be taking over the show and making it much better than I would.

Anyway, so super excited to be here for a fifth week episode. Kind of one of those unusual things where we don’t have recurring guest planned, but we do have some special guests with us today. We’ve got Jason Witting, right? Is it Witting or Whiteing? 

Jason Whiting: Whiting.

Brian Searl: Okay. See, that was my instinct and then I read it and I was like missing the is a trick.

Jason Whiting: Yep, no worries. 

The president of Pento Recreation here to share a little bit about his company, as well as some of the stock history you might delve into and how we got into the business. And then Nicholas and Is Courtney here? Nicholas, I saw, I felt like I saw Courtney and then she disappeared.

Nicholas Denaro: She was, and then she disappeared. She’s she camera shy. 

Brian Searl: Okay. All right. We’ll assume that Courtney’s there guiding all your answers. She’s probably, we’ll, just, she’s the brains behind the operation. Is that fair to say? 

Nicholas Denaro: She’s definitely the [00:02:00] brains behind the operation, but I lucked out with this time.

She’s cleaning the cabinets and bathrooms, 

Brian Searl: all right. All right. We’re excited to welcome Nicholas and Courtney, owners of the Ridge Campground, and then Scott Hubble from New Camp RV, c e o. There. I’m gonna talk a little bit about his business and things like that, and then who knows where the conversation will go from there. So who wants to raise their hand and start first, look at all these people who are so brave. 

Jason Whiting: Got in the investing industry right away and spent the first 20 years of my career in the stock market. Loved it. Mondays, I didn’t complain about it, didn’t feel like work. And then the first 18 years were really great. And then the last two I was just getting burnt out for a bunch of reasons.

So I started thinking about, what’s maybe next? And I decided I still love business and I don’t have any other skills outside of business. So instead of buying tiny slices of businesses via stocks maybe I’d buy the entire business. And try to implement some of the stuff I’ve learned about good businesses and running business businesses from being a stock investor in my own [00:03:00] business.

And I ended up picking RV parks and campgrounds. We can get into why I thought it was a good idea. And I was hemming and hawing about leaving. And then I guess you could say I got lucky. They they fired about a third of our division. And I was part of that. If you’re ever gonna do it, that’s the time to do it.

I had no, no job to clinging to. About three years ago I made the transition. I bought our first park in London, Ontario. It’s about two hours west of Toronto. And then a year later, all the way across the province to the east, I bought a park in Ottawa. And that’s where we are right now.

So I own park in Ottawa and park in London, Ontario, and I’ve been doing it for three years. But, so that’s my background and happy to dive into, either is it a, why I got here, or how I’ve been finding these sort of initial transition to running real businesses. 

Brian Searl: So I think for sure, I want to dive a little bit into the stock market aspect, like we talked about, as well as what drove you specifically from an investment perspective to RV and campgrounds.

I wanna come back to that though, after we’ve had the other two people briefly and talk about their businesses, right? Because I feel like that’s a longer [00:04:00] conversation that we can have that everybody may be able to join in on. But tell us specifically about your, why those two locations, how did you end up purchasing, just assuming we get to the point later, right?

How you got to campgrounds, why in those locations what makes them special or different? 

Jason Whiting: Yeah, so I’m not like some well bus business owners or even the bigger RV park companies, I didn’t decide to have, we’re only this, I’m only gonna be, high-end seasonals. I’m only gonna be whatever, a family Campground, licensing KLAS or Jelly stones.

I, I was more agnostic. As a business person, I just sort, I wanna buy a good business at a reasonable price. Okay. And I think it could be a lot of different things. What I liked about those London’s a pretty big town. It’s about a half a million people has a major university, so it’s a solid town.

And Ottawa’s, the nation’s capital of Canada, obviously huge town growing. So it’s not just the government town, it’s, pretty big into tech and stuff. And we are the second closest park to downtown London and the third closest park to [00:05:00] downtown Ottawa. And all the parks closer than us are government run.

So I just think they’re extremely unique locations near very good cities. And that’s a great place to be long term. So there’s and then the other thing was the price I paid. And we can get into details why these parks were available at the price of, I thought they were.

Reasonably priced parks mostly on a price per site, price per acre basis with turnaround potential. That’s why I had to value it more off a land and site value as opposed to a cash flow. ’cause they were under, under invested under, they’re under their full potential. So that was the opportunity.

The cap rates didn’t look great going in, but I thought there were lots of room to improve the parks. We’re going there fits and starts, generally go in the right direction. But anyway, I can talk about more how they develop. That’s the main thing was location. It’s real estate.

And I like both those parks ’cause of the great location. 

Brian Searl: Everything is always fits and starts with business, isn’t it? You always go in with a plan and then it always changes and adapt. You have to adapt and modify and you never get where you want as quick as you wanna go to. At least that’s how I 

feel.

Jason Whiting: But yeah, I think Mike Tyson said it best was everyone has a plan in the ring until they get punched in the [00:06:00] face. So that’s like business oh, I had a great plan and then whoop the market punched me in the face. In reality. So I, and you just have to roll with it. So it’s been a learning experience for 

sure.

Brian Searl: And I own a couple businesses. But and I’ve been punched in the face a couple hundred times. But I feel like if you own a business and you haven’t punched in the face, and you know what that means, right? It’s not the literal, like Mike Tyson, if you run a business, but if you haven’t been punched in the face yet, you probably should be looking around corners ’cause it’s coming.

Jason Whiting: Absolute. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I just, I guess the punching in the face is more the sleepless nights is the way I did it. Oh 

Brian Searl: yeah. So It’s not what I mean. 

Jason Whiting: Our version of it. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, everybody has their different version of it, but let’s talk to you Nicholas real quick about, oh, the Ridge Campground Nicholas, you wanna introduce yourself, talk about your Campground and if there’s wind noise in the background, somebody just tell me and I’ll mute my microphone.

I try, I’m trying to block it a little bit. 

Nicholas Denaro: So Nick, Nicholas, Denaro. Nick, I go by Nick. Me and my wife bought the Ridge Campground of the November, 2021. We sold our family home and lived in our camper for a bit, and found this sitting around the, she found it sitting around the fire. I was sleeping [00:07:00] and I resigned from my work.

I worked for a water utility in Nova Scotia for 14 years. My last seven, I was a supervisor, the treatment plant distribution of dams, and I got tired of what I was doing. And needed a change for my mental health and, a family. And so we thought selling the house with a three year old or two and a half year old was a good idea.

And anyway, we found this place that was within our budget and we drove all in. And again, we had lots of ideas that things, we can do this bang bang, and it’s it’s a family Campground. But, we’ve got all kinds of guests here. It’s a smaller Campground.

We have 45 three-way service sites, a bunch of unserviced sites and nine cabins rusted cabins. But we’re on 81 acres. The infrastructure’s all good bones. It’s good, nice like good infrastructure underground. So there’s lots of room to grow. Highly high yield welds wells. So I shouldn’t need any more wells and.

Maybe a little bit more treatment or tanks and stuff, but yeah, we just, we weren’t bit like, don’t have a business background. My wife has like an admin business kind of college degree. She works for the hospital [00:08:00] and mine’s a utility base, so I was just spending money. I’m good at it, but but yeah, something different.

We, we love to camp and, we love people and just we’ve got the time and the energy and but we’ve been certainly getting punched in the face, that’s for sure. The interest rates aren’t helping us, but, we’re getting through. It’s all good. 

Brian Searl: And we, again, we’ll talk about what we talked about before the show, right?

But we’re with a little bit about the challenges that Nova Scotia specifically has faced this year in a few. But it is interesting to me what you say about how, you used to work for the water utility company, I think, and I’d love to hear your guys, Scott, I promise we’ll get to your introduction in a second.

But just it’s interesting to me because you hear of. And I’m sure this happens in other industries, right? With hotels and people who own, who open up coffee shops and stuff like that. But I feel like disproportionately, we hear more about this in outdoor hospitality. Campground owners, RV park owners, glamping resort owners, people who worked for X job for so long and then decided they were just gonna quit that job and then go into RV parks and campgrounds.

I feel like there’s more people who do that than quit their jobs and go into something [00:09:00] else midlife as a complete like 180 direction change. And I don’t know if that’s disproportionate because I work in the industry and probably talk to more people than anyone else. But how did you make that pivot?

How did you decide? Obviously there’s probably a love for Camping, right? That we hear from everybody, but yeah, why not? Why not a donut shop? Man? Why not a pizza place? 

Nicholas Denaro: I don’t like, I like to cook food for me, but I don’t know. I literally, that, that’s all my skills is, I did sub boxing too, but I wasn’t very good at it.

But my only skills were that utility, what I know, water treatment and distribution, that sort of stuff. That’s what I went to school for. So I wasn’t sure what my next career was gonna be. And we started looking at campgrounds and cottages while we had the house and just realized that financially it wasn’t feasible.

We, we needed. And that then the Nova Scotia market, we looked at putting our house on the market and we couldn’t get enough for it to really put us anywhere we needed to be, so it wasn’t worth it. And then the market went foolish here. And so we said, all right, let’s go. So we sold the house with no destination in mind.

[00:10:00] And we’ve been to Digby several times, but we This one just happened to come up like the day before Courtney found it on viewpoint, and we both took the next day off work, drove down, had a look and said, yeah, let’s let’s put an offer in and see what happens. 

Brian Searl: It was that quick? 

Jason Whiting: Yeah, 20 minutes.

We left here 20 minutes and we called the bank and or our agent and said, put the offer in and we’ll figure it out. This 

begs the question then, what was so special about the Ridge Campground that you were like, I need it right now? 

The infrastructure and the property size, like all the buildings are big.

I mean everything needs work and we found a lot of things that we’re hiding in the behind the curtains, but We just, we liked the size of the lots. They were nice big lots. And we contemplated kind of building our own but the cost of the underground electrical and all that stuff, like we just, and buying the land and everything, we just didn’t think that we could swing that.

So it had a little bit of everything, the unserviced, the lots of woods a few cabins, a pool, big rec hall two [00:11:00] wash two big washroom buildings. So it was, and it was in our budget and it’s what we wanted to do. So we, there was a couple other campgrounds we looked at, and we just, we couldn’t afford the down payment ourselves, and we wanted to do it ourselves.

So this one was within our budget. And once we saw their financials and stuff we figured it was under promoted and under. That we could do better. So that’s been our drive and force is to do better. And we’re having, we had two. Good last season was good. The season’s picked up and it’s good.

And hopefully we got a few more and these interest rates come down, make it easier on us, but I, yeah, just we’re just just everybody thought we were crazy, I tell you that. 

Brian Searl: That’s, everybody still thinks I’m crazy. I’m to be clear, but they’re probably wrong about you. But I do wanna talk, maybe we can talk, throw that into the discussion about stocks leader Jason. cause I feel like you would obviously agree with everybody that not researching an investment is the best way to invest. Just 20 minutes fine stock. 

Jason Whiting: [00:12:00] Yeah. I was a fundamental investor. So yeah, that’s my personality is spend days and days researching companies and talking to competitors and management teams and that was my personality.

But it’s a little different. Yeah. ’cause you have build control over stock. Like I know you can sell it instantly, so that, that’s really helps. But you have no control. At least with a business you buy, you have a hundred percent way more control over the Yeah. So that gives you, Hey, I’ll just, I can figure this out.

If you buy a bad business with management or something, they’re just gonna keep screwing and screwing you and you can’t do much about it with your own thing. You find a little surprise when you open up a electrical box. Like it sucks, but you just fix it. So that’s the nice thing. About a hundred percent ownership over stocks 

for sure.

Brian Searl: That’s a fair point. Okay. I was being a little sarcastic, but that was a really serious answer. So thank you. Scott, tell us about New Camp RV. 

Scott Hubble: Sure. I had a little bit in common with Jason and a little not in common. He went to school and figured out pretty quickly what he wanted to do. I went to school and figured out what I didn’t wanna do, so I spent a year lean towards [00:13:00] success though, right?

Yeah. Failing forward is what I call it. I figured out I didn’t want to be an electrical engineer after a year. Then I pivoted and just finished up with Mar an accounting degree and I figured out my senior year I don’t wanna be an accountant either I figured Why not law?

So I went to law school and after my first year there and I said, I don’t want to be a lawyer, but I’m not gonna quit a race halfway in or a third of the way in. So I started my M B A concurrently and finished that off. M B A just came normal to me. Business was just very easy and I thought the world would be waiting for me.

When I graduated. I was student body president. I had a host of degrees, I was ready to roll and it was crickets. So I just hustled and I got picked up a job job. I probably could have had four years previous to all that education. And like Jason after a little while into it got a pink slip, just said, Hey, you’re overqualified.

You’re asking too much. There’s not really a place for you here anymore. We gave you a go. But we’re setting you free. And that’s exactly [00:14:00] what it was. It was Them doing something I didn’t necessarily have the guts to do for myself. So in that, where there was a host of opportunities, because then the door opened up and the market was there that I anticipated would’ve been there.

And, I had a variety of selections of jobs, but in the meantime I had been working doing some consulting on the side with a fe fellow friend of mine who went to the same school and stumbled over an opportunity to consult with a teardrop trailer distributor and got in there just doing, 10 hours a week.

And then they just kept feeding me more and figured out, Hey, this is this is a game. This is fun. I’m using all the skills that I picked up through my M B A and I’m able to execute on different levels from, marketing to operations, what have you. And got to the point where they said, we just need you full-time here.

And so I had to choose between that job, a state job, a county job, the jobs that had, great [00:15:00] benefits, good money, or this one that basically only had blue sky. And I chose the blue sky. The flexibility, the fun, and it’s been great ever since. After I made that selection, started digging down a little bit deeper into who is the manufacturer what are they doing?

’cause they were doing a ton of things wrong. And you know what? I met an Amish man in Sugar Creek, Ohio, and he was going all over the place. I like this. Okay. He was building some teardrops on his own some very classic retro type teardrops. And the ones that we were focused on distributing were, more modern cheaper.

And but I got to talking with him and he, it was 2008, he was going through it. He basically just shut his doors and he couldn’t hack it anymore. And I said, you know what? I need somebody who’s innovative like you, who’s got a heart for quality, a heart for people. They care about the end consumer.

What would you think about building everything? For our operation. [00:16:00] And he was like, Hey I’m all for it. So in 2009, we made that jump together and since then we’ve gone from just a couple hundred teardrops a year to a few thousand every year. And added some truck campers along the way.

It’s been a, it’s been a blast. I haven’t worked a day in the last, what is that now, 15 years. Met a lot of great people along the way. And it, and at the end of the day, this is an industry whether doesn’t matter what part you’re in, it’s all about people. And it’s connecting in the community and just letting people live to their best abilities.

And that’s just really empowering, I think, for everybody here at this operation. 

Brian Searl: So this is interesting to me, and I wanna dive into in a second more about what New camp. RV, creates and manufactures and how they’re different and all those kinds of things. And I know you touched on that with the Amish quality build quality, but I think there’s a lot of different places we can go there.

But first, and I would love to hear everybody’s thoughts on this here. And Jason, you touched on [00:17:00] it. To me, this is very interesting because it also is the same path I followed, generally speaking. Figuring out what you, some people stumble into it like Jason did early on. Some people have to fail to figure it out, which is me and sounds like it was Scott.

Not fail, but learn what doesn’t, what you don’t wanna do. Which to me is failing, but failing in a good way. And I think it’s very interesting to look to step back holistically sometimes and think about all the little things that had to go, all the little ways to end up where you exactly.

Are not working a day in your like, ’cause that’s me too, right? I’ve worked 16 to 18 hour days for the last 15 years, but I’ve never worked. And I feel like it’s really interesting to see how we get to that path and so many things. I was exploring this I think a few months ago with my girlfriend.

We were just thinking back, like I was thinking back to how like all the little things, like one little tiny thing could have been different. And I never would’ve been here despite my work ethic and All right. [00:18:00] So any thoughts on that very broad topic of how we got where we are today? 

Scott Hubble: I don’t know about you guys, but I planned my life when I was 18.

I knew where I was going. I knew how I was marrying, I knew how I was gonna graduate. I knew exactly what I’d be doing, where I’d be living, all those things. And yeah massive oh 100 on that checklist. And it couldn’t be a better story for me, frankly. Yeah. So am I. I’m. Yeah. And then just circumstances throughout your life, they reshape your perspectives.

They break you they teach you lessons. So you just your eyes are open in a totally different way. Your ignorance is revealed to you, and then you start learning and listening to other people, and that’s when you really see those opportunities. And I had to get fired, not once. I’ve been fired twice.

And I tell people all the time, awesome stuff. I loved it. It didn’t shake me the day that it happened. I wasn’t grateful for it, but that took me a little bit. But I highly recommend getting fired. [00:19:00] You change your life in a great way. 

Brian Searl: And you’re right though that you’ve hit the nail on the head with the opportunities, right?

Because if you hadn’t gone through those things, and I, obviously, I’m speculating from an outside perspective, so feel free to correct me, right? But if you hadn’t have gone through those things, then you may never have seen the opportunity with the Amish guy who was making the better quality trailer.

Scott Hubble: Hundred percent. 

Brian Searl: And all that just stacks. And it’s crazy how much it it’s a Jenga block of, 

Nicholas Denaro: it’s not working if you’re having fun. That’s what I’ve been finding here. I was always working at the utility and, just put all, put everything into it to no end. No end other than, a good paycheck.

I worked my way up the ladder and then I was like, this ladder’s not for me. That’s what I went to school for, but I gotta find my way off this thing. And it took me, took us a few years to figure it out and then I. Then we just figured it out 

Brian Searl: and I think maybe that’s part of, we’ve gone full circle here a little bit where we talked about, what, how do you decide the quitting of the utility company or generally whatever, right?

To pivot halfway through your life. Resign. I like the word resign. [00:20:00] Resign. Sorry, I apologize. But yeah, it’s interesting though now that we’re thinking about this in this way. Maybe that’s why there are more people who go into the RV Park Campground space because that gives them that freedom to enjoy the outdoors, to feel like I think there’s a disproportionately larger number of people, and this is coming from somebody who doesn’t own a Campground or RV Park, right?

Who sits in an office most of the day working on marketing, advertising, tech, ai, stuff like that, right? And I love the outdoors too, but a disproportionate number of people who can blend their passion with their work. And it’s an easier way I. Not work-wise, right? But an easier way to find something that you really, truly can enjoy.

Is that a fair statement, Nicholas? Or.

Nicholas Denaro: Yeah. Yeah. No, like we get to meet a lot of great folks. Know my young fellows going to, wasn’t in pre preschool or primary preschool there for the bit for the first of last year. So I gotta spend a lot of time with him, which I didn’t have the option for my eight hour [00:21:00] day.

I was, I never saw him, so I was impeded some of the work, but we had more fun than, and then when he was in day daycare was what I was looking for when he is in daycare, then, I get to do some stuff and then he full-time daycare this year. So had a lot more time to pick off some of the stuff on my list.

But yeah, it’s just, but when you’re doing things like I pick what I want to do, right? There’s things that have to get done, but it’s like I have a list of things I want to do here to make it better and it’s, I. It’s not really work, and then every once in a while I need a little bit of help or I’ll bring somebody in to help me when it’s outside my capabilities.

But it’s, you get to pick and choose what I want to do within reason and it’s, I could work all day or work for an hour or go talk to some guests or have friends come down to camp and I can hang out and chit chat and it’s just a different, it’s a lifestyle I guess, more so than work.

Brian Searl: I think it’s, yeah. I think it’s also important to say we’re not saying it’s easy. We’re saying that it’s different. It’s not really work. ’cause there are [00:22:00] struggles still, right? There are obstacles you have to overcome. And Jason, feel free to touch on this. You’ve been quiet, but I feel like you can definitely shed some.

Interesting perspective on this. How do you see it from your side? 

Jason Whiting: Yeah, I I, two thoughts. One is on the easy part. Yeah. It’s, I describe it as like having kids owning a business. There are moments of incredible joy. There are moments of absolute anger and frustration. And, but overall it’s rewarding is the word I use, right?

You’re built with your kids, right? You’re trying to have ’em grow up to be, functioning adults and move on. And it’s a rewarding process as you see ’em, first they start to walk and then they like, oh, they make friends, and all of sudden they’re bringing a girlfriend home and it’s very cool, but it’s also incredibly frustrating the whole way.

And a business is the same way, like you’re raising a child and. And there are moments. Yeah I just go crazy or I don’t sleep. But at the end when you cons, when you manage to step back and in Canada we’re seasonal, right? We have the winters, we’re shut down. You can get a little distance from the business.

You are like, hey, it’s cool. Everything didn’t go like I wanted it to last year, but we [00:23:00] still built something, it’s gotten better. We maybe took two steps forward and went back, but we still took one forward total and like we’re just, I’m just building something cool. And yeah.

So it’s been a great experience. Rewarding is how I describe it. And then just about the challenges, I think you guys are all bang on about how you just, you seem like we all approach it the same way. And I like quotes, so just, I’ll throw another quote out there. But, problems are just opportunity and workflow.

So that’s it. It is like they’re not bad or good or anything. They’re just, Hey, here’s a problem, let’s solve it. How do I not make the same mistake again? How do I get better the next time? Cool. Now when I see it, I’m stronger from ’em. And sometimes it doesn’t feel like that in the moment. It feels really awful, but again, getting laid off doesn’t feel good.

A lot of this stuff, a guest gives you a one star review, doesn’t feel good, but you come out of it stronger and you’re a better person from it. And that’s what I’ve always approached all these problems, just like there are opportunities eventually and I think it’s always made me stronger.

And it sounds like you guys have had similar experiences. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. I think you learn, you have to learn that lesson the hard way. And nobody’s saying that. I’m still learning lessons every single day, so [00:24:00] no one’s saying I’m better or Scott’s better, or you’re better. We’re still learning those same things. We just have maybe learned them over it’s 15 years for me. So I think it’s interesting perspective about the child though. ’cause I think I agree with that too. Maybe like you go through, ’cause it’s the beginning, it’s way harder. You’re 1, 2, 3, 4, when. The terrible twos of the child are there. And then they grow up a little bit and can actually communicate with you better. And it’s a little bit easier, but still a struggle. And yeah. And then maybe you have a few years of peace before they become a teenager, then it’s all chaos again.

But yeah, I mean it’s definitely interesting. So let’s Scott, tell us about, I wanna give you a chance to talk about new camp for a second before we pivot and maybe talk a little bit about stocks and get into some Jason’s expertise. 

Scott Hubble: Yeah. New camp we’re the world’s largest manufacturer of teardrop trailers.

Again we started in a three car garage in 2009 and slowly built out from there. 400 units, 1100 units so on and so forth. Over the course of the last, [00:25:00] 14 years, just sustained growth. I’m sure there’s Two or three years there where it’s just flatlined.

But just been blessed to sit in this niche of the industry where we just grew like crazy. And then I think some people took note and started seeing things extremely similar to us. Started seeing some of the unique things that we were doing employed on other units.

And you don’t take that as a threat. You take it as a compliment and then you also take it as hey, we can’t be complacent and sit here and just keep thinking that what is, what got us here is gonna keep us here. Let’s level up. Let’s look at some different outlets. And that’s why we pivoted into the truck camper market.

It was a very similar community, a tight knit community. Ba it doesn’t matter who builds the truck camper. If Jason has one and Nicholas has one and they roll in and it’s two different manufacturers, they’re automatically like brothers because they’re truck camper guys, right? It’s the same thing with teardrop.

Owners doesn’t matter if it’s a new camp or something else, they’re automatically identify with each other [00:26:00] and there’s that cool sense of community. So we saw that opportunity, so we livened up that market. It was old and dusty and squared off for so long. And so we brought a truck camper that was very fashion forward and European design inspired, but infused with Amish cabinetry and just redefined a lot of it.

And that sort of goes to our people, the outside, a lot of our designs Euro inspired very much. Sometimes it’s color, it’s shape, it’s it’s sourcing components. Some of our key partners that we employ are overseas in Europe and But on the inside of the unit, our calling card is our cabinetry, and we’ve got a rich furniture residence here.

A lot of furniture sold, indoor, outdoor a lot of different kind of woods are employed, so there’s tons of craftsmen in the area. And there’s just a great opportunity. We actually have for lack of a better term, a mill in the middle of our production facility.

We’ve got just full service woodworking department and we, we [00:27:00] don’t chin so in the cabinets, it, they’re re it’s real wood. It’s just solid. It’s not gonna flake, it’s not gonna fall apart. It’s not particle board, it’s not any of the M D F stuff. It’s just great. And it’s one of those things where these individuals, when they show up they’re like, Hey, everything I touch, I.

I might as well write my name on it. I’m proud of what I did. I’m not here just for the paycheck per se. I’m here to contribute to the community. So it’s a really cool environment to be in. This area’s very sparsely populated. But they’re here to just give their best and for us to all walk this road together.

I came from originally Jacksonville, Florida, bounce surround a little bit, and then did a lot of college in the northeast Ohio, Akron, Canton area. This is about an hour south of that. So I came from, I think you’re talking about London being a half million probably Akron can’t combined, might be pushing a half million.

A lot of.

Brian Searl: Just to insert briefly, I was born in Akron too, so we continue. 

Scott Hubble: Oh, really? Small world. Nice. So anyhow, coming down here was like a [00:28:00] different world and, a different pace. Not that it’s not hard work, but it’s more appreciation for, creation. What’s around us, right?

What can we grow out of the ground? And not just what can we consume off the shelves? So it was just like mind shift for me. But all in all, we exist to build the exceptional, and that’s from the products to the processes that we have, but most importantly, to the people that are part of this team and that purchase our product.

So that, that is New Camp.

Brian Searl: How do you, and I’m curious, there’s a larger question behind this, right? But how did you, in the beginning, or when did you pivot to decide that European design. On the outside was the way to go, because I feel like we’re seeing a lot of this, and I don’t know how much you pay attention to the glamping market too, but we’re seeing a lot of this, and it’s interesting to me, the tents and manufacturers and concepts and things that are brought over from Europe over to North America.

And I’m very interested to understand if you think they’re actually better [00:29:00] or do you think it’s just because they’re different and the North American market hasn’t seen it yet that makes it successful or both? 

Scott Hubble: Yeah, I tell you it’s a little bit of both. The way that we, I stumbled into it probably is that an opportunity was presented before us.

When we started building, we were doing the traditional retro, nostalgic teardrops, very classic 1930s inspired. It had a little line of modern stuff, but it wasn’t Euro modern. And I. The Operation Dutchman. They had a unit called the tab that they had acquired the manufacturing and marketing rights to from a company called Tabbert.

It’s one of, part of one of the big, RV Conglomerations over there, Carvana conglomerations over there. And it just, Dutchman said, Hey, it doesn’t work for us. We need to be able to build at least 5,000 units. We’re not able to touch that. Do you wanna buy, our leftover inventory and the distribution of manufacturing rights for pennies on the dollar?

And we said a hundred percent. [00:30:00] So in a sense, that design was given to us. We started running with that in 2011. And then everything from that point, we took that and the lines and the springboard off of it and started reaching out overseas and employing windows, employing hydronic heating systems.

And to your question though is it better, is it a perception? What is it? The way that they approach Camping is really totally different. It’s a romantic experience. 

Brian Searl: That’s what I was, and I don’t mean to interrupt you, but that’s what I was gonna say is you’re sitting here talking, I’m thinking like, okay, glamping, but there hasn’t really been a huge thing for teardrop trailers in North America, probably before you started, before you brought this here.

So there’s a little niche market, and so I think that’s the same thing we’re seeing happening in glamping, whereas they’re a little bit ahead of us in teardrops and in glamping, or were in teardrops and now are in glamping. And I think that’s maybe why more of it’s coming over here for those two specific verticals.

Scott Hubble: Yeah. I think there in, in many aspects Europe [00:31:00] paces, whether it’s a couple years or five years ahead of us in certain trends. But yeah they’re far ahead of us. In the RVs, honestly. But 

only in the small ones, right? Because there’s like the, they don’t have the huge class a’s, as I 

understand it, over in Europe.

They don’t there’s not a whole lot of motorized or monster, fifth wheels or anything just because the roads frankly don’t accommodate it. It’s not their lifestyle, it’s not what they’re looking to do. They don’t even have AC in most of these things over there. But with that said, the fit the finish we think we do a pretty good job.

You go and see a fit and finish at the Dusseldorf show of a similar unit, you jaw hits the floor. They just do a fantastic job. 

Jason Whiting: Maybe I can jump in. ’cause I, I think, and your unit volume show this, Scott, but I think there’s tons of room for innovation in the North American market. We just, anecdotally you see it at our parks, it’s just the RV’s coming in, it’s box.

And then an Airstream come in, comes in, and people just all stare and look at it and people are talking about it. And then you see the [00:32:00] resale values for Airstreams, things from the seventies trading at 40, $50,000, obviously restored and stuff. But that’s just one, that’s a niche example, Airstream, but tremendously successful.

But I just think there’s so much more room for innovation and design and amenities, features and all that in the market. Everything’s just so similar. Obviously I think you’re seeing that with your unit volumes, you’re onto it, but yeah I would think there’s great opportunities still for that.

Brian Searl: I think that’s for everything, right? So like you’re talking about the rigs, but we’re talking about from my perspective, right? I look at it from a marketing advertising perspective. Nicholas, when he acquired his spark, looked at it from, I think I could do better than. What I’m purchasing it for, obviously, or you wouldn’t have bought it.

But I think there’s a lot of low hanging fruit in our industry as a whole in probably the world, but my experience is more North America, so I’m gonna stay in my lane. I think there’s a lot of good things out there. There’s a lot of people who are innovating, but I think that the pace of innovation, or perhaps maybe the number of people who are innovating for whatever reason, is just lower than the hotel industry, for example.

And so I think you’re right. You’ve hit maybe the nail on the [00:33:00] head with everything right is there so much opportunity for growth here and we just need a few more leaders to lead us down that path. Is that fair? 

Scott Hubble: It, I know it’s fair. And if you look at the the composition of the RV market, you’ve got, two and you could say three very large entities, and they’ve got a proven process.

And it’s worked for them for years. So why do you pivot away from a formula that has continued? You don’t but there’s room for other people to, right? Correct. But so I. Sit in a sliver that’s approximately, 7%. It’s the 7% of the market where hey we can innovate all day long, but how much are we influencing the rest to make some of those moves?

And we have seen, and I’m not saying that it was us because, these guys have eyes, they follow the numbers. They go to [00:34:00] the international shows and they see what people really have the appetite for. It’s not the rectangle on wheels that the floor rots out after four years because it’s a wooden floor.

The, they want something that’s a little more appealing. You talked about glamping, the home remodel thing, it’s all big. It’s, the tiny houses, they wanna bring all that into, a modern day caravan RV, but with the quality. 

Brian Searl: Do you feel like and again, this is not an insult or a criticism of anybody who’s existing as an RV manufacturer, right?

But also it’s a transition for me too. So do you feel like that some of that hesitancy to adopt a more niche market that is unproven or unknown versus what they’ve been doing, like we talked about all these number of years, is perhaps directly related in some cases to the fact that they have investors and they’re in the stock market and they need to prove themselves and need to have certain margins.

Jason Whiting: Yeah. 

Brian Searl: I move slower. 

Jason Whiting: Yeah. Yeah. I think this is, this is classic, this is innovator’s Dilemma was a famous book, maybe [00:35:00] Good. Where it’s…

Brian Searl: I liked How did that pivot though, didn’t you? 

Jason Whiting: Yeah, it worked beautifully. Yeah, that worked well. It just, it’s almost impossible. And Malcolm Gladwell wrote about it in David v Goliath.

It’s just very hard for the incumbents to change. They’re just, They got big for a reason. They were very successful doing something and they got huge doing it. So why change? We’re geniuses. We’re huge market caps. We make big salaries as executives. It’s very difficult and almost no time in history. Look at all the automakers.

Gm, Toyota, these are massive successful companies, huge market shares, and Tesla’s the one that disrupted dvs, an absolute startup in one of the most capital intensive businesses in the world. So I just, those guys can’t do it. And think about the RV manufacturers, right? There’s just three of them, and I know why.

They’re all in Elkhart, Indiana. There’s lots of AC economies of scale and stuff, but it’s also groupthink. It’s just a bunch of guys all in the same area with all their suppliers located in the same area. There’s nothing, no one’s coming up with any new when you’re in that kind of bubble and cocoon with that kind of success.

So it has to be outsiders that are gonna innovate and then [00:36:00] maybe these guys will follow. Eventually when you know the numbers hit ’em in the head, they’re like, oh my goodness. The teardrop markets. Become much bigger. It’s growing faster or what have you, but I, they’re just, they’re not set up at all to be successful in any kind of new innovation, or very rarely.

Brian Searl: Now I think this is a whole larger, this is very interesting to me and maybe timely too, because I was watching I don’t know if you guys know who Gary Vaynerchuk is. I was, sometimes I’ll dabble in a little bit of his content here and there, but one of the things I was watching, one of his keynotes that he gave yesterday, he is a big marketing advertising guy, right?

Bestselling author, stuff like that. But he was giving a keynote. He was talking about brand safety and how everybody wants to be safe and appeal to everybody and doesn’t wanna shake up the norm and exactly what we’re talking about, right? As far as niche stuff goes and pivoting and adapting and innovating, like Tesla disrupted and everything else.

But one of the things he brought up was Toyota and like their slogan, let’s go places. What does that mean? What do you do with that? Is what do literally it’s such a generic slogan that it doesn’t, what does it bring to the brand other than safety? And so I think that lends to what you’re talking about.[00:37:00] 

Again, not criticizing Toyota because again, they’ve been very successful, but just the ability to innovate maybe just can’t be there unless they get, look at Zuckerberg copying everybody else, right? 

Jason Whiting: Yeah, that’s a slogan that feels like it came from a committee. And you just get something water down with a bunch of people that don’t, you had something.

It generally tends to be individuals who come up with ideas. When or small groups. 

Brian Searl: Scott, I think you should use, let’s go other places for your slogan that would be safe. 

Scott Hubble: I go where I’m toed to, right? 

Brian Searl: Yeah, but go ahead Scott, please. I didn’t interrupt you. Just continue. It was just interesting to me to think about that as we were.

Scott Hubble: Where was I le leaving off?

Brian Searl: I meant I’m sorry. I meant Jason, 

I apologize. 

Scott Hubble: Okay. Yeah, good. 

Jason Whiting: Sorry. Yeah. Just back on the stock market thing you mean, or? Yeah. So just in gen and in general, I guess that’s another flaw. Public companies are there’s advantages to it for sure. We can talk about that.

But there’s incredible disadvantages. The incentives are set up to be [00:38:00] incredibly short term focused. I think the average c e o of a Fortune 500 company lasts like two years. They have to report results every three months and your stock can move 20% with a bad quarter. That’s an insane way to run a business where I need to make my numbers for three months.

I, and I’m worried about my job ’cause I might last two years. So just in, so all I’m gonna do is, does it make sense? There’s a famous study that they asked CFOs, chief financial officers of big companies. Would you rather invest in a very high return on investment project? I think the numbers, 50% project, which everybody in financial go, that’s a no brainer.

Do it. Would you rather invest in that project or miss your quarter by 1 cent, one penny per share? And it was something like 80% of the would defer those projects to make their quarter. That’s insane. So how can you possibly innovate on something that might not make you revenue today when the stock market will just punish you for spending money today with no revenue?

[00:39:00] So you just lower costs, do what we always did, don’t take any chances, and just instead of trying to make it for two years as a C E O, if I can make four years at the average salary of A C E O, those two extra years are worth a ton of money. So there’s just all these incentive structures set up with public companies that are so flawed and counterproductive to long-term growth, innovation and health of companies.

And then that’s so that’s a huge disadvantage of being a public company. 

Brian Searl: Briefly, for the people who listen here who aren’t. Day traders, stock traders who don’t play in the market, who don’t know how, all that thing all those things work. Briefly, like why is there such a push for companies to go public?

Is it entirely capital driven? 

Jason Whiting: Yeah, absolutely. So there’s, that’s the major advantage. I think there’s, at least yeah, so I, I think there’s three advantages that I would bring to the RV park industry as someone who didn’t grow up into it, or there’s two, sorry, originally, and then the third one that I thought was relevant was cost of capital.

How cheap can you get, raise money? And I would, when I got into the industry I had no [00:40:00] background running a company. I was, again, I was a stock market investor, no business ownership experience. And I took out debt part, wrote half debt finance, and half with my own money equity. And the rates I got were terrible.

It was like, you were like a, if you compare it to a public stock, I was, it’s called junk rated corporate credit. That’s how bad my spreads were. Over what governments are. Yeah, I was considered a borderline bankrupt sort of company with what I had to pay, but I just, okay, I gotta establish a track record.

You build your record up, you get credibility of the bank, you’ll get next time a new and new your loan, hopefully you get better rates. So again, being public again, their cost of capital, what they could raise debt at, what they could go sell stock in the market. I, I gotta go raise money from all my money and I have one small equity partner, or from other people will be way higher than they do.

So when they’re bidding on a park, they can just pay a much higher price than I do because their cost of money is a lot cheaper than mine. So definitely there’s a huge advantage. And there’s also a liquidity advantage, right? My net worth is all tied up in something that’s [00:41:00] very hard to trade.

You have to put it on the market with a broker that charges you a huge commission and all this stuff. I ever want to get outta the RV Park industry, a stock, you can just, if I have a lot of my money tied up in a stock, I can sell it in three seconds on E-trade or any platform like that.

So again, a number of advantages being public, it’s not all bad. There’s reasons they do it that are super good. 

So I think we, we can spend maybe a few minutes here talking to Nicholas and Scott about the same thing from a diverse industry perspective, right? And don’t, you don’t have to share what you don’t want to, right?

Nicholas, of course, or anybody. But like, how do you decide loan, not loan savings, not savings, where to get your funding, how to buy, when to buy, what to buy, what your budget is, right? Those kinds of things. What goes into that from your mind, Nicholas? 

Nicholas Denaro: We had to take a, we took a federal loan just like a small business federal loan.

We had our, I forget what the percentage was for our down payment. That was personal, out of our. Savings to put into the business and it’s its own company or whatever. But yeah we had to [00:42:00] borrow just to make it happen. It’s a big number for us, but we felt it was worth it. Just, we can always sell the place.

The for sale sign’s, the next sign that goes up, I always joke, but they but no, we had to do it. So we were, we felt it was worth the risk. And then the, it’s a variable rate on our mortgage, or which we were advised to do which now we know we will never do. But it was fine when it started, but now, however many months later and the way the interest rates are going it’s a big number every month, but especially in the winter when we’re shut down like that hurts.

So like we floated this place out of our own pocket in November after we purchased it. And then once we got in, we’re like, oh yeah, there’s no revenue. This is all coming outta our pockets. Okay we’re all right. We’re all right. We’ll get it back. But one day we’ll get it back.

But it was a risk versus reward. And I think the risk is worth what we’re into now. Is the risk certainly worth what we’re into now? Just we’re building our own brand. We rebrand it and[00:43:00] just trying to get different markets and different guests travelers in different areas and figuring out how to reach like for like European travelers, like we get some, but we’re not really sure how to market ourselves to, to attract them when they’re coming over on the ferry or like they bring their European vans over and stuff.

We’re trying to hit that this winter on our off season and see how we can figure out how to get a few more. Call you? 

Brian Searl: Yeah, that’s what I do for a living is marketing advertising. 

Nicholas Denaro: Oh, okay. 

Brian Searl: I’m not about, I’m not about pay me, like literally just call me and we’ll talk. I wanna briefly go maybe into some of those risks if we have time at the end.

But Scott, to your, how did you decide? 

Scott Hubble: Yeah, hey, early on we were just building one to sell one to build another one, right? So there, there wasn’t actually hey, let’s go secure, quarter million dollars, a half, a million dollars, whatever it is, and let’s build this thing up. And out.

Joe had a small facility. He had the tools to work with. He had a network of individuals that we [00:44:00] could reach out to. So we didn’t have to make a ton of investments obviously. It was basically just get some parts in. So we just and he was extremely risk adverse with respect to debt.

’cause he had just fallen on his face. So anyway, we just sorted it one by one. As things grew, obviously, we’re dealing with floor plans from manufacturers. We’re securing line of credit from the bank. Today, I’ve got a leadership team. We sort of huddle up, we say, Hey, what do we wanna do?

How do we wanna make these expenditures? How do we wanna invest? But one thing that we do is we don’t necessarily. And it might sound a little foolish at times, but when we’re developing a product or a service we’re gonna estimate what our investment’s gonna be, right? But we’re not going to say, you know what?

This unit’s gonna cost X. And then go into it. What we say is, Hey, we want to deliver this product, which is X, Y, Z, and whatever that ends up being that [00:45:00] ends up being now obviously there’s a cap to that, right? You can price yourself out of a market, but we’ve positioned ourself, Nicholas talked about, rebranding himself.

Like we’ve branded ourselves. Hey, highest quality RV, we’re in the space. If you look at teardrops, you’re gonna pay a pretty penny for our stuff. And the reason is that we’re gonna put some really good stuff in it. We’re not gonna, we’re not gonna chin, we’re not gonna spare and any expense on doing that.

So that’s how we approach, Hey, What’s the investment going to be? Hey, let’s look at the product. What does the market want? What does the market bear? We’ll do that and work our way back into it. 

Brian Searl: It’s, yeah, it’s interesting how we all get here on our own different paths, right? Like for me, like I never took a loan, I never got an investment.

It was all credit card for me, right? That was all where I and obviously in hindsight, I started this in 2009 when I was young, not old like I am now. In hindsight, I. Probably could have found a better way to not pay 22% interest on credit card rewards and [00:46:00] all that kind of stuff. Jason? I Said you should call him 

and so that.

Jason Whiting: Not to give you a heart attack here, you put it on a credit card. As a finance guy, sorry. No, I know. 

Brian Searl: Like you’re again, but you, but when you’re early in business, again, just everybody else here, right? You don’t know what you don’t know. And I honestly like, and again, I wasn’t carrying debt for years or anything.

And there was a method behind the mythology. Like I was getting rewards points and stuff like that, that I thought well did make up for a portion of it. But anyway so yeah, you learn what you learn, but either way, like I came out and I’m happy and I don’t have any. Debt. And so it is what it is, right?

But yeah, we all have our own unique ways that we get there and it’s interesting how we inform those decisions. But briefly, let’s talk about risks with Nicholas and then we’ll wrap up the show and so Nicholas, we talked about this before the show a little bit, but Nova Scotia particularly was hard hit this year with some natural disasters, fires, flooding on the one side of the island, right?

And I admittedly have not looked at where your Campground is on a map, on a pin. So I don’t know how you were impacted by that, but I’d love to hear how you were or weren’t and then how you overcome those challenges and [00:47:00] how you see the path forward, because that’s a big part of business is risk and managing that.

Nicholas Denaro: We got really lucky here. We had a very little bit of rain when everybody got hit hired. So we’re up quite high on the ridge here. But Digby County didn’t really get much rain that with those storms. But like Luna Bird County and she, Queens County and Halifax, and they all got it, but we missed it.

But and the fires, we didn’t have any of those fires here. We got some smoke that came from Shelburn Way. But we were very lucky. There’s a lot of parks, few parks that, that lost their parks in Nova Scotia. Yeah we got lucky with that one. 

Brian Searl: So how do you as a business owner look at the obviously it impacted tourism to Nova Scotia, right?

If you read on the, like we’ve had dealt with this with clients where we now press releases after hurricanes. When the media is saying that everything is destroyed and you’re looking at your park and there’s a tree branch down, right? Yeah. You have to get that word out. So how do you deal with that?

From a, obviously you were blessed that you didn’t get touched by the fire of the floods, but how do you deal with [00:48:00] that from a Look? I’m open and I’m here. Message perspective. 

Nicholas Denaro: We put a note out that for, folks that were affected by the fire, if they were evacuated, that we would, open to them and, no, no charge and tried to, give somewhere some folks, some place to go.

We’re a little bit out of the way here but the offer was out there. But we had, cancellations and, it’s, we, last minute and, try not to, anyway, we get a lot of phone calls on that stuff and it it certainly didn’t help our slow season, but there’s worse things in the world to worry about, other problems out there.

Brian Searl: So how do you guys just maybe close it with a minute each year or something like that. Talk about like how you manage risk in your own business. And I know Nicholas, you talked about it already, but Jason and Scott. 

Jason Whiting: Sure. I guess the does a you don’t wanna make your business so fragile that, if there’s a sneeze, you get pneumonia and you’re in the hospital.

I guess don’t over extent not, don’t do anything full tilt. And I’ve, I’m a bit of a sort of all in guy this is a great idea, let’s do it all now, let’s do these [00:49:00] five things at once. And I think I was probably too aggressive when I started in the business trying to do too much at once. You, you don’t wanna have your cash flow zero one year because you’re investing in eight different projects and you don’t want the maximum amount of debt in case your results go down.

Then all of a sudden, my god, I can’t support the debt. Whereas Nick talked about the pain of interest rate rises, right? You, if you were loaded to the hill, I took less debt than I could have. It hurts like crazy, the rising rates, but it hasn’t killed us. Again, so you just, you don’t, I don’t wanna run the park with.

Two employees. ’cause you want a little bit of backup there. If someone quits, you got some room to, to, absorb that. Just make your business anti-fragile. It’s a not my idea, anti-fragile. But anyway, it’s just you just wanna have some redundancies, backups not make it the riskiest possible so you can survive all the unexpected, you could take those punches to go back to where we started and not get knocked out.

So that’s my philosophy on it. 

Scott Hubble: Yeah. Hey I’m not as smart as Jason, but when you start and you’re small.

Brian Searl: Look at all the law books on your desk, man. You gotta be smart. 

Jason Whiting: I have one undergraduate degree [00:50:00] yeah, I think you sell yourself short. 

Scott Hubble: They’re props. Anyhow look, when you’re starting small, You got ideas, you got a vision, you got passion. You wanna do everything, everything’s urgent. And that was me. Everything was always urgent. Sometimes you just run and then you, and you figure it out as you’re running, right?

But as you’re scaling your business up, you can’t keep doing that. You’ve gotta have those right infrastructure pieces in place. And for us, that’s people for me. I have, I’m blessed to work with three women that are so process driven that they create these guardrails. For us not to fail, not to fall out of and ’cause the process has to be right now, that doesn’t mean that we’re not trying to find that balance between urgency and walking wisely and certainly not being risk adverse.

I love risk. I like to just throw my hat in and say, Hey, let’s see if we can do this. But sometimes you just can’t pull it off and you have to listen to your team’s there [00:51:00] to help you. 

Nicholas Denaro: Yeah. I started listening to Courtney this year, last year. I was the same. I was just like, we gotta do this, we gotta do this.

Brian Searl: And ’cause you have to fail to succeed first, right? 

Nicholas Denaro: Yeah. See, and at the end of, yeah, at the end of the year, you were right. Yeah. I shouldn’t have spent all that money to try and do this, and this. But we’re learning it. So this year it’s a little dial back a little bit and do some things we have to do and not do everything I want to do, where we want to do and just.

They have one foot after the other. And sometimes, like you said earlier, we take one back. 

Brian Searl: This is an interesting, yeah, this is an interesting problem for me because I’m full till I’m the all in, like not with the money and spending all that stuff, right? But with the, I want to innovate and move super fast.

This is what we like. I had no idea, zero idea on November 29th of neck of last year that this entire company was gonna pivot and focus on ai. Like I knew that AI was coming because we had been playing with it since 2020. And I knew that moment was there, but I had no idea that was gonna be tomorrow, November 30th.[00:52:00] 

And so since January 1st, right? Like we’ve grown from, I had 12 people to 26 people now, and it’s all driven by ai, which everybody will tell you is gonna replace jobs not for us. Yeah. But right. And so it’s very like, but I’m all in on that. Like I’m not going half in. We’ve built custom chatbots, we’ve built like and everybody looks at me like I’m crazy. And you’ll hear that from a lot. Like you’re crazy to put the Amish cabinets in there, it’s gonna weigh it down too much or whatever they said to you Scott? Sure. Yeah. Lost too much. And so yeah, that stuff definitely resonates with me and I hear that.

But All right, thank you guys for joining us. I appreciate it. I think it was a fairly good episode, right? We turned that into something. Definitely I didn’t contribute, but you guys did. So hopefully you had fun. Appreciate you all being here. Nicholas, do you wanna tell ’em where they can learn more about your Campground?

Nicholas Denaro: Sure. Yeah, we’ve got Facebook, the Ridge Campground Instagram, the Ridge Campground Digby. And I got a little YouTube channel too, the Ridge Campground. But it was great being a guest. Thanks for having me on and it was nice to meet all you [00:53:00] folks. 

Brian Searl: Appreciate you Nicholas Scott, where can they find out about New Camp?

Scott Hubble: Yeah, it’s new camp RV dot com and it’s amp nu. Camp RV dot com and yeah, appreciate the opportunity. Nice. Chatting with you, Nicholas. Jason, Brian, 

Brian Searl: and then Jason. We’re gonna find out about your two parks and anything else you have going on. 

Jason Whiting: Yep,uh so the holding company’s Pento Recreation, but our two parks if you wanna stay with us, are campers corner london.com and rollinghillsottawa.com.

So that’s if you wanna stay with us and Ottawa’s going year round this year. So if you wanna see a Canadian winter in our trailer, give us a call. But yeah, thanks for having the opportunity to come on. It was a, yeah, great time. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. And next week we are off, we are for, I think for the first time in a year and a half, not having a show.

’cause I’m going on vacation. There’s nobody apparently who wants to host it. We’ll see you guys in two weeks on another episode of MC Fireside Chats, thanks for joining us. Take care guys. 

Scott Hubble: Take care. 

Nicholas Denaro: Sure. 

[00:54:00]