MC Fireside Chats – April 23rd, 2025

Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks, Modern Campground, all the things. And super excited to welcome you back to another show. We’re gonna talk about the RV industry today, as we always do on our fourth week of the month. As well as a little bit about outdoor recreation and things like that.

We’ve got a couple recurring guests here with us. Eleonore Hamm from RVDA of Canada. Phil from RVDA of America. Is there like an RVDA of Mexico, Australia? Their global domination plans here guys, should we have?

Phil Ingrassia: Australia has one. 

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah. I dunno about Mexico. 

Brian Searl: It’s really late though for them right now. Anyway, we’ll figure out how to continue expanding, but we’re gonna have some good conversations. I appreciate you guys being here as always. And then we have a special guest today. We had one back out ’cause they were I think sick or something. This is in my notes. But Eva Mitic, did I pronounce that right?

From RV Pros, Inaugural Editorial Advisory Board is gonna talk to us a little bit about some of the work that they’re doing there and some of the exciting things they have going on. And then maybe we’ll have a little bit of fun. I’ll, should we let, Eleonore , should we let fill in on the plan or should I just spring it on him? Because he didn’t show up.

Eleonore Hamm: Spring it on him. He’s really good at. 

Brian Searl: He’s good on his feet.

Eleonore Hamm: Just to keep him on his feet.

Brian Searl: Okay. Cool. All right, so let’s start, let’s just briefly go around the room and introduce themselves. Phil, you wanna start and then Eleonore and then Eva and then maybe Greg too. I forgot Greg was here.

He’s up in the top corner. He like blends in with the wood background.

Greg Emmert: Shrinking away.

Brian Searl: Greg was here, like your shirt kind of blends in with the background. It’s not my fault, man. 

Greg Emmert: Yeah, that’s okay. This is my. 

Brian Searl: You gotta color coordinate. 

Greg Emmert: This is my urban camouflage. I did, I coordinated with the wall behind me. This way if the conversation gets weird, I can just pull it up over my head and you guys be like, what the, wait.

Brian Searl: That’s fair. It’s well, like it’s me. Every conversation gets weird. Okay. Phil, go ahead. Sorry. 

Phil Ingrassia: Sure. Hi everybody. I’m Phil Ingrassia, President of the RV Dealers Association in the US. We represent the US motor home and travel trailer dealers all across the country.

Brian Searl: Thank you for being here, Phil. Eleanor. 

Eleonore Hamm: I am Eleonore Hamm. I’m President of the RV Dealers Association of Canada, and likewise, we represent RV dealers across Canada. 

Brian Searl: Thank you for being here. Greg. 

Greg Emmert: Greg Emerett newly minted founder at Verio. That’s a new brand that I’m launching now that I’m back on my own doing consulting work. Keep your eyes out for more of that coming soon. 

Brian Searl: That’s awesome. Congratulations. Are you in growing the beard longer intentionally? Is that part of the new brand or.

Greg Emmert: That no, this is actually, this is laziness.

Brian Searl: Oh.

Greg Emmert: Which is not part of the new brand. But yeah. So. 

Brian Searl: It’s good you clarify that. It’s I don’t want people have the wrong expectations. Greg, hire Greg, he won’t work that hard for you, but he’ll work a little hard for you. 

Greg Emmert: He’ll work sort of hard. Yeah. No we’re gonna go, this is gonna get all cleaned up soon. 

Brian Searl: Okay. Promise is a Promise, Eva. 

Eva Mitic: Nice to meet everybody. Eva Mitic I am a part of the RV Pro Advisory Committee, and I specialize in renewable resources and sustainability technology. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. We like technology.

Eva Mitic: And of course, I’m the one that didn’t put my title on my name, so sorry about that. 

Brian Searl: Oh, that’s all right. You can do it, you can like, you can click the three dots by your name and you can edit it if you want to.

Eva Mitic: I’ll look at that technology. 

Brian Searl: So I think what I’d like to start with is what we typically do, I actually liked last show where I had time to prep and do some of the things and we had a conversation and we’ll do more of that in the future. I just had a crazy busy week. I didn’t have time to prepare a lot of that stuff.

So I think what I’d like to just start with is ask, our regular guests Phil, Greg, Eleonore , is there anything that came across your desk that you’d like to talk about you think is important to address? And then we can maybe dive into Eva’s story and then we’ll maybe have a little bit of fun on the back end of it if we have time.

Nobody’s gonna talk. You’re all gonna be quiet. 

Greg Emmert: We’re all too polite. Eleonore . Ladies first, please.

Phil Ingrassia: Yes. 

Eleonore Hamm: Okay. It’s April in Canada and our dealers are busy. I think it’d still like to be a little bit busier. Everything’s gearing up towards our election here next Monday. A lot of the work that we’ve been doing in the association has been government advocacy with the counter tariffs and we haven’t really made a lot of progress in the last two weeks.

Everything’s pretty much on hold with the government officials as we wait for the election results on Monday. Following that we’ll be ramping up our efforts again, to try to remove motor homes from the county tariff measures. That’s been really the big thing, obviously.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Eleonore Hamm: Talked about it last time, the tariff, the loom, the threat of tariffs, the uncertainty. There was an announcement on April 9th whereby the second phase of tariffs did not go into place, but there’s still the automotive tariffs. And unfortunately, motor homes are consider under an HS code of which is an automotive code.

So all motor homes right now are getting the 25% tariff imposed on them. So I was working towards the big issue right now for the association. But like I said earlier, it’s a beautiful day here. It was still snowing, I think in the prairies yesterday, but hopefully Spring is here and dealers are seeing activity across in their dealerships. Hopefully that continues. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, it was snowing in Calgary, I think two days ago, but then it it’s always sunny though, right? So it feels different in Calgary when it snows. But it all melted down and didn’t stick so. Good to hear the RV dealers are busy. We got it. I think we just have to get creative with the whole tariff thing and fix it completely once and for all.

Could we make, as the RVs are delivered, could we make them like embassies of the United States and then as they travel, they haven’t technically crossed the border and then not tariff?

Eleonore Hamm: I don’t know, I don’t know what that would, I don’t know. That would, I don’t know. I don’t know what the solution is. The solution is to remove, I don’t wanna, go into that.

Brian Searl: No, we’re not gonna talk about that today. We’re not gonna talk about that today. Yeah. So good to, yeah. Springs around the corner. Good to hear that RV dealers are busy. Phil, you got anything? 

Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, similar to what Eleonore was talking about the season’s heating up. There are concerns here in the US regarding consumer sentiment.

It’s a discretionary purchase buying a camper, whether it’s a motor home or a travel trailer. And when people are a little concerned about the economy, they’re less likely to open their wallet for, discretionary purchase, like a boat, rv, or power sports product. There’s some concern here.

We’d like to see some more certainty with the markets and things like that. And it’s day to day. It’s, they say one thing and then all of a sudden we’re back to, to the negotiating table and the markets do what they do. But I think dealers are focused on the fundamental it’s gonna be summer here pretty quick, and people are gonna need campers. And that’s where we’re, that’s where we’re focused. 

Brian Searl: How do we make RVs not a discretionary purchase? Have you tried to lobby for that? Like it’s just

Phil Ingrassia: Well, for some people, I guess they aren’t a discretionary purchase, but for the vast majority of customers they are, they’re.

Brian Searl: Which is the problem, right? Like when you turn 20, it’s like the military draft. You should just be forced to buy an RV. 

Phil Ingrassia: Absolutely. 

Brian Searl: Get it outta your system. I think that would work well. Okay. Greg, you have anything? 

Greg Emmert: Yeah I hate to go back onto the tariff thing, but. 

Brian Searl: No, come on to man, we’re having like an optimistic 

Greg Emmert: Yeah, I know.

Brian Searl: Conversation, man. 

Greg Emmert: But I’m waiting to see because just listening to some radio today and reading the news and reminding me that on the 20, I think it’s what, the 25th? So two more days the tariffs will kick in on things like, on suppliers and websites like Temu, I dunno if I’m saying that right. And there’s another one.

Brian Searl: Oh, you’re talking about the de minimus exemption or whatever. 

Greg Emmert: Yeah. And that the tariffs are gonna kick in on those purchases and a lot of my clients, they source things for their store or for their recreation because it’s, is, I should say is, was incredibly cheap.

Because you’re skirting around that kind of stuff. I. The tariff is set to kick in on that on the 25th. So there’s a lot of uncertainty there with people that are, right now is the time, right? Everybody’s either opening at least here in the north I’m in northeast Ohio.

Everyone’s either just opened or opening and they wanna stock their stores and they wanna buy things for their activities and lord knows what else, right? You can get a lot of stuff through those sites. Incredibly cheap typ. Typically it’s gonna be different this year potentially, but, to Phil’s point, the uncertainty of it all, the 25th at 12:00 AM we could find out that it’s all lifted for another week or forever or, until they decide to put it back on. Just looking forward, but not looking forward to seeing what happens there. 

Brian Searl: All the things are gonna be fine, Greg. We’ve already determined.

Greg Emmert: I know all the things are gonna be fine.

Brian Searl: I host the show, have already decided it’s gonna be great. 

Greg Emmert: I think your work around making the the RV’s embassies has merit, I think.

Brian Searl: It just takes creative thinking. That’s all I’m saying.

Greg Emmert: It does.

Brian Searl: And also like Eleonore , do you feel like we have a multi-party system in Canada? Have you thought about creating your own RVDA party only, is solely focused on the RV industry?

Greg Emmert: No, that was. 

Eleonore Hamm: No, I.

Eva Mitic: That was very fast.

Eleonore Hamm: And I spent enough time in, knowing what the ins and outs of what happens at government and there’s no way. You couldn’t pay me enough to participate, go down that road.

Brian Searl: You just run for Prime Minister to be like, my only sole platform is.

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah. Hats off. Hats off to everyone who runs and who dedicates their time to government and we obviously need it, but it is yeah, I don’t think it’s for me. Thank you, Brian, for your support.

Brian Searl: I tried, what can I say? I would vote for you though if you ever change your mind. 

Eleonore Hamm: Okay. No.

Brian Searl: Eva, tell us. Let’s dive into your story a little bit. So tell us about, what the people who are watching this, who may not be familiar, and I don’t think there’s many, but who haven’t been familiar with RV Pro, overall. Give us a background on what it is. 

Eva Mitic: Yeah, sure. RV Pro is the top tier industry for the RV sector. Primarily focusing on RV dealers RV manufacturers, and anybody that’s related to the business. In terms of, technology plays, what the market treads are looking like and those types of things.

Brian Searl: So tell me about your work there. What do you do for RV Pro? 

Eva Mitic: So I’m a part of the editorial advisory board and like I mentioned before, one of my many hats has always been, I actually went to school for journalism. So I have a background in editorial writing and those types of things.

And with my work I found a passion for technology and sustainability. I am a part of the board that advises about industry trends for technology and sustainable initiatives. 

Brian Searl: Oh, we might be talking about some technology stuff later, but sh we dont wanna.

Eva Mitic: Let’s go.

Brian Searl: We don’t wanna let Phil know too early. Okay. So talk to me about some of the things you’ve recently covered. What do you think is important for your publication but for you to highlight recently? Good things we can’t talk about tariffs. 

Eva Mitic: Totally. Just to clarify that I’m not actually a part of the publication. I’m a part of the Advisory Committee, so I can’t,

Brian Searl: Well, that just means you have more power.

Eva Mitic: RV Pro. Pardon me? 

Brian Searl: That just means you have more power.

Eva Mitic: I guess so. Just means I can get in more trouble for what I say next. No, I’m kidding. So in terms of trends a lot of the stuff is sustainable. Technology has been gearing more towards making everything more accessible to the average user.

A lot of the technology that we’ve seen in the past, like lead acid batteries and those types of things going the way of the dodo mostly ’cause people can’t lift them anymore has been a big a big component for for the RV industry moving towards a lithium technology and more sustainable less wasteful technology applications for those.

Brian Searl: So lithium is better. We shouldn’t try to like, we don’t get to retrain people how to lift more, right? Like you’re saying the.

Eva Mitic: No, exactly. I mean lifting is always good, especially as you age it bring, it increases your bone density. But that’s another editorial committee that I’m on.

Brian Searl: It probably is. I just, I still remember, like when you say that or anybody talks about like lifting something heavy.

I don’t know if you guys saw it a couple years ago, there was this great commercial with this old guy who was like training you, you saw him lifting kettle balls and like you didn’t know what he was doing for like a minute. And then at the end it’s on YouTube somewhere in the end he’s been training to lift his granddaughter to put the star on top of the Christmas tree at Christmas. And it’s just super cool.

Eva Mitic: I do remember that one.

Brian Searl: Nice. Yeah, so that’s what I always think about when somebody talks about training and lifting stuff and all that kind of jazz. So tell me like I know we talked about your role a little bit, but like editorial advisory, why is it important to have one of these.

Eva Mitic: Everyone has their own opinions in the market. And really it depends on market insights depend on the industry leaders in that market to be able to actively identify trends and be able to really expand on buying behaviors and those types of things for everybody to understand. And I think it’s super important to get a panel together, especially on things like RVs who have so many different systems on them.

They’ve got so many different technologies and they vary so greatly from like the, bumper pull tent campers all the way up to the, million dollar motor coaches. There’s a huge breadth of things in a lot of areas of expertise that could be called upon to shape this image of what the market looks like and what the trends look like going forward. 

Brian Searl: What’s one of the recent things that you’ve set us a picture of a day-to-day recently of you? What’s some of the things you’ve been tossing around as you consider what to advise on? Because I’m imagining like. I’m not even imagining things right. ’cause I was, I’m thinking you always think about when you hear editorial board of the Washington Post or the New York Times editorial board or things like that, right?

And I don’t know deeply how those things work other than they like once a year get in trouble for endorsing people that they maybe shouldn’t or should. Do we do that by the way? If Eleonore changes their mind, will you endorse Eleonore for Prime Minister?

Eva Mitic: I’ll endorse anybody, but it really depends on.

Brian Searl: Anybody? Like you.

Eva Mitic: What their platform looks like. 

Brian Searl: Alright. But something that’s come across your desk recently that you talked back and forth and said we do wanna cover this. We don’t wanna cover this. And this is I’m putting words in your mouth. I’m assuming this is how your day to day goes a little bit. What do we say about it? What do we not say about it? How do we frame it? Where do we get the data? That kind of stuff. 

Eva Mitic: Yeah, that’s that conversation happens constantly. Even in my day-to-day, outside of the editorial advisory committee, trying to position things correctly and trying to figure out exactly what the right words to communicate things are. One of the biggest things that we’ve seen as a trend and something that I’ve been really focusing on lately has been ease of use for everything that you touch. People’s attention spans don’t exist anymore. It’s just, it’s something, there’s no more time for people to give to anything else.

Making things easier to use and the ease of use and the connectivity of items whether it be, cooking systems or anything, any other systems in the RV. And having everything well connected in an intuitive, easy to use way for the user. That is the topic that’s been top of mind for at least the last 12 months.

Especially with the covid boom and the RV industry. People were starting to get maybe the cart a little too far in front of the horse when it came to buying RVs. They purchased something without really understanding a lot of it. And then their industry is starting to play catch up, pardon me.

Playing catch up to educate these consumers that maybe took the plunge a bit too early. And that has impacted a lot of the trends to moving towards these easy to use smart, interconnected systems. Like smart homes, but on wheels that you can pull.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Eva Mitic: With your truck. So that’s been top of mind for a little while for us.

Brian Searl: What do you think are like a couple of the most interesting ways that you’ve seen these things shift or that we might see coming into RVs in the future as a result of what you just talked about?

Eva Mitic: The most interesting way that I’ve seen them shift. I mean, from the sustainability technology kind of side of things. It’s like consumer electronics if you think about how the technology’s been improving. So rapidly over the last couple of years and that continues to increase. One of the things that has been identified as a market gap has been the use of artificial intelligence and in building that within the infrastructure of optimizing the systems on onboard the RVs.

Now, it’s not something that I know of anybody else doing anybody or rather anybody doing right now, but it’s definitely an option. You can see people, RV dealers, RV OEMs scaling faster and quicker, faster and broader using AI tools as a backbone and building that into like RV building and RV customer support and stuff like that has definitely been an interesting step towards a new trend that nobody really saw coming.

Brian Searl: Okay. Interesting. I’m curious, let’s take this, I have a quick question ’cause this came across, as you look at how to advise, what to advise, what to talk about, and even deeper, Eleonore and Phil to like, how, I guess maybe manufacturers is more the question than dealers, but maybe, I’m sure you can speak on this maybe anyway, but how do you decide what to focus on from a consumer standpoint or from a, like you’re talking about an optimization standpoint to make things more efficient.

And the reason I asked that is I had a meeting yesterday, I won’t say with who but we were talking about like product innovation, and one of the things that I brought up to them was like, there’s two basically roles you can take. One is let’s wait until the consumer asks for it, which is what most companies do.

It’s the let’s wait until the awareness reaches enough scale to where you can say oh, like I want, a sliding door that’s automatic if I approach it, I’m just making things up. Or you can take the Steve Jobs approach and say I don’t care what you think you want, this is what you want, and here’s an iPhone, and then they all buy it.

So how do you guys think that the RV industry deals with those kinds of things? Whoever wants to take that? 

Eleonore Hamm: I would say probably in general, we’ve been more the latter or the former in terms of, it’s consumer driven, right?

Brian Searl: Sure.

Eleonore Hamm: The manufacturing process has followed consumer demand. I think that’s generally how it happens. Having said that, I think there are some that, have been showing technologies and there are some features in some of the units that consumers may not even know were necessarily aware initially. And that was industry driven. But I think generally, yeah we’re following what the consumer dictates.

Brian Searl: Which do you think is a better approach? I think they both have equally their merit, right? To be clear, like I’m not trying to trap you into anything. Just I’m just curious what as you look at, and I know I don’t know deeply about the RV industry, like I do some of the other industries that I’m familiar with, like marketing, advertising, AI tech, that kind of stuff.

But as I look at how fast some of these things are speeding up and how consumer attention is shifting and changing, and they’re seeing new things over here and different new things over here, and old things over here that still have a lot of value and are great. Is there a little bit of merit in saying obviously we still need to listen to the consumer and what they want and all the things, but also maybe we look at things that we’re pretty sure they’re gonna want soon, and then that sets us apart from our manufacturer, our rig, or our dealership.

Phil Ingrassia: I think that there’s a, it’s a pendulum, if you will. I think some of the features that are in RVs, for instance, slide out rooms were.

Definitely driven by a demand for a larger unit set up at the campground, but it took the manufacturers and the suppliers working together to put the systems in place that made that happen, right? On the other hand, you’ve got affordability issues now, especially with higher interest rates and things.

So maybe some of those things that people thought they wanted or the manufacturers thought they needed to put in the units are no longer necessarily, core to the purpose of the unit. So they, quote unquote de content some of this stuff out that isn’t, absolutely necessary to enjoy camping, to keep the price down.

So it, it depends somewhat on the price point of the unit, and it also depends on the ultimate. How long are you using it? How long are you gonna be in there? The more long-term units, the more expensive units, the larger motor homes and fifth wheels are gonna have a lot more technology baked into the product than perhaps the family camper that’s used. Just on the weekends. 

Brian Searl: Are there any ways to forecast this out a little bit? And what I mean by that is like nobody really knows where, especially now with how fast the world is changing, but nobody really knows where we’ll be in three to five years as far as technology goes. ‘Cause it’s moving so fast.

But are there ways, generally speaking, to try to look out and say of all the things that are coming that are uncertain, here’s a few things that for example, convenience, everybody always wants convenience. If you can make something more convenient or easy to use, like Eva was talking about and there’s a lot more adoption, are there ways to look out in the RV industry and forecast some or a little bit of that stuff to say i’m pretty confident that even though maybe a lot of consumers aren’t demanding this yet, that regardless of what happens in tech, this is something that is good and that I can scale and that will help me sell more RVs of this type.

Eva Mitic: I think there are some parallels between technologies used in homes and technologies that are adopted in the RV industry that have some of the same pathways to get to you have this convenience at home and yes, you wanna, step out and take this time off and, take your RV out into the middle of nowhere, but you still wanna have creature comfort.

So there, I think there is a parallel, but it’s a little bit more delayed of, you’ve got the smart home technology at home, for example. You wanna be able to tell Alexa to pull in your slides at the end of your trip. So there might be some

Brian Searl: I absolutely wanna do that. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, for sure.

Eva Mitic: Yeah, no worries. Or like empty my Blackwater tank. Nobody wants to kneel in that stuff, right? So it’s like there’s some things that can be looked at in the life that we’re living now that can be maybe adopted in the future. But in terms of the 3, 5, 10 year roadmap, it’s definitely you still have to be able to listen to the people who are purchasing them.

And the de contenting kind of idea as well is a very interesting one that’s come up over the last little bit of, yeah, again, the affordability aspect of it. Quick answer is maybe, I think there’s not really a, there’s not really a direct delineation of okay, this is our roadmap and this is how we’re gonna get there.

But it honestly looks like more of educated guesses and hunches based off of the available technology that’s out there. 

Phil Ingrassia: And some of the r and d right now that you hear about is it was based on an electronic vehicle future, ev future that seems a little cloudier now than it did two years ago.

Brian Searl: Yeah. All the tests. So, I dunno if have noticed.

Phil Ingrassia: Development of these prototype for instance, on the towable side, the prototypes of these kind of self-propelled trailers that were gonna help push, push the EVs down the road to increase range. Those are still in development.

There’s companies that are out there doing that, but is gonna be as quick as everybody thought. It seems like ev adoption, especially on the towable side for tow vehicles has slowed down somewhat. The announcements coming outta the auto manufacturers are that maybe we’re not gonna build as many, Ford Lightnings as we thought we were going to.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Phil Ingrassia: It’s difficult to be on the bleeding edge of some of these technologies ’cause it takes a lot of money, a lot of r and d to do it. And then, that’s a big financial risk, especially for an industry that, is, we’re not as big as some the r and d availability of funds isn’t, may not be there like it is in some of the larger technology industries.

Brian Searl: And that’s a good point, right? If you look at like a company like me that deals with like software and services, it’s a whole lot easier for me to do r and d and experiment with some stuff than it is to go design a rig and map it out and like actually build it and see if it works and deal, right?

That’s a whole lot. So you’re right, it’s a whole different expense. So that brings a question like, let’s use your example of electronic vehicles. Is there a threshold generally that you see in the RV industry where there gets to a point where they say, okay, we have enough data, or we have enough of a sense that maybe electric vehicles are gonna be a thing that now we wanna pivot 5% or 10%, or we wanna do r and d at a basic level to where they say okay, now it’s okay to put some money into this.

Nobody wants to take that. Is it a bad question or 

Phil Ingrassia: It’s not a bad question. It is just.

Brian Searl: Like generally speaking.

Phil Ingrassia: It really depends. It really depends. If it’s a simple thing to tool up for, that’s one thing. If it’s gonna take, millions of dollars to put this potential thing in.

Brian Searl: Right. So that’s what I’m asking. What is that threshold? So obviously you’re not gonna do that on day one or even year one maybe. But is there a threshold for like, EV adoption? Because there, obviously there was a certain point with EVs that you just said, where we got to, at least some of the manufacturers were looking at those options to do the pull behinds or the push behinds.

So there had to be some kind of turning point or, metrics that they looked at that said, okay, this is far enough down the line that we can risk hundreds of thousands or a couple million to research this. Boy, are you just not liking my questions today.

Eleonore Hamm: No, I just don’t have, I don’t have the answer. I don’t know. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, neither do I that’s, it’s all speculation, right? I don’t think I’m looking for an answer. I’m just looking for your, I guess general opinion as experts in the industry is all.

Eva Mitic: I think that’s the kind of difference between the Steve Jobs mentality versus the kind of reactionary to the market methodology that’s been, tried, tested, and true is nobody, maybe not nobody, but there are very few companies that are willing to take the plunge, that have the backing of the investors to be able to look at those futuristic technologies and be able to build the prototypes.

Whether or not those protos are going to actually sell, who knows? But realistically, the the capital available for those types of initiatives is getting smaller and smaller without angel investors at a high level. So while the wish and dream of everybody being able to come up with the, next iPhone is definitely there, or, a battery, the size of my pocket or the battery, the size of my watch, that’ll power the whole RV.

How are you gonna be able to do that when you’re trying to sell a product and you’re trying to keep the lights on? So I think that there’s a happy balance between, the never land pie, sky idea projects that everyone want, would love to do and have, be the next best thing, but still being able to have a viable business at the end of the day.

Brian Searl: Absolutely. Yeah. And I’m not advocating or saying anybody’s doing it wrong. I was just curious. I don’t have that data or I don’t have that expertise. 

Eva Mitic: No. ’cause I would definitely be the person that would be working on those projects if I could. A hundred percent. 

Phil Ingrassia: Yeah. And I think that you’re seeing some incremental movement in, especially like on onboard power systems, right?

10 years ago everybody had to have a generator. Now not everybody does need a generator on board. So that’s a good example of how incrementally, as the technology gets more affordable. And better performing that you move into a different space for onboard power generation on RVs that just didn’t exist.

I think that’s one of the most innovative sectors of the RV industry right now, just the different power systems that are available and all the changes that are come in that space. And we’ll see, where it goes in the next few years as battery technology improves.

Brian Searl: And why is that so important to the consumer? I know, but I just want you to articulate it with the power systems. Like why is that the focus? 

Eva Mitic: Every part of the RV is electrified almost at this point. You’re running your water pump your furnace. The avenue to electrification started a couple years ago when small generators were outlawed, were not outlawed.

And California decided that they were gonna break, it was outlawed. Yeah. That California was gonna say that small generators were not really a viable option for any, power generation anymore. So that kind of shifted things away from using ice engines to generate power to having fully self-sustaining electrical power systems in in RVs.

And Phil’s absolutely right, the backbone of most RV systems these days, especially off-grid travelers, will be the mobile power system. Like I was mentioning before, the shift from lead acid to lithium, for example, you’ve got one lithium battery that can completely displace six, 80 pounds sixfold batteries, which is a crazy investment when the one lithium battery is 75 pounds itself.

So you’re making things more lightweight. You’re making them more accessible. You’re maybe offsetting the cost of replacements every couple of years for better technologies. And you’re also not having people fighting over campsites. That have plugins, which is a huge thing. Like I think three or four of my best friends this year have already told me that there’s no more campsites left on the island that I live on. That’s a big thing.

Brian Searl: What island do you live on? 

Eva Mitic: I’m on Vancouver Island, so I’m in Victoria. But they’re like, yeah, there’s nowhere to go. If you, if we have an rv, there’s nowhere to go that we’re able to plug in. So those power systems I completely agree with Phil, are the, the place where a lot of the incremental adoption has definitely seen a lot of growth and continues to see a lot of growth perspective growth rather.

Brian Searl: And that’s I really wanted to get to the heart of what the consumer benefits are. And you did, you touched on that. So I think the lightweight, which means less fuel and longer range. And then just more ability to go more places.

Phil Ingrassia: Quieter.

Eva Mitic: Here’s the other thing. Air conditioning. You can actually run an air conditioner on mobile power systems now, like that was something that was completely unheard of five years ago. So it’s something like if you have a 300 amp hour lithium battery with 400 watts of solar on the roof, you can run it for 35 minutes before you go to bed.

So if you’re camping in the middle of the summer and you wanna cool the bedroom down, you can do that without having to plug in or run a generator. That’s something that was again, completely unheard of before. Again, the transition to 12 volt fridges of electrifying everything.

Like you have to have that backbone to be able to support all of that too. But yeah, in terms of benefits for people, it’s, yeah the quiet part, Phil absolutely on point there too. Nobody wants to be that guy, turning on their generator at breakfast because they depleted their lights over overnight and, their CPAP machine completely, made everything go dead.

The quiet, the lightweight, the off grid freedom really is the underscoring component for all of that. And that’s that I think that’s the lifestyle that the RV industry is selling and that those three components, underpinning that kind of target is is really coming true.

Brian Searl: Greg, how do you feel about this generally? Not specifically about the RV industry, right? But the same mindset of like, how do you decide when to pay attention to something when you’re consulting? 

Greg Emmert: So usually for me it is the it’s the market tells me that somebody wants it, right? I might try to lean into something with my services and say, this is, here’s what I’ve got.

You need this thing. But really as a consultant it’s very a reactionary thing, right? I have a very specific set of skills and when somebody needs something, then that gets applied, right? But it’s very difficult to go out as a consultant and be like, I have the thing and you need it. And.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Greg Emmert: Steve Jobs, and I don’t look at in black shirts or turtlenecks either. Mock turtlenecks I think was the, I think you need that if you’re gonna sell that thing you have to have that, and then a big stage. And I’m no good in front of people. But I love all the, first of all, I think we could all just like.

Hang back and let Eva, take Eva, take the show. She’s absolutely killing it. And she’s I my brain can’t operate on that level. But I’m just looking at, so I was just, as you guys were talking I’m looking at the Go Power page and Yeah, to your point the freedom, the 1200 watt system with a 900 amp hour battery or 900 amp hours worth of battery that’s seven days off grid.

That’s absurd. Like you, I don’t think you could have, could you have done that 10 years ago? I doubt it. Because you think of lead acid deep cycles that you would need would be insane. And then, so that I think is what’s driving companies like, and I think we talked about this, I can’t remember if it was Outwired or this show like Pebble who I’m so excited about.

I, I love watching their innovation that they’re plugging in. They are like, at least. From what I can tell, they are like the Steve Jobs of innovation for the RV industry right now. But to to the point of how much they’ve invested. When you were talking about r and d so far to date they’ve raised $13.6 million.

So there’s the threshold right there that Phil was talking about. Extremely difficult to try to and expensive

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Greg Emmert: It can be. Yeah. But man, if you haven’t seen a flow it’s pretty incredible. I can’t wait to run it the road. 

Phil Ingrassia: And the price point on that trailer is $135,000. So there we get into that affordability argument.

And who can access that now? You hope that some of that technology, like a lot of things that will come down over time and be more accessible to people who just need to. A unit to go camping on the weekends. Like a lot of things a percentage of the of your discretionary income is limited.

So you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta make those trade offs when you’re talking about whether you’re at the top end or the mid-level or entry level of the industry. So we can’t forget that affordability. And then, you are reaching a whole new segment of consumers who don’t want to hook up. They don’t want to go.

Brian Searl: Yep.

Phil Ingrassia: Have that kind of, campground experience. They want a different type of experience. And so that’s where the technology allows you a lot more of mobility. And I’m not saying that they don’t want it ever, they just may want different types of experiences, different parts, course. 

Brian Searl: Of course.

Greg Emmert: Yeah. Yep. And I think that’s the beauty of something like the pebble, a 45 kilowatt hour battery. And I forget how many how many watts of solar on top. The thing can even be used to power your home briefly in a power outage. It’s got so much saved up power. So there’s, to your point, Phil, boy, I can be free. I can take that thing anywhere and have enough power to run everything inside it for as long as I need to before I head back home. And I was honestly surprised at 130, $140,000 price point because that’s, oh shoot, that’s. Half of a new class B. If you’re looking at something like like an Airstream or a Winnie Revel or something those things are up over 200,000 bucks, as are a lot of class A’s. I thought that was actually pretty inexpensive given the amount of technology that’s baked into it.

And I just, I can’t wait to see I’m, I sound like a Pebble commercial. I’m not. Although I am still putting out there. If Pebble, if you people are watching, I would happily brand one for you and drive it around and show it off. Just call me. I’ve got room in the driveway, so I’m just, I’m throwing that out now.

Eva Mitic: We’ll put an affiliate link in the comments below. 

Greg Emmert: If you need an a brand ambassador, you know where to find me. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: It is interesting though. So let’s pivot for a second. Let’s do a couple fun things. So let’s assume for a second, and obviously this is a big assumption, but this is part of what you don’t know we’re gonna talk about Phil. So let’s just assume the future is what crazy Brian Searl thinks the future’s gonna be, really quick. And that, and I mean by that, like we’ve obviously talked about ai, like we all know how big that is, but I’m more talking about what if we solve nuclear fusion in the next 10 years, which I think is gonna be possible, and then energy becomes super cheap.

What if we have humanoid robots in the next three years that are able to be purchased for less than $30,000 that can both build RVs and work in your home and do all the things right. What if we have, and they’re producing those robots this year, right? They’re starting to, dozens of companies are so like, I don’t think that’s a stretch.

What if we, we talked about on this on Outwired, what if we have flying cars and then eventually, like longer range, I don’t know, flying RVs or something in the next 10, 15 years? How does things like that, like if you had, if it was my future that I’m imagining. Not one that I dictate, but just one that I think has a possibility of coming true in the next 10 to 20 years as technology moves faster.

Does that I feel like that unlocks a lot of new innovation potential in the RV industry because all of a sudden perhaps maybe you could prototype an RV by having a 3D printed, part or piece or even a whole chassis or, and then you could also have the 3D printing operated by the humanoid robot.

And so then, and if energy’s a whole lot cheaper. So I know this is a lot of speculation and I’m not saying discuss the likelihood of it. I’m asking if those things happen. What kind of things can we just put our imagination hats on for a second and say what does that unlock for the industry as far as potential to innovate. Because it in that world, it’s not anywhere close to as expensive to experiment, right?

Eva Mitic: No, that’s true. And that kind of sounds like a fever dream that I had a couple years ago, but it’s definitely something that I think that one of the things that with the Flying RVs and stuff like that would negate, would be like border security.

Like how would you be able to police borders or even like things.

Brian Searl: You just shoot around outta the sky, give them two warnings.

Eva Mitic: Yeah right? Yeah, no, it’s definitely an interesting concept. And I’ve got the Jetsons floating around in my head right now with the Android, serving new tea in the morning by the fireside. And you got your robot dog, which came out what, like the early two thousands. So like, where did that go?

Brian Searl: It’s still here. You can buy it for $25,000. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. 

Eva Mitic: No, that’s what that’s not a, I don’t really have any other imagination at this point. I think I’m still too grounded in reality. But it’s definitely an interesting concept of being able to like, we’re on the cusp of so many different technological advancements that again, just need the finances to be able to really push through and the.

Brian Searl: Right.

Eva Mitic: On both sides. And so it’s definitely an interesting time. 

Brian Searl: Right? And right now that’s not feasible as we’ve already discussed. We completely agree that you can’t do that multimillion dollar innovation. You can’t prototype everything. But I think there’s going to be, if this comes to pass a big if I’ll spec I’ll stipulate that I think that is gonna unlock some of these RV companies who have innovators working for them, who haven’t had a budget to do some of the unique ideas or prototypes.

Some of the unique things. And I think we’re gonna see more of a rapid innovation in some of the things like just even power systems and things like that, right? That now you can say let me try this. Maybe it’ll increase the power load this way. Or maybe what if I rewire it this way? Or what if I do this?

And so then instead of speculating, you can actually prototype this stuff and see if it works. And I think that’s an interesting future.. Are you willing to put your crazy hats on with me, Phil and Eleonore ? Or 

Eleonore Hamm: I I guess from my standpoint, I do, it’s like any innovation, things get faster and I do think there’s gonna be some changes and maybe in 20 years we will see some of those.

Things that you’re talking about from our standpoint or, is, or what I worry about is whether regulations and standards will be able to keep up with some of the innovation or how, 

Brian Searl: I don’t think so. Yeah, 

Eleonore Hamm: How long will it take Transport Canada to approve, flying RV and, does that comply with Canadian motor Vehicle safety standards?

And then all of that, there’s so much infrastructure and regulations in play that that’ll take a long time to change or to adapt and, will the industry, be held back by some of those standards? 

Brian Searl: Let’s assume they’re not right. Let’s assume they’re not. Let’s just, we’re pie in the sky crazy right now.

So let’s just assume ’cause there like this is not like we looked at these flying cars and there’s mult, there’s 10 to 12 companies in the US who have these things built and prototyped and are test flying them. And there’s at least five of them, I think Greg, right? Yeah. That are in some stage of FAA approval that have had FA, a inspectors out there looking at them, testing them, looking at the gauges, making and make changes.

So this is not, obviously flying RVs is much farther off, right? But flying cars specifically is not that far away. So there obviously will be at some point, at least some kind of regulatory framework to, in the US you would assume candidate would follow suit. What is it the FA equivalent in Canada? Eleonore ? I don’t even know. 

Eleonore Hamm: It’d be Transport Canada, okay. 

Brian Searl: Just over. Okay. It isn’t a, okay. Sorry for my ignorance. I’ve only been up here four years. Don’t blame me. I. But that’s just it just interests me on how the behavior’s gonna change. Like Greg and I were talking on Outwired too, about if you look at just flying cars and this, forget about flying RVs for a second, but just flying cars to the, what, 54% of people in New York City who don’t own a vehicle to be able to hop into a taxi at the top of a building and be able to take off.

And maybe it can only go short range an hour or two. Right off the bat. But the ability of you to escape then to the outdoors out of New York City without owning your own car within an hour or two to go to the cats co mountains or something like that. You don’t have to navigate the roads or traffic or anything like that.

That for sure changes the behavior of how people experience the outdoors overall. So how does that impact, and maybe not at all, but how does that impact things like the RV industry? Does it increase awareness of, I got out of the. For the first time I’ve been able to escape the out, to the outdoors.

’cause I didn’t own a car, took this flying taxi, I went out, had a great time camping. Is that an upsell into the RV industry? These are the kind of things that like, I don’t know, I’m mentally ill and I think about these things, but that interests me, right? Like I think the world’s just gonna change much more quickly than 20 years, Eleonore.

But I think that, I think the one thing that will prevent it from changing is, you’re right. Government regulation and willingness of humans to adopt it. 

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah. If I could hop on a, now there’s just gonna be like the traffic jam’s gonna be up in the sky in New York.

Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Eleonore Hamm: But if I can, access, have access to the outdoors in, more readily available to me. That’s great for all of the outdoor 

Yeah. 

Eleonore Hamm: Recreation, right? Because people will, regardless of whether they’re RVing, they’re able to, go camping or go boating or what have you. I think that’s great for all of us. So on that side, yes, I think it’s a beautiful dream. And then we may get there the RVs themselves, I don’t know. I dunno, I don’t know what

Brian Searl: Again, I think the, like in my mind the RV industry is fine long-term. I just don’t think they’re defined as the traditional, like big, huge Class Cs or Bs or whatever, right? Or any of them that you’re used to seeing right now. I think they’re just, they look completely different in 20 years. 

Eleonore Hamm: Oh yeah. 

Brian Searl: But they’re still dealers and they’re still manufacturers and they still make parts and they still make money. And it’s still maybe, or maybe not called the RV industry, but it’s still there.

The people, the companies are still there. The ones who are willing to innovate. I think it just radically changes. I don’t think it ever goes away. 

Greg Emmert: And it very much 

Eva Mitic: I would agree with that too, actually. The interesting interesting kind of concept too is not necessarily. Reframing the, like the term recreational vehicle, but defining it in a more broader sense.

Like it could be something like collapsible yurt that gets, that goes in your back pocket with a bunch of creature comforts in it. Like again, thinking about the Jetsons, like there’s tons of opportunities there. Again, if the if people are crazy enough to really go for them and they have the money to be able to do it.

But I think that if people have the ability to be able to go outdoors, they’re always gonna miss the creature comforts of home. Yeah. So there will always have to be some sort of avenue or vehicle, whatever that may look like to be able to give them a place to rest their head at night that doesn’t involve an air mattress or a place for their their kids to play that doesn’t, that’s not out in the rain or like rolling in the muck kind of thing.

So I think there’s always gonna be a place for some sort of consumer level vehicle, whatever that looks like to be able to bring that Hubble of boat outside.

Brian Searl: You do make a great point though, about they are recreational vehicles and we think about them like the class A, class Bs, class Cs that you buy from dealerships that people go camping in.

But like really, if you wanted to as an industry, like you could drastically expand the definition of what a recreational vehicle is, that would change what you could potentially stock on dealer lots. And obviously that’s all gonna be have to be driven, like Phil said, by logically, by consumer demand, by all those things.

But really there’s a, there’s an almost endless opportunity to what a recreational vehicle could be. Especially if you talk about it can fly or it can go on water or it can do whatever. That would be, that’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. Like how that, like if that comes true in, let’s say obviously it’s gonna take a long time to scale, but let’s say you can potentially, if you’re in a major metropolitan area, be able to hail a flying taxi or schedule one within five years in a major city. ’cause they’re already testing these right in New York City. So then how does that impact, like all the behaviors and all the things that you can do? It’s just, it’s really gonna be interesting to think about that. I think it drives more if the RV industry is willing to innovate and I think there’s a lot of, there’s some people who won’t, but I think most people will be if the data is there and the funding is there or the costs come down to allow the funding.

I think there’s a lot of really smart, amazing, innovative people in the industry. And I think that if they’re willing to not even be ahead but to march even alongside the consumer, the ability of them to scale faster and do those things is there. And then like I think those 54% of people in New York City, for example, like maybe they don’t buy a traditional RV, but maybe they’re willing to buy whatever is out there at the time. That would be really interesting to put that into Chat GPT, Greg. And be like, what would the RV of the future look like if. 

Greg Emmert: I think even just as it stands, so imagine you’re flying taxi or whatever you wanna call it, flying car. You got 54% of the people in New York, right?

As you pointed out, they don’t have a car, but if they can grab a vtal, an E-vtal off a rooftop, and it takes them outside the city.

Brian Searl: Yeah.

Greg Emmert: Maybe it lands them at a lot that is, full of rentable Class B and C RVs. They pick one up there and they head out for the weekend. That could be outdoorsy new model in the future, right?

Maybe it’s not individually owned RVs. Maybe they buy a fleet of ’em, put ’em on a lot. You set up your reservation ahead of time, go to the top of your building, fly out, grab your class B and you’re off to the Catskills.

Brian Searl: Or the landing pad is on top of the RV and you dock with it. And then it recharges through the, if super efficient power supply that Phil said we’re gonna have in 10 years.

And then it just recharges while you like. Autonomously drive to your campground destination. 

Greg Emmert: Absolutely. Yeah.

Brian Searl: I like it.

Greg Emmert: I love it. I’m for I’m ready for it. A hundred percent. I just wanna fly around in a, like a giant drone with just two people. I just think that would be the coolest freaking thing in the world.

Brian Searl: I wanna see and

Greg Emmert: I wanna get it done before the overhead traffic jams that Eleonore was talking about happening. ’cause that’s you, that’s coming too. That’s that’s just gonna be a part of it. I wanna be one of the first ones up there so I can enjoy some peace and quiet before the rest of the people.

Brian Searl: I wanna have the flying RV that I can sleep in, though. I think that would be fascinating. It’s the same thing we talk about with autonomous cars and vehicles, right? Like the opportunity for you and I’ve said this for years to campgrounds, right? Who are the stops along the way, like to somewhere else at some point.

If you have an autonomous vehicle with enough battery life, you’re just gonna be able to go to sleep and wake up in your destination just like an overnight train. So then maybe your car at some point for the next 10, 15 years needs to stop and recharge itself. But after that, the battery technology is gonna keep continuing to improve.

Who knows what we’ll discover next after lithium. So then what happens to those stops along the way where you’ve gotta make yourself relevant in some other way. Give your people a reason to stop there. But you’re still not gonna fix the sleeping. But the same thing in the air. Imagine how far you could go if you just slept for eight hours in the air while your air taxi took you there. And then you could, or imagine the sunrise, you could wake up to where the sunset, you could see over wherever.

Eva Mitic: Head down to the Grand Canyon for a glass of wine. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. 

Greg Emmert: And just fly right back. Absolutely. 

Brian Searl: All right, Phil and Eleonore , can I count on you guys to spearhead this? We’ll check back in with you next month and see how its going.

Eleonore Hamm: Sure. Sounds great. And by then you can put that in chat, GPT and see what kind of drawings and templates you come up with.

Brian Searl: It would be really cool, like especially the new thinking model, just to see what kind of crazy idea it would come up with. It would be really interesting. All right.

Any final thoughts we wanna talk about? Is there anything Eva since you’re a special guest, that you wanted to talk about that maybe I didn’t ask the right question or talk about the right thing or. 

Eva Mitic: No. I think we’ve covered a lot today and I’ve been very thankful. I am very thankful for being invited on the show.

Thank you guys so much for allowing me to be a part of this and thank you Greg for the compliment. I don’t think that my undiagnosed A DHD would have such a good impact on a show like this. 

Brian Searl: Oh, I have ADHD too.

Greg Emmert: It’s apparently we knew, apparently we need more of it. Eva, thank you.

Brian Searl: Yeah. I’m interested. I really like the format that we did. Was it last month that we, that I came up with that whole like question answer, like outlay of the show format or whatever we did? Or was that two months ago? I can’t remember. But I liked how that worked and I’ll try to make sure that we do that more often.

Because I think that helped the show flow more than just, talking about crazy flying cars, which is interesting to be clear. But always I think one of the struggles that I personally have being outside of the RV industry when we get on the show is I’m not sure what to ask you guys that’s different than what I asked for.

And so if I can use some of those conversation starters from AI to help us pick a cool topic that’s recently happened in the RV industry and we talked about the youth council or whatever that came together and just some of that stuff that like, maybe, I don’t know the right question to ask that is a great thing that we need to highlight in the RV industry, I think is gonna help us have really good shows going forward. If you guys were, did you guys like that? 

Greg Emmert: Sure.

Eva Mitic: Sure.

Brian Searl: Okay.

Greg Emmert: Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Searl: It’s way better than me coming up with ideas. As you can see, we just went through that exercise for an hour. Alright, any final thoughts? Phil, Eleonore , Greg, Eva, i’ll just pick on you then, or Eleonore , final thoughts. Now you’re on the clock. Now you have to. 

Eleonore Hamm: Thank you again for having us. I guess by next month’s show we’ll have a new or different government of some sort. And hopefully we’ll have some positive news to report on many different topics, not just tariffs. 

Brian Searl: There should at least be a cabinet level position for RVDA. Just tip your toes in the water, Eleonore , just a little bit, right? 

Eva Mitic: Oh yeah. Special interest group.

Eleonore Hamm: We are part of a part of few groups. There is an outdoor coalition caucus, an outdoor caucus that we sometimes participate in. We do have some groups, but yeah, it won’t be me spearheading an RVDA seat or campaign at the purple level.

Brian Searl: Phil. 

Phil Ingrassia: I think along the lines of what Eleonore was talking about the outdoor recreation industry in the US is trying to make sure that that there’s national parks and national forests stay open with the staffing issues that are in the media right now.

And so far the interior secretary has said that the national parks are gonna keep their hours stay open. And we’re gonna be monitoring that and making sure that happens because people are ready to go outside and enjoy the great outdoors in their RVs or however they camp and we wanna make sure that our public lands are accessible.

Brian Searl: The way to do that, Phil, to you in the United States obviously is I’ve heard Musk is going back to Tesla. Have you thought about replacing him? A lot of power. You can dictate wherever you want. Keep all the National Park people redirect funding, cut all the other staff from everywhere else. ‘Cause national park’s the only thing we need in the RV industry. Of course. No political aspirations for you, Phil. No. Like special government employee. You don’t even need to be elected. 

Phil Ingrassia: We’ve got enough now. 

Brian Searl: That’s true. Alright, Greg, final thoughts? 

Greg Emmert: Yeah, I’m all for Phil becoming a government employee, but I think wouldn’t he immediately become a probationary and then thereby like his life cycle would be about 18 hours because they would just fire him by the night.

Brian Searl: No, because he’s gonna be,

Greg Emmert: I’m all for it.

Brian Searl: He’s gonna be the Musk level. He’s gonna be a special government employee that has Trump’s ear. Like he’ll have an office in the, with the Roosevelt, is it the Roosevelt building that’s next door to the White House, something like that. I’ll be able to do whatever you want, but I’ll have 180 day clock like Musk goes.

So have to get everything done really fast. So just start prepping your notes now, Phil is what we’re saying. 

Greg Emmert: Phil, I’m sorry. I tried to help. I he is, he’s not gonna let up on it.

Brian Searl: I’m letting up on it now. I don’t know, it’s Greg. Sorry.

Greg Emmert: Those are my final thoughts. Leave Phil alone and find me at Greg at Grow with Verio.

Brian Searl: I’m just trying to help the industry, Greg. Okay, Eva, final thoughts?

Eva Mitic: I’m just excited about my flying RV coming out in the next 10 years. So I’m I will back whoever can can make that happen. Really great being on the show with Greg, Eleonore , Phil, and again, Brian. Thank you so much for having me on. 

Brian Searl: Oh, that’s interesting though. You do talk about backing it, right?

There’s other ways to back things other than finances. So like the media coverage and the things that you do at RV Pro, right? Bringing awareness and highlights to everything from power systems to whatever we come up with next to help power the next generation of whatever consumers want. Thank you guys for being here. 

Eva Mitic: Yeah. I’ll see if I can pitch the idea of a round table idea forum for anybody to bring their crazy ideas to the RV industry. No wrong answers. Let’s go. 

Brian Searl: There aren’t, right? Nobody’s gonna be as crazy as me. But like that kind of ingenuity on power systems, on doors, on kitchens, on chassis, on whatever, right?

They’re the brilliant people are out there. Like a lot of ’em you’re hearing already, but there, there are a lot of ’em are out there. You just gotta ask them the right questions and they’ll be like, sure, I’d love to talk about that. And I think that’s the next generation of leaders like we talked about that are coming up.

A ll right. Thank you guys. I appreciate your time as always, and for indulging my crazy weirdness about flying cars and all the things. We’ll find out if this conversation ages well, I guess in 10 years. 

Phil Ingrassia: Alright.

Brian Searl: Although maybe Eleonore are you gonna be around in 10 years, Eleonore ? Are you,

Eleonore Hamm: I don’t know. Remains to be seen. 

Brian Searl: Okay. All right. We’re gonna, we’re gonna count on you. You’ll still be on the show though, right? Even if you 

Eleonore Hamm: Absolutely. Okay, cool. I wouldn’t miss it for the world. 

Brian Searl: I somehow, I don’t believe that’s fully honest, but thank you for the attempt at being cordial and complimentary. Thank you guys.

I appreciate it for another episode. We’ll see you in a month or so and take care. See you.

Phil Ingrassia: Thank you

Eva Mitic: Thank you everyone.

Greg Emmert: Bye-bye.