Outdoor Hospitality News
For owners, operators, team members, and anyone else interested in camping, glamping, or the RV industry.
News for January 18, 2025
This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show featuring conversations with thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and outdoor hospitality experts who share their insights to help your business succeed. Hosted by Brian Searl, the founder and CEO of Insider Perks. Empowered by insights from Modern Campground, the most innovative news source in the industry.
Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC [00:01:00] Fireside Chats. I have no idea if you guys actually saw that intro. It’s the second time it’s happened to me where I can’t see it in the back end. So for those of you listening to the podcast, the entire show is flawless. For those of you watching on video, it’s a little weird to stare at a wood background for 45 seconds and listen to some ghostly voice.
Talk to you for an intro, but we’ll figure that out. I’m moving in the middle of houses. So it is what it is, but excited to be here for a second glamping show. Second week episode focused on glamping for MC Fireside Chats. So we have all our recurring guests here for the week. We’ve got Zach from Clockwork.
Go around and introduce everybody in a second. Todd Winperi is back for us for his second week. Angèle Miller is here. Chris Jube and Alessandro’s on time. Thanks for joining us. I’m just kidding. It was the time zone change. I don’t know why we do that. Anyway.
Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, it was like one off actually, because tonight is back at normal time.
Brian Searl: Yeah, we shouldn’t like even have a time zone, but that’s a whole nother debate for probably a different show that’s not focused on glamping. But and then super excited to welcome Gene Ottoman and Jeremy, who are going to talk to us [00:02:00] as special guests about some of the cool things they do. So why don’t we go around, just start with the recurring guests briefly.
And Zach, you want to start? Tell us a little bit about what you do.
Zach Stoltenberg: I’m Zach Stoltberg. I’m the director of outdoor hospitality for Clockwork. We’re a multidisciplinary architecture firm based in Kansas City. We specialize in helping people build and permit and design great glamping resorts.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks, as always, for being here. Todd?
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, hi. I’m Todd Wynne-Parry. I’m with Horwath HTL. I head up the Outdoor Hospitality Advisory Services for the company here in North America and globally, at the end of the day. Our work ends up being primarily with site owners. We’re running feasibility studies, market studies, design planning for projects and we work with investors and we work with the brands providing strategic assistance on how to grow their brands.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Todd. Appreciate it. Chris.
Chris Jeub: Hey, I’m Chris Jeub. I’m an owner [00:03:00] operator here in Monument, Colorado. It’s a busy time right now. I’m actually at a homeschool co op playing Mr. Mom. My wife is sick at home right now, but I run two properties with 12 units on it. I’m in the middle of review right now with the property.
which is for both the properties and one of the addendum and one of the special use permit and i am also launching a class called easy entry to a glamping business which is available at my website at glampingguy. com so i’ve got a lot going on but never boring moment as a glamping operator here in colorado
Brian Searl: free for everybody who watches the show right chris you did say that
Chris Jeub: yeah actually you know what brian let me give you a coupon code glamping guy just put in glamping guy it’s a coupon code because i really do want People who are interested in glamping want to enter into this wonderful market.
They can get in, otherwise Send me 37 and you can actually watch the course too. All
Brian Searl: right, we’re going to hold you to that, Zach. You got to remember that.
Zach Stoltenberg: I’ve got my own referral [00:04:00] code.
Brian Searl: Angele.
Angele Miller: Hi everyone so my name is Angele Miller and I’m co founder of Creepside R& R Glamping. We are an Atlantic Canada Glamping Resort with the sun coming out now and the snow mounting, which is very nice for us.
And we have five geodesic domes. We have two mirror cabins and we’re opening up a luxury fishing boat accommodation. So we’re very big on the unique accommodation. We have Nordic Spa Yoga Meditation Center. We’re also franchising. Our resort. We’re starting to open some in the United States as well, and hopefully across Canada and internationally.
And I’m happy to be here with everyone today.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Welcome. Thank you for being here as always. Alessandra. Yes, I’m
Alessandro van de Loo: Alessandra van der Lohe. I’m based in the Netherlands but with our company, our family business, we operate in total nine camping resorts in [00:05:00] Italy and in the Netherlands. And we started in 2018.
So we are a relative. Young brands and looking forward to to grow in the next years.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Thank you for being here. Gene Eidelman from co founder of Azure Printed Homes.
Gene Eidelman: Hi everybody. Yeah. I Azure Printed Homes is a 3D printing structures from using recycled plastic. And We started manufacturing and shipping last year, and our clients are glamping resorts.
We’re really looking forward to discuss this today. Awesome,
Brian Searl: yeah. Yeah, I’m definitely glad to hear you here. We’re going to give you a lot more time to talk about your company, to be clear, and then I’ll geek out, probably, with you a little bit on 3D printing and all that. And then last, but certainly not least, Jeremy Budge.
Is it Budge? From Backland.
Jeremy Budge: Yeah. So I’m a owner, founder, CEO of Backland, and we are a luxury eco resort in Northern Arizona, just about an hour [00:06:00] South of the Grand Canyon. And we’ve built our first space so far. We’ve been open about, about a year and a half. So we have 10 custom built custom designed tents that I’ve, that I designed that on our site, as well as a, And we’re on about 160 acres of private land, but we’re surrounded by a national forest, so a big open area.
Big open meadows and ponds and forests on our site and get a lot of amenities and activities that we’re doing as well. Yeah, that’s that’s the nutshell.
Brian Searl: Awesome. I’m excited to dive in more with you, Jeremy, before we get to, and we’ll start with Jeremy just real quick in a second.
Is there anything from our recurring guest perspective that has happened in the last month or so that you feel like we should be talking about from a glamping industry or anything perspective that you guys want to bring up and briefly discuss?
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, I think the last time we had a chat briefly about the Hilton allowing their Hilton Honors guests to book at AutoCamp, which was a big thing for our industry big [00:07:00] recognition.
And since that time, another thing happened, which is a little bit off center, but it’s important, which is the Hilton then bought the graduate brand of hotels, which are located in US college campuses. And the reason that’s significant is because prior to the pandemic, there were a lot of brands that were bought and sold and by the major companies mainly.
But it really, that sort of acquiring of brands went pretty quiet over the last few years. And I think It’s significant because there are a number of brands that are trying to scale in our sector and the evidence of value of brands in hospitality had been a little bit a couple of years old and what people were paying on an earnings basis.
And so the graduate acquisition was really just of the brand and the franchise rights. So it didn’t include any Bricks and Mortar. It didn’t include any management contracts. It was literally just the franchise rights, franchise fee flow, and the ability to grow that brand moving forward. At 250 million [00:08:00] For just a small percentage of rooms revenue.
It’s a lot of money. And and I think it’s it bodes well for brands and brand scaling. So I just wanted to build on from the Hilton Auto Camp acquisition or not acquisition, but relationship to then that acquisition of a I think there’s only 12 or 13 of them. So it’s really important and it’s good for our industry.
Brian Searl: So how do you think that’s going to lead into glamping? Like how do you think that’s going to tie in?
Todd Wynne-Parry: I think that the concept of a a brand putting together five, 10, 15 product outlets. And then getting paid anywhere from 12 to 20 times earnings on just the franchise fees, forget the manager fees, just the franchise fees it bodes well for it means that the brands that are scaling right now that some very much want to get purchased at some point, it, it points in a positive direction that could [00:09:00] take place.
Yeah, I think that’s the big telltale.
Jeremy Budge: How much do you know about the AutoCamp Hilton partnership? Is that just a marketing partnership?
Todd Wynne-Parry: From my understanding, it is just opening up the AutoCamp website. Product line to Hilton honors guest loyalty, guest members to book directly, probably either earn or use their loyalty points as well.
Jeremy Budge: And that Hilton’s taking a commission on sales basically. And that’s the,
Todd Wynne-Parry: If it’s booked through there, I’m sure they’ll take a clip. They’ll clip something on the way through. Of course.
Jeremy Budge: Yeah. I heard is it under canvas also through the small laundry hotels is on the Hyatt platform as well now.
Todd Wynne-Parry: I heard something like that, but I’m not, I’ve not confirmed that.
Brian Searl: It makes sense. It’s Hilton with SLS now, right? It was Hyatt, and now it’s Hilton? No, that’s too different.
Todd Wynne-Parry: With SLS. With
Brian Searl: SLS, [00:10:00] with a small luxury hotel. I
Todd Wynne-Parry: thought. Oh, small luxury hotels. SLH.
Brian Searl: SLH. Sorry. I apologize.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah.
Brian Searl: But they did switch flags, right?
They were with Hyatt and then they’re with Hilton. So that’s what I think the question was. Is Under Canvas was part of them now or not part of them, but affiliated with them? Could be.
Todd Wynne-Parry: I’m not sure. SLS is, or SLH, Small Luxury Hotels and Preferred Hotels. These are opt in group marketing.
Membership things that, that usually work pan brand, so they, there could be, they could be, you could be a small OG hotel of a number of brands, or it could be completely independent. Sometimes there’s both.
Brian Searl: Yeah, I don’t want to spend too much time on it. I was just curious from like it’s still very interesting as we watch the growth of the industry and in North America, specifically with glamping and how it gets closer and closer to the hotels.
So just it’ll be very interesting to see how that continues to evolve. So let’s go to Jeremy. So give us I know you give us a [00:11:00] primary brief intro, but talk to us a little bit about how did you get into the business? Like all the things you could do including put your microphone in the middle of your shot.
Like I just did things like that. How did you end up operating a resort in Arizona?
Jeremy Budge: So I’ve been in the industry now for a while, about nine years before. Before this, I was with Under Canvas. I was in charge of development for Under Canvas and developed five of their locations.
And even before that, I, in my undergrad worked probably about 2008 or so. I was in a, I did a construction management degree and I was in a real estate development course. And at that time, I don’t think there was really any big glamping players but We had to do a final project, and I did a project on a, basically a glamping resort.
I didn’t even know to call it that at that point and everybody was what in the heck are you, what are you thinking about? And but, so that kind of basic idea has been in my head for a while, and then I was able to join up with Under Canvas, and then [00:12:00] recently we’ve been open, like I said, for about a year and a half and, in development for a couple of years before that.
So this latest venture, Backland, is one I’ve done on my own and yeah, it’s just a so culmination of a lot of ideas and dreams and I, and things I thought could be done differently and better in certain ways. So yeah.
Brian Searl: So two part question, and sorry for all the birds who are trying to make a guest appearance apparently on my new house.
I wish that we had one guy on here on the Campground RV show who’s a bird crazy enthusiast, and he was calling out who the birds were chirping on behind Scott Knapp on one of the shows. Anyway so two questions, two part, I think. Number one is, what do you think you’re doing or you want to do differently at your resort that kind of sets you apart from everything else that you’ve seen?
And then two, How do you think your time with UnderCanvas impacted that, or changed what you may have done differently prior to that knowledge that you gained through UnderCanvas?
Jeremy Budge: So one thing, yeah, one thing that’s really different about [00:13:00] our site we have these tents that we’re using, they’re unique tents that I’ve designed they, We’re designed specifically for this site, partly in response to a lot of the regulatory requirements that we had, but also in response to a lot of the problems I’ve seen in the standard glamping model.
Our tents are they’re permanent structures. They’re fully code compliant energy code compliant fully insulated. And so I think, one, one thing that’s tough in a glamping situation, a lot of times is You’re trying to provide a luxury experience but you’re, a lot of times you’re still in just a, a thin walled canvas tent and heating and cooling something that’s not, has, zero insulation values, it’s not the most environmentally friendly thing to do in the first place but it’s also it’s hard to make that really comfortable a lot of times and so finding a way to actually have a fully insulated tent has been, a game changer, I think.
And then also The design of the tent, the tent’s in full tension all the [00:14:00] time, so there’s no loose, flappy things going on it’s a lot of, I’ve slept in a lot of, typical safari tent type of tents, and slept maybe half the time, but, the wind, when the wind blows, everything’s shaking around, and it’s loud and this is a windy site, and sometimes and having everything fully tensioned and our tents can handle 115, are engineered for 115 mile an hour winds and 60 pounds per snow, per square foot snow loads which are the code requirements in this area. So our tents stay up year round and they handle all the weather and all the wind And then, one thing that’s bummer about the standard kind of canvas tent is that at night when you zip it all up, you really can’t see the where you are, you’re the, there’s no glass windows or anything like that.
And so we, we put it a lot of glass into our, in our units, they’re, the whole front of our tent is a 16 foot wide panoramic window sliding door. And then we have, Also, 16 foot wide skylights above the [00:15:00] beds, and so you can lay in bed at night and, watch for shooting stars and but also be comfortable in a campfire.
Brian Searl: I want you to answer the under canvas thing in a second, but Zach, I’m just curious if you have any thoughts on the different architecture things that he’s describing. Also, if loose, flappy things is a term, like mute, and then you can’t hear this like crazy botanical garden that’s going on behind me. The dog is racing back and forth chasing the birds and
Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, Jeremy is actually a client of ours.
We helped him get the permits and the construction drawings for his base camp structure. And so I’ve been to his property, I’ve seen his tents. He’s being very humble about really just the. Accomplishment that represents to have a year round glamping operation in the region and the jurisdiction he’s in.
is unheard of. And I think he will probably, [00:16:00] he I know he’s the first and he will probably be the last to ever accomplish what he’s done. So it, it is pretty incredible. But I think, he highlights something that’s really important that guest experience peace balanced with the business side.
He’s created these custom units that are still a tent and create that really unique guest experience and all these opportunities to, look up in bed and see the stars. But doing it from a business perspective,
Brian Searl: all right, Jeremy. So back to your. Under Canvas question, that second part that I asked you. So of the time that you spent with Under Canvas, obviously you learned a lot, you developed a couple resorts, like you said. Are there things that you took away from that you brought into your own resorts? Or didn’t bring in, perhaps?
Jeremy Budge: Yeah, just general, a lot of those, a lot of the challenges I was mentioning with tense, were challenges that we had at UnderCanvas with, the standard Canvas tense, and so I think solving for some of those issues was a big thing. I think really what I, I learned at [00:17:00] UnderCanvas and tried to.
Even take to a kind of the next level with this with Backland is I think the most important thing that we’re trying to do is create these meaningful and memorable experiences for people in nature that they can share with people they care about most, and you if you ask people what they remember throughout their life, it’s most of your life you forget.
And it’s these peak moments. There’s a book I was reading recently by Chip and Dan Heath, it’s called The Power of Moments, and it’s being able to take something he said the moments that we really remember are ones that there’s some kind of components that he’s defined, but it’s elevating, it’s an elevating experience, and also it’s an experience that brings connection And so taking something that’s, camping, and this is common to a lot of glamping resorts, but taking something that’s, normal camping and making it something that’s really special is a really elevating kind of experience.
And then also you’re giving people, we don’t do Wi Fi in our tents on purpose, and we try to get [00:18:00] people to unplug and just connect with each other and with nature, and and, that was something we also didn’t do it under Canvas, but, we do, you talk to some people who are in this kind of, here in this space, your RV park space, and they say, Wi Fi is like water, it’s it’s something that you can’t live without, and we get an occasional rare comment about, I wish there was Wi Fi in the tents, but most people, they’re playing board games with their families, they’re having they’re actually talking to each other, their kids aren’t on the screens, the whole time, and And it’s really just getting people back to that, creating these wonderful, memorable experiences.
And at Backland we’ve tried to, not just be a place to sleep as well, but also have, some more fun amenities and stuff that create those moments as well. We have telescopes that we bring out at night and do stargazing and, look at planets and Saturn’s rings and.
We have nature trails, we have a spa tent as well that we do massages in, we have fire pit with s’mores, we have bird, we have binoculars that we let people use for bird watching, and we have a nature scavenger hunt and [00:19:00] then we just do a lot of little things like, we even have little picture frame that is in the tent that when they walk in and there’s a little card in it that says, Come by, come stop by the lobby and we’ll we have this, one of those Polaroid cameras, basically, and we’ll take a little family picture with them, and then they get to take that frame home, and they see that on their mantle, and it’s just a reminder of this fun experience, this memorable experience that they’ve had, and so I think it’s just, yeah that’s the kind of the main Takeaways, from being in the industry for a long time is really making sure that you’re creating this elevated and memorable experience for people.
That’s a full experience and not just a place to sleep.
Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure, and that ends up, I think, making all the difference. It’s just some of those unique things that aren’t necessarily huge changes. Let’s go on to Gene real quick. Gene talking about unique experiences. 3D printed homes. Sure. I know you gave us the intro, but for those of us who want to know more like me and who are geeks and for everybody else who wants to know more too, tell us about your your company.
Gene Eidelman: Sure. Thank you, Brian. [00:20:00] Yeah, we are general contractors and started the company five years ago. And the goal was to find ways to build a faster, less expensive and with positive environmental impact. We looked at 3D printing, saw a lot of 3D printing with cement, which is not good for the environment.
So we asked ourselves the question, why not do it with recycled plastic? And so we developed technology to be able to do that. I printed our first prototype two years ago, started manufacturing and shipping last May, and in terms of significant things happening just in the last months, we moved into a state of the art facility Here in Los Angeles, 20, 000 square feet, we can make three units a day.
And secondly, we got approved by the state of Colorado to bring a facility to Denver within the next nine months where we will be manufacturing in a second location. But demand’s been pretty incredible. Our units are, so I’m sitting in one little studio. [00:21:00] And it’s made from equivalent of 100, 000 empty water bottles.
So it’s sustainable, it’s a really example of a circular economy. We save the landfills and oceans from all the plastic that we generate. And when this unit can be easily relocated. This one is actually sitting on wheels so it can be moved. And when it comes to an end of its useful life, 20, 30, 40 years from now, it can be recycled into something.
The units are very well insulated. We are standard insulation of R30, but we have some customers in Canada who are looking for R49 and we can do that. They can sustain up to 150 miles an hour winds. And our first client so it was really intended for backyard studios and ADUs or tiny homes, but the first client, it was a glamping resort.
So we worked with Three Bones and Big Sur, beautiful property on the Pacific Ocean. And when the owner saw [00:22:00] an image of our first unit on Facebook, he jumped on his Harley and drove down to our factory and wanted to make sure the first unit goes in his development. And so he bought a unit that’s 180 square feet.
With all the options, it was about 60, 000 and he rents it for 750 a night, so a real nice return on investment. And it just fits in that development, it’s totally off grid, because the unit is so well insulated with solar panels, it maintains beautiful temperature inside all seasons. Big Sur had first hurricane.
Remember, California has lots of other natural disasters, like wildfires and earthquakes, but no hurricanes. We had our first hurricane winds this January. And it was stood so much better than some of the other structures they have at the resort. So we are really excited to participate in the glamping industry.
We as I mentioned in my introduction, we’re working with the developer to have 25 of our units in January. Joshua [00:23:00] Tree. We have a development in San Diego, we install the three units are getting 20 more or 21 more. All in all have a lot of interest from around the US and globally. Yeah lots of potential.
We, the beauty of our units, we can really customize ’em, but 3D printing allows to do is can customize. So we’re gonna have units with with skylights. We can have units, different colors. You know how different people want to have different experience in the resort, but we are able to be a sole supplier and create different experiences with some of our elements.
And secondly, we’re very fast and expensive. Yeah.
Brian Searl: We’ll talk a little bit about more about that, right? And I’d love to have all my recurring guests here. Please pop in and ask whatever you want so that I can talk less again. But my initial opening question to you is let’s back up a little bit for the people who are watching this show who are maybe.
Not at all, or a little bit familiar with the concept of 3D printing, how it works, how you can take plastic bottles and make a building, the creativity and flexibility you have with it, and it will have in the [00:24:00] future. I think it would be interesting to just talk about how that works on a base level, because that’s exciting to me, but I’m also excited to get to the point where like Zach can generate an AI image thing on his thing and just be like, print.
Gene Eidelman: Literally, It is not that automatic, but it’s highly automated. Not yet, but it might
Brian Searl: be in 20 years.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah. We use a combination of recycled plastic and fiberglass. Fiberglass is what adds rigidity to our products, so we give a minimum 10 year warranty on the product. In terms of designs, if you go to our website, we have four different designs on our website.
It’s www. AzurePrintHomes. com. And literally somebody could order a unit tomorrow and the smaller unit without a bathroom can be done in five days. The unit was bathroom, kitchen, shower, can be done in three to four weeks. We just had an order yesterday from Texas and we’ll deliver the unit on April 30th.
The incredible speed, the ability to [00:25:00] customize. So while we have the four different designs on our website color, interior, exterior, cabinets appliances, you name it. They are highly aligning fixtures. You really can have something that’s very unique to you. And it totally, we make it in the factory, so we totally finish it in the factory.
When it arrives to the site, if it has foundations, we just need to attach it to the foundation, and we can also give customers Our foundation designs or if it’s or if it can be, or it can arrive on wheels and then it just be a tie down like an RV or camping ground environment.
Brian Searl: So I guess what I would love to have you do, if you have the brief knowledge for, is just for the people who have no idea how 3D printing works.
If I didn’t know how 3D printing works. I would imagine you like chucking plastic bottles into a thing and like it oozing, I don’t know, right? Like for somebody who has no clue or no concept of how this works, I think it’s important for them to get a base understanding of the power and possibilities of [00:26:00] this technology.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah very good question. I I’ve been We’ve emerged in this for the last five years. That’s
Brian Searl: the same thing with me. That’s why I’m pushing you, right? Like I know all about it, right? But sometimes we forget that this doesn’t come across somebody’s desk and they don’t realize like there’s already a sub that’s been printed with 3D printing and it’s already pretty advanced.
Gene Eidelman: In terms of material, so don’t go directly to, we don’t recover plastic bottles, but we work with four different suppliers. We give them the formulation of what we need, and they provide to us pellets. It comes in small pellets like this that has all the ingredients.
It has a recycled plastic, fiberglass, UV stabilizer, all of the material in these pellets. The pellets go in a big bin, and they’re attached to a to an instrument that’s called an extruder. Extruder is a piece of equipment that basically takes these pellets and melts them. And we use architectural software to design the [00:27:00] unit itself so that basically the extruder is attached to a large robotic arm, like a large industrial robot.
You probably see pictures of them, videos of them on a lot of plants. And the robotic arm moves the extruder around and it melts layer by layer. So we print layer by layer. It takes under 24 hours to build the module, to build the exterior of the building. We print the roof, two side walls, and the floor so that happens in one day.
And then we create, we leave channels, we leave areas inside the structure to put electric, plumbing, water. And depending on the size of the unit and what kind of features it has, Then in our factory, we finish it with a bathroom, kitchen, shower a living area and that’s done in kind of more of a traditional way, the way you think of homes are finished.
But what takes most of the time and most of [00:28:00] the expense is build the structure. And so we use a totally automated process for that. So there is no lumber, there is no roofing, there is no metal, there is no waterproofing. The unit is totally watertight because it’s down printed in one go. So it’s a, it’s really the future of construction.
We have a affordability crisis in the world because it’s so expensive to build. And technology really has not moved very much. And then if you, again, compare construction industry to auto industry. A hundred years ago, we, people used to ride the horse. And now, of course, we have electric vehicles.
With construction, 100 years ago, there was a carpenter with a hammer and a nail, and it’s still done the same way. That’s why it takes so, it’s so expensive and takes so long. The 3D printing technology in construction is really way overdue, and I really believe that it’s the future. And really, Glamping Industries is a perfect customer for [00:29:00] us.
Because we can show off our off grid capabilities, ability to do something fast. And I love working with entrepreneurs in glamping industry. People who have an idea and want to try to implement it. But also work with consultants and architects. Many times people come to us, just seeing some of our images on the website, but really don’t know how to go about implementing it.
Getting all the permits and our facilities are fully licensed and then we met the, being as a contractor to get into this business, first thing we’re worried about, how are people going to get permits so we can help folks, so it’s mainly through referral industry to refer them to either architects who work in space or consultants who can help them with I’m an expert on the industry, but I really can envision.
I’ve built thousands of units in my development career and can help people envision and bring to reality something that [00:30:00] will be beautiful looking, sustainable, and sustainable.
Brian Searl: And that’s one of the things that interests me, right? I agree with you. I think it’s the future of construction for sure. But I’m interested in all the people we have here, right? Angel, Alessandro, Chris, Zach. I know I spoke for Zach, right? But come on, Zach, that would be cool, right?
I’ve got a question. Yeah, go ahead.
Zach Stoltenberg: One thing that I think is What is very unique about both of our guests today is that they have a unique one off design unit, something that had never been done before, something that’s new to the industry. I’m glad that Gene mentioned how the glamping industry is really helping launch.
A lot of products that may end up finding their way into, other non hospitality related industries, as we see the modular bathroom pods and kitchen pods and, that’s funding a lot of the development for affordable housing having some of these units that, like Gene said, [00:31:00] we can produce one of these in 5 days, right?
We can cut the time. I the glamping industry is a stepping stone, I think, to much larger markets much deeper pockets. But it’s cool that, our industry is starting to fuel some of that. And so while listening to, everything that was shared, the question that I had, anytime you do something new, anytime you do something different or, you’re on the cutting edge, you’re going to bleed a little bit, right?
So I want to hear from both Jeremy and Gene, as you were going through this process of designing something that’s a, a first of its kind Jeremy with your tents and Gene with your 3D printed units. Talk about some of the challenges with building code, with permits, with, a process that, like Gene said, really has remained largely unchanged, for over 100 years.
And sometimes the rigidity of [00:32:00] regulations. And codes don’t always allow for new creative ideas. So maybe talk a little bit about maybe something you had to overcome or some problem that you solved in designing your units to, to try to, meet a somewhat antiquated,
Gene Eidelman: I’ll be more than happy to address this so there is such a push for more affordable housing that manufactured housing industry, I think, has been one of the leaders. And so we worked with ICC, International Construction Coal Organization. While it’s international in the name, it’s really primarily in the U.
They basically created a criteria that they vetted with building officials around the country. of what our product should have. So that was a huge kind of push before we could make a first product, but now we’re working together with ICC to develop criteria of what what are the qualities of this product from rigidity, from all of the and we looked at four Seismic, high winds, snow loads, what do we need to maintain in order for this to be scalable around the U. S.? Globally, our organization So have you done
Go ahead.
Zach Stoltenberg: Gene, have you done laboratory testing on your units? Have you sent that to a university or lab test and no,
Gene Eidelman: ICC has their own laboratories, right? Yeah. No we’ve done both computer simulated designs before we printed the first unit.
And then once we went [00:34:00] to print, there is a very, there is a way to, to do during 2000 hours to do a 20 year. Testing regime. So you can put your materials through 2, 000 hours of lab testing, and it’ll give you an idea of how it’ll, how the material will will perform in 20 years and then internationally, UL has a similar, a little bit different process, but UL has labs here in the U.
S., in Canada, in England. And that’s going to be our next stage. We will go through similar testing with UL. They look at some different criteria, but they also, they now have a standard for 3D printing. It was not, yeah, lots of people wonder whether we just had the idea and now have to prove ourselves.
There is now some criteria that’s been established for how for new material to be tested. And And we’re on the way. Yeah, I think what helped us a lot was the fact that we’re construction, that we’re, our background is in construction. So we thought of how does someone [00:35:00] permit this before we even started designing our first unit.
Zach Stoltenberg: Jeremy,
Jeremy Budge: same question. I guess before I answer that, I’ve got a follow up question for Gene there, but we did a, we did our restaurant kitchen was a modular unit. And. Getting that permitted was no walk in the park either. And one of the things that for Arizona, I know, is that it had to be built in a facility that was licensed as a modular manufacturer in Arizona.
It didn’t have to be built in Arizona, but it had to be licensed in Arizona. Are you, do you see that with every state, or is that? Arizona specific thing or?
Gene Eidelman: No, so there are 20 states. Arizona, unfortunately, is not one of them that have a process that allows for third party approval of plans and third party inspection in the West.
It’s only California, but as you spread this 20 states spread around the Sunbelt, so Texas, [00:36:00] Florida, Carolinas, Georgia, California. And then there are a number of states in the Midwest where kind of manufactured housing started, so Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan allows us, and even in the Northeast, like Massachusetts.
So there are 20 states that follow a similar regime. They allow third party inspection agency to approve the plans and then third party approval agency to come to our factory and approve the unit. So we just shipped the unit to Palm Springs. It left with a permit. So the only thing that local authorities will need to do, local inspection agency will still need to approve the permit.
Foundation Utilities, but the structure itself is fully permanent. In a state like Arizona, there is a process where we’re in that process now. So we’ve applied with Arizona to get approval and once we are approved, we will have the ability to do the same thing. So a number of other states are moving. I mentioned that we were very excited to be selected by Colorado to establish a facility there.
The state is providing us [00:37:00] almost 4 million of low interest funding. For And one of the agencies that was around the table during the approval process was the agency that said we’re interested in moving in the same direction to accelerate permitting to allow third party inspectors and approval agencies.
Utah just passed the law just last week that makes it simpler to do manufactured housing. Yeah Jeremy, good question and Arizona needs, was the growth it has. Probably needs to change the regulation a little bit and it’s not like they’re not gonna be the first one. There are 20 other states.
And if anybody on this podcast would like me to email you the states that have different reg regulatory approvals, I’ll be more than happy to do. Great.
Brian Searl: I think it’s back to you, Jeremy. Zach’s question.
Jeremy Budge: Yeah. So the question is building something unique. How do we navigate the permitting challenges for that?
Yeah, that is something that’s very different than just going and building a standard product. And having built [00:38:00] built resorts all over the country, with Under Campus before this as well. The trickiest thing is that no, there’s no one answer that fits For every jurisdiction, the hurdles you have to jump through in one place are different than the hurdles you have to jump through in another place.
And those hurdles seem to be getting more and more difficult. When I first started going into counties and jurisdictions to, for Under Canvas and telling them, we want to build this thing called a Glamping Resort. And they’re like, what is that? And you’d have to explain the whole thing to them.
And now You walk in and they’re like, okay you’re the 10th person today that’s asking me that same question. And so they’re definitely writing a lot more rules and regulations and some of that’s positive and some of it makes it harder for, depending on where you are.
But, so yeah for this particular site, we had a lot of unique And I could probably talk for two hours about all the little things. I’m not sure that would be but yeah, I [00:39:00] think maybe hit some of the highlights.
I
Zach Stoltenberg: know, your wind load is exceptionally high that had an influence on.
The design of your units. The need for a very high R value, you’re in a high desert in Arizona, so summers are really hot when it’s really cold.
Jeremy Budge: Yep. Yeah. And I, and then it’s everything from, how you make that, that that wall system fit the code. A lot of glamping resorts are not getting, permanent.
They’re not being permitted as permanent structures like we are, and so they don’t have to deal with this these kind of questions, for us, we had to meet the R values that any permanent building would have to meet in a tent, and that’s a really tricky thing to figure out how to do.
We were able to do it with a mixture of, we have an outer layer of our, waterproof PVC membrane that’s on the outside. But then, from there, it goes through spray foam. or a Tyvek in a spray foam and then a, a fire, spray foam has to be fireproofed and so there’s a fireproofing coating [00:40:00] and then there’s Even the canvas that we use on the inside we had to send out for testing to make sure it was ASTM E84 Class A fabric for, flame spread and smoke development, all of that, and so it’s these little things that, if you think I’m just going to go throw up a tent and it’s going to be easy, it’s not, it’s there’s a lot of things you got to figure out and that’s just, one of, One of the things, planning and zoning and fitting into people, the development plan for communities is also something that is a really important thing to consider.
I think probably half of the projects that I’ve looked at that we put under contract, probably end up. Falling falling out of, we probably end up pulling the plug on because of, just issues like that. And so yeah, it’s a, it’s different everywhere you go.
And if I chime in on this,
Gene Eidelman: I just want to be able to jump in. Yeah I agree that doing one off would be very [00:41:00] difficult. So I think that for folks who want to get some scale. Working with manufactured housing providers probably the way to do.
Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, to follow up on that, too. And it plays to just what Gene said.
Can you guys talk about some of the costs for that? Jeremy, you mentioned sending in fabric to get it tested. I’m guessing there’s an expense with having that done. The ICC testing and things, there’s an expense with that. And when you’re building one or two or even 10 units, it’s difficult to justify some of those expenses.
When you’re scaling and you’re working with a affordable housing developer that wants to put 2, 000 units out over the next year, then it’s easier to justify a 50, 000, test or something in order to prove that. What you’re, what you’ve built to save.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah. No, testing was a quarter million dollars.
So yeah, you couldn’t do it if you were just saying, we’re going to advertise it over a small [00:42:00] development. We raised the 5 million in the last last year and just launch our new campaign to raise another 5 million. to basically to be able to bring it to scale, do additional testing. And in terms of the cost, it’s very reasonable.
Again we are generally around 200 per square foot. And that’s like getting a totally completed unit, 200 to 220. We find that in the glamping industry, we’re very competitive. And this is producing out of our California factory as time goes on, we will, our plan is within the next two years to have a factory in every time zone in the U.
So there is global interest. There is a global need. And and it [00:43:00] just, working with glamping developers is I feel like every client we get has a Their own entrepreneurial story. I just love this. I’m myself from Ukraine. And I’ve been around the world. So I love hearing the stories and coming out with something that will work uniquely for a particular development.
Brian Searl: Okay, so we only have 10 minutes left, but
Gene Eidelman: I want to no,
Brian Searl: it’s okay. I just want to make sure everybody has a chance here. So I know, I think Chris wanted to ask a question. And then I want to, I would love to get, just after Chris talks, I’d love to get Angèle’s thoughts on, from a franchise perspective, do things like 3D printing and this technology and unique designs.
Make sense for you as you continue to expand your operations. Todd, I’m very curious from a hotel perspective, does this help us differentiate the industry more? Is this something that gets hotels more into glamping? And then Alessandro, just from a European perspective, is this something you could see using at your properties?
Go ahead, Chris.
Chris Jeub: Yeah, I was just going to say, I was just going to comment, this is a very kind of [00:44:00] a fascinating discussion. It doesn’t surprise me that glamping is housing some of your structures, Gene, because we’re in just a creative field. And with creativity, that creativity just upsets everybody in zoning and building, building departments.
Zach, we have a good laugh because our regional building department was telling us to put sprinklers in our tents for a while. So we sat down with the guys and pulled the three ring binders out and the ICC regulations and tried to figure it out. Crack the code, you might say. So glamping operators are tasked with cracking the code and creating these creative structures and setting them in place so that people can enjoy it.
So that was just my comment I find this a fascinating discussion that, on that on that realm.
Brian Searl: Yeah, it’s way more complicated than getting my camera to work and not be blinding right behind me, wants to go first? Todd, Angèle, alessandro?
Angele Miller: I can go. So for me I think what you’re doing [00:45:00] Jean it’s fantastic.
And I think the glamping industry, for me, especially with the franchise model, is we want to create consistency and really also elevate the local culture and design. I think what would also be, like, very interesting with what you’re doing. With the 3D modeling is as in the glamping industry, everybody has different types of One, in terms of, either being on a slope or not on a slope or flat or by a river or by a mountain, and for us in franchising also is to find those structures that are going to be able to fit and accommodate all these different climates and regions in the types of consistency.
So with the tree design, do you find my question to you is that it would help. Establish the ability to do that and be very consistent because you can custom a little bit more than perhaps other [00:46:00] manufacturers in glamping.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah, no good questions. We really can, by definition, we can customize the designs in terms of the how different units for, how units are designed for different climates it’s very tough to do one off, but if somebody wants to develop a unique design for 20, 30 units, now that, that becomes much easier.
But even in the situation where somebody only wants to order a few units, we offer enough options. On our website where somebody can really develop something that looks very unique or wants to order a number of the units and they can have different looks and feels about them so that people have a little bit of a different experience staying in the same resort different times of the year.
Angele Miller: Yeah, thank you. That’s really good. And one last comment I want to mention too is I know for us, like here being in Atlantic Canada, we’re dealing with a lot of [00:47:00] condensation. Which can be challenging in the glamping segment, and also like being that it’s very cold in the winter to have a glamping unit that’s properly well insulated, because a lot of glamping unit, yeah, they come with insulation, but it doesn’t make it for us and mine as well.
40 or 50 degrees here so that’s been a challenge for all the glamping resorts. There’s probably over 50 glamping resorts, even just in New Brunswick alone here in Atlantic Canada. It’s an industry that’s just completely exploded and strived, but the challenge had been with most people is number one, the condensation is extremely high.
So having the big skylight and things like that in our segment is very challenging because it will drip water. Continuously being with the condensation but also to have the proper insulation. Like for us, for example, we had to spray foam the units in order to be able to control the humidity levels and the condensation levels into our units.
So is that [00:48:00] something that you guys are taking a lead with also in your type of products that you’re manufacturing.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah. No, our units are designed to withstand cold weather and with the newest condensation. So yeah, we might, again, look at this unique condition and doing a skylight in an area like this might not be a great idea, but but we are, our team is full of structural and mechanical engineers.
And and in terms of, so you understand how we can alter the the insulation, we print an outside bead, which is outside the wall, and then on the inside bead. So we leave space for insulation. So for a standard R30, it’s a six inch space that would fill with insulation. For your area, R49 might be required.
So now we need to leave three more inches. So really, as we print units. Again even in Colorado, Colorado has four unique climates, and so it will make sense to open the [00:49:00] factory there because now we can have climates that maybe have A frame roofs, so for easier for the snow loads and higher insulation, so yeah, we can definitely, and we’d love to go.
We’d love to work with you, the fact that you’re franchising this I assume around the world we’re the kind of perfect partner to take this to unique climates. But our units will do very well in both very cold climates and very hot climates
Angele Miller: as well. I look forward to seeing your product.
And also, Jeremy, I look forward to visiting your resort by the Grand Canyon, by the way. It looks like it’s going to be amazing there.
Brian Searl: Yeah, shoot me a message. We can work that out. Todd, your thoughts on hotel? And I know we only have a couple minutes left, so please talk however long you want. But just if anybody needs to jump off and has a hard stop, thank you for being here.
And feel free to drop off whenever you want.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, thanks. Thanks Brian. Just real quickly Gene, I know Gene and we’ve talked about some opportunities for growth. I think from the hotel perspective, hotels are [00:50:00] always about scale and size. And so there’s already been modular construction in the past, whether it’s by panels, where actually units put them together.
I think there’s definitely an application in the bigger hotel world, but it’s just, I think it’s going to be like 100 plus unit and might be a modular format or something like that. But, yeah. Actually I had a question for Jeremy and that was with your experience with UnderCanvas and brand expansion.
Are you looking to take Backlands to other destinations?
Jeremy Budge: Yeah, definitely. I think, we’re pretty early in our growth stage right now with trying to nail the first experience. But, yeah, fairly soon we’d like to be, start looking at other locations.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Great. When that comes up, I’d love to talk to you about your growth strategy.
I’d be interested to hear how you look at doing that.
Brian Searl: Yeah, that’d be great. All right. Alessandro.
Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, thanks. I actually I have two points. I think Gene what I, what we see here in Europe is that we have some manufacturers who are actually building this I call it prefab. We call it mobile homes, but it’s like at the end [00:51:00] cabins that are built out of Yeah, plastic materials.
And I think difference is they’re not printed, but they’re like assembled. And I really think your technology can be like the evolution of this kind of product. And we really see that this product is installed, especially in the operations that are placing like 50 to 200, like same type of units to create one resort.
And I think that’s very interesting. But personally, I’m, I really believe that the future of the small scale locations is more to have like the one of the specific pieces. And then if I understand it correctly, maybe the scale is not really interesting to build to 3d print a lot of them.
So yeah, definitely. I think for the European market. On this bigger operations where scale is really interesting. It could be a very interesting technology for the future.
Gene Eidelman: And Alessandro, we’re using Italian robots and Dutch extruders. . I actually
Alessandro van de Loo: You’re perfectly made for me, actually.
Exactly.[00:52:00]
Brian Searl: All right. Nice. Does anybody have any final thoughts? I know we had a big, long discussion. I feel like we need a two hour show, maybe, but I don’t know if anyone here wants to commit to that long but super great discussions. I hate to come off every week, but does anybody have any final thoughts?
No, you’re all going to be shy now.
Zach Stoltenberg: You may want to give a shout out to our sponsor. We always seem to forget that to the very end of the show.
Brian Searl: I know somebody’s got to be in charge of that. Do we have, I don’t even know who the sponsor is of this show. It’s Horizon Outdoor Hospitality. I do know that. But super excited.
Yeah. I’m grateful always for Horizon Outdoor Hospitality for sponsoring the show. And everybody sticks into the end anyways, Zach, like they all listen to this amazing discussion that you guys have. They tolerate me. And so at the end of the show is the time to mention our sponsor. Without Dr. Hospitality, who’s just, they provide RV park campground management services.
I’m sure they have some people with glamping resorts underneath there, belts to just a really great company. Scott’s losing his team. So if you’re looking for anything for RV park [00:53:00] management services, or even on the accounting side. They’ve got experts in all those different areas. I’m just grateful to have them as a sponsor for the show.
But yeah, I really appreciate everybody being here. It was great to meet you, Gene. Excited to see where Azure Apprentice Homes goes from here. Jeremy, your resort as well. And then especially if you expand, we’d love to have you back on the show to talk about that. Chris, Angel, Todd, Zach, Alessandro as always.
I feel like we never get to talk as much as we should get to talk since you guys are recurring guests, but I still feel like we have good conversations. I don’t know if that balances it out, but I hope so. So thank you guys all for being here. Take care. And we’ll see you next week for another episode of Mc Fireside Chats.
Take care, guys. See you. Thank you, care.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Bye.
Thank you. Joining us for this episode of Mc Fireside Chats with your host, Brian Searl. Have a suggestion for a show idea. Want your campground or company new future episode? Email us at [email protected]. Get your daily dose of news from modern campground.com and be sure to join us next week for more insights.
Welcome to the fascinating world of outdoor [00:54:00] hospitality.
This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show featuring conversations with thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and outdoor hospitality experts who share their insights to help your business succeed. Hosted by Brian Searl, the founder and CEO of Insider Perks. Empowered by insights from Modern Campground, the most innovative news source in the industry.
Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC [00:01:00] Fireside Chats. I have no idea if you guys actually saw that intro. It’s the second time it’s happened to me where I can’t see it in the back end. So for those of you listening to the podcast, the entire show is flawless. For those of you watching on video, it’s a little weird to stare at a wood background for 45 seconds and listen to some ghostly voice.
Talk to you for an intro, but we’ll figure that out. I’m moving in the middle of houses. So it is what it is, but excited to be here for a second glamping show. Second week episode focused on glamping for MC Fireside Chats. So we have all our recurring guests here for the week. We’ve got Zach from Clockwork.
Go around and introduce everybody in a second. Todd Winperi is back for us for his second week. Angèle Miller is here. Chris Jube and Alessandro’s on time. Thanks for joining us. I’m just kidding. It was the time zone change. I don’t know why we do that. Anyway.
Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, it was like one off actually, because tonight is back at normal time.
Brian Searl: Yeah, we shouldn’t like even have a time zone, but that’s a whole nother debate for probably a different show that’s not focused on glamping. But and then super excited to welcome Gene Ottoman and Jeremy, who are going to talk to us [00:02:00] as special guests about some of the cool things they do. So why don’t we go around, just start with the recurring guests briefly.
And Zach, you want to start? Tell us a little bit about what you do.
Zach Stoltenberg: I’m Zach Stoltberg. I’m the director of outdoor hospitality for Clockwork. We’re a multidisciplinary architecture firm based in Kansas City. We specialize in helping people build and permit and design great glamping resorts.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks, as always, for being here. Todd?
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, hi. I’m Todd Wynne-Parry. I’m with Horwath HTL. I head up the Outdoor Hospitality Advisory Services for the company here in North America and globally, at the end of the day. Our work ends up being primarily with site owners. We’re running feasibility studies, market studies, design planning for projects and we work with investors and we work with the brands providing strategic assistance on how to grow their brands.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Todd. Appreciate it. Chris.
Chris Jeub: Hey, I’m Chris Jeub. I’m an owner [00:03:00] operator here in Monument, Colorado. It’s a busy time right now. I’m actually at a homeschool co op playing Mr. Mom. My wife is sick at home right now, but I run two properties with 12 units on it. I’m in the middle of review right now with the property.
which is for both the properties and one of the addendum and one of the special use permit and i am also launching a class called easy entry to a glamping business which is available at my website at glampingguy. com so i’ve got a lot going on but never boring moment as a glamping operator here in colorado
Brian Searl: free for everybody who watches the show right chris you did say that
Chris Jeub: yeah actually you know what brian let me give you a coupon code glamping guy just put in glamping guy it’s a coupon code because i really do want People who are interested in glamping want to enter into this wonderful market.
They can get in, otherwise Send me 37 and you can actually watch the course too. All
Brian Searl: right, we’re going to hold you to that, Zach. You got to remember that.
Zach Stoltenberg: I’ve got my own referral [00:04:00] code.
Brian Searl: Angele.
Angele Miller: Hi everyone so my name is Angele Miller and I’m co founder of Creepside R& R Glamping. We are an Atlantic Canada Glamping Resort with the sun coming out now and the snow mounting, which is very nice for us.
And we have five geodesic domes. We have two mirror cabins and we’re opening up a luxury fishing boat accommodation. So we’re very big on the unique accommodation. We have Nordic Spa Yoga Meditation Center. We’re also franchising. Our resort. We’re starting to open some in the United States as well, and hopefully across Canada and internationally.
And I’m happy to be here with everyone today.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Welcome. Thank you for being here as always. Alessandra. Yes, I’m
Alessandro van de Loo: Alessandra van der Lohe. I’m based in the Netherlands but with our company, our family business, we operate in total nine camping resorts in [00:05:00] Italy and in the Netherlands. And we started in 2018.
So we are a relative. Young brands and looking forward to to grow in the next years.
Brian Searl: Awesome. Thank you for being here. Gene Eidelman from co founder of Azure Printed Homes.
Gene Eidelman: Hi everybody. Yeah. I Azure Printed Homes is a 3D printing structures from using recycled plastic. And We started manufacturing and shipping last year, and our clients are glamping resorts.
We’re really looking forward to discuss this today. Awesome,
Brian Searl: yeah. Yeah, I’m definitely glad to hear you here. We’re going to give you a lot more time to talk about your company, to be clear, and then I’ll geek out, probably, with you a little bit on 3D printing and all that. And then last, but certainly not least, Jeremy Budge.
Is it Budge? From Backland.
Jeremy Budge: Yeah. So I’m a owner, founder, CEO of Backland, and we are a luxury eco resort in Northern Arizona, just about an hour [00:06:00] South of the Grand Canyon. And we’ve built our first space so far. We’ve been open about, about a year and a half. So we have 10 custom built custom designed tents that I’ve, that I designed that on our site, as well as a, And we’re on about 160 acres of private land, but we’re surrounded by a national forest, so a big open area.
Big open meadows and ponds and forests on our site and get a lot of amenities and activities that we’re doing as well. Yeah, that’s that’s the nutshell.
Brian Searl: Awesome. I’m excited to dive in more with you, Jeremy, before we get to, and we’ll start with Jeremy just real quick in a second.
Is there anything from our recurring guest perspective that has happened in the last month or so that you feel like we should be talking about from a glamping industry or anything perspective that you guys want to bring up and briefly discuss?
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, I think the last time we had a chat briefly about the Hilton allowing their Hilton Honors guests to book at AutoCamp, which was a big thing for our industry big [00:07:00] recognition.
And since that time, another thing happened, which is a little bit off center, but it’s important, which is the Hilton then bought the graduate brand of hotels, which are located in US college campuses. And the reason that’s significant is because prior to the pandemic, there were a lot of brands that were bought and sold and by the major companies mainly.
But it really, that sort of acquiring of brands went pretty quiet over the last few years. And I think It’s significant because there are a number of brands that are trying to scale in our sector and the evidence of value of brands in hospitality had been a little bit a couple of years old and what people were paying on an earnings basis.
And so the graduate acquisition was really just of the brand and the franchise rights. So it didn’t include any Bricks and Mortar. It didn’t include any management contracts. It was literally just the franchise rights, franchise fee flow, and the ability to grow that brand moving forward. At 250 million [00:08:00] For just a small percentage of rooms revenue.
It’s a lot of money. And and I think it’s it bodes well for brands and brand scaling. So I just wanted to build on from the Hilton Auto Camp acquisition or not acquisition, but relationship to then that acquisition of a I think there’s only 12 or 13 of them. So it’s really important and it’s good for our industry.
Brian Searl: So how do you think that’s going to lead into glamping? Like how do you think that’s going to tie in?
Todd Wynne-Parry: I think that the concept of a a brand putting together five, 10, 15 product outlets. And then getting paid anywhere from 12 to 20 times earnings on just the franchise fees, forget the manager fees, just the franchise fees it bodes well for it means that the brands that are scaling right now that some very much want to get purchased at some point, it, it points in a positive direction that could [00:09:00] take place.
Yeah, I think that’s the big telltale.
Jeremy Budge: How much do you know about the AutoCamp Hilton partnership? Is that just a marketing partnership?
Todd Wynne-Parry: From my understanding, it is just opening up the AutoCamp website. Product line to Hilton honors guest loyalty, guest members to book directly, probably either earn or use their loyalty points as well.
Jeremy Budge: And that Hilton’s taking a commission on sales basically. And that’s the,
Todd Wynne-Parry: If it’s booked through there, I’m sure they’ll take a clip. They’ll clip something on the way through. Of course.
Jeremy Budge: Yeah. I heard is it under canvas also through the small laundry hotels is on the Hyatt platform as well now.
Todd Wynne-Parry: I heard something like that, but I’m not, I’ve not confirmed that.
Brian Searl: It makes sense. It’s Hilton with SLS now, right? It was Hyatt, and now it’s Hilton? No, that’s too different.
Todd Wynne-Parry: With SLS. With
Brian Searl: SLS, [00:10:00] with a small luxury hotel. I
Todd Wynne-Parry: thought. Oh, small luxury hotels. SLH.
Brian Searl: SLH. Sorry. I apologize.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah.
Brian Searl: But they did switch flags, right?
They were with Hyatt and then they’re with Hilton. So that’s what I think the question was. Is Under Canvas was part of them now or not part of them, but affiliated with them? Could be.
Todd Wynne-Parry: I’m not sure. SLS is, or SLH, Small Luxury Hotels and Preferred Hotels. These are opt in group marketing.
Membership things that, that usually work pan brand, so they, there could be, they could be, you could be a small OG hotel of a number of brands, or it could be completely independent. Sometimes there’s both.
Brian Searl: Yeah, I don’t want to spend too much time on it. I was just curious from like it’s still very interesting as we watch the growth of the industry and in North America, specifically with glamping and how it gets closer and closer to the hotels.
So just it’ll be very interesting to see how that continues to evolve. So let’s go to Jeremy. So give us I know you give us a [00:11:00] primary brief intro, but talk to us a little bit about how did you get into the business? Like all the things you could do including put your microphone in the middle of your shot.
Like I just did things like that. How did you end up operating a resort in Arizona?
Jeremy Budge: So I’ve been in the industry now for a while, about nine years before. Before this, I was with Under Canvas. I was in charge of development for Under Canvas and developed five of their locations.
And even before that, I, in my undergrad worked probably about 2008 or so. I was in a, I did a construction management degree and I was in a real estate development course. And at that time, I don’t think there was really any big glamping players but We had to do a final project, and I did a project on a, basically a glamping resort.
I didn’t even know to call it that at that point and everybody was what in the heck are you, what are you thinking about? And but, so that kind of basic idea has been in my head for a while, and then I was able to join up with Under Canvas, and then [00:12:00] recently we’ve been open, like I said, for about a year and a half and, in development for a couple of years before that.
So this latest venture, Backland, is one I’ve done on my own and yeah, it’s just a so culmination of a lot of ideas and dreams and I, and things I thought could be done differently and better in certain ways. So yeah.
Brian Searl: So two part question, and sorry for all the birds who are trying to make a guest appearance apparently on my new house.
I wish that we had one guy on here on the Campground RV show who’s a bird crazy enthusiast, and he was calling out who the birds were chirping on behind Scott Knapp on one of the shows. Anyway so two questions, two part, I think. Number one is, what do you think you’re doing or you want to do differently at your resort that kind of sets you apart from everything else that you’ve seen?
And then two, How do you think your time with UnderCanvas impacted that, or changed what you may have done differently prior to that knowledge that you gained through UnderCanvas?
Jeremy Budge: So one thing, yeah, one thing that’s really different about [00:13:00] our site we have these tents that we’re using, they’re unique tents that I’ve designed they, We’re designed specifically for this site, partly in response to a lot of the regulatory requirements that we had, but also in response to a lot of the problems I’ve seen in the standard glamping model.
Our tents are they’re permanent structures. They’re fully code compliant energy code compliant fully insulated. And so I think, one, one thing that’s tough in a glamping situation, a lot of times is You’re trying to provide a luxury experience but you’re, a lot of times you’re still in just a, a thin walled canvas tent and heating and cooling something that’s not, has, zero insulation values, it’s not the most environmentally friendly thing to do in the first place but it’s also it’s hard to make that really comfortable a lot of times and so finding a way to actually have a fully insulated tent has been, a game changer, I think.
And then also The design of the tent, the tent’s in full tension all the [00:14:00] time, so there’s no loose, flappy things going on it’s a lot of, I’ve slept in a lot of, typical safari tent type of tents, and slept maybe half the time, but, the wind, when the wind blows, everything’s shaking around, and it’s loud and this is a windy site, and sometimes and having everything fully tensioned and our tents can handle 115, are engineered for 115 mile an hour winds and 60 pounds per snow, per square foot snow loads which are the code requirements in this area. So our tents stay up year round and they handle all the weather and all the wind And then, one thing that’s bummer about the standard kind of canvas tent is that at night when you zip it all up, you really can’t see the where you are, you’re the, there’s no glass windows or anything like that.
And so we, we put it a lot of glass into our, in our units, they’re, the whole front of our tent is a 16 foot wide panoramic window sliding door. And then we have, Also, 16 foot wide skylights above the [00:15:00] beds, and so you can lay in bed at night and, watch for shooting stars and but also be comfortable in a campfire.
Brian Searl: I want you to answer the under canvas thing in a second, but Zach, I’m just curious if you have any thoughts on the different architecture things that he’s describing. Also, if loose, flappy things is a term, like mute, and then you can’t hear this like crazy botanical garden that’s going on behind me. The dog is racing back and forth chasing the birds and
Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, Jeremy is actually a client of ours.
We helped him get the permits and the construction drawings for his base camp structure. And so I’ve been to his property, I’ve seen his tents. He’s being very humble about really just the. Accomplishment that represents to have a year round glamping operation in the region and the jurisdiction he’s in.
is unheard of. And I think he will probably, [00:16:00] he I know he’s the first and he will probably be the last to ever accomplish what he’s done. So it, it is pretty incredible. But I think, he highlights something that’s really important that guest experience peace balanced with the business side.
He’s created these custom units that are still a tent and create that really unique guest experience and all these opportunities to, look up in bed and see the stars. But doing it from a business perspective,
Brian Searl: all right, Jeremy. So back to your. Under Canvas question, that second part that I asked you. So of the time that you spent with Under Canvas, obviously you learned a lot, you developed a couple resorts, like you said. Are there things that you took away from that you brought into your own resorts? Or didn’t bring in, perhaps?
Jeremy Budge: Yeah, just general, a lot of those, a lot of the challenges I was mentioning with tense, were challenges that we had at UnderCanvas with, the standard Canvas tense, and so I think solving for some of those issues was a big thing. I think really what I, I learned at [00:17:00] UnderCanvas and tried to.
Even take to a kind of the next level with this with Backland is I think the most important thing that we’re trying to do is create these meaningful and memorable experiences for people in nature that they can share with people they care about most, and you if you ask people what they remember throughout their life, it’s most of your life you forget.
And it’s these peak moments. There’s a book I was reading recently by Chip and Dan Heath, it’s called The Power of Moments, and it’s being able to take something he said the moments that we really remember are ones that there’s some kind of components that he’s defined, but it’s elevating, it’s an elevating experience, and also it’s an experience that brings connection And so taking something that’s, camping, and this is common to a lot of glamping resorts, but taking something that’s, normal camping and making it something that’s really special is a really elevating kind of experience.
And then also you’re giving people, we don’t do Wi Fi in our tents on purpose, and we try to get [00:18:00] people to unplug and just connect with each other and with nature, and and, that was something we also didn’t do it under Canvas, but, we do, you talk to some people who are in this kind of, here in this space, your RV park space, and they say, Wi Fi is like water, it’s it’s something that you can’t live without, and we get an occasional rare comment about, I wish there was Wi Fi in the tents, but most people, they’re playing board games with their families, they’re having they’re actually talking to each other, their kids aren’t on the screens, the whole time, and And it’s really just getting people back to that, creating these wonderful, memorable experiences.
And at Backland we’ve tried to, not just be a place to sleep as well, but also have, some more fun amenities and stuff that create those moments as well. We have telescopes that we bring out at night and do stargazing and, look at planets and Saturn’s rings and.
We have nature trails, we have a spa tent as well that we do massages in, we have fire pit with s’mores, we have bird, we have binoculars that we let people use for bird watching, and we have a nature scavenger hunt and [00:19:00] then we just do a lot of little things like, we even have little picture frame that is in the tent that when they walk in and there’s a little card in it that says, Come by, come stop by the lobby and we’ll we have this, one of those Polaroid cameras, basically, and we’ll take a little family picture with them, and then they get to take that frame home, and they see that on their mantle, and it’s just a reminder of this fun experience, this memorable experience that they’ve had, and so I think it’s just, yeah that’s the kind of the main Takeaways, from being in the industry for a long time is really making sure that you’re creating this elevated and memorable experience for people.
That’s a full experience and not just a place to sleep.
Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure, and that ends up, I think, making all the difference. It’s just some of those unique things that aren’t necessarily huge changes. Let’s go on to Gene real quick. Gene talking about unique experiences. 3D printed homes. Sure. I know you gave us the intro, but for those of us who want to know more like me and who are geeks and for everybody else who wants to know more too, tell us about your your company.
Gene Eidelman: Sure. Thank you, Brian. [00:20:00] Yeah, we are general contractors and started the company five years ago. And the goal was to find ways to build a faster, less expensive and with positive environmental impact. We looked at 3D printing, saw a lot of 3D printing with cement, which is not good for the environment.
So we asked ourselves the question, why not do it with recycled plastic? And so we developed technology to be able to do that. I printed our first prototype two years ago, started manufacturing and shipping last May, and in terms of significant things happening just in the last months, we moved into a state of the art facility Here in Los Angeles, 20, 000 square feet, we can make three units a day.
And secondly, we got approved by the state of Colorado to bring a facility to Denver within the next nine months where we will be manufacturing in a second location. But demand’s been pretty incredible. Our units are, so I’m sitting in one little studio. [00:21:00] And it’s made from equivalent of 100, 000 empty water bottles.
So it’s sustainable, it’s a really example of a circular economy. We save the landfills and oceans from all the plastic that we generate. And when this unit can be easily relocated. This one is actually sitting on wheels so it can be moved. And when it comes to an end of its useful life, 20, 30, 40 years from now, it can be recycled into something.
The units are very well insulated. We are standard insulation of R30, but we have some customers in Canada who are looking for R49 and we can do that. They can sustain up to 150 miles an hour winds. And our first client so it was really intended for backyard studios and ADUs or tiny homes, but the first client, it was a glamping resort.
So we worked with Three Bones and Big Sur, beautiful property on the Pacific Ocean. And when the owner saw [00:22:00] an image of our first unit on Facebook, he jumped on his Harley and drove down to our factory and wanted to make sure the first unit goes in his development. And so he bought a unit that’s 180 square feet.
With all the options, it was about 60, 000 and he rents it for 750 a night, so a real nice return on investment. And it just fits in that development, it’s totally off grid, because the unit is so well insulated with solar panels, it maintains beautiful temperature inside all seasons. Big Sur had first hurricane.
Remember, California has lots of other natural disasters, like wildfires and earthquakes, but no hurricanes. We had our first hurricane winds this January. And it was stood so much better than some of the other structures they have at the resort. So we are really excited to participate in the glamping industry.
We as I mentioned in my introduction, we’re working with the developer to have 25 of our units in January. Joshua [00:23:00] Tree. We have a development in San Diego, we install the three units are getting 20 more or 21 more. All in all have a lot of interest from around the US and globally. Yeah lots of potential.
We, the beauty of our units, we can really customize ’em, but 3D printing allows to do is can customize. So we’re gonna have units with with skylights. We can have units, different colors. You know how different people want to have different experience in the resort, but we are able to be a sole supplier and create different experiences with some of our elements.
And secondly, we’re very fast and expensive. Yeah.
Brian Searl: We’ll talk a little bit about more about that, right? And I’d love to have all my recurring guests here. Please pop in and ask whatever you want so that I can talk less again. But my initial opening question to you is let’s back up a little bit for the people who are watching this show who are maybe.
Not at all, or a little bit familiar with the concept of 3D printing, how it works, how you can take plastic bottles and make a building, the creativity and flexibility you have with it, and it will have in the [00:24:00] future. I think it would be interesting to just talk about how that works on a base level, because that’s exciting to me, but I’m also excited to get to the point where like Zach can generate an AI image thing on his thing and just be like, print.
Gene Eidelman: Literally, It is not that automatic, but it’s highly automated. Not yet, but it might
Brian Searl: be in 20 years.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah. We use a combination of recycled plastic and fiberglass. Fiberglass is what adds rigidity to our products, so we give a minimum 10 year warranty on the product. In terms of designs, if you go to our website, we have four different designs on our website.
It’s www. AzurePrintHomes. com. And literally somebody could order a unit tomorrow and the smaller unit without a bathroom can be done in five days. The unit was bathroom, kitchen, shower, can be done in three to four weeks. We just had an order yesterday from Texas and we’ll deliver the unit on April 30th.
The incredible speed, the ability to [00:25:00] customize. So while we have the four different designs on our website color, interior, exterior, cabinets appliances, you name it. They are highly aligning fixtures. You really can have something that’s very unique to you. And it totally, we make it in the factory, so we totally finish it in the factory.
When it arrives to the site, if it has foundations, we just need to attach it to the foundation, and we can also give customers Our foundation designs or if it’s or if it can be, or it can arrive on wheels and then it just be a tie down like an RV or camping ground environment.
Brian Searl: So I guess what I would love to have you do, if you have the brief knowledge for, is just for the people who have no idea how 3D printing works.
If I didn’t know how 3D printing works. I would imagine you like chucking plastic bottles into a thing and like it oozing, I don’t know, right? Like for somebody who has no clue or no concept of how this works, I think it’s important for them to get a base understanding of the power and possibilities of [00:26:00] this technology.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah very good question. I I’ve been We’ve emerged in this for the last five years. That’s
Brian Searl: the same thing with me. That’s why I’m pushing you, right? Like I know all about it, right? But sometimes we forget that this doesn’t come across somebody’s desk and they don’t realize like there’s already a sub that’s been printed with 3D printing and it’s already pretty advanced.
Gene Eidelman: In terms of material, so don’t go directly to, we don’t recover plastic bottles, but we work with four different suppliers. We give them the formulation of what we need, and they provide to us pellets. It comes in small pellets like this that has all the ingredients.
It has a recycled plastic, fiberglass, UV stabilizer, all of the material in these pellets. The pellets go in a big bin, and they’re attached to a to an instrument that’s called an extruder. Extruder is a piece of equipment that basically takes these pellets and melts them. And we use architectural software to design the [00:27:00] unit itself so that basically the extruder is attached to a large robotic arm, like a large industrial robot.
You probably see pictures of them, videos of them on a lot of plants. And the robotic arm moves the extruder around and it melts layer by layer. So we print layer by layer. It takes under 24 hours to build the module, to build the exterior of the building. We print the roof, two side walls, and the floor so that happens in one day.
And then we create, we leave channels, we leave areas inside the structure to put electric, plumbing, water. And depending on the size of the unit and what kind of features it has, Then in our factory, we finish it with a bathroom, kitchen, shower a living area and that’s done in kind of more of a traditional way, the way you think of homes are finished.
But what takes most of the time and most of [00:28:00] the expense is build the structure. And so we use a totally automated process for that. So there is no lumber, there is no roofing, there is no metal, there is no waterproofing. The unit is totally watertight because it’s down printed in one go. So it’s a, it’s really the future of construction.
We have a affordability crisis in the world because it’s so expensive to build. And technology really has not moved very much. And then if you, again, compare construction industry to auto industry. A hundred years ago, we, people used to ride the horse. And now, of course, we have electric vehicles.
With construction, 100 years ago, there was a carpenter with a hammer and a nail, and it’s still done the same way. That’s why it takes so, it’s so expensive and takes so long. The 3D printing technology in construction is really way overdue, and I really believe that it’s the future. And really, Glamping Industries is a perfect customer for [00:29:00] us.
Because we can show off our off grid capabilities, ability to do something fast. And I love working with entrepreneurs in glamping industry. People who have an idea and want to try to implement it. But also work with consultants and architects. Many times people come to us, just seeing some of our images on the website, but really don’t know how to go about implementing it.
Getting all the permits and our facilities are fully licensed and then we met the, being as a contractor to get into this business, first thing we’re worried about, how are people going to get permits so we can help folks, so it’s mainly through referral industry to refer them to either architects who work in space or consultants who can help them with I’m an expert on the industry, but I really can envision.
I’ve built thousands of units in my development career and can help people envision and bring to reality something that [00:30:00] will be beautiful looking, sustainable, and sustainable.
Brian Searl: And that’s one of the things that interests me, right? I agree with you. I think it’s the future of construction for sure. But I’m interested in all the people we have here, right? Angel, Alessandro, Chris, Zach. I know I spoke for Zach, right? But come on, Zach, that would be cool, right?
I’ve got a question. Yeah, go ahead.
Zach Stoltenberg: One thing that I think is What is very unique about both of our guests today is that they have a unique one off design unit, something that had never been done before, something that’s new to the industry. I’m glad that Gene mentioned how the glamping industry is really helping launch.
A lot of products that may end up finding their way into, other non hospitality related industries, as we see the modular bathroom pods and kitchen pods and, that’s funding a lot of the development for affordable housing having some of these units that, like Gene said, [00:31:00] we can produce one of these in 5 days, right?
We can cut the time. I the glamping industry is a stepping stone, I think, to much larger markets much deeper pockets. But it’s cool that, our industry is starting to fuel some of that. And so while listening to, everything that was shared, the question that I had, anytime you do something new, anytime you do something different or, you’re on the cutting edge, you’re going to bleed a little bit, right?
So I want to hear from both Jeremy and Gene, as you were going through this process of designing something that’s a, a first of its kind Jeremy with your tents and Gene with your 3D printed units. Talk about some of the challenges with building code, with permits, with, a process that, like Gene said, really has remained largely unchanged, for over 100 years.
And sometimes the rigidity of [00:32:00] regulations. And codes don’t always allow for new creative ideas. So maybe talk a little bit about maybe something you had to overcome or some problem that you solved in designing your units to, to try to, meet a somewhat antiquated,
Gene Eidelman: I’ll be more than happy to address this so there is such a push for more affordable housing that manufactured housing industry, I think, has been one of the leaders. And so we worked with ICC, International Construction Coal Organization. While it’s international in the name, it’s really primarily in the U.
They basically created a criteria that they vetted with building officials around the country. of what our product should have. So that was a huge kind of push before we could make a first product, but now we’re working together with ICC to develop criteria of what what are the qualities of this product from rigidity, from all of the and we looked at four Seismic, high winds, snow loads, what do we need to maintain in order for this to be scalable around the U. S.? Globally, our organization So have you done
Go ahead.
Zach Stoltenberg: Gene, have you done laboratory testing on your units? Have you sent that to a university or lab test and no,
Gene Eidelman: ICC has their own laboratories, right? Yeah. No we’ve done both computer simulated designs before we printed the first unit.
And then once we went [00:34:00] to print, there is a very, there is a way to, to do during 2000 hours to do a 20 year. Testing regime. So you can put your materials through 2, 000 hours of lab testing, and it’ll give you an idea of how it’ll, how the material will will perform in 20 years and then internationally, UL has a similar, a little bit different process, but UL has labs here in the U.
S., in Canada, in England. And that’s going to be our next stage. We will go through similar testing with UL. They look at some different criteria, but they also, they now have a standard for 3D printing. It was not, yeah, lots of people wonder whether we just had the idea and now have to prove ourselves.
There is now some criteria that’s been established for how for new material to be tested. And And we’re on the way. Yeah, I think what helped us a lot was the fact that we’re construction, that we’re, our background is in construction. So we thought of how does someone [00:35:00] permit this before we even started designing our first unit.
Zach Stoltenberg: Jeremy,
Jeremy Budge: same question. I guess before I answer that, I’ve got a follow up question for Gene there, but we did a, we did our restaurant kitchen was a modular unit. And. Getting that permitted was no walk in the park either. And one of the things that for Arizona, I know, is that it had to be built in a facility that was licensed as a modular manufacturer in Arizona.
It didn’t have to be built in Arizona, but it had to be licensed in Arizona. Are you, do you see that with every state, or is that? Arizona specific thing or?
Gene Eidelman: No, so there are 20 states. Arizona, unfortunately, is not one of them that have a process that allows for third party approval of plans and third party inspection in the West.
It’s only California, but as you spread this 20 states spread around the Sunbelt, so Texas, [00:36:00] Florida, Carolinas, Georgia, California. And then there are a number of states in the Midwest where kind of manufactured housing started, so Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan allows us, and even in the Northeast, like Massachusetts.
So there are 20 states that follow a similar regime. They allow third party inspection agency to approve the plans and then third party approval agency to come to our factory and approve the unit. So we just shipped the unit to Palm Springs. It left with a permit. So the only thing that local authorities will need to do, local inspection agency will still need to approve the permit.
Foundation Utilities, but the structure itself is fully permanent. In a state like Arizona, there is a process where we’re in that process now. So we’ve applied with Arizona to get approval and once we are approved, we will have the ability to do the same thing. So a number of other states are moving. I mentioned that we were very excited to be selected by Colorado to establish a facility there.
The state is providing us [00:37:00] almost 4 million of low interest funding. For And one of the agencies that was around the table during the approval process was the agency that said we’re interested in moving in the same direction to accelerate permitting to allow third party inspectors and approval agencies.
Utah just passed the law just last week that makes it simpler to do manufactured housing. Yeah Jeremy, good question and Arizona needs, was the growth it has. Probably needs to change the regulation a little bit and it’s not like they’re not gonna be the first one. There are 20 other states.
And if anybody on this podcast would like me to email you the states that have different reg regulatory approvals, I’ll be more than happy to do. Great.
Brian Searl: I think it’s back to you, Jeremy. Zach’s question.
Jeremy Budge: Yeah. So the question is building something unique. How do we navigate the permitting challenges for that?
Yeah, that is something that’s very different than just going and building a standard product. And having built [00:38:00] built resorts all over the country, with Under Campus before this as well. The trickiest thing is that no, there’s no one answer that fits For every jurisdiction, the hurdles you have to jump through in one place are different than the hurdles you have to jump through in another place.
And those hurdles seem to be getting more and more difficult. When I first started going into counties and jurisdictions to, for Under Canvas and telling them, we want to build this thing called a Glamping Resort. And they’re like, what is that? And you’d have to explain the whole thing to them.
And now You walk in and they’re like, okay you’re the 10th person today that’s asking me that same question. And so they’re definitely writing a lot more rules and regulations and some of that’s positive and some of it makes it harder for, depending on where you are.
But, so yeah for this particular site, we had a lot of unique And I could probably talk for two hours about all the little things. I’m not sure that would be but yeah, I [00:39:00] think maybe hit some of the highlights.
I
Zach Stoltenberg: know, your wind load is exceptionally high that had an influence on.
The design of your units. The need for a very high R value, you’re in a high desert in Arizona, so summers are really hot when it’s really cold.
Jeremy Budge: Yep. Yeah. And I, and then it’s everything from, how you make that, that that wall system fit the code. A lot of glamping resorts are not getting, permanent.
They’re not being permitted as permanent structures like we are, and so they don’t have to deal with this these kind of questions, for us, we had to meet the R values that any permanent building would have to meet in a tent, and that’s a really tricky thing to figure out how to do.
We were able to do it with a mixture of, we have an outer layer of our, waterproof PVC membrane that’s on the outside. But then, from there, it goes through spray foam. or a Tyvek in a spray foam and then a, a fire, spray foam has to be fireproofed and so there’s a fireproofing coating [00:40:00] and then there’s Even the canvas that we use on the inside we had to send out for testing to make sure it was ASTM E84 Class A fabric for, flame spread and smoke development, all of that, and so it’s these little things that, if you think I’m just going to go throw up a tent and it’s going to be easy, it’s not, it’s there’s a lot of things you got to figure out and that’s just, one of, One of the things, planning and zoning and fitting into people, the development plan for communities is also something that is a really important thing to consider.
I think probably half of the projects that I’ve looked at that we put under contract, probably end up. Falling falling out of, we probably end up pulling the plug on because of, just issues like that. And so yeah, it’s a, it’s different everywhere you go.
And if I chime in on this,
Gene Eidelman: I just want to be able to jump in. Yeah I agree that doing one off would be very [00:41:00] difficult. So I think that for folks who want to get some scale. Working with manufactured housing providers probably the way to do.
Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, to follow up on that, too. And it plays to just what Gene said.
Can you guys talk about some of the costs for that? Jeremy, you mentioned sending in fabric to get it tested. I’m guessing there’s an expense with having that done. The ICC testing and things, there’s an expense with that. And when you’re building one or two or even 10 units, it’s difficult to justify some of those expenses.
When you’re scaling and you’re working with a affordable housing developer that wants to put 2, 000 units out over the next year, then it’s easier to justify a 50, 000, test or something in order to prove that. What you’re, what you’ve built to save.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah. No, testing was a quarter million dollars.
So yeah, you couldn’t do it if you were just saying, we’re going to advertise it over a small [00:42:00] development. We raised the 5 million in the last last year and just launch our new campaign to raise another 5 million. to basically to be able to bring it to scale, do additional testing. And in terms of the cost, it’s very reasonable.
Again we are generally around 200 per square foot. And that’s like getting a totally completed unit, 200 to 220. We find that in the glamping industry, we’re very competitive. And this is producing out of our California factory as time goes on, we will, our plan is within the next two years to have a factory in every time zone in the U.
So there is global interest. There is a global need. And and it [00:43:00] just, working with glamping developers is I feel like every client we get has a Their own entrepreneurial story. I just love this. I’m myself from Ukraine. And I’ve been around the world. So I love hearing the stories and coming out with something that will work uniquely for a particular development.
Brian Searl: Okay, so we only have 10 minutes left, but
Gene Eidelman: I want to no,
Brian Searl: it’s okay. I just want to make sure everybody has a chance here. So I know, I think Chris wanted to ask a question. And then I want to, I would love to get, just after Chris talks, I’d love to get Angèle’s thoughts on, from a franchise perspective, do things like 3D printing and this technology and unique designs.
Make sense for you as you continue to expand your operations. Todd, I’m very curious from a hotel perspective, does this help us differentiate the industry more? Is this something that gets hotels more into glamping? And then Alessandro, just from a European perspective, is this something you could see using at your properties?
Go ahead, Chris.
Chris Jeub: Yeah, I was just going to say, I was just going to comment, this is a very kind of [00:44:00] a fascinating discussion. It doesn’t surprise me that glamping is housing some of your structures, Gene, because we’re in just a creative field. And with creativity, that creativity just upsets everybody in zoning and building, building departments.
Zach, we have a good laugh because our regional building department was telling us to put sprinklers in our tents for a while. So we sat down with the guys and pulled the three ring binders out and the ICC regulations and tried to figure it out. Crack the code, you might say. So glamping operators are tasked with cracking the code and creating these creative structures and setting them in place so that people can enjoy it.
So that was just my comment I find this a fascinating discussion that, on that on that realm.
Brian Searl: Yeah, it’s way more complicated than getting my camera to work and not be blinding right behind me, wants to go first? Todd, Angèle, alessandro?
Angele Miller: I can go. So for me I think what you’re doing [00:45:00] Jean it’s fantastic.
And I think the glamping industry, for me, especially with the franchise model, is we want to create consistency and really also elevate the local culture and design. I think what would also be, like, very interesting with what you’re doing. With the 3D modeling is as in the glamping industry, everybody has different types of One, in terms of, either being on a slope or not on a slope or flat or by a river or by a mountain, and for us in franchising also is to find those structures that are going to be able to fit and accommodate all these different climates and regions in the types of consistency.
So with the tree design, do you find my question to you is that it would help. Establish the ability to do that and be very consistent because you can custom a little bit more than perhaps other [00:46:00] manufacturers in glamping.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah, no good questions. We really can, by definition, we can customize the designs in terms of the how different units for, how units are designed for different climates it’s very tough to do one off, but if somebody wants to develop a unique design for 20, 30 units, now that, that becomes much easier.
But even in the situation where somebody only wants to order a few units, we offer enough options. On our website where somebody can really develop something that looks very unique or wants to order a number of the units and they can have different looks and feels about them so that people have a little bit of a different experience staying in the same resort different times of the year.
Angele Miller: Yeah, thank you. That’s really good. And one last comment I want to mention too is I know for us, like here being in Atlantic Canada, we’re dealing with a lot of [00:47:00] condensation. Which can be challenging in the glamping segment, and also like being that it’s very cold in the winter to have a glamping unit that’s properly well insulated, because a lot of glamping unit, yeah, they come with insulation, but it doesn’t make it for us and mine as well.
40 or 50 degrees here so that’s been a challenge for all the glamping resorts. There’s probably over 50 glamping resorts, even just in New Brunswick alone here in Atlantic Canada. It’s an industry that’s just completely exploded and strived, but the challenge had been with most people is number one, the condensation is extremely high.
So having the big skylight and things like that in our segment is very challenging because it will drip water. Continuously being with the condensation but also to have the proper insulation. Like for us, for example, we had to spray foam the units in order to be able to control the humidity levels and the condensation levels into our units.
So is that [00:48:00] something that you guys are taking a lead with also in your type of products that you’re manufacturing.
Gene Eidelman: Yeah. No, our units are designed to withstand cold weather and with the newest condensation. So yeah, we might, again, look at this unique condition and doing a skylight in an area like this might not be a great idea, but but we are, our team is full of structural and mechanical engineers.
And and in terms of, so you understand how we can alter the the insulation, we print an outside bead, which is outside the wall, and then on the inside bead. So we leave space for insulation. So for a standard R30, it’s a six inch space that would fill with insulation. For your area, R49 might be required.
So now we need to leave three more inches. So really, as we print units. Again even in Colorado, Colorado has four unique climates, and so it will make sense to open the [00:49:00] factory there because now we can have climates that maybe have A frame roofs, so for easier for the snow loads and higher insulation, so yeah, we can definitely, and we’d love to go.
We’d love to work with you, the fact that you’re franchising this I assume around the world we’re the kind of perfect partner to take this to unique climates. But our units will do very well in both very cold climates and very hot climates
Angele Miller: as well. I look forward to seeing your product.
And also, Jeremy, I look forward to visiting your resort by the Grand Canyon, by the way. It looks like it’s going to be amazing there.
Brian Searl: Yeah, shoot me a message. We can work that out. Todd, your thoughts on hotel? And I know we only have a couple minutes left, so please talk however long you want. But just if anybody needs to jump off and has a hard stop, thank you for being here.
And feel free to drop off whenever you want.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, thanks. Thanks Brian. Just real quickly Gene, I know Gene and we’ve talked about some opportunities for growth. I think from the hotel perspective, hotels are [00:50:00] always about scale and size. And so there’s already been modular construction in the past, whether it’s by panels, where actually units put them together.
I think there’s definitely an application in the bigger hotel world, but it’s just, I think it’s going to be like 100 plus unit and might be a modular format or something like that. But, yeah. Actually I had a question for Jeremy and that was with your experience with UnderCanvas and brand expansion.
Are you looking to take Backlands to other destinations?
Jeremy Budge: Yeah, definitely. I think, we’re pretty early in our growth stage right now with trying to nail the first experience. But, yeah, fairly soon we’d like to be, start looking at other locations.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Great. When that comes up, I’d love to talk to you about your growth strategy.
I’d be interested to hear how you look at doing that.
Brian Searl: Yeah, that’d be great. All right. Alessandro.
Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, thanks. I actually I have two points. I think Gene what I, what we see here in Europe is that we have some manufacturers who are actually building this I call it prefab. We call it mobile homes, but it’s like at the end [00:51:00] cabins that are built out of Yeah, plastic materials.
And I think difference is they’re not printed, but they’re like assembled. And I really think your technology can be like the evolution of this kind of product. And we really see that this product is installed, especially in the operations that are placing like 50 to 200, like same type of units to create one resort.
And I think that’s very interesting. But personally, I’m, I really believe that the future of the small scale locations is more to have like the one of the specific pieces. And then if I understand it correctly, maybe the scale is not really interesting to build to 3d print a lot of them.
So yeah, definitely. I think for the European market. On this bigger operations where scale is really interesting. It could be a very interesting technology for the future.
Gene Eidelman: And Alessandro, we’re using Italian robots and Dutch extruders. . I actually
Alessandro van de Loo: You’re perfectly made for me, actually.
Exactly.[00:52:00]
Brian Searl: All right. Nice. Does anybody have any final thoughts? I know we had a big, long discussion. I feel like we need a two hour show, maybe, but I don’t know if anyone here wants to commit to that long but super great discussions. I hate to come off every week, but does anybody have any final thoughts?
No, you’re all going to be shy now.
Zach Stoltenberg: You may want to give a shout out to our sponsor. We always seem to forget that to the very end of the show.
Brian Searl: I know somebody’s got to be in charge of that. Do we have, I don’t even know who the sponsor is of this show. It’s Horizon Outdoor Hospitality. I do know that. But super excited.
Yeah. I’m grateful always for Horizon Outdoor Hospitality for sponsoring the show. And everybody sticks into the end anyways, Zach, like they all listen to this amazing discussion that you guys have. They tolerate me. And so at the end of the show is the time to mention our sponsor. Without Dr. Hospitality, who’s just, they provide RV park campground management services.
I’m sure they have some people with glamping resorts underneath there, belts to just a really great company. Scott’s losing his team. So if you’re looking for anything for RV park [00:53:00] management services, or even on the accounting side. They’ve got experts in all those different areas. I’m just grateful to have them as a sponsor for the show.
But yeah, I really appreciate everybody being here. It was great to meet you, Gene. Excited to see where Azure Apprentice Homes goes from here. Jeremy, your resort as well. And then especially if you expand, we’d love to have you back on the show to talk about that. Chris, Angel, Todd, Zach, Alessandro as always.
I feel like we never get to talk as much as we should get to talk since you guys are recurring guests, but I still feel like we have good conversations. I don’t know if that balances it out, but I hope so. So thank you guys all for being here. Take care. And we’ll see you next week for another episode of Mc Fireside Chats.
Take care, guys. See you. Thank you, care.
Todd Wynne-Parry: Bye.
Thank you. Joining us for this episode of Mc Fireside Chats with your host, Brian Searl. Have a suggestion for a show idea. Want your campground or company new future episode? Email us at [email protected]. Get your daily dose of news from modern campground.com and be sure to join us next week for more insights.
Welcome to the fascinating world of outdoor [00:54:00] hospitality.