MC Fireside Chats – February 28th, 2024

This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show featuring conversations with thought leaders, entrepreneurs, and outdoor hospitality experts who share their insights to help your business succeed. Hosted by Brian Searl, the founder and CEO of Insider Perks, empowered by insights from Modern Campground, the most innovative news source in the industry.

Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian [00:01:00] Searl with Insider Perks. Super excited to be here with you for our. Welcome to the fourth week episode. We’re talking to you about the RV industry, RV dealers, RV whoever we’ve got on the show today, right? We’re excited to have one of our recurring guests here.

The rest of them are in super secret important meetings, probably at the Toronto RV Camping Show, which is starting this week. But excited to welcome back Susan Carpenter from the RV Women’s Alliance. And then we’ve got three really cool special guests here that we’re going to be talking about. I’m going to just shut up and let them go around the room and introduce Erin, Kathy, and Chris.

Who would like to start? Erin? 

Erin Ruane: Yeah, sure. I’ll jump in. Hello, everybody. Erin Ruane. I am the Chief Marketing Officer at Trader Interactive, and we own and operate RVTrader. com, the U. S. ‘s leading marketplace. Excited to be here. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here. Kathy? 

Cathy Chamberlain: Hi, yeah, I’m Cathy Chamberlain from, I’m from the the UK.

We manufacture a small teardrop tra well, a kind of curved trailer. Not quite a teardrop, a bit bigger than a teardrop, called Barefoot Caravans, which we designed about 12 years ago, and have been manufacturing for 9 years in the UK. [00:02:00] And we’ve licensed it out to America as well, so it’s now manufactured by New Camp in Ohio.

And they launched a year ago, the Barefoot New Camp.

Brian Searl: I’m excited to talk a little bit about that, I’m from Ohio too, so we’re crossing paths all over the place. Italy, Ohio, everywhere else, right? Chris! 

Chris Shashaty: What’s going on? My name is Chris Shashaty, my company is Sequoia + Salt Camper Vans. We build camper vans here in New Jersey. Been around for three and a half years now, and just about at our 200th van.

Been rockin and rollin and, it’s been an incredible ride and just super excited to see where this year takes us. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Chris. Before we get started with you guys Susan, is there anything on your list since last time you’ve been on the show that you feel like we should talk about?

Susan Carpenter: Oh, since last time? Just crazy busy. What’s going forward, I think we just talked about it, is starting Friday. Celebrate the International Women’s Month. It’s a worldwide [00:03:00] initiative to celebrate women in every industry. 

Brian Searl: Hold on for a second, right? So the RV Women’s Alliance, and please introduce yourself for the people who have 

Susan Carpenter: Susan Carpenter with the RV Women’s Alliance.

Brian Searl: Susan, does the RV industry, or either through your organization or elsewhere, do you have special activities or events or ways to recognize women throughout the month? 

Susan Carpenter: So yeah, actually we’re launching a new campaign starting Friday called Rise Together with RVWA. What we’re doing during that campaign is we’re showcasing women throughout the industry and telling their stories of how they rose, and whether it be in their personal life, and their professional life, or a little bit of both, and and it’s not just through, you,

We’re going to have a webinar mid month, and we’re going to have an [00:04:00] in person networking party at the end of the month to close it off and to celebrate a month worth celebrating. 

Brian Searl: So I have a question for you, and it’s like putting it on the spot a little bit. We’re talking about some of these smaller manufacturers who are not in Elkhart.

How do you incorporate those people into something like the RV Women’s Alliance when a lot of what you’re talking about, I’m assuming in person, is happening at Elkhart? 

Susan Carpenter: We do branch out. Starting Friday for one, at the Toronto RV Camping Show, we’re having a breakfast up there to kick off their trade show and to kick off the month.

We usually find sponsors that’s willing to do it throughout the country. We have networking. When we do our RV, our all female RV tech classes with the RV Technical Institute throughout the country, we usually throw in a networking event during that week. This year it’s going to be in Denver, Pennsylvania.

Al Qurt, [00:05:00] of course, and there was one other one, and I’m missing it somewhere along there so we’ll have networking events there, and we also encourage our members that if they have, we have a couple members down, quite a few members down in Texas, and one of them will find a place to host something, and we help.

And then we do some Zoom items too. A lot of our education as well is through Zoom, so it can be virtual, and people can join on no matter where they’re at. Although we are concentrated a lot in Elkhart, because that’s where all the manufacturing takes place, our members are throughout the country and North America, actually.

And we try our best to cover as much as we can. 

Brian Searl: Okay, awesome. So that wasn’t the start of the question, because

Let’s I dunno, let’s pick. Who should we start with, Susan? You pick. 

Susan Carpenter: Let’s pick Chris. Since he’s the outlier of all these beautiful people. 

Brian Searl: I don’t know anything about Chris because he was late and showed up at the back end at 30 minutes. But 

Susan Carpenter: [00:06:00] you’re not on the spot. 

Brian Searl: Don’t worry, Chris, I won’t call you out in front of everybody and tell them that.

Chris Shashaty: It’s okay. I apologize for that. I’m here. 

Brian Searl: I’m usually the one that’s late. Sequoia + Salt, tell us what is it? 

Chris Shashaty: Sequoia + Salt is a van conversion company, so We build floor plans. We’re RVIA certified. We build custom vans on chassis from Ram ProMaster, class B RVs specifically.

And yeah, so we, we do custom work or we do our floor plans and you name it, we’ve done it. What we’ve seen in the industry is we’ve I came from the RV world selling RVs. And what I learned is, I, a lot of our customers in that time just could not find what they were looking for.

I came from a background of, I lived in my van and I had been through everything, being a van builder. Breaking down, figuring things out and just falling in love with the country and seeing it from [00:07:00] that angle and then taking my knowledge and building camper vans and rebuilding camper vans and started a company to really hone in on finding, fitting in.

In all those spaces that our customers do not find in the mainstream market. Doing big shows like Hershey RV Show. We did, that was the first year we did Hershey this past year. And, what, it was just such an amazing experience. I’ve done a lot of other shows before, but, they’re the big dog in the RV, RV show market in the country.

And I realized really quickly, it was like, listen, go out there, walk around. If you don’t find what you’re looking for, then you come back here. And we took on so much business just from that show, because we realized that there’s a lot of people, it’s it’s just, it’s really personal needs on what you’re looking for.

And I think we have the ability to make our super high end product that is versatile in every aspect of it for customization to the customer’s lives and their needs and their wants. [00:08:00] 

Brian Searl: So I have a follow up question for you, but before I do, you said you name it and we’ve built it. So do you have a van that flies underneath the Goodyear Blimp if I want to see the country that way?

Chris Shashaty: Are you saying for a name? 

Brian Searl: There’s a bold statement you made, so yeah, I’m assuming you know that one. 

Chris Shashaty: Yeah is that a Goodyear quote? 

Brian Searl: No, I’m just saying, you said name anything and you built it. 

Chris Shashaty: Yeah, so name like it we built for instance, we do elevator beds, we do under mount lounges, we do like floor plan styles we’ve done roof decks, we’ve done Overlander vans super overlander vans with 35 inch tires, so you want trap doors.

We, if a customer, the, there’s only like a, there’s just a few times that I’ve said no now, just because it’s so ridiculous. We had a customer who actually just ended up not working with us because we had an hour conversation and then right towards the end, she’s I really she like.

Just threw this out there. She’s I really like my Peloton bike. I love riding my [00:09:00] Peloton bike inside. I’m like, that’s cool That’s you and then she’s is there a way that I can ride my Peloton bike inside of the van so that it can help Charge the batteries back Because I just I got to take it on the road with me.

I’m like, why don’t you just ride a regular bicycle outside? And that’s where I realized that we can’t do everything 

Brian Searl: It’s a weird idea, but like I’m like the charging of the battery is interesting though. That’s 

Chris Shashaty: I mean You know, with your alternator and your solar. 

Susan Carpenter: It’s probably taking a lot of manpower, or womanpower, I should say.

Chris Shashaty: Yeah 

Cathy Chamberlain: It’s so easy to come up with an idea to actually execute the idea is really difficult, isn’t it? So yeah, I feel your pain we get lots of special requests as well 

Chris Shashaty: And we’ve we figured out ways that we can take on lots of different and to grow from them. We’ve created strategies and processes within our building.

Now that we’ve done so many vans, we’ve made a lot of proprietary [00:10:00] systems, like the way that we interior we made a proprietary frame. Everything is 3d mapped. Everything’s 3d designed, 3d cut. We do mainstream manufacturing through CNC and effectively we can. Really make anything happen inside of our thresholds of our cargo vans because we have three mapped everything at this point.

I think actually what I was gonna touch on a big reason on like us compare for me to compare us So the mainstream market and you know later on we can talk about like RVIA was a big We have a lot of stuff coming out of the mainstream market, so we have a lot of choices to go route to go down for us as well.

But what I’ve realized is that what I see in the mainstream market is a lot of the vans, a lot of the campers there are really just dedicated towards camping at campgrounds. Unless you’ve got a lot of money and then you can potentially get a van that can run off grid. But you have generator power.

The industry, the world right now is we’re just, we’re so battery forward having bigger batteries allows you to last longer so really having components that are [00:11:00] specific to marine market and taking those components and putting them inside of campers we don’t need to have a generator system.

So our batteries can run our ACs off grid for 20 hours, so we’re building a, if you’re not going to be running your generator, your, Your AC unit, our systems with our 400 watts of solar will be self sustaining, so we just have created what I think is more of a Swiss Army knife than what I’ve seen out there.

Brian Searl: So how do you, and this is just partly from a place of ignorance of myself, because I come more from the campground side than I do RVs, right? Sure. But when you think about what is typical mass market that we hear about, and that is a lot of these larger manufacturers create a certain segment of models that they reproduce in the exact same fashion.

And the goal behind that is quicker assembly, less labor, more profit margins in the end is what it leads to, not saying that’s their goal, right? It is, but not their only goal, right? How do you balance that with everything is custom on your end? The margins, [00:12:00] you don’t have to share all that stuff with us, right?

But generally 

Chris Shashaty: There’s definitely a few things that are happening, like right now we’re not selling to dealerships, right? So we are RVIA certified. When we go to these shows, a lot of the dealerships come up to us and they want to represent us. We’re cutting out the middleman. We’re going direct to our consumer, right?

So we’re, we are the brewery. And you’re coming straight to get a beer from us so we can have a better profit margin there. I think the mainstream market is I can’t say anything bad about it because it’s brilliant. There’s, they figured out how to make a lot of money. Obviously, if your products are made quicker, you make better margins.

Obviously, those margins have to be cut when you’re going to be selling at a dealership, but the dealership allows you to have a service. You make so much money in service, but what you realize, though, is by cutting the quality in the product that you’re making, the service centers are now like, try to get, you have a warranty, and I think that’s what the main, the dealers in the mainstream market is saying, is hey, you buy a Winnebago, you can have it serviced at 300 [00:13:00] locations or 1, 000 locations in the country, but the problem is because they are making them so quickly, there’s no quality standard, or there’s, that quality standard has gone down, and you’re seeing that when I worked in an RV, when I was, working at a dealership, their service center makes so much money because they’re always busy.

There’s so much business and service, and so I think that’s a big, big challenge with the market. 

Brian Searl: I don’t know that I have enough experience to comment on that. Susan, do you have anything to add there? We don’t really have anybody who can have a counterpoint to that viewpoint on the show today.

Susan Carpenter: Yeah. What he’s doing is pretty cool. Being able to custom do it. Because your bigger manufacturers don’t have that ability. It’s much more difficult. So you’re filling a niche that, I think there’s a lot of people out there. Van camping is hugely popular, grown exponentially in the industry.

And from a woman’s point of view too, there’s a lot of women that go out solo camping that love the ability of just using a van. [00:14:00] It’s easy to drive. They don’t feel intimidated by it and to customize it. On top of it is, it’s pretty cool. Yeah. So 

Chris Shashaty: I think people are just like inherently getting They’re realizing that this class, the class A’s are just, they’re just so big.

There’s more people every day that live in this country. And I think a lot of people, do they want to take their living room out with them? If it’s just a retired couple? When I was selling campers, I realized that you had a lot of grandparents that were like, Hey, I’m buying this camper for my grand.

My my grandkids, I want to go out and bring my grandkids. And what my exercise to them was always like, go home, write down everything that you want to do with your year and your camping, and then talk about it. Because are you going to bring your grandkids out every weekend? Sure. Then get that van, but you’re going to bring them out one, two times.

A year, maybe. Are you willing to sacrifice that much space inside of your camper just for that one instance? [00:15:00] And I think people are really self auditing and they’re realizing, hey, I get to go out more. I get to do more when I have something smaller. And it’s a lot, it’s challenging to have when you have a Class A or Class C or something like that.

Susan Carpenter: I think that’s marriage and marrying a good salesperson. You must have been very successful at it because it is marrying what you’re going to do. When you’re in the RV and what you buy, and a good salesman is good at requiring to ask those questions 

Brian Searl: Then if you look at that is a trend, right Susan that we’re seeing generally speaking that there are more people who are embracing smaller vehicles RVs than there were in the past, but I feel like this is not a new trend in the UK Is it Kathy?

Like they’ve never been really driving big Class A’s over there, have they? 

Cathy Chamberlain: No, but we manufacture a small caravan. So a lot of what Chris is saying is resonating with me actually as well, because we [00:16:00] don’t involve dealers either. So we just sell directly from our base in the Cotswolds. We now have some customers, we’ve got a lot of customers, obviously, so that some of our owners will show off their barefoot caravans as well to, to people.

But Yeah no, small is becoming more of a thing, yeah, even in the UK actually, so we didn’t have great big units like you have, but even from where they were, they’re becoming smaller, just as Susan was saying, there are more women wanting to go out camping and caravanning on their own, so our caravan is, it’s small, it’s lightweight, it can be towed by one person, but everything’s in there, so you can lock the door at night and you’ve got your shower and your toilet and everything in there, which they appreciate, and yeah, so it’s good, there’s a, I think there’s new buyers really on the market what we’ve just, I was just looking at some statistics, Statistics before I came on just to see where we’re up to in the UK.

And then I know obviously it’s quite difficult times for everyone, but the caravan industry has gone downhill in the UK over the last couple of years, really. And I think since COVID, [00:17:00] people are wanting to you’ve got more people wanting to work in their van, in their leisure vehicles, digital nomads.

You’ve got people embracing this sort of slow living movement that they talk about. You’ve got lots of talk about tiny homes, which Really appeals to lots of people and for us, obviously, it’s because you have to tow it. People appreciate that you can just tow something small and neat and it’s not, if your car fits through the gap, then the caravan fits through the gap.

It’s easy to tow even on a narrow lane, so that’s appealing. But I agree with a lot of what Chris is saying as well. That’s our market. We sell to people that would otherwise buy a camper van. So I think the camper vans and small caravans are really, booming at the moment.

Where as some of the bigger, bigger vehicles and bigger caravans are going a bit out of, a bit more out of fashion. Yeah, certainly in the UK. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: Do you feel like there’s a, more of a crossover because Glamping’s, and I don’t want to talk about Glamping for a long time, Glamping has been more of a established market in the UK than it [00:18:00] is in the United States.

Do you feel like there’s a, more of an opportunity to crossover that type of audience between smaller caravans and glamping than there is because you hear a lot of talk about the people who go glamping will be introduced to camping and then they’re gonna buy a 400, 000 RV, and I’m a little skeptical of that.

Cathy Chamberlain: Yeah, I think glamping tends to be targeted more at families actually, so it’s families with little kids and it saves mum and dad having to put a tent up to be honest, it’s a sort of glorified way of going camping. So there are lots, I’ve just been to a caravan show in Scotland and then we’ve just done the big Birmingham NEC National Exhibition Centre show, so those are two.

Two of the biggest shows of the year in the UK and so many people are coming from tent camping, yeah, to want to buy buy a caravan or a camper van or some buying motorhomes. I think partly It’s the age of our audience, I don’t know if Chris finds the same, but we [00:19:00] call them empty nesters in the UK, so the kids have just left home, they’ve gone to university they’re off the parent’s payroll to an extent then, and it’s their time to just go and, have some fun, so they’re all quite, they’re cool, young, I suppose maybe 50 years ago, a 60 year old was, didn’t feel quite as young as they do now, but people are really wanting to get out there, yeah.

And upgrade, yeah. Then have a few luxuries, get away from tent camping, yeah. But lots of them start there for sure, yeah. 

Brian Searl: Alright, I definitely want to talk about Barefoot Caravans. One last question real quick to close the loop on those shows. How are your shows doing this year, are they? Is traffic down?

Is it up? Just, we’ve talked about that in the States but I haven’t had that perspective 

Cathy Chamberlain: in the UK. Yeah, it the numbers are reasonably high. I’d say they were down about maybe five or ten percent, so not down very significantly. Lots of people there, lots of people sounding very interested.

If you’re interested. Fewer people generally buying though. We just had two really good shows. I think we, we have niche and we are just different and we are selling more than we sold last year. We’re doing fine, but [00:20:00] the bigger caravan companies, people are not buying so much. I think they’re going around looking, maybe like Chris says, they’re looking and trying to identify exactly what it is that they wanted.

And if they can’t see it, they’re not going to buy it at the show. Yeah. So I think sales are down, but footfall is still similar. 

Brian Searl: That’s what, and so that leads me to my next question, and I promise I’m going to get to barefoot, but we’re talking about some interesting things for a second. Is that, are they generally not buying period, or are they just not buying the bigger things?

It sounds like they’re buying what you market. It sounds like, Chris, maybe, is it fair to say they’re still buying what you have, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So I don’t think there’s an overall consumer slowdown, maybe it’s just a hesitation to make a bigger ticket purchase, although you’re not a smaller ticket purchase, but.

Chris Shashaty: Hasn’t the RV industry gone down, like from last year to this year, and numbers it’s 20 percent on, what I just heard that was 20 percent on drivables. 

Erin Ruane: Yeah, I can jump in here and help out a little bit, maybe the stats [00:21:00] absolutely reflect what you all are saying. There was a, 36 percent decline in shipments over the last year, but what was super interesting and I think surprising to some was we saw an uptick starting in December and guess what category it was travel trailers and towables.

Which is super interesting. To your point, Brian, it does seem like there is this resurgence in these units that are, easier to operate more versatile, more affordable and that’s great to see. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. I want to come back to you, Erin, because I kept cutting Cathy off. I got to give her a chance.

Oh, no worries. Cathy, tell us how did, I’m interested, how did Barefoot Caravans get started and why Barefoot Caravan? 

Cathy Chamberlain: Yeah, so we yeah, I wasn’t from the industry at all just love the outdoors. Walking, hiking and music festivals, really. And I had a wet weekend camping, tent camping, and our weather’s quite a lot worse than yours, I think.

So anyway, wet weekend camping. And I just thought, all right, I was sitting in my car actually [00:22:00] with a friend, we’ve got a glass of wine each and I’m looking at the caravans thinking, Oh, that would actually be quite nice. Quite cozy. And so I thought we’re going to see if there’s a cool caravan out there for me to buy myself, but also I thought maybe I’ll sell.

If I can find one, and I realized one didn’t exist I took the big decision to design one and make one myself, yeah. 

Brian Searl: How did you get to the name Barefoot Caravan? 

Cathy Chamberlain: I wanted it to feel, it was a feeling of being, outdoors and free and all of that. And I actually looked back to, I’ve done quite a lot of traveling over time and I thought, what’s one of the coolest feelings I ever had?

And that was being in Australia with the surfers and they were often called barefoot surfers. And I thought, yeah, that was it. That was the feeling. And it has to be that feeling of freedom and, just feeling like you’re just yeah, nothing else really matters. You’re just in the moment.

Yeah, so pick the name years ago But actually it’s turned out to be a good name. I think 

Brian Searl: Yeah, it’s definitely catchy and you’re right. Like it’s something you don’t think about too often anymore But we’re so much inside now You know [00:23:00] versus what we used to be 20 30 years ago. I think maybe that’s stereotypical.

Maybe it’s just my life And I’m inside more because I work too much, but that feeling of the, even the bare foot on the grass when you step outside, it’s just a different you never, you don’t think about it. You don’t realize how different it is until you do it. Yeah, that’s nice. 

Cathy Chamberlain: No, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. 

Brian Searl: What sets you apart? Why are you different than your competitors? 

Cathy Chamberlain: The design of our caravan is very different. I should have had a picture with me, shouldn’t I, to show you. But it’s a, hopefully you can flash one up at some stage, but the yeah, the design of the caravan, it’s a cool, it’s a curved fiberglass caravan.

They’re made in a range of colours, so they’re very customisable as well. And I wanted something that I’d be, that would be easy to tow, but also I’d be proud to kind of park up on my drive. Lots of the caravans we have in the UK, they’re okay when you’re inside, but when you’re outside, they look absolutely, it’s lots of people call them a white box, it’s a white box on your drive.

And the build quality not always great because they, got joins and seams in them and they can leak. We wanted to make something that was Curved and all a [00:24:00] monocoque construction. So all one piece. So it’s a fiberglass body and then it’s all hand fitted inside to a really high standard. So I guess the USP is that is the style and the quality.

Oh, thank you. Thank you, Chris. My computer might 

Brian Searl: crash. We’ll never know. I was hesitant. 

Cathy Chamberlain: Oh, there you go. There’s one of my little barefoot. So that’s somebody. So we sell them. 

Brian Searl: Oh, this is not you? 

Cathy Chamberlain: Yeah, this is us. Yeah. Oh, okay. I thought you said it wasn’t you. Okay, sorry. Go ahead. No, that’s us. No, I’m just saying that’s one of my, one of the caravans.

Yeah no, I’m saying that wasn’t me on the photo. People take them all over, all over Europe, so what the other thing that was really interesting when we built it was that we thought people would use them for long weekends, but they’re actually going off for three months at a time now. We’ve got some people that just picked theirs up in November and they’ve been in Portugal all winter.

We’ve had people living in them for six months at a time. So it’s been nice that yeah, you can see the style on the photos. There are lots of beach photos. That one’s in summer, someone in Samoritz. So we have a lovely owners group, so they share [00:25:00] lots of photos but that’s something else, there’s a photo from one of our owners events.

One thing that is interesting is the community, you’re saying that people are inside a lot, there’s not such a sense of community, and to have an owners group with a real community behind it has been massive for us, yeah. started by one of our owners and we have, big events and they all share that’s at our festival.

Yeah, and it’s just such a, lovely feeling really of all these people with a similar interest all getting together and sharing the joy of something really. Yeah, it’s nice. Lots of dog owners as well. Actually, you can see lots of dogs on these photos. Lots of dog owners as well.

That’s a reason you probably find the same, Chris. Why people, lots of people want to go on holiday in a van or whatever because they can take their dog with them, yeah. Loads of people in lockdown got dogs in the UK. Presumably in America, too. 

Chris Shashaty: Oh, yeah. 

Brian Searl: Something to be said here, I think, for CW Unique Design, but from a brand awareness perspective that drives a culture and a gathering like this, right?

[00:26:00] How did that get built over time? Did it naturally happen? Did you try to drive it? Did you 

Cathy Chamberlain: No, it naturally happened, actually, because when you set up a new company and you’ve not been in the industry, nothing’s off limits, really, so people told us, oh, that’ll never work, whatever, and I just ignored everyone.

There’s some of our team back at base. Yeah, but no, so we’ve just done it our own way, which has been really nice. Yeah, so one of our owners set up the owners group on Facebook, and then I thought, oh, it’d be nice to get everyone together. And the first time we did it, I didn’t have a clue what it would be like.

And it was, there were just such similar people. I think that was the thing, and they all loved it. Yeah, so we now hold an annual event, and we’ve got it’s not huge like the big RV companies, but we’ve got 50 barefoot caravans coming up in a field in April. With an event, with the launch of a new product for a magazine, we’re often approached about things.

Can we, do a special design for a magazine? So there’s something really big happening for us, which is currently top secret. But, yeah, so lots of it is driven by people approaching us, and then we [00:27:00] pick and choose. Yeah, that’s a good idea. No, that one’s not. But my business partner, Ben, is a really cool guy.

We’re not, obviously we’ve got to make some money, but it’s not all been about being driven by profit or anything. We just wanted to create something. That people would really enjoy, and that we really enjoy, and I think that shines through actually, and that’s how the customers feel about it too. 

Brian Searl: I want to encourage you to go ahead and share your secret, it’s just us four here, we won’t tell anyone.

Erin Ruane: We won’t tell. 

Susan Carpenter: Yeah, those are very unique. I love that one piece. I love the colors. 

Cathy Chamberlain: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so that’s, we have a range of six colors at the moment, but then someone just wanted a lilac one the other week, someone’s had a yellow one. So with the fiberglass, we can do whatever people want, really.

Yeah, that’s fun. And the other thing that we have got is increasing numbers of women buying the barefoot caravans. So I think there’s about seven or eight coming to the owners event in [00:28:00] April, and they’re getting to know one another and meeting up and they meet up. Social media has been good for this.

Lots of Facebook groups where people are saying, they’re going to meet up at such and such a site or whatever. And it’s giving women on their own just confidence to go out there and have fun and, yeah. We’ve got a big thing on cold water swimming at the moment in the UK. Do you have that as well?

Probably not so cold where you are, is it? They’re jumping into icy water in the UK. 

Chris Shashaty: We’ve got ice caps. 

Brian Searl: I used to do that. I used to work at a TV station and it’s Shtick was he would whatever, run into the Lake Erie or whatever. Yeah. 

Susan Carpenter: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. What do they call it? Like bear run or something like that?

Brian Searl: Like lot of that with the health stuff. Plunge tubs, cold plunge tubs, but not . 

Susan Carpenter: Yes, I know somebody doing that. Crazy. But it’s, they, we used call it in Buffalo, the polar bear splash or something like that. The polar bear wrench where you’d literally jump into Lake Erie like in January. Oh yeah. I watched like reset.

Brian Searl: I did it in Iceland, I was in Iceland in September, [00:29:00] and like it wasn’t a plunge, like it was nice September in Iceland but they have that, I don’t know if any of you have ever been, but they have a really nice hot spring place that’s brand new by the ocean, a little bit up above Reykjavik to the right, and then, so like the ocean is right next to one of the many hot pools, so you just walk into the ocean, it’s 15 Celsius. It’s not freezing, but it’s not warm either in open water. But anyway, After, 

Chris Shashaty: After a few whiskeys, you can really swim in anything. 

Brian Searl: And they did have a swim up bar. So talk to us about your expansion to the U. S. 

Cathy Chamberlain: Yeah. Yeah. So when we launched Barefoot in the UK we obviously set up a website and I’ve had thousands of inquiries from the U.

1. Which really surprised me, so started off thinking there’s no way we can do that, we’re a small British company, we’re going to stick with what we’re doing in the UK and maybe a bit of Europe. And then the inquiries got so, so vast, it seemed ridiculous not to do something. We looked at shipping over, but obviously [00:30:00] the cost of shipping and insurance was really high for shipping to North America.

For some reason, all of our insurers are terrified of North America. We couldn’t ship anywhere in the world apart from North America, unfortunately. But also it made sense to put the door on the other side and so on. So for a while, I’d been looking for a manufacturer in America, didn’t really find the right fit.

And then we were on I was on BBC World News they did a feature on barefoot caravans and how caravans might be becoming cool or whatever. And I was approached through that from somebody called Bruce, who used to be the R& D Director at Airstream. And I thought, okay, this is interesting now. And he suggested New Camp, who were relatively new actually.

They were manufacturing the teardrop trailers, the tabs, the tags and they do truck campers as well now. So he introduced us and we got on really well. They’re an Amish company really high quality, really trustworthy, just lovely people. 

Brian Searl: They’ve been on our show before. 

Chris Shashaty: They’re really cool campers.[00:31:00] 

Cathy Chamberlain: Yeah, they are, and they really care about the quality so they seemed like a great fit, yeah we spoke to them, gosh, it was in, it was about 2018, we brought a barefoot over to one of the Elkhart shows, the the dealer show, the September dealer show and they wanted to show it to their dealers to see what they thought, and they all loved it, so then we agreed that they were going to build them over there Which got going and then obviously there was a bit of a delay with COVID, so it was eventually launched just over a year ago.

Yeah, and they manufacture them to American standards, obviously, and with the door on your side, with the air conditioning. The built in wastewater tanks. There’s a few things that your market demand that we don’t, obviously don’t have to do in the UK. So the fit of the bill yeah, and it’s been, yeah, it’s going well.

It’s really good. Really cool to see it over there. It’s amazing for us. 

Chris Shashaty: Do you share, do you, I’m sorry, I would say, do you share a spot with with New Camp at shows? Because I feel like I saw New Camp. And your product at Hershey. Do you ever 

Cathy Chamberlain: Yeah, no, [00:32:00] that would be the new Camp Barefoot, yeah. So they do all the shows.

Ben and I, business partner, have come over to a couple of shows. We’re at the Florida show in January. They were launching the new color there. They’ve launched a new pearl pink, particularly because there’s so many women interested in buying them. But yeah, we they bring them along with their, as part of their fleet, basically.

Yeah, it’s one of their products. So it’s got a full production line dedicated to Barefoot now in the factory. 

Brian Searl: That’s awesome. All right, let’s go to Erin. We’ve been making her sit there long enough and she only has to speak one time. 

Erin Ruane: I’m enjoying it. I’m enjoying it. 

Brian Searl: So Erin for those who haven’t heard of RV trading, perhaps have been living in a closet.

Not that there’s nothing wrong with living in a closet. Perhaps like some closets, like there’s a, like my grandma has a closet that’s bigger than the teardrops. 

Erin Ruane: As long as it has internet access, we’re there. Yeah, Wi Fi can go anywhere. Yeah, and RV Trader, believe it or not, we’ve been around and servicing this industry for some 30 odd [00:33:00] years which is really hard to believe and got our start in the print publishing, business with the newsprint magazines and went through digital transformation and and did that really successfully.

And what’s great about the site is for folks who are, professional RVers, to folks who are just getting started, it’s a wonderful site to use because we have new and used units, we have Class A, B, C, we have campers and trailers over 200, 000 units for sale at any given time, so one of the things that our consumers say that they love about the site is just that wide variety.

We have easy to use features like a picture search, right? So again, if I’m just dipping my toe into this industry and wondering if this is the lifestyle for me, I can just do a simple search based on a picture. Hey, this looks this is something that I’ve seen on the road that I’m interested in, or what have you, and really educate myself.

Really for consumers, we allow a great experience for folks who are interested in [00:34:00] buying because they can see all of the inventory, they can directly connect with dealers, they can check, estimated payment amounts, they can get insurance quotes. Browse financing options. So lots of really great tools for them.

And then for folks who are interested in selling their RV, we allow folks to place their ad on our marketplace as well, which again, helps to get that listing in front of, 6. 9 million visitors on a monthly basis, which is really helpful. And then finally, we have a really, comprehensive blog too.

Again, consumers who maybe are already in the lifestyle, really enjoy reading up about, new places to visit or new things to do or folks who are entertaining, this as a lifestyle and something to try on can really educate themselves and learn and have a little fun too.

Really something for everybody from a consumer perspective and then. From the dealer perspective, we work with thousands of dealers to allow them to place their inventory on the site. To, again, [00:35:00] attract the right the right buyer for their units and to be able to directly connect with those buyers.

They do that through listing their inventory, through enhancing their inventory with us through some special marketing services that we offer. And it really allows them to generate those valuable customer connections and really maximize their profits. Yeah, that’s who RV Trader is in a nutshell.

Brian Searl: So it says in my notes here, you’re going to share your insights on the current state of the RV industry, which I will let you do open endedly in a second. But my first question related to that is, how have some of these RV rental companies impacted RV trader, or have they not? 

Erin Ruane: I would say yes and no.

I think you’re either a renter or you’re a buyer. You’re typically not both. So that’s been good in that we, can carve out partnerships with rental companies, for example, but we don’t see ourselves competing. No, it’s a wonderful industry. It’s a big industry. And I think there’s room for [00:36:00] everyone.

And in fact, my husband and I and our two daughters rented, we’re talking earlier about Class A’s and just how huge they are. rented a Class a few years ago, and boy, we did not know what we were getting ourselves into. Backed over a grill on a campground. You really have to be bold to do this.

I, like I said, I think it’s a really wide industry and there’s room for everybody. So it hasn’t really impacted us to any extent. 

Brian Searl: Do you feel like, and this is maybe pure speculation on my part for now, I don’t really have any data points to back this up, but do you feel like if we continue into economic uncertainty, which seems to be Changing opinions every single day, depending on what news network you watch, but assuming we do you feel like there will be more renters temporarily who choose to rent and then buy later when perhaps interest rates come down? Or do you see that not, it’s just speculation on my part, but 

Erin Ruane: total speculation, none of us has a crystal ball, right?

But I’ll tell you what [00:37:00] we are seeing and our position in the industry gives us this unique lens. Because, We are in the market, right? We take a look at Google search trends, for example, and are people interested in these search terms? Is that, increasing?

Is it declining? And what we’re seeing just from mid February to today, so the last two weeks, is we’re seeing, an increase in searches. And some of that is seasonal, absolutely, as we come into sort of the high season. But it’s a much steeper incline, or let me say a much steeper increase in consumer interest and consumer intent than it has been, let’s say, last year.

We see that as an encouraging sign. The other thing that we’re seeing, and again, none of us has a crystal ball, is that we are anticipating that interest rates will improve towards the back half of this year. And so we recently conducted a consumer survey and it was interesting to see. What folks told us much [00:38:00] to the earlier points that we made, folks are still very interested, foot traffic at consumer RV shows has been incredible in the U.

1. It sounds like in the U. K. it’s been very strong as well. So people are still very interested in this lifestyle. They’re interested in buying. Obviously, the cost of money is very high in the U. S. right now. Based on the consumer survey that we conducted about a month or so ago, what that means is not that they’re getting on the sidelines necessarily, but they might just be reducing their budget.

Or they might just be, buying something that is a little smaller. Or that is not as as pricey. But the interest is still there. Again, as we see, through Google search trends, as we see through this consumer survey. And then also, folks who are in our business, Because of what COVID did we’re all trying to find what this new normal is going to be.

And so a lot of times what we have to do is compare what we’re seeing not to 23, not to 22, not to 21, not to 20, but [00:39:00] to 2019, right? And so what we see is that our visits are well above 2019 levels. Our leads that we’re producing for dealers are well above 2019 levels. And so again, we are optimistic, maybe cautiously optimistic, but definitely optimistic.

So Brian we’ll connect again at the end of the year and see, which one of us was right on, on the future here. But we’re optimistic based on what we’re 

Brian Searl: seeing. Yeah. I don’t think anybody, I don’t not anybody. Everyone’s going to stop buying. I just wonder if there might be a little bit of a pause or a breather, and so we’ll see how that turns out.

I don’t really think the strength is going to go down though at the end of the year. I think that’s wishful thinking. We’ll see. I hope on that one. 

Susan Carpenter: And true to what Erin is saying is that we’re seeing the same trends with us. We’re running pretty much right there with 2019 numbers on manufacturing and units sold And in our, when I work for, when I’m in my paying job, B& B molders, [00:40:00] we supply the OEs with injection molded plastics and stuff like that.

And our numbers are streaming right there at 2019. At 2019, we’re all happy with that, right? Until that phenomenon of COVID hit and then we all got, that and happy. 

Brian Searl: We’re in the industry, right? We’re happy with that in the industry, but how do you sell that to the stock market? That is never going to, how do you sell that? That’s the hard part, right? 

Susan Carpenter: That’s the thing, they’ve seen those big numbers and they’re like, why aren’t you doing that anymore? Exactly. Where it’s, it wasn’t sustainable. There’s no way you could have sustained that. The way we’re going and how that all happened. We proved it by just supplier chain issues and all the other issues that came with it.

I’m happy with 2019 numbers. I was happy then, I’m going to be happy now. And it seems to be more of a controlled, better, things are being made better again. The supply chains are better. 

Erin Ruane: This rebalancing of supply and demand that that the [00:41:00] industry has been going through it, it’s certainly been challenging and to your point, Susan.

Our dealers that we work with, of course, had record years. And they look to advertising partners like us to say, Hey, let’s keep this going. And the fact of the matter is that would be wonderful for everyone, but, if the demand isn’t there, the demand isn’t there.

But hopefully we’re still doing a very effective job of helping dealers find buyers in this marketplace. And and that’s very helpful to them. We’ll continue to do that. 

Chris Shashaty: Can I ask a question? All right. 

Brian Searl: No, not allowed. 

Chris Shashaty: I’m asking a question right now. Okay. So I have a good question, especially from the perspective of being a builder.

So what I’ve realized, what I’ve seen in, since we started this, or my company started in 2020, was there, the market of just van builders in general was less then, and there was way more opportunity on outlets like RV Trader to sell our products on there. And what I’ve learned from [00:42:00] coming in the RV industry and to doing what I do now is RV Trader is a great place as To be a placeholder for something that isn’t for sale.

If I had an RV, if I’m a dealer and I have a hundred RVs that I’m selling and 99 of those RVs are inbound, but aren’t sold, I would go and I would put it on RV trailer trader as a sale. And so you’re misinforming the customer and the idea that they’re going to buy something.

So that they come to you and they sit in your seat and then you sell them something. So what I realized in my three and a half years of doing this, as a small company, selling my products on your page has gotten way more difficult. And I’m curious if that’s because the dealers are now working out some other sort of Deal with you guys on how they’re selling or there’s less opportunity for Someone like myself to if I put [00:43:00] a van up for sale on RV trader I’m not I used to I mean our entire beginning of our business was pretty much funded from RV trader. We had done so much business on RV Trader, but now if I put my money into RV Trader, I don’t necessarily get that back.

And it’s a way harder challenge. Is there anything in the pipeline that you’re seeing that you guys, initiative wise, to do to help boost a smaller company like myself and my product out in the world, or is marketing? Yeah, more like That was a 

controversial segment of the show, for that.

Erin Ruane: No that’s really Real life questions. Yeah, no, that’s really interesting. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, 

Erin Ruane: we should connect offline so that I can understand a little bit more about your specific situation. Because I imagine that before when you were using the site, you were using as you were using it as a private seller because you don’t go consumer direct.

So no, there hasn’t been anything that has changed in the business model or anything that would [00:44:00] have impacted. Your ability to sell versus a dealer’s ability to sell either positively or negatively. So that’s interesting. I wonder if it has anything to do with, I don’t know, location of the units or I don’t know.

We’d have to, we’d have to have that chat offline so that I could understand a little bit more about what you were seeing and what you’re seeing now. And see if we can, get you back and get you performing again. 

Chris Shashaty: Definitely. 

Susan Carpenter: I have a question for you, Erin. There was a lot of speculation.

Brian Searl: Hold on. Are you going to ask something controversial, too? Just so we can be clear? 

Susan Carpenter: No, I promise it’s not. It’s not. 

Erin Ruane: All good. 

Brian Searl: I’m just messing with you, by the way. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. 

Susan Carpenter: No, there’s not. 

Chris Shashaty: Hey, listen. Challenging conversations are sometimes the hardest conversations, but it’s clarity, right?

Erin Ruane: That’s conversations. 

Chris Shashaty: Yeah, nothing wrong with it. 

Susan Carpenter: Nope, not at all. So there was a lot of speculation, of a lot of new, because of COVID, there was a lot of new owners out there [00:45:00] that maybe went out and experienced that camping wasn’t for them after all, but they used it during COVID. Do you see a pretty significant uptick in the used market based on that compared to pre COVID?

Erin Ruane: Yeah, it depends on region. So yes, in some regions we do. And we, have seen an uptick in private sellers in some regions. In some regions we haven’t. We serve a very large marketplace, obviously. So that’s been interesting to watch. But I would say, not overall, but yeah in certain geographies, absolutely.

Chris Shashaty: Do you have a scale of what the average buyer, I’m sure you do, of what the average buyer’s price tag is for a unit on RV Trader? Like for a, say, a class BRV, is there a general number of what you see mainly? 

Erin Ruane: Yeah, so I don’t know that number off the top of my head, but certainly, we take a look at all of our first party data [00:46:00] along those lines to understand, what people are searching for, what the most popular units are.

What what’s growing in popularity, what’s lessening in popularity, et cetera. So yeah we mine, all of that first party data for those nuggets. And we, produce white papers for the industry, white papers for dealers and manufacturers so that, they know what we’re seeing.

And again, like I mentioned earlier, consumer surveying is a really big part of what we do too. We’re able to assemble this really big audience and to ask them questions, that maybe specific dealers or manufacturers wouldn’t be able to ask. So again, I, let’s connect offline and be happy to get you some of that information.

Brian Searl: Sure. I’m interested too about that data that you’re talking about. It was in the back of my mind to ask you, I just didn’t have a good opportunity to right now. But how does the, how does some of that data that is unique to RV Trader that really only such a large website can collect, right? How does that benefit what you’re talking about specifically?

Manufacturers, dealers, 

Erin Ruane: industry? Greatly. Because like I said, we, I don’t [00:47:00] say this in a way to sound braggadocious, but we, in many ways, we are the market, right? Because our reach is so large. What we see is oftentimes a leading indicator of what’s getting ready to happen, right?

So if we see, an increase in leads, if we see an increase in searches being done, whether it’s across the site, whether it’s in certain geographies, whether it’s with certain classes oftentimes that can be quite predictive of, not only consumer behavior, but consumer intent. And yeah, we will absolutely partner with, our customers and make them aware of that and give them that knowledge and that know how to help power their business.

We very much look at those dealer relationships as partnerships, and that’s part of it as well. It’s not just hopefully it’s not just a vendor relationship, it’s more of a partner relationship. You bet. 

Brian Searl: I know you’ve touched on some of them already, but are there any trends you’d like to share that you feel are Something to pay attention to in the coming months or year.

Erin Ruane: Yeah. We talked about the, this [00:48:00] shipment and manufacturing the supply and demand and as Susan said, I was, we’re all really seeking to find and establish that new normal. We talked a little bit about the increase in December and interest and in shipments for those smaller the towables.

And and so I think that is, is a trend that we’ve got our eye on. What does that mean for us? What does that mean for our dealer partners, our manufacturer partners? So that’s been really good to see. And then, again, we’re encouraged by what we’re seeing from a consumer behavior perspective.

Again, both on Google and on our sites there seems to be an increase in interest. There seems to be an increase in intent. And again, like Susan, we were also very happy with our 2019 numbers as well. And so to be right there and and in many cases, outperforming our 2019 numbers, depending on the metric that you’re looking at we’re happy with those trends that we’re seeing.

So I think I think those are the big ones. [00:49:00] 

Brian Searl: Alright, does anybody have anything important before I ask Erin a curveball question? 

Erin Ruane: I guess the curveball question isn’t important. 

Brian Searl: It’s not really because it’s diverting from everything we’re talking about, but it’s just something that interests me. No? 

Chris Shashaty: Has the trend been the, are you seeing do you watch a fluctuation of how money is spent within the website? From 2019 to 2020? As COVID has come, because obviously the market was so much grander in those times because the, obviously they’re selling so many RVs at that point.

Was there, is there, do you see any overall sale? Are you seeing more of? Like people are people going towards more of travel trailers because of the cost of the travel trailer or for the need of the customer? 

Erin Ruane: I think both. Yeah, I think the versatility and the ease of ownership and the ease of use is a really big [00:50:00] draw and again speculating a little bit but I think that matches what, what you, Chris, and what you, Kathy have seen as well.

And it’s this uptick and interest in the types of units that you build. Not only are they cool and and customizable, but they’re easier to own. They’re easier to operate. And again, as Susan mentioned, we also are seeing more women come into, the industry and they want, those are things that are important to them.

So yeah, and in, in terms of the dollars that you’re referring to, I don’t know if you mean the revenue that we derive from dealers or do you mean the units that are being 

Chris Shashaty: sold? I’m saying the units that are really just being sold in my mind, because I’m just thinking like. The cost of goods has changed a lot in price from when I first built a van in 2019.

To now, the cost of my goods have gone up significantly, and that could be the reason why there’s less action on the website, because when I started in [00:51:00] 2019 2020, my cost of my product was significantly less on RV Trader. So I was just curious if you see if overall products have gone up in the price range, and The customer is, could be more directed towards certain products and other products, or you’re seeing more, pre owns or are being, there’s just more on the market.

Erin Ruane: Yeah. And again, I think, yeah, no, I think there’s not a easy blanket answer for that. But I will say that, used units have even increased in pricing. I think RVIA reported some 4 percent increase, in 2023 used. Units as well, so it’s not just your costs going into building something new, but it’s also unused units.

So I just think that it is more competitive in general from a pricing perspective. 

Cathy Chamberlain: Can I just very, I know we’re running out of time, can I very quickly throw one thing in with the increase in small travel trailers? Certainly what we’re finding in the UK, and I guess it must be the same in America, is the people with [00:52:00] electric cars thinking about what they can tow.

And that’s, I think that’s having quite a significant impact on the industry. Certainly that’s why people aren’t buying big caravans now in the UK, because we’ve got legislation coming down the line that we’re all going to be driving electric vehicles in the next few years. Is it the same in America?

There seems to be a bit of a trend on both sides. 

Susan Carpenter: Yeah, definitely. And there’s a lot of manufacturers out there that are going in that direction, even trying to tell, or they’re motorized as going EV. There’s definitely the trend that way, and I think you’re absolutely right.

Brian Searl: Alright, Microphone question now? I get to ask that? 

Susan Carpenter: Yeah, I’m dying to know. 

Brian Searl: It’s fine, I’m not even going to be good. Alright, so anyway, so Erin, it’s fair to say that you’re a very marketing and data driven person within your organization, yes? And so your focus is to always be, I’m not going to give you like a terrible question.

It’s not controversial. I promise, but so I do this all the time, Chris, you’ll see, I pick on [00:53:00] somebody, you’re just the guy. But and you can pick on me back by the way, but so as we look forward to trends and seeing things in the future. From a how are things going to shake out with consumer behavior standpoint, is RV Trader or does RV Trader, or even the RV industry if you want to take it down that path, need to be paying attention to what is happening with AI and chat GPT and how consumers are searching for things in different ways?

Erin Ruane: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And one of the ways that we are learning and testing is through, not only writing copy, let’s say listing copy, blog copy, et cetera through AI. Obviously we always want to run that by some human eyes as well. But also using AI to help us predict.

Search activity, right? Based on, hey if we know X amount of data about a [00:54:00] consumer. How can that help us understand what page to land them on our site or what they might be looking for example. So there’s all sorts of tests going on around, around that. And I think, obviously dealers operate websites as well, right?

And everyone within the industry could benefit from in particular better descriptions of these units. More intelligently written, descriptions, more comprehensive descriptions. So those are only, two of the ways that I think AI can really benefit the industry. There are, I’m sure, a whole host more.

So yeah, that’s not so much of a curveball. I think everybody’s thinking about it and leaning into it and doing some experimentation and figuring it out, which is good. 

Brian Searl: Do you have two minutes? Can I ask a follow up or do you have to go? No, I’m good. And anybody else who wants to jump off, please, I know we’re a minute over, but, so I guess my question was more along the lines of if a [00:55:00] consumer.

We talk about this in the campground work, right? We do, my company does marketing for 450 campgrounds and RV parks in North America. And so we’re very concerned about the search behavior of, if someone can go to Bing Chat or Google SGE and say, find me a campground that’s one mile off the highway that’s great for my kids, that whatever, and it gives them three answers, or two answers, or an answer, and there’s no more one to ten.

Does, how does that impact the behavior of the consumer specifically related to RV purchasing or renting or that’s what kind of I was getting at does RV trader adapt to that because And I don’t know RV trader like any like you do or even the other people that’s called you right obviously because I’m from the campground side But it feels to me like RV trader and the sort of features and functions specifically not your company But the features the check boxes the filtering was created as a result of Google sucking the experience of actual searching, right?

If the AI can actually generate an appropriate answer, how does [00:56:00] RV Trader adapt to that world where you don’t need all those checkboxes? 

Erin Ruane: Yeah, it’s super interesting and something that we’re eyeing closely. We’ve been lucky and blessed to be a part of some early versions of this technology with Google so that we can understand and predict, the impact that it’s going to have on us.

And so far, so good. What doesn’t ever change with Google is that, they’re in business to provide the best consumer experience and the best consumer experience is helping you, the consumer, find exactly what you’re looking for based on your search. And so we are, regardless of that technology, we are the number one resource, because we have. The most listings. We have highly relevant pages. Our pages SEO very well. So our scores are quite high. And so it it’s good business for Google to send consumers to us. And and it’s something that we’re watching very closely. Like I said, early test results are [00:57:00] positive, so we’re encouraged.

But yeah, a lot of traffic comes from Google. And so it’s something that we need to keep our eye on. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, I don’t think I’m questioning the future of RV Trader. I’m just saying what if the behavior is different? What if there’s an API that they access RV Trader through and you guys get paid for that way, right?

If Google returns an exact list and all that. I don’t know. It’s just an interesting future, I think. 

Erin Ruane: Yeah, absolutely. You bet. 

Brian Searl: All right. Does anybody have any final thoughts before we end the show? 

Susan Carpenter: Great show, as usual. 

Cathy Chamberlain: It’s been nice to meet you all. Yeah, we’re not yeah, not often part of something in the U. S., apart from our physical visits, so it’s been really nice to join you. Thank you. 

Erin Ruane: Yeah. Chris, hit me up and we’ll talk, Chris. 

Chris Shashaty: Yeah, absolutely. I’d love to. 

Brian Searl: MC Fireside Chats, really appreciate you. We’ll see you next week for our I won’t see you next week. I’m going to be off. We’ll have a guest host, Mike Harrison from Sierra Hospitality. I’m going to be on vacation, but I’ll see you in two weeks. Take care, guys. I really appreciate you all being here. 

Susan Carpenter: Thank you all. 

Chris Shashaty: Thank you. 

Thanks [00:58:00] for joining us for this episode of MC Fireside Chats with your host, Brian Searl. Have a suggestion for a show idea? Want your campground or company in a future episode?

Email us at hello at moderncampground. com. Get your daily dose of news from moderncampground. com. And be sure to join us next week for more insights into the fascinating world of outdoor hospitality.