MC Fireside Chats – December 4th, 2024

Episode Summary

The December 4, 2024, episode of MC Fireside Chats explored the challenges and opportunities facing the outdoor hospitality industry as it prepares for 2025. Hosted by Brian Searl, the episode featured insights from Scott Bahr, Sandy Ellingson, and Mike Harrison, who collectively emphasized the importance of adapting to shifting consumer behaviors and market conditions. The conversation highlighted key trends, including the decline of traditional camping formats and the growing popularity of alternatives such as glamping and car camping. These shifts underscore the need for campground operators to rethink their strategies and embrace innovation. Scott Bahr opened the discussion with a deep dive into the data, revealing a consistent decline in traditional RVing and camping interest over the past two years. While some markets remain stable, the overall outlook for 2025 suggests a continued downturn. Bahr highlighted how economic factors such as inflation and interest rates, combined with an oversupply of parks, have amplified the challenges. He urged park owners to analyze consumer trends closely and adapt their offerings to align with changing preferences. Mike Harrison provided additional insights into the economic pressures facing the industry. He pointed out that developers and operators who overpaid for properties during the pandemic-driven boom are now grappling with underperformance. Harrison stressed the importance of realism and adaptability, particularly for operators looking to succeed in a more competitive and cost-conscious environment. He advocated for a focus on long-term stays and building partnerships with niche markets, such as traveling professionals and seasonal workers, to ensure stable revenue streams. The conversation also explored how marketing practices must evolve. Harrison and Searl both emphasized the need to leverage technology, including AI, SEO, and social media, to reach broader audiences. However, they noted that traditional strategies, such as Google Ads, are losing relevance as consumer behavior shifts toward more sophisticated, AI-driven search tools. Searl warned that operators must prepare for a rapidly changing digital landscape where visibility will depend on enhanced online presence and targeted messaging. Sandy Ellingson highlighted the need for inclusivity and accessibility in the industry. She stressed that attracting younger generations and first-time campers requires rethinking the entry points into outdoor hospitality. Ellingson pointed out that many parks have eliminated tent camping in favor of higher-revenue RV sites, which may exclude potential new campers. She encouraged operators to embrace emerging trends like car camping and package experiences to draw in diverse demographics, particularly Gen Z, who seek authentic and community-oriented experiences. Another key theme was the role of technology in driving efficiency and enhancing guest experiences. Ellingson noted that while larger resorts are already utilizing advanced tools, smaller mom-and-pop parks lag behind. She urged operators to invest in solutions that streamline operations, improve booking processes, and create memorable guest experiences. These innovations, she argued, are crucial for staying competitive in an increasingly sophisticated market. The group also addressed the need for campground operators to focus on experiential offerings. As consumers prioritize experiences over traditional camping, operators must create multifaceted revenue streams. Examples included food and beverage services, guided outdoor activities, and immersive amenities that add value to a guest’s stay. This shift could also help parks generate loyalty, as guests are more likely to return when they feel they are receiving a comprehensive experience. Bahr and Harrison acknowledged the resistance to change among some operators, particularly smaller park owners. This reluctance to adopt modern practices, such as embracing alternative camping styles or implementing dynamic pricing, could hinder long-term success. They all agreed that education and collaboration across the industry are necessary to bridge this gap and help operators understand the benefits of innovation. The episode concluded with a forward-looking discussion on the transformative potential of AI in the industry. Searl predicted that AI would redefine how guests discover and book outdoor experiences, enabling smarter decision-making and more efficient operations. However, he also cautioned that operators who fail to adapt quickly risk falling behind in a fast-moving market. Ultimately, the episode served as a call to action for the outdoor hospitality industry. They encouraged operators to approach 2025 with a mindset of flexibility and innovation, leveraging data and technology to meet evolving consumer needs. By doing so, they can position themselves not just to survive but to thrive in a rapidly changing market.

Recurring Guests

Mike Harrison

Chief Operating Officer

CRR Hospitality

Sandy Ellingson

RV Industry Advisory

Scott Bahr

President

Cairn Consulting Group

Special Guests

Episode Transcript

This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show featuring conversations with thought leaders, entrepreneurs and outdoor hospitality experts who share their insights to help your business succeed.

Hosted by Brian Searl, the founder and CEO of Insider Perks, empowered by insights from Modern Campgrounds, the most innovative news source in the industry.

Brian Searl

00:00:59.785 – 00:01:12.737

Welcome everybody, to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks slash Modern Campground.

You know what I was realizing while the show was playing, the intro was playing Scott and Sandy and Mike, who? Maybe Mike’s here and maybe

Mike Harrison

00:01:12.801 – 00:01:14.325

I’m here. Ish.

Brian Searl

00:01:17.105 – 00:01:20.369

I was about to be sarcastic and say, Mike looks better today, but

Mike Harrison

00:01:20.417 – 00:01:21.165

thank you.

Brian Searl

00:01:22.505 – 00:03:26.675

What I was realizing while the show was playing is that now I lost my train of thought. Now I’m trying to think of what I was thinking now.

It’ll come to me later. It was, it was actually quite witty for me because I’m not normally witty.

Anyway, super excited to be here for another outdoor hospitality industry focus episode. You know, I think this is the last one that we’re all going to be together in this kind of format, right?

We’re doing like, this is kind of our open discussion.

I don’t know that we’ve actually outlayed this publicly, but we’re going to revamp some of the shows in 2025 and just do like still weekly, still Wednesday, still same format, right? I’m going to have a co-host who shall be named later. So that’s going to be fun.

We’re going to do like a little Joe Rogan type stuff where we’re going to just kind of start the show and then have our guests. And then if you guys want to stay and talk, we’re going to stay and talk.

And if we have something interesting to talk about, we’re just going to talk about however long we want to talk about it for. And so that’ll be fun for all the people except the ones who are waiting on email responses from me.

But, you know, I think, I think we could just do a lot of different stuff here. So I think we’re going to. I can’t remember what the weeks are. Sharah is going to kick me for not remembering it.

But like, the first one is data, trends and insights. We’re always going to talk about something to do with data and trends and our reports or what Scott’s seeing or the industry.

And we’ll have, I think Phil and Grassi is going to be on here from RVDA and Eleanor Hamm from RVDF Canada. And so we’re going to have like the stats people. Right.

Plugged into that kind of conversation and I don’t remember what the other ones are but they’re probably just as good at some point. I mean they’re not as good without Scott Bahr but one can hope so.

Yeah, I think, I think we want to spend today though and I talked about this with Scott. Maybe I didn’t probably should have looped you and Mike into the discussion and maybe Casey Cocker.

No Jonas, he said he was on his way back to the office. Last show of the year for this group. Right.

I think we have an opportunity here to talk about what 2025 is going to bring from a data perspective like what we are. What would you put a percentage on it Scott? 92% sure is going to happen.

Scott Bahr

00:03:27.495 – 00:03:29.039

I would say so yeah.

Brian Searl

00:03:29.207 – 00:03:30.675

We’re just making up random.

Scott Bahr

00:03:31.015 – 00:03:32.423

I’m going to go with it, I’m going to go with it.

Brian Searl

00:03:32.439 – 00:04:05.545

But high. Right.

We have a lot of data over this stuff and so we’re going to strip away the fluff and we’re going to give you some strong educated opinions from my side, some strong factual data from Scott’s side. We’ll find out where Mike weighs in on this whole subject. He’s usually the voice of reason and then Sandy will be are like everything is wonderful.

What are you talking about person? So anyway let’s like Scott, I told you I was gonna have you start here.

So just kind of give us like set the ground stage for us about why we need to have this conversation.

Scott Bahr

00:04:06.405 – 00:06:41.925

The, the primary reason is that over the past couple years now, you know, year and a half at least we’ve, we’ve seen some, some I’ll call it attrition within the industry whether it’s the RV industry or camping, outdoor hospitality. I won’t include all about our hospitality because not all of it is down but the kind of the base when you look at the market Overall it’s down.

RVing is down. RV retail sales are down.

We’re, we’ve seen, excuse me, a two year trend and what we’ve been doing is you know we on occasion we’ll hear some naysaying that it really isn’t but really you know and there’s pockets here and there.

But the bottom line is overall across the country, you know and unless you’re living in like one of the hot spots which be like Yellowstone hotspots that you’re probably down a little bit maybe a lot and there’s a lot of factors contributing to that and what we’ve been Doing recently, over the last few months is kind of immersing ourselves in all this information that we have. We’ve been gathering it, we’ve been compiling it, we’ve been trying to paint a bigger picture about what we see has happened.

But more importantly, what everyone wants to know, what’s going to happen and what’s the look ahead. And our kind of right now, again, depends on the sector you’re in.

But overall, the industry by global kind of, you know, overriding summary is that we’re probably going to look at another year of being down that things, things are trending in a direction that’s not favorable. And you know, I’ll look ahead to 2025 is like, you know, maybe we ought to buckle up a little bit. Maybe we have to.

But overall, people need to really reconsider where they’re at, what they’re doing, what their practices are, because doing the same things.

And I think, you know, that if, you know, again, we’re going to probably get into the negative today, but the, the positive part of it is, is that there’s opportunity.

But as whatever role you have within this industry, you’re going to need to look at things differently from a different perspective because again, the same practices, the same approaches in 2025 is probably not going to work.

Brian Searl

00:06:42.305 – 00:06:51.905

Yeah, but the positivity comes from like being willing to step outside your box and learn how to do things differently, whether you’re an RV or campground owner or association or whatever you are. Right,

Scott Bahr

00:06:52.065 – 00:06:52.817

Correct.

Brian Searl

00:06:53.001 – 00:08:04.907

But it’s not asking you that question where like, again, I don’t think that any of us in this call is worried about the overall health of the entire industry as an aggregate that people are going to. That’s an interesting echo Mike just left. So hopefully we’ll get him back. Overall, the health of the industry as a whole. Right.

But like, the amount of price increases, the amount of changes, the amount of new builds and developments and people coming in and acquiring parks at what arguably were probably higher rates than they should have. You know, all that stuff is like, there’s not going to be enough people to fill all those parks is the answer.

The industry, generally speaking, is going to be fine.

But so let’s get, let’s get some of these rebuttal questions out of the way first because we’re going to dive into this for the people who are watching. Right. And maybe we’ll go longer, maybe we won’t. Like, whoever needs to jump off can, you know. But I think this is an important conversation to have.

But let’s get the rebuttals out of the way first. Because the common one I hear is, well, so what? We’re still up over 2019. Well, cool.

But, like, were you doing any marketing in 2019? Like, were you thinking about, like, what’s actually happening in the economy in 2019? Like, it was a different animal. Right.

I mean, that and then the shipments being up and all the other things. So talk about that, Scott.

Scott Bahr

00:08:05.091 – 00:08:15.115

Well, for one, one rebuttal I’ll have for you right now, is that in again, depends on where you’re at. We’re not all above 2019. So.

Brian Searl

00:08:15.155 – 00:08:21.959

Yes, that’s. That’s true. That’s true. So you’re not supposed to rebut me. We’re rebutting the other people. I’m just playing the devil’s advocate.

Scott Bahr

00:08:22.047 – 00:08:43.679

No, I just wanted to get that out of the way. But it really, truly does depend on where you’re at. But, yeah, let’s. Let’s just assume that we are above 2019. Okay. That it. It’s.

In some respects, it’s a. It’s irrelevant because prior to 2019, everybody across the board was on about a 4 to 5% growth. And.

Brian Searl

00:08:43.727 – 00:09:00.511

Well, and I don’t mean to interrupt you, but here’s the thing, too, like, what does that even mean? Because the US dollar is worth less today than it was in 2019. So are you up in revenue and is that actually up in profit or.

So there’s all kinds of interesting discussions around this that I think rebought that. Go ahead.

Scott Bahr

00:09:00.703 – 00:10:40.845

No, I’m talking from the perspective of the guests. Right. The number of people, the people who are out there participating. That’s what I. In general.

And maybe, you know, anyway, so, you know, revenue is a whole different conversation that you can lead. But anyway, so what you had is this obviously, the gigantic disruption of, you know, the.

Of COVID And in our most recent report, if people saw what I did in there was, I applied a model to it that showed, for example, RV sales. Had RV sales continued on the path they were on prior to Covid, they’d actually be ahead of where they’re at now. They’d actually be further ahead.

Their sales would be better. The industry would be healthier right now. So Covid was.

While a lot of people were cheering that, oh, it was this big disruptor, and we had so much going on, it was such a disruption that we’re in this extended hangover from it right now. And it changed people’s attitudes, it changed their behaviors. So what needs to happen is people have to figure out how to reverse it.

The whole idea that when we look at whatever category you want within the RV industry, except for one or two, is interest in motorhomes is down. Interest in towables is down. Interest in everything but camper vans is down. Camper vans are. Have actually increased in interest.

Again, that’s an indicator that something’s changing. But camper vans alone are not going to prop up the entire RV industry.

Brian Searl

00:10:40.925 – 00:10:58.283

Because camper vans are still low. Right. This is a. This is the thing we should talk about briefly about percentages. Right.

The percentage of people already looking at camper vans versus the percentage of people already looking at motorhomes is so down motorhomes 20% up camper vans. 20% is not the same thing. Correct each other out, Right?

Scott Bahr

00:10:58.459 – 00:11:48.847

Correct. So, yeah, again, campervans aren’t going to prop up the industry. It’s. It’s not going to happen. But interest is. Is down in all those areas.

Interest in more of the traditional types of camping is down. Tent camping, interest in that is down. Interest in RVing overall, what’s up? Again, it’s a small percentage of the market.

Again, but like things like overlanding, it’s up. Car camping is way up and actually in volume is starting to increase. So again, these are suggestions that things are changing out there.

So, yeah, overall, but the big drivers of the industry are the ones that are decreasing. And that’s the problem that we’re seeing right now because it’s kind of overwhelming. These somewhat more micro trends And Mike.

Brian Searl

00:11:48.871 – 00:11:59.225

I don’t know if you were trying to talk, but you’re muted. I can’t hear you. So if you were trying to talk, I just looked over and saw your mouth was moving. So now I can. Is that you? Yeah.

Mike Harrison

00:11:59.845 – 00:12:00.693

How about now?

Brian Searl

00:12:00.789 – 00:12:05.461

Yep, now I can hear you. Okay. Did. Were you trying to say something that we should stop and.

Mike Harrison

00:12:05.613 – 00:12:09.917

No, no. He said, you know, these other. But. But glamping is also up,

Scott Bahr

00:12:10.101 – 00:12:32.075

correct

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know what? That almost goes without saying. Yeah, absolutely. Glamping is up. I. I was remiss and not mentioning that. So.

Yeah, and it continues to be up.

And I’ve done some work in individual markets other than the work we even published first, just for some individual clients looking at glamping in certain areas where it never used to show up at all, it’s now showing up.

Brian Searl

00:12:32.615 – 00:13:09.985

So I’d be willing to bet those. Scott. And we need to study this. Or you can just refute what I’m saying, right?

I would be willing to Bet that the glamping that’s up is the same trend that we just studied in RV resorts. The luxury RV resorts are fine. The best of are fine.

I’d be willing to bet the biggest, strongest increase that’s happened in glamping, not generally speaking, for the last, like two years, but recently is the luxury glamping sites are still continuing to go up and the people who sell the really good experiences are continuing to go up and glamping, which is driving the industry. But, like, it’s not the middle people anymore. It’s not the put up a bell tent in my backyard.

Mike Harrison

00:13:11.085 – 00:13:16.475

Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know that that’s accurate.

Brian Searl

00:13:17.095 – 00:13:24.635

Well, and I don’t know either. That’s why I’m saying let’s study it. Right? Yeah, I think that is true with RV resorts. We studied it.

Mike Harrison

00:13:28.495 – 00:13:31.195

Yeah. I mean, if you’re. Go ahead.

Sandy Ellingson

00:13:34.215 – 00:13:35.295

Go ahead. Mike.

Brian Searl

00:13:35.455 – 00:13:39.755

He’s got like a weird lag or something on his phone, I think, like, Max Headroom.

Mike Harrison

00:13:40.085 – 00:13:49.077

I’m so sorry. My computer, you know, blue. I can try signing back into my computer. My camera wasn’t working.

If it’s easier for me to be off camera and use the computer, I will.

Brian Searl

00:13:49.221 – 00:13:55.701

No, it’s okay. Like, we’re just trying to get used to your delay. So we thought you were trying to talk, and then it was just weird. So anyway, go ahead.

Mike Harrison

00:13:55.733 – 00:15:48.179

Yeah, I’m not sure why my camera’s all funky here too.

Anyway, so I, you know, if you go back to the summer of 2023 and you listen to our streams, back then, you know, I was the captain of doom and gloom, you know, at this point, almost 18 months ago. Right. Because we already saw our trends down in the summer for bookings of Q1 of 2020, you know, 4. Right.

And so we already kind of knew this was coming, you know, at that point was not called the reception recession. Right. We just saw interest rates continue to rise and. But we saw our Q1 bookings down.

All of our properties are obviously in the southern areas, Snow birdie areas. So. So we. We had indications and then we saw 2024 happen. And, you know, there’s still a little bit of denial.

And then we hit the summertime and everybody’s like, whoa. Right. And then the Labor Day numbers came out and then CamSpot started releasing their data dig.

And you looked at the next 12 months, and the next 12 months occupancy was, you know, so now I think, you know, certainly the rest of the industry is seeing it. We’ve certainly seen a shift in developer sentiment, if you will. You know, how excited people were 18 months ago versus now.

And it’s not just interest rate environment, but it’s also what’s happening in the industry in terms of numbers and performance.

And we continue to see and talk to some of the larger developers who bought 6, 7, 8 parks, some of them ground up, some of them acquisition that, like you mentioned, overpaid, you know, that are now like, whoa, this is not performing like it did during COVID so to speak. Right. And so, you know, what I’ve cautioned everybody is, you know, as they head into 2025, is realism. Right.

And so, you know, are we going to see 20% declines in 2025? I don’t think so. God, I hope not. But certainly I don’t think that’s what’s happening.

I think, you know, and I had this discussion with our partner, not at.

Brian Searl

00:15:48.187 – 00:15:57.981

The parks who market correctly, no, you’re not going to see 20%, but it’s very feasible if you’re not doing any marketing or pivoting at all. 20%.

Mike Harrison

00:15:58.133 – 00:17:03.109

And that’s, I think, you know, as we get into the micro discussion, but from macro discussion, we had this, you know, exact conversation with our partners yesterday, which is from a macro perspective, you know, the recession’s calming down. Right. Gas prices have calmed down, you know, oh my gosh, what’s going to happen with the election? Yeah.

And so some of those bigger factors are going to be removed from the quote, unquote excuse equation or what’s going on. And now it’s really going to talk about what’s happening in the industry.

And what I’ve continued to say over the last year, year and a half is what needs to happen now is there’s a lot of overbuilding. Right. And now the new supply needs to be absorbed, so to speak. So that’s the other factor here that really hasn’t been studied. You know.

And Scott, if you remember maybe six, eight months ago, I was asking you, I asked, you know, Ojai, I asked, you know, Sage, I asked a lot of the pundits, you know, do we have any, you know, demand factors for supply, you know, you know, what, what, what are those numbers look like?

Because I think what’s happened is you clearly see a lot of these new parks and you know, the Fredericksburg, Texas, I think will be an interesting market study three years from now or. Right. What has happened with that market and supply, etc. But you know, we’ve seen this in.

Brian Searl

00:17:03.117 – 00:17:05.557

The hotel it’s all RV parks.

Mike Harrison

00:17:05.741 – 00:18:53.445

Right. But we’ve seen this in the hotel industry several times. You know, it’s. And it’s in a cycle, right?

And so we’re at that cycle now in the RV industry world, which is, you know, we’ve had some economic factors that have hit us. We have, you know, the supply factors which have hit us. And obviously, you know, we need to absorb it now.

Does that mean the industry is going to go belly up? Absolutely not. Right. It is still an exciting industry. It’s still a healthy industry. But there are factors that we need to consider for the next year.

And now if you go back to your part about marketing, Brian, I think if you go to the micro standpoint, then this is why I mentioned glamping. You know, we tell every single one of our clients this, that if you have not had glamping in your park, add it, add it tomorrow.

Because it, as you continue to see through your research, it’s the number one search term, you know, it’s up however many hundreds percent you want to talk about, you know, each year. And it will only continue to grow, right. As the Hyatt and Hilton partnerships only continue to expand, it becomes more commonplace.

You know, that’s where I think, you know, the next wave continues for the RV parks. You know, certainly there’s an access to capital and a barrier to entry standpoint of what you’re going to put in your property.

And then to your point, Brian, the evolution of marketing, enhanced operations, these are all the things that happen in the hotel industry again.

And all these cycles is who is managing their bottom line the best, who is marketing the most effective, who is doing sales calls, what’s a sales call, who is doing revenue management. Right. It’s all those things that, you know, being an evolved operator, you know, if you build it, they will come no longer exists.

If you were, you know, a property that had always, you know, that still has the AOL email address and had always hit 70, 80, 90% occupancy, well, it just can’t happen anymore. So now action has to happen. And I think that’s a different trend for the industry.

Brian Searl

00:18:53.605 – 00:19:40.255

And I want to talk about that. Right. But before we do that, and I think Scott will have some data to shed on this too, as we get into more of the micro. Right. Is that like there’s.

I think there’s something that you’re missing. And I think this is my opinion. Right. But I think we are just at the beginning of the economy getting worse. I don’t think we’re recovering.

I think it’s going to recover for people who are buying parks and I think it’s going to recover for people who have a lot of disposable income and cash and who are going to the luxury resorts. But I think it’s just getting started for the economy because I think we’re looking at like, I don’t think anybody’s been laid off yet.

Some people have. Right. But I think mass layoffs are coming in 2025 and I think that’s the only thing that’s going to keep that. Like you’re.

Everyone here is assuming that the industry is going to be the same because the participant number is going to be the same because the same people.

Mike Harrison

00:19:40.335 – 00:19:46.005

I don’t think everybody’s assuming that. I think most people aren’t assuming. I think a lot of people are assuming it’s going to be down.

Brian Searl

00:19:46.665 – 00:20:05.525

I think a lot of people aren’t even looking at the data Mike, which is part of the reason I wanted to have the show. Right. Like, a lot of people don’t even know that the campspot data exists or the analytics exists.

They can’t even look at the page views of their website. Right. So I think this is.

So I think a lot of them, like have the opportunity to know because there’s data being put out there, but I don’t think they’re looking.

Mike Harrison

00:20:07.665 – 00:20:11.721

I should have worn my gray shirt for Brian today. Man. Who brought the cynic today.

Sandy Ellingson

00:20:11.793 – 00:20:50.915

Well, turn to say everything’s going to be okay. I do agree with what you’re saying, Brian.

When I don’t think people are looking at the data and this is something that Scott and I have talked about on different occasions and Mike and I have talked about is that there’s a huge gap right now on education for a lot of the smaller mom and pop parks, which is, I think one of the reasons why they are lagging behind resorts. But for at least two years, you guys have been hearing me say, and other people too. It’s, it’s.

People are looking for experiences, not just a camping trip.

Brian Searl

00:20:51.855 – 00:20:56.343

Yeah, but there’s a whole lot less people who are looking for experiences, period. Now too.

Sandy Ellingson

00:20:56.439 – 00:21:04.119

Not. I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I think that the disposable income people have had has been reduced during this.

Brian Searl

00:21:04.167 – 00:21:06.823

Okay, that’s fair. So they’re still looking for experiences, but.

Sandy Ellingson

00:21:06.839 – 00:22:07.755

They don’t have the money for the. Yeah, they’re still looking for the experiences, but the experiences have not been affordable.

And we came through a season with COVID where night rates went up and all that kind of stuff. And so now what we’ve got to figure out is what does that readjustment look like?

And so I think a lot of that is not necessarily about reducing our site nights because I do think that a lot of our parks, especially the smaller mom and pops, need that additional income to continue to upgrade their parks and become more modernized. But I do think there’s other things we need to be looking at, like our cancellation policies, our deposit policies.

All those can impact the ability for somebody that will book without because they have less stress about the booking experience. I think now is the time we have to embrace technology. And while we’ve been adopting it a little bit as a camping industry, I would.

There’s probably still 50% of our parks that can’t even take an online booking. And so.

Brian Searl

00:22:09.735 – 00:22:51.705

So I agree with you, but what.

I mean to cut you off, like, just for a second, but I agree with you, right? Like, but I think those things are further down the funnel than we have perhaps, maybe time to discuss right now in the show.

Because I think, like, you’re right. I think all those things are important that you’re talking about cancellation policies, all that stuff.

All that is going to impact when you get the consumer who still has the money to spend on the experience to your website with good marketing through your funnel all the way to the camp spot or the new book to the reservation, then that is going to absolutely make a difference.

But I think that that’s a conversation like I would love to have with you in like 30 minutes once we get to that, like, what else can we do that impacts it more? Do you have ideas there?

Sandy Ellingson

00:22:53.285 – 00:22:56.037

All right, say that again. Impacts what the overall.

Brian Searl

00:22:56.101 – 00:23:12.503

Like, if you like, do you know where I’m going, Scott, or am I just totally off target? Like the amount of impact we can have with a cancellation policy change versus the amount of impact we can have with technology or marketing. Right.

That’s what I mean. Not. I’m not discounting what you’re saying.

Sandy Ellingson

00:23:12.639 – 00:24:47.135

That’s exactly where I was about to go. I’m sorry. It’s like people are looking for experiences and it’s not just the experience.

They’re looking for the package experience, especially a lot of younger people.

You know how we always see hotel trends kind of trickling down and coming into that outdoor hospitality industry, I think a lot of people are now, especially younger people are looking for that cruise ship experience. Give me a package deal. So they don’t know how to budget.

But if you give them, hey, this trip is going to cost you $2,500 and you can pay for it $200 a month at the time, they’re more likely to do that.

And so for a lot of my parks, regardless of whether they’re a resort or they’re the small mom and pop, there’s things that they can do to create ancillary revenue streams. And I know, because I’ve done this with them, helping them understand how to do F and B, how to do additional sales on different things. And so.

And then when you are able to package that together for them, 65% of them will rebook with you for the next year as a return guest if there’s just the occasional camper type. So I think resorts are naturally positioned to win already because they are offering these things already, which is why it looks like they do better.

But I think that the smaller mom and pops or less amenitized parks still have that same opportunity, which is why I think it’s so important we’re having this conversation right now. I want them to get educated and get ahead of 2025, not be trying to catch up in 2025.

Brian Searl

00:24:47.255 – 00:24:51.535

Well, there are. They. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know that that time. I don’t even know that they have enough time.

Sandy Ellingson

00:24:51.695 – 00:24:55.527

Oh, I think I, I think there’s enough the things like unless you’re bringing.

Brian Searl

00:24:55.551 – 00:25:06.517

In like a mic to run your operations or management or like a Scott to do a data analysis, like, you need help, you need help fast. You can’t do it by yourself. There’s not.

Sandy Ellingson

00:25:06.701 – 00:25:30.385

I do agree with that. That is absolutely correct.

But once you get someone to help or you find the right tools, I don’t think it takes you six months or a year to implement them. And I do. Implementing the right kind of tech to maximize your efficiency and embracing the right kind of marketing is absolutely critical for 2025.

Brian Searl

00:25:31.095 – 00:25:31.871

Scott?

Scott Bahr

00:25:32.023 – 00:27:52.555

Yeah, that, I mean, how, that, how that, you know, dovetails with kind of the overall conversation is that what we’re in the midst of overall, nationally, is a trend where the outdoor recreation participant is much less engaged in outdoor recreation. They’re much more casual. There’s a.

The trend is that people participate less in outdoor rec outside of outdoor hospitality, Participation is up, yet actual participation events are down. So.

And we saw the same thing last year in camping, where even though participation was down, still down like 4%, but the actual number of camping nights declined. So what we’re losing a lot more of at a Much faster pace are the people who participate repeatedly.

They’re shortening their trips, they’re taking fewer trips, or they’re taking blended trips. And part of that does not include camping.

So what the challenge for the industry, you know, to dovetail with the whole marketing piece is how do you get more of those people to do that? They’re participating. Hiking trails are packed, the rivers are packed. I talked to a campground owner just this past week.

They said for this past year, their camper nights were substantially down, but the revenue was even because their river trips were way up. They couldn’t move fast enough to get people on the river this year. So for them, they were.

They were kind of happy, but a little, kind of like concerned because people. People weren’t camping and we had beautiful weather, unlike the year before where they flooded out. So, you know, there’s the challenge.

But for them, their marketing going forward is going to be come up here and go for a river trip, you know, maybe stay with us too. But that, that to me is the challenge we. We have. And I think this, again, I’m going to go back to the impact of COVID where people are less.

They’re less engaged. We. We brought in a lot of people who just really aren’t that into the outdoors as much. They like participating, but they’re just not into it.

They’re not that avid person. That person that they live. They go camping every weekend. Those are the people that we don’t have as many of. And it’s the.

It’s the younger generations who are kind of out there and participating at lower levels.

Sandy Ellingson

00:27:52.675 – 00:29:35.555

Yeah, that was one of the key things too, that, that I think for success next year is I think we’ve got to recreate the entry point into camping. I think KOA has always been pretty smart because they’ve always had tent camping, which was an entry point for the.

For younger people with less income to be able to get into camping. And then you just kind of grew into it. You tent camped and then you.

It rained and you were in the tent, you saw somebody with the camper, and now you’ve got a little bit more money, so you move up to the pool behind and there’s a cycle of getting them into it. I think we’ve lost that in that. First of all, we’ve had people are less comfortable from a security standpoint of tent camping.

And then number two, we were not as engaging. A lot of parks stopped allowing tent campers because they felt they could get more money for an RV site.

And so we kind of closed off that opportunity to enter. And so. And I think we have to learn to embrace new things.

I can’t tell you how many people I talked to after hearing Scott speak at one of the events about car camping. And I’d say, to a park, you know, how do you feel about car campers? And they’d say, oh, we’re not letting anybody camp here in their car.

And I’m like, okay, well, let’s talk about this.

And by the time you talk through it and they recognize that this is actually a new, very valid way of getting someone into camping, then they soften, but they don’t understand it. And that’s why I do really believe that Covid changed the landscape.

And everybody needs to be re educated because if we keep doing what we’ve always done, especially for my heart, which is my mom and pops, they will not succeed.

Brian Searl

00:29:36.925 – 00:30:02.839

I think Mike wants to talk here in a second. But, like, I just want to say, like, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying in principle, but I think the entry level is completely different.

Like, I don’t think you’re going tent to RV anymore. I don’t think. I don’t think RVs ever sell at the level they ever have in 2019.

I don’t think you’re ever going to sell more RVs than you did in 20, 19, 40 years from now. I don’t think you’re ever going to have that happen. So I think the entry level now is glamping well, and I was going.

Mike Harrison

00:30:02.847 – 00:32:20.865

To kind of go where sort of what you’re saying, Brian. I think there’s a paradigm shift, right? And necessity is the mother of all invention.

And we’re talking about camping and tent camping, but I think it’s more than that.

You know, I remember when we got into the industry, you know, almost 10 years ago, and we were looking at els and sun, and we’re like, oh, we could do this.

And we built an RV resort, not really understanding that what sun and ELS are doing, majority wise, they’re not resorts, they’re MH neighborhoods, right? And so we were looking at the numbers and what they did, and it’s like, oh, we could do. And we found out the hard way, so to speak, that, oh, it’s.

I mean, we were very successful, but it’s not the same thing. And so right now, I think there needs to be a paradigm shift. There’s going to be a blending of the MH and the camping world, if you will. Right.

And so one of our strategies for next year, for example, is we are definitely pivoting towards long term and less transient. If we don’t, then we are set up for failure. Right?

And so Brian, you know, as we talk about on our marketing calls, how do we market, how do we SEO towards long term traveling, nurses, full timers, construction, etc. You know, build your base and because to your point, the transient. And it’s no different than the hotel world, right?

The hotel world, you know, groups go in and out depending on what the group cycle is, right?

Conventions go in and out, you know, government travel, depending on what the per diem is or depending on where they are with the budget, goes in and out.

And so how do you pivot your strategies to make sure that you build the best mix of business based on what, you know, the market is telling you and dictating towards you? And so what’s interesting about the RV industry and you know, Sandy and I and Scott and I mean, we’ve all talked about this ad nauseam.

What you define as glamping, what I define as glamping, what somebody else defines as glamping, what you define as transient, what I define as transient, what you define as camping and what I define as camping, it’s all different. And my point is it doesn’t matter. You know, at the end of the day, we’re in the outdoor hospitality business.

And so in business you have to find the right strategy to make yourself the most successful.

And for us, it’s understanding what the market conditions are and how we pivot to find what our new mix is going to be, which is going to be a combination of camping, transient, long term, mh, full timers, et cetera, and smashing all of those together because we can’t just rely on one bucket. So that was my point.

Brian Searl

00:32:20.905 – 00:32:31.329

No, you have to expand, right? And so this is like, maybe I need to set the stage from my perspective, right? Like, so let somebody pick a state here just to just.

So I am not prepped for this, right? Pick a state.

Mike Harrison

00:32:31.497 – 00:32:33.569

Arizona, you are.

Brian Searl

00:32:33.617 – 00:32:36.993

I already know Arizona. Pick a state that nobody has a stake in.

Mike Harrison

00:32:37.129 – 00:32:38.085

Oklahoma.

Brian Searl

00:32:38.545 – 00:33:30.841

All right, so Oklahoma. So let’s just look at. We’ll just pick out Oklahoma City. It doesn’t even matter, right? But just for an example, like this is.

So this is the conversations we’re having with our clients when they ask us what to do in 2025.

And I’m not going to give you the whole strategy because but this is the nuts of it, right, is that there are only a certain Number of people who are coming to Oklahoma City, whether it’s Google searches or AI searches or Facebook searches or whatever, who are looking for Oklahoma City, RV resort, RV park, tent camping, glamping, whatever, that’s a finite cap of a ceiling. Now that’s different in every single city, in every single place, in every single category, and every single keyword.

But generally speaking, Scott, I think you’ll agree that in almost all areas of the country outside of Yellowstone and maybe for whatever reason, Indiana, this number of people who are searching for these keywords is down year over year. Is that fair?

Scott Bahr

00:33:30.993 – 00:33:31.961

Yep, that’s fair.

Brian Searl

00:33:31.993 – 00:34:27.877

Okay, so your ceiling of available people that you can reach who are already searching for those keywords is lower in 2024 than it was in 2023. We expect it to be generally lower in 2025 than it is in 2024. Which means that if you don’t figure out how to expand your strategy, meaning that you.

And that’s anything from adding glamping or allowing people who go car camping or changing your rates or adding new amenities or like, but, but there’s still that finite cap of people who are looking for RV resorts in the city. But to the, to the reaching out of the people who are in other industries, right, who are coming to.

So there, so there are people who are looking for RV resort and RV park.

There are more people who are coming to Oklahoma City, generally speaking, who don’t own an RV and who are not looking for traditional search terms like 10 camping or campgrounds, but sure as heck might be willing to stay with you if they knew you had glamping or cabins. To Mike’s point about like, you must.

Mike Harrison

00:34:27.941 – 00:34:33.878

Add this stuff or they’re looking for a hotel room and you haven’t loaded your stamping into the hotel inventory, right?

Brian Searl

00:34:33.926 – 00:39:24.791

So that’s what I mean with glamping, you can convert the hotels guest into a glamping guest, right? And so you’ve got to look at that. So how do I reach those people? Because I’m not a hotel, but how do I get in front of those people?

So then maybe I look for the people who like fishing or boating or going out on a lake or doing the outdoor rec stuff that Scott was talking about.

And then I show those people, like, here’s some valuable information related to what you’re looking for, whether it’s birdwatching in Oklahoma City or whatever, through social media or through blog posts or through whatever else. Now you’re on my site. Now you’re curious. Now I’ve got You in my funnel. Oh, look.

What is this place I’m on? They have glamping. That’s interesting. I never even knew that was a thing. Or it was nice, or it had air conditioning.

And so then all of a sudden, you’ve expanded your audience of people who are.

Instead of just the people who are RV resort people or RV park or campground or tent camping or glamping, you’ve now got an opportunity to reach all of the people who are coming to Oklahoma City for things that are, in the beginning, closer to, like, if I’m willing to go hiking in Oklahoma City. I don’t even know if that’s a thing in Oklahoma City.

Walking around downtown, I’m more likely to spend time outside, which means I’m more likely to go camping, right? And so you work your way through the types of people coming to Oklahoma City who are more likely to convert into an outdoor experience. But you still.

When all that’s said and done, you still have a finite cap of how many people are going to come to Oklahoma City, period. So then. Then it.

Then it becomes a game of, like, all right, well, if I’m really doing my marketing, right, and I’ve hit all the people and we’ll talk about the different things of marketing and how you got to expand that in later, right?

But, like, if you’ve got all the people who are coming to Oklahoma City, period, then you’ve got to decide, do I become a tourism bureau for Oklahoma City? Do I reach out to, like, I don’t know, whatever Duncan is, or Marlow or Piedmont or Perry and reach.

Or Tulsa even, and reach out to those people and say, like, man, Oklahoma City is a cool place.

You should consider coming here and then bringing more people into the city that I can then convert into people who want to stay at glamping or whatever else, right? I mean, that’s the game. There’s. There’s a finite cap of people, period. You have to. You have to be firing on all your cylinders.

You have to be accepting a diverse roster of guests like Mike was talking about. You have to be willing to play with your entry level. You have to be willing to add glamping.

You’ve got to be thinking about all of this stuff, and that’s one. But at some point, you’re going to get to a cap of the number of people you can target.

You can’t just go turn on Google Ads because they’re not searching for the terms in the numbers that they used to. It doesn’t work like that anymore. So Then you’ve got to.

So now once you’re humming on all marketing, then you’ve got to move to the next piece, which is of those people who you’ve now got to find you through a blog post or social media or through traditional SEO or your Google Ad campaigns or whatever you’re doing, humming on all cylinders.

You have to make sure that the maximum amount of people who are already reading your email, who are already on your website, who are already calling you on the phone, are actually converting. That requires competent, coherent people to answer your phones and be happy and excited and cheerful to talk to people.

It requires them to have an intimate knowledge of your park. It requires you to, I guess, period, answer the phone first. First, right. Which is apparently a bigger struggle than I understood.

But converting those people who are already aware of you through the marketing into like, at the highest rate possible. So maybe it’s just making up a number 20% now.

Well, what if I can optimize that by spending a little bit more money on the person who’s sitting behind my front desk?

Because they have, you know, 20 years ago they went to college for sales and they can talk coherently or they’re happy and I have a bubbly personality. Maybe I can take that 20% and turn it into 30. Then I’ve got more dollars.

I’ve expanded my market through the other direction, right through raising my conversions. And then it’s all about margins. How do I cut my costs? Because I’ve talked about, and many of you can disagree with me, and I might be wrong.

I expect this economy to continue to go down. I think it’s going to be a huge problem when the knowledge workers who are luxury demographic of 75 to $150,000 a year start losing their jobs.

Because AI in 2025, I don’t think they’re going to have money to travel. I think luxury is in trouble too. So then I think it becomes a game of margins. How do I cut my costs and survive until the economy comes back?

Because it will probably. But how do I do that? Right? And so these are all. Those are the three things that we’re talking to people about.

I don’t know if you guys agree or disagree or tell me I’m crazy.

Mike Harrison

00:39:24.943 – 00:39:28.863

I’m not sure. I mean, there’s 75 points in that diatribe.

Brian Searl

00:39:28.879 – 00:39:37.475

There three things, right? Three things. Do your marketing well, maximize your conversions of the people who are aware of you already and focus on your margins.

Mike Harrison

00:39:38.935 – 00:39:47.163

You said a lot more than that. But if it’s Just those three things then. Yes. The other points that I don’t know.

Brian Searl

00:39:47.299 – 00:39:58.255

Yeah. I mean, I’m not saying, like, I’m 100% right. I’m not saying that you agree with every single point.

I’m saying I know we have differing opinions, but generally speaking, those are the three things we’re preaching. Yes, I have different methods than everybody. Right.

Sandy Ellingson

00:39:58.595 – 00:41:31.193

But what you’re saying, Brian, also mirrors what I was saying, because when you’re talking about keyword strategy and SEO and attracting people to your site, you’re using terms that represent experiences. What is it that I want to do? Right. And so I might not be looking for a campground. I might be looking for a place to go fishing. Right.

And how do I use those terms? Because those are assets I have around me as a campground to draw them in. And so I think it all kind of goes together.

I do think, too, that we have to be aware of and start looking at again that younger generation and bringing them into the camping experience. And that’s how we increase demand, is through those younger people. They’re not campers yet, so we’re there, but there’s plenty of them.

So we need to increase that demand in that demographic.

And one thing we know is that the difference between a hotel and a campground is nobody goes to a hotel and walks in and has the manager group you by your first name and ask if you brought your dog with you. Right. You don’t walk across the hall in your PJs to the person in the room and say, hey, can I borrow some sugar?

Or how about coming over for a cup of coffee? That happens every day, naturally, in campgrounds. And the generation Z is the loneliest generation, the most disconnected generation we’ve ever had.

And their strongest felt need is for connection, real connection. And we can provide that in campgrounds. That’s our. That’s our superpower.

Brian Searl

00:41:31.369 – 00:42:00.577

So I agree with that and I agree with what you’re talking about, like, at the bottom of the, like the, the margins are affected by the cancellation policies, by the deposits. The, like, all that stuff plays into. I think it’s not just. I think it’s a demographic play. It’s. It’s what you just said. It’s Gen Z.

But it’s also other demographics. It’s Earl from black folks camp, too. It’s reaching out to those, to that demographic.

It’s reaching out to the people who don’t normally even consider camping or outdoor hospitality or whatever we want to define it as. Right.

Sandy Ellingson

00:42:00.721 – 00:43:21.905

Well, and the other thing, too, that I’m really passionate about 2025, and I’m dedicating a lot of my time to is for our communities to stop working in silos. We’ve got to start working together. Campgrounds have to work with the industry that produces the RVs.

And we have to join together to solve these problems. And when we do, we’re going to become stronger.

And then we also need to engage the RVers themselves and we need to listen to them and let them tell us what it is that they want instead of assuming. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times in the eight or nine years that I’ve been working between the two.

I’ve heard somebody say at one level, well, we ship to the dealers what they want. And then you ask the dealers, what do you want?

And they say, we want RVs that have brown interiors because they don’t get dirty when people walk through them. I mean, what sense does that make?

The whole world is telling you they want the lighter colors, they want more open air, but we’re going to ship brown because it stays cleaner on the lot. And these are the conversations we need to be having collectively, together, in order to truly succeed.

And when we build those bridges of communications, I do think it’ll be. Will be better.

Brian Searl

00:43:23.205 – 00:43:30.185

I was gonna ask Scott a question, but he looks kind of busy over there now. Poorly. More important, I don’t know. What kind of dog do you have, Scott?

Scott Bahr

00:43:30.725 – 00:43:35.105

That is a beagle, red tick, coonhound mix.

Brian Searl

00:43:36.765 – 00:43:42.401

Never would have guessed that in a thousand years. I don’t know any dog breeds really at all, except Yorkshire terriers, which are the best dogs looks ever.

Scott Bahr

00:43:42.553 – 00:43:49.217

But Denise had to leave. She had the little emergency come up. So she’s only six months old.

Brian Searl

00:43:49.281 – 00:43:59.205

So I was going to ask you like, for like your thoughts on both what I said and what Sandy just said. And then generally the RV industry. I think we wanted to talk about that briefly, like just from a data set.

Scott Bahr

00:43:59.865 – 00:46:18.045

But I think there’s a couple things like, you know, kind of going back to the economy. A down economy can provide an opportunity.

My view is somewhat contrary to some in that is I feel like when the people still want to travel, the desire is there. How do you figure out how to do that in a down economy?

And I think some of the things you mentioned, margins, all that kind of stuff, how do you figure that out? How do you in increase a stay by one night? You know, some of that.

That kind of stuff, like convince someone to stay one more night, you know, those are to Me, those are the things that, you know, other challenges. I feel the other challenge is the long term.

Again, it’s, we, we had the, the what happened during COVID kind of wiped out some of that progress we were making.

And on the, the base kind of the, from the bottom up, you know, the people who started off because they want to go outdoors, they want to try camping, they wanted to try glamping, they wanted to try a different outdoor experience. We lost some of those people. We. So again, I think that, you know, there’s two issues here.

One is the short term, how the 20, 25, what do you do, what adjustments do you make? I think there’s things that people can do to bring, bring people in to, to be self serving.

People need to do some more research and figure out what it is that people are looking for. What kind of experiences do they want? How do you increase that night by one more?

How do you, you know, how do you tap into some of those different markets? There’s, I think, I think there are some short term solutions.

Long term, I think the industry, if you look at the industry as a whole, needs to do a better job of bringing people in and figuring out how to engage them at a different level to what, you know, when you think about what are the benefits of being outdoors, you know, having the outdoor hospitality experience, what are those benefits?

And to, to convince a generation of people who are not very social, who are not very attuned to the, you know, other, the other people around them who are very much embedded in their screen time. How do you engage them more? How do you get, convince them that this is the thing to do and the thing is just get them on site.

That’s what I, I think is just.

Brian Searl

00:46:18.665 – 00:46:22.195

You have to go where they are. Right. And they’re on their screens.

Scott Bahr

00:46:23.015 – 00:46:24.647

Exactly. Bingo. That’s.

Brian Searl

00:46:24.671 – 00:46:25.615

But they’re not on Google.

Scott Bahr

00:46:25.695 – 00:47:43.117

That’s where we’re circling back to.

It’s like you get them, find them on there, find the people that, you know, I’ve, I’ve always been really snarky about like influencers and stuff like that. But I also see the value in it that, yeah, find the influencers. The, the ones that they’re gonna, that will have an impact, show them.

You know, if you’re doing marketing, find some influencers, find some people to use that influence.

This group that, you know, their peer group that are out there, that are out camping, that are glamping, that are staying at these resorts, that are having a good time, you know, more, you know, and moving it beyond the Instagram moments and kind of, it’s that emotional connection. I know for a data I’m not supposed to talk about emotions but it’s all about the emotional connection. How do you tap into that with your marketing?

How do you do that? How do you get at that? You hire Brian Searle and he will help you with that. I mean that’s the point. That’s the point of the marketing.

It’s like find that emotional connection. Do it through your marketing. The opportunity is there, the people are there, the desire is there. As Mike said earlier, we live in a. Or live.

We work in live. I guess it’s kind of a Freudian slip there.

But the idea that we work in a very robust industry, one that has a good future but you have to figure out how to adapt. You know, we have to be more nimble.

Brian Searl

00:47:43.261 – 00:48:54.707

Well that’s the thing. The people are there, right, but they’re not where you expect them to be.

Generally from a 20 year history, right, like, like if you talk to and I’m in this industry in marketing, right. I’m talking about my peers who have been in this for 20 years.

I would, I would say 70 to 80% of the people who are marketing experts or professionals. If you ask them what to do to attract more people to any industry period or but specifically to ours, they know less about right.

Coming from the outside but to any industry the answer coming out of 70 to 80% of their mouths is going to be post more on social run Google Ads because they’re not even thinking about this stuff or, or Gen Z or wherever they’re looking, right. Like there, there are more people certainly who are, who are probably going to tell you like go on TikTok, make videos.

The algorithms are favoring that. There’s more of that. Like that number is not 70 to 80%. Right. But the like the attention is gone for Google.

Like I read I posted on LinkedIn the other day there’s an article in the Wall Street Journal I don’t think I posted the link to Googling is for old people. Like it’s not quite that bad yet, right. But it’s quickly going there an important.

Mike Harrison

00:48:54.811 – 00:49:40.835

Part of our, our industry. And so I don’t disagree with you Brian that we need to evolve and adapt. But if somebody asked me, you know, gosh, I need to get more business.

The first two things I’m still always going to ask them is what is your digital strategy and that includes SEO and Google Ads and what’s your social strategy that doesn’t mean what you’re saying isn’t important as also plussing and. But that none of what you’re saying in my opinion, and it’s just an opinion replaces those other two.

Those are still the majority of driving the business. That doesn’t mean that we don’t need to evolve and to integrate some of these other new strategies.

But I think to dismiss them and say the world of Google Ads is over, I don’t think is accurate.

Brian Searl

00:49:40.995 – 00:49:57.287

I mean, I think the problem that you’re having is that right now that statement is true, Mike. But in three months it’s going to be less true. And in three months it’s going to be less true.

It’s going to move so fast that you don’t have time to just decide that Google Ads and social is the only thing you’re going to do in 2025.

Mike Harrison

00:49:57.471 – 00:50:12.431

I never said only. I never said only. I said but 80, 20 rule, and in a year will it be 70, 30 rule. Who knows what the number will be?

But for sure it’s got to be a mix of strategies, right?

Brian Searl

00:50:12.463 – 00:52:42.777

But it’s fragmented. Even in Google, Even in Google, if their attention is still on Google now you’ve got AI overviews that are not the same thing. How do you get in them?

How do you advertise in them? How do you make sure your company is the answer? Because there’s not going to be blue links.

Like Google has literally stated this as far back as May, that blue links are going to be gone. So at that point, what is your ranking? To your point, Mike, what is your SEO strategy?

SEO, yes, for sure, is way more important to me than Google Ads. Way more important. But SEO and social, yeah, I’m not disagreeing with you. Right. But social done right.

And the thing with social being done right is it’s not just go post. We have so many clients who call us like, you know, I hired you to post on social media. You’re posting a picture of my RV park.

How come it doesn’t have 5000 likes? Because no one cares. I mean, no one, no one cares that you have a pretty sunset at your park. Like, everybody has that.

Like, you have to do something different on social to stand out. Whether that’s video content or entertainment or, you know, whatever it is, you’ve got to please the algorithms.

It has to be interesting, it has to be valuable. People have to want to see it. And so yes, social, Mike, but social completely differently than people are used to.

Like, they’re just not paying attention to the right numbers. The vanity metrics. I mean, we’re not even going down the rabbit hole of like page views. Like, forget about your page views.

You’re never going to have as much traffic as you did in 2019 on your camp or even 20, like recently this year, right? Ever. It’s going to go down.

And if you look to the thought process of the people who, like, I have clients emailing me who, like, my page views are down, what’s happening? How do I get them back up? You don’t. But that’s okay. That’s not a problem.

Because what used to happen is people would go to Google without AI overviews in Google or any of the other things we’re not even talking about yet, right? And they would click to a website and Sandy’s done this, Sandy’s full time, right?

They would click to a website, they’d look and learn about the park and they go back and they look at the next, and they look at the next one. They look at the next one. They may look at 4, 5, 6, and then they’d make a decision.

But now all that research is going to be done either in a Google AI overview or chat GPT or whatever else to the point where they click to your website. You’re going to be one of two choices. So your page views are going to go down.

But the people who are there, if you do your marketing right, should be more likely to convert into a reservation because they know more about your park already. Nobody’s thinking about this stuff. They’re paying attention to the wrong things.

Sandy Ellingson

00:52:42.921 – 00:53:47.505

And I think a lot of what you’re saying too, Brian, relates to when we first started talking about inbound marketing. We talked about whether you were shooting with a shotgun or with a rifle. Right.

And I think the problem in the industry right now is we’ve, we’ve kind of coalesced with other industries and then we’ve, we’ve expanded out. Scott and I had this long conversation about what is glamping what, you know, is it a campground, an RV park or, you know, or a long term stay?

I mean, there’s so much not, I mean so much, so many terminology, right, of different things and different options and they all kind of cross over. They don’t have clear meanings. And so a lot of what’s going on is we’re not even explaining who we are and what we do well anymore.

You know, it’s, it’s kind of like brand terms, right? People used to say I want a Coke and they didn’t mean they wanted Coca Cola. They meant I want a Coke or a Pepsi or an RC Cola.

Brian Searl

00:53:48.005 – 00:53:51.053

Or the white powder. It could be the white powder, let’s be honest.

Sandy Ellingson

00:53:51.229 – 00:54:05.279

But we’re in all of these searches, right? This all speaks to how we invest our money and the searches and how we find things. Because these terms are not clear enough.

Brian Searl

00:54:05.407 – 00:54:52.951

But those terms are done. Like forget about it now. Like forget about the keyword search terms because we’ve been all done. Like they’re not done yet. To Mike’s point.

They’re not going to be done completely for a. Well, depending on what Google does next year. Right, but they’re not.

Like, if it’s all AI overviews in Google, it’s going to be much faster, which it probably will be. But like they’re not searching for these keywords anymore.

AI in Google, in overviews in Google because they’re still using Google, to Mike’s point, right, is going to understand that you want like some kind of a luxury experience.

And if you do your marketing right and present your stuff, your information about your property and get it into the AI searches, the AI is going to know that it can present an opportunity for whatever the you want to call it, right next to the hotel.

Sandy Ellingson

00:54:53.143 – 00:55:19.983

Yeah, well, and what I’m saying is that it’s not even about the technology. It’s about the step before the technology.

The individual who desires to have some type of a travel experience doesn’t even understand enough about what we the insiders are using and talking about. That has multiple meanings to accurately even ask AI or search in Google and get what they want, right?

Brian Searl

00:55:19.999 – 00:55:25.779

But they don’t need to anymore is what I’m trying to sell you. The AI is going to understand what they mean. The AI is going to understand.

Sandy Ellingson

00:55:25.947 – 00:55:34.707

I don’t agree with that because I have a conversation with, with Campy all the time and ask it questions and it gives me two or three different answers because it still doesn’t understand.

Brian Searl

00:55:34.891 – 00:56:07.545

Well, again, that’s going to rapidly improve, right? Like as early as January. But that’s the. But that’s the thing is it’s.

You’re not going to have to implicitly say glamping is my point, or outdoor hospitality or luxury camping or whatever the heck the other words are that people are using. It’s going to understand that you’re open to outdoor experiences is what you’re looking for.

Or you just want to go stay, where’s a nice place for me to stay? If you do your marketing right, why shouldn’t that surface a glamping Place alongside a hotel. Like it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

Sandy Ellingson

00:56:08.605 – 00:56:12.933

Why don’t want it to show me a hotel if I’m traveling with my rig?

Brian Searl

00:56:13.109 – 00:56:31.483

Well, but then you, that’s your search though. You know that, right? Like you’re looking for RV searches. Then you’re question is going to become more of not Oklahoma City RV Park.

Your question is going to become where can I go stay with my rig when I’m traveling through Oklahoma City? And it’s not even going to be typing, it’s going to be on voice.

Sandy Ellingson

00:56:31.659 – 00:56:45.855

Yeah, that was the point I’m trying to make. Is the, the end user, before they ever get to the tool, is not educated enough on how to ask the right questions to get the right answers.

AI is smarter than we are at this point.

Brian Searl

00:56:45.895 – 00:57:11.005

Right. Which means they, they’re going to have to be less smart, is my point.

They’re going to be able to have that conversation and say, I’m traveling through Oklahoma City. I’d like to stay in a nice luxury property or place or whatever they do.

And, and why can’t like, certainly it’s going to still recommend the nice hotels, right? Like the Omni we just stayed at or whatever. But why can’t one of those mixes be a nice glamping resort in Oakland City?

I don’t even know if one exists, but somebody will build it.

Sandy Ellingson

00:57:11.135 – 00:57:11.845

Yeah.

Brian Searl

00:57:13.105 – 00:57:22.233

Am I like, am I off base, Mike? Like, you’re my voice of reason, right? You like to be that person. So like, again, you got to pay attention to it all, but you have to pay attention.

Mike Harrison

00:57:22.329 – 00:58:28.723

I think what you just said is important. You have to pay attention to it all. I disagree that AI is taking over the world. I think you absolutely need to use it as an enhancement.

But there are going to be people and they’re going to continue to be people that need a visual, that are going to need to pull up the Google map and see where everything is and see where this park is and where Oklahoma City is and we’ll see where the data is. And asking the question have AI give you its only answer back is limiting. You know, we had this exact conversation in our, in our office.

And you know, all seven of us can’t be wrong. Right? But it’s perspective. And so there’s different segments, there’s different generations, there’s different users.

And so it’s going to have to be a balance. It is no different than when the hotel industry, some people are still using hard keys and some people are using digital keys. Oh my God.

Everybody’s going to use a digital key. And eventually that happened 40 years later. But there still are some hotels that use a hard key.

And so this is not in the next six months or the next year that AI Google doesn’t exist, and Google Ads don’t exist, and Google search doesn’t exist.

Brian Searl

00:58:28.819 – 00:58:36.217

Google is going to be AI, is what I’m trying to tell you. The difference is they’re going to force AI on to everyone and the users.

Mike Harrison

00:58:36.241 – 00:58:38.297

Are going to tell them no and.

Brian Searl

00:58:38.361 – 00:58:39.565

They’Re not going to care.

Mike Harrison

00:58:39.865 – 00:58:52.105

And that may be the case. But I still think, you know, I use AI for what I use AI for. It cannot help me enough to do the search in the way that I need to do the search.

And I’m not alone.

Brian Searl

00:58:52.225 – 00:58:57.641

But that’s what’s coming in January. Mike, like, OpenAI is already like, agents.

Mike Harrison

00:58:57.753 – 00:58:58.805

We will see.

Brian Searl

00:59:00.225 – 00:59:05.765

It’s already done. It can operate your computer like it’s going to do. It’s gonna.

Sandy Ellingson

00:59:06.425 – 00:59:15.217

This conversation, we live and breathe this stuff every day, those of us on this, on the podcast. But the people that are out there, they don’t.

Brian Searl

00:59:15.321 – 00:59:16.005

Yeah.

Sandy Ellingson

00:59:16.345 – 00:59:40.785

And things are changing so much, which to me reinforces two things that I’m passionate about.

One is proper education, and two is conversations like this, but not within us, with the broader community, so that we all learn from each other and we maximize our opportunities. Because iron is sharpening iron, for lack of a better term.

Mike Harrison

00:59:41.325 – 00:59:44.405

I have to hop off. I’m so sorry.

Brian Searl

00:59:44.565 – 00:59:50.545

No, that’s okay. Like, we’re at our time. So, like, does everybody have to go or does anybody want to stay and keep talking?

Mike Harrison

00:59:51.365 – 00:59:52.945

I got a 1 o’clock call.

Brian Searl

00:59:55.975 – 00:59:59.075

Always assume that everything else we say, Mike agrees with.

Scott Bahr

00:59:59.455 – 01:00:01.359

All right, we’ll throw his name around liberally.

Mike Harrison

01:00:01.407 – 01:00:04.155

And yeah, rubber stinks.

Brian Searl

01:00:06.535 – 01:00:12.235

I mean, like, you guys, can you guys stay for a few minutes or what do you want to do? I mean, I.

Scott Bahr

01:00:12.535 – 01:00:14.751

As long as the dog doesn’t tear. Apart the house,

Brian Searl

01:00:14.823 – 01:01:54.755

I don’t want to scare people. Right. And I know that some of this stuff that’s coming out of my mouth is scary.

And I know that there’s probably 80% plus majority of people who are like, you’re nuts. That is never going to happen at the speed that you think it’s going to happen at, but they’re forcing it on people.

Like, there was already a ton of pushback against Google AI overviews in May or April, and they took it away for two months and they made it better. And it’s more places than it’s Ever been before. And people are adopting this stuff and it’s working better. They’re finding easier answers.

Apple is putting this on their phones. The people who use Apple are the less tech savvy people, generally speaking. Certainly there are tech savvy people there who are weird. That’s.

I’m just going to say that out loud. Use Android. It’s better anyway. But like the mo.

The people who use Apple are generally speaking less tech savvy because they want things all in one package. Right. They don’t want to do all the hard things.

And they have just released like upgraded version of Siri where you can type in it and you can search just like Google and then you can get a fallback as ChatGPT and as people upgrade their Apple iPhones. Like this is a billion people who are never ever going to touch Google again, ever. Meta is building its own search engine.

ChatGPT has its own search engine. Like the amount of people in Google is going to fragment into 40,000 pieces so fast. Like it’s.

And I know, like, I get that it sounds nuts and you can’t process that, but that’s for sure going to happen next year.

Sandy Ellingson

01:01:55.215 – 01:02:31.309

Well, what I think is in technology, we’ve always had the bell curve, right.

And there’s always the guys that are on the bleeding edge, which is you, Brian, and then there’s the ones that are on the cutting edge, which is where I prefer to live because as a consultant working with clients, I don’t ever want to put them on the bleeding edge. And then you get to the top of the curve where you’re talking about, where you start reaching adoption.

I think the thing that we have to be aware of right now is that step from bleeding edge to mainstream adoption is getting shorter and shorter.

Brian Searl

01:02:31.477 – 01:02:40.857

Oh, it’s completely, it’s the same thing with Mike’s example of hotel keys. Right. It took 40 years to adopt hotel keys, but if every hotel the next day had digital keys.

Sandy Ellingson

01:02:41.001 – 01:02:41.473

Right.

Brian Searl

01:02:41.569 – 01:02:49.705

The adoption would have been straight line. And that’s what they’re doing to you. They’re forcing AI in front of you in your speech, in the devices that you already have.

Sandy Ellingson

01:02:49.785 – 01:03:25.353

Yeah. And where earlier today you were saying, I don’t think the parks have time to ramp up.

I think that speaks to this and your experience and perception for where you are. It’s true, AI is growing so fast. But what I, and, and so I do agree with that.

But I do think that we are out ahead of it enough for them to make at least some significant changes in their plans for 2025 to make a difference. And any change we make that positive positively impacts our bottom line is better than none.

Brian Searl

01:03:25.529 – 01:03:30.087

Like the biggest thing we’re talking about, forget about scary, the biggest thing we’re talking about is SEO.

Sandy Ellingson

01:03:30.241 – 01:03:43.147

Yeah, well.

And without podcasts like what you do and the efforts of other people, like what Scott does with his research, they really are out there all alone in a brand new landscape with no guidelines.

Brian Searl

01:03:43.211 – 01:04:06.919

Well, we’re going to change that. Scott and I are going to have a data call or data, like I don’t know if it’s going to be weekly, but something in, in 2025. Right.

Catchy name to be disclosed later. But in addition to the show. Right. And maybe I’ll do like, I’m going to do a lot more content and AI, you know, because I’ll have more time.

For reasons that will soon become clear to people Scott already knows.

Sandy Ellingson

01:04:07.007 – 01:04:39.045

But one thing that’s kind of funny, Brian, is, you know, you, even me though, I love technology. When you started this whole AI stuff a couple of years ago, it was a little frightening.

But because I continue to listen to you, I started, you know, adopting it. But now what’s so funny is that I use AI so much all day long that when I do go to the Google search, I’m trying to use. Yeah. It’s like I’m still trying to use that native language conversation and it’s not exactly the same. Right. I want it on Google

Brian Searl

01:04:39.745 – 01:08:37.523

and it will be there. Right? It will be there like Google’s. Again, I don’t know how good it’s going to be, but it’s going to be. It already is there. To be clear.

It’s almost every query except I think like the local businesses and some of the medical stuff and, and stuff like that. Right. But that’s going to quickly change. But like SEO, don’t be scared. Like SEO.

And here’s the thing, you can’t just call up your website designer who’s been designing your website for 12 bucks a month, or log into WIX and make SEO pretty. We’re not talking about stuffing keywords in here. We’re talking about building links.

We’re talking about building a brand, talking about schema markup on the back end. We’re not talking about like, yep, I’ve got Yoast SEO installed on your website. You’re good to go. No.

And if you don’t know what to ask your website developer, go to ChatGPT and say, I’m concerned about SEO in the age of AI. What are the five things that I need to make sure my website dev is doing for me?

And when you call them on the phone and four of those things, they’re like, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Fire them quickly because you don’t have time. But it’s all SEO because the AIs are crawling your website. They’re understanding all that.

And we’re not even talking about the crazy stuff yet. Right? But SEO is the number one thing that you must pay attention to on page and off page. SEO on page to get them to understand what you are.

Off page to get them to understand you’re important to the conversation. Both of them in tandem at the exact same time, ongoing. It never, ever stops. It’s not a.

I called my website dev and he did answer all the five questions, right? And he says, I’m good with SEO. And he’s done, no, never, never. I don’t know. And we’re not even talking about the crazy stuff yet. Scott.

Like, I mean, like, what I was trying to tell Mike is coming in January is agents that can operate your computer, they’ll literally be able to open the programs and do data entry and browse the Internet and plan trips for you. And one of the stated examples of tens of thousands it’s going to be able to do.

But the three marketable things that OpenAI said is coming is booking travel. It will be able to book travel for you.

So now imagine a world where the robot is going to your website and doesn’t care about the CTA you spent 55 hours agonizing over with your marketing person. Like, imagine the AI is doing all the research and the planning. Like, that is what we’re literally headed to in 2025.

And everybody’s not going to adopt it in 2025. I’m not saying that that’s going to be a longer curve, but the ability of people to start doing it is there.

And then what happens when the AI can go browse your website and go to campspot and fill in all the dates and come back to you and say, like, I know you. Like, you know, warm weather in the middle of summer.

So I’ve picked out this stay for you July 17th through the 19th in Oklahoma City, where you’ve never been before. Would you like me to book it? Sure.

Like, this changes booking windows. This changes behavior. This changes everything. This changes your dynamic pricing.

What happens when the AI, and it’s not going to happen next year, but in 2026 when the AI prompts you did. You want to book your trip again.

You want to book your camping trip for the winter or the summer in February, and then in February, it’s going to book. What happens to the dynamic pricing that isn’t really dynamic pricing in the reservation systems? They don’t have Disney dynamic pricing.

They don’t have hotel dynamic pricing. And even that’s going to be defeated.

But what happens when the AI figures out that it can book February 2 instead of February 5 to get a better price, and then all the AIs do it, and then you go manually adjust your price and in 10 seconds it’s like, I’ll just book February 7th instead. They didn’t get that date done. Like, this is big stuff. I’m so. I wasn’t even talking about the crazy stuff, even though it sounded crazy.

Sandy Ellingson

01:08:37.619 – 01:08:47.975

Yeah, it is. Hey, I do have to jump now, too, so it was great. I hope I wasn’t too, too much, too, too sparkly for you today.

Brian Searl

01:08:48.355 – 01:09:04.649

No, like, I mean, everything you say is always. I don’t, I don’t want to say always. Right. Because I’m not always correct. Go ahead, say things you say make sense.

Like, I was just trying to get to the, like, how do we make the biggest impact and then the littlest impact? All of which are important. So thank you.

Sandy Ellingson

01:09:04.777 – 01:09:06.725

Yep. All right, well, thank you, guys.

Scott Bahr

01:09:07.225 – 01:09:08.121

All right, take care.

Brian Searl

01:09:08.153 – 01:09:14.205

I don’t know if I have much more to say, Scott, but is there any data that you, like, wanted to cover and get out there that we haven’t talked about?

Scott Bahr

01:09:14.625 – 01:10:00.289

You know, I think, I think that the only thing, you know, in more general terms, just kind of thinking how people think about all this and when they think about their marketing, when they think about what they’re doing. I know I mentioned that earlier, but when, when, you know, in some of the stuff we’ve been.

Been looking at in terms of how people that, you know, the level of interest and how that’s changing is. Again, I can’t reinforce enough that a lot of the traditional terms that people use to. For searching are, are declining. Whereas the new. For example.

I know it’s a weird one. I’ll. But I’ll use this as an example. We’re seeing an upward trend in searches for forest bathing. Okay.

We all know that’s just hanging out in the woods, hanging out there, whatever. But forest bathing, it’s a new term like bathing.

Brian Searl

01:10:00.337 – 01:10:01.745

Like, like hot springs.

Scott Bahr

01:10:01.865 – 01:10:05.009

No, no, no, no, no, no. Where you just hang out in the woods and.

Brian Searl

01:10:05.057 – 01:10:05.705

Oh, okay.

Scott Bahr

01:10:05.785 – 01:10:06.329

Take it all out.

Brian Searl

01:10:06.377 – 01:10:10.025

Like, I’ve been to a cool hot spring in the middle of Alberta that was out near B.C.

Scott Bahr

01:10:10.145 – 01:11:02.765

Oh, I love the hot springs too. New Mexico. Anyway, but that’s, that’s a term that people are now using and it’s on, it’s on the rise. Volume’s still relatively low, but it’s rising.

And it’s, it’s terms like that take another term, say agritourism again didn’t even really exist 10 years ago. Now all of a sudden it’s rising, it’s, it’s, it’s increasing. Things like that are.

And I think that’s why I think it’s important for the campgrounds to one, make sure that they hire someone good to do their marketing and two, keep abreast of what’s going on out there. To use AI because AI is a great tool to go out there and figure out what’s going on. What are people doing? AI will tell you about forest bathing.

Brian Searl

01:11:03.635 – 01:11:37.885

But you know what it won’t do, and this is what scares me too a little bit, is we won’t have that data. We’re going to start to have like, we’re going to have the data from Google search for a while of how many people are looking for those keywords.

But are we going to have the data of how many people are asking long tail keywords that result in an answer about forest bathing or on ChatGPT or how many people even let alone type in forest bathing on ChatGPT? That data is going to be a black hole for a while. So that’s, it’s going to be tougher and tougher to uncover trends, still pay attention to them.

Everything you’re saying is right, but, but also right.

Scott Bahr

01:11:37.925 – 01:11:45.957

It’s gonna be. Yeah, yeah, you’re right though. It’s, it’s good. A lot of that will go away in the short term though. People should pay attention to that stuff.

Brian Searl

01:11:46.101 – 01:11:47.749

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.

Scott Bahr

01:11:47.917 – 01:11:54.533

Because you know, again, a few years ago I’d never heard of forest bathing until someone brought it up. We included it in some of our research and it’s like I’ve never heard.

Brian Searl

01:11:54.549 – 01:11:59.929

About it until you just brought it up today. Unless I was in a report that I didn’t read. That was my own report, but it’s.

Scott Bahr

01:12:00.057 – 01:12:28.475

So, but anyway, those things, you know, again, you know, we talked about the car camping thing.

Within that category, one of the fastest growing trends I’ve seen are people doing searches for the, the attachable tents to vehicles, not just rooftop, but the ones that you know, that attach to like the back and the campground that says no car camping. Now, now you have to think about this. It’s like it’s, it’s attached to the car. It’s a tent. Right. But it’s still attached.

Brian Searl

01:12:28.515 – 01:12:28.667

Yeah.

Scott Bahr

01:12:28.691 – 01:12:31.215

I mean, these are things that are.

Brian Searl

01:12:31.875 – 01:12:40.211

These restrictions, like I think Sandy was talking about, right. Like the no tent camping, no car camping that you’re talking about too. These are, these are another conversation.

Scott Bahr

01:12:40.403 – 01:12:40.811

Absolutely.

Brian Searl

01:12:40.843 – 01:12:48.375

Right. Like, like, look at all these people who are like, if your RV is more than 10 years old, you can’t come stay with me. Do you want to go broke?

Scott Bahr

01:12:49.555 – 01:12:50.011

Right.

Brian Searl

01:12:50.083 – 01:13:06.335

Like, really, is it like, I mean, I get it at the really, really high end luxury resorts, but at some point, like, especially if the economy continues to decline and people stop buying new RVs, at some point they’re going to be 11 years old. What do you, what’s your plan?

Scott Bahr

01:13:07.235 – 01:13:07.667

Right.

Brian Searl

01:13:07.731 – 01:13:52.965

Like, like, obviously you have to have standards, but you’re going to have to start relaxing and rethinking some of these rigid rules that you’ve all put in. Like, I mean, again, we’ll look at, we’ll call out the Facebook groups. Right? All the people.

Like, not all the people, because most owners don’t do this. Right.

But you see the posts that come out once in a while about the, you know, I don’t know, electric vehicle charging, for example, which obviously is a problem that needs solved. You can’t like lose money on electricity. There’s a whole can of worms unpacked there. Right.

But generally speaking, the people are like, I just refuse to let people have electric cars in my park. Like, you’re just literally signing your own death warrant is all you’re doing. And why, why is this the hill that you want to die on?

Scott Bahr

01:13:54.105 – 01:14:11.795

Yeah. To what end? To what end exactly?

Like, again, why would you, you know, again with the, the RV thing, you know, there are people out there that do that, go out and purposely get old RVs and, and, and, you know, retrofit them and, and you know, there’s entire clubs of these types of RVs if you.

Brian Searl

01:14:11.915 – 01:14:14.899

And there are very few places to go, by the way.

Scott Bahr

01:14:15.027 – 01:15:02.079

Yeah. So opportunity, it’s kind of like, yeah, don’t shoot yourself in the foot. Maybe there’s parts of the market you can still peel off.

I know that you know something, I know the reasoning behind it, but also it’s like they need to be smart about it. And these, some of these car campers have.

One of the things, one of the data points we know is that the people who do car camping now about, I don’t know, 70% of them have aspirations to actually purchase like an RV. So they’re in their cars now.

They do it in many cases for financial reasons and flexibility, but they’d like to have an RV to stay in, to have more space, to have more amenities. So why shoot yourself in the foot by turning them away now? And because, you know, like, again, again.

Brian Searl

01:15:02.127 – 01:15:32.735

Nobody’S saying you can’t have standards. Like, nobody’s saying you have to let in the Rusty Pontiac from 1968. Right, right.

You can have standards, but why, if they’re going to come and be respectful of your property and set up a nice looking tent that they spent $600 on from REI and like, right. Like if they’re outdoorsy and they have all the gear and they’re neat and they’re clean and they take care of the lawn and, and don’t trample.

Why would you not want to charge them money and take their business?

Scott Bahr

01:15:32.895 – 01:15:34.275

They’re good guests.

Brian Searl

01:15:35.455 – 01:16:06.887

And I don’t even understand the common refrain. Like, I mean, again, I get the, I don’t even. Where does that even come from? The ten year old policy?

Like, was there really that many people on the road who were just like, I get it, you don’t want to look at a rusty old school bus just like the rusty old Pontiac. Right. But I think most people take care of their possessions for the most part.

And how many people, like, the justification we hear from owners all the time is like, my guests don’t want to look at that. Really? How many of them have told you that? Are you sure it’s not just you who doesn’t want to look at that?

Scott Bahr

01:16:07.071 – 01:16:19.375

Right. Or is it one person says something? Yeah, you know. Yeah. Is it just anecdotal? Does it become. Yeah, yeah.

I, I honestly don’t know where it comes from, but probably, it’s, it’s probably instances like that.

Brian Searl

01:16:19.455 – 01:17:20.855

We should ask Chad GPT after the call and figure it out. But where does this come from? Why is it there?

But yeah, I mean, I, you just have to reframe your entire thinking and whether that’s Gen Z or the people you’re trying to reach through car camping or glamping, or the people who are just coming to fish in Oklahoma City or black folks camp too, or like you’ve got to think about this stuff and you have an assistant who you can just go now and type in and say like, hey, I’m interested in reaching traditional people like black people or Gen Z or Asian people or whoever. Like Whoever it is. Right.

I want to be more inclusive at my campground of young, old, black, white, male, female families, kids, single travelers, traveling nurses, whatever. How do I deploy this to this specific type of people? And then this one and then this one.

And it will answer you, you don’t have to spend hours studying this anymore. Is it going to be a perfect answer? No. You should still go take the course that black folks can’t do.

Scott Bahr

01:17:21.475 – 01:17:22.419

Absolutely.

Brian Searl

01:17:22.587 – 01:17:26.695

For sure. I would invite everyone chatgpt as a starting point.

Scott Bahr

01:17:27.515 – 01:17:39.535

Yep. And there’s again, the opportunity is there.

People just have to work for it a little bit more, be a little bit smarter, listen and ask a ton of questions.

Brian Searl

01:17:41.455 – 01:17:47.367

Nobody’s been forced into that yet. Right. I think this is. This economy is about to force people into, though. Shit. What do I do?

Scott Bahr

01:17:47.511 – 01:17:56.119

Right. You start learning now, but now is the time before. Before it becomes urgent in a crisis. The time is now.

Brian Searl

01:17:56.287 – 01:17:59.111

All right. I should probably get to work and you should probably get to work or something.

Scott Bahr

01:17:59.303 – 01:18:01.111

I go take care of a dog, so.

Brian Searl

01:18:01.223 – 01:18:24.655

Yeah, that’s a big responsibility. I don’t even know where my dog is. She’s so quiet and little, but okay. Thank you, Scott. I appreciate it.

We still have lots of viewers on here, so it’s interesting to see what we do in 2025. Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas.

I’m sure we’ll talk to you again, Scott, and to everybody on our next week’s show, but appreciate you joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. And we’ll see you next week, guys.

Scott Bahr

01:18:24.815 – 01:18:26.875

All right, take care, everybody. Bye.

Speaker A

01:18:28.015 – 01:18:48.895

This episode of MC Fireside Chats with your host, Brian Searl. Have a suggestion for a show idea? Want your campground or company in a future episode?

Email [email protected] get your daily dose of news from ModernCampground.com and be sure to join us next week for more insights into the fascinating world of outdoor hospitality.