MC Fireside Chats – August 12th, 2026

[00:00:45] Brian Searl: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name’s Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground, and by the only plant I could find real quick, ’cause it’s raining outside and I had to come inside and couldn’t do the show in my normal outdoor hospitality setting. Uh, but we’re here excited back, uh, for another episode with a couple of our recurring guests that are, uh, excited to have join us.

Zach Stoltenberg is here. Uh, Tom Mason’s a new recurring guest from IVEE for this week. Welcome, Tom. I’ll have everybody introduce themselves in a second. Scott Foos has been missing for, like, I don’t know, a couple years. Popped out, and, like, have you been… What have you been doing, Scott? Were you, like, in Asia or something, like, got your head down?

Are you s- been working, or what’s been going on? 

[00:01:19] Scott Foos: Working, uh, yes, working, traveling, two young kids on summer break. Uh, it’s, life’s been busy, but I’m really glad to be here. 

[00:01:28] Brian Searl: Well, we’re excited to have you back too. Uh, Jayne Cohen, recurring guest. Chris Lambert from Streamside, uh, uh, Parks is, uh, one of our, uh, special guests this week.

Uh, and we’ve got Kaleigh, who’s a, I think you’re, you’re a new recurring guest, too, right, Kaleigh? 

[00:01:40] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. 

[00:01:41] Brian Searl: Yeah, okay. All right. See, they don’t tell me anything. I just show up and I talk, and I, I can’t even say I look pretty, ’cause I don’t do that, obviously. You’re all looking at this. Um, but okay, so let’s go around and briefly introduce ourselves.

[00:01:51] Zach Stoltenberg: Zach, do you wanna start? 

Sure. Uh, Zach Stoltenberg. I’m with LJA Engineering. I’m an architect, and then we specialize in helping people design, plan, permit, and then title glamping and campground projects all over the country and, and in some other countries too. 

[00:02:11] Brian Searl: Welcome, Zach. Whoever wants to go next

[00:02:16] Tom Mason: I’ll go next. Uh, Tom Mason with IVEE Management, and, uh, we are a third-party management company, uh, operating parks all across the United States, and we’ve been doing it since 2017, and I head up the organization. 

[00:02:33] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Tom. Scott? 

[00:02:36] Scott Foos: Hey, yeah. I’m Scott Foos. I’m with Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.

We’re a full service hospitality management firm and professional services, uh, provider for the outdoor hospitality industry. We, uh, we work with, with, uh, with properties nationwide, and, um, have, have been, I’ve been in the industry since 2005, and, um, happy to, to, to be here. 

[00:03:01] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Scott, as always.

Uh, Kaleigh? 

[00:03:04] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. Hi, my name’s Kaleigh Day. Uh, my husband and I own and operate Surf Junction Campground out in Ucluelet, BC. We bought it back in… We bought it back in 2012 and have been running it ever since. Um, and yeah, that’s pretty much it. We also have…

We also have a surf school as well. 

[00:03:25] Brian Searl: Welcome. Appreciate you being here. Uh, Chris, you wanna go?

Release Chris?

I know it’s frozen I think, I think Chris is frozen for me, so Jayne, are you there too? 

[00:03:41] Jayne Cohen: I am here but I’m having problems with my camera. But I’m Jayne Cohen from, I’m the CEO of Campground Consulting Group, and, uh, based out of the East Coast. 

[00:03:52] Brian Searl: Welcome, Jayne. I’m having problems with my camera too. For whatever reason I look like this, so just kind of ignore that for this week.

Um, but okay. So what, so typically what we do is we start this kind of episode, we’ll turn to our recurring guests. So, uh, Kaleigh and Tom are new. Uh, you can contribute certainly too, Zach, Scott- 

[00:04:08] Jayne Cohen: Hi … 

[00:04:08] Brian Searl: uh, and Jayne. 

[00:04:09] Jayne Cohen: Hello. 

[00:04:10] Brian Searl: Is there anything that’s been, uh, coming across your desk in the last month since we’ve been together on this show that you guys think we should be talking about or discussing?

No? Everybody’s gonna be quiet at the same time? 

[00:04:22] Kaleigh Day: No. 

[00:04:24] Zach Stoltenberg: I always like to hear what other people are, are seeing before I pipe in 

[00:04:30] Brian Searl: All right, Scott, what have you been seeing? You’ve been missing for a couple months in action here. What have you been seeing as you’ve traveled around and been managing client parks and- 

[00:04:37] Scott Foos: Yeah

[00:04:37] Brian Searl: you can talk about your kids if you want, but I think the parks is probably more interesting to our audience. 

[00:04:42] Scott Foos: Pr- pr- probably this audience, yeah. Um, yeah. Well, one of the things that, uh, that I’ve been, or that we’ve been noticing as, as a firm has been, um, you know, folks have obviously been talking about, um, the, uh, the fact that transient business is, is down, extended stay business is, is strengthening.

You know, that’s, I think, I think everybody here probably knows that has, has, has heard of that. Um, but I think what’s interesting to me is seeing that, uh, a lot of the underwriting that was done in the COVID boom, in the COVID years ’21, ’23, um, you know, hasn’t materialized for, for many people that, that were buyers in that timeframe.

And we’re coming up on a lot of five-year hold patterns and, um, for investors. And I think, I think it’s interesting to see, um, folks that have been, uh, operators, um, that have been, uh, attempting to, to, to drive additional seasonal and extended stay business, um, and kinda the reversion back in many ways to what the industry, um, was in terms of that split of demographics, uh, pre-COVID, and some of the ways that different operators, um, are, are attracting those guests.

And, and, um, and further to, to, I think the point that’s interesting to me is seeing many people that are trying to do… attract both types of, of guests at the same time, and not really having a lot of intention behind how they’re attracting transient versus extended stay guests and, and I think leaving some guests feeling a bit, uh, underwhelmed on both ends of the spectrum.

Um, so I know this is, uh, supposed to be a bit more, uh, guest experience, uh, focused, but I think that trend, um, is something that, that’s, that’s tracking now, and I’m curious if others in, in this space that are in the… uh, on this panel that are in the, the management or, or acquisition side are, are seeing some of that, that same thing.

[00:06:53] Tom Mason: Well, Scott, you and I are in the same, same world, so I agree with your, you know, what the trend has been, downward transient, upward extended stay, long-term stay. Uh, and if you made that shift, you know, say last year, were able to make some of that shift last year, your pr- your benef- we’re… You can benefit because you’re, you, you filled the park with more long-term stays.

Uh, and whatever transient’s coming in, if you, in theory, kinda shrunk your park, you’d maybe be able to scrape away a few extra bucks- In ADR because you have fewer sites available for transient. So that’s, uh, that’s a trend that I don’t see changing too much in the near future. Uh, but going back to your comment about, you know, during COVID and underwriting not meeting, uh, the requirements, that then takes you to the next phase, what happens to those parks?

And, uh, I’m starting to see some of that, um, pressure be placed on the owners who went through that process three, four years ago. The banks are now beginning to ask questions. 

[00:08:07] Brian Searl: I was, I was commenting on this to Scott Bahr this morning in a chat, and I just said kind of anecdotally, like, “I feel like I’m getting a whole lot more emails of parks that are for sale in the last couple weeks.”

So- And I don’t know if we have a directly, direct correlation, but it must in some way, right? 

[00:08:23] Kaleigh Day: So long-term overall, ’cause I’m kind of in a pretty, you know, uh, zoomed in space, right? I have my bubble, and we have, like, the Vancouver Island tourism, which is, I think, a bit different from, like, the RV parks around the States for the most part.

So it sounds like long-term, uh, stays are down, are declining

[00:08:45] Brian Searl: I think long-term stays are stable mostly and transient is declining, right? Is that fair? 

[00:08:50] Scott Foos: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s fair. And, you know, I think you look back at, um, you know, w- uh, just my own personal, uh, uh, experience in this specific situation, and I think, you know, others would, would have similar paths. But clients that were acquiring properties in 2020, ’21, ’22 with the thesis that transient demand is, is, is growing and booming and, um, uh, many properties had a high level of seasonal or extended stay, uh, occupants pre-COVID.

Yeah. And, and that, you know, they, they were able to capitalize on that for a short period of time, but now we’re, you know, certainly the last few years we’ve been reverting back. And so then the entire investment thesis for the most part is, um, is out the window. And so figuring out how to , how to make it work in a, in a very different environment is, um, i- is I think something that one of the reasons, Brian, why you’re seeing, we’re seeing more properties coming onto the market 

[00:09:52] Brian Searl: Well, here’s the, here’s the, here’s a question I have.

Are we actually reverting or are we just reverting in RV? Because there’s a whole lot of demand out there that I see for people going-

[00:10:00] Zach Stoltenberg: I would say- … 

[00:10:01] Brian Searl: camping and glamping and everything else, right? 

[00:10:03] Scott Foos: So specifically I’m talking RV.

[00:10:05] Zach Stoltenberg: If I were to weigh in.

[00:10:05] Scott Foos: Yeah. 

[00:10:06] Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah. On, on my side, on the design side, um, I think we’re seeing similar trends, but different decisions being made.

Um, so y- as an example, we’re working with an operator right now, uh, with a site down in Texas that made a decision, I don’t know, four or five years ago, um, to put in RV sites. Uh, wanting to take advantage of that push, uh, that high transient market. Um, they put in I think about 50 sites, uh, at, at one of the properties, and it never really materialized.

Um, location is tough. It’s on a lake. It’s a beautiful property on a lake. Um, but, y- you know, the, the demand just wasn’t there for RV. Uh, they shared with me, they said really the only time the RV has paid off, uh, there was a new factory being built, uh, a few miles away from their location, and there was a whole bunch of workers.

They came in to build that, I think it was a, a automotive factory or something, or battery plant or something. But, um, she said, “Yeah, we were full for about nine months. Um, and then they finished construction and all the workers left.” Um, and so now we’re working with them to revamp that section and we’re looking at, uh, converting some of those to modular or park built, uh, park model cabins.

Uh, some of them we’re just gonna scrap altogether and, and have a little more open space, a big communal area between several sites. Um, and they are very interested in pushing into glamping and some alternative units, uh, because in their market, the, the demand drivers that they’re seeing are people that wanna come to the lake, families, kids, uh, fishermen is a big market for them.

Um, and so we’re looking at more stick-built and modular cabins, some unique glamping structures. Um, and then really the other thing that I’m, I’m seeing or we’re seeing on our end, a, a push, a trend across outdoor hospitality right now is really to groups and families. Um, so larger units or, or, you know, larger homes that maybe you can accommodate 12 to 14, 16 people in.

Um, and ADRs for those can be really, really high because usually you’re, you’re splitting it amongst three or four families. You know, if you looked at a 16-person unit, uh, $1,200 for a night, that’s, you know, for four families, that’s $200 a family. You could stay in a regular hotel for that. Um, and so that’s, that’s another trend that we’re seeing is really chasing groups, uh, specifically families and kids and, and people pivoting away from that transient RV and converting those sites into something that maybe is a little more stable, a little bit more in demand, or might have a higher ADR

[00:13:06] Scott Foos: Yeah, I, I, I think that, that really resonates and, and I think when we look at fr- uh, when we look at the different stay types between RV and lodging, and Brian you- You, you, you br- brought up a great point, that lodging overall is continuing to perform well, outperforming this year specifically, but has been trending in that way for some time.

And I think, Zach, to your point, you know, we, we resonate with that, that a lot of folks that have stayed in, in traditional hotel, uh, offerings understand the unique benefits now that booking, you know, a pod of cabins together with that communal space, but having shared, having separate s- shared but separate spaces as well, or the larger homes, it, it really resonates.

But then on the RV side too, I think maybe go back to what Kaleigh’s doing with, with her us. But I mean, those, those RV destinations that are very specific on experiences and destination markets, that are building experiences not just as a revenue line item, but to truly solve needs for their guests, are performing well.

I mean, I don’t know Kaleigh’s business, but I’m sure it’s performing well because they’re very intentional with where they are. Kaleigh, does that, does that track with what you’re seeing? 

[00:14:22] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. Our RV section’s just full year round, but we’re on this, um, RV rental, Europeans flying into Calgary, getting the RVs, doing the Rockies.

They kind of end where we are and then go to fly out of Vancouver. So we have this stream of RV rentals, and so they book early. They, um, they’re great. They’re, we have a huge number of Europeans that come out here, um, and like Canada is a big hot ticket item for them. And especially in the last couple of years, um, last like three or four it’s really taken off again.

Um, ’cause obviously it dipped during COVID. Uh, but yeah, so we haven’t really seen that. That’s why it’s like I’m so zoomed in. It’s like interesting hearing the trends, um, everywhere else, uh, because- Mm-hmm … we’re kind of just like a, a set. Um, yeah. We haven’t really, we don’t see those trends too, too much.

Um, but there is definitely a different-

[00:15:18] Brian Searl: Well, I don’t think we’ve seen it in, in a large part of Canada overall, right, Kaleigh? Like I, I mean I’m in Calgary, but like I, I talk to Cara all the time. Cara Csizmadia’s on the show once a month from the Canadian Camping and RV Council, and like I think we’ve benefited greatly from the Canadians staying home from going south for whatever reason they might be doing that.

[00:15:36] Kaleigh Day: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:15:37] Brian Searl: Uh, we won’t get into that today, but like we’ve- 

[00:15:40] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. … 

[00:15:40] Brian Searl: benefited from that. And so I, I think there’s maybe something coming that might be a little bit of a downturn for, let’s just call it the macro level in Canada in the next- 

[00:15:47] Kaleigh Day: Yeah … 

[00:15:47] Brian Searl: one or two years if the economy doesn’t fix itself, but I think parks that are in your position may be insulated somewhat from that.

[00:15:53] Kaleigh Day: And, and we also, camping thrives, you know, when the cost of living goes up. So, um- Mm-hmm … that’s like another thing right now. It’s like a lot of, more people are camping. We’re one of the more affordable, uh, accommodations in our area. So right now tenting, a lot of family, it’s their first time camping.

They’ll borrow some gear and they come and camp with us, but they don’t have any experience camping. We aren’t- Typical campers. So it’s been interesting, um, because, you know, hotels and everything, the costs are just starting to go up and up and up. So, like, they typically would have rented the cabins or whatever, but now, um, so our shoulder season for camping is starting to get busier and busier is what we’re finding. Um-

[00:16:34] Brian Searl: But that, that goes back to the guest experience. Like, I was talking to, I think it’s Jamie Scott, who’s the leader of the BC Provincial Association- 

[00:16:40] Kaleigh Day: Mm-hmm … 

[00:16:41] Brian Searl: a few weeks ago, and I think I mentioned it on this show, but he was talking about there was a, a campground on Vancouver Island that was trying to go for RVs, and they weren’t really full, and he talked them into converting to tents, and now they’re just

They can’t, they have waiting lists that are so long because everybody is willing to come over from Vancouver. 

[00:16:57] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. 

[00:16:57] Brian Searl: Millions of people sitting right there that can cross the ferry, but didn’t have an RV. And so it’s all goes back to this where the show is kind of about guest experience, right? It’s am I measuring what my guest wants versus what the demand is versus what they can afford versus all the intangibles, right?

[00:17:10] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. 

[00:17:10] Brian Searl: And if you can figure out, then, like, on a macro level, I think there’s a whole lot of success still to be had in our industry. 

[00:17:17] Kaleigh Day: Yeah, I think so. Especially with where, um, where we live, there’s a ferry that goes from the mainland of, um, Canada out to the island, and that, the cost is starting to get, just go through the roof.

So now it’s like, especially if you’re in a trailer or RV. So that’s something that really impacts. Mm-hmm. That’s why the Europeans, for them, they’re like a shoo-in ’cause it’s their big vacation, right? But a lot more local BC or wherever Canadians, if you will, are starting to forego their trailers and their motor homes ’cause the cost, the gas, ferry, and then the si- the RV sites are a lot more expensive as well.

So a lot more people here where we are are starting to go back to camping, or tenting, sorry. 

[00:17:59] Brian Searl: Chris, do we have you back now? 

[00:18:01] Chris Lambert: Yes, I apologize. I don’t know why my WiFi went out. Um, Chris Lambert- 

[00:18:04] Brian Searl: That’s okay … 

[00:18:05] Chris Lambert: CEO of, uh, Streamside Parks. Happy to be here. Um, been in the industry about three years now, so I’m the newbie.

Uh, excited to learn and, uh, and connect with everybody on the call, so. 

[00:18:14] Brian Searl: So well, newbie, tell us about Streamside Parks now that we have you back, just in case 

[00:18:18] Chris Lambert: we have to get rid of you again. Yeah, we’ve grown fast. I’ve been with them three years, and when I started we had seven parks, and now we’re, uh, pushing 40. So- 

[00:18:27] Kaleigh Day: Oh, wow …

[00:18:27] Chris Lambert: we’ve expanded pretty quickly. Um, but I, I think it’s, it’s a, I have a big, um, hospitality background in restaurant management specifically, so it’s all people business. We’re just, uh, in the lodging and, uh, RV business instead of putting pasta on a plate and making people smile. So, um, there’s a lot of related things there.

[00:18:49] Brian Searl: So as you listen to the conversations that we’ve been having in the first few minutes of the show, you are still a net acquirer of parks, as you just said. What, what kinda goes through your head when you’re hearing all these conversations? 

[00:18:59] Chris Lambert: Yeah, I, I, I think it’s specialization and, and understanding nuance.

I think, you know, there’s, were some, some trends we could ride previously, but now I think we have to really dig and look at each park level, regional level, as it relates to what the guest experience and what the, the, you know, the market can give us. But then also on the, on the macro level, what can we do fundamentally, you know, as a portfolio, some key deliverables that we can focus on to, uh, to m- make your a, gu- guest, great guest experience.

Um, and then so, you know, that’s, that’s where, uh, that’s what I enjoy is, is kinda getting under the hood on developing our team and finding great people and great leaders, uh, kind of building a culture, um, of people first. And, um, and, uh, it’s been really well received and I’ve just really embraced, uh, the RV industry as well, so.

[00:19:51] Brian Searl: So what makes Streamside a little bit different? What are you guys trying to accomplish for those that don’t know you?

[00:19:55] Chris Lambert: Um, I, I think, um, for us we’re, you know, we’re a house of brands, not a branded house approach. So, you know, where we want to make sure the park level dynamic is first and then Streamside is second.

So we’re not pushing down this corporate… We’re not a McDonald’s, we’re not a franchise model. We’re looking at what makes that park specifically unique, what’s the history, what’s the legacy, what’s the, the local interactions, and, and build and add support to that. So I think that’s, that’s part of it. And, and also for me being the operational leader, it’s about people.

Um, you know, that, that’s what makes these ticks, you know? Um, you, you can, you can live and die by that sword, but, um, but I think a lot of it is just having the right people at the right place doing the right things. 

[00:20:41] Brian Searl: So how do you end up as COO at Streamside? What’s your story? 

[00:20:45] Chris Lambert: So started with, uh, restaurants when I was 15 and didn’t leave them.

Um, and so, you know, as kids were getting older, I wanted more of a, a different change. Um, met John, the, the founder and CEO, um, and, uh, we, we really had a really good relationship and, um, was able to… So again, you know, he kind of told me to hold on, but, uh, didn’t realize we were gonna grow as fast as we, we have.

But, um, but it’s not about, I think, number of parks as much as quality of parks and, and, uh, and really understanding the challenges, the nuances of each one. Um, so, you know, that’s a little bit about my background. A, a, a lot… I’m a tent camper, so it’s glad to hear the tents coming back. Uh, um, hopefully I’ll be coming around that trend.

Um, but, you know, I think a lot of it is I love the outdoors, I love people, I love solving problems, taking care of people. So that’s what makes me happy.

[00:21:41] Brian Searl: You’re, you’re gonna make me ask all the questions? Nobody has anything else to say? Yeah, it’s quiet.

[00:21:46] Tom Mason: Well, welcome to our world, uh-

[00:21:48] Chris Lambert: It’s your show … 

[00:21:48] Tom Mason: Chris. Chris, welcome to our world, and if you ever need, I don’t know, Scott and I and you are kind of doing a lot of the same things, so feel free to reach out if you have questions.

[00:22:00] Chris Lambert: Yep will do 

[00:22:01] Tom Mason: I would feel the same

[00:22:05] Brian Searl: All right, what else is going on in the world? We’re talking about guest experience on the show today. What else is, uh- What else is new? Because I, because I think, like, as we have this conversation, as we talk about some of the things that on a macro level, obviously there are micro successes, on a macro level, transient RV specifically might be having a, a temporary issue that, I don’t know, who, who knows how long that’s gonna go on, right?

I’m of a provincial mindset. I don’t think we’re ever gonna sell as many RVs as we did in 2019 ever again. But I, I don’t know if I’m right or wrong. I still think there’s a very bright future for outdoor hospitality. But I think it all goes down to that guest experience. I think there’s been a, and again, I’m saying this on a macro level, right?

Uh, there are certainly tons of micro example successes that we could talk about. I think on a macro level, many people who have run RV parks in the last 60 years have had to do very little thinking about the guest experience. And Scott, you’ve been in, in the industry for a long time. You can maybe talk to that too, but, but what I mean by that is not that you don’t care about your guests.

They do. But that most people who have been your typical RV park guest for the last 60 years have wanted the same thing. They’ve wanted the parking lot with the miniature golf course and maybe the swimming pool and a little camp store where they can buy some goods and take their grandkids for the weekend or whatever else, and the expectation hasn’t changed, so they haven’t had to diagnose the guest experience.

Is that fair, Scott, or am I way off base? 

[00:23:24] Scott Foos: No, I, I, I think that’s, I think that’s absolutely fair. I think that, you know, um, the industry and expectations have been, uh, evolving and those demands have been, uh, evolving, uh, you know, for some time. But I certainly think that, uh, in today’s economy, um, and post-COVID, and with the emerging, um, you know, Gen Z and millennial becoming, uh, demographic becoming even more of a going concern in our industry, uh, like all things, that, that has to shift and evolve.

And, and I think what we see is properties, are properties trying to, to be both things without doing either of them really well. Mm. And it’s not so much knowing your guest. I mean, of course it’s important to know your, know your guest. Um, but it’s, it’s really in, in, in understanding how to double down and offer the right amenities and the right experience, the right programming for each of, each of your demographic types.

And sp- if we keep it kinda macro right now and, and focus on RV, transient versus extended stay, um, you know, I think that they require very different, very different approaches. And we’re seeing properties that had been acquired with the goal of acqui- of, of paring down seasonal and growing transient with operators that haven’t been in the space, um, or you know, uh, just don’t have a lot of experience at all in hospitality, not just in RV, um, try to, try to successfully now rebuild a program that was maybe there before, um, is they’re having a difficult time without really knowing what the guests are looking for.

And it’s, it, it’s, it’s more structural in how the investment thesis was underwritten and how that property can be supported financially and with enough patience on the capital side to be able to achieve those goals. And I think, not to go back to the point about the five-year hold, but many investors acquire properties with five, seven-year holds.

We’re coming up against that, and so patience is, is running out. And, um, I think there’s gonna be a lot of opportunity for folks that can understand how to double down on those experiences for those different types of guests moving forward to, uh, to potentially acquire properties to really get more specific about the actual experience they’re trying to, to build.

[00:26:12] Brian Searl: Does the math work on all of these parks that were acquired, though? ‘Cause I remember reading a, I was reading a, uh, I can’t remember. It was a Facebook post in a, in one of, maybe it was Kep’s group, either this morning or yesterday. They were talking about a 30, 40-site RV park and how that may not be mathematically possible to run and with today’s interest rates and today’s expenses and today’s inflation with the staff that you need and all the, and all the things.

Jayne, what do you think of it? Does that make ma- mathematically sense with the types of properties that are trying to succeed in 2026? 

[00:26:39] Jayne Cohen: Yes. I, I, I think that, uh, unless, um, you’re gonna be a true, like, mom-and-pop type of operation, which there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, um, you gotta get into that, like, 200, 250 site number to really, uh, make the numbers make sense.

And it’s really a very simple calculation, uh, you know, if you’re gonna acquire a park or you’re gonna build a park, just back of the envelope kinda numbers is looking at, you know, what can a site, what does a site gross, right? What’s the gross of, of, uh, if you’re buying a campground and you’re gonna build a campground and you do your comps, what is the, what do you think each site can gross?

And if you just simply say, “Well, if I’m grossing, let’s make it easy, if I can gross 10,000 a year, but I’m paying 100,000 a site,” right? Or, “It’s gonna cost me 100 grand a site to build, but I, my gross is 10,” then I’ve gotta sit there for 10 years. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of what Scott just said, you know?

You, you’ve gotta prepare to, to hold that asset. And, um, what’s happened now is with interest rates staying high, right? And maybe even getting higher, I, I don’t know, I don’t have a crystal ball, um, a lot of people when they get to the five-year mark, their note is about to adjust. So if they had a lower interest rate, or it has adjusted, but if they have a low interest rate or a lower interest rate and they’re adjusting now, chances are their interest rates are gonna go up, and that, that really hurts.

Uh, and, and that’s… We’re starting to see that. Uh, I don’t know if anyone else is starting to see that, but we’re starting to see those interest rates now being called and going up, and some are having to put some capital in. Um, some of the syndicated models are, you know, asking investors for more capital, that type of thing.

So not, not, you know, doom and gloom, it’s just financial… This is just financials You know, operationally the park might be performing, but the interest rates and the outs- outside of that is, is difficult. Is a difficult scenario. 

[00:29:27] Tom Mason: Jayne, in addition to that, your insurance cost in ma- in almost every park has- 

[00:29:32] Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm

[00:29:33] Tom Mason: doubled, tripled, uh, you know, in, in, in a lot of markets. So between the interest rate increases, the revenue not materializing- Mm-hmm … as the underwritten, underwriting indicated, and then other pressures. You can even use property tax. Property taxes have increased as well. Yeah. And insurance, that’s added additional pressure on operators to find savings while labor continues to go up- 

[00:30:01] Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm

and our rate, you know, rates are soggy and, you know, they’re not just… You know, we’re going extended stay, which, you know, doesn’t- 

 Which lowers your ADR … 

[00:30:12] Tom Mason: maybe over the course of a year. Yeah, but over a course of a year, maybe you generate more revenue, but, you know, it’s a, it’s a pressure that, uh, exists at, at many parks across the US I think now.

[00:30:25] Jayne Cohen: You’re right, Tom, and it’s not… To be honest, it’s not just insurance that’s going up. We’re actually starting to see a little leveling in insurance, but it’s still very high. It’s like everything’s going up, right? Yeah. Electricity’s going up. Um, cost of labor is going up. Even trying to- Yeah … find labor is difficult, and when you do find them, it’s going up even more because you’re, you know, you’re inflating it just to get that person so they won’t work at McDonald’s, right? I mean- 

[00:30:55] Tom Mason: Right. Right … 

[00:30:56] Jayne Cohen: it’s, it’s, it’s crazy and, um, and a lot of parks are, they’re at their rate height. Do you know what I mean? They can’t… Their, their rates are high, and they can’t push the rate anymore because we are seeing campers having rate resistance, right? We came off of COVID, and you could kinda do whatever you wanted in COVID.

Push your rates high, but now people are reacting to rates is what I’m finding. Um, and so those- Mm-hmm … of us that are yielding, which I’m a big believer in dynamic pricing or yielding, it’s, uh, it’s really a science. Like, you’ve gotta be aware of it. 

[00:31:45] Tom Mason: But, uh, you know, listen to that- 

[00:31:46] Zach Stoltenberg: So I have a question … 

[00:31:47] Tom Mason: I wanna bring back just real quick, um, the, the idea, and I think, uh, Chris brought it up, and, uh, you know, Scott and I believe in it.

It’s about the people, and if you hire the right people, you can create the right culture at the park, and the experience is the customer will enjoy it, and that will help that park, um, immensely, you know? And you’re al- we’re always looking for the individual that has the skillsets on the HR side, customer relations, employee relations to create that environment that employees wanna be there, the guests wanna be there.

It’s a, it’s a good environment. All the other factors, you know, are ownership issues. Those are the things we deal with, you know, managing that, that process. Mm-hmm. So, but I, I kinda wanna bring it back. It’s, it’s really finding the right individual or individuals at a park that can, uh, make it an experience that the customer loves.

[00:32:44] Kaleigh Day: I think, uh- 

[00:32:44] Brian Searl: I wanna go to in a- 

[00:32:46] Kaleigh Day: Oh, sorry … 

[00:32:46] Brian Searl: or Kaleigh in a second, but just, uh, I thought Zach was gonna say something too before. But Tom- 

[00:32:49] Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah … 

[00:32:50] Brian Searl: my question is, is, like, is, is the staff member enough in 2026? Is it enough to just have an excellent staff member, or do you need something else? 

[00:32:57] Tom Mason: No, no. Yeah, but that’s, if you don’t have that, everything else- Right, that’s, you know, 

[00:33:01] Brian Searl: that’s fair

[00:33:01] Tom Mason: doesn’t even matter. 

[00:33:01] Brian Searl: Okay. 

[00:33:02] Tom Mason: Yeah. 

[00:33:03] Jayne Cohen: This is a people business. Well- This is a people business. This is a hospitality business. I’ve been in this business since, for 51 years, and I recognized that when we first bought our first park, and it is, it is people centric. I mean, that’s the focus, and the real focus, the successful operators are the ones that can increase their repeat and referral business.

That’s the win game. Because if you always have to find a new guest, that’s the tough thing to do. So I always tell my staff, or used to tell my staff, “Shame on us.” If we, if we get them to our door or get them to ring our phone or get them to our website and we blow it at that point, shame on us. Because the hardest thing we had to do was get that first contact with them.

After that, we got, we gotta do a good enough job to keep them in our web. Um, and that’s the name of the game. I think that’s the winning recipe in this business. 

[00:34:15] Brian Searl: All right, Zach and then Kaleigh. 

[00:34:18] Zach Stoltenberg: So I’ve got a question that’s kind of related to a, a lot of these different things. Um, you know, one thing, yeah, I mean, thinking about these issues now that are, are very real, um, a, a lot of these don’t seem to have been issues during COVID or even pre-COVID.

Um, and I think one of the big changes that’s happened industry-wide was a movement away from a lot of these smaller mom-and-pop operations, independent operators, um, you know, family operations, multi-generational, to, you know, during, during COVID, we saw this huge infusion of capital from institutional groups, um, and moving to these, you know, these larger sort of conglomerates of, you know, owners of 30, 40, 50 parks, 200 parks, things like that.

Um, and, and from a guest experience perspective, I think some of those things that we’ve talked about, like that staff connection, you know, who, who your site manager is, making, you know, having that, that forward-facing, that person that’s there. Um, and I think, you know, some operators and, and certainly some third-party management companies do a very good job of, of maintaining that kind of site manager, that forward-facing.

But I think it becomes a little bit harder to cultivate at the institutional level. I think also, you know, some of the performance metrics, right? Like independent operators, mom-and-pop, they might feel a crunch one year or another. They might try some new things, um, you know, to pivot because, hey, this is a down year for this.

Whereas I think changes at, at an institutional level are a little more difficult to implement, um, and adequately fund. And, and you’ve got, you know, that board of investors, the, the people they, behind all that capital that are sitting there going, “We don’t care if it’s a down year. Where’s our payment?” Um, you’ve got banks saying, “We don’t care if you had a bad year.

Like, your interest rates go up because this is your five.” Um, how much of these issues do, do we think are, are related to that sort of institutional model that’s, that’s started to replace some of the independent operators and the mom-and-pops, and, and are they insulated from it?

[00:36:49] Jayne Cohen: Well, Brian, who do you want to answer that? 

[00:36:54] Brian Searl: Whoever wants to answer it. You guys are all e- much smarter than I am. Don’t look at me. 

[00:36:56] Jayne Cohen: I, I’ll take, I’ll take a stab at it. Yeah. Um, I think… So I think it’s always been a people business, and I think if you look, if you look at parks across the country and you look at the mom-and-pops that became big mom-and-pops, you know, sophisticated mom-and-pops, I was one of them, um, family businesses that, uh, did well in this industry, they knew that the focus was on their guests, and they knew that the focus was, was taking care of that guest and building repeat and referral business, and they did a very, very good job of it.You know? 

And Chris, I, I love the fact that when you came on, and, and by the way, I had not heard of your company, which is surprising ’cause I think I’ve almost heard of everyone being around for as long as I have. But it’s… I, I, I like that you’re keeping… I, I took it that you’re keeping the individual identities of the parks.

Like, you’re becoming a corporate institutional operator, but you’re recognizing that the identity of those parks is a valuable asset. Is… Did I- 

[00:38:13] Chris Lambert: 100% … 

[00:38:13] Jayne Cohen: did I interpret it right? 

[00:38:15] Chris Lambert: Yes, absolutely, and it’s as you said, I mean, it’s about guests, and it’s about team. It’s about people. 

[00:38:21] Jayne Cohen: Right. 

And we can’t, we can’t distill that out from a, from a corporate setting, so.

 And I think that’s- 

[00:38:28] Brian Searl: Well, talk a little bit about- … 

[00:38:29] Jayne Cohen: super important … 

[00:38:29] Brian Searl: sorry. Go ahead, Jayne, and then I want to ask Chris a question. 

[00:38:32] Jayne Cohen: Go ahead. No, go. Brian, it’s your show. 

[00:38:35] Brian Searl: Well, I, okay. So I was just… Chris, I was just gonna ask you, with guest experience, then, is there le- is there learnings that you’ve taken from your years in restaurants that you think apply to parks?

Oh, we lost you. I can’t hear you 

[00:38:53] Chris Lambert: Okay. Can you hear me now? 

[00:38:54] Brian Searl: Yep. 

[00:38:56] Chris Lambert: Um, yeah, there’s, there’s quite a few things. Um, you know, stuff that we’re, we’re constantly teaching, but it’s this concept of connection versus checklist, and whether that’s rules and regulations, whether that’s, you know, SO- SOPs or, you know, processes.

But Really ask the why. Why do we have those processes in place? It’s really to meet a guest need, to meet a team need, and meet an investor need or, or a business need. So, you know, it’s really encouraging our, our teams at all different levels, um, to really think through that mindset of let’s build connections with people.

People can understand when you’re just hiding behind a policy or hiding behind a procedure, but they also can understand when you’re really genuinely trying to be of service, which is what hospitality is built on. So, you know, that, that’s one thing. Um, I think another thing is personalization, and I think that was…

We’ve heard that a couple times today, um, throughout, and I think there’s a bigger need, demand for personalization. We can’t just expect people, um, to come in and, “Yep, got the amenities I need, got the price I want, and, and business transaction settled,” right? So, um, so I think those two principles are kind of at a high level what we, we try to, um, to instill and enforce.

Um, and then always with, with just, again, always learning, always teaching. It, it doesn’t matter how long, I was in restaurants longer than I want to share. Um, but, you know, it- it’s all about learning more things. You can always learn every day and grow, and, and I think that’s what, um, you know, if, if, if you have that in your team and that grit, um, and do the right thing and thinking about through the guest.

And it’s not just writing blank checks. There’s got to be a business component. There’s got to be a team dynamic of what we can, uh, achieve and not achieve. But, but I think it, it starts with people. 

[00:40:42] Kaleigh Day: Um, yeah, I… What I was gonna say earlier, and touching back on, like, what, um, a lot of people are saying, I’m kind of surprised with, like, bringing it back to, like, the customer experience and stuff, even just follow-up emails and asking your guests what, if they have any recommendations for the campgrounds.

Um, we started doing that a while back, and the ideas and, like, some of them are such simple, easy fixes, and it’s enabled us to really, like, our campers, like, just little things, right? It’s like a, like, uh, put a dishwashing sink here in this section too or, like, you know, whatever, like, small asks on our part that we can do that really just makes it…

And then they come back for another stay. They see we’ve, like, heard their, you know, listened to their input, and then we, like, um, implemented it, so things like that. And I’m kind of shocked also talking to other owners and people that, um, like, run other campgrounds and how they, the follow-up, follow-up emails and questions, and having your staff at checkout, you know, go through, “Oh, did you have a good stay?

Do you have any recommendations for us?” Like, we have all of our staff asking that, just that simple question, and people will, like, beam. Or if they were not satisfied with something, it gives you the opportunity to hear it, refund them if, like, you have that ability to or whatever or make it right, you know?

And, um, even just those questions I find go so far, um, for, you know, happy campers. 

[00:42:10] Brian Searl: Yeah, I mean, people just wanna be heard a lot of the time, and that’s how they, they end up at your Google review when they aren’t heard. When they send an email that doesn’t get answered, or they, they pick up the phone and call and nobody listens, or they can’t reach the manager or whatever else.

So that’s a, yeah, a great thing. 

[00:42:24] Tom Mason: Um, one, one other thing. I, Kaleigh, I think you’re right. I mean, it’s basic blocking and tackling techniques that work well. Um, the having someone… We’re trying to, uh, work at many of our parks with knowledge of the area. 

[00:42:41] Kaleigh Day: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:42] Tom Mason: Uh, people are coming there from other parts of the, you know, further away, so we wanna be knowledgeable of what’s going on in the market around us and make those suggestions to them at the front desk or while, you know, while we’re walking around the park.

We- we’re tr- we’re- we’ve focused on that and have gotten good results and good feedback from people about having kind of carnal knowledge of what, what events are going on in the market and around us, and they’ve taken advantage of that and enjoyed themselves. 

[00:43:12] Scott Foos: Mm-hmm. One thing to, to add to that, Tom, that we’ve, uh, we’ve experimented at with one property so far this season and hope to roll it out further is hosting these planning sessions together over coffee, uh, on Saturday morning or over, uh, often over a happy hour wine bar, um, Fri- Friday afternoon, Thursday afternoon as well.

But we have our general manager sit down at a large table with guests and we talk abou- they talk about things to do in the area. And not only is it just then the, the manager sharing local knowledge or the staff sharing local knowledge, but then you’re building some community with the different guests and they’re sharing ideas too between themselves.

Yeah. Um, uh, it’s not just one for one, it’s, i-i-it’s, it’s this, it’s this group kind of discussion. Um, so yeah, I, I think, I, I think that being able to, to really double down on, uh, you know, Chris, you, you brought this up, you know, the, the, um, the individual brand and, and, and knowledge of the pro- or ex- excuse me, local experience of the property and what makes it unique is, is so critical.

And, um, you know, I think that as we look back, Brian, I think back to what your comment was about how the industry’s continued to evolve, I think it’s really worth noting and remembering that this industry is a lot of things to a lot of different people. It’s so varied. It’s institutional, it’s mom and pop, it’s RV, it’s transient, extended stay, seasonal, and even those have various different categories.

And then there’s the lodging and glamping component. Um, you know, it’s, it’s really difficult to make, I think, high level, um, uh, uh- topics or discussion points, I guess, or, or edicts maybe, um, around this industry when it is so nuanced and it does impact so many people. But I think remembering that these properties often are enough in themselves if you are creating that culture and creating that experience and playing into what makes that property unique, um, is, is, is really important and, and, and beneficial.

And then last thing along this line that I, I wanted to, to talk about was, um, you know, as you look at as a, as an investor or someone that’s bought into this industry in the last five years And you’re looking at, at how you can grow your revenue if your rental revenue base isn’t hitting the thesis, um, that, that you’d expected.

Um, you know, we’ve, we’ve had success in not having top-down or initiatives that look good on paper, new amenities, new programming offerings that look good on paper that are generated by our team. We’re having more luck talking to the managers at the properties and saying, you know, “What is it that … What are the friction points we’re trying to solve for, and how do we solve for friction points in the guest experience that can then translate into its own specific business case, its own ancillary revenue stream, its own P&L?”

Uh, an example of that is, um, at a property in Colorado it’s, that we manage, it’s very remote and, um, there, there’s really no place for people to get a drink in the evening or to have, uh, food. Um, there’s no food offering and it’s too small to offer a food and beverage service. It wouldn’t make sense. Um, but we’ve solved that by, uh, opening Color- what we call Colorado’s smallest bar.

Um, and, uh, I don’t know if I’m proud of that, but I, it’s, it’s kinda cool to say. Um, and, uh, you know, we, we have that open every night of the week, and then we also partnered with a, um, a, a really high-end, um, ran- rancher and meat operation, um, in, in the local area that has developed custom kits that now we can offer.

So ne- neither of those things are new, that’s not the point, but it’s solving a specific need that’s then allowing guests to book that extra night because they know that they can solve for food and beverage without, without, uh, burdening the operation. Um, and it’s also driving additional ancillary revenue too.

[00:47:40] Brian Searl: But see, I think that all goes back to nuance, right? 

[00:47:43] Scott Foos: Yep. Exactly. 

[00:47:43] Brian Searl: Like it all goes back to what you were saying, is like I, I think we have some nuance in this industry, like you’re, you’re right. But I also think there’s a lot … Well, there’s 1000X opportunity to have more nuance. I think we should get more fragmented and more guest experience focused on that nuance, like you’re talking about the smallest bar or the other little things you’re doing at those properties.

Because then I think you can take to Jane’s example, then I can think you could take a 10,000 d- a $10,000 a year site that you had to pay $100,000 a year, a year to build, and you figure out how to charge 15 or $20,000, or get, or get 15, $20,000 a year for that, and then your payout, your payout is lower Instead of just building a typical RV site.

[00:48:19] Scott Foos: Yeah. No, that’s, that’s absolutely right. And there’s always g- I mean, there is a case for, um, you know, I, I, I think, a- absolutely, and there’s a case for standard- standardization and, you know, big brands to be in this space, and they do, you know, some, you know, some of those brand- I mean, all the brands, the big brands, big franchisers do a great job in this space.

Um, but you know, you look to, like, the Jellystone model as, as an example, um, and Jayne, you know, you know that world better than me. Um, you know, there, there is room still to not have to be so niche to the, to be able to help drive additional ancillary revenues by, by still creating the experience though.

It’s not just slapping a brand on and calling it, um, you know, calling it this property and expecting revenue to come. It’s still dou- It’s, it’s even more of an edict to double down on guest experience. But, you know, there, there are ways to do that at a, I guess, at a higher level or a standardized level that doesn’t have to be so niche too.

So I think both, both ends can still work. 

[00:49:21] Zach Stoltenberg: I think you brought up a really good point there, Scott, too, that I think a lot of operators look at some of those challenges, right, of solving for FnB or amenities or experiences, and they say, “You know, we know we want to deliver a better guest experience, but how do we do that without investing a ton of capital?

How do we do that without hiring somebody else?” And, you know, that approach of, of partnering with somebody else, some other local operator, like, you know, feed your guests to them. Um, they’re already doing that. And, you know, take a, take a 10% finder’s fee. Take a booking fee. Take… You know, there are ways that you can improve guest experience through those partnerships, and I’ve, we, we preach that a lot.

We talk with people a lot, especially when we go out to evaluate a site. Part of the reason we always do a site visit is just that. We’re looking at not just the property, but what is in the area. You know, if, if from that campground it’s a 30-minute drive to the nearest Dollar General, then w- we need some onsite FnB.

We need a little store, a camp store. We need to keep some, you know, sundries, some, just the basics, right, like eggs, milk, bread. Uh, we don’t need a full grocery bu- but we need to have some stuff there on site because if we ignore that, if we don’t do it, now that becomes detrimental to that guest experience.

So- Mm-hmm … I think that’s, that’s a really good approach, and I think a lot of operators miss that, that you don’t have to do everything. Just partner with somebody who’s in your area that’s already doing it.

[00:50:55] Brian Searl: All right, let’s spend the last… Go ahead, sorry. Please. 

[00:51:00] Kaleigh Day: Oh, no. You go for it. 

[00:51:01] Brian Searl: No, I… Say your comment and then we’re gonna end there. No problem. We’re just gonna, uh, spend the last few minutes just to having everybody else ask questions to the other guests instead of me being out. So go ahead, please. And then- 

[00:51:09] Kaleigh Day: Oh, yeah.

I was gonna say, yeah, like things like, um, like food trucks or bike rentals are really successful at the other campgrounds in the area. Um, like I know some people source out their… For where we are, surf lessons and surf rentals, we do our own. Um, but I know they also, um, contract out or, um, whatever with other companies, local companies.

So it’s a great… It keeps campers happy. You’re not worrying, you don’t have to worry about staffing it, dealing with it, ’cause, you know, especially out where we are. Um, yeah, that’s just my little comment. 

[00:51:39] Brian Searl: All right. Well, let’s start with you Kaleigh, since we’re ending already. So we typically end the show, we’ll spend the last few minutes just with everybody asking each other questions.

So Kaleigh, do you have any questions for any of our other guests? 

[00:51:50] Kaleigh Day: Oh, gosh. 

[00:51:51] Brian Searl: Any questions for them? 

[00:51:52] Kaleigh Day: Just putting me on the spot, hey? Um- 

[00:51:54] Brian Searl: Anything you wanna know. 

[00:51:55] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. Uh, does any of you guys that are running or like overseeing multiple campgrounds, do you… Are they all RV parks or do you guys have like a blend of some tent camping or, um…

Yeah, does anyone else deal with tent campers? 

[00:52:11] Tom Mason: Yeah. Well, well it’s kind of a mix, Kaleigh, for our portfolio. We have tent sites at many of our parks, but not all. We have accommodations at many of our parks, but not all. All of our campground, all of our parks that we manage have RV sites. Yeah. So I think that’s…

[00:52:29] Scott Foos: And I’m similar to, to Tom, uh, but we do have a property that is exclusively glamping, uh, lodging only. Um, and then another that’s, uh, almost exclusively glamping and, and lodging. 

[00:52:44] Chris Lambert: Yeah, Kaleigh, same. We have kind of a, a mix of parks that have multiple different ways to stay. Um, but uh, our, our best performing park is one outside of Glacier and there’s a, I mean, a tent…

I, I can book the, the, a site there, uh, whenever I want to. So, um- 

[00:53:01] Kaleigh Day: I would love to- 

[00:53:01] Chris Lambert: That’s always soft to my heart. I’m a backpacker by trade. I’m a minimalist. Yeah. So, uh, you know, have a, have a respect for the tent campers for sure. 

[00:53:09] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. 

[00:53:11] Brian Searl: All right, Chris, do you have a question for any of our other guests? 

[00:53:13] Zach Stoltenberg: You know, in our business it’s probably about, I used to say a 60/40 split.

Um, I mean, obviously we help people reposition existing assets or, or do new ground up. On the RV side, there has not been a lot of new ground up, um, just because of all those challenges and the financing model is, is very difficult to get those projects, uh, funded right now. Um, but I’d, I’d say we’re, we’re seeing a, a big pivot on those existing assets repositioning.

Um, but probably 60% of what we do is, is glamping and boutique hotels, and that seems to be staying very, very strong. We’re, we’re still very busy in those markets 

[00:53:53] Brian Searl: Chris, do you have a question for one of the guests? 

[00:53:55] Chris Lambert: Um, yeah, I, I, I think, you know, kind of going back to just customer service across a diverse portfolio, more of me asking for help, but not that we need it, but just for those that have been in the industry long term, I mean, this, it’s been a big shift as I can imagine as I’ve talked to Scott and others.

Um, what is your approach to, to make sure that we’re applying level standardization but also flexibility into that, that framework? ‘Cause I think that’s the hardest solve, right? Is when, when to build connection versus going through the checklist.

[00:54:29] Brian Searl: Directed to anybody specific or you just naming them?

[00:54:31] Chris Lambert: Uh, Jayne or Scott or 

[00:54:35] Jayne Cohen: So I think- Uh, 

[00:54:36] Scott Foos: well, I– Go ahead, Jayne. 

[00:54:37] Jayne Cohen: Oh, go ahead, Scott. No, go ahead. 

[00:54:39] Scott Foos: No, no, please. Uh- I 

[00:54:41] Jayne Cohen: I think- I, 

[00:54:41] Scott Foos: I was just gonna, uh, just hi- high, very high level. We, we, um, we, we have a, a s- a standard operating playbook with parameters that we ask our, our, our team members to, to stay within, but part of that is also in training them in how to be flexible and how to meet the guest where they are in those, in those difficult situations.

Um, or if they need to go above and beyond or want to go above and beyond for a guest, what does that budget look like for, for those surprises, delights as well? Um, so it’s not– I mean, you– I think you know that, uh, j- you know, better than anybody, I think, from the restaurant world, too. I mean, it’s not a science.

Uh, it’s definitely an art, and it can be hard at scale. 

[00:55:30] Brian Searl: Jayne? 

[00:55:33] Jayne Cohen: Um, I f- I feel like the campground industry business is never gonna be like we make a widget business, right? It’s, it’s really difficult to standardize. I know when I had, like, 13 of my own parks, there are certain things that I did standardize, like my reservation policies or my cancellation policies.

So there were certain things that were easy to do, and they a- it actually helped to do it because then I had the same policies at all the parks, right? Um, but there’s other things that were just very specific to that property, and I always felt like it’s all about the staff and, and either enabling the staff to interpret your goals, right, and your, your SOPs or your roles, or you disable them, right?

And, um, I always felt like there’s really nothing that any of them could do that would really hurt us. So in other words, if someone gave money back when, you know, the cancellation policy was clear they shouldn’t have given money back, okay, who cares? It’s not gonna, it’s not gonna kill us. Uh, if it’s some- if, if it was something that was correctable, I took that person aside, corrected, you know, or had the manager correct them, right?

But I tried to always have a philosophy throughout the parks that, yeah, these are our standards, these are our guidelines, but you know what? You guys gotta add some common sense in what’s happening right there, right then, now, and think. Use your brain, ’cause that’s why I hired you, and make a decision. And so again, it was about enabling them because, you know, you’re asking…

Uh, I remember so many times people asked me, “How, how do you find campground help?” And I looked into, like, people who had restaurant experience because they were m- easier and more common, frankly, than people with campground experience, right? But people in restaurant experience, they deal with a lot of the same things, and they deal with a lot of the long hours, and the weekends, and the nights, and that type of stuff, so they, they’re used to that.

So I, I, I think coming from the restaurant business is a, is very, the experience is very applicable to a campground, running a campground, especially from the guest services perspective 

[00:58:14] Tom Mason: Yeah. On our, on our side, Chris, um, there are policies and procedures, all that kind of, you know, word speak, more on the accounting side.

We wanna make sure we’re doing the accounting properly through all our parks, um, especially for ownership groups that have multiple parks. We wanna be reporting in the same fashion at all our parks for their groups, things like that. But on the, on the customer service side, it’s really, you know, to Jayne and Scott’s point, it’s empowerment.

We’re not there. We, you know, Ja-

[00:58:50] Brian Searl: Oh, did we lose Tom? 

[00:58:52] Kaleigh Day: Oh, no. 

[00:58:52] Jayne Cohen: Hmm. 

[00:58:54] Brian Searl: Maybe we lost Tom. Okay. Um, Scott, you haven’t been here in a while. Ask- oh, he’s back. Yeah. Never mind. Go ahead, Tom. Yeah. You cut out for a minute. 

[00:59:01] Tom Mason: No, uh, just that we pay you to make decisions, and you’re right there, so… And to Jayne’s point, they really can’t do too much damage to whatever they give away, so…

[00:59:11] Brian Searl: Scott, I was gonna say, do you have a, do you have a question next for anybody?

[00:59:14] Scott Foos: I, I think if, if I can direct it at, at one individual person, just because I have not heard the story, and not to put you on the spot, Kaleigh, how did you get into the business? How, how did you, how did you land here? 

[00:59:27] Kaleigh Day: Oh, yeah. Uh, we were honeymooning on Vancouver Island, and, uh, we happened to go and stay at Surf Junction Campground, and we found out it was for sale, and this was in 2011, so it was right before…

The area had been starting to get really busy, ’cause Tofin- I don’t know if you guys have heard of Tofino- 

[00:59:46] Scott Foos: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:47] Kaleigh Day: Yeah … as, like, a destination place. Uh, so we stayed at the campground, and we saw the little, “Uh, calm that you can live there,” and we’re like, “Whoa, this is, like, nice,” you know? But it was… You know, we were young.

And, um, anyways, we, uh, decided to go for it, so we bought it, and then we’ve since repurchased the land behind. We’ve expanded, added amenities, and we’ve, you know, and then here we are, like, 14 years later. 

[01:00:12] Scott Foos: Awesome. 

[01:00:13] Kaleigh Day: Yeah. 

[01:00:14] Scott Foos: That’s awesome. Thank you. 

[01:00:14] Brian Searl: Zach, do you have any questions? 

[01:00:20] Zach Stoltenberg: Um. Let me think about it. I know we’re trying to wrap up. Um- 

[01:00:31] Brian Searl: Tom, you go, and then Zach we’ll come back to you. And then if anybody needs to drop off, I know we’re a minute or two late, so please feel free to drop off and go to other commitments. 

[01:00:37] Tom Mason: Yeah. I, I’ll ask Jayne a question. What’s your, uh… What do you see going forward on the development side?

How’s, how’s your pipeline? Not to give away trade secrets, but what, how’s the activity there?

[01:00:51] Jayne Cohen: Um, development is really tough, right? Right now development is tough. Um, I have just recently saw our feasibility studies slow down. Um, but, but going, uh, and I mean, like, recently, like the past, like, couple of weeks, we’ve been really busy still with folks wanting to do feasibility studies and wanting, uh, to study it.

But, but development is just super tough. When folks come to me and wanna develop their first campground, uh, one of the first questions I ask them, Tom, is, “Have you considered an acquisition?” Because, you know, you got… I always say, and I don’t even know if it’s politically correct anymore, but I always say, “Development is not for sissies.”

I mean, there is just one hurdle, one challenge after the other. It doesn’t end, and, um, getting to that finish line is tough. And when you do get to that finish line, you don’t have any customers. You don’t have a cash flow. So an acquisition is a little bit easier, and I always sa- say to the new developer, I say, “Maybe try an acquisition first, and, uh, work on a development next.”

But I think development is, I don’t think it’s dead, but I, I only f- I think it’s very slow, and it’s only for some people. 

[01:02:23] Tom Mason: Okay. Thanks. 

[01:02:25] Jayne Cohen: What do you think? 

[01:02:27] Tom Mason: Oh, well, yeah. I, that sounds about what I would have expected. I have to jump off, Brian. I got a call waiting. 

[01:02:34] Brian Searl: All right, Tom- So 

[01:02:34] Tom Mason: thank you … 

[01:02:35] Brian Searl: before you go real quick- 

[01:02:35] Tom Mason: I’ll see you next one

[01:02:36] Brian Searl: tell them where they can, tell them where they can find out more about IVEE Group before you go. 

[01:02:40] Tom Mason: I will. Thank you. 

[01:02:42] Brian Searl: Okay. Don’t do that then. All right, I was gonna say, give out your website if you want. 

[01:02:47] Tom Mason: Oh, uh, ivee.com. So-

[01:02:49] Brian Searl: Okay. Perfect. Thanks, Tom. 

[01:02:51] Tom Mason: Thank you. 

[01:02:51] Brian Searl: I appreciate it. Zach, do you have a one final question for us?

[01:02:55] Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah. Um, this may be for Chris and for Scott. Um, so recently, uh, we bid working on a project, and this would be our third project within about a, I’m gonna say a 20-mile radius of one location. Um, w- what are your thoughts on, like, market saturation? I mean, obviously there’s, you know, some parts of the country that do better and, uh, you know, if you’d asked me three years ago, I would’ve said, “Yeah, the rising tide gathers all ships.

The more we have in an area, the better they all do.” Um, w- what are your thoughts today on, like, that market saturation? Like, how, how many campgrounds, resorts can one area support, and, and what are, what are some of the challenges that come up on the management side when you have like two, three parks that are all in the same market?

[01:03:54] Scott Foos: Chris, you wanna take that? 

[01:03:57] Chris Lambert: Yeah, I can. I mean, we have some, some experience in that. I, I think it goes back to… and I know this is a softball answer, but you have to understand what the target guest is. ‘Cause what… You know, if you have two guests or, or two parks that are very similar, like highly transient particular, but if, if they’re pretty much the same park, well, then you might be cannibalizing sales, right?

But if you have- Right … where we’ve found some success is where we have maybe a, a more transient park and then one m- more extended stay that would kind of, you know… Or, or different seasons or different amenities, um, with different price points. So, I, you know, what I would just say what… ‘Cause we’ve, we’ve passed on a few where it was like, “Okay, this is very similar to our park that’s 50 miles away, and we’re, we’re gonna be, um, tugging at both ends of the string there,” so.

[01:04:43] Scott Foos: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would, I would, I would echo, uh, what, what Chris said. And then I think, um, you know, looking, uh, you know, Chris, as, as you guys are acquiring properties, you know, I think people are looking to develop properties, too. Um, Zach, to your, I think maybe to your point about the feasibility side. Um, you know, I, I, I think you, you can’t ignore the national trends.

And you can’t, you can’t look and s- and say that demand overall is, is, uh, trend the transient side is, is weakening. And there’s also, you know, multiple new developments happening. How unique and differentiated can each one be? Even on the glamping side, on, on a lodging side. Um, you know, of course the unit mix and on- the onsite experience will be different, but you’re still drawing to the, to the same area.

And so I, I think oversaturation in, in many markets, uh, is, is a, is a top concern that, that people should be thinking about and should’ve been thinking about maybe for the last few years. 

[01:05:46] Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:46] Chris Lambert: Yeah. And one last thing. 

[01:05:48] Jayne Cohen: You know what’s an exam- Whoops. Go ahead, 

[01:05:50] Chris Lambert: Chris. I gotta finish one thought. Um, there is some efficiencies of scale. Um, so we’ve seen success- 

[01:05:55] Scott Foos: Sure. Yeah … 

[01:05:55] Chris Lambert: of having shared staff, which is, you know, one of your biggest fixed cost business and a high fixed cost, uh, industry. So, you know, that is one thing to consider. But, um, but yeah, I was just gonna make that mention of, of there’s, there’s some shared services that you could do.

And, and, and Scott’s exactly right. There could be, you know, whether it’s a data center, the area that moved in, and you have two parks right there, and you’re gonna… That’s not gonna be as, uh… It’s gonna be more insulated than what the, the, the macro level demand may be across, across the United States.

Sorry, Jayne. 

[01:06:26] Jayne Cohen: No, I was just gonna say, like, you know, a lot of people made this mistake in Houston, right? Houston, Texas. 

[01:06:32] Scott Foos: That’s the best market example. 

[01:06:34] Jayne Cohen: Um, it’s the best. I mean, that’s a… That, right? 

[01:06:37] Scott Foos: Yep. 

[01:06:37] Jayne Cohen: That’s a saturation, right? There’s this huge market, right? Huge number of people, campers, people with or without, and all these parks came into the market, and then they all battled it out and, and many of them are having a, are still having a very tough time.

And people are like, “But it’s Houston.” Well, yeah, it is Houston, but it’s… So I think that’s just a cautionary tale, frankly, right? That it’s really important to, to look at, you know, how many people are in the market, but who is, who is chewing up that market, and what is there? 

[01:07:24] Brian Searl: All right. Well, thank you, guys, for another good show.

Let’s wrap it up. A final thought, Zach, and then we’re gonna learn more about what you got going on. 

[01:07:31] Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Insta, all the typical socials, um, or you can check us out at lja.com. 

[01:07:41] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Zach. Scott, final thoughts and where can they learn more about Horizon? 

[01:07:46] Scott Foos: Yeah, um, well, uh, at risk of running over I’ll just share, or even more, I’ll share, uh, just contact information for, for now.

But, um, you can find me on, sometimes find me on LinkedIn, um, always find us at horizonoutdoors.com. 

[01:08:02] Brian Searl: Chris, where can they learn more about Streamside, and if you have any final thoughts? 

[01:08:05] Chris Lambert: Sure. Well, I just appreciate the, the invite to the podcast. I’ve really learned a lot and, and happy to be more, uh, of a discussion.

Um, streamsideparks.com, also steadystays, um, .com is some of our more extended stay g- uh, park properties that we have. Uh, you can find us on social as well. 

[01:08:22] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Chris. Kaleigh? 

[01:08:24] Kaleigh Day: Uh, yeah, you can see me in person at Surf Junction Campground. Uh, but also our website is surfjunction.com. 

[01:08:33] Brian Searl: Jayne. Final thoughts, and where can they please learn more about, uh, Cairn Consulting Group?

[01:08:43] Jayne Cohen: Uh, campgroundconsultinggroup.com. I’m not, uh, I don’t really answer my LinkedIn or anything like that, but either get me that at, at, uh, at the website or my cell, 603-455-1884. 

[01:08:56] Brian Searl: All right. Well thank you everybody for being here today. Uh, join us next week for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. I appreciate you watching it.

Uh, we don’t have Outwired today. Scott and I are taking the week off, so take care guys. See you later, and we’ll appreciate y’all being here. 

[01:09:07] Scott Foos: Thanks Brian. Thanks everybody.