MC Fireside Chats – September 2nd, 2026

[00:00:45] Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name’s Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground. Excited to be here with you for another first week episode. See if I can get my camera lined up. Ooh, I forgot my little Irish hat today. Oh, no, I feel naked. Uh, anyway, uh, so-

[00:01:01] Rafael Correa: Don’t get sunburned.

[00:01:02] Brian Searl: It is. It’s, it’s cold too. I could use the hot, the, to keep the heat in. Uh, anyway, uh, excited to be here for another episode. Welcome b- back to a bunch of our recurring guests here. We got Phil Ingrassia from RVDA of America. Well, we’ll just go around the room and let everybody introduce themselves. Go ahead, Phil first.

[00:01:17] Phil Ingrassia: Hi, I’m Phil Ingrassia, president of the RV Dealers Association in the US.

[00:01:24] Brian Searl: All right. Nobody rush all at one. Go second. 

[00:01:27] Eleonore Hamm: I’m Eleonore, or Eleonore Hamm, president of the RV Dealers Association of Canada. 

[00:01:33] Brian Searl: All right, Rachel. 

[00:01:34] Rachel Godbout: I’m Rachel Godbout, CEO of Advanced Outdoor Management. 

[00:01:38] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Rachel. A special guest this week, Simon.

[00:01:41] Simon Neal: Yeah, Simon, founder and CEO of CampMap.

[00:01:45] Brian Searl: Uh, Michael.

[00:01:47] Michael Moore: Sorry, I was waiting until the tornado siren went down, but I’ll talk over it. Um, I’m the assistant executive director of Texas Campgrounds and then the general manager of AGS Guest Guides. 

[00:01:58] Brian Searl: Do you need to leave, Michael? Or are you- 

[00:02:00] Michael Moore: No, no, no …

[00:02:00] Brian Searl: okay?

[00:02:00] Rafael Correa: Take cover.

[00:02:01] Michael Moore: I just, it’s, it’s the monthly test. Like, it’s not, it’s-

[00:02:03] Rafael Correa: Oh, okay.

[00:02:04] Michael Moore: it’s 99 and sunny. It’s all good. But, uh, they test it once a month to make sure we’re, we’re good, so. 

[00:02:10] Brian Searl: Just making sure. Like, I watch a podcast of this Mario guy who’s in the UAE, and he’s, like, got sirens going off, and I’m like, “Man, you, you gotta get out of your house.” 

[00:02:17] Michael Moore: Yeah, those aren’t that. Those aren’t that-

[00:02:18] Brian Searl: Yeah

[00:02:18] Michael Moore: to be clear.

[00:02:19] Brian Searl: Okay.

[00:02:19] Michael Moore: So. 

[00:02:20] Brian Searl: Raf, go ahead. 

[00:02:21] Rafael Correa: Yeah, Rafael Correa, president and CFO of Bluewater Hospitality Development Investment and Management Company, and also currently serving as the secretary of the executive committee at OHI, the industry, uh, trade organization. 

[00:02:39] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, sir. And last but not least, Scott.

[00:02:42] Scott Bahr: Uh, Scott Bahr, president of Cairn Consulting Group. We’re a market research, uh, consultancy working primarily in the outdoor sectors. 

[00:02:52] Brian Searl: Awesome. Uh, so okay. So we typically do, I think we kinda sketched out before we started some of the directions we wanna take the show in. Uh, but is there anything else besides those two things that we talked about before we dive into them, uh, that you guys think should come, you know, come, came across your desk that you think we should be talking about for our recurring guests?

[00:03:09] Rafael Correa: So just real selfishly, I wanna put a quick plug in there for the upcoming OHI, uh, board of director elections. They start on September the 15th. Um, so if you, uh, are a member of OHI, make sure you get in there, check out the awesome candidates. We have one joining us today, uh, Rachel Godbout. So, um- Yeah

another one of several amazing candidates that I think would be, uh, great additions to the board. So if you’re a member, make sure you get out there and, uh, and vote. 

[00:03:41] Brian Searl: Yeah. Uh, definitely, like, one of the things that is strong in our industry, a lot of good leadership on the board. Uh, I could never do it.

Like, I don’t have the patience to listen to other people and collaborate very well, uh, just broken internally and inside. So, uh, but, you know, uh, definitely glad for the people who step up and do that for our industry and all that. So yeah, please if you’re a member, go vote. Anybody else? Anybody else?

Okay, so I think what we’ve talked about prior to starting the show is we wanted to have a discussion about reservation systems. And don’t get scared and turn it off and think it’s another panel that you see at, at one of the conferences. Uh, w- I think we wanna, like, have a conversation about we’ve seen some of these new reservation platforms come in to the industry and there’s many of them over the last few years, but two of the more recent ones that have come across my desk at least, and, and if there’s other ones that we should be paying attention to, our guests will bring them up in a second.

But our, uh, Campground Views launched a reservation system called Acre, I think, yesterday. Uh, and I haven’t had a chance to see a demo of that or dive into it. Uh, there’s also a, a, a great new system called CampGuide that I did have a demo of that I came across that’s pretty powerful from an automation perspective and has new technology built into it.

Obviously, we’ve got some of the legacy players who are building things into their systems. We’ve got Staylist, who’s building their new Apex system, which I think some people on this call have had a demo of. Maybe they wanna share some of that. But I think there’s an interesting conversation to be had about where we are as an industry from a property management system perspective, because I’m not sure, I’m not so sure we are where we should be or need to be for the future, especially with AI, uh, and where we go from here.

Like, who builds it? Who’s the … N- not that we’re gonna predict a single winner, right? But where, what are the companies that are thriving in this industry five, 10 years from now? What do they have? What are they doing for the campground owners? What are they doing for the guests? How are they making the experience better?

I think that’s a pretty interesting conversation to have. So who wants to s- kick that off? 

[00:05:40] Rafael Correa: Well, as a, as a customer of, uh, one, two, three, four, maybe five different systems, I can definitely share some perspective. Um, so here at Blue Water, we are active users of the KOA K2 system, uh, Newbook, uh, Campspot.

We’re currently demoing, uh, Staylist as well, and then we use another tool called Muse, uh, for our hotel portfolio. And so, you know, for my, my, my philosophy about PMS for many years has been the devil you know, right? Like they, they all have shortcomings, they all have challenges, they all kind of do something really good, and then something where it just kind of misses the mark.

Um, and so it’s kind of like whichever one that had the least scary corners, uh, for you was the best option for you. I can tell you that, you know, in sitting down with the, the three major RV providers that are out there that we work with, there’s some super exciting stuff that’s coming down the pike, and the speed of the iteration and speed of which they’re developing, um, is, is pretty, you know, awe-inspiring relative to what we’ve experienced in the past of when we needed a feature, we’re talking about waiting six months to a year before we can get into their, you know, future development pipeline and all that kind of good stuff.

And, you know me, uh, like many others who I think went down the AI rabbit hole earlier this year or late last year, you know, you get to this AI psychosis of I can build anything, right? Like, I don’t need any of these software companies. The SaaS-pocalypse is here. I am a developer of software. And, uh, I think that’s, most of us are coming to the cruel and real realization that, that it takes a lot more…

Like, what it takes to make a PMS is not just software, right? I mean, there is security, there is credit card processing. There are so many layers to that game that require their own individual expertise And when you’re handling that much PII, you’re handling that much financial information, like, and, and not to mention the fact the complexity of the sc- scenarios you’re trying to solve for, right?

So an RV, you got an RV that has a marina. You have an RV resort that has long terms and short terms. Oh, this is an RV resort, but these are owned sites, and so we need to keep owner accounts, right? So there’s so many variations of our business. Uh, like for the size of our business relative to the hotel traditional hospitality world, the number of scenarios you need to solve for in our world is like infinitely more than traditional hospitality.

And so it is no small task to take this on, and the ones that I’m working with, at least the PMS providers I’m working with, are… I’m seeing monumental leaps in the technology, and I’m getting very excited. And I’m getting very excited because of what it means for our guests. It means a whole different level of a frictionless check-in, fr- frictionless booking process, check-in process, better communication throughout the whole life cycle of the customer, and all of those things to me are super-duper exciting, uh, about what’s coming down the line, and it’s happening at a pace that I’ve never seen before.

So our industry, much like any other industry, is seeing gigantic disruption as a result of AI, and the first place it’s really gonna show up in a real meaningful way is through these PMS systems. And I welcome, you know, anybody who thinks they have a better mousetrap, because the one thing I will share, you know, from my personal experience of having played with all these different systems is that, you know Not committing to one bucket of, uh, or one, one provider has made them always try to level up to get Blue Water’s business and they’ve kind of, and I think we and other people have done that.

And that competition is, is what’s driving the improvement in the technology which the ultimate beneficiary is gonna be the customer who is honestly the thing we’re probably all the most worried about on this call today. 

[00:09:30] Brian Searl: So if you had to pick one thing that you can share and, and make it as, uh, anonymous if you need to as possible if it’s a feature that hasn’t been released by somebody.

But if you pick one thing that, that you’re most excited about out of all the things you’ve seen so far that are coming. 

[00:09:43] Rafael Correa: I think the thing that, some of the things that I’m most excited about would be like, uh, phone calls, right? Like, people are sometimes are intimidated about this idea of AI answering the phone and the reality is, is that when I call a business, you know, when I think about it from a consumer’s perspective is like I just want the path of least resistance.

I want an answer. I want a solution. I don’t care if I talk to a person or a robot or a chat, whatever it is it’s just like whatever gets me there the fastest and gets the, the thing done correctly and quickly. And so what I’m seeing in these, uh, es- especially when labor is such a giant consideration for us is like not having people that able to answer the phones all the s- all the time.

Somebody that’s on 24/7 that’s able to close business and not to mention that they’re closing business they’re also tracking every single call. They’re tracking what, you know, even if people are answering the phone who’s closing business, right? And that type of feedback is like what we need to get better, right?

And, and that, those types of things aren’t, haven’t been as readily available and as affordable to deliver as they are today. And so all of it from the call tracking to the AI call answering, you know, those things I think are getting to a level now where it’s gonna have a meaningful benefit to both operators and the actual RV guests.

[00:11:06] Brian Searl: And I think from a PMS standpoint and, and there are other people who are building this certainly, but I think from a PMS standpoint in that specific regard I think Staylist is probably one of the most impressive isn’t it? 

[00:11:16] Rafael Correa: Uh, it’s super impressive. 

[00:11:18] Brian Searl: Can we call them out by na- like I don’t know I mean- 

[00:11:20] Rafael Correa: But I, I’ll tell you what, Campspot showed me their stuff also super impressive.

Like it’s, it’s coming and it’s coming quickly and that’s, uh, and, and I think we get to see some of this stuff a little sooner than most, but like I got to see Campspot’s thing in action and it’s, you know, it’s right up there, you know, with what, uh, what Staylist is showing in a lot of ways. And so- That’s what’s exciting to me.

And these two new entrants that you’re talking about, like it’s another sign of the times, right? Like they were both sophisticated people that had the technol- the technology background that could get to this point. Um, and I’m eager to see what they do with it, and I wish them all well because all I care about is that my guest gets the best service that they can get, and then I’m closing that business.

[00:12:04] Brian Searl: Rachel, what do you think? Uh, coming from RJourney AOM, you have your own property management system. How do you view this space? 

[00:12:10] Rachel Godbout: So Rafa brought up a, a few really good points that, that are important. And to touch on one, the guest experience and communication, ’cause ultimately in the consumer dynamic that we’re in right now, it’s paramount that your consumer has a great check-in, great communication.

We have to go back to the basics with hospitality in order to retain the c- the customer. And so I don’t want that to get lost in anything else that was said, because at the end of the day, that is paramount. It, it’s going to be incredibly important. The– Our industry is so dynamic, and it’s dynamic not only in the features of the park, but what matters to the consumer.

So we still have some people that aren’t quite as accounting driven, maybe as Blue Water or AOM. Like for us, the dashboards, the finances, that’s, that’s incredibly valuable. Some people aren’t at that level yet, and they care more about the ease of use on the, the interface with the front desk, right? But the call tracking and some of those features, again, you’re gonna have more advanced users in that.

Our system does that, but we we’ve spent a lot more money getting to that development point. Um, and, and so the call tracking, uh, we talked about abandoned cart a little bit, um, which call center agent is closing more, what time of day, what type of close, more transient, more long term. You know, all of those factors, the, the more you can evaluate those, the better decisions we can make as a business on behalf of our, our clients.

Um, ours is a little different. I mean, ours is, is different than what’s out there, and we do have an AI component to it. We have a couple AI components and more being developed. Um, but ours is unique because we do own it. It is all– It’s integrated with every other platform we own, which is a challenge for some of the larger platforms, right?

Like a Newbook or Staylist or Campspot. For them to have full integrations with your accounting system of choice might not always be available. Ours fully integrates our labor, our, um, accounting, our credit cards, our banking, and so we do have a very holistic view of that, but some of the other features are not quite…

Oh, the puppy. Um, some of the other features are very different as well, right? And so, um, we are incredibly data-driven S- it’s just very different and it’s interesting to me, to Raf’s point again, you pick up a park that has a marina. Well, the system, you might have to put that in as a site and your site count then depends on the, what you pay for it, if you’re paying per site.

So then you have some people that maybe are opting to take the lower cost versus the marina slips being in the system, or it’s they’re skewing their occupancy. And so there’s a lot of choices. I love where it’s going. I love, I love the competitiveness. I think it’s gonna make us all grow faster and better and be more creative.

Um, but I think it’s gonna define more of a clear direction of where we go, ’cause right now we are inundated with options, right? And eventually, uh, everybody, whether you’re a smaller operator or a large, is going to have to go with a certain direction, uh, which is going to be AI. That every- everybody has a component to it.

Eventually, it’s just gonna be like sending email communications. It’s just there. Um, so I, I love where it’s going. I love the creativeness. I think it’s going to be a little bit of a challenge at the beginning because it is so open, and, um, having… If you’re in a non-proprietary system, you know, the good thing for us is that our preferences are in it.

So we just, we build it, we design it. It is what we want it to be. That’s not what everybody wants it to be. Um, but using AI in certain ways and the customizable features of it and how it can work best for you, I think is gonna be a learning curve for the industry as a whole. But h- I’m interested to see how the softwares use it to be more customizable per location versus the templated responses, right?

Or the templated uses. That to me is probably the most interesting facet of where this is gonna go. 

[00:16:47] Rafael Correa: I agree. That, that, that’s the key is that like this empowers You know, providers like us to provide such a custom experience to each individual guest without the additional overhead that it would’ve taken to do in a previous, you know, time.

Like, it can be like, it’s gonna be Scott Bahr’s journey, and it’s gonna feel very custom to Scott Bahr. You know, it’ll have a calculator on his pillow ready for him when he gets there because they know what he likes to do before he goes to bed. So all that stuff. So that’s, that is probably the most exciting piece of what’s gonna change, and I think it’s so important.

Like, it needs… This is the time for it to change because we need this RV consumer to re-engage and feel like it’s a much more premium experience for them, right? They want that, that ability to deliver that level of hospitality is only gonna help bring back that transient consumer that, you know, I know we’re hurting for here in the US.

[00:17:42] Rachel Godbout: On guest experience, I think is going to drive, absolutely drive retention, but also when the consumer is harder to get, like the climate that we’re in right now, the AI affects everything from the way the guest searches, where you show up, how they find you, to their booking decision, right? And so the more you can lean in on that and make it a customized jersey or journey, um, you know, it feels to them like that higher level experience for the business is a lower cost.

But the people that are not opting for that higher level of hospitality are going to, in my opinion, hurt a little bit more than those that go back to that intimate relationship with the client. Even if it’s an email chain, multiple emails trickling in, um, uh, the experience is going to make the value worth it no matter what your price point is, and that’s gonna be very important.

[00:18:41] Brian Searl: Yeah, I think, I, I mean, that’s the simplest example is email marketing, right? And I, I think, I think 10 years from now, maybe even not that long, maybe five years, we all look back on what we were doing for email marketing for the last 20 years, like we were the stupidest people in the world blasting the same message to 10,000 different people trying to get them to come to our properties when in the future everything’s one-to-one personalized.

So that’s the simplest example. So Michael, you, you would do a lot of marketing with AGS. You obviously work with the association at Taco. Uh, there’s- I mean, answer the question and take this in any direction you want, but one of the things that’s most curious to me too, and maybe this is to you, maybe this is other people who want to answer this, is it’s very easy to say, “We’re a PMS, we’re gonna take advantage of AI.”

What does that mean? Because everything that you’re building with AI takes time and care and craft to do. It’s not just a chat bot or just a phone agent or just a personalized email or just the right… So I think it’s gonna be interesting to see how each one of these PMSs takes a different approach to implementing something in a unique way, but what’s your perspective on this?

[00:19:42] Michael Moore: Well, yeah, and I, to kind of answer a question you had asked, uh, a few minutes ago, you know, who, who are gonna be the players five or 10 years from now? Honestly, I think there’s gonna be some that aren’t even here now, you know, that we haven’t heard of, because the technology is so democratized that, kind of like Raf said, I mean, I don’t wanna say anyone can do it, but it’s a lot easier now, uh, than it was before.

Now, having said that, the current players, the Campspots, the Staylists obviously have a leg up because the other thing I would say about that too, and, you know, any vendor can attest to this, especially, you know, in this campground industry, it takes three, four, or five years to really break in. If you’re unveiling a new company or a new product, um, it takes a while.

I mean, campground operators are inherently kind of suspicious of changing up, changing up their, their operations. And so the, the, the, I don’t wanna say the old guard, but the current reservation system companies, again, they’ve been around a long time, and so they’ve built up a lot of credibility and a lot of, of just rapport with the operators out there.

So back to your, your original question with the AI and how that plays into it Again, it, it’s, it’s a balancing act obviously, and I think Rachel kind of touched on it too, is, you know, uh, the, all this stuff is great and it’s very helpful for a lot of things, but what are the things that the guest is going to get the most sort of satisfaction out of, right?

So obviously on the AGS side, I’m sort of, uh, you know, tuned into the experience when they’re already at the park, not so much getting to the park, but once they’re there and figuring out what they need and what they wanna do while they’re there. I mean, do they need the mobile tech number? Do they need to know where to go grab a bite to eat?

And that kind of stuff, again, AI can be very helpful with it, but it also, I don’t wanna discount sort of the hospitality in-person angle too that the park provides. So, you know- 

[00:21:33] Brian Searl: And let me… A- and I want you to continue, but let me back up and just clarify one thing.

[00:21:37] Michael Moore: Yeah.

[00:21:37] Brian Searl: When I say AI, I don’t mean like AI always in your face.

[00:21:40] Michael Moore: Sure.

[00:21:41] Brian Searl: I mean AI being enabled as a tool for these developers and PMS systems to work faster and create new features. I mean AI being used to personalize the guest experience without them even knowing it’s AI. I mean, like that kind of thing. So please continue. 

[00:21:54] Michael Moore: Yeah, no, and, and I, a- again, I, I think still, um, it’s, it’s like Raf said, it’s only gonna get better.

I think it’s g- just gonna be trying to figure out for all of us, okay, what is the right level of, of how much we use it, if you will. You know, like how much is too much before a, a guest… And look, let’s face it, the guests are becoming a lot more sophisticated all the time, so they’re gonna know a lot easier what sort of, you know, sounds like AI and what doesn’t.

And, you know, we don’t know sort of the full effect yet on how people will feel about sort of being catered that way or not. You know, it’s still in the early stages- Yeah … of, of doing all this stuff. And so- So- … it’s very early and, and we don’t know, but look, a- I, I’m with everyone else, I’m excited about it because it’s, it’s pretty, you know, it’s pretty new and different.

And let’s face it, that’s something the industry has needed for for a while. So… 

[00:22:43] Brian Searl: Do you think there’s-

[00:22:43] Rafael Correa: Yeah, some people are gonna- … 

[00:22:44] Brian Searl: do you think, you think there’s a chance they could rebel against personalization and they could demand a hi there in brackets on the email? Like 

I don’t know the names of a couple of the groups

[00:22:53] Michael Moore: Well, 

[00:22:53] Rafael Correa: some people are always gonna perceive it as you have too much of my information, right?

Like there’s-

[00:22:58] Brian Searl: Yeah …

[00:22:58] Rafael Correa: there’s, there’s a group of people that feel that way. I’m, I’m in the camp of, as long as you’re using it to make my life better 

[00:23:04] Brian Searl: Right … 

[00:23:04] Rafael Correa: y’all can have it. But, uh-

[00:23:06] Brian Searl: Which is what most people would be 

[00:23:07] Michael Moore: But, but like for in general as an industry, we have to be real sensitive to the guests we have now.

‘Cause like we’ve all- … we all know the occupancy is not what it was during COVID, post-COVID, et cetera. And so we have to be really sensitive to what our current guest, uh, wants, because let’s face it, no matter what industry you’re in, campgrounds or otherwise, repeat and referral is your number one source.

Like full stop. And so- 

[00:23:31] Rafael Correa: 100% … 

[00:23:31] Michael Moore: again, we, we have to make sure that we’re first and foremost catering to the guests we have. Uh, but again, AI absolutely has a place in that too. It’s just gonna be kinda interesting, interesting to see how far, how far it takes us. 

[00:23:45] Rafael Correa: So we just, we just hired a director of AI enablement and business solutions, kinda somebody to really just fully champion and kind of our AI implementation here at Blue Water.

And the, in the interview, uh, the candidate that ultimately got the position shared an, uh, his kinda philosophy on technology, which, uh, probably was the selling point, like what sold him to me was he goes, “Technology, when it’s done well, it feels like magic,” right? Like, the iPhone felt like magic because it took something that was so complicated and made it so simple and easy and frictionless.

And while in the background it’s very sophisticated and technically complicated, to the end user it just feels like magic. And like, and I was like, “That’s, that’s when we know we’re using AI the right way,” right? To take care of that guest that you’re talking about, Michael, is when they start feeling a little bit more magic in how we deliver our level of service to them.

[00:24:40] Rachel Godbout: I think we’re also gonna hit a point, you know, this topic right now feels a little bit like the dynamic pricing topic did five years ago, right? Where you, we had to explain, especially as operators being like, “Well, you see it in airlines, you see it in hotels, you see it in these places.” But the consumer’s already being exposed to it in almost every other platform.

You know? They’re, when you Google something, on Instagram, you don’t know what’s real, what’s not. On Facebook, same thing. Like, you have, uh, the general managers now making their own AI posters and putting them on their posts, right? So the consumer’s becoming exposed to it, and I think if, if it’s done well, to Rafal’s point, and it’s done strategically, they’re not going to be quite as afraid of it because they’ll be a little desensitized to it.

It’s out in the world. It’s not us shoving it down their throat and being like, “We’re the only ones doing this.” It’s just still a little new to them right now. But I think that, you know, by this time next year, we’re gonna have very different conversations on the use of AI. It’s still just very new, and if you ask most people now about dynamic pricing or rate management, then five years ago they didn’t know what it was and they didn’t wanna price gouge, they’re all doing it now, right?

It’s just that, that life cycle of familiarity. 

[00:26:02] Michael Moore: Well, and look, and I’ve told, I’ve told campgrounds literally as long as I’ve been around, like the industry is 5 to 10 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to technology. Doesn’t matter what it is. It’s just, there’s always a delay. You know, just because again, it’s hard to break in and, uh, campgrounds are, are always gonna be sort of hesitant, especially if you’re dealing with revenue and, and income and that kind of stuff, so.

[00:26:24] Brian Searl: Simon, what do you think over in, uh… What, what’s, what, what do the property management systems look like over in Europe compared to the US? I think you have a unique kind of cross perspective here 

[00:26:33] Simon Neal: Yeah, I mean, to talk about the existing market, it is pretty different. You have kind of lots of isolated regions, um, for the PMS systems themselves.

It was very much a local sort of PMS company who would have their market very close to their physical location, and then the same, uh, spread out across Europe and the different countries. That’s started to change now in the last two, three years. You’ve got some big companies coming in, a bit like the Campspots, the Newbooks, who are now starting to hoover up all of this market across the European space.

But it’s a bit different because the, the selling in Europe is a lot different from the US model. I would say a lot of it is dominated by channels and marketplaces. So if you have a UK customer base, they’re gonna be finding your campground, whether it’s in any European country, through a UK channel, like Pitchup marketplace, uh, or brands like Eurocamp.

Same thing in Germany, same thing in Holland. So any PMS or booking system has to be tied into all these channels, and that’s kind of what slowed down the implementation of this dynamic pricing and, and things like that, because you’re dependent so much on the channel that you’re restricted by what the channel actually allows you to do.

Um, but again, that’s starting to change with these big companies that are coming in who actually are gonna be big enough with a big enough market share to say, “Actually, we’re now the channel, uh, and we’re gonna help you sell in that way,” which hasn’t been possible really to date. Uh, so that’s the major differences.

I think in terms of features and other things, it’s probably pretty similar. There’s not much different. It was really just kind of the selling channels 

[00:28:16] Brian Searl: Where do you feel like, uh, the European market needs to go to be able to serve its guests in five, 10 years? Like, what, what advancements do you see campgrounds or campsites over there asking for that they don’t have yet?

[00:28:28] Simon Neal: I think it’s a lot what’s been talked about. So the automation and check-in, seamless booking experience, and that’s been pushed pretty heavily. So you can turn up at the campground, the barrier’s gonna open, it’s recognizing your number plate already. You’re going to your cabin. Uh, with the app, you’re gonna oc- unlock the door.

So these sorts of things have started to be popping up already. Uh, we will work with a couple of partners to do that, and that’s really being pushed heavily. So I think it is that, you know, seamless experience on the arrival side. I think booking is pretty good already. Um, yeah, and I think just, uh, again, choice and personalization.

[00:29:09] Brian Searl: Yeah, I think, I mean, I don’t, I don’t know that there’s much room to, and maybe Raf you have a different opinion or, or Rachel, uh, I don’t think there’s much room to reinvent the booking piece of it itself other than the medium through which it happens, which will not be a computer and mouse in five years, I don’t think.

Like, some people will still be there, right? But it’ll be voice, it’ll be chat, it’ll be your Tesla screen in your car. It’ll be like, I don’t know, whatever, you drive by a billboard and some- something scans in your Tesla and asks if you wanna book a steak if you look tired and you’re whatever, right? Who knows?

But so the medium of that changes, and thus the experience does, but I think the real innovation in booking engines or property management systems, I guess, is the right term, comes from those extra added features like license plate recognition, personalizing the guest, stuff like that. 

[00:29:53] Rafael Correa: You know, it’s, it’s, it’s funny that you mention that, Brian because I, I actually question This idea that people will just like outsource their vacation booking to, uh, AI and the reason being- 

[00:30:07] Brian Searl: Not everybody will. Some will … 

[00:30:09] Rafael Correa: I, I, I almost think that very, here’s the, here’s my, stick with me. Stick with me. 

[00:30:13] Brian Searl: Okay.

[00:30:14] Rachel Godbout: This gonna be good. 

[00:30:15] Rafael Correa: Like how fun is it to plan your vacation? Like that is probably one of the most fun things to do with yourself or with your spouse or with your kids, where you’re exploring your options, you’re imagining different scenarios.

Like that process is like in and of itself, it’s like visualizing winning the lottery. It’s like super fun. 

[00:30:37] Brian Searl: I’m with you but my girlfriend is the opposite of you. So I’m saying like you’re right, I’m on your side- 

[00:30:44] Rafael Correa: Yeah … 

[00:30:44] Brian Searl: and I think there’s a cert- I think there’s a certain people, number of people who outs- And then think of the people who also love to be surprised.

Can AI pick something that I would have never found before that’s gonna delight me? 

[00:30:54] Rafael Correa: Totally. Will it be used for research? 100%. Like but will it actually be the vehicle to which you’re like, “All right, I just need to book a campground,” you know, plug it in, go book a, go book a trip for me. No. But like for the research part, totally agree with you so that’s why it’s important that we show up and all those things, but I think that there’s so much joy involved in the planning process that it’s will be very human in the loop because of that.

[00:31:20] Rachel Godbout: Well, and again, back to the dynamics of our industry, like you would have to be looking at the preference of somebody’s site orientation, right? Or do they like to be in the back of the park? Do they prefer to be closer to the playground? Do they… You know, there are so many variables when somebody does make a booking.

I think it would be hard… Well, I don’t know. I don’t develop AI. But I mean, uh, I think it would be hard for it to get to a point where it is completely bookable. I could see the recommendations. I 100% would be someone who’s like, “Hey, I wanna take a trip. I don’t wanna take the time to look up all these different things.

Give me a potential three options with an agenda. Here are the things that I like.” I would love that all day long, but I think to actually execute that booking and have a satisfaction rate where it did become the primary vehicle for booking, I’m a little hesitant there. 

[00:32:17] Brian Searl: No, you’re not wrong. Like, I think, but that’s where it has to grow into, and you’re right, it is a very hard problem.

But it’s taking AI and using it to build things that can enable you to gather the correct data in a altruistic, helpful way on your guest that you can then understand that this guest has stayed with me five times before, and they always pick the back of the park. They always want a back-in site, and they always want something quiet, and then it becomes helpful, right?

[00:32:39] Rachel Godbout: Existing guests, completely agree. Your new guest, I think, is where the challenge would be. 

[00:32:45] Brian Searl: For sure. Yep. Uh, but then it, it depends on how we end up, like i- is the player end up, the, the wins, does that end up being a Campspot or a Newbook who it represents hundreds or thousands of the properties, and then do they have that aggregated data that they can cross-reference and recommend somebody or, I don’t know.

Like, what do you think, Scott? 

[00:33:05] Rafael Correa: I mean, sca- scale always helps, but- 

[00:33:07] Brian Searl: Yeah. What do, what do you think, Scott, from a behavioral consumer standpoint? Where do we need to go, or are we already there, or what should we consider? And you’re muted, Scott. Scott, you’re muted, I think 

[00:33:20] Rafael Correa: You’re hitting us with so much genius that your mic’s not picking it up 

[00:33:26] Scott Bahr: I was, I had dogs barking earlier, sorry. Um

[00:33:29] Brian Searl: That’s okay.

[00:33:30] Scott Bahr: But you can’t read lips. Um, anyway, the, uh, in some of the research that I’ve done on this topic, on, um, not, not all the ins and outs of it, but what I call booking risk, there’s risk in everything we do obviously. But, um, what we found is that the, the more sophisticated traveler, the person who has a lot of moving parts, the person that ha- that is, has the most skin in the game, the person who’s the most avid traveler assigns the most risk to what they do to, to booking a trip, and thus wants to be much more hands-on and, and involved than the person who isn’t, who’s less involved, who maybe is like, “Okay, this is just a, maybe a weekend trip,” and I’m kind…

You know, they’re, they’re just not as into it. There aren’t as many moving parts. Um, they, in, in, in, from what we saw, that that person, that’s the person that is much more likely to turn it over to an AI, to allow that automation to, to go a lot further for them versus, again, that person that’s booking that, that more sophisticated trip, the m- the, the more skin in the game they have.

And I like, uh, you know, the idea too that you brought up, uh, um, about, um, how people are into it. We actually did a re- a, a study a couple years ago with teens and trip planning and found that the group of teens that were involved in the actual hands-on planning of the trip were much more, um, into the trip.

They liked the, th- they enjoyed themselves a lot more. Um, they were much more engaged in the trips themselves. And so, uh, there’s a lot to be said for that. So yeah, that’s, those are just a couple things that we’ve looked at in this. And I, you know, there’s obviously a place for, for everything and, and I think, you know, to a degree that even for the more sophisticated traveler, at least the surface part maybe, I think, you know, Rachel, you mentioned doing some research and stuff, that people will use it for that.

But they, they wanna dig in themselves and, and do it, um, too. So. 

[00:35:35] Brian Searl: Well, let me ask, let me ask this question. Um, I think it, this is different when the answer is it’s the destination is the resort. Like, if you’re owning a, if you’re operating a big huge Yellowstone and you’re coming there to stay there for the weekend and you’re not gonna leave, and the pool and the waterpark and the, everything’s there, right?

That, the answer’s different. But for, I would say the majority of what a typical RV park or campground or glamping resort is, there’s been a big push, at least maybe from me and Scott and other people in this industry too, that have said, like, experiences matter more to the younger generations, to people who are being more choosy with their money.

It’s not just where you put your head at night, it’s how do you curate an experience, how do you, like, explain what to do in the local area. What the trip is built around the experiences they’re having in the area, and then you come back to the campground and lay your head down for the night, whether it’s in a cabin or an RV So if that’s the case, and AI is curating the trip or they’re interested, as you say, Raf, in planning the trip themselves, arguably one could say they’re more interested in planning the experiences around the campground, making the decision of where to- which campground to stay at something they might casually say, “Just go find for me.”

[00:36:42] Rafael Correa: I think it’s possible. I think it all comes down to what, what your driver is and what your motivation, uh-

[00:36:47] Brian Searl: Yeah …

[00:36:47] Rafael Correa: at the end of the day is. But, you know, my, you know, I think, I think it was Rachel that said it and Michael also said it, is like taking care of that existing customer, having the right vibe on the campground so that people are recommending it, whether that’s in person or they’re via- through their reviews.

Like, all of those things are ultimately gonna drive what you’re talking about, where maybe the campground, the, the, the stay is secondary to the destination. Then the AI that they’re gonna out- outsource that to is gonna rely on the, the, the vibes that people are putting out online about that property, right?

And that’s gonna come in the form of past guest reviews, which is like, going back to Rachel and Michael’s points, is just on property execution, right? And then making sure that people have such a good time that they bother to leave you a positive review that informs that, that person that you’re referring to 

[00:37:40] Brian Searl: Phil, Eleonore, how do you see this from the RV industry side?

And then we’ll pivot to the, to talking a little bit about what Raf suggested before the show. 

[00:37:48] Phil Ingrassia: Well, I think, you know, um, from the RV perspective, certainly the dealers are going through some of the same, um, the same things that the campground is. Uh, in fact, at our upcoming convention, we’ve got a several AI, uh, related workshops, and one of them is on dynamic pricing.

There are a number of companies that are involved with that, um, and it’s, it’s, uh, it’s something the dealers are trying to get their arms around as well. I think on the, on the other side of the coin too, you gotta kinda get into the psychographics. Um, one of our manufacturers today or l- late yesterday put out a news release talking about how they’re going to focus on selling, um, more of the experience of RV travel, the bonding that occurs, the networking, the, the stuff that occurs in the campgrounds and, and at, you know, tailgating events or whatever they’re using the RV for.

And they cited an American, um, Psychology Association study showing that half of all Americans feel disconnected from their surroundings. Okay? Now, I can never remember a m- RV manufacturer referencing psychographics in a news release, but it, it’s showing you that we need to, you know, adapt that experience to where people are right now, and if AI’s gonna help do that, whether it’s through, um, you know, the kind of unit they wanna buy or the experience they have at the campground, I think it’s just another tool in the toolbox.

It certainly doesn’t, um, substitute for the, the personal experience, but I, I do think it’s interesting that you guys are talking about some of the same things that the dealers are talking about when they’re trying to deal one-on-one with customers or through the online portals that they have 

[00:39:55] Brian Searl: Eleonore, what do you think?

[00:39:57] Eleonore Hamm: I would agree. I mean, it’s, it’s the, the experience, so the guest experience has become so much more than just what the unit am I buying. So it’s similar, like, yes, I may be going to this campground, but my whole trip is about the experience. So, you know, same as an RV buyer, I’m, I want the experience, so which RV is going to help me f- do that?

Uh, but ultimately, you know, dealers are, you know, are struggling, like, where, how is the best way to use AI, you know? Are they, are, you know, to answering the phone? Or is it gonna answer my question, uh, quickly? Is it, uh, you know, do my, am I using it on my website? Um, how, where am I finding my consumers, right?

Like, that’s another thing, because we know that there are fewer in the marketplace at the moment. Um, so they’re all trying to, um, I guess, wade their way through uh, this new, uh, this new communication method. Um, and, uh, you know, hopefully they’ll get some, some learning, some, they’ll learn a few things at our convention.

But it is still very new. I think it still scares them quite a bit. Um, but ultimately, you know, we keep referencing experiences, and that’s, I think, what people are going to want, regardless of whether they’re in the younger demographic or, you know, have been going somewhere, um, you know, for quite a long time.

It’s, it’s still going to be what, what, what happens and, and what, what they’re doing as an RVer. 

[00:41:15] Brian Searl: Well, let’s talk about those consumers for a second. Raf, you had pitched an idea that, before the show. We, I’ll let you lead with it. You explain it. 

[00:41:22] Rafael Correa: Yeah, I, so, you know, we share a consumer, right? We deliver two different services, or you deliver a product and we deliver a, you know, a, a service to some degree, but I’m really curious from the dealer association perspective, kind of what are the biggest, now that we’re in this kind of lean time and we’re all kind of trying to find another gear, what are the dealers doing, that’s my first question, that’s new and different from what they’ve done for years past?

And then my other question, number two, is, is like, have you heard of any other collaboration opportunities f- for campgrounds and dealers, like, that, where we can connect and help connect that consumer and deliver a more turnkey experience, uh, from kind of purchase through their first stay, getting comfortable and falling in love with the lifestyle?

[00:42:16] Phil Ingrassia: Well, I’ll, you know, I think one of the things that dealers are really focused on, the successful dealers that I talk to all the time, is taking the hassle factor out of buying and owning an RV. Um, and thankfully, you know, you have park management systems, we have dealer management systems, and we’re starting to measure that repair event cycle time, you know, from the time they drop it off to the time they pick it up.

[00:42:42] Scott Bahr: Mm. 

[00:42:42] Phil Ingrassia: Shortening that time, working with the manufacturers, suppliers to get these people back on the road so that they can, they can enjoy their, their unit. So that’s one of the things I think that they’re focused on. I think, you know, obviously it’s soft for sales. Um, but The de- you know, the demand to travel is still there, as, as you know at the parks.

So, um, but they’re keeping them longer, so that means service has gotta be even, even better. So I think that’s one of the things that the, the dealers are starting to focus on, is their fixed operations, as we call it, part of the shop. The other thing, as far as collaboration is, uh, you know, I think that they’re looking at other types of buyers that maybe weren’t, um, front and center just a few years ago.

Um, we just, uh, had somebody out, and we’ll have this in our s- uh, September issue of our magazine coming out in a few weeks, but this, this overland camping thing that’s going on right now, where people are looking for a more rustic experience. And I know some campgrounds provide that. Others, that’s the, that’s not what they do.

But I do think that it doesn’t have to be an either/or, you know, because you could, you can do both. You can have the rustic experience in some of these units, but you can also set it up at, at a more traditional campground. So I do think that that’s something we’re gonna be looking at, uh, very closely in the coming years and months, because, um, dealers need to diversify that customer base, um, to-

to reach this new, you know, this new buyer that’s out there. Some of them want a little bit more of a rustic experience. Others do both, and then others don’t. So, you know, how do you mix that all together? And the product mix is changing, too. You know, the affordability factor, you know, it used to be you, slides.

More slides, more slides. Well, guess what? They’re backing those out, because what are slides? They’re heavier. They break down more, creates more of a hassle, and some people don’t want all that. Mm. So, you know, the pendulum is swinging back a little bit there as well, so- 

[00:45:00] Rafael Correa: Less moving parts. 

[00:45:01] Phil Ingrassia: A less comp- right a less complicated product that can be, uh, more, uh, more affordable, easier to store, and won’t break as often. So, you know, that’s kinda what I’m hearing from dealers right now. 

[00:45:19] Eleonore Hamm: Yeah.

[00:45:19] Rafael Correa: Good insights.

[00:45:20] Eleonore Hamm: Affordability for sure is, is obviously an issue, um, for, for us. And, you know, you, you think of in… I mean, in Canada, the majority of the units are manufactured in the States, so we do have an exchange rate, uh, that, um, you know, hasn’t been overly favorable these days.

Uh, so it does make product pretty expensive, and so y- you’re seeing some of the dem- you know, maybe the younger demographics as well looking for exactly what Phil said, you know, lighter units, uh, more affordable. Um, they don’t necessarily want all of the features. They don’t have the tow vehicles necessarily to tow something that is that heavy.

So they want something that’s lighter, uh, more flexible, gives them the opportunity to maybe stay in a resort or a property, but also, you know, there’s a lot of land in Canada. So um, we’ve got a lot of crown land that you can visit. And so, you know, the opportunity to perhaps go and, and travel that way, to travel, travel different ways.

So it’s kind of flexibility, uh, but also affordability. And so I think, uh, you know, our dealers, when they’re looking at what they’re bringing in in terms of product, I mean, they’re definitely taking those two things into consideration.

[00:46:19] Rafael Correa: I appreciate that perspective. 

[00:46:20] Rachel Godbout: I would be really interested in the demographics of those changes, like the demographics and meaning wh- who is the consumer that wants the less dynamic RV?

Are they transient, weekenders, long-term? What age? I… That’s very fascinating to me to see what that shift would be and who the consumer is for those, you know, the smaller, lighter tow vehicles. Is it a younger- Single person-

[00:46:48] Phil Ingrassia: Right. Well, Go RVing …

[00:46:49] Rachel Godbout: is a family 

[00:46:50] Phil Ingrassia: Go RVing in US has done some research in that area, and traditionally, you know, you see this research, and I know Scott’s got some of it too, where you just throw people in age buckets, and-

[00:47:00] Rachel Godbout: Mm

[00:47:00] Phil Ingrassia: that’s how, where it’s at right now. It’s more on their lifestyle. 

[00:47:05] Rachel Godbout: Yeah. 

[00:47:05] Phil Ingrassia: Um, you- are they, are they, you know, uh, dual income, uh, no kids? Are they, do they have young kids at home? Don’t matter what their age. Are they older parents or grandparents traveling with ki- it, you gotta kinda throw out the age stuff and more on end usage, what they’re trying to do.

Um, are they, are they, uh, remote work- workers? Uh, no, digital nomad type people. So I think thinking about it verse, you know, our traditional, you know, well, generations, and we’ve all sat through those kinda workshops where they talk about this generation does this, this generation does that. That’s kinda out the window when you look at the buying profiles that are out there. 

What do you think on that, Scott? 

[00:47:54] Scott Bahr: Um, well f- first, if, if anyone’s an RVIA member, I have, uh, some research on this. Um, uh, life stage versus, um, generations. Um, I, I have a, an entire, um, segmentation, um, study that I did with that, and the, um, other part of that is the, um, the i- the idea that- Because you’re exactly right, Phil.

It’s like, the, what, what happens is, you know, depending on where someone’s at, their needs are different, their, their, what they want. Um, one of the things that we found too is simplicity, um, ease of use are, are big factors as well, ’cause the education component is a huge, uh, either barrier or can relieve that, um, tension as well, um, in terms of usage.

And this is across the industry, but particularly with RVing. Um, so yes, I have, I’ve done some of that, that research and I actually have a, um, a, a, a short paper I, I wrote. I, I don’t always put these out just because whatever. They, apparently they sit better in the, my tabs, um- … in Google Docs than they do b- by being distributed.

But it’s, it’s just a, a writeup on, uh, why, uh, life stage should be considered before generations.

[00:49:17] Rachel Godbout: Yeah.

[00:49:17] Scott Bahr: So, um, and I’d be willing to share that with anyone who’s interested. Um, I j- I literally just last week signed up for Substack and I’m, and I posted my first, um, article on it, so I’m, I’m gonna try to…

I’ve been forced into this by some people around me. 

[00:49:31] Rafael Correa: Scott, I wanna follow you. What’s the-

[00:49:32] Rachel Godbout: Yeah …

[00:49:32] Rafael Correa: what’s your handle on there? 

[00:49:34] Scott Bahr: It’s just me, my, it’s just my name. So- 

[00:49:36] Rafael Correa: All right, I’ll look for you. 

[00:49:38] Scott Bahr: The, my first article, Brian and I are gonna talk a, a little bit about on Outwired this afternoon as well. 

[00:49:44] Rafael Correa: Well, awesome. Congrats on that new channel. 

[00:49:46] Rachel Godbout: Yeah. 

[00:49:47] Scott Bahr: It sounds really geeky, but it’s really kind of part of what we all- 

[00:49:50] Rafael Correa: Nerds rule the world, buddy. 

[00:49:52] Scott Bahr: And, but yeah, I’ll, d- Phil, I’ll, I’ll share some of that with you, um, too, ’cause I know you’re, you know, obviously an RVIA member, so, um, anyone, a- and anyone who is, I can do that, or I can get permissions, um, from Bill and Monica as well to, to share some of that out.

[00:50:10] Phil Ingrassia: Great. 

[00:50:10] Brian Searl: Simon, do you see the same type of demographic changes in Europe that we’re kind of in- hinting at and seeing or changing in America, or is Europe just kind of more ahead of this curve? 

[00:50:20] Simon Neal: No, I think it’s pretty similar. Um, what Phil mentioned about the, the smaller vans, the overlanding type lifestyle, digital nomads has definitely grown a lot.

So I think in that respect it’s, it’s very similar. And also the similar pressures about, uh, cost of anything. To be more economic, um, more sustainable is a very big thing. 

[00:50:46] Brian Searl: Are you still having a good season over there in Europe? ‘Cause I remember when we first talked there was some concern early in the year, but then you said it picked up, right?

[00:50:53] Simon Neal: Yes. It was very hesitant up until May. Then May was really good and some latest results coming in, uh, Germany was a bit flat, but then Spain and Italy had a great season, uh, particularly on the, the peak summer holidays. They were up to 90%-plus occupancy, and actually campgrounds were outperforming hotels in both regions, so it’s pretty impressive.

[00:51:17] Brian Searl: Awesome. All right, let’s spend the last few minutes here, like, asking each other questions. I’ll turn the host over to you guys. So Simon, we’ll start with you since you just, uh, talked and answered that question. Like, do you have a question for anybody else here that you’d like to ask? 

[00:51:28] Simon Neal: Um, yeah, maybe Michael.

Uh, if you’re a members of TACO, is there, like, one thing that is the biggest concern at the moment above, above anything else? 

[00:51:38] Michael Moore: Uh, well, I mean, it’s a big state, so there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of problems. Um- … I would say, uh, you know, legislatively I know, uh, which is obviously, you know, for us, our number one sort of benefit, it’s, uh, the property taxes, uh, here.

Uh, because, uh, to, not to bore everyone, but, you know, the various, uh, jurisdictions kinda have their own method to assess properties. And so what ends up happening is, uh, these entities will see these valuations for these campgrounds, which hey, that’s great for the person that sold it, but that entity’s gonna see the campgrounds surrounded going, “Oh, they must all be worth this much,” and assess them that way.

And so we’re seeing people’s property taxes go up 2, 300% year over year. And so, um, you know, I would say that is just because it’s one of those things that you can’t really budget for, at least not, not smartly. You know, that’s not really fair to ask someone to double or triple their property tax. So, uh, beyond that, you know, uh, utility billing is always a, a big thing.

Uh, meaning people being charged, parks being charged for things that they shouldn’t be. Um, other than that, I mean, I would say in general, it’s, it’s the issues I think that are happening nationwide is, you know, occupancy’s down a little bit. Um, and you know, I, I’m glad we talked to, um, Phil and Eleonore kind of what the dealers are seeing, ’cause again, this is truly, let’s face it, one of the things that I think every entity of the industry can work together on is to get more people out there and camping.

That’s something we can all agree with. We don’t need to worry about, uh, the egos and the history when it comes to that. We all just want more people, so. Um, yeah. So like I said, I apologize for the very boring, uh, answer, but that’s what I would say is the big thing. 

[00:53:25] Brian Searl: All right. Michael, do you have a question for somebody else?

[00:53:28] Michael Moore: Uh, yeah, I guess, uh, probably for, for Raf and, and for Rachel, I mean, as operators of parks, you know, what are you guys using, um, to sort of learn what your current customers are, are liking about their stay, what they’re not liking? Like what kind of methodology are you using to improve kinda the operation side of things?

[00:53:52] Rachel Godbout: Um, for us it’s guest communication. A lot of guest communication on different mediums and platforms. Um- We do have an AI component to our system, which we are, uh, expanding on, but learning our consumer… The reason I asked about the demographics is because we are trying to currently correlate the certain types of demographics, whether it’s activity, lifestyle, age, whatever, to different elements of a park.

And then who is the positive guest user there? Who is the negative guest user? Where do we have better retention? Where do we lose people? Meaning if you’re an active lifestyle, you might be happier in, you know, Bryce Canyon versus somewhere else, right? And so we can hone our marketing in there. But we are focusing a lot on communication with the guest, um, leading into their stay, upon arrival, during the stay, after the stay, through reviews, uh, both from the onsite team, but through our systems.

So the point earlier, the guest feedback is, it’s gold. And so we’re using that to be able to better ourselves, but also kind of profile who our optimal consumers are and what we should be offering to those consumers. 

[00:55:08] Rafael Correa: Yeah, I th- I would echo the guest data, and data in general, right?

[00:55:12] Rachel Godbout: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:12] Rafael Correa: And, and all its shapes and forms have become a gigantic priority for us here at Blue Water, and, and we’re f- making sure that we’re tracking as much as we can with, you know, whether it’s the, the Google tags on where people are entering data, what they’re searching for, you know, all the way through what they actually are booking, right?

And that data that where they’re voting with their dollars at the end of the day. And then you have guest reviews. And so collating all that and doing analytics, you know, leveraging AI tools to do analytics that before were not really kind of fathomable for us to be able to do has been a lot of fun.

And so, you know, I just sat through, uh, an exercise that we do every year when we’re budgeting. You know, going f- One of the coolest parts about our industry is the kind of flexible nature of our inventory and being able to tweak it every year from, you know, whether it’s long-term or transient, or you make it a premium site, or you turn it into a park model, right?

And so these are levers that you can pull to really drive revenue. And so we do this highest and best use exercise where we’re really looking at each site intimately, and we’re understanding when the guests were voting with their dollars, you know, what did they choose? And why didn’t they choose these items that aren’t performing?

And how do we level that up? And so we’re, we’re adding levels of analytics to that, to that data now that weren’t possible before, and we’re s- finding some really unique insights, right? Because where something said, you know, on the surface would be like, “Oh, well, we need to change that to a cabin.” Well, when you start taking a look at your housekeeping costs in that particular market and what your actual GOP or your gross operating profit for adding that unit is, like, is it the best move for you, right, at the end of the day with the payroll costs and everything associated with it?

So not just looking at the revenue it’s generating, but what’s actually flowing through to the bottom line. So I would tell you that it’s all about data collection for us right now, and then u- deepening our into our, our deepening our understanding of what that data’s telling us. You know, we’re all just trying to be little Scotts, uh, over here at Blue Water.

[00:57:09] Brian Searl: All right, Rachel, do you have a question for anybody? 

[00:57:13] Rachel Godbout: I, I wanna, I really go back to Scott, to be honest, with the life stage versus generational information. Um, I am one of those people that will go down a data rabbit hole, uh, as much as I possibly can. Um, I like to make very strategic decisions based on, on information.

Um, what did you find out of that research that was surprising to you or unexpected? 

[00:57:41] Scott Bahr: Um, I think, you know, just from the top would be the idea that, you know, obviously for, for the last couple years we’ve talked a lot about Gen Z-ers and who that group is. Um, and the, the first, first and foremost what- W- I found in the research was that there are three major life stages that ma- that comprise Gen Z-ers that are fairly evenly distributed, too.

So anyone who treats Gen Z as, as a monolith is making a huge mistake, ’cause they’re not. It’s not even close. So, uh, and it ranges from the Gen Z-er who is still, um, living with their parents, to those who are fully into family life, and then the, then those who are transitioning, in that transition phase of their lives.

Um, and all three are very well represented across the board. So again, that, we, we treat them in some respects a- as, as the same, but each one of those groups has very different, uh, perspectives, very different needs, very different motivations for what they want, regardless of what they’re buying. It could be an air fryer or an RV or a campsite.

And, uh, so it’s, um, that to me was the, the biggest one. The, the older you get, the boomers are a little bit more monolithic and, and, a- and that’s not surprising, you know? Um, w- you know, you got the retirees and so on. But, um, the, that, that to me was first and foremost what, what came out. But also in some respects, some of the similarities you see between Gen Z-ers and boomers, um, and I’ve seen this in other research too.

Mm. I think that’s another paper I could write. Um, it’s, um, it, there’s, there are similarities there that would surprise people, I think, um, a- as well, so. 

[00:59:34] Brian Searl: Do you have data on the differences between air fryer preference among Gen Z? 

[00:59:39] Scott Bahr: Yes, I actually do. I did a study, I did a study on home appliances, that’s why it was top of mind.

So anyone who wants to know, it’s like, yeah, we, we, we know that. 

[00:59:48] Rachel Godbout: That’s awesome. 

[00:59:50] Brian Searl: All right, Scott, do you have a question for somebody else? 

[00:59:52] Scott Bahr: Eleonore, I, uh, uh, quickly, I know ’cause we’re, uh, almost out of time here, but right before we got on the, this t- uh, show today, I, I saw a blurb that said shipments to Canada were up 18%, RV shipments.

One, is that, is that true? I- and is it relevant? And if so, what’s going on up there? 

[01:00:14] Eleonore Hamm: Okay, so what you have to keep in mind is that the shipment data goes to the end of June Uh, same as our retail stats right now. But the shipment data to the end of June is up this year because if you remember June of 2025, we had, uh, retaliatory tariffs that were coming in on-

[01:00:30] Scott Bahr: Mm-hmm

[01:00:30] Eleonore Hamm: all motorized units. So there was, um, a very, there were, there were no shipments essentially into Canada for that second quarter. So it’s a bit misleading, um, in terms of, I mean, we’re still down about 1%, just over 1% in new unit sales f-

[01:00:46] Scott Bahr: Okay …

[01:00:46] Eleonore Hamm: uh, from June of 2026 over 2025. 2025 was probably the softest years that we’ve ever had since we’ve been collecting this data, so you know, w- we’ll probably finish sort of on par with 2025, but it was just because of that, there are no retaliatory tariffs in the second quarter of 2026, w-

[01:01:05] Scott Bahr: Okay

[01:01:05] Eleonore Hamm: which makes it look extremely strong. Especially if you look on the motorized-

[01:01:09] Scott Bahr: Yeah …

[01:01:09] Eleonore Hamm: you know, because that was where the tariffs were in place. 

[01:01:13] Brian Searl: So next year, 2027, there’s gonna be a strong September is what you’re saying. 

[01:01:18] Eleonore Hamm: Well, hopefully there’s a strong every month, 

[01:01:21] Brian Searl: but. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let’s be cognizant of everybody’s time, and let’s just wrap up briefly.

Uh, Eleonore, where can they, final thoughts and where can they find out more about RVDA of Canada? 

[01:01:29] Eleonore Hamm: Yeah. Well, always visit our website rvda.ca, and we’ve also got our Go RVing Canada website, which is gorving.ca for, you know, consumer information and some of the studies that we’ve done there. But, uh, yeah, and, uh, they can always email us as well at info@rvda.ca. Thank you. 

[01:01:45] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here. Rafael? 

[01:01:47] Rafael Correa: So yeah, uh, bwdc.com. That’s Bravo Whiskey Delta Charlie.com. And my parting thought is, uh, to encourage everyone who’s listening to get involved with their state association, their national association, if you’re a dealer, with your dealer association, if you’re a manufacturer, with the industry association.

We are, you know, at those levels, we are starting to find better ways to collaborate with each other because, again, we’re all needing the business. We all need to find a new gear. We all need to help promote this lifestyle, uh, and, and remind people why it’s such an awesome way to travel. And so the, we do that much better, uh, with strength in numbers.

So I think that association membership, association collaboration, uh, at the national and state level, uh, and international level with our friends in Canada, is probably more important than it’s ever been, and I strongly encourage everybody to, uh, participate, um, in any way they can. 

[01:02:47] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, sir.

Uh, Rachel, final thoughts, and where can they learn more about AOM or RJourney or whatever you wanna promote? 

[01:02:53] Rachel Godbout: Um, well, I wanna thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. Um, and I can’t really follow up to Raf’s closing thoughts any better, because it is very true that we all have to be involved.

We have to challenge each other, better each other, uh, educate each other, and support each other, and the industry will continue to grow. So, um, yes, please join the associations, um, state and, and national. Um, feel free to vote for the national board of directors. Um, but- 

[01:03:25] Brian Searl: Any suggestion who we should vote for?

[01:03:26] Rachel Godbout: You know what?

[01:03:26] Rafael Correa: Rachel 2026.

[01:03:28] Rachel Godbout: Yes. Yes, me, I’ll take it. Um, yeah. So thank you very much. Uh, you can find out more about us on advancedoutdoormgmt.com. 

[01:03:39] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here. Uh, Scott, final thoughts, and where can they learn more about Cairn Consulting? 

[01:03:43] Scott Bahr: Uh, cairnconsultinggroup.com. You can also find me on Substack now.

I will try to post a lot more stuff. I have a… I, I do have a ton of material that I can post on there, and I’m actually kinda happy to, to start doing this. So- 

[01:03:56] Brian Searl: You know I got banned from Substack? 

[01:03:58] Scott Bahr: What’s that? 

[01:03:59] Brian Searl: I got banned from Substack. 

[01:04:01] Rafael Correa: No surprises there.

[01:04:02] Scott Bahr: That’s what I’m saying. Oh, wow. 

[01:04:03] Brian Searl: I was ex-

[01:04:04] Rachel Godbout: What’d you do?

[01:04:04] Brian Searl: I was ex-per- I was experimenting with, like, SEO auto-generated articles, like, four years ago, and I published one and they flagged it. Like, I have one article on there, so they shut down my account and won’t let me open a new one with my email address. 

[01:04:17] Rachel Godbout: Wow. 

[01:04:17] Scott Bahr: Well… 

[01:04:18] Brian Searl: So whatever. Read it on my blog.

[01:04:20] Scott Bahr: I would try-

[01:04:21] Brian Searl: Anyway. Sorry. Were you finished? Go ahead, please.

[01:04:22] Scott Bahr: I have to abuse that. So you can, um, well, l- look for new material there. Um, I’ll be, I’ll be posting more, more of that. And, um, yeah, stay tuned. Stay tuned for, for more research coming out this, this fall. So we’ll, we’ll, uh, we’ll try to keep everybody, um, in- informed.

[01:04:42] Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Scott. Last but not least, Simon. 

[01:04:46] Simon Neal: Yeah, you can find us on campmap.com, uh, all information there, email address, or on LinkedIn 

[01:04:53] Brian Searl: Any final thoughts or that’s it? 

[01:04:55] Simon Neal: Uh, yeah, really excited about the new technologies coming in, new platforms. Interested to see how they work and look.

[01:05:02] Brian Searl: Awesome. 

[01:05:02] Rafael Correa: Will we see you this fall at conference season, Simon? 

[01:05:06] Simon Neal: Yep, I’ll be at the OHI and the KOA as well. 

[01:05:09] Rafael Correa: Look forward to seeing you, my friend. 

[01:05:11] Simon Neal: Yeah. 

[01:05:12] Brian Searl: Awesome. Well, thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. If you’re not sick and tired of hearing from me and Scott Bahr, we will be on, uh, Outwired in less than an hour.

We’re gonna be talking about patterns and how they impact your guests, and how you can help decipher and discern them, and Scott’s got a good paper on Substack about it, so… Uh, other than that, we will see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Thanks, guys. I appreciate your time. 

[01:05:32] Rachel Godbout: Thank you.

[01:05:33] Rafael Correa: Thank you.

[01:05:33] Simon Neal: Bye. Bye. 

[01:05:34] Scott Bahr: Bye