MC Fireside Chats – August 5th, 2026

[00:00:45] Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name’s Brian Searl with Insider Perks, and I left my other thing in there on the laptop, so now there’s two of me up on the screen. That’s gonna be interesting. I’ll take myself off in a second. But, uh, welcome to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

We’re excited to be here for our first week episode. We normally talk about industry data, trends, insights, all that kind of stuff on today’s show. So we got a couple of our recurring guests who are usually with us always. On this first week we got Raf, let you go introduce yourself in a second. Rafa uh, Scott Bahr, Phil Ingrassia, and a new recurring guest who’s gonna join us every first week here, Michael Moore, who I’ll give extended time to you, Michael.

You have to compress your life story into about 30 seconds and just kind of play around and be prepared with that. We’ll let you go last. Um, but- 

[00:01:26] Michael Moore: Yeah … 

[00:01:26] Brian Searl: introduce yourself. Tell us what you can bring to the table, ’cause there’s a lot that you got, that you’ve been doing, and you’ve been involved in the industry for a long, long time, so excited to have you here.

And then two special guests, Derry, uh, and, um, sorry, I forgot your name, man. It’s too small to read. McKay. 

[00:01:41] McKay Quinn: McKay. 

[00:01:42] Brian Searl: And Miguel is here too maybe. He popped off, so, uh, I’m old, okay? Don’t blame me. I forget everybody’s name every week. So, all right, let’s, uh, briefly go around, just introduce ourselves. Raf, you wanna start?

[00:01:53] Rafael Correa: Yeah, no, absolutely. Good to see everybody. Glad to be back. I know I’ve been, you know, a little bit out of, uh, missed a couple months here of some travel, vacation and, you know, just summer fun. But, uh, excited to be back on. Rafael Correa. I’m the President and CFO of Bluewater Hospitality, and we are a owner/operator manager of RV resorts.

We do third-party management. We have our own owned portfolio, uh, concentrated in the, uh, RV space. We also have a small hotel portfolio of about eight hotels, uh, that we own and manage. Um, and on the RV side, our portfolio is 64 properties, uh, under management. So yeah, excited to be here. 

[00:02:31] Brian Searl: Welcome, sir. Thanks for being here.

Appreciate you. Uh, uh, Phil, you wanna go next? 

[00:02:35] Phil Ingrassia: Sure. Phil Ingrassia, President of the RV Dealers Association. We represent, uh, US motor home and travel trailer dealers across the country. 

[00:02:45] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here as always, Phil. Scott Bahr? 

[00:02:48] Scott Bahr: Uh, Scott Bahr, President of the Cairn Consulting Group. We are a market research organization working primarily in outdoor hospitality, outdoor recreation.

Um, yeah, great to see everybody again. 

[00:03:02] Brian Searl: Yeah, thanks for being here again, Scott. Uh, and last but not least, our new entrant to the recurring guest space, Michael Moore. 

[00:03:10] Michael Moore: Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian. Uh, my name’s Michael Moore. Uh, I wear a couple different hats. One is, uh, working with the Texas Association of Campground Owners, uh, or TACO as we like to call it, uh, the biggest, uh, depending on who you ask, Florida, uh, campground association in the country.

And then, uh, we also have our marketing division, for-profit division called Camping with Guest Guides, where, uh, we work with 1,000 campgrounds all over the country in one form or another, but primarily providing kinda marketing material, check-in material, that kind of stuff. So yeah, thanks for having me. 

[00:03:44] Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Michael. I have one question for you before we get to Miguel to hop on and let him introduce himself.

Do you find that there’s any branding issues now that Trump always chickens out or The tacos. I’m just kidding 

[00:03:55] Michael Moore: Uh, no, no, we lean into it, man, believe me. We, we started doing, uh, at our convention Taco Tuesday to kinda kick it off, and that is always a big hit. So, uh, I invite anyone to come on, uh, come on by the TACO show in April and, uh, have some tacos.

[00:04:10] Brian Searl: All right. Sorry, I had to just get that one out there. I thought that was no politics there. Um, Miguel, please introduce yourself, sir. Welcome. 

[00:04:17] Miguel Huerta: Hello, everyone. Um, my name is Miguel Huerta. It’s, uh, it’s a blessing and a pleasure to, to be back on the show. Uh, I was on a work, uh, hiatus, let’s call it like that.

Um, I don’t know if you saw on social media and on TV, but, uh, the, the streets in Mexico, they were packed. Uh, people, they were, uh, throwing people in the air. Uh, they, they, they were doing some, uh, crowd surfing. It was great. It was great. Although not so much for the tourist industry in Mexico. Uh, I, so I have couple of insights.

But yeah, uh, it wa- it was a fun time to be around in Mexico. 

[00:04:58] Brian Searl: Glad to have you back, sir. Uh, and last but not least, our two special guests. Uh, McKay, you wanna go first? 

[00:05:03] McKay Quinn: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me on, Brian. My name is McKay Quinn. I’m the founder of Dwell Outdoor Hospitality. We’re a owner and operator of RV resorts in the Mountain West, uh, stretching from, uh, Wyoming and Idaho down into Utah and Arizona.

And, uh, we, we mostly own what we manage and, uh, excited to be here. We’re, uh, we’re leaning heavily into, um… We’ve launched a brand a couple weeks ago called Dwell RV Communities, and, uh, leaning into long-term RV living is a big part of what we’re doing. 

[00:05:39] Brian Searl: Awesome. Excited to have you here, sir. Last but not least, from across the pond.

Can I say across the pond even though it’s technically between France and the UK? 

[00:05:45] Derry Green: Yeah, we, we, we’re far across the pond. That’ll do. Yeah. Uh, yeah, so great to be back again, Brian. Um, my name’s Derry. I’m the founder of The Secret Garden Glamping. We’re the UK’s most followed, most viewed, and most booked glamping brand.

Um, we have five locations across the UK and now in Ireland as well, with a further six opening, uh, this year. Uh, I also am the president of GITA, the Glamping Industry Trade Association for the UK. Um, so working with lots of owner-operators and, uh, yeah, really exciting times over here. 

[00:06:20] Brian Searl: Which I’m a member of GITA too.

[00:06:22] Derry Green: There you go.

[00:06:22] Brian Searl: I don’t think I’ve done anything with my membership yet- … but I am a member, so. 

[00:06:26] Derry Green: Thank you. 

[00:06:27] Brian Searl: Coming when I have time. All right, so, uh, to our normal recurring guests, I kind of toss out this first question at the beginning of the show to, to Raf, to Phil, to Miguel, Scott, uh, Michael too, uh, now that you’re a recurring guest.

If you wanna weigh in, is there anything that’s come across your gentleman’s desk since we last got together you think we should be talking about, kind of primarily related to your data in, in industry insights, trends, and stuff like that? 

[00:06:52] Rafael Correa: Sure, I’d be happy to kick it off, um, and then pass it off to whoever wants to go next.

But, you know, from a Blue Water perspective, kinda what we’re seeing, our, our whole portfolio, we’re about up 8% over same time last year as a portfolio. Um, I would tell you that that’s eroded, uh, since early summer. I think we were at 12… 11, 12%. And of course, this is a mix of stabilized, uh, resort properties, more long-term stay properties that are in Texas, so it’s a very diverse pool of assets.

Um, uh, definitely we’ve had to work for it is the best way to describe it. Uh, it’s not, it’s not coming easy, and I think this is, you know, the tough times start to really kind of show you what you’re made of in a lot of ways, and I’m, you know, been very pleased and, and, and proud of my team for what they’ve been able to accomplish in this kind of like you gotta fight, f- fight for every piece of market share that you get.

Um, the drag is definitely on the RV side. Uh, transient RV side to be specific. You know, seasonal RV, we’ve sold a lot more seasonal RV. That trend, I’m sure everybody’s hearing it, it’s a, it’s a big component that, of kind of what’s created some of the stability for this year. Uh, vacation rentals, on the other hand, are doing really well, uh, and performing strong.

And the, obviously, the distribution that we have, uh, through all the other, you know, vacation rental platforms has been very helpful, uh, and contributed significantly to exposing people to this type of stay and travel. And so, um, you know, on the park model side of the business, ’cause we also are in that world, um, we’ve seen…

We’ve had a good year, I wouldn’t say a great year, uh, but it’s been steady. Uh, and what we are seeing is a lot of renewed interest, and I think it correlates to what we’re seeing on our stay patterns where people are really liking the VRs. We’re seeing a lot of bigger projects come back to life and bigger orders that are in the kind of planning phase, where people are asking for proposals for, you know, 10, 20, 30, and sometimes even up to 50 units, uh, that they wanna deploy out there because I think they see the, the value add that park models can bring to RV resorts or, or other facilities that can leverage that type of accommodation.

So I would say the other kind of neat observation that we’ve seen this year is, um, September is, uh… August, where Labor Day was last year, uh, is now fully into September this year. And so we were expecting to see a drop-off in A- uh, sorry, am I getting that backwards? I think Labor Day is in August this year, right?

[00:09:18] Brian Searl: Maybe you’re– I’m in Canada, man, I don’t know. 

[00:09:21] Rafael Correa: That’s right, you don’t even… Yeah, you have silly holidays. Regardless, it moved from one month to the other. The point being is that the, the month that it left we were expecting to have a drop off, but it’s actually been very strong. And so both August and September are looking really good to finish the season off strong, which is, uh, was a neat and, uh, and welcome, uh, signal that we’re seeing from people that are still planning RV trips.

So I’ll, I’ll take a pause there. 

[00:09:47] Brian Searl: I’m curious from your perspective, uh, Raf, if you’re willing to share, like why, why do you think or do you have a sense of, if you don’t know, why transient RV is, is weaker? Because I think I’m seeing that, and I think Scott would say he’s seeing that too, uh, across not, like on a macro level across the industry, not a micro level.

There are certain places that are doing good with it, right? 

[00:10:07] Rafael Correa: That question just tells me that you don’t drive a diesel truck.

So how is your EV? You’re looking real smart right now, right? Um, you know, I think that that’s, I think that’s a big factor, right? Is that, that longer trip, um, you know, I live in a community also where, uh, sport fishing is a huge hobby and activity. And so these, to fill these giant, you know, 50, 60-foot sport fishing boats is, is not an inconsiderate, or not a, not a, um, a small matter.

So the, even we’re seeing it even there. Like the, the boats are leaving the dock less, uh, because of what it costs to, to fuel and do a, a day of fishing. It’s just, it’s gotten so expensive. And so I think that that’s, you know, probably by far the thing that’s got people spooked and even more than the reality of the cost implication, uh, for what is still affordable way to travel, it is, um, it’s the perception, right?

Of like, I’m not sure, I don’t feel safe spending money and, you know, and so I want to be more guarded with my spend. And so that’s the, that’s definitely, you know, my perception of it. I don’t know, uh, and I think in- inherently by selling a lot more long-term stays and seasonal stays, there’s some natural cannibalization that’s happening there as well.

Like that person who would’ve traveled is now just staying at one RV resort. And so there’s all those factors are at play, um, you know, that in my opinion are what, are the primary reasons that people are uncomfortable making, uh, more booking commitments. 

[00:11:37] Brian Searl: So I mean, this is what interests me and like I, and I, and then we’ll move on to somebody else ’cause I don’t want to monopolize the show, right?

But like just generally speaking, this is what int- this is what interests me. Do you think then, and I understand gas prices are the thing, diesel is higher than gasoline and so I’m, I’m with you on all that and I don’t own a car by the way, uh, at all. So I just piggyback and hi- uh, hitchhike on my girlfriend’s car.

But, uh, it, it- I have a sense that your second point with the uncertainty, with the cutting back, with the increased costs of everything in everybody’s lives that’s maybe just starting, maybe peaking, whatever it is, uh, is more of a factor in my belief, and I’m not saying I’m right, but just my belief, than is the temporary diesel prices.

Because if it was just temporary, and I know, I know you’re not saying it is, so I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, right? Um, if it was just the diesel prices, then you would expect that once diesel prices come back down, which may or may not happen this week, tomorrow, the 88 times previously that we’ve had peace, or next month, or next year, or whenever that is, uh, then RVing would naturally come back.

But do we think that’s the case, that it’s just that suppression, or is it more factors? 

[00:12:49] Rafael Correa: No, and that’s, that’s kinda why I also expanded that to say the perception, right? Like, I think the exacerbated fuel prices is just one more reason people are already somewhat guarded about their pocketbook and being more conscientious of how they’re spending.

You know, although, you know, Wells Fargo pub- published some data that, you know, they see paychecks going up ’cause they see all the direct deposit activity, and they see that the direct deposits are outpacing, you know, the cost of living. And so, that the raises are coming through, and that they see spend, you know, continuing to be strong.

And so I’m not sure what the, you know, what is it the, the RVer psychology that might still not be there, right? ‘Cause that’s a subset of the data that Wells Fargo’s probably looking at. Um, but, you know, my, my assumption, my, you know… And, and I think this is all still post-COVID hangover, right? Uh, you know, we’re still not through it completely, you know, in my honest opinion.

So you have both of those factors at play that, you know, my hope as we return to the pre-COVID, you know, what we’ve been very accustomed to in this industry pre-COVID was, like, this very steady marginal growth rate every year that you could just kinda count on, right? And it went that way for years, and years, and years, and years.

And then COVID was this, like, you know, catapulted it, which put us in a bubble for, you know, lack of better terms, and now we’re, we’re recovering from that hangover. Uh, that bubble burst, and we are now seeing what the new growth trajectory is, and nobody has a really good feel of what that is, uh, or I think a really good idea of what that psychology of the, the average RVer that making them maybe RV less or choose to do something else, right?

Because it, it, that may also be what’s happening. It’s ’cause I think, you know, every airport that I’ve been to this summer has been packed, so it’s not like people aren’t traveling. 

[00:14:34] Brian Searl: Scott, do you have anything you wanna add to that or take it in a different direction? 

[00:14:37] Scott Bahr: Y- yeah. I mean, I th- it’s, it’s, uh- I think what we’re seeing right now are some really interesting, um, market dynamics and, and, um, changes.

And we’re, I think we’re just starting to see, um, how that’s gonna play out. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve done some, some research recently, and I, unfortunately I can’t share much of it with you, but one of the things I can say is that, um, what we’re seeing right now is that it appears that for many, that the, the type of travel they’re taking is less diversified, if that makes sense.

They’re not taking the same variety of trip types that we saw just a few years ago when we saw a lot of blended travel where people would, would, you know, have, you know, maybe stay at a short-term rental somewhere. Maybe they’d camp. Maybe they’d go to a resort. Um, and we saw a great deal of that happening.

It appears that that is narrowing, that, that people are less likely to take that variety of trips, more likely to take just one type. And that applies even to, like, distance traveled, where they’re much less likely to take trips of varying mileage and, and driving distance or travel distance away from home.

So not just the idea that they’re staying closer to home overall, but there’s less, they’re less likely to include trips of, of variety, for lack of a better way of, of, of putting it. So it seems like, and here, this is just me blabbering a little bit about it, but it feels a little bit like people as, as this, you know, these economic conditions are wearing on and wearing people down a little bit, that there’s some kind of comfort in just kind of knowing what you’re gonna do, knowing where you’re gonna go, what to expect, all those things.

The risk involved, I feel like we’re in a, a much more risk-averse environment right now, and that may… I could have probably saved myself a lot of time just by saying that. 

[00:16:42] Rafael Correa: Good word.

[00:16:46] Brian Searl: Uh, do you, do you feel like though that, like to me, if you’re an RVer and you own your RV and you regularly go camping two, three, four times a summer, maybe even longer, right? With the baseline, what, one to two trips a year is what the average is for in a, in a private campground at least. Um, if that’s your baseline, isn’t that already your comfort level though?

So why would, why would you back off of that? Wouldn’t you just stay closer to home like we’ve been talking about for a while? 

[00:17:12] Scott Bahr: Well, I mean, that’s a, that’s a fairly narrow part of the market, honestly. It’s, um, the, the, the rest of the market o- out there is, you know, there, there are a great number of people who take, you know, who, who did take, um, you know, this, these different types of trips.

And, um, it just seems like even when we ask questions about like reasons why or why not they do something or don’t do something, it, again, it’s much narrower. That in the past, and I’ve been, I’ve been super interested in this, this topic and I, so I’ve been, uh, looking at it in more detail, which is if someone tells you, like, “Why, why aren’t you gonna go camping this year?”

And we’ll pro- say we’ll have a whole list of reasons. In the past, a person may, it may be like all these things have to converge for them not to go. It’s like, ah, the kids got school, work’s a pain, um, oh, and the price of gas is a little much, so it’s like, ah, I’m not going. It’s, now it’s one thing. It’s typically one thing comes up.

Oh, it could be, ah, the, the kids got activities, or work’s a pain, or gas prices. So you’re not seeing the same, like the, the whole, like the algorithm that creates people, um, creates the, the situation where they will or won’t participate, a- again, has narrowed, which means it’s much less stable than it used to be.

That means that that person who in the past may have just taken one or two trips, now one thing can interfere with their trip and they won’t go, and that’s why the market is a little bit maybe all over the place at the moment. I know it’s, um, in some areas it’s doing well, some not so well, but overall, I, that’s kind of something that I’ve been looking into a little bit more and I feel like it’s, it, it’s, it’s fairly relevant too.

[00:19:06] Brian Searl: Does that get more stable into 2027, in your very early lack of data opinion, or does it become more wobbly? 

[00:19:15] Scott Bahr: It becomes more wobbly unless something changes. Sure. Um, if, if, if we’re on this path, it’s gonna become even more wobbly. So that’s, that’s why like when, when Ravi when you mentioned that, that we had to work harder, it’s kinda like I, I think there’s a lot of people that are gonna have to work harder.

It’s, I’m not saying it’s, it can’t be done. I’m not saying that at all. In fact, I think it’s very achievable. But yeah, y- you’re gonna probably have to work a lot harder to do that, to find those wobbly people and address that one reason, that one or two reasons that, that prevent them from, from, uh, coming out and staying with you or, you know, coming out at all or taking multiple trips even, is which what we’d like to see more of 

[00:19:56] Brian Searl: Michael, you have anything to add or you wanna change subjects? Or 

[00:19:59] Michael Moore: No, I mean, I think I, I probably echo what, uh, Raf and Scott said already. I mean, we’re seeing that in Texas too, where, um, the transient business has definitely seen a, a bit of a dip compared to the long-term business, which is absolutely what the campgrounds are sort of leaning into now. Uh, ’cause that’s where the, that’s where the need is, you know?

That’s where the demand is. So, and at the same time, you know, the accommodation side of things are doing very well. I mean, and that kind of jives with, you know, I was looking at the RBIA monthly shipment numbers. You’ve got the towables that are, you know, on a decline for the year, but then you’ve got the park models and accommodation units still going up, you know?

So I, I don’t know that this kinda trend that’s going on now, kinda like Scott said, I don’t think it’s, it’s gonna stop anytime soon. I think it’s gonna kinda, you know, spill over into early next year at a minimum. Um, and look, I think, you know, for, as far as a reason goes, let’s face it, camping had its kinda moment post-COVID, right?

Like it was, it was the cool thing and it was a hot thing and that kinda stuff. And so now it’s definitely kinda slowed down. And so, uh, uh, I just reiterate what everyone has said already, which is the campgrounds are gonna have to work probably doubly as hard to keep the business they have, let alone, you know, attract new business.

Because these campers, they’ve got other options, not just within the campground industry. I mean, there’s more campgrounds than there ever has been before, uh, but just another kind of travel accommodations too, whether it’s a flight, whether it’s a cruise or, or what have you. So yeah, I, I don’t know that I, I have anything different.

I think everything everyone has said is true and, uh, I think we all need to kinda accept it. 

[00:21:41] Brian Searl: Well, we don’t accept anything on this show, Michael. Phil, fix it. 

[00:21:45] Phil Ingrassia: Well, you know, uh, Rafael, I would just say that, um, being up 8% is, uh, something to be very proud of right now. Uh, I can tell you the RV dealers would be ecstatic- 

[00:21:58] Rafael Correa: Tickled. Yeah. … 

[00:21:59] Phil Ingrassia: if retail was up 8%. We’re going the other way. We’re probably gonna be down between 8 and 12%. Uh, Patrick Industries, which is a huge supplier to the, uh, RV manufacturers, came out with their retail, uh, g- uh, forecast late last week, and they’re, they’re between 280 and 300. And we went into this year thinking we might be 340 to 350.

So it’s been, it’s been soft. And, um, you know, I think a lot of it is just the consumer uncertainty that everybody’s talked about You know, for years, uh, so many things are wrapped up into consumer sentiment, right? I mean, gas prices, stock market, job security, all these things in consumer sentiment. Well, right now consumer sentiment is, is, as reported by the conference board, is not good.

And so that really takes its toll on discretionary purchases, whether it’s an RV, boat, even a power sports. So it’s, it’s definitely a challenging environment. It’s not a disaster, and I’m really glad to hear that, um, you know, there’s a lot of interest in seasonal camping, and we’ve heard a lot about that, not only from the private campgrounds, but also the public campgrounds.

State park systems are reporting, um, you know, packed over Fourth of July weekend and people, but they’re staying closer to home because of the gas price situation. So, uh, the other thing that I’ve been looking at is used sales, used RV sales, and they are not nearly as, um, down year over year as new. So what’s that tell us?

It tells us that people are still there. They still wanna buy, but they’re, they’re looking for more affordable alternatives maybe than new. And I’ll just say one more thing. Dealer inventory levels are in really good shape, but dealers are cautious. They’re not gonna be reorDerryng as, at a, at a pace that maybe the manufacturers would like to see.

Um, but you know, they’re gonna be waiting for those, uh, you know, late fall, early winter shows to start bringing more, uh, RVs onto the lot. And, uh, this geopolitical situation, as Scott was talking about, really needs to stabilize before, you know, anybody’s gonna put their foot on the gas 

[00:24:39] Brian Searl: Before we pivot to glamping, McKay, since you’re involved on both the long-term and short-term side and over there in, in Western United States where there’s more drive time between places, right?

What are you, what is your sense of all this? And then just for, for briefly before you go into that, tell us a little bit about what you, what you do at Dwell briefly. 

[00:24:56] McKay Quinn: Yeah. Happy to. Um, so we, we do, we, we started so, I mean, it’s part of our background and we, we started it at the peak of this, right? 2022, 2023 was things were great, right?

Look- looked great to be an RV park investor. And, uh, um, you know, we were part of that, look lured into this, this asset class, if you will. But, um, we set out to build these campgrounds thinking originally that they were going to be transient and either, either destination, you know, next to a national park, or overnighters, weekend stays, kinda along major freeway corridors or highway connecting corridors.

So we’ve quickly learned, you know, in the last couple of years that, um, you know, most of our revenue, 85% of our revenue is actually attributed to long-term stays. Um, and so we’ve leaned into that because that’s where the market’s at. In the locations, it’s very location specific, but in the locations that we originally set out to build.

And so we’ve been blessed to be able to be nimble and a- adapt to that and change our marketing, and that’s something that is a, you know, beautiful thing with RV parks is they are flexible usually if your zoning allows to have longer term stays. And we’re, we’re now building a business completely on the thesis of the fact that the doll- the US consumer’s dollar is going less and less far.

Every, every day when the gas gas price goes up at the pump, you’re, you, you know, inflation is real, and people are feeling it in the fact that they’re not, you know, they’re not going as far from home. They’re not, uh, taking as many trips in their RV. And so we’ve just leaned in 100% to say, “All right. W- we’re gonna view this more as a housing…

This is more of an affordable housing solution than it is a, as a destination or a, a hospitality, um, asset.” For, for the assets that make sense, you have to have demand drivers in terms of employment, um, and you also have to make sure that the affordability, you know, the alternatives to living in an RV are not less affordable than your, your site rent.

So there are some metrics to keep your eye on, but that’s, that’s what we’ve leaned into and what we’re really, you know, building our, our business on in any new acquisitions that we do. 

[00:27:21] Brian Searl: Is there a sense, McKay, that you feel like, and, and to anyone else who wants to take this question after McKay too, who wants to weigh in on it, but is there a sense that there might be a, a cap on the number of people who are willing to stay long-term, who either can buy an RV or want to get into this type of lifestyle, or have we not come anywhere close to that yet?

[00:27:39] McKay Quinn: It’s a great, great question. Um, it’s very hard to measure as well. Um, but what we… The way we see it is that- Um, i- if you’re providing affordable housing at the kinda entry level and inflation continues to go on the up and up, there’s going to be more and more people pushed into the category of needing the most affordable housing that there is.

And so I believe that that is a growing segment, um, as long as we have these geopolitical, uh, constraints and we have in, uh, a high inflationary environment. So, uh, not exactly answering your question ’cause I, I don’t know exactly how to measure, but I do think that, that, that consumer is growing, whether it’s by choice or by necessity.

We’re also seeing a lot of people, uh, fixed income retirees that are saying, “Hey, maybe what I’ll do is I will downsize into full-time RV living. I’ll sell my assets, my house, my shop, my two acres of land up north, and I will go into a year-round RV situation,” whether that’s year-round in a market that is a good climate for year-round living, or they could still be splitting time, but they’re not going back home.

They’re just going to an RV park in their hometown rather than going to their house. And so they’re selling those assets to be able to, you know, maintain the lifestyle that they want. 

[00:29:11] Brian Searl: So, so you don’t think this is more by choice? You think it’s more they’re kind of backed into a corner and need to do this, or?

Obviously macro and micro is different, right? But mac- on a macro level. 

[00:29:24] McKay Quinn: Yeah, I, I think you have both. I think you have both, for sure. Um, but it’s probably more out of necessity right now because of the inflation. 

[00:29:32] Rafael Correa: Yeah. And, and housing availability. I mean, that’s another-

[00:29:35] Scott Bahr: Correct. Absolutely …

[00:29:35] Rafael Correa: major constraint is that, you know, I mean, there, there’s legislation they’re trying to pass in Maryland right now to kind of at the state level to basically force all the counties to accept this concept of an accessory dwelling unit, right? So that they can create more housing rapidly. 

[00:29:50] Scott Bahr: Yeah. 

[00:29:50] Rafael Correa: Uh, and I think there’s a lot of that legislation happening all over the country. Um, and so that, that’s a response to a housing shortage that’s real in a lot of places. 

[00:30:00] McKay Quinn: That’s right. 

[00:30:00] Phil Ingrassia: I think another thing that’s going on too, and Texas is certainly, uh, in the headlines right now with what one of my members calls, um, extended stay- Mm uh, type. They’re, they’re not gonna be there permanently, but they’re, they’re campgrounds that are going up around data centers or Amazon warehouses where, uh, you know, the, the, the housing situation is not n- uh, adequate to address the temporary workers or permanent workers that may be coming in. So, you know, I, I, I hear from my members in Texas about this phenomena and, uh, it’s, it’s really starting to make some national headlines about what is the exact answer to this because it creates a lot of different situations within the locality, especially if there are children involved and school impacts and things like that.

So, you know, I think it’s something that, um, is interesting for the industry to kind of try to balance, okay, here’s the, here’s the issues that are coming up. How are our products, how do they fit into that? 

[00:31:21] Brian Searl: Yeah, because there’s not really a, there’s not really a standard stock answer now, right? Like, if you’re a campground that already exists and you’re near a data center, great.

You’ve got a lot of extra business temporarily, right? Right. But if you’re not a campground and you’re looking to build one, you’re not gonna build one for a temporary solution that could take six to eight months for them to build and then everybody’s gone. There’s gotta be another reason for you to build there, right?

There’s almost no model in the middle. 

[00:31:45] Rafael Correa: Yeah. It’s, it’s, that’s a care- that’s a precarious situation to potentially put yourself in, uh, around those things. And so that’s all well and good when the government’s gonna pay for it and you’re getting your ROI in the four or five years that you’re gonna have this, you know.

There, and there’s companies that specialize in building those, you know, for lack of a better term, man camps, uh, that are that temporary housing solutions. Um, I think the other thing to consider, and there’s a couple things you said there, Phil, that I think kinda really rang true for me, is that, uh, and it, it makes me think about another thing that I think about, which is this kind of boom of institutional capital that has come into the space.

You know, how many RV resorts have been built? Are we somewhat hitting this kind of like, did the supply outpace the demand, right? Um, and, and, and in certain places I think that’s a real, a real consideration. And I think the other thing that’s happening, and I think all of these things are true at some level and converging, is that, um- Only the strong survive and our consumer is evolving very quickly, right?

In how they search for campgrounds, what they expect from a campground, what they expect as far as amenities and, and accommodations, what they expect from a service level. Um, you know, we’re now in the area of un- uh, in the era of unreasonable hospitality, right? And this thing of like where hospitality can be something more elevated, can be something better, and it’s in the little things.

And so it’s challenging, I think, everybody in the industry, whether you’re an institutional owner, whether you’re a, um, a, a owner/operator, you know, of a family legacy campground, is that you gotta be reinvesting in your asset, you gotta be reinvesting in, you know, your marketing and how you sell, and you gotta be paying attention to your, to your demand drivers.

Uh, McKay, to your point earlier, I mean, that’s, that’s so huge to understand why do people come see me versus anywhere else they can choose to go? And, and if you’re not constantly focused on those differentiators and drawing new people to those differentiators, it’s gonna get harder and harder, right? Um, and so this is where it’s kind of the necessity is the mother of invention and there’s a lot of necessity out there for us these days.

[00:33:45] Brian Searl: Well, and I think that’s a good pivot to, to Derry probably- Mm … and different, different experiences. Uh, Derry, briefly introduce yourself and, and what you’ve got going on, ’cause I, I follow you on LinkedIn and I’ve seen you’ve been on the show- Yeah … before. I think it’s been a couple years. You’ve done a lot of great things in the industry over there.

So briefly tell the audience who you are and what you do. 

[00:34:02] Derry Green: Yeah. So I started The Secret Garden Glamping, um, in COVID. Pre-COVID, I used to have a transport business shipping stuff to Europe and we, in that first lockdown, I lost my business and got stuck at home with the kids. We had a camping trip in the garden, um, it was great, just us.

And in that first lockdown I built, I ended up building a pod in our back garden for me and the kids. It went viral online. Um, I decided to list it on Airbnb, and within two days it was fully booked for two years in advance. And then since then we’ve gone on, we’ve now got 27 units across five different locations.

We usually book around 18 to 24 months in advance. We’ve had 100% occupancy for six years, and our whole focus is on changing the glamping market and what it is that people are looking for. And it’s funny, ’cause I have absolutely zero to do with the RV market, but I’ve been sat here making little notes as I’ve been going along, and a lot of it rings true to what happened in the UK and to, to where we’re at now.

And it is slightly different, but it’s still the s- the, from what I understand, ’cause my brother actually lived in Mississippi, is very similar to what the UK did quite a while back. And I think from the sounds of it, it’s coming down the line for you guys. So with the US, actually just on fuel prices, we haven’t had fuel prices as low as you guys since 1999, even though you’re at the highest it’s ever been over there.

We haven’t had it for 26 years that low. Um, but we, in the UK, we had a huge caravan market, so s- I, I guess a similar relation to your RV market. Obviously ours are a lot smaller, but static caravans specifically, um, which was a huge market in the ’20s, ’30s, ’40s, and then all the way up to the ’70s and ’80s. Um, and that market has absolutely changed over the past 20 years, but significantly since kind of pre-COVID, which is where that was the leisure, hospitality accommodation, that’s where you went on your holidays, you went to different holiday parks, we call them, uh, which are basically RV parks.

Um, and that’s where you had multi-generational families, all sorts of people visiting those. Now what’s happened significantly with them is they, their whole market has changed to the long-term renter. So in the UK we have laws, you, you … It’s weird, you ha- you can live in it for, I think it’s 340 days a year, so they basically have to move out for sort of two weeks and then come back again.

But those holiday parks have really struggled over the past 10 to 15 years as the glamping sector and, uh, short-term rental accommodation has kind of come online. So since the event of, of- sites like Airbnb, there’s been a huge shift in what people not only are traveling for, so the reasons around the traveling.

Um, we’re finding a lot of people are doing multiple shorter trips, occasional based, so anniversary, birthdays, weddings, those sorts of things, um, as opposed to the longer holiday trips. Because we have the same in the UK with, you know, the way the market’s out at the minute, everything that’s going on in and around with the US and all those sorts of things.

So what we’re finding here is that people are maybe canceling booking their specific summer holiday, Easter holiday, whatever it might be, and opting for the shorter, um, kind of occasional trips where they are going for a specific occasion, and then they are selecting, you know, um, either glamping or again, luxury accommodation.

And that’s what seems to have changed. And I think, again, my understanding from an, an RV point of view, ’cause I’ve got, again, friends in the US, it seems to be a bit of a… If you wanna go away for the weekend, okay, uh, it… I was talking to a friend of mine and he put it this way. If he wants to go away for a weekend in his RV with his family, it takes him three or four hours to pack everything up on a Friday.

He’s gotta drive to the campground. By the time he gets there, it’s nighttime. Okay, so first day is Saturday morning. Where with something like a short-term rental accommodation or a glamping site that’s an hour or two from your home, you can finish work on a, on Friday at 5:00 PM and you can be sat in a hot tub for 7:00 PM on a Friday evening ’cause you’re just getting in the car with a, with a travel bag and off you go.

Um, so these kind of multiple trips from an RV point of view seem to be crossing over into the glamping and, um, short-term rental sector. 

[00:38:32] Brian Searl: Which is what, Scott, would you agree that like we’re kind of seeing that, but just in the, the younger generation so far? 

[00:38:39] Scott Bahr: Absolutely. And, and it’s, it’s one of the reasons for a lot of the, the lack of avidity and attrition that we, we see in that segment too, um, that the…

And there are multiple factors that contribute to this, and, and Phil can probably attest to it as well, that it, that convenience factor is, um, is big. But typically, RVing appeals to people for different reasons than, than that. You know, there’s a, there’s a, there are other factors that people will opt for RVing because they know, they typically know that going in.

What we lack a lot of, especially, um, within the younger generations, is the, um, knowledge, the knowledge base and experience to, uh, operate an RV and how to, um, you know, how to drive it, how to park it, just the, the, the base knowledge. And, and I actually have data that can show that very clearly, um, that, how, how big of a factor that is.

But yeah, we absolutely, um, lose, um, from RVing, the, the idea that you can just fill up a bag with clothes and end up someplace like, like you said, Darian, a couple hours you’re there soaking in the hot tub. You know? Yeah. There’s some appeal to that, um, as well. Um- Well, it’s crazy … here in the US it’s a little slightly different just because, you know, people t- you know, a lot of times want to multiple stops, multiple destinations, kind of that, the idea that you’re self-contained is that appeal.

But that, kinda that overnighter that we used to get a lot of, we lose those to the short-term rental, uh, whether it’s glamping or others. 

[00:40:19] Rafael Correa: Yeah, from pure convenience. 

[00:40:21] Scott Bahr: Yep. 

[00:40:21] Derry Green: Yeah. It’s funny, you said just then, and I wrote it down here about five minutes ago, I wrote down generational differences. What happened in the UK and, and as you’ve just kinda reiterated then, the UK market or the UK caravan/RV type market, uh, was mainly made up of sales.

So that was people buying a static caravan at a site where they’d go and visit it three, four, five, six times a year. Mm-hmm. So again, a similar sorta model. Now, that group of people who were buying them, which were usually, typically people between the age of sort of 35 to 55-ish, that age group has, you know, obviously got older and they still have that stock, but what we’re finding in the UK is, I think as Phil was saying earlier on, new stock coming to market, the, the, the uptake on sales on that has dipped off a cliff in the UK over the past 10 years.

Because people of my generation, so where my dad would’ve had a static caravan or RV, as I’ve come up, I wouldn’t have that. So my generation and then the generations below are not filling those gaps like the, like the previous kind of 50, 60 years. And I put it here, the generational differences is, and, and I think that shift in the UK started about, about- 20 years ago, um, but only really came to fruition in the past sort of 10 years, and really importantly, in the past five years, where I would not go and buy a static caravan or RV.

I would rather do multiple holidays to wherever I wanna go, and that might be locally, it might be nationally, it might be internationally. Um, and I think that’s really gonna start to hit over the next probably five to 10 years in the US, where like you’ve said, somebody who’s 18 to 20 now probably won’t have been driving their RV with their dad for the past five or six years or know what to do with it.

I think we have a, a similar situation from the UK here as well 

[00:42:18] Brian Searl: Miguel, what does that look like in Mexico? I, I don’t think you have really had a developed RV market in Mexico, have you? 

[00:42:26] Miguel Huerta: No, I, because insurance, it’s an issue here in Mexico for RVs. So, uh, the RV market is pretty non-existent in Mexico. But if I may add what you…

Uh, I mean, I think that we’re pretty much aligned even though that we’re in different markets, um, both on the product and, and, and the country. Um, here in Mexico, um, t- tourism got hit very hard by the World Cup. Um, so for example, glamping, it had a decrease of 22%, uh, on, uh… That, that was only in July, uh, in June, sorry.

Hotels had a decrease of, uh, on demand by 30%. Um, with h- with the hotels, uh, a decrease of 31%. And at the beginning I started to see, like based on the glamping, uh, product, which is where I, um, I have more data, and then I realized that i- in Mexico what happened i- is that consumption bas- basically went downhill.

All the major retailers in Mexico, uh, show negative numbers. Um, th- these retailers that are, that are listed in the Mexican Stock Exchange, except by one which is, uh, uh, called OXXO, which is like the Mexican 7-Eleven. Because people, they will go to, to this convenience store, buy beer, watch the, the World Cup, and, and party on the streets.

Now, um, what I see from, uh, the comments from everybody is that we are in tough times, and I think that, uh, it’s, um, very responsible to say that, uh, out loud because if we sugarcoat the state of the industry, um, a lot of our listeners and viewers, um, right now I’m pretty sure that they are in need of a helping hand.

So, um, what I think, or at least what, what we’re, uh, focusing right now, uh, in the Mexican Glamping Association and in my company is number one, we’re paying very close attention to all the expenses. Sadly, we have not been able to hire as much people as we want because at the end, um, we don’t have the money for it and we need to, to, to survive.

Um, and the second one, it’s, uh, demand creation. Because if we think that, uh, that, that, that we’re gonna make it through because of organic demand, sadly, that’s not the case. And I think that that’s important for a lot of people, that they need to go back to basics and even challenge their perceptions on what used to work back in the day.

Uh, it, it was funny because on my way here, um, I was listening to a podcast with the guy that runs the Savannah Bananas, y- you know, like, this colorful and cheerful baseball team. And I think that, uh, the industry, it’s on the verge of having people like that reinventing products, reinventing, um, the demand for their location.

Otherwise, it, it will be very hard. And sure, um, I, I’ve been reading and listening to a lot of information saying that right now you have to prime, uh, your ADR and what’s not. But I think that right now you need to take a very close look on your expenses and maybe say, “You know what? Maybe we, we need to decrease our rates.”

I, I don’t like that word because, uh, I mean, it’s very easy to decrease the rates, but very hard to increase them. So be very careful on, on, on that. Um, but demand creation, it’s extremely important. Like, these detox, um, uh, trips that people are going, you know, uh, where they don’t wanna be attached to their phones, uh, or they don’t want their kids to, to, to, to be all the time watching Netflix and, and being on TikTok.

So I mean, that’s my advice. I don’t know what you think about that, guys. 

[00:46:53] Brian Searl: Well, I think that’s what, and I’m not put words in your mouth, Derry, but I think that’s what you did, right? Is you created demand with your product. You could have just said like, I had a great experience with my daughter in the backyard and now I want to do glamping like everybody else.

But you did something different. You created demand and it’s shown in your bookings, right? 

[00:47:10] Derry Green: Yeah, exactly. So when I talk about this business, there’s two things I always say about. One is we are not an accommodation provider. That’s not our job. Our job isn’t to provide a hotel room. I’m not the Hilton. What we do is provide experiences.

So why is somebody coming? As I said earlier on, the occasion type stays when they’re coming for an anniversary, a wedding, a birthday. Those are special things and they want memories from that. And how do they create memories? So that’s our whole focus has always been on everything else except for the unit.

With glamping, again, I remember going camping as a kid with my parents. And I distinctly remember we spent maybe an hour pitching the tent and getting it all set up. And then we walked away. And for two days, we’d swim in a river or climb a tree or whatever it was. What we didn’t do was sit in a tent for two days.

So when it comes to glamping or any other accommodation, why would accommodation providers think you’re just sitting in a really fancy tent or a really fancy lodge or whatever for two days? That’s not what you’re there for. You’re there to experience things. So that’s number one. And then the second thing is, again, I’ve talked about it a lot.

We are in theory a social media organization that owns a glamping site. So everything we do is based on how do we get over to our audience what they’re going to experience there. Because attention spans are so minute now and people, a lot of people need things spelling out. So rather than trying to focus on existing clients and customers, which we do.

You know, we, we, we, in the UK we take a lot from the hotel chains and that sort of stuff. But what we’re ultimately trying to do, uh, to make a sustainable market, is create a new customer base, and that’s what we do. In the UK, um, the … For example, the black and ethnic minority communities in the UK are not traditional campers.

It’s, it, it just isn’t. Um, so focusing on those markets and focusing on reasons why they would wanna come away and what we can offer those, uh, specific groups has really boosted our occupancy levels ultimately. You know, we’re seeing year on year increase, not only on occupancy because we, y- we are fully booked, it is what it is, but on inquiries.

And on, on year on year it is, it’s just constantly going up, and that’s because we’re not focusing on the accommodation side. I think it was, um, Rafael was saying earlier about the reinvesting in the parks, in the locations. What is it they’re gonna do when they’re there? If they’re spending a longer amount of time there, it can’t be just a, a hookup.

It needs to be, what else is there to do? What are you, uh, inevitably going there for? Um, and that is usually, or hopefully, to spend time with family, friends, reconnect, celebrate, these sorts of things, and you need to have the ability to be able to do that. Um, and that’s where short term accommodation works really, really well for those things.

And then longer term accommodation needs to kind of catch up with those, those sorts of facilities.

[00:50:08] Brian Searl: Any thoughts on that? 

[00:50:10] Michael Moore: I, I was just gonna add, I mean, it’s similar to what, um, I was reading about hotels where, you know, besides the reasons we talked about here about, hey, they want, you know, consumer wants something more affordable, expenses going up, they want the kind of goodies and perks, uh, with their stay.

They want some added value to it, or at least they wanna feel like they’re getting added value to it. And so that’s why, again, we’ve all touched on it with, with campgrounds especially, is doing everything they can to show them an experience, you know, and, and make sure they d- they understand, you know, like Derry said, it’s not just a hookup and, like, see you later.

Like, they wanna feel good. They want to feel like they’re special, quite honestly. Yeah. And just another, uh, uh, kind of related note, but in our work with, uh, TACO, with the association, I can tell you, I’ve been here 20 years, and we’re still sort of, uh, fighting cities and counties to distinguish between RV park and mobile home park, because they still don’t understand it, and they still lump us all together.

And so we, it’s a constant sort of, uh, uh, education for both, you know, the municipalities and the consumer too, to kind of make sure they understand the difference between what we are and what, what a mobile home park is, or long-term park is, or what have you. 

[00:51:26] Brian Searl: Are we going to do two separate sides of the consumer?

And again, just intentionally lumping people into two groups. There’s many more, right? But the people who might be pulled down to the affordability, like you just mentioned, Mike, or yeah, Michael. Can I call you Mike? I don’t know if you like that or not. 

[00:51:41] Michael Moore: My dad’s Mike, but he’s not here, so go ahead. 

[00:51:43] Brian Searl: Michael, that’s, we’re talking to Michael then.

Uh, but pulled down into that, or the people who are either wanting to be pulled up or willing to be pulled up by the creation of such an experience like Derry built. 

[00:51:56] Michael Moore: Uh, I was gonna say that, that’s, 

[00:51:58] Brian Searl: um- And spend the money, would give me a reason to spend the money 

[00:52:00] Michael Moore: Well, I was gonna say, that’s kinda where my head was going, was I think you have both tracks going where, again, it’s the affordable sorta option for a lot of folks, and they kinda want the bare bones, “Hey, I just need a place to stay,” that kinda deal.

But then literally the polar opposite is those folks that have the money and have, uh, uh, the time to spend at those sort of what I’ll call elevated experiences. I, I guess for lack of a better term, it’s kind of those middle class parks, uh, that are gonna see, I think, the biggest impact on, because it’s no longer, hey, they’re not good enough for a lot of people as far as the experience, but it’s also too much or too expensive for the people that are looking for the accommodation side.

[00:52:42] Brian Searl: Yeah. It’s the K-shaped economy that we’re going into that’s impacting the middle class RV parks, just like it’s impacting the middle class people. 

[00:52:48] Derry Green: I, I absolutely agree. I think there’s a, a- again, fundamentally in the UK, there’s a place for your back to basics camping, glamping type scenarios and the, the kind of elevated side, and that middle bit is a really sticky bit to sit in.

Um, but equally what we’re finding from an experience point of view, people are willing to pay for it and people are willing- willing to save for it. So I can walk out onto our car park this evening, and I guarantee there will be a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or something of that class on that car park, and I equally guarantee there will be a banger that’s rusty and falling to bits.

And equally, one person could afford it to stay here every single day of their life, and the other people can only afford to come maybe once in a couple of years for a special occasion. And we do have that variety from, from every class of society that come here. And just on the experience bit, one that if, we’re, funnily enough, ’cause we’re doubling down on it now, it’s little things.

Because it’s not, it’s the perceived value, which is what Michael said. It’s not physical value, so we’re not saying you need, you know, everybody needs to have, you know, gold bedding and, and champagne on tap and things like that. But it’s that perceived value when customers arrive, and it’s, it’s the experience from when people ultimately find you, whether that be on social media or any other form of marketing, all the way through to when they arrive.

It’s that customer journey starts at that acquisition point, and it, it almost finishes once they arrive. Now, most people start the customer journey when they arrive, and you’re already kind of too late then. So we had, last year we in, um- put in a guest services building at each of the locations. Little kind of small office where guests come and have a meeting point, and when they arrive we give them a glass of prosecco.

It, the bottle costs us, like, $4 and we get maybe 10 glasses out of each. It’s costing nothing. So when they arrive, they get a glass of prosecco and we check them in, and al- instantly they feel like this is the best place in the world. That little touch has made … Our, our repeat bookings are up 72% on last year because of that one little detail.

So we’re doubling down on it now, and we’ve cleared about a quarter of an acre to make a whole new guest services, reception, concierge type scenario. Because, as we all know, first impressions count. That’s what’s important to people. And if you’re there for, you know, we can focus on the units and we can focus on the infrastructure.

Um, but once you’re at a certain level, there’s not a lot more you can do with it, you know, unless we go to adding things like swimming pools, tennis courts, those sorts of facilities which is your larger infrastructure. On the smaller sites or the smaller side, it’s these, these little touches that make a huge difference and it’s

Like I say, when you go on holiday, you will never tell me what color the curtains were or what the carpet was like, but you will tell me about the person on reception who really helped or the person who served you, you the drinks and they remembered your name. Those sorts of things are what are important in this market, rather than the big statement pieces.

[00:55:56] Rafael Correa: Derry is, uh-

[00:55:57] Scott Bahr: That’s a perfect-

[00:55:57] Rafael Correa: Sorry, go ahead, Scott, please. 

[00:55:59] Scott Bahr: I, I was gonna say, no, that’s perfect. That’s a perfect sum- summation of hospitality, is something that- Yeah … we talk about a lot, you know, that your goal is to have them talking about those things. Yeah. All those things that you just mentioned, and never mention, you know, kind of the, the, the other stuff, including the price.

Yeah. So that’s all I wanted to say. But yeah. Go ahead, bro. Sorry. 

[00:56:21] Rafael Correa: I just wanted to know if pickleball is big in England, that’s all. 

[00:56:25] Derry Green: Yeah. They, they are popping up everywhere. Yeah. It’s, uh, it is, it’s funny enough, there’s one locally. That’s, I say one locally. I think there’s about 10 in planning at the moment.

Uh, but yeah, it’s becoming a huge- 

[00:56:36] Rafael Correa: The wave is there too, yeah … 

[00:56:38] Derry Green: yeah, huge wave across the UK.

[00:56:40] Rafael Correa: I was gonna say, don’t build a tennis court. Build pickleball courts. That’s all. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve built, I’ve built dozens of them in the past few years. 

[00:56:48] Derry Green: Oh, the must. 

[00:56:48] Brian Searl: Sometimes Derry doesn’t need to build anything. He’s 100% occupied for a few years.

He’s good. He just needed the prosecco. 

[00:56:55] Derry Green: Yeah. So we’re, we’re currently fully booked for summer 2027 now. 

[00:56:59] Rafael Correa: That’s awesome. 

[00:57:01] Miguel Huerta: But I think that Derry is, uh, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Derry is packed because he, he does an amazing job by promoting, uh, his prop- uh, his property. And I think, and I…

It, it was very interesting and enlightening, uh, the insight that Scott provided were like the… I mean, the, the young generation didn’t know how to fix a toilet. They didn’t know how to drive a, a, a RV. Um, for example, in our case, we hired a, a, a person who’s in charge of doing social media content, and that it’s doing like this, um, ex- uh, ex- uh, th- this FAQ type of videos, you know, where, okay, how do I arrive there?

How do I arrive there, uh, by public transportation? Um, I know those things that might be overlooked when you are taking a look on a P&L, you know? Uh, so it, it, it, it… I think that this unreasonable hospitality at the end, uh, sure, it focuses a lot on the product, but this is marketing, uh, 101, where there’s five piece pricing, uh, promotion, the, um, the product, the, the, the location and, and the people, um, that you need to focus on.

So let’s go back to, to basics, I guess. 

[00:58:28] Rafael Correa: I, I… One thing I would just… I know we’re kind of running out of time, but, uh, I think there is one, in my opinion, this is just maybe my personal experience, but I believe it’s gonna be prevalent in a lot of young people, but- Uh, you mentioned something about people don’t feel comfortable fixing it, and RVs are intimidating, right?

There’s so many buttons and switches and this, that, and the other. And so one of the things that has changed for me with AI, you know, Google Gemini is, like, on speed dial on my phone, and I have f- never felt more empowered to take on, like, maintenance and home improvement projects as I am today, because I can literally, like, take a picture and send it to Gemini and be like, “What is this?

What button do I push?” You know? What… And so, like, I, I… That, that, that not knowing factor feels that less distant for me than it ever has, and I feel like that this next generation, it’s gonna be, you know, an answer is a, a picture and a phone connection away. And, and I, and I hope that’s good for the RV industry, is what I’m saying at the end of the day, because it’ll take some of that mystique and fear out of it.

Other than parking it, ’cause that’s, that, that’s always gonna suck. It would be so fun. I, 

[00:59:38] Brian Searl: I don’t think you’re wrong. 

[00:59:39] Rafael Correa: But it’s also part of the experience, so you know. 

[00:59:42] Brian Searl: I don’t think you’re wrong, but I think that that also requires a certain type of person with curiosity, and, and I know we’re gonna run maybe a couple 

[00:59:47] Rafael Correa: But I, I’m coming from the perspective of somebody who would, like, never dare to fix anything.

Like, I am the most non-handy person. I don’t know if you can tell by looking at me. I’m sure you can. 

[00:59:55] Brian Searl: But you’re obsessed with Claude, so there’s that flip where you’re just like, “I wanna know what AI can do for me,” right? You’re curious about it. 

[01:00:01] Rafael Correa: Yeah, and that’s what I’ve been sh- I’ve been blown away of how it can, like, step-by-step me through something.

And, and, and the reason I just bring this up is ’cause what Miguel said and, and because of the, the, the RV and the maintenance and the intimidation factor. So, like, anyway, neither here nor there. I know we’re kinda running out of time, and I got, I got another thing to go to. But it’s, uh … The world is shifting.

That is the, that is an absolute fact, and, and we have to be cognizant and aware of it, and I … That’s why I appreciate this opportunity to connect with these great minds and great people to hear different perspectives, because that’s where, that’s the … This is all the context that I’m putting in my own little, you know, old school AI up here. Uh, 

[01:00:39] Brian Searl: Yeah, if you need to, if anybody needs to jump off, please go ahead and jump off. Just say bye and, and we’ll see you later. I’m gonna just take-

[01:00:44] Scott Bahr: Bye everyone …

[01:00:45] Brian Searl: one more question for you, uh, if you don’t mind, if you have a second. Um, just p- piggybacking off, off of what Miguel said, like I think I know how good you are at various social media.

We’ve talked about that on a previous show here. Uh, you have the chops to do all that stuff and put together a great, you know, bar none probably, uh, that I’ve seen. And so Miguel is right, the basics of social media need to be there, but also you have to have something to promote too. You can’t just be going on social media and promoting the same thing as everybody else, can you?

You have, it has to be both things, not just one, right? 

[01:01:19] Derry Green: Yeah, exactly. So I, I learned very, very early on that marketing was the most import- most important part of the business by far. Because you can have… You know, I know of some absolutely amazing locations in the UK and in the US, you know, the most phenomenal units, the, the, the best views.

And I can book every one of them today because they are Absolutely useless at marketing what they do. They might be great designers, great builders, but marketing fundamentally is what is at the heart of every business. And you’re exactly right. What’s happened in the UK, funnily enough, and I see it in the US a lot as well, people focused around the accommodation, the units, the facilities.

So from sort of 2020 to about 2023, um, those three years, that’s what people wanted to see. The- ’cause there was big differences. One person would have whatever, a pop-up tent, and another one would have a tree house with a hot tub and a sauna. So there was big differences in the market. Now, where we’re at in 2026, those differences aren’t as big, um, and with things like AI and Photoshop and lots of other things, I can make anything look like anything now.

So those days of just kind of promoting a product as such are kind of gone. Um, and you see that with huge brands and small brands. What is resonating with people ultimately is your story. Now, I… You could take 10 glamping sites, and we could all have the same physical product, but we’ve got 10 different stories, I guarantee you.

And that’s what’s, you know, what, what, what really kind of captivated people with, with us wasn’t… It, it was the units to some extent, although we weren’t the best units. I still don’t build the best units in the market. I know of way better sites than mine. Um, but the story’s captivating. The reason I do it is captivating.

What I do on a daily basis is interesting, and getting people to buy into you as a brand is really, really important. And again, uh, in the UK, everybody’s individual owner operators, very small niche businesses, so it’s very easy to do. It’s very difficult for Mr. Hilton to speak to his guests every day, to be on reception, to do those sorts of things.

It’s just not gonna happen. But me, as a founder, I can still go onto our social media platforms and talk with our audience. I can speak to our guests. I can go out to reception. I can answer the phone. I can do all these things even though we are the largest in the UK. I can still do all this because automation, Claude, ChatGPT can take away the bulk work, which you don’t need to focus on.

And ultimately, we’re all trying to market ourselves as opposed to the business now. That’s what is really, really important. I did, uh, Dragon’s Den, which is Shark Tank in the US, and the whole point of me doing that wasn’t for me to get bookings and sell my glamping units. The point of me doing that was just a marketing exercise.

It was giving me an opportunity to speak to an audience about what I believe in, what is important to me. And when we look at market, at, at, at booking trends and spending trends, people are way more, um, prolific in spending money on things that either resonant, resonate with their core values, so what they believe in, what they think, those sorts of things, or ultimately that their, the money that they’re spending is going to a good use.

You know, we, we never feel good about staying at a Hilton and giving Mr. Hilton another couple of hundred dollars to add to his 200 billion, or whatever he’s got. But if you go to a, you know, a local bakery, and there’s a little lady there who’s making cakes or bread or whatever, you feel good about spending that $10 with that firm.

So that’s, again, those things are really important now. There was a, a huge push from a sustainability point of view, so a su- you know, a kind of green credentials and your people being, um, really conscious about the environment. But that also flows over to not only what you’re spending the money on, but who you’re spending it with.

So like I say, the, everybody’s got their own story. There is… And I certainly wouldn’t be… If I started today, I wouldn’t be marketing glamping units. I’d be marketing why you should come with me on my glamping journey, on my glamping experience, on my glamping adventure. 

[01:05:42] Brian Searl: Well said. 

[01:05:44] Rafael Correa: Well said. 

[01:05:45] Brian Searl: I don’t know if I copied Raf or Raf copied me there, but, uh, okay.

So let’s, let’s wrap this up. We’re a couple minutes over. Um, Michael, final thoughts and any, and where can they find out more about just, if you wanna promote the TACO Association, if you wanna promote AGS, whatever you’d like to promote. 

[01:05:59] Michael Moore: Yeah, no, I, I, the final thought I think would be for RV parks, you know, a lot of the stuff Derry was saying for the glamping units, RV parks can do a lot of things, too- Yeah

that don’t cost anything, you know? I mean, I remember the first sort of example I heard of that was, again, 20 years ago when I started, and it was something as simple as just, you know, a, a staff or the front office person guiding the person in the rig to their site, brushing off the pedestal, and like that’s it, you know, brushing off the picnic table, whatever.

And again, it’s not a big thing, but it’s those small things that kind of, uh, can, can sort of avoid bigger things I’d say down the road. So anyway, no, th- I, I think everything that’s been said here has been great. Um, for the, uh, Texas campground owners, uh, our membership site is tacomembers.com if you’re a campground and would like to join.

Our consumer site is texascampgrounds.com, and then we have a consumer glamping site, uh, texasglampingresorts.com. And then, yeah, on the, on the AGS side, again, we do, uh, marketing material and, and promotional material for campgrounds all over the country, every kind of brand, uh, and you can find us there at agspub.com.

[01:07:06] Brian Searl: All right, that was your only chance to promote yourself. You have way too much- 

[01:07:08] Michael Moore: I know, I know. 

[01:07:10] Brian Searl: Raf, final thoughts, and where can they learn more about Blue Water? 

[01:07:13] Rafael Correa: Uh, website’s www.bwdc, that’s bravo whiskey delta charlie.com. And, um, final thought is a quote I heard from Ken Griffin, uh, which is, “Good things come to those who wait, but only the things that were left behind by the people who hustle.”

[01:07:36] Brian Searl: I don’t know if that was Ken who originally said that, but we’ll give him credit for it just for the sake of the podcast. The Citadel guy, is who you’re talking about? 

[01:07:43] Rafael Correa: Yeah. 

[01:07:44] Brian Searl: I don’t know. I’ve heard that for, like, 15 years from different people who have claimed credit for it. But Ken’s a smart guy. He could’ve come up with that, for sure.

McKay, final thoughts and where can we learn more about, uh, Dwell Hospitality? 

[01:07:55] McKay Quinn: Yeah. I’m gra- grateful for the invite to be here today and to, to share, uh, insights with, with everybody and learn from those that are, that are here. I, you know, to piggyback on Raf, I think, um, you know, the, you, you’ll be rewarded if you can be nimble and adjust to where this is going.

Um, there’s, there’s a lot of changes happening fast and this is an industry that hasn’t really changed fast historically. It’s slow to move but there’s been a lot of changes and there, there continue to be and so those that can adapt I think will be rewarded for that. So those are my final thoughts and, um, you can find us at dwelloutdoorhospitality.com or, uh, on, on LinkedIn, McKay Quinn.

So happy to be here, thanks. 

[01:08:39] Brian Searl: Thanks, McKay. Appreciate it. Miguel, final thoughts? 

[01:08:45] Miguel Huerta: No, it’s, it’s always a pleasure to, to spend some time with you guys, to pick up your brains. Um, I’m a huge fan of the leaders in the industry. Um, I think that I will love to have new leaders, and I think that this, uh, shake in, in the industry will create new leaders.

So I’m looking forward to learn from them. May- maybe we’re gonna see some Z ge- Z generation, um, type of leaders, you know, the TikTokers that, that they know how to do business with TikTok, and we, and we don’t. Uh, but yeah, um, in, in our case, um, I’m part of the Mexican Glamping Association. You can look for us a- at, it’s in Spanish, so it’s asociacionmexicanadeglamping, eh, .com.

Uh, but yeah, I mean, the Spanish-speaking, uh, population, I think that it’s critical for the, for this industry as well. 

[01:09:43] Brian Searl: And if you’re in America and need to find it and can’t remember the spelling for what Miguel just said, I still have that domain I need to give you, Miguel. I still own it. I’ll just give it to you.

So you can email me. Uh-

[01:09:55] Miguel Huerta: Sounds great …

[01:09:56] Brian Searl: but, like, just in case anybody in America doesn’t spell Spanish correctly like me. Uh, Phil, final thoughts? 

[01:10:05] Phil Ingrassia: No, great to talk to everybody. I always like listening to the campground perspectives ’cause you guys are right on the ground and, um, you know, appreciate all you do for the RV customers who are the end users.

And, uh, we are getting ready for our convention. We do professional development, and one of the things we’re gonna be talking quite a bit about is, um, uh, at our convention coming up in November in Las Vegas is, uh, you know, AI capabilities to help make a more seamless experience through the buying and service process.

So, uh, if people are interested in that, they can go to rvdaexpo.org. 

[01:10:45] Brian Searl: You have a speaker for that, Phil? You gonna let me come down and talk if I come to your conference? 

[01:10:49] Phil Ingrassia: Sure. Come on down. 

[01:10:51] Brian Searl: All right. Derry, last but not least, sir. 

[01:10:54] Derry Green: Um, do you know what? It’s, it… I love doing this, um, and I go away excited about everything.

And I am genuinely. I know you… There’s a lot going on in the market. Um, things can look down at times, but ultimately, I, I have a, a kind of rejuvenated look at everything on a daily basis. Um, and I think there’s some exciting times ahead, uh, for the UK and the US. A lot of changes, but again, as everybody said on here, if you’re nimble and wanna look at it, then, um, then there’s huge opportunities out there.

Um, when things change, inevitably there’s winners and losers, but there’s, there’s definitely a market there for it. Um, if anybody wants to get me, I love connecting with people, and I love chatting about the industry. I love chatting about social media. I love chatting about marketing. If anybody wants to reach me, um, we’ve got thesecretgardenglamping.uk is the glamping site website.

As I said, I’m also the president of GITA, so that’s the Glamping Industry Trade Association. That’s gita.org, G-I-T-A. Um, we’ve got some amazing members on there. And then in September, I’m over at the Glamping Show in Denver, so the Glamping Show Americas. Uh, my first time over there, and I’m a keynote speaker at the conference.

So yeah, anybody who’s going there, come and see me. Um, I’d love to connect with anybody from any part of the industry. 

[01:12:15] Brian Searl: Awesome. Well, thank you all for being here and for sticking with us for a few minutes as we went over and had a good discussion. Appreciate everybody. Uh, if you’re not sick and tired of hearing from me, me and Scott Bahr will be on Outwired in about 50-ish minutes now.

Uh, if not, we’ll see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Thanks, guys. Appreciate y’all. 

[01:12:31] Derry Green: Take it easy.

[01:12:32] Rafael Correa: Yeah.

[01:12:32] Miguel Huerta: Bye.