MC Fireside Chats – September 30th, 2026

[00:00:45] Brian Searl: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name’s Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground. Trying to enjoy the last few days of sunshine here. It’s a little cold, like not super cold. It’s about 14 degrees Celsius, ’cause we do the, the system that the rest of the world does here in Calgary, Alberta.

I don’t know what you guys are on in America- … what that means or something, but, uh, probably about, like, 55 maybe, something like that? I don’t know. It’s not, like, not cold. 

[00:01:09] Munro Murdock: Sounds- sounds about right. 

[00:01:10] Brian Searl: But anyway, like I got my little fire going right here, which I would like, I’d like to figure out a way to, like, have that in the shot, but it’s not really working too well for me today, so.

Um, I was supposed to be up in my studio, but I have a little graphics card issue, so, uh, it’s been going on all summer, but it’s forced me to be outside and it’s outdoor hospitality, so it’s even better that way, right? Uh, so thank you guys both. Thanks for both being here. Uh, this is kind of our one of those weird fifth week episodes, so we have, uh, none of our recurring guests that we would normally have on one, two, three, or four, so it’s just the two of us, or, or two of you and me.

Uh, and we’ll have a good kinda discussion here talking about your properties and some of the interesting things you have going on. Uh, and then maybe kind of where we see the future of the industry going, ’cause I was looking through a few of your websites, uh, just briefly before the show, uh, leaving most of it to kind of I want to discover it with the audience and then ask you questions, but let’s briefly go around and just you wanna introduce yourselves and then tell us a little bit about your properties.

[00:02:04] Stephanie Bias: Sure. 

[00:02:04] Munro Murdock: Okay. Yeah, go ahead, Stephanie. 

[00:02:06] Stephanie Bias: Okay. I’m Stephanie Bias. I’m the general manager at Camp Aramoni in Central Illinois. Um, we’ve got 11 safari-style tents, and, you know, they’re made of canvas, but they have hardwood floors and beds and restrooms ensuite. And then we also include breakfast and dinner in all of the room rates.

So we really try to take the work out of camping. 

[00:02:34] Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Stephanie. 

[00:02:36] Stephanie Bias: Thank you. 

[00:02:36] Brian Searl: Munro? 

[00:02:37] Munro Murdock: Hello. Yes, Munro Murdock. My wife Rachel and I own and operate North Haven Campground here in the North Idaho Panhandle. We acquired the campground about four years ago, and we added some, uh, glamping units to the, to the existing RV park, uh, and log cabins.

So we’ve got a good mix here of RV sites, log cabins, glamping wagons, glamping teepee tent campsites, and we’ve added a pavilion and hot tub. So we’re more of a pass-through area as people head out to Glacier and Banff and other things like that. Um, but yeah, so kind of a smaller mom-and-pop operation and, yeah, we’ve enjoyed it. It’s been fun. 

[00:03:15] Brian Searl: So before we get into, like, you know, Munro or Stephanie, your properties, uh, Munro, I have a quick question for you. Did you always have a cool name? How did you convince your mom to give you a name like Munro? Like, mine’s just Brian.

[00:03:26] Munro Murdock: Oh.

[00:03:26] Brian Searl: I know Toms and- … Munro sounds like the guy, like one of the murderers in Clue, the board game.

[00:03:31] Munro Murdock: Thank you. Yeah, you know, I’ve been blessed to have- 

[00:03:33] Brian Searl: Munro, dead in the library with a candlestick or something … 

[00:03:35] Munro Murdock: i’ve been blessed to have a unique name my whole life, you know, but, uh, so Munro is actually a Scottish clan name or, uh, something like that, so it’s the spelling with it being M-U-N-R-O-

[00:03:46] Brian Searl: Hmm …

[00:03:47] Munro Murdock: is a little different. I’m actually a middle child of nine kids, and all of, me and all of my siblings have M names, so all of our names start with M, so naturally my parents had to get a little creative and I think they liked unique names and so, yeah, it’s kind of an interesting alliteration. We all get the M&M initials, and I have a little bit of Scot- Scottish ancestry.

I think my parents had traveled to Scotland and just liked that name when they came across it there, so that’s how that came about. 

[00:04:14] Brian Searl: I mean, it’s a good name. I like it, so. 

[00:04:16] Munro Murdock: Yeah. Appreciate it. 

[00:04:18] Brian Searl: Uh, all right. So where do you guys wanna start? ‘Cause, like, I, I wanna delve into each of your properties individually, but I feel like there’s probably a larger picture to start with given it’s just the two of us on the show today and say, like, maybe we’ll start with you, Stephanie.

Like, how do you, how do you … Rewind us, right? Rewind the tape of your life. How do you think you got to the point where you were like, “I wanna open a glamping resort”? 

[00:04:41] Stephanie Bias: Um, I’m in the same boat as Munro. We’re family-owned. Um, my parents, Tim and Jennifer, they found the property, and, um, they currently have a business in electrical contracting, so this, like, did not match up at all.

And when they saw the property, my mom just fell in love with it, and she’s always loved just hosting people and kind of being, you know, like, the life of the party. She definitely has that personality that, that, that fits with hospitality. So, um, I was on board from day one, and, um, at this point we have about 50 seasonal employees, and then during the winter, um, in Illinois it gets really cold so we do have to close.

Um, and then during the winter we just have a small management team, mostly family. Um, so I mean, I never expected to work in this industry, but I love it. We’re from this area right next to Starved Rock State Park in Illinois, which is the most popular state park here. They get about 3 million visitors every year.

So it’s, it’s home and, you know, half my family works here, and so it- it’s a good time. 

[00:06:00] Brian Searl: So you talk about, like, you talk about your, your mother being, having that personality for hospitality, which I think is, to, to me it’s something that’s critical to have in a, in a business, especially, especially glamping.

Like, maybe you could get away with it a little bit in the campground industry, and certainly some people have on a macro level at some of their properties. Certainly not a majority, I don’t think, but some have for a while, or they’ve owned their parks for 40 years and just kinda get grumpy, and they’re like, “It’s time for me to retire.

I’d like to sell.” You know? But I think that hospitality component is extremely important, and we talk on this show about a variety of things, right? But I happen to be, like, one of the AI geeks. We’re developing a lot of technology for the industry, and, uh, one of the things that I always say is, like, technology is gonna be vital for the future.

Everybody’s gonna use AI, all that kinda stuff, but you need to do it in, in a tasteful tu- a tasteful way- 

[00:06:50] Munro Murdock: Mm-hmm … 

[00:06:50] Brian Searl: that doesn’t put it in the face of the guest, that allows you as the operator and owner to take advantage of these tools to focus more on the guest, to provide more hospitality, to be there for more guest service, and then you use AI in ways that allow you to personalize the stay or enhance the stay that don’t scream AI to somebody, right?

Or, or say that you have to talk to a chat bot instead of a human or s- or something like that, right? 

[00:07:14] Stephanie Bias: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:15] Brian Searl: The, the example I’ve always given is, like, the UPS, right? I, I, I don’t, I’m pretty good. I consider myself pretty talented when it’s getting around, like, the numbers of the press one, press two, and, and I can usually get to a human.

UPS defeated me. There, I don’t think there are any humans who work at UPS anymore at all. I, I’m not even sure that the CEO is alive. But I could… So, so what I mean is, is, is I think there’s, there’s an opportunity to provid- to use technology like that to provide and enhance the guest experience in such a way that you can also save money and also save time, and then allow you to do things that spend more time with the guest.

That’s a separate thing than what we’re talking about with your mom, because your mom is… You know, you need one of those people still, too, but I think it exposes the fact as we, as technology marches forward down this path that I think it’s gonna go, and many people do, uh, quickly, I think it, it will expose the people who don’t have that level of hospitality even more, whereas they’re able to hide a little bit kind of in the office doing things on the computer.

Do you agree with that, or…? 

[00:08:20] Stephanie Bias: I definitely agree with that. Um, we use AI, but it’s, it’s all on the back end. It’s just we’re using it in ways to streamline processes and make things easier on our staff. But I mean, when you call, a human answers. Um, and when you check in, it’s a person checking you in. We don’t currently have, like, a mobile check-in.

Um, you come in, and you- we give you a little tour of the property. We show you where you’re gonna go for breakfast and dinner, show you where the trails are. So I mean, it, AI definitely has its place, but you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna meet someone as soon as you walk in the door. 

[00:09:00] Brian Searl: What do you think about that?

[00:09:03] Munro Murdock: Yeah. You know, I think AI is a powerful tool that we can use and, and I agree that I think the s- the mindset or psychology of the owners and managers is key. ‘Cause even if you’re looking at implementing AI systems or processes in the business, the mindset of the, of the owner or manager will come through in that, right?

If you’re just trying to avoid having to do the work necessary to create an amazing guest experience, that will come through in how the technology is deployed as well. So I recently did a demo of an AI tool that can serve as like a virtual receptionist, and it’s really cool the capabilities that it has.

And I can see the value there because if I’m not able to answer every single call and someone wants to book now, they might rather work with an automated AI person- AI system, right, to book versus not getting me. And so I can see some value in that or after hours things. But even with that, you have to build it in a way where it serves the guest and they can always still connect with a real person.

Um, so I, I do think it’s wise for us in business to be staying on top of technology and embracing it because if we’re not, then we’re gonna kinda be left behind in a way, but we can’t lose sight of the importance of that human interaction, too, with guests to the level that they need it and expect it, right?

[00:10:18] Brian Searl: And the way I kind of look at it, you’re right. Like th- th- I think you’re right, right? Who, who’s to say if you actually are right? None of us are qualified enough to say that, but I think you are. Um, uh, I, I think, I think the way I view it is, is people tend to lean all in one way or the other, and usually when something new comes out or an idea comes across their desk or they wanna change or adapt, they lean all the way…

And we’re not just talking about tech or AI. They lean all the way left or all the way right or all the way up or all the way down or whatever it is, right? I just threw the up and down in there ’cause I didn’t wanna make it seem like it was politics. But, so, um, but so, like I, I believe I was looking at, Moreau, your website has a aerial shot, and we’ll show the websites later.

But I believe we were looking at, I was looking at your website earlier. It has a aerial shot of the campground, and it shows the little, the RV sites and the trees are all kinda surrounding it. Is that true? Is that right? Mm-hmm. Or am I thinking of your stuff? 

[00:11:06] Munro Murdock: Yeah.

[00:11:07] Brian Searl: Okay.

[00:11:07] Munro Murdock: Yeah. I mean, that 

[00:11:08] Brian Searl: sounds right. So, like, s- but this is, this is an example of what I’m talking about, too, is like I, I think, and we’ve talked about this on the show before, too, there’s been a rush in this industry mostly since COVID, um, but even sometimes before that, where there’s been a lot of people who have gotten into the industry not necessarily to focus solely on profits, but profits was a large part of the reason for doing so, right?

Everybody wants to make money. Not, you know, saying that’s a wrong, you know, methodology or anything like that. But there was a lot of people who got in and built RV parks to the extent where they were just kind of parking lots with fields where you pull in and concrete slabs and maybe a miniature golf course or a swimming pool, and this has been happening for 60, 70 years, right?

But it’s, I feel like it’s been exacerbated, especially in Texas and Florida and Arizona over the last, you know, five, 10 years. And I think that’s what I mean. That’s another example of, like the overcorrecting. Like, I think if you l- Look at, a- and you, and who knows how to define the terms properly, right?

That like, like I view camping, the word camping, as glamping, as anything that involves outdoor hospitality, as anything that connects you to nature without four walls that butt up against somebody else’s four walls, right? And I don’t know if that’s the correct definition. We, we could argue that to the death, and we have on this show with dozens and dozens of different people.

Um, but so I view, uh, like I think if I look at some of the, and I, when was your park built? 

[00:12:35] Munro Murdock: Uh, it was developed around 2019, 2020, and we acquired the cabins and RV sites in 2022. 

[00:12:42] Brian Searl: Okay. Like, I think when I, when my first guess was when I looked at your site, and obviously I was wrong, uh, was that you were an older kind of campground, not because of your architecture or the way you looked or anything, but just because- As I built my business in the early 2010s and ’11s and traveled around, like, I traveled around the country for four years straight to go into KOAs and other properties and saw, like, hundreds of them.

[00:13:05] Munro Murdock: Mm. 

[00:13:05] Brian Searl: I found that the ones that were older, not necessarily looked older, but were built a while ago and maybe renovated, kept up, some of them weren’t, some of them won’t, uh, tended to be more of that, like, the, they had the little neighborhoods with the trees, and they were a little, like, circular road. They weren’t as straight line, they weren’t as thought out, they weren’t as planned.

And, and did, does that make sense first-

[00:13:27] Munro Murdock: Yeah …

[00:13:27] Brian Searl: before I even go with the- 

[00:13:28] Munro Murdock: Yeah, it does. I think the way I’m envisioning it is, you know, having a little more space, having some buffer, having landscape between sites, having maybe more wooded forested area. And I know what you mean because, um, sometimes, you know, if it’s just an RV park right off the highway, someone’s stopping over, it kinda makes sense just, like, pack them in and f- and they’re not expecting a bunch of amenities or privacy necessarily.

But I agree with your point that if you’re going for more of a destination or camping experience, you know, you’re missing the mark, I think, if you’re not having some privacy and buffer and landscaping and trees and some of the nature effect. And it’s l- it’s like you’re saying, the pendulum swinging too far over here to, like, “Hey, how many sites can we fit in this two acres to just pack them in?”

And it’s like that has a potential downside effect on the customer experience. So we’re walking into this. We didn’t develop it, but I do like how there is… And we get a lot of comments from guests. They like how there’s hedges between all the sites. We’re a little more spaced out. We’re not packed in.

There’s another campground here in our town, which I’m sure they’re great, but they have the same amount of sites as us, but in a much more condensed acreage-

[00:14:30] Brian Searl: Yeah …

[00:14:30] Munro Murdock: and it’s just tight. And so we have 21 sites, but it’s more spread out across, uh, almost four acres, which gives people a little more breathing room.

[00:14:39] Brian Searl: The interesting question is, though, and, and I don’t know if any of you guys, I ha- I hate numbers, so I’m just gonna preface that before I say something about numbers and hope that one of you guys maybe likes them well enough to talk about them. But I was having a good conversation. Well, I don’t, as I, I was having a good conversation with Jeff Hoffman.

He’s on the show regularly. He works for Camp Strategies. He’s a consultant. He’s been in the industry for longer than I’ve been alive, I think, but that just makes him much, much smarter, not older. Um, gray hair and all, like I’m pretty old. Uh, but I was having a conversation with him on Monday, we were talking about, like, the, all the geeky stuff like the US Treasury yields and mortgage rates and how people are gonna refinance into all this, and I don’t wanna get into a discussion about that.

I’m not trying to scare you guys. But, but it’s interesting to me as we think about, like, overcorrecting and not correcting, do you feel like there’s an opportunity for someone to even develop a park like you have, Munro, in 2026? Because we were looking at the numbers, and if you take, like, it costs 60 to $80,000 roughly, depending on where you are, to develop a concrete padded RV site with sewer and hookups and all that stuff.

And the math that the banks are willing to loan you and the interest rate on the debt that’s higher now, like, and the cap rates that are lower and the value- that are higher and the valuations are lower, whatever. I’m mixing those two up, right? I’m not gonna count either. 

[00:15:56] Stephanie Bias: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:56] Brian Searl: It almost makes it seem impossible for you to go to a bank and justify a typical RV park, even if you have a couple cabins or something like that, or glamping units, when you also have to allocate space for the landscaping and the trees and everything else, because that makes the math not as appealing to the person loaning you the money, right?

[00:16:17] Munro Murdock: Yeah, those are great points. And I’m also not a huge fan of, of, of numbers and finances and tracking all that. My wife fortunately handles that. 

[00:16:25] Brian Searl: Well, what’s your fingers with Stephanie? She’s coming next. 

[00:16:26] Munro Murdock: Yeah. She’s- … Stephanie’s gonna save us from this one, but just general kinda quick, general thoughts on it are that it is a tricky dynamic with just the cost of land, the cost of, uh, of, you know, just interest rates and those factors, where if you’re trying to develop from scratch, I think it’s harder unless you can just find a really good deal on land, or maybe you already own acreage that you can then, you know, carve out some of your acreage you have and start developing.

That, that may be, be more advantageous. I think in my mind, if I’m going out there to get into the RV business or glamping, I would probably be looking for those little hidden gems, which are probably harder and harder to find of, you know, the old mom and pop ones that are kind of already there, and they have opportunity to be revamping or, or updating or refreshing, and maybe they’re ready to retire.

But I know there’s probably investors out there scouring for those night and day. Um, I, I like the 

[00:17:16] Brian Searl: Well, but it also doesn’t solve the problem either, ’cause those investors have to then have the capital to purchase the property, right? 

[00:17:22] Munro Murdock: You’re right. It’s still a tricky dynamic where unless they can just find a really good deal, um, it’s, it’s tough.

I mean, I think, I think we’ve seen this, like, rapid acceleration of lots of money fund, flowing into this industry, specifically RV parks and campgrounds, which has really pushed those, those values up and just the cost of things, coupled with the real estate markets just going ballistic in a lot of these desirable areas, right?

Just going through the roof, like in our area, doubling and tripling over 10 years. So I think it is a, a challenge, but it’s probably, in my opinion, kind of a good challenge because we just can’t have this never-ending growth and just parks going up everywhere. I don’t know if there’s really… Is there enough growth in the industry to support that?

I, I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s a strong industry, but I don’t know, understand that well enough to say if we get to a point where we’re in oversaturation of too many campgrounds or something. 

[00:18:13] Brian Searl: Well, I think, I think the demand is there, and we, and we, and Scott Bahr and I have talked about this. I don’t know if you know Scott.

He’s the one who does the North American Camping Report, uh, for KOA, has done it since their inception, and we’ve worked on some reports together. He, we host a podcast. A really brilliant guy. And, and we’ve talked about this for a while, that the, I don’t think there’s a demand problem in the industry, and I don’t really think there ever will be.

Because people are gonna wanna go outside. They’re gonna wanna go, you know, go camping, be in nature, go hiking, enjoy the, you know, white water rapids, the waterfalls, the biking, the cycling, whatever else. I could keep naming things, right? I don’t think we have a demand problem. I think we have a couple things in the industry, and this is just my thoughts.

Doesn’t mean I’m right, right? But I think we have two things. One is an affordability problem, and that’s not necessarily within the realm of control of, you know, Munro or Stephanie, who own the properties, because your costs are going up, too. Although there were some people on a micro level who, a minority of owners, who took advantage of the COVID thing, inject their prices up probably a little bit too high.

Um, so I don’t think we have a demand problem. I think we have an affordability problem, but then I also think we have a match problem with what the customer wants. And I think many of the traditional RV parks or traditional campgrounds have gone after the same demographic for the last 60 years, which is mostly the boomers, and those, that demographic who are still traveling but are starting to wind things up, right?

As every year goes, goes by. Um, those boomers have wanted something very specific, and those needs haven’t really changed over the last 40, 50 years. They’ve wanted the, just the standard campground they can go to on a weekend, take their grandkids, miniature golf, swimming pool, and the demands haven’t changed, and so the campgrounds haven’t changed with them.

But now I talk to so many people who are trying to figure out desperately, “How do I get the younger millennials in here or the older millennials?” Whichever way that demographic goes, right? The, the ones that grew up with phones in their hands versus the, uh, whatever. I’m right on the edge of the millennials.

Uh, and then the Gen Z’s and the gens al- Gen Alphas that come after them, and they, they don’t really have a concept of, like, understanding what these kind of guests truly want, and I think they want more of what you offer, Munro, and you offer, Stephanie, than they do a traditional RV park. But that becomes an issue of like, “Well, how do we figure that out?

How do we deliver it to them when the math doesn’t necessarily work the same?” I think the math works better for Stephanie than it may be for a traditional … And I’m not, don’t take it the wrong way, Munro, when I say, when I call you traditional, right? I, I think you’re traditional just from a campground perspective.

But that doesn’t mean less than. Sure. Uh, it’s just different. Yeah. Um, but I think that’s, those are the two things. I don’t, I don’t think we have a demand problem. I think we have an affordability problem that’s only going to exacerbate itself in the coming years. Uh, and then I think we have a mismatch with the product problem.

What do you think? 

[00:21:09] Stephanie Bias: Um, I can speak on that. So we do get a lot of younger people here, um, for bachelorette parties and weddings. Um, I think when it comes down to, you know, like what value do you bring to these people, um, I think just like what maybe makes us a little bit different is we have an event venue on site, and with that venue, we can offer different, you know, services, um, events that they can go to.

We do live music every Wednesday. So maybe just beyond the room rates of what we’re offering, there’s some extra bonuses that they’re looking for to feel like they’re really getting a good deal on that. 

[00:22:00] Brian Searl: Yeah, I mean, I don’t think, I mean, I guess I should quantify that statement and say, like, I, I don’t think you fall into the bucket that I just described or you do, Munro, right?

Um, I, I think the, I think the people who have been building like crazy in the last five years on a macro level, not all, but a majority probably, 50, 60%, I’ll make up a number randomly out of thin air with any data to support it. Uh, you know, I, I think those people are the ones who haven’t maybe studied the product market fit as much as they perhaps should have.

I think, I think if you are … And then, and then there are, and, and it doesn’t mean that glamping itself is exempt. I think there are a lot of glamping, there are campgrounds who threw up glamping cabin rentals side by side without necessarily thinking through their demographic. Some parks that works well for because their demographic wants that.

It can be more affordable. They wanna share neighborhoods. They’re used to growing up in the camping space, that’s normal for them ’cause they’ve gone to RV parks and campgrounds forever. Then there are the glamping, like I went to Ireland last year, last year in September. I’m old, so I don’t remember what I had for breakfast yesterday.

Uh, but last year in September I think I went to Ireland and, uh, we were looking at the different glamping resorts trying to figure out where we could stay at unique accommodations because once you get out of the main cities in Ireland and you’re driving along the coast of, you know, the edge, there’s a lot less places to stay at for, as far as major chain hotels.

And so we s- we noticed a difference between the glamping resorts, even in Ireland, and it’s the same way in the US, the same way in Canada, the same way in probably many other places. There’s the operator who stacks them side by side, and in Ireland it was a little bit better ’cause they stacked them side by side and they were all facing the ocean, right?

So a little bit of a cheat code there. But, so, but there was those people, and then there was the people who, you know, put them in caves or landscaped them or made something. You could just go to the website and see that they were truly unique. They had wood-fired hot tubs outside. They curated the yards.

They did, right? And I think that’s what you are more closer to, Stephanie. Is that fair? 

[00:24:03] Stephanie Bias: Yeah, I would agree with that. 

[00:24:04] Brian Searl: Okay. And so I wanna, again, I wanna talk about your property in a second, but I j- this, this is just a thought, like- So I, I think that what we need to do is figure out a way to identify and, and this seems like a no-brainer, but identify the type of customers that are coming to our area, what their needs, what their wants are, and then figure out now that I know that audience, now I, I think I know what I need to build, how do I build something that’s different from my neighbors?

Because I think if you can accomplish both of those things and show people enough of a value to come to your property, whether it’s a campground or a traditional RV park or, you know, glamping of any kind, then I think you’ll be fine generally, unless we have something really, really bad happen to the economy, which I’m not anticipating or hoping for, then I think that there’s, that you, there’s so much demand for people who are willing to spend their money in a unique, different way for an experience that, like Stephanie, did you have a down year?

My guess is you had an up year. 

[00:25:02] Stephanie Bias: It, it’s been a good year. 

[00:25:04] Brian Searl: Okay. Yeah, but if you talk on a macro level to, to the campground industry, again, macro, 20,000 foot view, I think the number averages for transient RV parks is somewhere between down eight and down 12 or more percent. Just RV and just transient, not long-term and not glamping at this park.

[00:25:25] Stephanie Bias: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:26] Brian Searl: So like, like Stephanie, how do you think that you set yourself apart? You talked a little bit about it, right? But how do you think you truly set yourself apart and appeal to a demographic that, that makes you different from the others? 

[00:25:39] Stephanie Bias: Um, from the get-go, we wanted to include meals. Um, just from our own travels, we’ve noticed that you typically need to find somewhere else to eat if you’re staying at some kind of campground or similar situation.

Um, or you can cook your own food if there’s a kitchen or a fire. Um, so we hired a chef right from the get-go, developed the menu, built the kitchens, and that has kind of been our, like, most unique part of the stay, I think, and most memorable. A lot of our reviews are about the food, which is something we strive for.

So I think offering that and keeping them on site versus off site, I mean, then there’s more value for us, more opportunity for sales in the gift shop or upgraded experiences. Like, um, we offer massages in the tents, a massage therapist will come to your room. Um, so yeah, just really like trying to focus on keeping them on property and giving them different opportunities to either get outside, um, explore the trails, or we will give them recommendations for the nearby towns and that too.

[00:26:56] Brian Searl: So the high touch. is one of, one of the main selling points? Is that a fair- is that a good… I don’t know. I’m not a glamping operator. You tell me if that’s a good word to use, but how, like that’s what it sounds like. You just like you’re, you’re there for the guests whenever you need them, whenever they need you.

[00:27:10] Stephanie Bias: Yeah. Yeah. We are definitely, I, we don’t really use the word, but we are like the concierge service.

[00:27:16] Brian Searl: Yeah.

[00:27:17] Stephanie Bias: If they need anything, we’ll take them where they need to go. 

[00:27:20] Brian Searl: What do you think, Munro? 

[00:27:22] Munro Murdock: Yeah, I, I mean, I think that’s a really neat concept that they have and, and a unique selling proposition of really creating this almost like an all-inclusive type of experience, which is I would say somewhat unique in America, like in our industry here.

Um, and but then you see how it affords itself to higher nightly rates than if they’re just s- simply renting glamping tents, right? And so for us, we’re, we’re kind of on a- another side of the spectrum where we, we have a variety of options, but we’re not doing this high touch, you know, full service. We’re not doing meals, but we do make the guest experience positive in that we make it really easy for them to come and go.

They can check in contactless if they want. We do have a camp store. We do have some cool onsite amenities with a hot tub and pavilion, but we’re more geared towards the independent travelers who are doing their thing and just wanna come and go. And if they wanna check in in the office, great. If they wanna just check in directly at their site, we give them all the info to do that.

So we’re taking a little bit different of an approach, but the thing I like about that as an owner/operator is it frees up more of my time to focus on other aspects of the business where I don’t have to check in 100% of my guests or do a lot of hand-holding. And if they want that, we’re here for them to do that.

Um, but with our philosophy, you know, we’ve been blessed to be able to start from scratch, meaning like a new name, a new Google profile and everything four years ago and become the highest rated campground in the state of Idaho with, with regards to Google Reviews, you know, over 400 reviews, you know, 4.9 star rating.

So it’s interesting, and I feel like with your discussion what you’re talking about, campgrounds that are more traditional, like you’re saying, could do well if they have extra space to add in some glamping or to add in tent camping or add some variety. I think that could serve them very well because then they’re able to add in a whole other demographic that they might be missing entirely.

But I think they should only do that if they’re prepared to truly be in the hospitality business ’cause running, you know, RV sites is probably a bit different than running these glamping sites effectively, running cabins. And so if you’re willing to get into hospitality, I think it helps balance things out with some of those down numbers you’re talking about.

We haven’t been as impacted like that because we’ve had strong cabin and glamping, uh, booking season this summer 

[00:29:37] Brian Searl: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s– When you step back and look at the industry as a whole, I think everybody is gonna have to be able in the next few years, if the– unless the economy does some crazy reversal, but even, even then, right, with the millennials and Gen Z and Gen Alpha coming up with their demographics anyway, I think everybody’s gonna have to be able to pick up the phone and say instantly what makes me different and have a real answer for it, not my customer service is better.

Like your answer, Munro, was, “I’m different than the park down the street from me because they’re more of that they have it all crammed into one, you know, smaller space. They have the same amount of sites.” That’s a clear difference maker, right? And so I think if every park is, and every park can’t answer that on day one, but I think if every park has an answer to that question, then they’re gonna be pretty well set up for, like, I think the demand is still gonna be there 

[00:30:25] Munro Murdock: I, I agree. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you gotta know what you have and be confident in, in selling it and not, we never disparage any of the other campgrounds. But we have people come to us all the time from these other places saying, “Hey, you know, stayed over there but we wanted something different.” And, and so we welcome that.

And the focus should always be on our own businesses, properties, and guests, and how do we just make that an awesome experience and not really concern ourselves too much about the competition. We need to be aware of what they’re doing but we need to be fully focused on our businesses and how to just make them as awesome as they can be.

And if we’re focused in that direction, like, the guests will feel it, they’ll experience it, they’ll have an awesome experience and we don’t have to concern ourselves too much with poor ratings because we’re working hard for what they want. 

[00:31:06] Brian Searl: 100% agree. Uh, Stephanie, you wanna talk us through your property?

Do you have, did you figure out how to share screen? I put it on … So, so for the audience who isn’t here, we were talking backstage. Normally, I would share the screen of different websites that we wanna look through but I’m out here on my phone right now, uh, and I don’t have somebody operating my studio like I normally do.

So I asked these wonderful guests to share their own properties and kind of talk us through it, which may be honestly an interesting way to do it in the future. But I’ll turn it over to you, Stephanie. Just kind of talk us through, like, I don’t know how often you look at your own website, right? What do you think that goes through your head when you, when you look at your own website and, and how you view yourselves?

[00:31:44] Stephanie Bias: Can you see my screen? 

[00:31:46] Brian Searl: I can, yep. 

[00:31:46] Stephanie Bias: Okay, good. Um, so we have 11 units. We were actually limited by our county. They said we can’t build any more than that. Um, we were the first business in the county to have these kinds of units. We’re still the only one to have these kinds of units. Um, we’re on 100 acres and we have 11.

So maybe one day we’ll apply for more, um, and see maybe if we can add different kinds of units, maybe something that’s year-round, um, like an A-frame cabin or maybe, like, a tiny house. Um, because right now our season is May through mid-November in Illinois. Um, but yeah, I don’t really go on my website too often, so this is fun.

Um, we have, you know, all the different rooms listed. So with the different tents, they’re all named after native Illinois wildflowers and have slightly different layouts. So some of them we call family tent- 

[00:32:47] Brian Searl: Can I ask-

[00:32:47] Stephanie Bias: Yeah …

[00:32:48] Brian Searl: can I ask why you went with the wildflower name? Just curious. 

[00:32:51] Stephanie Bias: Um, you know, it really fits with the property.

We restored the prairie that was here. Um, we got rid of some invasive species that were kinda taking over, and we work on Illinois prairie restoration every year, multiple times a year. So it really just fit in. 

[00:33:06] Brian Searl: Cool. Sorry to interrupt you. I was just curious. 

[00:33:09] Stephanie Bias: Yeah. No, that’s a good question. So some of them are more geared towards families.

Um, they’re gonna have bunk beds in them. Let’s see if I have one. Yeah, so example Partridge P, it has a king bed, a queen sofa bed, and a bunk bed. So those units can sleep up to six. And then we have our standard units like Foxglove here, which has a king bed and a queen sofa bed, and then we have two honeymoon suites like Flora and Fauna that just have a king bed, and they’re closest to the river.

So, um, the way the booking process works is you can decide which room you want to stay in. Um, you let us know how many people are staying with you, and then from there we kind of start building out the rest of the stay. So you can pick what time you come to breakfast, what time you come to dinner, and then you can go through the different add-ons.

So I’m actually going to pop open a different tab to show the add-ons that we offer. 

[00:34:16] Brian Searl: While you do that, while you do that, and I want to walk through this, but like I, I, I really think that food and beverage, despite the … I don’t know if it’s stereotypical, the kind of lower margins on that, at least that’s what you hear from restaurant owners.

I think this is one of the things that truly sets people apart, and I’m not saying, like, every property should do food and beverage. I think there’s really good reasons not to do food and beverage, depending on your location and where you’re at and what your type of demographic is. 

[00:34:40] Stephanie Bias: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:40] Brian Searl: But, like, food and beverage to me, and, and I’ll go back to Ireland again, right?

I ca- I can’t remember the name of the property we stayed at, just … I’m sorry, property in Northern Ireland. Uh. It started with an F. Uh, but, uh, we, we stayed there and, and, and one of the most … Like, it was cabins on a little, like, kind of recessed pond area. There was a huge acreage. There was kayaking and everything else to do, uh, which we didn’t get to take part of mostly ’cause we were driving in really late.

But one of the most interesting things was to just the walk to the chef quality restaurant that was, like, five-star food, that was really, like … I mean, it was out in the middle of nowhere. There was nowhere else to eat. But I think that really truly kind of set the experience apart for us. It just made us feel different than normal glamping, if that makes sense.

[00:35:27] Stephanie Bias: Yeah. It, it does make sense. A lot of our guests give us similar feedback. Um, it’s not that we’re in a remote location. There are plenty of restaurants nearby. Um, but it just kind of takes, like, the decision-making out of it. You don’t have to plan, you know, a full itinerary for the stay. You know, “Okay, I’m gonna have breakfast here, I’m gonna have dinner here,” and it kind of takes, like, the decision fatigue out of it.

[00:35:53] Brian Searl: Go ahead, show us what you got. 

[00:35:55] Stephanie Bias: Okay. So, um, we offer yoga classes and fishing lessons. Those have been really popular by appointment. And then the rest of the packages are food and beverage related. So while we don’t offer lunch, we do have a Chicago dog package, which with us being an hour and a half from Chicago, has been very popular.

So that’s an option. And then we also do whiskey and chocolate flights, as well as wine and cheese flights. Those are nice when guests first check in, um, if they’re looking for maybe some way to r- unwind before, before dinner that night. And then lastly, we have our luxury picnics, which are very involved.

Um, we go out into the woods, we set up a location for them, and then they choose which menu they want. There are some different menus just based on, like, how much food you actually wanna order. And then on the last page you can choose which wine you wanna have with the picnic. So we definitely are very involved, and we really get to know the guests while they’re on site.

Um, they’re in our main ar- like, spaces very frequently. Um, and I think that lends itself to, like, more personalized reviews when they do leave reviews for us, because it seems like a lot of our guests mention staff by name, which as the general manager, makes me very happy. 

[00:37:29] Brian Searl: So I, I have a question for you and, and you can say no if you’re not willing to share, right?

Or just share what you’re willing to share. But if I put myself in the, in the shoes of either a typical campground operator or a glamping operator who’s just getting started or, or dreaming about what they wanna offer, or maybe has the units but hasn’t thought through the experience like you have yet- I imagine myself looking at something like the luxury picnic experience and saying, “Man, that’s gonna take a lot of time, and a lot of staff, and a lot of hassle.

How could you ever make money on something like that?” Is, are those things, do you find profitable enough to make them worthwhile? Or do they just add to the experience overall, and thus allow you to charge maybe a higher room rate? 

[00:38:13] Stephanie Bias: Um, you know, in the very beginning we had those same questions. And there have been experiences that we’ve offered and then have taken off the menu because it wasn’t profitable for us.

Um, we found that the guests are willing to pay a higher, you know, sticker price for the picnics because they are so involved. And on that, on that same end, it makes it profitable for us. Um, like when it comes to staff, you know, we definitely have to have someone in the kitchen who prepares the food, and then one person, I’ll say, out in the field, um, who goes and sets everything up.

So all in all, I mean, it can be a two or three-hour ordeal. Um, but we’ve priced it accordingly. 

[00:39:00] Brian Searl: Okay. Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it. Like, uh, it’s just-

[00:39:03] Stephanie Bias: Yeah …

[00:39:04] Brian Searl: ’cause I think those things are some of the key stuff that, like, it, it seems like, ’cause the other flip side of that is is if an owner or as me who’s not brave enough to own a glamping resort or campground, uh, I just do AI and tech behind a computer.

Like, it seems to me like w- if I were consulting for somebody I’d be like, “Yeah, offer a luxury picnic experience.” Like, that’s an amazing thing. But then you don’t, but since sometimes people like me don’t take it all the way through the like does it make the money, does it not, uh, and, and have all those kind of authentic kind of owner experiences of like I’ve tried this and it hasn’t worked or it did work.

[00:39:37] Stephanie Bias: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:38] Brian Searl: But I think those little touches are like- I think it’s hard to deliver the right way, but I think it’s easy to conceptualize. Does that make sense? Is that fair? 

[00:39:48] Stephanie Bias: Yeah. I mean, we’ve definitely gone through different menu iterations. Like for example, some of our first menus, as soon as you took the food outside, it just like immediately went down in quality because of the weather.

It might be too hot and, you know, the food’s melting or it’s not holding up. So we’ve had to think through like more hearty food options. Um, the wine we include with every picnic. Originally we were offering cocktails, but same thing. You’d make the cocktail and by the time you’d get it to the guest it’d be too watered down.

So it just, it takes some trial and error. But at this point, um, we have repeat guests who choose to do the picnic every year that they stay with us, and they do appreciate that the menu is different every year 

[00:40:36] Brian Searl: You gotta figure out the delivery mechanism. Like, there needs to be like a underground trolley that shoots everything through like a- 

[00:40:41] Stephanie Bias: That would be amazing.

[00:40:43] Brian Searl: like a wood log that just opens up next to them, and they’re like, “Oh, shoot, I thought that was a regular log,” and my drink, my cocktails come out. Yeah. 

[00:40:50] Stephanie Bias: You should’ve seen me in the ATV with the cocktail shaker in one hand and my hand on the wheel trying to get into the woods.

[00:40:58] Munro Murdock: Wow. 

[00:41:00] Brian Searl: What do you think, Munro, of, of Stephanie’s property before you share yours?

[00:41:04] Munro Murdock: Yeah. You know, I think it’s very impressive. It’s evident that it’s very, you know, high-end, high-touch luxury experience, and it just, it’s kind of, it’s a… I was thinking, man, how do you, why do you need so many staff, you know, for so few accommodation units? But there really is-

[00:41:20] Stephanie Bias: Exactly …

[00:41:20] Munro Murdock: a lot that you guys have going on, and so it, it’s really interesting.

You know, I like that niche and just the setting you have. It’s very unique. And, um, so it’s, it’s not surprising that you’re doing well. I mean, there’s clearly a tremendous amount of time and effort and energy that goes into running something of that level. So yeah, I was, I was very impressed with, with all of that.

[00:41:41] Stephanie Bias: Thank you. 

[00:41:41] Brian Searl: I, I think, I think what it comes down to is the time and effort, and that doesn’t mean that you gotta spend millions of dollars, uh, to add different amenities. Certainly that’s one path that you can take. The Yogi Bear Jellystone Parks do it really well. Um-

[00:41:54] Munro Murdock: Mm …

[00:41:54] Brian Searl: I think it’s just that time and effort, and that effort may not always be the same, might not be proportional.

Some people might have to spend more effort and other people have to spend less effort. But I think it’s just understanding your guests, what they want, and then, like, you have this unbelievable partner, we’re not gonna talk about AI again, but this unbelievable partner where you can just go there and say, like, “Hey, I’ve got this property and I’ve got these tents and I’m near the city and this is my address, and can you give me like 10 really unique, creative ideas from first principles that, like, will blow people away that they’ve never experienced before that will make them come to my property?”

[00:42:25] Stephanie Bias: Yeah. 

[00:42:25] Brian Searl: Boom. And you got 10, and probably 8 of them might be like, “Mm, I don’t know,” right? But two, and then you do it again. You get two more. So, uh, I think it’s just interesting, the, that guest experience to me coming from the… I’m more from the traditional, that’s where my exposure started was the traditional campgrounds, the KOAs, the RV parks.

And so as I see this industry continue to evolve, it kind of excites me to see people, like, planning and, and trying new things, and I think there’s just so much room to go. And for the people who are early adopters, which will probably be the next 10 years the way our industry tends to move in speed-

[00:43:00] Munro Murdock: Mm-hmm

[00:43:01] Brian Searl: uh, those people are gonna do really, really well for themselves if they’re willing to put in the time and effort. All right. Let’s see what you got, Munro. 

[00:43:07] Munro Murdock: All right. So I’ll jump in here with a, um… Let’s see if I can do a screen share. I’m gonna start with a couple images and then I’ll jump into our website.

So is it… Okay, there we go. That’s working. Um, all right. So this is kind of an aerial view. Are you seeing the images toggle here as I move it? 

[00:43:29] Brian Searl: Uh, maybe. I don’t… It’s too s- small for me, but I see the… Yeah, I can see the different images. Yes. 

[00:43:33] Munro Murdock: Okay. 

[00:43:33] Brian Searl: As you change them. 

[00:43:34] Munro Murdock: So this is just a quick aerial view. We have five luxury log cabins, two two-bedrooms and three one-bedrooms.

We have 21 RV sites, 10 are full hookup and 11 are water/electricity. We’ve got, uh, two glamping wagons, a glamping tipi, pavilion, playground, hot tub, and we have 10, uh, tent- or I’m sorry, five tent campsites. And so we have… That’s kind of the variety that we have. Um, I’m gonna switch over to our website here, if it’ll let me swap it.

So I’m gonna go over to that. So this is our website, northavencampground.com. On the homepage, just kind of a summary overview. We have various buttons where people can go in and check availability and book their stay. So we’re showcasing the log cabins here, and then our RV sites, glamping wagons. We just have the one glamping tipi currently.

And, uh, then just some information about exploring North Idaho and our town here of Bonners Ferry. So that’s that. Uh, we have a little bit about us. My wife, Rachel, and I bought the campground four years ago. And a kind of fun story there we had with it is we visited Bonners Ferry for the first time in the fall of 2020.

We actually stayed in cabin number 2, first time in town, not knowing that we’d be buying the campground in the future. Ended up buying a house on that trip, and then a year after moving here, we ended up having an opportunity to buy the campground. So it’s kind of a fun story as far as that goes. Um, fun times.

So then we have the accommodation pages, you know, luxury log cabins. They’re fully set up like a typical Airbnb would be with all the, you know, all the, you know, full kitchens. And we have, uh, king size beds, queen size sleeper sofas. So our two-bedroom cabins can accommodate up to six or eight guests, and then our one bed, one bath cabins can accommodate up to four guests is how that works.

And so you can kind of see our campground map here, the layout. The cabins are f- fairly centrally together, uh, near our bathhouse facility. And then we have the full hookup sites here. And then we had plans to expand, but we ended up just purchasing the neighboring lot and leaving it wooded for now is what we’re doing.

Um, the covered wagons are a hit. The, these are the Conestoga glamping wagons. It’s kind of modeled after the large freight style, uh, wagons of pioneer era. They have a king bed in there, a bunk bed, a little table, and we also have a private little bath house. So each wagon guest gets their own private bathroom, which is really cool with You know, you have HVACs, you have heat and AC and electricity.

So it’s, it really is that glamorous camping experience and people really enjoy the wagons. We’ve had some YouTube content creators come and stay in our glamping units and share some content on YouTube about that, which has been super fun. The glamping teepees- 

[00:46:24] Brian Searl: Munro, did you ever see the mo- uh, show on Paramount Plus, uh, 1883?

[00:46:29] Munro Murdock: Um, you know, I didn’t really watch that. I heard about that show, but I’ve not really watched it myself. 

[00:46:34] Brian Searl: It’s a good show. I want somebody to do that at some point. I don’t know how they’d get their park insured to provide an authentic- … Western glamping experience-

[00:46:42] Munro Murdock: Right …

[00:46:42] Brian Searl: in like a Conestoga wagon, where you could-

[00:46:44] Munro Murdock: Yeah

[00:46:44] Brian Searl: just wake up and there might be, like, you know, a gunfight at the O.K. Corral outside your place. With blanks, of course, to be safe.

[00:46:50] Munro Murdock: Yeah.

[00:46:51] Brian Searl: Uh, and then, like, maybe the wagon wheel just falls off in the middle of the night, just like it would when you’re going across the country or something. Um-

[00:46:58] Munro Murdock: That would be awesome

[00:46:58] Brian Searl: it’s, I, I bet you that you could find a niche for that.

[00:47:01] Munro Murdock: Yeah.

[00:47:02] Brian Searl: I bet you anything you could imagine in a creative mind, you could find a niche of people who would pay you to stay there for that experience. 

[00:47:08] Munro Murdock: Yeah, you, you might have a chance of getting dysentery, you know, you just never know what might happen.

[00:47:12] Brian Searl: Yeah, like, like the wag- the Oregon Trail game in school, yeah. 

[00:47:16] Munro Murdock: Exactly. And it’s funny, if you, if you go watch this YouTube video created by this gal, Nevaeh Sousa, she kind of incorporates some of that Oregon Trail stuff into it, like, “You’ve died of dysentery,” you know, just funny little things. Um, anyways, so this is our glamping teepee.

We were gonna do multiple. We’ve just done one for now, but we do have room to add additional glamping sites in the future, so we’ve, you know, talked about that. Um, and then, you know, of course, we have the RV sites. So again, our- ours is more designed to be a little more on that traditional side, where you can book your type of accommodation preferred.

If you click on Book Now, it launches a separate reservation engine that takes you right in, where you can check real-time availability. You can go into a semi-interactive map here, where it will show, based on your dates you’re inquiring about, um, what the availability looks like and, you know, which sites are available and which aren’t, which is nice.

So that helps people to kinda see what they wanna do. So we try to make that, uh, as easy as possible for people to just, you know, find what they want to book, book online 24/7, or they can call us, and we do find that we’re getting about 70 to 80% of people just booking online. And, um, so that we do like utilizing the technology that way.

Um, a lot of people are still very old school when it comes to RV travel, and so they just… They might look on the site, have trouble figuring out how to book, and so they, they’ll just call us, and we’ll book them over the phone. But, um, yeah, it’s, it’s been fr- fun. I think I kinda look at our setup as more of a hybrid, where you have kinda the old school, a little bit of the new school with the glamping, bringing it in, and I feel like that variety has served us well and helped us to consistently increase revenues over the past four years.

And, um, and we are actually looking to list the campground and, and sell it too, and so that’s kinda been a fun progression of saying, “Okay, taking a campground from strictly cabins and RV sites, adding to it and see what that does in terms of, of value.” And, um, yeah, and so it’s been, it’s been a really cool experience for us.

I’ve enjoyed it a lot. It’s been one of the more fun jobs, I’d say, that I’ve had in my adult life. 

[00:49:19] Brian Searl: What are you gonna do after this when you sell it? 

[00:49:22] Munro Murdock: Oh, yeah. So I’m a real estate broker by trade. I mean, that’s what I’ve done for the past 15 years or so in Hawaii- and now in North Idaho as well. So just staying here in the North Idaho Panhandle, probably pivoting over to more real estate type of activities is the plan.

[00:49:39] Brian Searl: Yeah, and, and, and I do wanna say, like, for the people who are watching this, we have a big audience of, of the traditional RV park and campground owners and operators. Like, there’s nothing… I’m not, I don’t mean to come across as saying that I think there’s anything wrong with that, I just think it’s different.

And I think as we move forward and there’s new generations that are wanting to experience the outdoors, as the evidence says there is in younger millennials and Gen Z and Gen Alpha, there has to be a product to match that demand. And I think the more that you’re willing to adapt to that, and that doesn’t mean, like, all of a sudden being an entire glamping resort with luxury picnics like Stephanie is, right?

[00:50:12] Munro Murdock: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:13] Brian Searl: Uh, it means figuring out, how do I blend that in, whether through services or accommodations like Munro has, or something else to say that I’ve recognized that, you know, there’s an opportunity here for me to increase my business by appealing to audiences that otherwise I traditionally might not thought, might, might not have thought that I appealed to.

[00:50:35] Munro Murdock: Absolutely. So. Even just, uh, one case in point on that, Brian, just I can share briefly is interestingly enough, there are no, there really aren’t many other campgrounds in our vicinity that offer tent site camping, uh, tent campsites. Kind of simple. I mean, a tent campsite is very basic. We’re charging between $35 to maybe $39 a night or something like that.

And it seems inconsequential from, like, a revenue standpoint, but it’s a needed niche. We have the motorcycles come through and do adventure riding through the state, the Backcountry Discovery Route and things like that. So at the end of the day, we end up bringing in thousands of dollars of revenue every year from tent sites, you know, and they use our bathhouse facilities and things like that, so there are costs associated with it.

But even just adding incremental, you know, thing like a cheap tent site, it, it helps. I mean, it really adds to your profitability and also just to your diversity. So if people have space, I think they absolutely are well-suited to think outside the box a little bit, maybe willing to experiment, ’cause it’s not that expensive to test out some of these ideas.

And if they don’t work, you can do something different. But I think it, it is that idea of adapt or die. I mean, you really do have to be willing to adapt in a way, um, to, to utilize, you know, some of the technologies and get into some of the other accommodation options if you’re kind of an old-school traditional campground.

[00:51:57] Brian Searl: Yeah, and there is a hybrid between this. We’ve talked about this on the show, I think, a couple times before briefly. Apparently we’ve just been doing the show for too many years and talked about everything. But I keep saying that I think three or four times. But I, I think, uh, there’s an opportunity here for some of the more traditional campgrounds and RV parks to offer, like, even a luxury tenting experience that’s not all the way to what Stephanie’s offering, and not a full-on glamping experience, but something where you just prep the tent in advance, and you have a sleeping bag there, and you have, like, a mat, and it’s comfortable, and you have lighting in there.

And, like, you’re curating the experience because we’ve done, we’ve seen this in our research that there are a lot of people, especially in Gen Z Who really wanna go outside and enjoy the outdoors, but don’t understand how because their childhood was not the same as mine was, for example, where I was climbing trees and falling out and experiencing the outdoors with bugs and twisting my ankle, and it just isn’t the same today with all the screens and devices and helicopter parenting.

I’m not putting every parent in that bucket, right, but it’s more prevalent today than it was back when I was growing up. We used to run around the neighborhood and not come home till 10:00 at night. “Oh, you’re home. Okay, great.” “You missed dinner. Too bad. You gotta go home and… You gotta go to bed without food, right?”

Um, but, uh, I, I think that’s the, the key is just, is saying like, “Yes, there’s these products out there that are successful, glamping and RV parks and regular tent camping, but how can I create something not necessarily entirely new, but take that away from somebody that’s doing it really, really well and say, ‘Here’s a product that maybe I can charge $75 or $125 a night for a curated tenting experience.'”

And again, that doesn’t take much, like you’re saying, to try it out, and if it doesn’t work, then you’ve bought a tent and a sleeping bag, and you just use it for yourself, right? 

[00:53:36] Munro Murdock: Yeah, that’s actually a really cool idea that I never would’ve thought of is taking the tent camp site idea and just setting it up and someone can roll up and say, “Oh, they’ve got a cool tent,” and it’s not a glamping tent.

It’s just literally a camping tent but maybe ready to go with the things they need. That’s a wonderful example, I think, of just creative thinking and just exploring ideas that would be very inexpensive to test. 

[00:53:58] Brian Searl: Have the campfire ready, have the… Because that’s, that’s what… We know this. We know they’re just nervous and, and, and they’re nervous because when you or I, when we would make a mistake when we were kids, and I don’t mean to age you, Munro.

I’m, maybe I’m older than you, maybe I’m younger than you. We’ll just keep it secret. Um, so, um, but when we were younger, like y- you would go to the mall to meet your friend and, like you’d go to one end of the f- of the mall, and they… You’d just stand, you’d be like, “Meet me by the fountain.” You’d go to one end of the mall and stand by the fountain, and he’d never show up.

Then you go to school the next day and be like, “Where were you?” He was like, “I was standing by the fountain at the other end of the mall.” But you had no way to text each other and communicate that you were at the wrong fountain at the wrong place. You just… It, it just happened. 

[00:54:39] Munro Murdock: Mm. 

[00:54:39] Brian Searl: But now if you make a mistake, it’s all over social media and millions of people can see it forever.

Yeah, that’s interesting. And that’s what makes me nervous about not knowing outdoors or setting up their tent wrong or making a mistake. Mm. So the more that you can curate that experience and make it easier for them, the more they’re willing to come because they do want to come. It’s the same thing as the demand versus affordability.

It’s a demand versus uncertainty in the case of not all Gen Z, but many Gen Z. What do you think, Stephanie? It’s been a long time since we talked to you. 

[00:55:13] Stephanie Bias: Well, I don’t know how much older you guys are than me. I mean, I’m 28, so –

[00:55:20] Munro Murdock: 20 years older … 

[00:55:21] Stephanie Bias: um, 20, okay. So I mean, it is really fun to see when families are here, and they bring their kids, and their kids have never been camping before.

Maybe they’ve grown up in Chicago. They really don’t get outside other than like, you know, parks areas or recess at school. Um, and they get to experience nature for the first time with very few barriers. I mean, they don’t have to pack the car up and buy all this gear. Um, the experience is already ready for them.

I had a little girl once. She was like, “Oh my gosh, can you believe how many stars are out here?” And I’m like, “Yeah, it always looks like this. We have little to no light pollution in this area.” And she’s like, “I just don’t see that where I live.” So yeah, I mean, I think there’s different ways to cater to different people, but at the end of the day, we’re finding ways to connect people to nature, and I think if you work in this industry, you have to care about nature in some way.

[00:56:26] Brian Searl: For sure. 

[00:56:26] Munro Murdock: That’s cool. 

[00:56:27] Brian Searl: All right. 

Let’s spend the last few minutes of the show. Stephanie, do you have a question for Munro? 

[00:56:33] Stephanie Bias: Do you get a lot of group bookings? 

[00:56:36] Munro Murdock: Yeah, that’s a great question. We, we have consistently had some decent group bookings. I would say not a lot. Once we, uh, added the pavilion a couple years ago, it helped.

And so we, we have been getting a little bit more every summer. I’d say on average in the summer we’ll get between maybe four to six is all. So it’d be maybe booking a lot of the cabins and glamping units for a wedding group that’s getting married off-site or a little family reunion. So I, I love the idea of group bookings.

They’re actually great, right? Because they just book so many units and it can be very helpful. Um, it’s an area I’d like to do, do more of, for sure. 

[00:57:13] Stephanie Bias: Yeah. Yeah, I’m curi- I was curious if maybe they rented the cabins and then Uncle Bob has his RV and cousin-

[00:57:21] Munro Murdock: Yeah …

[00:57:22] Stephanie Bias: has their tent, so that’s fun. 

[00:57:23] Munro Murdock: Yeah, it’s, it’s worked out well for that. We’ve had a few smaller reunions and some wedding groups, and we partner with a local wedding venue, say, “Hey, if anyone books the venue and wants accommodations, we’ll give them a discount.” And so that’s been a nice collaboration with other local business owners and stuff. 

[00:57:38] Stephanie Bias: That’s great.

[00:57:39] Munro Murdock: Yeah. 

[00:57:40] Brian Searl: All right, flip it.

Munro, you have something for Stephanie? 

[00:57:43] Munro Murdock: Yeah, I think, uh, my, my question for you would be, you know, what do you, what do you see for the future? I mean, do you have any big plans or next goals for this business for the future, or is it just, just keep going with what you’re doing now? 

[00:57:56] Stephanie Bias: I would say just find a way to make this more sustainable long term.

And what I mean by that is I’m very involved in the day-to-day, and I can’t be that way forever, neither can my mom, neither can my aunt.

[00:58:11] Munro Murdock: Right.

[00:58:11] Stephanie Bias: So, I mean, it’s a discussion of who do we need to hire, who do we need to train to make sure that in 10 years we don’t wanna just fall dead. Yeah. 

[00:58:21] Munro Murdock: Yeah. 

[00:58:21] Stephanie Bias: Right. 

[00:58:22] Munro Murdock: Yeah, that’s a smart way of thinking, right?

Where you wanna continue to grow this, but it does require a lot day to day, so that makes sense. That’s cool. 

[00:58:32] Brian Searl: All right, well, we’ve got a couple minutes left. We’re gonna wrap up. Uh, Stephanie, any final thoughts? And then where can they learn more about, uh, y- what you got going on with your glamping resort if they’re interested?

[00:58:41] Stephanie Bias: Um, no, I just, I appreciate you having us on. Um, if they’re looking for maybe an event experience where they have their event hosted and then they’re also staying on site, we are a good location for that. Um, and it’s camparamoni.com. 

[00:59:00] Brian Searl: Thank you so much for being here, Stephanie. I appreciate it. Munro, final thoughts, and where can they find out more about your,

You gave your website already, but just again for the people who missed it. 

[00:59:07] Munro Murdock: Yeah. Thank you so much. It’s been great to be here and to meet with both of you. Um, yeah, if, if anyone in the industry is looking to expand, I’d love to have a conversation about our plans to soon list the campground. And for the guests and travelers, you can just find us at northavencampground.com.

It’s a great, beautiful area up here in the North Idaho Panhandle 

[00:59:28] Brian Searl: Uh, awesome. Well, thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. We normally have Outwired here, another podcast, in about 45 minutes, but Scott Bahr’s traveling at the glamping show, so we’re gonna skip it today and hopefully be back tomorrow.

But other than that, we will see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Thank you guys for being here. Appreciate it. 

[00:59:45] Stephanie Bias: Thank you. 

[00:59:46] Brian Searl: Take care. 

[00:59:46] Stephanie Bias: Bye.