Brian Searl
00:00:00.160 – 00:00:58.374
Sa everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chat. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks. Super excited to be here with you for our first episode. And our new intro, by the way, which is, I think maybe. Did you guys like that?
Eleonore Hamm
00:00:58.462 – 00:00:59.574
I did, yes.
Shane Devenish
00:00:59.622 – 00:01:00.134
That was nice.
Greg Emmert
00:01:00.182 – 00:01:02.170
Very nice. Very, very nice.
Brian Searl
00:01:02.510 – 00:01:28.886
Yeah, I like that it’s all pumped up. And now, like, now we have, like, much higher expectations since we have a better intro. So I hope you guys can deliver because I for sure cannot.
But anyway, yes, we’re super excited to be here. This is kind of like our fourth week. Like, we have people who were here last year, Eleonore and Shane.
Phil is going to be a regular guest on the show, too. And Angele was on our glamping episode last year, so. And. And Greg was on. You were on the campground owners episode, right, Greg?
Greg Emmert
00:01:28.998 – 00:01:29.830
Yep. Correct.
Brian Searl
00:01:29.910 – 00:02:25.416
Yep.
So we’ve kind of shuffled things around to give kind of a different perspective here, but I think our intention for the show is RV industry, but also a little bit of outdoor rec and some other things that we might talk about and just kind of having good conversations, but generally around kind of that theme that is on my phone somewhere that I haven’t memorized yet. But by week 22, I should have it fairly down mediocre-wise to where we have. But the idea is to have a topic right every time we’re coming together.
And so I know we, you know, RV industry was probably, like the closest thing we had to a topic when we talked before. But I think. I think we just want to talk a little bit more about outdoor rec and blend some of that stuff in and tie all that together.
So we’ll have some special guests from time to time. Normally we have two. They both backed out on us this week and left us all alone. So we just. We’re going to talk about the.
Well, whatever we want to talk about. We got two people in here from Eleonore and Shane. You want to introduce yourself? It’s 2025. Introduce yourself from the RV industry.
Shane Devenish
00:02:25.488 – 00:02:26.456
Ladies first.
Eleonore Hamm
00:02:26.608 – 00:02:46.340
Okay, thank you. I’m Eleonore Hamm. I’m president of the Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada, RVDA for short. We represent RV dealers in Canada.
And, you know, our goals and strategies, you know, revolve around advocacy, which is an interesting topic these these days, and education and member services.
Brian Searl
00:02:46.880 – 00:02:49.742
Awesome. Thank you for being here, Eleonore, as always. Shane.
Shane Devenish
00:02:49.936 – 00:03:09.362
Yep. My name is Shane Devenish.
I’m with the Canadian Recreational Vehicle Association up here in Burlington, Ontario, and we work closely with Eleonore and her group on. It seems like a lot of advocacy these days as well. So great to be part of it again.
Brian Searl
00:03:09.546 – 00:03:46.710
We’ll talk about that maybe in a little bit. Right. Some of the advocacy work that you guys have been doing, because in Canada, it’s been kind of a mess with whatever Trudeau is doing. Right.
And so that might be an interesting perhaps conversation to have because I know there’s some pending legislation that relates to the industry. Right. That may or may not be impacted. But anyway, we can talk about that. And I want to hear about, like, the shows and how things are going.
If you’ve heard anything from the state’s counterparts, maybe a little bit about how you’re. Like, your show is still a couple months away, right, Shane? Yeah, but, like, any early hints on how that might be going?
But, Greg and Angele, do you want to introduce yourselves briefly?
Greg Emmert
00:03:47.530 – 00:03:49.550
Angele, feel free. Take it.
Angele Miller
00:03:50.010 – 00:04:15.360
All right, so, hi, everyone. My name is Angele Miller and I’m one of the co-founders for Creekside RNR Glamping.
We are a glamping outdoor resort in New Brunswick, and we also focus on a lot of outdoor activities. Nordic Spa, a center for yoga, meditation. And it’s a pleasure for me to join all of you here today.
Brian Searl
00:04:15.740 – 00:04:18.280
Awesome. Thanks for being here. Angele and Greg.
Greg Emmert
00:04:18.940 – 00:04:51.406
Yeah. Last and certainly least, Greg Emmert from Camp Strategy. We are a consulting group here in the States.
I’m the only one on the show Stateside, so that’s. That’s interesting. Please don’t, you know, do not blame me for what happens down here. I am but one person, you know, I have very little control.
And I will say this. Love the new intro. It’s a good thing the camera’s off when that’s on because I’m like, I’m popping and locking in the background.
And I won’t do that on the screen because some people may find it offensive or scary. But I am very happy to be here. Thanks for having me back on. Brian.
Brian Searl
00:04:51.518 – 00:04:54.846
Yeah, it’s good to see that you’re alive from your flat tire incident yesterday.
Greg Emmert
00:04:55.038 – 00:04:56.654
Yeah, that was fun time hit on.
Brian Searl
00:04:56.662 – 00:05:54.982
The side of the road or something. So, yeah, glad to have you here. So I think, like, we’re going to have to find a cadence with each other here. Right.
And so, like, my vision here was there. There are so many. You guys have heard me talk about this on multiple shows before, right?
There are so many things between the RV industry and glamping and campground ownership and consulting that overlap with each other. They all impact everything that we all do. And Shane, you know that better than anybody being the former executive director of CCRV A now. Right.
Like, you know how closely related these things are. Maybe more so in. In Canada because everybody works together and is nice to each other up here.
Not that that doesn’t happen in the United States, but perhaps not as the industries, like, aren’t as close. Would you agree with that, Eleonore? Like that. Just not that they’re. They disagree with each other.
Rvda, US and Arvik, for example, or ovai, whatever their name is now. Sorry, it’ll take me years to get.
Greg Emmert
00:05:55.006 – 00:05:55.734
Used to that too.
Brian Searl
00:05:55.822 – 00:06:00.450
But they’re like. You’re more closely intertwined up here and interlocked, aren’t you?
Eleonore Hamm
00:06:01.630 – 00:06:39.380
Well, I would say, I mean, because we sit on each other’s respective boards or our guests at each other’s boards. You know, I attend Shane’s meetings. I attend CCRVAs. We all attend go RVing. You know, the industry is.
Is obviously smaller than what it is in the United States. And the. The different. The kind of. The four core associations do work very closely together.
You know, I can’t really comment on what’s happening in the U.S. i mean, I know that RBDA and RBIA work. Work well, work closely together. I. I know they have conversations with Ojai, but, you know, I don’t know if.
If they have the same. Like, I really can’t comment on whether they have.
Brian Searl
00:06:39.420 – 00:07:54.760
Yeah, yeah. I’m not saying they have a bad relationship. I’m just saying it’s like, it’s more close because of what you just said. Right. It’s just more.
It’s different up here, I guess. Is the. Not worse or better, just different. So. So I mean, that’s kind of my vision. Right. And I want to see how this kind of plays out.
But, like, obviously, you know, glamping is. Has a big role to play with outdoor rec and consumer behavior.
And we know there’s a lot of crossover between people who try glamping for the first time or maybe, you know, have come from the RV side or want to go to the RV side. We know that there’s lots of, you know, people that Greg deals with from a consulting standpoint.
Again, campgrounds that have clamping, obviously, they’re RV sites. We know that. We don’t need to explain that, but.
So I just think there’s some good conversations that we can have as we flesh that out that will require me to do perhaps some more study on what my actual vision was. That chat GBT came up with seven months ago that I don’t remember, but that’s generally speaking what it is. So where do we want to start?
Like, I think the RV industry is, is in, is important. We talked about some of those things that we can talk about and cover.
Is there anything Greg or Angele on your minds that you’ve seen come across your desk that’s kind of important that you think we should talk about first in glamping or campgrounds?
Angele Miller
00:07:58.300 – 00:10:11.880
You know, if I go on my side just to share a little bit about what I’m kind of seeing now for, for trends and what people are looking for into glamping too is because the industry is, is growing and it’s booming and it’s really like, you know, a lot of people love spending a lot of time outdoor and are looking for those experiences more and more. Like glamping has to offer is they’re also looking for more consistency.
And I’m finding that the expectations are a little bit more elevated than it was about, you know, let’s say four years ago when we got started, you know, when we got started, people were just. Glamping was a new kind of type of beginning industry for us anyway in our region.
And people were just excited to get outdoor and experience, you know, being in your own glamping unit and kind of have the elevated camping experience where, you know, they come and it’s kind of a resort type amenities, but they still can get to barbecue and lay in a hammock and do all of what you get to do when you go camping. But now what I’m finding is people’s expectations on the level of experience is so much more than what it was four years ago. And now they’re asking.
They kind of have a list of requirements that they’re asking when they call. So either it’s like a hot tub or it’s a sauna. Now it’s the sauna.
You know, we have so many calls where people are not just asking for a barbecue, they’re asking for a sauna and, you know, private hot tubs.
So I find that’s really, you know, something important to talk about because it is, you know, something that a lot of people like us glamping owners, we always continuously have to innovate. I keep thinking about how to elevate that experience and, you know, kind of start keeping on meeting these demands from the consumers.
And one of the question we ask ourselves too is when, when does that end, that cap of what you’re going to be offering in a glamping type of experience?
Brian Searl
00:10:13.140 – 00:12:56.732
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting and that’s actually a really good place to start because I think that that lends itself, well, what you just said to a crossover between our two industries. Right. We’ve seen, and I’m sure Greg would agree with me, we’ve seen a trend towards more luxury picky.
I want the best experience type stuff in the RV park space too. And my camera is still flickering. That’s fun. But anyway, it’ll make me look better the less frame rates I’m on camera.
So we’ll figure that out next week in the studio. But like I, I think we’ve, we’ve done some studies with this, with Scott Barr too, who, if you don’t know, does.
The North American Camping report for KOA also helps us produce our two monthly reports that we’re going to put out where I think we’re going to resume them in February. We just took a month off for January for the holidays.
But we’ve done a lot of data research into the fact that, you know, now people are looking for more like best campground near. They’re looking for more experiential type things that actually are difference makers.
And, and part of that is a relation to the economy, we think in that, you know, you’re maybe camping less nights or glamping less nights.
You may be taking, you know, one vacation or two vacation instead of three or four and you have the ability to be a little bit more picky with what you’re choosing and like you want that one vacation if that’s the only one you’re going to take all year to be really special.
So you take longer and maybe the booking window changes and you do more research and you call and ask more questions about hot tubs and saunas and rv, you know, park amenities and things like that. Because you’re like, you should have a right, right to, to have your dollars go to something really exceptional.
And I think that’s what we’ve been counseling our clients on too. And then I’ll shut up because I’ve probably been talking for too long. People are, might tune out.
So I think we’ve been counseling our clients on that too, that it’s just, it’s a different economy and a different market heading into 2025. I’m comfortable that our industry as a whole will be just fine.
But also it’s not going to be a Kevin Costner bill that they will come moment anymore like it was for the glamping industry a couple years ago. And really the same thing with camping over the COVID years. 2021 and 2022. It’s going to be a situation where you really have to prove your worth.
You have to do your marketing, you have to show why you’re different. It’s not enough to have a swimming pool and miniature golf course anymore.
Why like everybody has a swimming pool within, like all the hotels do, all the campgrounds do. You’ve got to have something that sets you apart. It doesn’t have to be a million dollar water park, but it’s got to be something.
Would you agree, Greg?
Greg Emmert
00:12:56.876 – 00:15:04.838
Absolutely. Yeah, man. You know, you’re, you are preaching the same message that I try to get, get our clients on board with.
It’s, it’s about driving your marketing and driving the guest experience from, from your. Why, you know, why do you exist and why is not to make money.
Why is it you need a philosophical and aspirational approach to your business that then you communicate to those guests? That’s the type of thing that creates a connection, a bond between your guest and your place, your guest and your staff, your guest in you.
Because you’re selling your park, you’re selling your experience, but especially as a hands on owner operator man, you’re selling you. I felt like a celebrity in my park when I owned it. And there were plenty of days that I didn’t want that.
I wanted to just crawl under a rock and go dig a hole, fix a water leak or something. But you got to embrace that. You have to dive into that.
Because if you don’t have that uniqueness, just what exactly what you’re discussing, Brian, if you don’t have that, why are they coming? Every park I go to has a, if I went on and I was a koa, so I felt really like I, I really have to figure this out.
Because if people go on a road trip and they’re KOA campers and they stay at, I don’t know, eight or nine KOAs as they make a transit through the States, seeing different things. They, they see yellow shirts, they see cabins, they see the guest maps. They got a pool at every park. Maybe they got a bounce pad at all the parks.
Maybe they got a. So what? What in the world am I going to do? After a while, it’s like the perfume counter, right? You walk past and they keep spraying you.
By the time you get to the end, you’re like, I don’t know what smells like what. It’s all exactly the same. What in the world am I going to do?
So you’ve got to figure out a way to differentiate and as you know, you know, mine, I always go back to conservation type activities because they’re, they’re inexpensive and the natural world is something that really binds us.
Even the people who are afraid of spiders or snakes or whatever they will, they will gravitate towards it if you give them a safe way, a way to feel safe and do it at the same time. So that’s how I did it. Angele sounds like she’s got some really great. I mean, I don’t know of too many, too many places that lean into Nordic spas.
And I mean, that’s fantastic.
Brian Searl
00:15:04.934 – 00:15:08.086
But that’s, that’s how every glamping place is in Canada.
Greg Emmert
00:15:08.238 – 00:15:10.198
Oh, my gosh. I’ve got it. All right. I’m going to.
Brian Searl
00:15:10.254 – 00:15:11.766
We know how to do it right in Canada.
Greg Emmert
00:15:11.918 – 00:15:20.850
Spring is coming. I’m going to migrate northward with the birds. I’m just going to come up and Nordic spout for a while. That sounds wonderful. Yeah.
I need to get on the other side of that border.
Brian Searl
00:15:21.190 – 00:16:14.740
Yeah, but that’s, but that’s. So that’s crossover. Right. And then we move to the RV industry. I think it’s the same way, and you can tell me if I’m wrong.
Eleonore and Shane, but I think it’s the same way when you talk about manufacturers of RVs. I think there’s now more of a. I have, I have a choice. Lots of things are back in stock now.
I have the ability to go to the shows or go to the dealerships and see all the different models and all the different things that are available to me. I’m going to be more picky now. I’m going to demand something that maybe isn’t necessarily better but is better for me, if that makes sense.
And so I’m going to ask questions about the features. I’m going to ask questions about, you know, the mileage. If it’s, you know, model like that.
I’m going to ask questions about the electronics and all that and I’m going to be more picky and maybe take time to make a, a decision. Is that fair? Eleonore, Shane, whoever wants to take that?
Eleonore Hamm
00:16:16.720 – 00:16:58.046
Well, I mean, I think obviously consumers are doing a lot more research than they were before. They have, like you said, they have more options, you know, potentially available than they did during, you know, during the pandemic.
Because dealers do have inventory on their lots. And, you know, it’s, it’s the experience. As, you know, as Angele had said before, people are coming for experience and, and they want to experience.
They’re not just necessarily camping they’re going to experience things, whether it be, you know, outdoors. So there’s, you know, they’re looking at their, their RVs, not just in a camping mode. I’m not just going to take it to the campground to camp.
Brian Searl
00:16:58.118 – 00:17:22.079
Right, yeah. And so you need to have features in that RV that fit your specific lifestyle, whatever that is. And everybody’s different.
So it doesn’t mean one manufacturer is better than the other. It means one manufacturer is better than the other for that specific individual who happens to be purchasing that RV at that moment.
And obviously there’s lots of those individuals who are still purchasing. Right, but. But that’s what I’m. I think we’re agreeing.
Shane Devenish
00:17:22.419 – 00:18:06.978
Yeah.
You know, and to add what Eleonore’s saying, there’s so many sources on the Internet, whether it’s Facebook groups or ownership groups or YouTube videos, and, and people are doing research, but not only about the RV lifestyle, but particular brands, how they, how they get treated, and even to the point of dealerships. And there’s a lot of pressure to make sure that you do things right, because, you know, even if you do, you don’t do something right.
There could be somebody out there who sends a negative comment out and it wasn’t justified, but everybody else, it. So you need to address, you know, all those things.
Brian Searl
00:18:07.114 – 00:18:09.874
Do you want to give us an example of a negative comment or do.
Shane Devenish
00:18:09.882 – 00:18:38.758
You want to just, you know, it could be hypothetically, Brian. Oh, it’s like, okay, these, these guys don’t take it there. You know, I took my unit in there and they didn’t fix my link. You know, things like that.
You know, really basic stuff. But it could be a lot, you know, a lot more in depth, too. But I think getting, getting to Angele. I, I’m. I’m. But is that how I. I pronounce your name?
Angele Miller
00:18:38.814 – 00:18:40.198
Yes. Angele.
Shane Devenish
00:18:40.294 – 00:18:41.494
Angele. Okay.
Brian Searl
00:18:41.622 – 00:18:50.150
So, you know, I’ve ever heard Shane speak French before. I don’t know if it was actually accurate. I actually don’t even know if it was French. It just sounded French.
Shane Devenish
00:18:50.230 – 00:18:52.518
No, that was. That was very highly French.
Brian Searl
00:18:52.614 – 00:18:53.370
Okay.
Shane Devenish
00:18:54.430 – 00:19:33.068
But anyway, it’s not a. It is important to have some features at any business, especially glamping experiences.
To what point and extension, you know, do you need to go saunas if. If your people are demanding them or hot tubs or whatever?
But I think campgrounds especially and glamping experience, it’s give the customer good customer service. And it, you know, it’s basic stuff. And sometimes we don’t. We don’t see that it’s It’s a thank you. It’s treating them well at the introduction. It’s.
Brian Searl
00:19:33.164 – 00:19:53.640
Why do you think that is, Shane? Like, why? I mean, not.
I mean, we’re not talking about the RV industry or obviously there are people within the RV industry who don’t do that well, but same with campgrounds. Same with marketing agencies. Same with glamping. Why do you think it’s so hard for people?
Or is it not hard and they’re just willingly saying in some cases that I don’t want to care about that?
Shane Devenish
00:19:54.420 – 00:20:51.090
I think it’s a. It’s. It’s a. There’s a lot of factors. There’s a lot of pressure. There’s less employees.
I think more people feel that it’s okay to complain more these days.
So, you know, it’s hard for a business owner sometimes not to get down on themselves, you know, to disregard all those negative comments and then the next customer that walks through the door to be positive. But, you know, I think it’s.
It’s more of a societal thing now, and maybe it’s not exemplified to your workers or, you know, out there as much as it used to be. I remember, man, you know, my day with the finance companies, we used to go through customer service seminars at least twice or three times a year.
And I’m just not sure if some of those things are being, you know, funneled out as much as before.
Brian Searl
00:20:51.950 – 00:23:04.126
Lisa, would you hand me my. I’m sorry, I gotta ask Lisa for my phone because there’s a stat that I wanted to pull up related to this.
So we were having a conversation, and here’s what I mean, we were having a conversation. I think it was last week, maybe for anybody who was watching the show. Obviously, I wasn’t paying attention.
I think last week, Casey Cochran was on the show from Camp Spot. Either that it was the week before, and we were talking about.
We had someone on the show who was talking about the amount of cancellations that people had, and it was kind of like a. It was a campground owner. She was one of the special guests, and she was just talking about. And it’s.
The perception, I think, is different as a campground owner or a business owner of the volume of perhaps negativity or cancellations or whatever we’re talking about that exists out there. Because you’re in your own bubble, right? And because psychologically wise. And Harvard did studies on this, right? Especially for negative reviews.
But when you hear something bad, your mood goes down and stays down much longer and then comes back up versus hearing something Good. And then you kind of go right back to your happy medium place. Right. And so I’m wondering, like, I’m not saying you’re wrong at all, Shane.
Obviously consumers are complaining.
Maybe not more today, but they’re definitely more vocal and more visible and have more power because of social media and all the different media channels out there. But I’m trying to find this stat because Casey was kind enough to look it up for me afterwards and apparently I just talked to him too much on Slack.
So I’m trying to scroll up through here, but it was a number. Those are. Okay. Someone said cancellations are 20 and chargebacks were a huge issue. They’re only.
They are only at 11 to 12% for cancellations, which is still high. That’s kind of still like surprises me a little bit if you want to wait on that sec, Greg.
But then chargebacks are less than 1% of those, so chargebacks are not as big of a. And again, I know you’re not in the campground industry, you know, and that’s just to be clear, that’s from Camp Spots data.
That’s not all of the industry, but they have a huge representation of thousands of parks that they could pull that information from.
Greg Emmert
00:23:04.268 – 00:23:07.034
Yeah, like 3, 000 parks now, I think, right at Camp Spot.
Brian Searl
00:23:07.082 – 00:23:08.746
Yeah, like something like that.
Greg Emmert
00:23:08.818 – 00:24:28.966
So that’s. I mean, that’s a pretty good chunk and that. I think you’re right, Brian. That is. That’s just human nature. It.
They’re 11 to 12, but when you talk to people, they’re like, it’s 20, it’s 30, it’s five out of every 10 people. Everybody does it complaining. Everybody’s complaining. It’s just part of who we are as creatures, you know, and that can be hard to get around.
Especially again, going back to those owner operators. When you’re out there and you are in it every day to, to kind of go back to what. What Shane was saying.
Maybe it’s just because you’re so mired down and tired and trying to wear every hat. And I know until I got my park organized, okay, I never got my park organized. I felt like I was wearing all the hats right up until the end.
I’m not gonna lie to anybody. It. When, when something like that came through, it feels very personal and it sometimes is really hard to separate.
But, you know, and seeing stats like that, I bet you could show that to owners all day long and they go, no, no, it’s much higher at my place. But they’ve never actually put sat down with their reviews. Yeah, they’ve never done the data, but. And it’s.
It’s hard because now you’re operating on emotion. And really, in order to get your work done and run a successful business, you somehow got to remove emotion.
But that’s like telling somebody, you know, be less human when you run your.
Brian Searl
00:24:29.038 – 00:25:36.682
Yeah, I don’t think the answer is. Is less emotion, like, because of. For the reasons you just said. It’s amazing how we find weird things to talk about on the show. Right.
Never know what’s going to happen when we start talking. I don’t think it’s an emotion thing. I think it’s. It’s an. There.
There must be a way for you to triage, compartmentalize, departmentalize, whatever the word is after you hear that feedback, whether it is by email or an online review or in person, which are even harder to deal with. But understanding did that customer not even have a legitimate complaint? Although that’s part of it.
But was their perception that their complaint was legitimate doesn’t make them right or wrong. The customer is certainly not always right.
But then if it was legitimate or legitimate through their perception, then how do I either fix it or fix the perception that it was a problem? And then the ones that aren’t falling into that category, I, like, just toss them away. The guy was an asshole or whatever, right?
Greg Emmert
00:25:36.866 – 00:27:29.490
Yeah. Yeah. And you’re. You hit on something that I’ve talked to multiple clients about and just people in my network that are.
That are park owners, that aren’t clients of Camp Strategy and its perspective. Because perception, you. You can’t change. If I see red and you see blue, our rods and cones just aren’t lining up, man. We’re never going to see.
You’re never going to see red where I see it, if you’re always seeing blue. But perhaps the difference is in our perspectives. Maybe you’re looking at it from over there at a different angle, and I’m really close to it.
So we need to find a way to bring those perspectives closer together, and then you have a chance to understand one another’s perceptions. From there, you can build on something. And so that’s incumbent on an owner, operator, manager to try to do with that guest.
And it’s also incumbent on that owner operator to look at that realistically and go, you know what? Maybe they said some hurtful things, but there’s a kernel of truth in here.
I need to find that, separate it out, erase the emotional part and use that kernel of truth to improve my operation, to improve My facilities, whatever it was that, that started that, I can take that and use it, but I can’t allow myself to hold on to the, you know, if they write some awful things about you and your family, which I, I had done, I, yeah, wouldn’t even want to get into it. I still have a list.
I’ve sold my park four years ago and in the back of my mind I can tell you the last name and site number of every, every client that when they went home on a Sunday, I wanted to get out the excavator and dig a giant hole and push all their belongings. They’re, they’re all still in there. You’re laughing because it’s true.
You, like, you, you just, you feel that sometimes, but you put it away, you go on with your business and you try really hard to see if you can get the perspectives closer together. I think that’s the only way you do it. Because perspective informs perception.
Brian Searl
00:27:31.670 – 00:28:27.910
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we look at, and then you look at. So how’s that tie back, Shane, to the RV industry and what you were talking about?
Right, because I mean, let’s have an honest conversation here for a second.
Like, we both know that there are not as many problems with RVs as we’re perhaps led to believe by the volume of people screaming and shouting on social media or by the perception of just dealers, for one example, of the amount of people who come into their dealerships and complain.
But also there are problems with some RV manufacturers, some of whom who are better, some of whom who are worse, some of whom put into place customer service, some of whom don’t. We’re not here to call out people.
Right, but so how do we, or do we care enough, should we care enough to change that perception from a 20,000 foot view of, on the RV industry as a whole.
Shane Devenish
00:28:32.070 – 00:28:38.078
I don’t know how you, you know, what is it? Perception and perspective? What did you say, Greg?
Greg Emmert
00:28:38.254 – 00:28:43.326
Yeah, yeah, I really, the perspective, your, your perspective informs your perception. Yeah.
Shane Devenish
00:28:43.438 – 00:28:59.690
You know, so, you know, I, I, you can argue with somebody, you know, it’s, it’s listening to them out. I think it, it’s just, you know, trying to come to a, an agreement of, of why they feel that way and what could be done.
Brian Searl
00:29:00.750 – 00:30:16.520
But not even to the, not even to the individual. Right. And I’m sorry, I didn’t interrupt you. No, not even to the individual.
Because we’re not going to solve like some people, as we just talked about in campgrounds are just, but that, but they’re not new. Right. Like, it. It feels like they’re new because of social media and blogs and all the places that they can be seen and heard.
But there have always been assholes at camp. Probably the same percentage in the 1940s as there is today. Right. Or whatever decade you want to pick. The. The question I think is. Is as.
Or I guess the question I am trying to ask you, which may be the wrong question, but is, you know, is it something that the RV industry has on their radar to. And maybe it’s not even the RV industry’s job, but is there a way we can provide education around this to help?
Like, obviously the consumers who are going to be vocal are not going to go away, but is there a way to. And it needs to be done in the campground industry too? In the glamping industry too. And I’m not picking on the RV industry. Right.
But you guys are here. Maybe you won’t come back next month, but does that make sense?
Eleonore Hamm
00:30:17.180 – 00:30:21.308
Well, it’s managing consumer expectations, right? That’s a lot of it. Is.
Brian Searl
00:30:21.404 – 00:30:22.044
Is.
Eleonore Hamm
00:30:22.212 – 00:31:17.220
Which we hope that our dealers do when. When they have a new consumer that comes into their dealership. You know, we do know also some of the RVDA’s provincial associations as well.
And I know it happens in the state as well, have, you know, consumer education sessions, whether it be, you know, the lifestyle seminars that the RV Alberta puts on, but, you know, education and training for consumer is huge.
And whether it comes from, you know, at a rally with your manufacturer, at a camp, at a dealership, we just need to make sure as an industry, collectively, that we’re. We’re managing those expectations. We’re letting people know what’s available. I mean, even for Angele, right.
She might be like, no, these sites don’t have saunas, you know, because we’re limited with, you know, I don’t know, space or water or, you know, what have you. But just to manage that so that when people at least are going towards their experience, they know what to expect. Right.
Brian Searl
00:31:17.680 – 00:31:49.780
I mean, I think that’s a big part of it, like what you’re talking about. Right? And I think that’s. I mean, I think that. But I don’t. I guess I. Perhaps that’s too arrogant because I don’t really know the RV industry.
Like, I know the campground industry. I feel like, generally speaking, that’s human psychology.
But what you’re saying resonates with me as a potential consumer of somebody who would buy an rv, right. Is there a better job we should be doing? Is that as an industry as an outdoor hospitality industry that you think, Eleonore.
Eleonore Hamm
00:31:51.240 – 00:31:56.496
Well, you know, again, I’m. My expertise isn’t really in the outdoor hospitality, so just.
Brian Searl
00:31:56.568 – 00:31:58.880
Well, but I think you’re part of outdoor hospitality.
Eleonore Hamm
00:31:59.040 – 00:32:33.548
Well, yeah, in terms of the RVs, for sure. We always think, you know, we, we always recommend our dealers, you know, you know, stay, you know, relevant, you know, with.
With product, with knowledge, with what’s happening, with education and training so that, you know, they at least themselves can then educate the consumer proper.
I, I would hope, again, that campground operators and anybody in the outdoor space is, Is doing the same so that they can, they can then, you know, coach or, or assist their consumers to make their best decisions. I mean, I think that goes for any industry. I don’t think it’s.
Brian Searl
00:32:33.644 – 00:32:59.050
Yeah. I mean, what do you, what do you think the biggest consumer mismatch or perception is with the RV that they’re buying or have?
Like, if you had to pick one. I know that’s hard. Well, and I won’t hold you to it. I’m just asking, like, generally, what do you feel?
Not that’s a right perception, but perhaps it’s just a lack of expectations being set correctly.
Eleonore Hamm
00:32:59.550 – 00:33:20.972
Well, I think sometimes the drivability, you know, is a, Is.
Is people are, you know, you know, we hear sort of what are the obstacles when they decide to come out of the RV industry and, you know, not using it enough, not necessarily using it properly, not having the right. Again, it comes to consumer expectations and training, you may not have the right.
Brian Searl
00:33:20.996 – 00:33:27.760
Toby, nobody’s saying it’s the dealer’s fault necessarily. Right. We’re just trying to see, like, have a conversation.
Shane Devenish
00:33:29.460 – 00:33:43.764
Yeah. You know, RVs are gonna, there’s gonna be times when it, it, it breaks down or something doesn’t work and it happens. No big deal.
But, you know, it’s, It’s.
Brian Searl
00:33:43.812 – 00:33:49.364
Well, it could be a big deal. I mean, what if it breaks down in the middle of a burning man? Well, let me just got there and it’s day.
Shane Devenish
00:33:49.532 – 00:34:06.068
Let me take that, that last part out.
It is a big deal, but, you know, that just, you know, don’t, don’t overly stress about, you know, the fact that maybe, you know, Fritz doesn’t work or whatever your water heater, like, it’s.
Brian Searl
00:34:06.084 – 00:34:14.640
Not always a big deal. You could also break down in the middle of a tropical island with an open bar with 24. 7 happy hour, then it’s maybe not as big of a deal.
Shane Devenish
00:34:14.680 – 00:34:14.784
So.
Brian Searl
00:34:14.792 – 00:34:16.048
I’m with you, Shane. Sorry.
Shane Devenish
00:34:16.224 – 00:34:51.270
No, but, you know, and Eller’s Point it’s expectations and, and how you handle those things when they do break down. Okay, here’s who you call and you know, you can, you can expect X to Y time frame to, you know, to fix it or whatever.
But, you know, I, you know, things, things are, I think there’s, there’s a lot of focus on, on the RV industry to, you know, to maybe build quality units. And I think, I think we’re starting to see that.
Brian Searl
00:34:52.370 – 00:34:57.550
You, you really, you think it’s getting better? I mean, I don’t know how bad it was. To be clear, that’s maybe the wrong.
Shane Devenish
00:34:58.050 – 00:35:27.780
There was, you know, I think, I don’t think it was. There was more instances during COVID I think, but even then, you know, more people, there was more units built.
You know, maybe it was less than, you know, 1 1/2% or whatever, but it, you know, the numbers were a little bit bigger and maybe, you know, the perception is there was more. But I think, you know, everybody’s watching building quality, quality product now.
Brian Searl
00:35:28.360 – 00:35:35.200
All right, let’s talk about shows. Have you guys heard how the shows have been going so far? We just finished the Tampa one. Right. I don’t know if either you went.
Eleonore Hamm
00:35:35.240 – 00:36:17.420
Down to Tampa, but yeah, we were not in Tampa.
I mean, I heard that the dealers were, you know, the numbers I think were a little bit down, but then the weather’s been sort of unique in, in Florida this month, so that likely had an impact. I think from what I, I just read the trade media and, and the dealers there seemed pleased.
We have our first shows in Canada are, are starting tomorrow. So the Calgary RV show starts tomorrow and the Halifax RV show as well.
So we’ll know a little bit more, you know, next week in terms of, you know, what the numbers look like, what type of product is being looked at, who, what the demographics of the consumers are.
Brian Searl
00:36:19.320 – 00:36:30.750
Knowing how dangerous this question is, do you guys, both of you in the RV industry really believe that we’re going to have a year that is up over last year with RV sales?
Shane Devenish
00:36:33.250 – 00:36:50.300
If you had asked both of us probably in December, I, I think we would have probably said yes. But there’s just seems to be some more uncertainty today than I’ve ever seen in a while.
Brian Searl
00:36:51.160 – 00:36:57.340
I think, I think, I agree with that. Like, I don’t think it’s a product issue at all. I think it’s economic.
Shane Devenish
00:36:58.680 – 00:37:03.792
Yeah, and, and, and, and, and the. What is unknown factors, right?
Eleonore Hamm
00:37:03.976 – 00:37:07.980
Yeah. Consumer confidence and, you know, the economy.
Brian Searl
00:37:10.200 – 00:37:31.130
Do you think that. And I said December versus now, which is roughly A month. Right. Is there something that caused you to change that perception?
Is it just more time has passed? Is it the whatever dynamic Mr. Trump is having with Canada that might result in tariffs that might cause people to lose jobs? Is it?
Shane Devenish
00:37:32.150 – 00:37:34.462
Yes, all of that.
Brian Searl
00:37:34.646 – 00:38:22.960
Yeah. I mean, you understand, like, we have obviously a US Audience here and a Canadian audience and some people around the world, too, I’m sure. So that’s.
I’m just trying to provide, I guess, a little bit of clarity on, like, is this a. I think it’s an RV industry. It’s a. It had. The campgrounds are the same way. Right.
Like, it’s not just RVs, but I think it’s a United States and America thing. United States and America. Did I say that? Anyway, United States and America and Canada. There’s three countries now. I just made them. So.
But, like, I think it’s. I think it’s maybe exacerbated perhaps a little bit earlier than otherwise would have shown in Canada.
And you can all disagree with me because of the tariff situation and potentially the fallout from that. Right?
Shane Devenish
00:38:23.740 – 00:38:28.564
Yeah. And. And, you know, also the exchange rate for the retailers.
Brian Searl
00:38:28.612 – 00:38:30.200
It’s a dollar. Yeah.
Shane Devenish
00:38:31.360 – 00:38:56.680
You know, it. When. When it’s fairly stable, people can predict, but it’s.
It’s been so unpredictable over the last 60 to 90 days, and it’s not all that good right now. But let’s hope that things steady out and we. We hear some encouraging words from the south and that we’re all gonna work together. And I think.
Brian Searl
00:38:56.720 – 00:38:58.062
Where did you hear that from?
Shane Devenish
00:38:58.216 – 00:38:59.794
Oh, that’s just me, Brian.
Brian Searl
00:38:59.922 – 00:39:00.466
Oh, okay.
Shane Devenish
00:39:00.498 – 00:39:01.906
I’m just saying you’re in the north.
Brian Searl
00:39:01.978 – 00:39:05.202
You can’t, like, who’s the south person you’re talking to? This is what.
Greg Emmert
00:39:05.226 – 00:39:09.170
I was being encouraging before you came on, Brian. I was very encouraging.
Brian Searl
00:39:09.250 – 00:39:09.842
Maybe that was.
Greg Emmert
00:39:09.866 – 00:39:13.970
Despite having no influence whatsoever. I was just trying to be a nice person. From South.
Brian Searl
00:39:14.010 – 00:39:50.948
No, I mean, I think we’ve seen, like, we saw, like, it was.
I think, generally speaking, politics aside, and how you feel like, it was good to see, like, at least Danielle from Alberta be able to go and have a sit down with Mr. Trump. Right. Whether that was productive. Who knows whether it moved the needle. I don’t know, but at least it was productive.
And then I know Trudeau went down there. That’s a whole different dynamic we won’t get into with what’s happening all there.
But I, like, I heard that they delayed the tariffs, but then I heard, as of yesterday, I think they said that February 1st was probably when they were going to put them into place.
Greg Emmert
00:39:51.134 – 00:39:51.672
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:39:51.736 – 00:40:26.510
And then there’s the whole dynamic of like we’re not going to get into an economy discussion here, but the oil.
And they’ve, he’s declared an emergency to increase oil production in the United States, which obviously impacts how much they may or may not import from Alberta.
So like there is a lot of uncertainty, but I think that regardless of what happens there, I think we’re still dealing with an economy that is going to be rough in 2025 for a lot of people. So let’s assume for a second that maybe we’re only flat to down marginally in the RV industry in 2025. How does that impact the industry?
Shane Devenish
00:40:27.930 – 00:40:34.150
If we, well, I think if we’re flatter down only slightly, I think we’d, I’ll be ecstatic.
Brian Searl
00:40:34.490 – 00:40:46.166
Okay, what are you, what are you realistically then and yeah, and I’m just asking this follow up question because the way you phrased it, right. What do you realistically think it’s going to be in, in Canada? It’s the only expertise you have, I think.
Shane Devenish
00:40:46.298 – 00:41:04.542
Yeah, I, I, you know, I, I, I don’t, I don’t have any forecast right now. I don’t know how Leonard feels but you know, it’s, it’s usually you got some kind of guidance.
I, I personally don’t and everybody I talk to can’t, can’t give me a definitive answer either. I don’t know.
Brian Searl
00:41:04.566 – 00:42:06.520
Well, yeah, I mean, I don’t think anybody knows. Right. And it’s just like in the campground industry we study this for marketing. You know, we do marketing for four or five hundred campgrounds.
And we also don’t know because this is a unique situation that didn’t even happen in 2008. This is a completely different recession, a completely different climate. You know, lots of so many things are different. Right.
But we’re just kind of waiting to see like what is, and we’re going to know pretty quickly here in February and March what’s going to happen? Does the booking window change? What are the number of people that are going to reserve? How has this been impacted?
Obviously, like what does Trump do or not do that may or may not impact the economy in a positive or negative way?
There’s lots of unknowns, but I think generally speaking, regardless of politics, there appears to be a situation where the economy, generally speaking overall in both countries is going to struggle in 2025. Like is there, is there anybody on the show that thinks that it’s going to go like turn around Instantly, in a couple months.
Shane Devenish
00:42:08.100 – 00:42:35.590
You know, I, I can’t, I, you know, I can’t speak for the U. S. Economy, but I, I would tend to think that it probably gonna, you know, maybe improve up here.
You know, we’ve got a pending election that’s, you know, those years are always uncertain.
You know, we’re going through, you know, the leadership issue politically and, you know, all those things are, like I say, you know, add to the, the uncertainty.
Brian Searl
00:42:35.740 – 00:42:46.802
But it’s, but it’s expense too. Right. It’s. Food is up so much and all the costs. And so that’s impacting people’s decision to buy big ticket items, isn’t it? All over.
Washers, dryers, RVs.
Shane Devenish
00:42:46.946 – 00:42:59.330
Yeah. Oh, for sure. But, yeah, people, you know, still, the RV industry has always, you know, got through and people.
Brian Searl
00:42:59.450 – 00:43:00.466
And they will again.
Shane Devenish
00:43:00.618 – 00:43:10.888
Yes. I guess my point is that people need to, no matter how the economy is, people still need to get outdoors and get away from it all.
Brian Searl
00:43:11.024 – 00:43:11.480
Yeah.
Shane Devenish
00:43:11.560 – 00:43:17.496
And that’s where both of our industries come into play. And there’s always going to be a demand for that.
Brian Searl
00:43:17.648 – 00:45:29.150
Yeah. I don’t, I’m sorry. Like, I know that the tone of this has been negative for the last few minutes.
I don’t intend it to be like, again, I think our industry is going to be fine. But I also think, and Greg and I have talked about this, we’ll talk about it more on another episode perhaps, or different format.
But like, I think there’s a danger here from a campground owner side, specifically, because that’s the side I plan. Right. And maybe that exists with RV dealers too.
I think there’s a danger in putting, and I’m not saying anybody’s doing this to be clear, but putting too much positive spin or wording into something that perhaps misleads people who don’t pay attention as much as we do into thinking they’re going to have a better year than they otherwise might. Does that make sense?
Not pointing fingers at anybody, not saying anybody specifically is doing this, not blaming RV industry, campground industry, whatever else. But generally speaking, I think that’s what I’ve seen recently from some different stakeholders. And like, we can, I mean, we can talk about.
We’re on, we’re talking about rv. We’re on a show here. Right. Like, shipments. Shipments doesn’t impact sales. It’s. It does impact the RV industry. It’s important for manufacturers.
It’s a great statistic to have. Right.
Nobody’s knocking it, but I think there’s a danger from a campground on a Perspective that doesn’t understand what that means sometimes, which is not the RV industry’s fault. To be clear.
It’s a campground owner expectation, whatever problem that maybe these, these numbers that are frequently touted that shipments are up, shipments are up means that more buyers are going to buy and that shipments perhaps are up because people are pulling things off the lots. And they are, they’re still buying. We’ve seen anecdotal evidence at the shows. Right. But they’re not buying in the same numbers.
And so I’m just kind of worried here that, that some campground owners and glamping people are going to go into the 2025 with, as we’ve talked about for this whole show, expectations that perhaps don’t match what they should, positive or negative.
Angele Miller
00:45:29.310 – 00:48:05.890
I have something to add to that Brian, that I’d like to share because you know, I think that with that knowledge on, my opinion around that is that there’s certain things that I think will be overall affected more than others in the outdoor hospitality. Like you know, for example, like RV camping experience.
I like, you know, like Shane was saying before, like people are always going to revert to outdoor and want to spend time outdoor.
But I think that where you’re, where a certain type of resorts are, are type of experiences are position is, is where the we’ll see the needle go up or down and how that’s being affected in the market.
So for example, like if I was going to be purchasing an RV that’s maybe a hundred thousand dollar, I think you’ll see that type of manufacturer or product, our industry maybe be way more affected and you’ll see a decline in those type of RV experiences versus like, you know, maybe like a $20,000 type of RV. I think there’s certain things that will strive and servants that want in this type of possible economic situation.
And it’s the same thing in glamping that we’re already seeing the needle being moved. So for example, there are glamping resorts that are, you know, charging, you know, 400 a night, you know, and yes, they do have a nice experience.
But I think when people go out glamping they’ll make a decision do I really need to spend 400 to still have the experience I can get if I go somewhere and spend 200? And I think this is where that the hospitality industry in my opinion as outdoor would stay strong.
But certain things will be stronger than they were and certain things just want, you know, I think it’ll kind of level out depending on the type of product the type of experience, the type of glamping. I still think that people will revert to these type of experiences before going to like resorts or hotels or things like that.
Unless it’s a need, you know, depending on.
On price point, I think people are reverting more to outdoor rv, you know, camping, glamping, but also where the needle will be moved and those ones that will have the hit a lot more will depend on the caliber of price point and experiences that they have to offer in that industry as well.
Brian Searl
00:48:06.750 – 00:48:43.660
So how do we tell that story, Shane and Eleonore is what I’m. Because I know it exists. I know she. What she just said is true. It must be.
And so like we Talked about in 2024, there are people buying a lot of the smaller trailers versus the big ones. We’ve had this conversation on the show before, right?
Not that nobody’s buying big ones, but like, I think there’s been a fundamental shift in some of the manufacturers and the models that people make and things that are selling. How do we tell that story?
Because that’s an interesting story and maybe you’re already telling it and maybe just the campground side that I pay attention to doesn’t hear it as much. But how. Because there are for sure positives, just like she said, right.
Shane Devenish
00:48:47.000 – 00:48:51.760
You know, I think the industry does a good job of telling. Gorevine does a great job, you know.
Brian Searl
00:48:51.800 – 00:48:56.260
And that’s consumer, right? So like, I’m just talking about like for campground owners, I guess.
Shane Devenish
00:48:57.400 – 00:48:59.020
I’m. I’m not sure.
Brian Searl
00:48:59.640 – 00:50:23.400
I mean, I don’t know that there’s an answer I get like, because you’re right. Go RVing does an excellent job, but they are mostly consumer facing. And so that I think is covered. They do again in Canada and the U.S.
i think they both do a great job with their marketing and their reach and bringing you people in and their campaigns that they have and all that stuff. But I’m.
But I mean like the type of rigs that are selling well, the type of manufacturers or the individual manufacturers that are doing really well because they have either a different project product, just like we were talking about coming full circle to experiences, right? Experiences at campgrounds and glamping and all that stuff. Is there a way or should there be a way or is Brian just dumb and should shut up?
That’s maybe all of the above that like we can tell the stories of what is actually really being successful and that is a positive driver for the industry. Because I think not only does that help the RV industry and maybe you’re sharing all this stuff internally.
You probably are, but I think maybe it tells a story to a campground owner of like maybe I’m building or renovating my park or adding glamping or not adding glamping. What do I focus on? Do I focus on smaller sites that are more intimate or you know, what is my consumer going to show up driving?
Shane Devenish
00:50:24.540 – 00:51:34.570
I think it goes back to what Eleonore was saying before about us going to everybody’s meeting and you know, we see each other 10 times a year at least and, and talk a lot more frequently and, and lately we’ve been, you know, telling about, you know, certain units are getting longer and, and what the trends are.
We communicate those things as best we can, you know, to, you know, all the, all the campgrounds associated so they can, you know, move, move that down. I, you know, think things do change. You’re, you’re, you’re right that the trend may be towards a smaller unit.
But you know, it doesn’t mean that a commit campground owner should all of a sudden build smaller sites. You know, you know, they, they, these are trends. They go up and down. They change all the time.
And you know, if you can fit, you can fit a, a smaller unit on a big site, you can’t fit a big unit on a small site.
So you know, I, I think they’re, they’re can, they’re more, I guess listening harder when we say that the length of the units are, are increased, which there is some truth to that.
Eleonore Hamm
00:51:35.430 – 00:52:30.142
Yeah. And I would say working with, you know, the, the different, ourselves internally we have more information.
But working, you know, as a campground operator, at least in Canada, being part of your provincial association, which then in turn gets information from ccrba, which is the national, I mean we share a lot of that data with them. When I look at our RV stats for 2024, we have them to the end of November. The only segment that actually show growth was fifth wheels.
So you know, you’re talking about, you know, units, right. The lar, the fifth wheels. I mean they’re more expensive, they’re longer, they’re bigger, they can go up to 48ft.
So you know, for us to share that with CCRVA and then in turn CCRVA distributing that, you know, through their provincial associations, you know, that’s where I think the campground operators need to look to try to gain some insights and participate in some of the education that’s available to them through, you know, through.
Brian Searl
00:52:30.166 – 00:52:58.240
Their provincial associations, which I agree with completely. Associations are absolutely critical. I think my other question is is maybe a reflection on myself, too.
Is this partly my fault with Modern Campground? Like, could we do a better job of communicating with the RV industry specific to Canada? We’re talking to you guys. Right.
But obviously the US too, to tell more of those stories that campground owners would find useful.
Shane Devenish
00:53:01.300 – 00:53:02.080
Wow.
Brian Searl
00:53:02.660 – 00:53:05.640
Like, I’m basically asking you if I suck and you can say that.
Shane Devenish
00:53:06.340 – 00:53:17.890
Well, no, no. And I. And you’re all. All media is. Is important in this to help with the communication, including, you know, you, Brian, for sure.
Brian Searl
00:53:18.510 – 00:53:56.710
Yeah.
But I mean, we need to, like, can we be more proactive, is what I’m asking, to the Canadian RV industry, to the two people who are sitting here to help better tell stories that are relevant to campground owners.
Because as we’re all on the show together and we all see campgrounds related to glamping is related to RV industry as outdoor hospitality is everything. Right. Is there a larger role that is on us as a media company to provide better value to. Who are we’re talking about in this specific instance?
Campground owners. And if there is, I want to make a habit because it only benefits all of us, right?
Greg Emmert
00:53:57.650 – 00:53:58.026
Yeah.
Eleonore Hamm
00:53:58.058 – 00:54:14.120
Well, I mean, I don’t, you know, I. I’d have to have a look at.
At what you’re currently providing and to see if we can identify any areas where we can supplement that with additional, you know, resources and knowledge that we produce that might be helpful for the campground operators.
Brian Searl
00:54:15.100 – 00:54:53.440
Okay, let’s think about that then. Like, I don’t want to add work to your plate. We both know you do 2 billion things a day, Eleonore, So, like, I’m willing to do the work. Right.
Maybe there’s story ideas or suggestions or things like that, but yeah, I’d love to tell more of those stories because, like, all.
And, Greg, you tell me if I’m wrong, because we’re both in the campground industry side, and I’m obviously an American who immigrated to Canada, but we read Modern Campground, we read Woodalls, and I don’t read RV business because I’m just not as involved in the RV industry. And so I’m sure there’s much more of these stories there.
But from a campground owner side, those are the two basic news resources besides the Facebook groups, right?
Greg Emmert
00:54:53.560 – 00:54:54.340
Yep.
Brian Searl
00:54:54.920 – 00:55:15.226
So I feel like the only news we get from the RV industry is that shipments are up every month. And then the rest of the stories are about campgrounds, which, to be clear, is not the RV industry’s fault.
That’s a coverage issue because there’s very clearly more things going on in the RV industry than the fact that shipments are up or down or whatever they’re doing. Right.
Greg Emmert
00:55:15.298 – 00:55:16.030
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:55:17.490 – 00:55:21.190
So that’s what I’m trying to say, like, I think is on us to change.
Greg Emmert
00:55:23.570 – 00:56:00.196
I think that’s fair. I mean, I think.
I also think you guys and Woodall’s, I think you guys do a great job of covering the industry, putting out relevant data, but, you know, you. So you lead the horse to water. It is sort of incumbent on the owners, on the operators to read that, to pull out what’s good for them to.
To take it on in a way that is beneficial to them, whether it be good news or bad news. There has to be some ownership on the side of the meter. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:56:00.228 – 00:56:08.052
I mean, because of the content. Like, again, I don’t even read my own daily newsletter because I don’t have time. Sorry, Akari.
Greg Emmert
00:56:08.116 – 00:56:09.920
So that’s why it’s so bad.
Brian Searl
00:56:10.300 – 00:56:12.708
But like, but, but is it like, am I right?
Greg Emmert
00:56:12.764 – 00:56:13.780
No, it’s not. It’s not.
Brian Searl
00:56:13.820 – 00:56:25.118
Like, I feel like the only thing we see pushed from a. Not push, because that’s the wrong word covered on a repetitive, regular basis in Woodall’s and Modern campground is RV shipments.
Greg Emmert
00:56:25.214 – 00:56:26.910
When it comes to the industry itself.
Brian Searl
00:56:27.070 – 00:56:31.310
The industry itself? Yeah. Obviously we cover manufacturers and new models and things like that. Right?
Greg Emmert
00:56:31.430 – 00:56:31.918
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:56:32.014 – 00:56:34.810
And news about those people that are one time.
Greg Emmert
00:56:35.350 – 00:56:35.726
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:56:35.758 – 00:57:09.060
So that’s what I think we can do a better job of because, like, again, we sit here and we’re talking about perception, and I’m pointing the finger right back at myself because my perception is, is that the only thing the RV industry pushes is that the good news that shipments are up and there’s so much other good news besides that. Right. Eleonore and Jane.
That, that my perception is, is that we just don’t see it outside of the circles of the RV industry that communicate and talk well together. So I’m pretty sure my perception is wrong. Right.
Shane Devenish
00:57:09.360 – 00:57:15.740
Yeah, I. I would. I would disagree. And I don’t think that’s only thing that we’re. We’re. We’re sending out.
Brian Searl
00:57:15.780 – 00:57:17.484
No, I’m saying I’m wrong. I’m saying.
Shane Devenish
00:57:17.572 – 00:57:38.786
Yeah, you know, I think there’s. There’s, you know, releases on.
On new features and, and neat new models and, and, you know, how the industry is doing as a whole and economic impact and all that. I think. I think there’s more than just a monthly report. That’s.
Brian Searl
00:57:38.818 – 00:58:34.260
I agree with you. I’m just saying that the campground side of the news tends to only, it appears to me, cover the shipments. And so, again, I’m with you.
I 100 agree with everything you just said. I’m asking. And you don’t have to give me an answer right now.
But generally speaking, this is the theme of my question, is how do I help change that narrative so that we’re amplifying more of the positive messages that come out of the RV industry? Because they’re there. Right. Just like Angele said, not everybody’s gonna have a positive story. Right.
And again, we talked about 2025, but in 2025, there are going to be nuggets of amazing manufacturers with amazing stories and great employees and wonderful customer service and improved maintenance and better service wait times and all the things. Right. So many things to talk about from a positive aspect. How do we do a better job of sharing that?
Eleonore Hamm
00:58:34.800 – 00:58:42.620
Well, it just seems that, you know, whoever’s doing the research on your side needs to tap into other. Other sources than just the RBIA shipments.
Greg Emmert
00:58:43.520 – 00:58:44.232
Absolutely.
Brian Searl
00:58:44.296 – 00:58:57.740
I’m blaming myself. We’re on the same page here, right? Like, but that’s what I need. Like, I need.
Because I’m not in the RV industry, I need somebody in the RV industry to tell me how to do it better. What happened to my camera? It’s like, oh, orangey now.
Greg Emmert
00:58:58.440 – 00:59:08.048
Oh, so the Trump thing. Yeah. You didn’t hear about that? So they signed an executive order to make you all look orange just like him every time you get on the camera.
Brian Searl
00:59:08.144 – 00:59:09.060
I’m sorry.
Greg Emmert
00:59:10.520 – 00:59:18.240
Yeah, that’s gonna be terrible. You know what, Brian? Can I steer us a different direction? I ask a question.
Brian Searl
00:59:18.360 – 00:59:18.848
Yes.
Greg Emmert
00:59:18.944 – 01:00:12.190
You don’t care, so I’m curious. So Shane said earlier, you know, if they end up flat or maybe up a little bit, he’d feel like that’s.
That’s an okay thing for this year, given all the. The chaos, the uncertainty right. Between elections and tariffs and. And orange camera feeds. I’m. I’m curious to see, like, Angele, what.
What do you see for glamping for. For, like, flip side of the coin. So if that’s what, you know, Shane is hopeful for on the RV side, what are you hopeful for on.
What are you looking forward to as far as occupancy and. And similar, you know, looking at. You don’t look at RV sales because you don’t have to have an RV to stay at your place.
So maybe are you looking for a big bump up this year? If RV sales are flat, what are you sort of forecasting for this year?
Angele Miller
01:00:12.490 – 01:03:44.912
Yeah, that’s a good question. You know, and it’s kind of one of those things where we, it was almost scary to see what was going to happen this winter.
I know for us like in where we’re located, the province of New Brunswick has over 40 glamping resort that just popped out in the last two years. Competition is on an all time high and the economy is not, you know, showing as strong.
So there’s only so much, you know, potential opportunity, you know, for, for the glamping operators to really like strive in this, in this time, you know, and especially even in the winter season here.
And so for us right now, what we’re seeing like, you know, already happening and because of how we also came about our resort specifically is we came to be an affordable, high end, luxury, glamping experience.
So because we’re, we position ourselves in that segment, we’re still staying strong in terms of bookings, you know, like we were not expecting to be as full as we are. So you know, right now for us, our weekends are full already till end of April and our weekdays are getting full by the day.
It’s more of a last minute thing that it used to be six months before we would be sold out, but now it’s like two weeks before we’re starting to fill out.
But what, what we’re seeing is that there’s a lot of glamping resort we just saw coming for sale and some that are actually decided to close out for the winter. So we’re seeing the impact, but they’re, the category they’re playing in is more in a high end, luxurious, more expensive, you know, caliber.
So I think a lot of people are being conscious financially, you know, with all the costs going up and everything. You know, those ones are being impacted a lot more than we would be impacted. But we’ve definitely been impacted more than usual.
Usually, usually for us we’d be 100 capacity all the time. And now we’re probably at 70, 80% capacity.
So we’ve seen the shift even in where we are positioned, you know, so for us we’re just trying to focus on the experience and the customer service and you know, we’re really pushing that hard to make sure that everybody comes has a good experience experience and even to jump a little bit on that because I know earlier we were getting a conversation, you know, people complain and there’s comments and how do you keep those customers happy? Sometimes you just can’t, you know.
But for us, what’s really like helping us keep that up in terms of even getting to bring a lot of people in and keep the Customer service level up is when people make bookings with us, we’ll ask them question. And a lot of time people, when they go glamping or they go away is because they’re celebrating birthdays, anniversaries, you know, all these things.
So we ask them question and we take notes of everything. So when the guests come back, we, we welcome them and say happy Birthday. And they’re like, oh my God, how did you remember my birthday?
You know, like just little details, but little details that really bring that up for us and keep people coming back and keep us full in the time that we were not at school expecting maybe to be as full as we are, you know, so we’re really like pushing the bar to, to keep that up so that people will keep coming, you know, in these situations.
Greg Emmert
01:03:45.056 – 01:04:23.630
Yeah. So you, you built essentially affordability in to the, the very core of your business, right? You’re, you’re luxury but affordable.
And so I wonder then flipping the coin back to Eleonore, Shane, are you seeing manufacturers doing the same thing where they’re trying to build more affordability into the new units so that it, because of the economic uncertainty to try to drive more sales, whether it be smaller units or the fifth wheels. Do you see them trying to build in affordability at their core like Angele is doing in order to sustain or grow their sales?
Shane Devenish
01:04:27.180 – 01:04:50.440
I think the demand starts with a consumer who goes to the dealer and says, you got more of these? And then the dealer orders those from the manufacturer.
I think it’s, you know, there’s one huge dealer group in the US who are just doing that and they’re, they, they drive a pretty considerable influence on what the manufacturer builds.
Greg Emmert
01:04:52.390 – 01:05:15.890
Okay.
So you’re not necessarily seeing the, the, the builders up there saying, look, we’ve got a, we need to build affordability and we’ve got to make that part of our core mesh message. Let’s, you know, this line is going to be built or build or advertised or marketed as the affordable line that we put out. Nothing really like that.
Or, or is there anyone out there doing that? Just curious.
Eleonore Hamm
01:05:16.560 – 01:06:09.774
No, I mean, you know, in terms of our marketing to consumers, affordability is one of the key messages that we are focused on. It’s been very important and you know, again with gorebeam Canada has been, you know, one of their key strategies for this year.
But when we talk to the manufacturers, it’s exactly what Shane said. It’s the consumer is what dictates what product ends up really in the industry. It’s consumer driven. They’ll go and ask for product.
You know, how units become longer, bigger. I mean, it’s, you know, because consumers are demanding, you know, more slide outs, more, you know, more space, you know, but.
But at the same time, you know, like, you know, towables, lightweight, you know, that was, again, was because consumers were dictating that trend. Affordable units, yes, will be one of them, but definitely not. Not solely what they’re focusing on.
Brian Searl
01:06:09.942 – 01:06:22.398
And it’s so much harder from an RV industry perspective. It must be from an RV industry perspective to focus on affordability where. Versus a glamping resort or campground.
Like, not that it’s easy for a glamping resort or campground. Right.
Greg Emmert
01:06:22.454 – 01:06:24.878
No, but. But considerably easier. Yeah, you’re right.
Brian Searl
01:06:25.014 – 01:06:34.900
Hearts are much more expensive today than they were a few years ago. Right. So, like, even if you wanted to focus on that affordability, where do you do it?
Greg Emmert
01:06:35.680 – 01:07:10.132
Yeah, yeah. It would take a. Not just a rebrand. It’s. It’s. It would take almost like outfitting your entire line to.
To build a new affordable, you know, we’re coming out with a new affordable line or a new affordable model and market it that way. It would be very different than being able to do it, you know, day by day by. By clicking on your rates and. And moving them up or down.
I think it’s also interesting what you said, Brian, that ties back into your work with Scott, that that booking window has shortened considerably. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m sorry I hijacked your show. It’s seven minutes over now.
Brian Searl
01:07:10.316 – 01:07:38.004
No, it’s fine. Like, I mean, again, if somebody needs to drop up, but we’re gonna wrap up here in a second anyway.
So I, I think that, I don’t know, like, just lean into the expensiveness, Eleonore. Just make it more expensive and give them an experience that they want.
Like, for example, Shane greeting everybody inside the RV when they open it for the first time. They already bought it. Right. And Shane is in there with like a custom sign that says, hey, Cheryl, welcome home.
Everybody would pay at least 10 grand more to see Shane, I think.
Greg Emmert
01:07:38.172 – 01:07:39.000
Indeed.
Brian Searl
01:07:40.460 – 01:07:42.660
10 grand. Us to be clear, I’m pretty sure.
Shane Devenish
01:07:42.700 – 01:07:48.084
They’Re gonna way more pay 10,000 more for me not to be there, Brian.
Greg Emmert
01:07:48.212 – 01:07:49.396
Oh, there’s the value prop.
Brian Searl
01:07:49.468 – 01:08:32.089
Not if you had the sign. The sign is what’s gonna make the difference. It’s the experiential custom sign. Yeah, but.
Yeah, I mean, I, I didn’t mean to get into such a perhaps lightly controversial discussion. I wasn’t. Certainly wasn’t trying to insult anybody or things like that.
I just think sometimes we have to have these conversations among the industry and, you know, be forthright and figure out, like, people like me who are sucking and can do better. Right. Like how we can be better and all hold each other accountable. So I appreciate you being willing to answer those questions.
Hopefully you guys will show up next month again. I’ll get, like, emails after this. Be like, I’m sorry, Brian, your show’s terrible. I can’t come back. But thank you guys for being here.
Eleonore, where can they learn more about RBD of Canada?
Eleonore Hamm
01:08:32.469 – 01:08:37.049
They can go to our website, which is www.rvda.ca.
Brian Searl
01:08:37.829 – 01:08:39.613
And Shane Crva.
Shane Devenish
01:08:39.741 – 01:08:44.249
Yep. www.crva.ca.
Brian Searl
01:08:44.549 – 01:08:45.969
Angele, Creekside.
Angele Miller
01:08:46.709 – 01:08:57.230
So you can find us at our website, www.creeksidernr.com or any of the social media site on Facebook and Instagram as well.
Brian Searl
01:08:58.010 – 01:08:59.842
And Greg with Camp Strategy.
Greg Emmert
01:08:59.986 – 01:09:08.194
Yeah, you can find us on LinkedIn. You can email me directly gregcampstrategy.com or find us at our website, campstrategy.com all.
Brian Searl
01:09:08.202 – 01:09:28.166
Right, well, thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. It’s over now and the. The cool intro is coming back. So y’all waited and listened to me for an hour just so you could get to this part.
So don’t leave now. But thank you for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Really appreciate all of you being on the show and dealing with me.
And we’ll see you next week for another episode. Thanks, guys.
Greg Emmert
01:09:28.278 – 01:09:29.318
Thanks, Brian. It was great.
Shane Devenish
01:09:29.374 – 01:09:30.410
See ya everybody.
Brian Searl
00:00:00.160 – 00:00:58.374
Sa everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chat. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks. Super excited to be here with you for our first episode. And our new intro, by the way, which is, I think maybe. Did you guys like that?
Eleonore Hamm
00:00:58.462 – 00:00:59.574
I did, yes.
Shane Devenish
00:00:59.622 – 00:01:00.134
That was nice.
Greg Emmert
00:01:00.182 – 00:01:02.170
Very nice. Very, very nice.
Brian Searl
00:01:02.510 – 00:01:28.886
Yeah, I like that it’s all pumped up. And now, like, now we have, like, much higher expectations since we have a better intro. So I hope you guys can deliver because I for sure cannot.
But anyway, yes, we’re super excited to be here. This is kind of like our fourth week. Like, we have people who were here last year, Eleonore and Shane.
Phil is going to be a regular guest on the show, too. And Angele was on our glamping episode last year, so. And. And Greg was on. You were on the campground owners episode, right, Greg?
Greg Emmert
00:01:28.998 – 00:01:29.830
Yep. Correct.
Brian Searl
00:01:29.910 – 00:02:25.416
Yep.
So we’ve kind of shuffled things around to give kind of a different perspective here, but I think our intention for the show is RV industry, but also a little bit of outdoor rec and some other things that we might talk about and just kind of having good conversations, but generally around kind of that theme that is on my phone somewhere that I haven’t memorized yet. But by week 22, I should have it fairly down mediocre-wise to where we have. But the idea is to have a topic right every time we’re coming together.
And so I know we, you know, RV industry was probably, like the closest thing we had to a topic when we talked before. But I think. I think we just want to talk a little bit more about outdoor rec and blend some of that stuff in and tie all that together.
So we’ll have some special guests from time to time. Normally we have two. They both backed out on us this week and left us all alone. So we just. We’re going to talk about the.
Well, whatever we want to talk about. We got two people in here from Eleonore and Shane. You want to introduce yourself? It’s 2025. Introduce yourself from the RV industry.
Shane Devenish
00:02:25.488 – 00:02:26.456
Ladies first.
Eleonore Hamm
00:02:26.608 – 00:02:46.340
Okay, thank you. I’m Eleonore Hamm. I’m president of the Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association of Canada, RVDA for short. We represent RV dealers in Canada.
And, you know, our goals and strategies, you know, revolve around advocacy, which is an interesting topic these these days, and education and member services.
Brian Searl
00:02:46.880 – 00:02:49.742
Awesome. Thank you for being here, Eleonore, as always. Shane.
Shane Devenish
00:02:49.936 – 00:03:09.362
Yep. My name is Shane Devenish.
I’m with the Canadian Recreational Vehicle Association up here in Burlington, Ontario, and we work closely with Eleonore and her group on. It seems like a lot of advocacy these days as well. So great to be part of it again.
Brian Searl
00:03:09.546 – 00:03:46.710
We’ll talk about that maybe in a little bit. Right. Some of the advocacy work that you guys have been doing, because in Canada, it’s been kind of a mess with whatever Trudeau is doing. Right.
And so that might be an interesting perhaps conversation to have because I know there’s some pending legislation that relates to the industry. Right. That may or may not be impacted. But anyway, we can talk about that. And I want to hear about, like, the shows and how things are going.
If you’ve heard anything from the state’s counterparts, maybe a little bit about how you’re. Like, your show is still a couple months away, right, Shane? Yeah, but, like, any early hints on how that might be going?
But, Greg and Angele, do you want to introduce yourselves briefly?
Greg Emmert
00:03:47.530 – 00:03:49.550
Angele, feel free. Take it.
Angele Miller
00:03:50.010 – 00:04:15.360
All right, so, hi, everyone. My name is Angele Miller and I’m one of the co-founders for Creekside RNR Glamping.
We are a glamping outdoor resort in New Brunswick, and we also focus on a lot of outdoor activities. Nordic Spa, a center for yoga, meditation. And it’s a pleasure for me to join all of you here today.
Brian Searl
00:04:15.740 – 00:04:18.280
Awesome. Thanks for being here. Angele and Greg.
Greg Emmert
00:04:18.940 – 00:04:51.406
Yeah. Last and certainly least, Greg Emmert from Camp Strategy. We are a consulting group here in the States.
I’m the only one on the show Stateside, so that’s. That’s interesting. Please don’t, you know, do not blame me for what happens down here. I am but one person, you know, I have very little control.
And I will say this. Love the new intro. It’s a good thing the camera’s off when that’s on because I’m like, I’m popping and locking in the background.
And I won’t do that on the screen because some people may find it offensive or scary. But I am very happy to be here. Thanks for having me back on. Brian.
Brian Searl
00:04:51.518 – 00:04:54.846
Yeah, it’s good to see that you’re alive from your flat tire incident yesterday.
Greg Emmert
00:04:55.038 – 00:04:56.654
Yeah, that was fun time hit on.
Brian Searl
00:04:56.662 – 00:05:54.982
The side of the road or something. So, yeah, glad to have you here. So I think, like, we’re going to have to find a cadence with each other here. Right.
And so, like, my vision here was there. There are so many. You guys have heard me talk about this on multiple shows before, right?
There are so many things between the RV industry and glamping and campground ownership and consulting that overlap with each other. They all impact everything that we all do. And Shane, you know that better than anybody being the former executive director of CCRV A now. Right.
Like, you know how closely related these things are. Maybe more so in. In Canada because everybody works together and is nice to each other up here.
Not that that doesn’t happen in the United States, but perhaps not as the industries, like, aren’t as close. Would you agree with that, Eleonore? Like that. Just not that they’re. They disagree with each other.
Rvda, US and Arvik, for example, or ovai, whatever their name is now. Sorry, it’ll take me years to get.
Greg Emmert
00:05:55.006 – 00:05:55.734
Used to that too.
Brian Searl
00:05:55.822 – 00:06:00.450
But they’re like. You’re more closely intertwined up here and interlocked, aren’t you?
Eleonore Hamm
00:06:01.630 – 00:06:39.380
Well, I would say, I mean, because we sit on each other’s respective boards or our guests at each other’s boards. You know, I attend Shane’s meetings. I attend CCRVAs. We all attend go RVing. You know, the industry is.
Is obviously smaller than what it is in the United States. And the. The different. The kind of. The four core associations do work very closely together.
You know, I can’t really comment on what’s happening in the U.S. i mean, I know that RBDA and RBIA work. Work well, work closely together. I. I know they have conversations with Ojai, but, you know, I don’t know if.
If they have the same. Like, I really can’t comment on whether they have.
Brian Searl
00:06:39.420 – 00:07:54.760
Yeah, yeah. I’m not saying they have a bad relationship. I’m just saying it’s like, it’s more close because of what you just said. Right. It’s just more.
It’s different up here, I guess. Is the. Not worse or better, just different. So. So I mean, that’s kind of my vision. Right. And I want to see how this kind of plays out.
But, like, obviously, you know, glamping is. Has a big role to play with outdoor rec and consumer behavior.
And we know there’s a lot of crossover between people who try glamping for the first time or maybe, you know, have come from the RV side or want to go to the RV side. We know that there’s lots of, you know, people that Greg deals with from a consulting standpoint.
Again, campgrounds that have clamping, obviously, they’re RV sites. We know that. We don’t need to explain that, but.
So I just think there’s some good conversations that we can have as we flesh that out that will require me to do perhaps some more study on what my actual vision was. That chat GBT came up with seven months ago that I don’t remember, but that’s generally speaking what it is. So where do we want to start?
Like, I think the RV industry is, is in, is important. We talked about some of those things that we can talk about and cover.
Is there anything Greg or Angele on your minds that you’ve seen come across your desk that’s kind of important that you think we should talk about first in glamping or campgrounds?
Angele Miller
00:07:58.300 – 00:10:11.880
You know, if I go on my side just to share a little bit about what I’m kind of seeing now for, for trends and what people are looking for into glamping too is because the industry is, is growing and it’s booming and it’s really like, you know, a lot of people love spending a lot of time outdoor and are looking for those experiences more and more. Like glamping has to offer is they’re also looking for more consistency.
And I’m finding that the expectations are a little bit more elevated than it was about, you know, let’s say four years ago when we got started, you know, when we got started, people were just. Glamping was a new kind of type of beginning industry for us anyway in our region.
And people were just excited to get outdoor and experience, you know, being in your own glamping unit and kind of have the elevated camping experience where, you know, they come and it’s kind of a resort type amenities, but they still can get to barbecue and lay in a hammock and do all of what you get to do when you go camping. But now what I’m finding is people’s expectations on the level of experience is so much more than what it was four years ago. And now they’re asking.
They kind of have a list of requirements that they’re asking when they call. So either it’s like a hot tub or it’s a sauna. Now it’s the sauna.
You know, we have so many calls where people are not just asking for a barbecue, they’re asking for a sauna and, you know, private hot tubs.
So I find that’s really, you know, something important to talk about because it is, you know, something that a lot of people like us glamping owners, we always continuously have to innovate. I keep thinking about how to elevate that experience and, you know, kind of start keeping on meeting these demands from the consumers.
And one of the question we ask ourselves too is when, when does that end, that cap of what you’re going to be offering in a glamping type of experience?
Brian Searl
00:10:13.140 – 00:12:56.732
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting and that’s actually a really good place to start because I think that that lends itself, well, what you just said to a crossover between our two industries. Right. We’ve seen, and I’m sure Greg would agree with me, we’ve seen a trend towards more luxury picky.
I want the best experience type stuff in the RV park space too. And my camera is still flickering. That’s fun. But anyway, it’ll make me look better the less frame rates I’m on camera.
So we’ll figure that out next week in the studio. But like I, I think we’ve, we’ve done some studies with this, with Scott Barr too, who, if you don’t know, does.
The North American Camping report for KOA also helps us produce our two monthly reports that we’re going to put out where I think we’re going to resume them in February. We just took a month off for January for the holidays.
But we’ve done a lot of data research into the fact that, you know, now people are looking for more like best campground near. They’re looking for more experiential type things that actually are difference makers.
And, and part of that is a relation to the economy, we think in that, you know, you’re maybe camping less nights or glamping less nights.
You may be taking, you know, one vacation or two vacation instead of three or four and you have the ability to be a little bit more picky with what you’re choosing and like you want that one vacation if that’s the only one you’re going to take all year to be really special.
So you take longer and maybe the booking window changes and you do more research and you call and ask more questions about hot tubs and saunas and rv, you know, park amenities and things like that. Because you’re like, you should have a right, right to, to have your dollars go to something really exceptional.
And I think that’s what we’ve been counseling our clients on too. And then I’ll shut up because I’ve probably been talking for too long. People are, might tune out.
So I think we’ve been counseling our clients on that too, that it’s just, it’s a different economy and a different market heading into 2025. I’m comfortable that our industry as a whole will be just fine.
But also it’s not going to be a Kevin Costner bill that they will come moment anymore like it was for the glamping industry a couple years ago. And really the same thing with camping over the COVID years. 2021 and 2022. It’s going to be a situation where you really have to prove your worth.
You have to do your marketing, you have to show why you’re different. It’s not enough to have a swimming pool and miniature golf course anymore.
Why like everybody has a swimming pool within, like all the hotels do, all the campgrounds do. You’ve got to have something that sets you apart. It doesn’t have to be a million dollar water park, but it’s got to be something.
Would you agree, Greg?
Greg Emmert
00:12:56.876 – 00:15:04.838
Absolutely. Yeah, man. You know, you’re, you are preaching the same message that I try to get, get our clients on board with.
It’s, it’s about driving your marketing and driving the guest experience from, from your. Why, you know, why do you exist and why is not to make money.
Why is it you need a philosophical and aspirational approach to your business that then you communicate to those guests? That’s the type of thing that creates a connection, a bond between your guest and your place, your guest and your staff, your guest in you.
Because you’re selling your park, you’re selling your experience, but especially as a hands on owner operator man, you’re selling you. I felt like a celebrity in my park when I owned it. And there were plenty of days that I didn’t want that.
I wanted to just crawl under a rock and go dig a hole, fix a water leak or something. But you got to embrace that. You have to dive into that.
Because if you don’t have that uniqueness, just what exactly what you’re discussing, Brian, if you don’t have that, why are they coming? Every park I go to has a, if I went on and I was a koa, so I felt really like I, I really have to figure this out.
Because if people go on a road trip and they’re KOA campers and they stay at, I don’t know, eight or nine KOAs as they make a transit through the States, seeing different things. They, they see yellow shirts, they see cabins, they see the guest maps. They got a pool at every park. Maybe they got a bounce pad at all the parks.
Maybe they got a. So what? What in the world am I going to do? After a while, it’s like the perfume counter, right? You walk past and they keep spraying you.
By the time you get to the end, you’re like, I don’t know what smells like what. It’s all exactly the same. What in the world am I going to do?
So you’ve got to figure out a way to differentiate and as you know, you know, mine, I always go back to conservation type activities because they’re, they’re inexpensive and the natural world is something that really binds us.
Even the people who are afraid of spiders or snakes or whatever they will, they will gravitate towards it if you give them a safe way, a way to feel safe and do it at the same time. So that’s how I did it. Angele sounds like she’s got some really great. I mean, I don’t know of too many, too many places that lean into Nordic spas.
And I mean, that’s fantastic.
Brian Searl
00:15:04.934 – 00:15:08.086
But that’s, that’s how every glamping place is in Canada.
Greg Emmert
00:15:08.238 – 00:15:10.198
Oh, my gosh. I’ve got it. All right. I’m going to.
Brian Searl
00:15:10.254 – 00:15:11.766
We know how to do it right in Canada.
Greg Emmert
00:15:11.918 – 00:15:20.850
Spring is coming. I’m going to migrate northward with the birds. I’m just going to come up and Nordic spout for a while. That sounds wonderful. Yeah.
I need to get on the other side of that border.
Brian Searl
00:15:21.190 – 00:16:14.740
Yeah, but that’s, but that’s. So that’s crossover. Right. And then we move to the RV industry. I think it’s the same way, and you can tell me if I’m wrong.
Eleonore and Shane, but I think it’s the same way when you talk about manufacturers of RVs. I think there’s now more of a. I have, I have a choice. Lots of things are back in stock now.
I have the ability to go to the shows or go to the dealerships and see all the different models and all the different things that are available to me. I’m going to be more picky now. I’m going to demand something that maybe isn’t necessarily better but is better for me, if that makes sense.
And so I’m going to ask questions about the features. I’m going to ask questions about, you know, the mileage. If it’s, you know, model like that.
I’m going to ask questions about the electronics and all that and I’m going to be more picky and maybe take time to make a, a decision. Is that fair? Eleonore, Shane, whoever wants to take that?
Eleonore Hamm
00:16:16.720 – 00:16:58.046
Well, I mean, I think obviously consumers are doing a lot more research than they were before. They have, like you said, they have more options, you know, potentially available than they did during, you know, during the pandemic.
Because dealers do have inventory on their lots. And, you know, it’s, it’s the experience. As, you know, as Angele had said before, people are coming for experience and, and they want to experience.
They’re not just necessarily camping they’re going to experience things, whether it be, you know, outdoors. So there’s, you know, they’re looking at their, their RVs, not just in a camping mode. I’m not just going to take it to the campground to camp.
Brian Searl
00:16:58.118 – 00:17:22.079
Right, yeah. And so you need to have features in that RV that fit your specific lifestyle, whatever that is. And everybody’s different.
So it doesn’t mean one manufacturer is better than the other. It means one manufacturer is better than the other for that specific individual who happens to be purchasing that RV at that moment.
And obviously there’s lots of those individuals who are still purchasing. Right, but. But that’s what I’m. I think we’re agreeing.
Shane Devenish
00:17:22.419 – 00:18:06.978
Yeah.
You know, and to add what Eleonore’s saying, there’s so many sources on the Internet, whether it’s Facebook groups or ownership groups or YouTube videos, and, and people are doing research, but not only about the RV lifestyle, but particular brands, how they, how they get treated, and even to the point of dealerships. And there’s a lot of pressure to make sure that you do things right, because, you know, even if you do, you don’t do something right.
There could be somebody out there who sends a negative comment out and it wasn’t justified, but everybody else, it. So you need to address, you know, all those things.
Brian Searl
00:18:07.114 – 00:18:09.874
Do you want to give us an example of a negative comment or do.
Shane Devenish
00:18:09.882 – 00:18:38.758
You want to just, you know, it could be hypothetically, Brian. Oh, it’s like, okay, these, these guys don’t take it there. You know, I took my unit in there and they didn’t fix my link. You know, things like that.
You know, really basic stuff. But it could be a lot, you know, a lot more in depth, too. But I think getting, getting to Angele. I, I’m. I’m. But is that how I. I pronounce your name?
Angele Miller
00:18:38.814 – 00:18:40.198
Yes. Angele.
Shane Devenish
00:18:40.294 – 00:18:41.494
Angele. Okay.
Brian Searl
00:18:41.622 – 00:18:50.150
So, you know, I’ve ever heard Shane speak French before. I don’t know if it was actually accurate. I actually don’t even know if it was French. It just sounded French.
Shane Devenish
00:18:50.230 – 00:18:52.518
No, that was. That was very highly French.
Brian Searl
00:18:52.614 – 00:18:53.370
Okay.
Shane Devenish
00:18:54.430 – 00:19:33.068
But anyway, it’s not a. It is important to have some features at any business, especially glamping experiences.
To what point and extension, you know, do you need to go saunas if. If your people are demanding them or hot tubs or whatever?
But I think campgrounds especially and glamping experience, it’s give the customer good customer service. And it, you know, it’s basic stuff. And sometimes we don’t. We don’t see that it’s It’s a thank you. It’s treating them well at the introduction. It’s.
Brian Searl
00:19:33.164 – 00:19:53.640
Why do you think that is, Shane? Like, why? I mean, not.
I mean, we’re not talking about the RV industry or obviously there are people within the RV industry who don’t do that well, but same with campgrounds. Same with marketing agencies. Same with glamping. Why do you think it’s so hard for people?
Or is it not hard and they’re just willingly saying in some cases that I don’t want to care about that?
Shane Devenish
00:19:54.420 – 00:20:51.090
I think it’s a. It’s. It’s a. There’s a lot of factors. There’s a lot of pressure. There’s less employees.
I think more people feel that it’s okay to complain more these days.
So, you know, it’s hard for a business owner sometimes not to get down on themselves, you know, to disregard all those negative comments and then the next customer that walks through the door to be positive. But, you know, I think it’s.
It’s more of a societal thing now, and maybe it’s not exemplified to your workers or, you know, out there as much as it used to be. I remember, man, you know, my day with the finance companies, we used to go through customer service seminars at least twice or three times a year.
And I’m just not sure if some of those things are being, you know, funneled out as much as before.
Brian Searl
00:20:51.950 – 00:23:04.126
Lisa, would you hand me my. I’m sorry, I gotta ask Lisa for my phone because there’s a stat that I wanted to pull up related to this.
So we were having a conversation, and here’s what I mean, we were having a conversation. I think it was last week, maybe for anybody who was watching the show. Obviously, I wasn’t paying attention.
I think last week, Casey Cochran was on the show from Camp Spot. Either that it was the week before, and we were talking about.
We had someone on the show who was talking about the amount of cancellations that people had, and it was kind of like a. It was a campground owner. She was one of the special guests, and she was just talking about. And it’s.
The perception, I think, is different as a campground owner or a business owner of the volume of perhaps negativity or cancellations or whatever we’re talking about that exists out there. Because you’re in your own bubble, right? And because psychologically wise. And Harvard did studies on this, right? Especially for negative reviews.
But when you hear something bad, your mood goes down and stays down much longer and then comes back up versus hearing something Good. And then you kind of go right back to your happy medium place. Right. And so I’m wondering, like, I’m not saying you’re wrong at all, Shane.
Obviously consumers are complaining.
Maybe not more today, but they’re definitely more vocal and more visible and have more power because of social media and all the different media channels out there. But I’m trying to find this stat because Casey was kind enough to look it up for me afterwards and apparently I just talked to him too much on Slack.
So I’m trying to scroll up through here, but it was a number. Those are. Okay. Someone said cancellations are 20 and chargebacks were a huge issue. They’re only.
They are only at 11 to 12% for cancellations, which is still high. That’s kind of still like surprises me a little bit if you want to wait on that sec, Greg.
But then chargebacks are less than 1% of those, so chargebacks are not as big of a. And again, I know you’re not in the campground industry, you know, and that’s just to be clear, that’s from Camp Spots data.
That’s not all of the industry, but they have a huge representation of thousands of parks that they could pull that information from.
Greg Emmert
00:23:04.268 – 00:23:07.034
Yeah, like 3, 000 parks now, I think, right at Camp Spot.
Brian Searl
00:23:07.082 – 00:23:08.746
Yeah, like something like that.
Greg Emmert
00:23:08.818 – 00:24:28.966
So that’s. I mean, that’s a pretty good chunk and that. I think you’re right, Brian. That is. That’s just human nature. It.
They’re 11 to 12, but when you talk to people, they’re like, it’s 20, it’s 30, it’s five out of every 10 people. Everybody does it complaining. Everybody’s complaining. It’s just part of who we are as creatures, you know, and that can be hard to get around.
Especially again, going back to those owner operators. When you’re out there and you are in it every day to, to kind of go back to what. What Shane was saying.
Maybe it’s just because you’re so mired down and tired and trying to wear every hat. And I know until I got my park organized, okay, I never got my park organized. I felt like I was wearing all the hats right up until the end.
I’m not gonna lie to anybody. It. When, when something like that came through, it feels very personal and it sometimes is really hard to separate.
But, you know, and seeing stats like that, I bet you could show that to owners all day long and they go, no, no, it’s much higher at my place. But they’ve never actually put sat down with their reviews. Yeah, they’ve never done the data, but. And it’s.
It’s hard because now you’re operating on emotion. And really, in order to get your work done and run a successful business, you somehow got to remove emotion.
But that’s like telling somebody, you know, be less human when you run your.
Brian Searl
00:24:29.038 – 00:25:36.682
Yeah, I don’t think the answer is. Is less emotion, like, because of. For the reasons you just said. It’s amazing how we find weird things to talk about on the show. Right.
Never know what’s going to happen when we start talking. I don’t think it’s an emotion thing. I think it’s. It’s an. There.
There must be a way for you to triage, compartmentalize, departmentalize, whatever the word is after you hear that feedback, whether it is by email or an online review or in person, which are even harder to deal with. But understanding did that customer not even have a legitimate complaint? Although that’s part of it.
But was their perception that their complaint was legitimate doesn’t make them right or wrong. The customer is certainly not always right.
But then if it was legitimate or legitimate through their perception, then how do I either fix it or fix the perception that it was a problem? And then the ones that aren’t falling into that category, I, like, just toss them away. The guy was an asshole or whatever, right?
Greg Emmert
00:25:36.866 – 00:27:29.490
Yeah. Yeah. And you’re. You hit on something that I’ve talked to multiple clients about and just people in my network that are.
That are park owners, that aren’t clients of Camp Strategy and its perspective. Because perception, you. You can’t change. If I see red and you see blue, our rods and cones just aren’t lining up, man. We’re never going to see.
You’re never going to see red where I see it, if you’re always seeing blue. But perhaps the difference is in our perspectives. Maybe you’re looking at it from over there at a different angle, and I’m really close to it.
So we need to find a way to bring those perspectives closer together, and then you have a chance to understand one another’s perceptions. From there, you can build on something. And so that’s incumbent on an owner, operator, manager to try to do with that guest.
And it’s also incumbent on that owner operator to look at that realistically and go, you know what? Maybe they said some hurtful things, but there’s a kernel of truth in here.
I need to find that, separate it out, erase the emotional part and use that kernel of truth to improve my operation, to improve My facilities, whatever it was that, that started that, I can take that and use it, but I can’t allow myself to hold on to the, you know, if they write some awful things about you and your family, which I, I had done, I, yeah, wouldn’t even want to get into it. I still have a list.
I’ve sold my park four years ago and in the back of my mind I can tell you the last name and site number of every, every client that when they went home on a Sunday, I wanted to get out the excavator and dig a giant hole and push all their belongings. They’re, they’re all still in there. You’re laughing because it’s true.
You, like, you, you just, you feel that sometimes, but you put it away, you go on with your business and you try really hard to see if you can get the perspectives closer together. I think that’s the only way you do it. Because perspective informs perception.
Brian Searl
00:27:31.670 – 00:28:27.910
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we look at, and then you look at. So how’s that tie back, Shane, to the RV industry and what you were talking about?
Right, because I mean, let’s have an honest conversation here for a second.
Like, we both know that there are not as many problems with RVs as we’re perhaps led to believe by the volume of people screaming and shouting on social media or by the perception of just dealers, for one example, of the amount of people who come into their dealerships and complain.
But also there are problems with some RV manufacturers, some of whom who are better, some of whom who are worse, some of whom put into place customer service, some of whom don’t. We’re not here to call out people.
Right, but so how do we, or do we care enough, should we care enough to change that perception from a 20,000 foot view of, on the RV industry as a whole.
Shane Devenish
00:28:32.070 – 00:28:38.078
I don’t know how you, you know, what is it? Perception and perspective? What did you say, Greg?
Greg Emmert
00:28:38.254 – 00:28:43.326
Yeah, yeah, I really, the perspective, your, your perspective informs your perception. Yeah.
Shane Devenish
00:28:43.438 – 00:28:59.690
You know, so, you know, I, I, you can argue with somebody, you know, it’s, it’s listening to them out. I think it, it’s just, you know, trying to come to a, an agreement of, of why they feel that way and what could be done.
Brian Searl
00:29:00.750 – 00:30:16.520
But not even to the, not even to the individual. Right. And I’m sorry, I didn’t interrupt you. No, not even to the individual.
Because we’re not going to solve like some people, as we just talked about in campgrounds are just, but that, but they’re not new. Right. Like, it. It feels like they’re new because of social media and blogs and all the places that they can be seen and heard.
But there have always been assholes at camp. Probably the same percentage in the 1940s as there is today. Right. Or whatever decade you want to pick. The. The question I think is. Is as.
Or I guess the question I am trying to ask you, which may be the wrong question, but is, you know, is it something that the RV industry has on their radar to. And maybe it’s not even the RV industry’s job, but is there a way we can provide education around this to help?
Like, obviously the consumers who are going to be vocal are not going to go away, but is there a way to. And it needs to be done in the campground industry too? In the glamping industry too. And I’m not picking on the RV industry. Right.
But you guys are here. Maybe you won’t come back next month, but does that make sense?
Eleonore Hamm
00:30:17.180 – 00:30:21.308
Well, it’s managing consumer expectations, right? That’s a lot of it. Is.
Brian Searl
00:30:21.404 – 00:30:22.044
Is.
Eleonore Hamm
00:30:22.212 – 00:31:17.220
Which we hope that our dealers do when. When they have a new consumer that comes into their dealership. You know, we do know also some of the RVDA’s provincial associations as well.
And I know it happens in the state as well, have, you know, consumer education sessions, whether it be, you know, the lifestyle seminars that the RV Alberta puts on, but, you know, education and training for consumer is huge.
And whether it comes from, you know, at a rally with your manufacturer, at a camp, at a dealership, we just need to make sure as an industry, collectively, that we’re. We’re managing those expectations. We’re letting people know what’s available. I mean, even for Angele, right.
She might be like, no, these sites don’t have saunas, you know, because we’re limited with, you know, I don’t know, space or water or, you know, what have you. But just to manage that so that when people at least are going towards their experience, they know what to expect. Right.
Brian Searl
00:31:17.680 – 00:31:49.780
I mean, I think that’s a big part of it, like what you’re talking about. Right? And I think that’s. I mean, I think that. But I don’t. I guess I. Perhaps that’s too arrogant because I don’t really know the RV industry.
Like, I know the campground industry. I feel like, generally speaking, that’s human psychology.
But what you’re saying resonates with me as a potential consumer of somebody who would buy an rv, right. Is there a better job we should be doing? Is that as an industry as an outdoor hospitality industry that you think, Eleonore.
Eleonore Hamm
00:31:51.240 – 00:31:56.496
Well, you know, again, I’m. My expertise isn’t really in the outdoor hospitality, so just.
Brian Searl
00:31:56.568 – 00:31:58.880
Well, but I think you’re part of outdoor hospitality.
Eleonore Hamm
00:31:59.040 – 00:32:33.548
Well, yeah, in terms of the RVs, for sure. We always think, you know, we, we always recommend our dealers, you know, you know, stay, you know, relevant, you know, with.
With product, with knowledge, with what’s happening, with education and training so that, you know, they at least themselves can then educate the consumer proper.
I, I would hope, again, that campground operators and anybody in the outdoor space is, Is doing the same so that they can, they can then, you know, coach or, or assist their consumers to make their best decisions. I mean, I think that goes for any industry. I don’t think it’s.
Brian Searl
00:32:33.644 – 00:32:59.050
Yeah. I mean, what do you, what do you think the biggest consumer mismatch or perception is with the RV that they’re buying or have?
Like, if you had to pick one. I know that’s hard. Well, and I won’t hold you to it. I’m just asking, like, generally, what do you feel?
Not that’s a right perception, but perhaps it’s just a lack of expectations being set correctly.
Eleonore Hamm
00:32:59.550 – 00:33:20.972
Well, I think sometimes the drivability, you know, is a, Is.
Is people are, you know, you know, we hear sort of what are the obstacles when they decide to come out of the RV industry and, you know, not using it enough, not necessarily using it properly, not having the right. Again, it comes to consumer expectations and training, you may not have the right.
Brian Searl
00:33:20.996 – 00:33:27.760
Toby, nobody’s saying it’s the dealer’s fault necessarily. Right. We’re just trying to see, like, have a conversation.
Shane Devenish
00:33:29.460 – 00:33:43.764
Yeah. You know, RVs are gonna, there’s gonna be times when it, it, it breaks down or something doesn’t work and it happens. No big deal.
But, you know, it’s, It’s.
Brian Searl
00:33:43.812 – 00:33:49.364
Well, it could be a big deal. I mean, what if it breaks down in the middle of a burning man? Well, let me just got there and it’s day.
Shane Devenish
00:33:49.532 – 00:34:06.068
Let me take that, that last part out.
It is a big deal, but, you know, that just, you know, don’t, don’t overly stress about, you know, the fact that maybe, you know, Fritz doesn’t work or whatever your water heater, like, it’s.
Brian Searl
00:34:06.084 – 00:34:14.640
Not always a big deal. You could also break down in the middle of a tropical island with an open bar with 24. 7 happy hour, then it’s maybe not as big of a deal.
Shane Devenish
00:34:14.680 – 00:34:14.784
So.
Brian Searl
00:34:14.792 – 00:34:16.048
I’m with you, Shane. Sorry.
Shane Devenish
00:34:16.224 – 00:34:51.270
No, but, you know, and Eller’s Point it’s expectations and, and how you handle those things when they do break down. Okay, here’s who you call and you know, you can, you can expect X to Y time frame to, you know, to fix it or whatever.
But, you know, I, you know, things, things are, I think there’s, there’s a lot of focus on, on the RV industry to, you know, to maybe build quality units. And I think, I think we’re starting to see that.
Brian Searl
00:34:52.370 – 00:34:57.550
You, you really, you think it’s getting better? I mean, I don’t know how bad it was. To be clear, that’s maybe the wrong.
Shane Devenish
00:34:58.050 – 00:35:27.780
There was, you know, I think, I don’t think it was. There was more instances during COVID I think, but even then, you know, more people, there was more units built.
You know, maybe it was less than, you know, 1 1/2% or whatever, but it, you know, the numbers were a little bit bigger and maybe, you know, the perception is there was more. But I think, you know, everybody’s watching building quality, quality product now.
Brian Searl
00:35:28.360 – 00:35:35.200
All right, let’s talk about shows. Have you guys heard how the shows have been going so far? We just finished the Tampa one. Right. I don’t know if either you went.
Eleonore Hamm
00:35:35.240 – 00:36:17.420
Down to Tampa, but yeah, we were not in Tampa.
I mean, I heard that the dealers were, you know, the numbers I think were a little bit down, but then the weather’s been sort of unique in, in Florida this month, so that likely had an impact. I think from what I, I just read the trade media and, and the dealers there seemed pleased.
We have our first shows in Canada are, are starting tomorrow. So the Calgary RV show starts tomorrow and the Halifax RV show as well.
So we’ll know a little bit more, you know, next week in terms of, you know, what the numbers look like, what type of product is being looked at, who, what the demographics of the consumers are.
Brian Searl
00:36:19.320 – 00:36:30.750
Knowing how dangerous this question is, do you guys, both of you in the RV industry really believe that we’re going to have a year that is up over last year with RV sales?
Shane Devenish
00:36:33.250 – 00:36:50.300
If you had asked both of us probably in December, I, I think we would have probably said yes. But there’s just seems to be some more uncertainty today than I’ve ever seen in a while.
Brian Searl
00:36:51.160 – 00:36:57.340
I think, I think, I agree with that. Like, I don’t think it’s a product issue at all. I think it’s economic.
Shane Devenish
00:36:58.680 – 00:37:03.792
Yeah, and, and, and, and, and the. What is unknown factors, right?
Eleonore Hamm
00:37:03.976 – 00:37:07.980
Yeah. Consumer confidence and, you know, the economy.
Brian Searl
00:37:10.200 – 00:37:31.130
Do you think that. And I said December versus now, which is roughly A month. Right. Is there something that caused you to change that perception?
Is it just more time has passed? Is it the whatever dynamic Mr. Trump is having with Canada that might result in tariffs that might cause people to lose jobs? Is it?
Shane Devenish
00:37:32.150 – 00:37:34.462
Yes, all of that.
Brian Searl
00:37:34.646 – 00:38:22.960
Yeah. I mean, you understand, like, we have obviously a US Audience here and a Canadian audience and some people around the world, too, I’m sure. So that’s.
I’m just trying to provide, I guess, a little bit of clarity on, like, is this a. I think it’s an RV industry. It’s a. It had. The campgrounds are the same way. Right.
Like, it’s not just RVs, but I think it’s a United States and America thing. United States and America. Did I say that? Anyway, United States and America and Canada. There’s three countries now. I just made them. So.
But, like, I think it’s. I think it’s maybe exacerbated perhaps a little bit earlier than otherwise would have shown in Canada.
And you can all disagree with me because of the tariff situation and potentially the fallout from that. Right?
Shane Devenish
00:38:23.740 – 00:38:28.564
Yeah. And. And, you know, also the exchange rate for the retailers.
Brian Searl
00:38:28.612 – 00:38:30.200
It’s a dollar. Yeah.
Shane Devenish
00:38:31.360 – 00:38:56.680
You know, it. When. When it’s fairly stable, people can predict, but it’s.
It’s been so unpredictable over the last 60 to 90 days, and it’s not all that good right now. But let’s hope that things steady out and we. We hear some encouraging words from the south and that we’re all gonna work together. And I think.
Brian Searl
00:38:56.720 – 00:38:58.062
Where did you hear that from?
Shane Devenish
00:38:58.216 – 00:38:59.794
Oh, that’s just me, Brian.
Brian Searl
00:38:59.922 – 00:39:00.466
Oh, okay.
Shane Devenish
00:39:00.498 – 00:39:01.906
I’m just saying you’re in the north.
Brian Searl
00:39:01.978 – 00:39:05.202
You can’t, like, who’s the south person you’re talking to? This is what.
Greg Emmert
00:39:05.226 – 00:39:09.170
I was being encouraging before you came on, Brian. I was very encouraging.
Brian Searl
00:39:09.250 – 00:39:09.842
Maybe that was.
Greg Emmert
00:39:09.866 – 00:39:13.970
Despite having no influence whatsoever. I was just trying to be a nice person. From South.
Brian Searl
00:39:14.010 – 00:39:50.948
No, I mean, I think we’ve seen, like, we saw, like, it was.
I think, generally speaking, politics aside, and how you feel like, it was good to see, like, at least Danielle from Alberta be able to go and have a sit down with Mr. Trump. Right. Whether that was productive. Who knows whether it moved the needle. I don’t know, but at least it was productive.
And then I know Trudeau went down there. That’s a whole different dynamic we won’t get into with what’s happening all there.
But I, like, I heard that they delayed the tariffs, but then I heard, as of yesterday, I think they said that February 1st was probably when they were going to put them into place.
Greg Emmert
00:39:51.134 – 00:39:51.672
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:39:51.736 – 00:40:26.510
And then there’s the whole dynamic of like we’re not going to get into an economy discussion here, but the oil.
And they’ve, he’s declared an emergency to increase oil production in the United States, which obviously impacts how much they may or may not import from Alberta.
So like there is a lot of uncertainty, but I think that regardless of what happens there, I think we’re still dealing with an economy that is going to be rough in 2025 for a lot of people. So let’s assume for a second that maybe we’re only flat to down marginally in the RV industry in 2025. How does that impact the industry?
Shane Devenish
00:40:27.930 – 00:40:34.150
If we, well, I think if we’re flatter down only slightly, I think we’d, I’ll be ecstatic.
Brian Searl
00:40:34.490 – 00:40:46.166
Okay, what are you, what are you realistically then and yeah, and I’m just asking this follow up question because the way you phrased it, right. What do you realistically think it’s going to be in, in Canada? It’s the only expertise you have, I think.
Shane Devenish
00:40:46.298 – 00:41:04.542
Yeah, I, I, you know, I, I, I don’t, I don’t have any forecast right now. I don’t know how Leonard feels but you know, it’s, it’s usually you got some kind of guidance.
I, I personally don’t and everybody I talk to can’t, can’t give me a definitive answer either. I don’t know.
Brian Searl
00:41:04.566 – 00:42:06.520
Well, yeah, I mean, I don’t think anybody knows. Right. And it’s just like in the campground industry we study this for marketing. You know, we do marketing for four or five hundred campgrounds.
And we also don’t know because this is a unique situation that didn’t even happen in 2008. This is a completely different recession, a completely different climate. You know, lots of so many things are different. Right.
But we’re just kind of waiting to see like what is, and we’re going to know pretty quickly here in February and March what’s going to happen? Does the booking window change? What are the number of people that are going to reserve? How has this been impacted?
Obviously, like what does Trump do or not do that may or may not impact the economy in a positive or negative way?
There’s lots of unknowns, but I think generally speaking, regardless of politics, there appears to be a situation where the economy, generally speaking overall in both countries is going to struggle in 2025. Like is there, is there anybody on the show that thinks that it’s going to go like turn around Instantly, in a couple months.
Shane Devenish
00:42:08.100 – 00:42:35.590
You know, I, I can’t, I, you know, I can’t speak for the U. S. Economy, but I, I would tend to think that it probably gonna, you know, maybe improve up here.
You know, we’ve got a pending election that’s, you know, those years are always uncertain.
You know, we’re going through, you know, the leadership issue politically and, you know, all those things are, like I say, you know, add to the, the uncertainty.
Brian Searl
00:42:35.740 – 00:42:46.802
But it’s, but it’s expense too. Right. It’s. Food is up so much and all the costs. And so that’s impacting people’s decision to buy big ticket items, isn’t it? All over.
Washers, dryers, RVs.
Shane Devenish
00:42:46.946 – 00:42:59.330
Yeah. Oh, for sure. But, yeah, people, you know, still, the RV industry has always, you know, got through and people.
Brian Searl
00:42:59.450 – 00:43:00.466
And they will again.
Shane Devenish
00:43:00.618 – 00:43:10.888
Yes. I guess my point is that people need to, no matter how the economy is, people still need to get outdoors and get away from it all.
Brian Searl
00:43:11.024 – 00:43:11.480
Yeah.
Shane Devenish
00:43:11.560 – 00:43:17.496
And that’s where both of our industries come into play. And there’s always going to be a demand for that.
Brian Searl
00:43:17.648 – 00:45:29.150
Yeah. I don’t, I’m sorry. Like, I know that the tone of this has been negative for the last few minutes.
I don’t intend it to be like, again, I think our industry is going to be fine. But I also think, and Greg and I have talked about this, we’ll talk about it more on another episode perhaps, or different format.
But like, I think there’s a danger here from a campground owner side, specifically, because that’s the side I plan. Right. And maybe that exists with RV dealers too.
I think there’s a danger in putting, and I’m not saying anybody’s doing this to be clear, but putting too much positive spin or wording into something that perhaps misleads people who don’t pay attention as much as we do into thinking they’re going to have a better year than they otherwise might. Does that make sense?
Not pointing fingers at anybody, not saying anybody specifically is doing this, not blaming RV industry, campground industry, whatever else. But generally speaking, I think that’s what I’ve seen recently from some different stakeholders. And like, we can, I mean, we can talk about.
We’re on, we’re talking about rv. We’re on a show here. Right. Like, shipments. Shipments doesn’t impact sales. It’s. It does impact the RV industry. It’s important for manufacturers.
It’s a great statistic to have. Right.
Nobody’s knocking it, but I think there’s a danger from a campground on a Perspective that doesn’t understand what that means sometimes, which is not the RV industry’s fault. To be clear.
It’s a campground owner expectation, whatever problem that maybe these, these numbers that are frequently touted that shipments are up, shipments are up means that more buyers are going to buy and that shipments perhaps are up because people are pulling things off the lots. And they are, they’re still buying. We’ve seen anecdotal evidence at the shows. Right. But they’re not buying in the same numbers.
And so I’m just kind of worried here that, that some campground owners and glamping people are going to go into the 2025 with, as we’ve talked about for this whole show, expectations that perhaps don’t match what they should, positive or negative.
Angele Miller
00:45:29.310 – 00:48:05.890
I have something to add to that Brian, that I’d like to share because you know, I think that with that knowledge on, my opinion around that is that there’s certain things that I think will be overall affected more than others in the outdoor hospitality. Like you know, for example, like RV camping experience.
I like, you know, like Shane was saying before, like people are always going to revert to outdoor and want to spend time outdoor.
But I think that where you’re, where a certain type of resorts are, are type of experiences are position is, is where the we’ll see the needle go up or down and how that’s being affected in the market.
So for example, like if I was going to be purchasing an RV that’s maybe a hundred thousand dollar, I think you’ll see that type of manufacturer or product, our industry maybe be way more affected and you’ll see a decline in those type of RV experiences versus like, you know, maybe like a $20,000 type of RV. I think there’s certain things that will strive and servants that want in this type of possible economic situation.
And it’s the same thing in glamping that we’re already seeing the needle being moved. So for example, there are glamping resorts that are, you know, charging, you know, 400 a night, you know, and yes, they do have a nice experience.
But I think when people go out glamping they’ll make a decision do I really need to spend 400 to still have the experience I can get if I go somewhere and spend 200? And I think this is where that the hospitality industry in my opinion as outdoor would stay strong.
But certain things will be stronger than they were and certain things just want, you know, I think it’ll kind of level out depending on the type of product the type of experience, the type of glamping. I still think that people will revert to these type of experiences before going to like resorts or hotels or things like that.
Unless it’s a need, you know, depending on.
On price point, I think people are reverting more to outdoor rv, you know, camping, glamping, but also where the needle will be moved and those ones that will have the hit a lot more will depend on the caliber of price point and experiences that they have to offer in that industry as well.
Brian Searl
00:48:06.750 – 00:48:43.660
So how do we tell that story, Shane and Eleonore is what I’m. Because I know it exists. I know she. What she just said is true. It must be.
And so like we Talked about in 2024, there are people buying a lot of the smaller trailers versus the big ones. We’ve had this conversation on the show before, right?
Not that nobody’s buying big ones, but like, I think there’s been a fundamental shift in some of the manufacturers and the models that people make and things that are selling. How do we tell that story?
Because that’s an interesting story and maybe you’re already telling it and maybe just the campground side that I pay attention to doesn’t hear it as much. But how. Because there are for sure positives, just like she said, right.
Shane Devenish
00:48:47.000 – 00:48:51.760
You know, I think the industry does a good job of telling. Gorevine does a great job, you know.
Brian Searl
00:48:51.800 – 00:48:56.260
And that’s consumer, right? So like, I’m just talking about like for campground owners, I guess.
Shane Devenish
00:48:57.400 – 00:48:59.020
I’m. I’m not sure.
Brian Searl
00:48:59.640 – 00:50:23.400
I mean, I don’t know that there’s an answer I get like, because you’re right. Go RVing does an excellent job, but they are mostly consumer facing. And so that I think is covered. They do again in Canada and the U.S.
i think they both do a great job with their marketing and their reach and bringing you people in and their campaigns that they have and all that stuff. But I’m.
But I mean like the type of rigs that are selling well, the type of manufacturers or the individual manufacturers that are doing really well because they have either a different project product, just like we were talking about coming full circle to experiences, right? Experiences at campgrounds and glamping and all that stuff. Is there a way or should there be a way or is Brian just dumb and should shut up?
That’s maybe all of the above that like we can tell the stories of what is actually really being successful and that is a positive driver for the industry. Because I think not only does that help the RV industry and maybe you’re sharing all this stuff internally.
You probably are, but I think maybe it tells a story to a campground owner of like maybe I’m building or renovating my park or adding glamping or not adding glamping. What do I focus on? Do I focus on smaller sites that are more intimate or you know, what is my consumer going to show up driving?
Shane Devenish
00:50:24.540 – 00:51:34.570
I think it goes back to what Eleonore was saying before about us going to everybody’s meeting and you know, we see each other 10 times a year at least and, and talk a lot more frequently and, and lately we’ve been, you know, telling about, you know, certain units are getting longer and, and what the trends are.
We communicate those things as best we can, you know, to, you know, all the, all the campgrounds associated so they can, you know, move, move that down. I, you know, think things do change. You’re, you’re, you’re right that the trend may be towards a smaller unit.
But you know, it doesn’t mean that a commit campground owner should all of a sudden build smaller sites. You know, you know, they, they, these are trends. They go up and down. They change all the time.
And you know, if you can fit, you can fit a, a smaller unit on a big site, you can’t fit a big unit on a small site.
So you know, I, I think they’re, they’re can, they’re more, I guess listening harder when we say that the length of the units are, are increased, which there is some truth to that.
Eleonore Hamm
00:51:35.430 – 00:52:30.142
Yeah. And I would say working with, you know, the, the different, ourselves internally we have more information.
But working, you know, as a campground operator, at least in Canada, being part of your provincial association, which then in turn gets information from ccrba, which is the national, I mean we share a lot of that data with them. When I look at our RV stats for 2024, we have them to the end of November. The only segment that actually show growth was fifth wheels.
So you know, you’re talking about, you know, units, right. The lar, the fifth wheels. I mean they’re more expensive, they’re longer, they’re bigger, they can go up to 48ft.
So you know, for us to share that with CCRVA and then in turn CCRVA distributing that, you know, through their provincial associations, you know, that’s where I think the campground operators need to look to try to gain some insights and participate in some of the education that’s available to them through, you know, through.
Brian Searl
00:52:30.166 – 00:52:58.240
Their provincial associations, which I agree with completely. Associations are absolutely critical. I think my other question is is maybe a reflection on myself, too.
Is this partly my fault with Modern Campground? Like, could we do a better job of communicating with the RV industry specific to Canada? We’re talking to you guys. Right.
But obviously the US too, to tell more of those stories that campground owners would find useful.
Shane Devenish
00:53:01.300 – 00:53:02.080
Wow.
Brian Searl
00:53:02.660 – 00:53:05.640
Like, I’m basically asking you if I suck and you can say that.
Shane Devenish
00:53:06.340 – 00:53:17.890
Well, no, no. And I. And you’re all. All media is. Is important in this to help with the communication, including, you know, you, Brian, for sure.
Brian Searl
00:53:18.510 – 00:53:56.710
Yeah.
But I mean, we need to, like, can we be more proactive, is what I’m asking, to the Canadian RV industry, to the two people who are sitting here to help better tell stories that are relevant to campground owners.
Because as we’re all on the show together and we all see campgrounds related to glamping is related to RV industry as outdoor hospitality is everything. Right. Is there a larger role that is on us as a media company to provide better value to. Who are we’re talking about in this specific instance?
Campground owners. And if there is, I want to make a habit because it only benefits all of us, right?
Greg Emmert
00:53:57.650 – 00:53:58.026
Yeah.
Eleonore Hamm
00:53:58.058 – 00:54:14.120
Well, I mean, I don’t, you know, I. I’d have to have a look at.
At what you’re currently providing and to see if we can identify any areas where we can supplement that with additional, you know, resources and knowledge that we produce that might be helpful for the campground operators.
Brian Searl
00:54:15.100 – 00:54:53.440
Okay, let’s think about that then. Like, I don’t want to add work to your plate. We both know you do 2 billion things a day, Eleonore, So, like, I’m willing to do the work. Right.
Maybe there’s story ideas or suggestions or things like that, but yeah, I’d love to tell more of those stories because, like, all.
And, Greg, you tell me if I’m wrong, because we’re both in the campground industry side, and I’m obviously an American who immigrated to Canada, but we read Modern Campground, we read Woodalls, and I don’t read RV business because I’m just not as involved in the RV industry. And so I’m sure there’s much more of these stories there.
But from a campground owner side, those are the two basic news resources besides the Facebook groups, right?
Greg Emmert
00:54:53.560 – 00:54:54.340
Yep.
Brian Searl
00:54:54.920 – 00:55:15.226
So I feel like the only news we get from the RV industry is that shipments are up every month. And then the rest of the stories are about campgrounds, which, to be clear, is not the RV industry’s fault.
That’s a coverage issue because there’s very clearly more things going on in the RV industry than the fact that shipments are up or down or whatever they’re doing. Right.
Greg Emmert
00:55:15.298 – 00:55:16.030
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:55:17.490 – 00:55:21.190
So that’s what I’m trying to say, like, I think is on us to change.
Greg Emmert
00:55:23.570 – 00:56:00.196
I think that’s fair. I mean, I think.
I also think you guys and Woodall’s, I think you guys do a great job of covering the industry, putting out relevant data, but, you know, you. So you lead the horse to water. It is sort of incumbent on the owners, on the operators to read that, to pull out what’s good for them to.
To take it on in a way that is beneficial to them, whether it be good news or bad news. There has to be some ownership on the side of the meter. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:56:00.228 – 00:56:08.052
I mean, because of the content. Like, again, I don’t even read my own daily newsletter because I don’t have time. Sorry, Akari.
Greg Emmert
00:56:08.116 – 00:56:09.920
So that’s why it’s so bad.
Brian Searl
00:56:10.300 – 00:56:12.708
But like, but, but is it like, am I right?
Greg Emmert
00:56:12.764 – 00:56:13.780
No, it’s not. It’s not.
Brian Searl
00:56:13.820 – 00:56:25.118
Like, I feel like the only thing we see pushed from a. Not push, because that’s the wrong word covered on a repetitive, regular basis in Woodall’s and Modern campground is RV shipments.
Greg Emmert
00:56:25.214 – 00:56:26.910
When it comes to the industry itself.
Brian Searl
00:56:27.070 – 00:56:31.310
The industry itself? Yeah. Obviously we cover manufacturers and new models and things like that. Right?
Greg Emmert
00:56:31.430 – 00:56:31.918
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:56:32.014 – 00:56:34.810
And news about those people that are one time.
Greg Emmert
00:56:35.350 – 00:56:35.726
Yeah.
Brian Searl
00:56:35.758 – 00:57:09.060
So that’s what I think we can do a better job of because, like, again, we sit here and we’re talking about perception, and I’m pointing the finger right back at myself because my perception is, is that the only thing the RV industry pushes is that the good news that shipments are up and there’s so much other good news besides that. Right. Eleonore and Jane.
That, that my perception is, is that we just don’t see it outside of the circles of the RV industry that communicate and talk well together. So I’m pretty sure my perception is wrong. Right.
Shane Devenish
00:57:09.360 – 00:57:15.740
Yeah, I. I would. I would disagree. And I don’t think that’s only thing that we’re. We’re. We’re sending out.
Brian Searl
00:57:15.780 – 00:57:17.484
No, I’m saying I’m wrong. I’m saying.
Shane Devenish
00:57:17.572 – 00:57:38.786
Yeah, you know, I think there’s. There’s, you know, releases on.
On new features and, and neat new models and, and, you know, how the industry is doing as a whole and economic impact and all that. I think. I think there’s more than just a monthly report. That’s.
Brian Searl
00:57:38.818 – 00:58:34.260
I agree with you. I’m just saying that the campground side of the news tends to only, it appears to me, cover the shipments. And so, again, I’m with you.
I 100 agree with everything you just said. I’m asking. And you don’t have to give me an answer right now.
But generally speaking, this is the theme of my question, is how do I help change that narrative so that we’re amplifying more of the positive messages that come out of the RV industry? Because they’re there. Right. Just like Angele said, not everybody’s gonna have a positive story. Right.
And again, we talked about 2025, but in 2025, there are going to be nuggets of amazing manufacturers with amazing stories and great employees and wonderful customer service and improved maintenance and better service wait times and all the things. Right. So many things to talk about from a positive aspect. How do we do a better job of sharing that?
Eleonore Hamm
00:58:34.800 – 00:58:42.620
Well, it just seems that, you know, whoever’s doing the research on your side needs to tap into other. Other sources than just the RBIA shipments.
Greg Emmert
00:58:43.520 – 00:58:44.232
Absolutely.
Brian Searl
00:58:44.296 – 00:58:57.740
I’m blaming myself. We’re on the same page here, right? Like, but that’s what I need. Like, I need.
Because I’m not in the RV industry, I need somebody in the RV industry to tell me how to do it better. What happened to my camera? It’s like, oh, orangey now.
Greg Emmert
00:58:58.440 – 00:59:08.048
Oh, so the Trump thing. Yeah. You didn’t hear about that? So they signed an executive order to make you all look orange just like him every time you get on the camera.
Brian Searl
00:59:08.144 – 00:59:09.060
I’m sorry.
Greg Emmert
00:59:10.520 – 00:59:18.240
Yeah, that’s gonna be terrible. You know what, Brian? Can I steer us a different direction? I ask a question.
Brian Searl
00:59:18.360 – 00:59:18.848
Yes.
Greg Emmert
00:59:18.944 – 01:00:12.190
You don’t care, so I’m curious. So Shane said earlier, you know, if they end up flat or maybe up a little bit, he’d feel like that’s.
That’s an okay thing for this year, given all the. The chaos, the uncertainty right. Between elections and tariffs and. And orange camera feeds. I’m. I’m curious to see, like, Angele, what.
What do you see for glamping for. For, like, flip side of the coin. So if that’s what, you know, Shane is hopeful for on the RV side, what are you hopeful for on.
What are you looking forward to as far as occupancy and. And similar, you know, looking at. You don’t look at RV sales because you don’t have to have an RV to stay at your place.
So maybe are you looking for a big bump up this year? If RV sales are flat, what are you sort of forecasting for this year?
Angele Miller
01:00:12.490 – 01:03:44.912
Yeah, that’s a good question. You know, and it’s kind of one of those things where we, it was almost scary to see what was going to happen this winter.
I know for us like in where we’re located, the province of New Brunswick has over 40 glamping resort that just popped out in the last two years. Competition is on an all time high and the economy is not, you know, showing as strong.
So there’s only so much, you know, potential opportunity, you know, for, for the glamping operators to really like strive in this, in this time, you know, and especially even in the winter season here.
And so for us right now, what we’re seeing like, you know, already happening and because of how we also came about our resort specifically is we came to be an affordable, high end, luxury, glamping experience.
So because we’re, we position ourselves in that segment, we’re still staying strong in terms of bookings, you know, like we were not expecting to be as full as we are. So you know, right now for us, our weekends are full already till end of April and our weekdays are getting full by the day.
It’s more of a last minute thing that it used to be six months before we would be sold out, but now it’s like two weeks before we’re starting to fill out.
But what, what we’re seeing is that there’s a lot of glamping resort we just saw coming for sale and some that are actually decided to close out for the winter. So we’re seeing the impact, but they’re, the category they’re playing in is more in a high end, luxurious, more expensive, you know, caliber.
So I think a lot of people are being conscious financially, you know, with all the costs going up and everything. You know, those ones are being impacted a lot more than we would be impacted. But we’ve definitely been impacted more than usual.
Usually, usually for us we’d be 100 capacity all the time. And now we’re probably at 70, 80% capacity.
So we’ve seen the shift even in where we are positioned, you know, so for us we’re just trying to focus on the experience and the customer service and you know, we’re really pushing that hard to make sure that everybody comes has a good experience experience and even to jump a little bit on that because I know earlier we were getting a conversation, you know, people complain and there’s comments and how do you keep those customers happy? Sometimes you just can’t, you know.
But for us, what’s really like helping us keep that up in terms of even getting to bring a lot of people in and keep the Customer service level up is when people make bookings with us, we’ll ask them question. And a lot of time people, when they go glamping or they go away is because they’re celebrating birthdays, anniversaries, you know, all these things.
So we ask them question and we take notes of everything. So when the guests come back, we, we welcome them and say happy Birthday. And they’re like, oh my God, how did you remember my birthday?
You know, like just little details, but little details that really bring that up for us and keep people coming back and keep us full in the time that we were not at school expecting maybe to be as full as we are, you know, so we’re really like pushing the bar to, to keep that up so that people will keep coming, you know, in these situations.
Greg Emmert
01:03:45.056 – 01:04:23.630
Yeah. So you, you built essentially affordability in to the, the very core of your business, right? You’re, you’re luxury but affordable.
And so I wonder then flipping the coin back to Eleonore, Shane, are you seeing manufacturers doing the same thing where they’re trying to build more affordability into the new units so that it, because of the economic uncertainty to try to drive more sales, whether it be smaller units or the fifth wheels. Do you see them trying to build in affordability at their core like Angele is doing in order to sustain or grow their sales?
Shane Devenish
01:04:27.180 – 01:04:50.440
I think the demand starts with a consumer who goes to the dealer and says, you got more of these? And then the dealer orders those from the manufacturer.
I think it’s, you know, there’s one huge dealer group in the US who are just doing that and they’re, they, they drive a pretty considerable influence on what the manufacturer builds.
Greg Emmert
01:04:52.390 – 01:05:15.890
Okay.
So you’re not necessarily seeing the, the, the builders up there saying, look, we’ve got a, we need to build affordability and we’ve got to make that part of our core mesh message. Let’s, you know, this line is going to be built or build or advertised or marketed as the affordable line that we put out. Nothing really like that.
Or, or is there anyone out there doing that? Just curious.
Eleonore Hamm
01:05:16.560 – 01:06:09.774
No, I mean, you know, in terms of our marketing to consumers, affordability is one of the key messages that we are focused on. It’s been very important and you know, again with gorebeam Canada has been, you know, one of their key strategies for this year.
But when we talk to the manufacturers, it’s exactly what Shane said. It’s the consumer is what dictates what product ends up really in the industry. It’s consumer driven. They’ll go and ask for product.
You know, how units become longer, bigger. I mean, it’s, you know, because consumers are demanding, you know, more slide outs, more, you know, more space, you know, but.
But at the same time, you know, like, you know, towables, lightweight, you know, that was, again, was because consumers were dictating that trend. Affordable units, yes, will be one of them, but definitely not. Not solely what they’re focusing on.
Brian Searl
01:06:09.942 – 01:06:22.398
And it’s so much harder from an RV industry perspective. It must be from an RV industry perspective to focus on affordability where. Versus a glamping resort or campground.
Like, not that it’s easy for a glamping resort or campground. Right.
Greg Emmert
01:06:22.454 – 01:06:24.878
No, but. But considerably easier. Yeah, you’re right.
Brian Searl
01:06:25.014 – 01:06:34.900
Hearts are much more expensive today than they were a few years ago. Right. So, like, even if you wanted to focus on that affordability, where do you do it?
Greg Emmert
01:06:35.680 – 01:07:10.132
Yeah, yeah. It would take a. Not just a rebrand. It’s. It’s. It would take almost like outfitting your entire line to.
To build a new affordable, you know, we’re coming out with a new affordable line or a new affordable model and market it that way. It would be very different than being able to do it, you know, day by day by. By clicking on your rates and. And moving them up or down.
I think it’s also interesting what you said, Brian, that ties back into your work with Scott, that that booking window has shortened considerably. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m sorry I hijacked your show. It’s seven minutes over now.
Brian Searl
01:07:10.316 – 01:07:38.004
No, it’s fine. Like, I mean, again, if somebody needs to drop up, but we’re gonna wrap up here in a second anyway.
So I, I think that, I don’t know, like, just lean into the expensiveness, Eleonore. Just make it more expensive and give them an experience that they want.
Like, for example, Shane greeting everybody inside the RV when they open it for the first time. They already bought it. Right. And Shane is in there with like a custom sign that says, hey, Cheryl, welcome home.
Everybody would pay at least 10 grand more to see Shane, I think.
Greg Emmert
01:07:38.172 – 01:07:39.000
Indeed.
Brian Searl
01:07:40.460 – 01:07:42.660
10 grand. Us to be clear, I’m pretty sure.
Shane Devenish
01:07:42.700 – 01:07:48.084
They’Re gonna way more pay 10,000 more for me not to be there, Brian.
Greg Emmert
01:07:48.212 – 01:07:49.396
Oh, there’s the value prop.
Brian Searl
01:07:49.468 – 01:08:32.089
Not if you had the sign. The sign is what’s gonna make the difference. It’s the experiential custom sign. Yeah, but.
Yeah, I mean, I, I didn’t mean to get into such a perhaps lightly controversial discussion. I wasn’t. Certainly wasn’t trying to insult anybody or things like that.
I just think sometimes we have to have these conversations among the industry and, you know, be forthright and figure out, like, people like me who are sucking and can do better. Right. Like how we can be better and all hold each other accountable. So I appreciate you being willing to answer those questions.
Hopefully you guys will show up next month again. I’ll get, like, emails after this. Be like, I’m sorry, Brian, your show’s terrible. I can’t come back. But thank you guys for being here.
Eleonore, where can they learn more about RBD of Canada?
Eleonore Hamm
01:08:32.469 – 01:08:37.049
They can go to our website, which is www.rvda.ca.
Brian Searl
01:08:37.829 – 01:08:39.613
And Shane Crva.
Shane Devenish
01:08:39.741 – 01:08:44.249
Yep. www.crva.ca.
Brian Searl
01:08:44.549 – 01:08:45.969
Angele, Creekside.
Angele Miller
01:08:46.709 – 01:08:57.230
So you can find us at our website, www.creeksidernr.com or any of the social media site on Facebook and Instagram as well.
Brian Searl
01:08:58.010 – 01:08:59.842
And Greg with Camp Strategy.
Greg Emmert
01:08:59.986 – 01:09:08.194
Yeah, you can find us on LinkedIn. You can email me directly gregcampstrategy.com or find us at our website, campstrategy.com all.
Brian Searl
01:09:08.202 – 01:09:28.166
Right, well, thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. It’s over now and the. The cool intro is coming back. So y’all waited and listened to me for an hour just so you could get to this part.
So don’t leave now. But thank you for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats. Really appreciate all of you being on the show and dealing with me.
And we’ll see you next week for another episode. Thanks, guys.
Greg Emmert
01:09:28.278 – 01:09:29.318
Thanks, Brian. It was great.
Shane Devenish
01:09:29.374 – 01:09:30.410
See ya everybody.