MC Fireside Chats – February 19th, 2025

Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats. My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks/Modern Campground slash whatever else I decide to do on a weekly basis that I can’t remember. From day to day. Super excited to be back here with you for our third-week kind of episode. We’re focusing on business operations, management, things like that.

So, got a couple of recurring guests here with us. Mr. Jeff Hoffman popped in during the intro. Kind of like, just wanted to surprise everybody when you came back. So, welcome Jeff. We’ll let you briefly introduce yourself in a second. We have Mike Harrison, who’s a recurring guest, currently in the car driving.

So, please

Mike Harrison: No, no, no. Undisclosed location. 

Brian Searl: Undisclosed location. Please don’t ask Mike any hard questions. 

Mike Harrison: Undisclosed location. You can ask me whatever you want. 

Brian Searl: Okay. Sandy Ellingson’s here as well. And then we have two special guests, Eric and Kelly, who introduced themselves briefly. But let’s just start with our recurring guests.

Jeff, do you want to go first? 

Jeff Hoffman: Yes, my name is Jeff Hoffman and my company is Camp Strategy and what we do is try to work with campground owners to relieve their stress of operations and also work with new buyers and potential buyers to make sure they’re buying the correct campground. 

Brian Searl: Kelly, have you known Jeff for a long time?

I feel like you maybe do. Okay, do you like this whole new vibe that Jeff has going on here? Like with the, and like it’s different, right? 

Kelly Jones: It looks great. He looks great 

Brian Searl: I know, it does look good. It looks really good. I’m with you. Okay. Sorry. 

Jeff Hoffman: It’s only because my office is 10 degrees and I’m freezing, so I have a hat on.

Brian Searl: It doesn’t look like it’s 10 degrees behind you. It looks like you have a nice plunge pool and everything else. 

Jeff Hoffman: Oh, yeah. 

Brian Searl: Mike, you want to introduce yourself briefly? 

Mike Harrison: Sure. Mike Harrison with CRR Hospitality. We own and operate upscale luxury RV resort and glamping resorts as well as manufactured home neighborhoods, storage and car wash, and we also do consulting, pre development, and then third party management for other owners as well.

And if you’ve seen Jeff in a hat, I’ve actually seen him in a suit. So 

Brian Searl: The hat looks better. I saw the picture of the suit in DC. The hat looks better. I think. It is. You just got a totally different vibe. Sandy, you want to introduce yourself? 

Sandy Ellingson: I’m Sandy Ellingson. I’m a retired technology consultant who found her way into the RV industry as an RVer.

And I serve as an advocate between the industry, which is those who make the RVs and campgrounds. Mostly, I am a big advocate for my campgrounds and I believe that none of us can succeed unless we understand the importance of our campgrounds and what they contribute. You know, just to the entire experience.

So I love doing that. And that’s what I do. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here. Sandy. Eric, let’s go with you first. Want to introduce yourself real quick. 

Eric Stumberg: Yep. I’m Eric Stumberg. I’m the co-founder and CEO of TengoInternet. And we design, build and manage wired and wireless connections and for the hospitality industry.

Focused primarily on campgrounds and marinas and some other things. So, it’s nice to be here. 

Brian Searl: Welcome back. We’ve had you on the show before, haven’t we? I’m pretty sure we did. It’s been a while, but we’re glad you’re here. 

Eric Stumberg: It’s been a while. I had hair the last time Brian, just to let you know. So just kidding.

But I like Jeff’s hat. So I, I would, I like the, if he turns it around, you’ve got a Michael Jordan right there too. So we’re going to, I’ll look forward to that, Jeff. 

Brian Searl: It’s actually, you know what? I hadn’t thought about that, but that’s good. Yeah. Like, I think we should all get hats next time. Just to like vibe with whatever Jeff’s outfit is every week.

Jeff Hoffman: I’ll send out a memo as to what 

Brian Searl: we need to plan in advance. Cause I got to go shopping. So yes, please. Or at least have Amazon Prime deliver me something. Kelly. 

Kelly Jones: Hi, I’m Kelly Jones. I’m the vice president of operations at Great Escapes RV Resorts based out of Houston. And prior to this, I was the vice president of operations for, at the time, Leisure Systems which is the franchisor for the Yogi Bear Jellystone Park Camp Resorts. And prior to that, my family owned and operated the largest privately owned Jellystone in the system and actually in the state of Illinois, the largest campground in Amboy, Illinois.

So we got into this crazy business as a family in 1976 and have been plugging along since then.

Brian Searl: How do you solve the fact that you don’t really age every year because I haven’t figured it out yet and I’ll get older every year and uglier you apparently don’t. I’ve known you for a long time. 

Kelly Jones: Oh, I do. Trust me. Trust me. I’m a grandma now. So, definitely aging on a regular basis. 

Brian Searl: Well, I want to start with you, Kelly, because I think like, obviously the theme of this overall show is business operations and management.

I think. We definitely want to dive into the ways that Great Escapes excels at that and some of the things you do with that, but I’d love to start with just, it’s kind of conference season, right? With some of the smaller trade shows. I know you’re a big speaker at those shows. How are they going so far?

What are you, cause that’s a big part of business operations and management, is continuing the educational process, learning, networking, things like that, right? 

Kelly Jones: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, obviously we start in November we own a KOA and we own nine jellystones, and then we have six of our own private brand.

So between going attending OHI, attending the KOA conference, attending the jellystone conference. We also always, I personally attend the Gatlinburg gift show in November to supply our retail venues, you know, with the greatest trends. So November is packed full and then come January, yeah, we start with a different state.

shows. Last, I think last week I was in the Carolinas with Dee Witting and her group and was honored to be the keynote speaker there to really focus on team building and experiential team building. You know, it’s the first step in really providing that much customer service to our guests.

And the week before that, we had all of our managers in our brand new Jellystone Park location in Loudon, Tennessee. We had all 38 members of the leadership at the park level come in for a week long training. Focusing on those exact things to building guest service paying attention to the details.

And then one of the things that we’re taking and continuing forward from our managers meeting is a weekly book club. And we’re currently reading Unreasonable Hospitality by Joel I’m going to butcher his last name, so I’ll apologize, but Ghadara. And so we have our first, we have our kickoff meeting tomorrow, actually, to get started and kick off the club so that we can provide that level of hospitality in all of our properties.

Brian Searl: I would love to dive into that team building aspect with you if you want to real quick with me because I think that’s often I don’t want to say it’s always because there’s obviously great companies like you who are focusing on it, but I think it’s often overlooked in many businesses, not just campgrounds and RV parks.

And I don’t know if you disagree with me if you want. I’m just speaking from maybe my own experience in the businesses that we’ve talked to. But like you talk about business operations and management and there’s always that. There’s an efficiency layer, there’s a maybe standard operating procedures, there’s documentation, there’s all the things that typically you would think go into operations, but I think too many people are overlooking the team that goes into the operations that executes and the SOPs and the documentations and all those things, right?

Talk to us about why that’s so important for you at Great Escapes. 

Kelly Jones: Sure. We just really feel that it sets the foundation. You know, when we own and operated our park every once in a blue moon, we actually like to take a day off as a family and I don’t know, maybe see each other and do something outside of the campground.

And if you don’t have that solid team. That, you know, can provide the level of service you want to your guests on your property that work like a well-oiled machine, for lack of a better word. Your team and your business is really only as strong as your weakest link is, right? So, by focusing at the beginning of each season and then throughout the season and building relationships within those teams. So that they can trust each other to not only do what’s right for the to do what’s right for the team. It’s just really crucial. And I think you know, I have started to do this workshop in a couple different venues in our industry and initial response from quite a few people is.

they kinda roll their eyes and team building. It’s hokey for lack of a better word. Like, I’m going to make a little hands and sing Kumbaya, right? So I was fortunate enough to attend several different training sessions with some great leaders who. You know, we took train the trainer courses and really have just focused on and dug deep to really make sure that our teams are focusing on that.

And by having a strong team, we know that on the other end, it provides a better experience for our guests. People are more willing to help others that they have a relationship with, that they have something in common with. And you know, we have people in our workforce. Like most campgrounds do 14, 15 years old to 80 years old. 

And so there’s a lot of generational differences on work ethic, on even meanings and words. What does it mean to be loyal to a company? Looks very different to someone my age and older than it does to a millennial and younger. And not that either is right or wrong. They’re just different. And so understanding those generational differences when you’re trying to build a team is very important and helping them to understand each other.

You know, we were all teenagers once we were all young ones. We all knew more than our parents did. And then when we became parents, we found out that ours were pretty smart. And you know, it’s that evolution. And so we cut to the chase And help that along and help everybody understand why someone is doing something and show that a 15 year old does have something in common with an 80 year old or, you know, a 50 year old Your team will work better together, and again, the result of that on the other end is a better experience for your guests.

So, really just trying to make that base firm. 

Brian Searl: I think what fascinates me about the whole team building aspect is that there’s so many ways to do it. Right. There’s obviously way more ways to do it wrong, but there’s so many different ways to do it. Like, I was watching, I think, Tom Bilyeu’s podcast the other day.

I don’t know if you guys have ever watched him. It’s kind of a long form podcast, but he was playing a clip from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of Chase, this kind of an undercover recorded, like, Kind of he wasn’t supposed to be on camera, but he was cursing saying the f word talking about how he can’t handle anybody working from home anymore Because the it’s just not as efficient and nobody works together and not as a team and you can’t communicate right.

And like from my aspect like my team’s been working at home, you know, either was just me in 2011, right? But forever and I feel like yes, there are benefits like I agree with them on one side But I also disagree with them on one side because I feel like well All of us could always do a better job. I think we do a pretty good job of putting an emphasis on culture of getting people together and team outings and gatherings for dinners and drinks and things like that.

But still, like being successful, like a lot of people say, you can’t do that from work from home. And so I just, it interests me how there’s so many different ways to approach the team building aspect. And I think it’s really just getting, and maybe correct me if I’m wrong, Kelly, because you’re clearly more of an expert on this than I am, but it’s just getting people to empathize with each other, their situations and the guests or the customer, and then working together to solve a common solution or common problem that you’re trying to get to a solution for.

Is that right? 

Kelly Jones: Yeah, it really is. And again, it just, it goes through building that trust that, you know, your teammate is always going to do the right thing and for the team, for the company, for the guest and building that trust is the essential for everyone. 

Brian Searl: And it’s hard, like it’s hard. Well, it’s hard for me anyway, right?

Because like I, you know, I come out at you, everybody comes out a problem with their own way of like, I know how to solve this. I’ve been working on this for X number of years. This is exactly how it needs done. But there could be seven other ways to do it that are equally or even better than the way you thought.

And so just having that ability to kind of let go and place that trust, like the what’s the exercise where you fall back and let somebody catch you in the arms, right? Or whatever. Having that trust exercise to know that is yeah. I think easier for some harder for me, perhaps, but you’re right. Like you have to get there somehow.

Mike, you have placed a big emphasis on this CRR too, right? 

Mike Harrison: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, there’s a balance. There’s the on property culture, and then there’s the, if you want to call it a remote corporate culture and they all have to integrate and be seamless, you know, and as Kelly said, you know, Brian, you’re expressing it.

And I don’t mean to say it this way, but like, as if it’s commonplace and everybody does it. But I don’t think that’s true. You know, some companies don’t focus on it at all. And you can see clearly where, you know, their Google reviews or their Glassdoor reviews or their Indeed. And so I think a lot of people take it for granted.

But it has to be an intentional effort. And, you know, at CRR, for example, like you, our leadership team is entirely remote. So we work hard at having, you know, touchpoints. And, we have live meetings on teams all the time with video. We mandate it. People chuckle about we have virtual office every week, but then we also have in person meetings at least 56 times a year to make sure, because you can’t replace that water cooler talk, if you will.

But we do, things like strategy sessions, but we always make sure we’re intentional. We do axe throwing or, volunteer days at the humane society just to make sure that we’re reinforcing the culture and the communication with each other. Yeah. But also as Kelly mentioned, and this is going to be different for everybody, how do you manage a culture remotely, for your properties we have in our budgets built in everyone, every property has associate recognition.

And so we make sure that there are plans in place to do that. Every GM does it a little bit different and that’s okay because they have a style. But you know, for example, this week is a random acts of kindness week. Nationally. And we have a big focus on, sharing the random acts of kindness.

Sometimes it can be bigger you know, maybe, visiting the senior center and spending a full day or sometimes it can be smaller holding a door open for someone. But I think intentional is the important word, that we embody. You know, we do an associate engagement survey every year which is very important to us.

We’re 25 points above the industry average. Our associates fill out a workplace survey for the state of Arizona. We’re two years in a row, top place, top workplace in the state. So it’s, we believe the associate drives the guest culture. And listening to Kelly, I’m sure she, you know, feels the same way.

The associate needs to feel engaged and amazing about the place that they work in order to deliver those same experiences 

Brian Searl: for the guests. So how do owners who are watching the show and maybe haven’t put that kind of deep thought into team building, because as you articulated, it is very true.

I think, I don’t want to say most, but a lot of people don’t put intentional thought into the team building. So whether you’re a campground that’s large like a Great Escapes or a CRR, or you’re an individual mom and pop with maybe five or ten employees or even smaller, or you’re a Jeff with just Greg and you guys are trying to do team building remotely how do you, like, what is, where’s the starting point, right?

If I don’t know anything about team building, where do I start?

Mike Harrison: I can keep going unless somebody else has some thoughts. But you know, go ahead. 

Kelly Jones: No, I was saying go ahead. 

Mike Harrison: Oh, gotcha. I believe it starts with the leader and it starts with your values and you know, or your values something that just gets stuck in the wall and never talked about or do you live them?

And you can have formalized programs and you can have informal programs. And as you’re speaking to, the campground owner that might only have three associates or 50 sites or, 30 associates, it doesn’t have to be expensive. You can certainly do formalized events, you know, quarterly luncheons or an annual holiday party.

But, you can also do simple note cards that cost pennies, as long as it’s thoughtful and that, you reinforce it and that it’s regular. I think that’s the important thing, but it starts with the leader and the culture of the property slash group slash company.

Kelly, you agree? 

Kelly Jones: Absolutely. And there are a lot of great authors and great books out there that can help you get started. One author and a speaker that I have used many times. His name is Jim Kane. His website is teamwork and team play. And he has a ton of free resources along with, I know he’s written over, I’m sure over 16 books.

Thanks. And some focus very much. So on how to build your team. Some also just focus. He comes from the American Camp Association world. Like think Boy Scout Girl Scout church camps, YMCA camps. That’s kind of where I ran across him the first time and saw him speak. And so a lot of the. A lot of the issues that those camps have are very similar to what our campgrounds have.

They’re seasonal employees, they’re younger, they’re trying to keep people entertained and you know, their employee base is also very wide and varied. So his team-building ideas get people up and out of their seats. I know during COVID he did a whole thing on virtual team building. So there’s books out there on that.

But that he’s a great resource and that’s probably where I would point any individual. Owner to just Google one of his books. And if you want to do you know, in the South Carolinas, we’ve used quite a few props to, to do our team building. And you can order all of those through him as well on his website.

So, you know, he also has stuff to do that you don’t need props for, but he’s a phenomenal resource. So I would definitely point people in that direction. 

Brian Searl: And that’s, I think the key takeaway for me is like, it sounds if you step back and look at it from a, I have to build my whole team and build this whole culture and do all the things that Kelly has done at Great Escapes and Mike’s done at CRR, that’s going to be overwhelming.

But if you start small with, just like you said, a Google search of this person or. Go to chatgpt and ask where to start or something like that. Then like it becomes a little less if you take it in small chunks and then you kind of figure out where to go from there. And there’s so many different ideas out there, right?

Like, I mean, we could take the reverse. So we’re talking about getting people together who work remotely. We could take people who work together at a campground and just put them in different cabins and have a virtual meeting to keep Eric in business at Tengo. Cause somebody like poor Eric, I mean, we’re trying to get people together.

It lessens the reliance on Wi-Fi, and I want to just make sure that he’s taken care of over here. 

Eric Stumberg: I mean, Brian, I just add, I think, so we’re we’ve been a military friendly company, I think, for seven years. And when we talk about like hiring veterans we always talk about having a mission and values that we’re fighting for.

So the first stop is, are, you know, do you have a mission and do you have values that are worth fighting for? And I think Kelly and Mike were referencing that. Are they clear? Do you hire? Do you fire? Do you reward? Do you recognize based on, right, those values that are really important? Right? So I think that’s a big thing.

You know, a friend of mine was talking about kind of like, hey, you can’t give away what you don’t have. So if you’re not developing your employees, and you’re not pouring into them what you want them to pour out right into your customers, it’s not going to not sustainable or consistent. And so I think that all those practices are really good.

We are remote. We have probably 25 percent of our employees are remote. And, but we have a stand up call every week where we all meet virtually, right? And we do some rhythms that are weekly, monthly quarterly, annually to try to build, right? And affirm the coldings that are really important, so that really resonated what you’re talking about, Brian and Kelly and Mike, even though I do like the remote stuff, it’s helpful for the business. I’m 

Brian Searl: just teasing you. We’re going to get to Wi Fi in a second. Jeff, how do you handle this with Greg? Just two people. Do you guys like get together for casino night or go to the bar?

Jeff Hoffman: Yeah, actually we have a week, a weekly meeting that we do. But one of the things that our company does is. Come into your business and try to teach you how to do team building, how to get organized, how to use some systems that will help everybody get together, create accountability. I find that employees, if they know what the goal is and they know how you’re trying to get there and you bring them along and include them in all the discussions when you’re building procedures, they’re more apt to work with you.

To get that done. And that’s kind of what we try to bring to a business when we come in is operating systems that will help you build teams within it ends up being everything works together. Everything needs systems, procedures and all of that. But that’s what helps bring the team, you know, I learned team building a long time ago when I was a kid and I played running back.

Well, if those guys don’t like you and don’t block for you, you’re going to die. 

Eric Stumberg: Yeah. 

Jeff Hoffman: So it definitely takes teamwork to make anything work. And all of that is just getting together and working on what the problems are. Keeping an ear open as managers and owners and listening to your employees, they know the grassroots portion of your business and they probably know the solutions.

They just don’t want to say, why do you bring it? Why do you 

Brian Searl: think that isn’t the human psychology that they’re at some? Cause I think you’re very right. Like some people are in my mind. It’s a, I’m afraid that I won’t be listened to, or I’m afraid that I don’t have all the information and I might be wrong.

Jeff Hoffman: Right. Everybody’s always afraid to say anything and that’s how you can’t, you’ve got to build it into a situation of trust where they have the trust in these meetings that they can open up and say what they have. It’s very difficult. You don’t want to go off as a dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, but you want to keep them engaged and then work with, because if they bring it up for them, it is a problem or there’s an issue, something.

So you want to have it brought up. You want to address it. You want to work around it. The biggest thing is to listen and actively listen. And then interact with them about the problems they’re bringing up and then finding solutions. If you can sit down and solve problem after problem with procedures and systems, eventually you get to run your business because you’re not working on fires, you’re working on growth.

Brian Searl: But I think that’s part of building trust too, right? Like building trust for the employee that they have the ability to speak up, that they will be listened to, that they will be, right? Yeah, so we’re all good. Sorry. 

Kelly Jones: Well, and I think for a long time, particularly for, let’s say, Gen X and older. And possibly somewhat an older millennial, we were always taught that you didn’t bring a problem to a supervisor unless you also brought a solution at the same time.

And so if you don’t have a solution, I mean, we were actively taught, don’t bring me problems, bring me solution. Right? And so there’s been a whole culture shift in the workplace. That now it’s okay to bring problems. But again, we have such a multi-generational workforce. You know, there’s that psychology there.

And again, my generation and older, we were taught that we were to be seen and not heard. A lot of our ideas were, kind of put down right from the get-go. So, there’s a lot of as you said, Brian, psychology behind it on why people aren’t as forthright. I have a senior in college and she’s perfectly comfortable expressing her opinion, right?

But I also have an older daughter who is nervous to call and make a doctor’s appointment because what if she doesn’t know the answer to the question they’re going to ask? Okay. So, there’s a lot of, like you said, you don’t want to look like you don’t know the answer. So there’s a lot of psychology behind people not being willing to speak up.

And it does start with building that trust first. 

Brian Searl: Sandy, do you talk to your campgrounds about this? I know we’ve kind of left you out here up until this point because I don’t know. Do you have a team? Like, is there a good deal of Sandy’s running around? I do have a team, I do, and it 

Sandy Ellingson: keeps growing. But the, yeah, it’s interesting because I’ve actually done this in several campgrounds because of my prior history, my consulting firm we had.

I was also mentored this way throughout my entire career. So it’s very natural for me. to try and help build teams. But I like to take a step back and say, you got to hire the right person to begin with. And it’s the Jim Collins, you know, put the right person in the right seat on the right bus. And then you can truly build a team.

And we did actually go in with one of the large part groups. They have about 125 to 175 employees in their summer. And of course, a lot of them are seasonal and they come in and. Like Kelly has said, there are all these different age groups and they were very new. It was their second summer and it basically was horrible.

It was. During a time when it was really hard to hire, they were taking any warm body to come in and they were putting people in whatever the first open position that was most needed was. And so they brought asked me if I had any expertise in that area. I brought in a friend cause I don’t like to facilitate these things.

But basically what we figured out was. We call it fruit basket turnover because everybody came in and we said, welcome to the meeting. You’re all fired. And then we said, we’re going to go through some training and then there’s job descriptions on the board and you can choose any one of them as long as you’re qualified for it.

And what was amazing was we didn’t change a single person, but almost every single person changed the role they were in. They had the perfect summer because they were put in a position. That they were designed to do. We had outgoing people that were stuck in the back making reservations and we had people who really never wanted to be seen out front trying to help guests and neither one of them were happy.

And when we swapped them. That it was like everybody started clicking and then they were talking to each other and they’re saying, oh, I love this. They were sharing stories and I’ll help you do this. And so, and there were a lot of team building things that we did. And so, yeah, I love hearing that this is actually going on because after that happened, I actually tried to facilitate that with several other of my smaller parks.

It was a really, yeah. You hard sell because there’s so many of them are mom and pops, right? And those people that are their employees that are their families are friends of their family And they don’t feel like they need this And really it’s such an amazing and freeing thing and ultimately it impacts your bottom line because a better employee And a happier employee and a better functioning team always impacts the bottom line in a positive way 

Brian Searl: Well, and that’s the real Goal here, right?

Like, obviously there are much, many more reasons to do this, caring about your team, building culture, all that kind of stuff, but ultimately if you’re on the fence about whether you want to do this or not, like it is going to impact your bottom line, your revenue, because it’s going to make, as Mike said, I think Kelly said it too, like it was going to make the guests happier, which is just going to cause them to talk about you more on social media or recommend you to family or friends or come back for a second stay that summer instead of just one, one stay, right?

All that’s going to impact it. Like, but it’s so much goes into that impacting of revenue, right? Like Eric, talk about technology and how that plays a role, too. Because these both kind of, to me, are similar in that there’s an anti-opinion that’s relatively strong. Actually, Toby O’Rourke posted about this morning on her LinkedIn.

I was reading about this, how technology can help the guest experience. Obviously, I’m a geek and a big proponent of that as well. But there’s misnomers just like there is about team building, about technology, about how we want people outdoors and we want them disconnected. So why would we want to involve tech?

Eric, what do you think? 

Eric Stumberg: Yeah, so, I think you, the philosophical question around technology enablement, right? So, it’s really about what’s the best experience that you want people to have in a property, right? And so, how can technology enable that experience, right? And that can start with, starting with when you’re doing reservations, right?

Is the reservation something you can make in advance online or call in, or do you have to make it, right? So, if you start there. Do you want people to check-in, right? Or there’s contactless check-in, right? That can start accelerating after COVID, right? Where people can just drive to their site, or write to their site.

You think about do you want people, how do you want people to access cabins? Do you want key cards and access controls? Do you want to come in the gate, right? Do you want people to, do you want someone to be there? Or do you want that to be enabled by something? To cameras, to point of sale terminals, where do you want to put registers in a property if you have them, and can you enable that with technology where you can bring something to them, right, and whether that’s a cart or whether that’s a tiki bar or whether that’s a gas station in a marina or you’re fueling a fueling station or something like that.

So when you think about kind of the operational side, or whether it’s you know, metering where you’re just like, oh, I want to know what I use, and I want to be able to look at that on a daily basis and that gets integrated into my checkout. So, I think it starts, like, how it can enable that, the guest experience that you want to eliminate well, actually make the experience what you want, and how much and you can Empower human experience right there.

Human connection to where it’s more relational versus technical and it can enable that right? Because I have more power if I’m walking around, if I have an iPad and I’m driving around like a lot of people do and the golf cart to check on people and they see something that can stop and pick it up, they can engage and they can actually.

If you want to have contacts, you can actually share that, and there’s messaging systems and all that. You can have camera systems that can identify people’s license plates, and when they drive in, you know who they are. Right, so, Mrs. Smith is here, and you can walk in, and say, Mrs. Smith, how are you doing?

They’re like, how did they know who I was? It’s like, well, there’s a lot of things that can help people be known and give them a great experience that they want. 

Brian Searl: And I think that, 

Eric Stumberg: And that’s just for me. I didn’t know which direction to go. 

Brian Searl: Yeah. I mean, I think that’s like, I think that’s the key here is that, Kelly talked about the mindset of how when we were, well maybe I don’t know, I’m old too, but I don’t remember having a job.

Like I had a job at Target. I’m sure I was treated terribly at Target way back when. Shout out to target who’s not in Canada. So I can say that. So, but like there was a different mindset when we were growing up through our jobs, right? To bring me a solution. Don’t bring me a problem.

And so just like that has changed. I think the same thing with technology has changed where we need to focus on technologies that both enhance the guest experience and Yeah. Enhance our operational experience as business owners, and I think that’s the key is figuring out how to balance that, you know, I’m a big advocate of that.

Toby was talking about that on her LinkedIn post this morning. Great companies like can’t map and road trippers using AI and stuff like that. Just figuring out how do I deploy technology, whether it’s the point of sale systems or the key card check-ins at the cabins or whatever it is, right? All of which requires Wi-Fi.

Shout out to Eric. So, but figuring out how do I deploy technology that I know will make my operations more efficient or even in some cases earn me more money, but also will, unlike the and everybody’s used to this technology experience, right? But also will make the guest experience better because we’re used to, I think, in the past, given the way companies have deployed technology.

We look at phone systems where you get stuck in a call branch forever, or you talk to a terrible a I chat bot, which wasn’t even a I way back when, right? They can’t even understand what you’re saying. Or in the case of even UPS today, you can’t actually get to a human no matter what button. I’ve tried, trust me, and I’m pretty tech savvy and I can’t get to a human, but it’s that.

Would you agree, Eric, or? 

Eric Stumberg: Yeah. So, you know, I was thinking about if we looked at check-in processes where it was just normal to wait in line, there would be maybe 5, 10, maybe 20 RVs that were in front of you and you just waited three hours or you waited an hour and then people would walk out.

That’s just how it was. And it’s like, Oh, is that how you want the guest experience? And you think of Disney, changing line management and queue theory and things like that. And how we can, I was like, Oh. Well, how do we change that? And if we did that, would that improve them driving with people to their site?

Great. And so they started making like innovations. And so I think the same thing. So I just started with some of the operational side, Brian, cause that’s when we talk to our customers these operators. Those operational requirements are really are central to the technology deployment and the infrastructure around their internet.

And so it’s like, oh, and so we now ask you are, how are you thinking about this and what are you doing and how does this integrate with the technology solutions on that you have at your property and bringing some of that. Integration and ideation, right? With not just how do I connect to the internet and how do all the devices that I’m bringing and how fast should that be?

And, what I want the, the login experience to be and managing, a great consistent or whatever the brand experience that you want to that property, but it’s also how does it support, the rest of the business too, because all of those are part of that same guest experience.

Although. Great. It’s easy to say, the internet stinks, but you’ll hear it differently. The line was long, the internet wasn’t great. Gosh, I had to, you know, all these pieces that could be solved, through some type of enablement, right? And there’s a lot of really exciting ones that are happening right now, 

Brian Searl: and it takes that first person to do it, right?

It takes that first campground under to say, maybe the, maybe we don’t have to stand in line for 5 to 20 people deep with Arby’s pulled out into the street, blocking traffic, maybe there’s a better way to do it. And then it goes from 1 to 2 to 4 to 6 to 15 to 30. Right? And then the whole experience gets better across the industry.

Mike, how do you think about this? It’s here. Are you and I’ve had some conversations about technology, smart homes over the years. How do you purchase it? Sierra? Sierra.

I can’t hear you, Mike. I’m muted.

All right. Well, let’s, 

Mike Harrison: can you hear me now? 

Brian Searl: There we go. Yeah, yeah. 

Mike Harrison: Yeah, I mean, I think technology is an enhancement. It’s not a replacement. And so, there’s a lot of discussions around, the full AI integration and take all of our jobs and, it’s never going to replace a human. Can it replace tasks and some jobs?

And can it replace maybe some roles? Certainly it could. And I’m not just talking with AI, but whether it’s, the online checking experience or enhanced Wi Fi or, AI voice or all those things are gonna be great tools. But, you know, similar to Toby’s LinkedIn post, our belief is we want to lead the industry and evolve the industry to the modern world using technology to make our lives more efficient, to be on the cutting edge, to optimize to bring convenience to the outdoor hospitality world.

But at the same time, we’re passionate about experiential, hospitality and focused on the guests, and that’s how we distinguish ourselves. Now, general generationally, and Kelly alluded to this a little bit earlier, you do have to understand generational differences, right? The baby boomer generally wants touch points, needs to talk to someone, you know, Gen Z.

They’re happy if they check-in online. They go to their cabin with an automated lock check-in code, and they never see you. But you still need to be able to provide both experiences, to make sure that you’re, you’re hitting your multigenerational needs. So we’re passionate about technology, you know, insider perks as one of our partners and, they’re ruling out camp vantage, which is going to be really, I think, game changing for the industry.

Camp spots rolling out their revenue management platform, so I think the industry absolutely has to evolve, traditionally it’s been lagging the hospitality industry, but you know, things like revenue management will catch up. However, things like Camp Vantage are going to lead the hospitality industry that, hotels aren’t really doing yet.

So I think there’s an opportunity to do both. Utilize and leverage and enhance technology for the properties for the guests and for the associates while still delivering an outstanding, customer experience, 

Brian Searl: Jeff, how do you think about this at camp strategy? Because I know that there’s a lot of things that you’ve learned over the years that still hold true today that should still be practiced and kind of reverse balanced with technology, right?

So how do you approach that with your consulting? 

Jeff Hoffman: Technology has made the industry more secure. Interactive and allows us to get information quicker, allows us to do online reservations. It frees up some time, but what I want to see is, once we’re freeing up that time, I want to see our staffs have more time to interact with The people that are coming to the sites so that they’re not outwardly stressed when people show up.

We’re doing, our check-ins are all on tablet. When the guest arrives, as long as they’ve had the reservation, they don’t even go into the office. We want them to go directly to the site. The person checking them into the site checks the whole site, talks with the guest to make sure that they’re happy, and then they book them.

We’re I know that we don’t get the, by doing that we may lose some store sales, but I think getting rid of the stress for our campers checking in and getting their site and just getting them set up. I think eventually it’s going to pay off because then they will relax, come up to the store and probably buy more because the kids aren’t screaming.

Brian Searl: Yeah, there’s more time for you to get in the Yogi suit, Jeff. 

Jeff Hoffman: Walk 

Brian Searl: around and sell some store gear and merchandise. Yeah, 

Jeff Hoffman: you do realize that’s why I always owned KOAs to begin with because I knew who would be in the bear suit if I owned a Jellystone. Me. It was me. Yep. I know. And now I have a Jellystone, but it’s four hours away, so I don’t have to get in the bear suit yet.

Brian Searl: But I’m curious, like when you go, when you do your consulting for your different clients, Jeff, like somebody comes to you and says, either I’m developing a resort or I’m rebranding. I just bought this for the first time and they don’t know what to do. What strategy do they take? What technologies do they adopt or not adopt?

What old school? Practices. Do they keep around because those are tried and tested and proven? How do you approach that? Like, obviously it’s different client to client, right? But just a blanket kind of guide. 

Jeff Hoffman: Yeah. A lot of it depends on type of campground, whether they’re all seasonal, if they’re all transient or if they’re a mixed.

We’re also looking at different, as you know, there’s so many PMS systems out there, each one kind of satisfies a niche in the industry. So we’d be looking at different PMS systems and what are they going to do for the people. The old school part of that is your facilities, AI can’t do those. You’re still gonna have to keep your facilities up, you’re still gonna have to keep your grounds up, and you can’t change your employees.

So we, we definitely are in there preaching about guest satisfaction loyalty to the guest. I try to tell, when I own businesses, I tell people, I don’t have any money. If people do not show up through that gate and pay us, none of us are getting paid. So, your loyalty is not to me, it’s to the guest. And that’s kind of what we try to make our clients understand.

The main thing that they’re selling, their product, is their campground site. Everything runs off of booking that site. All the amenities, all the activities, everything else. The main ingredient of a campground is Getting that site occupied and everything else flows from that. And you get that site occupied by attending to that guest when, it starts from your webpage or to the phone call.

That’s the first point where people hit you. And that’s old school. Even if it’s AI, Brian, it still has to, have a smile. It still has to be interactive and give the guest the information they’re looking for. 

Brian Searl: I want to kind of bring this back full circle and ask Kelly and Mike and obviously Sandy or Eric or anybody who wants to chime into this.

But let’s bring this back to team building because we talked about how technology enhances the guest experience. Let’s talk about how technology enhances our team experience because that is full circle. It goes into the happiness like Sandy was talking about. Picking the role that you want, whether you’re an introvert, extrovert, guest-facing, not guest-facing.

Kelly, do you have some examples, maybe at Great Escapes and then Mike at CRR, of ways that door locks, technology, PMS systems, Wi-Fi, whatever else, has indirectly made team members happier with their roles? 

Kelly Jones: Sure. So I just want to say I was doing some research when I work for leisure systems. And in 1987, 1 of the topics for symposium was, should you invest in a small business computer?

So, to go from. Topic in 1987 to where we are now, I think, is really interesting. I think overall people are still going to buy from people. So, like Jeff was saying you know, your employees and your campsites are all super important and. Old school. We still attend RV shows. We don’t rely only on the website.

We know that campers are more social. So even when we’re leveraging technology we still have the personal components. We may be doing a scavenger hunt using campers apps. technological scavenger hunt, right? We still have the activity person out there doing, you know, the hype, if you will, for the activity, I think most importantly, most campground owners and operators, regardless of if you’re a multipark owner, a franchise or an independent owner.

Historically has spent 90 percent of their time working in their business and less than 10 percent of the time working on their business because they didn’t have the correct technological tools. To work on their business, right? And it took much time to go dig up that report and all of those things. So I think with our technology has improved in the reporting that we can pull out of our reservation systems, the reporting we can pull out of our point of sale, the reporting we can pull to see how effective our website is being right.

It allows us to actually be more productive when working on our business. Versus just always in our business and most campground owners that I know and have known over the years, all of us are very hands-on operators. And it’s challenging for us to take that step back and really, you know, I would rather poke myself in the eye than look at an Excel spreadsheet.

Quite frankly 

Mike Harrison: I agree. Yeah, Excel spreadsheets. 

Kelly Jones: But it needs to be done. And, you know, it’s important, to Sandy’s point earlier, I have people on my team who live and breathe Excel spreadsheets and love them. And that’s their role. And thank God, because not mine. So I think technology has just allowed us to.

really focus on the business aspect of it. And as you know, Mike said, the campground industry as a whole has been late to adapting to technology because it is so a socially based industry. And so as we become more technologically advanced, we’re able to work on our business more and make better data-driven decisions, which is But 

Brian Searl: it goes into every aspect, right?

Like, I’ll use one of your examples where you’re talking about activities. If you can use, let’s just say something like chatgpt or whatever else, right? Or download a template of activity ideas or pull it from a suggestion in a Facebook group. You know, if you can do that. Then doesn’t that in inherently make that employee happier if what they prefer doing is bringing the joy and waving around and enhancing the guest experience and they don’t have to do the monotonous thing of making the schedule so they can focus more.

Doesn’t that make them happier in their role? 

Mike Harrison: Yeah, I think there’s two components to it. One is what is. What provides a smoother operational experience for the associate, which helps reduce their stress and burden? Our associate engagement survey, we just finished it up. Our number one scoring question at a 97 percent was, you know, CRR is a great place to work.

For three years in a row. Our bottom scoring question is I have enough tools and resources to do my job. Doesn’t mean it’s poor, but there’s never enough tools and resources. So we try and find ways to make sure that we’re providing efficiencies and experiences for them that are optimized. And we use technology to do that at times for sure.

And like we have a engagement survey session tomorrow, which I won’t be able to attend. So I’m going to attend via team to participate and be present. But at the same time, that’s kind of the operational part. The engagement part, you know, you can use the tools. So for example, App My Community, which I know a lot of people have, which would be mixed property, a product, has an entire section that you can create for just your associates.

You can load the schedule on there. You can communicate, you can ask the swap shifts. We have a scavenger hunt for new hires. It’s loaded onto the app, so it’s a great tool to use for associate engagement. Or, if you’re familiar with flip book. And I know this sounds so silly and basic, but we use Flipbook for our quarterly associate newsletter.

Because it just feels much more modern and engaging and 

Brian Searl: feels easier and quicker to put together too. That’s what I don’t, I’m not just talking about AI. I’m talking about all the things you’re talking about. 

Mike Harrison: And so yes, efficiency is important and efficiency so you can find more time to focus on those things are important, but also tools, you know, so the associates and managers can do their job better and tools so that you can drive more engagement.

So, it isn’t a one answer fits all because there’s multiple ways. To use technology to your advantage, but I was reading a customer survey actually yesterday for Coachella lakes and you know, one of the comments was, the guests had gotten locked out of their own RV. So they’re trying to find spare keys and the maintenance person his name was Victor.

They mentioned the maintenance person came over and, you know, waited with my grid while AAA came and, wanted me to help and they escorted me to, and you, it. Hey, technology can never do that, right? This, I don’t know why my camera is all funky, sorry. Technology, yeah, technology.

Technology will never replace that. So you have to continue to focus on what technology can do to help, but Victor can never be replaced. That sense of human touch and compassion, empathy, care, physical, be there, that is what we do. Correct. 

Brian Searl: But you can give Victor more time to do what Victor did in that instance, right?

Mike Harrison: Sure. We get the point, Brian. 

Brian Searl: I’m talking about all the things you’re talking about, the flip books and everything else. That’s what I’m trying to say, that it’s way more than just what I’m focused on, right? 

Mike Harrison: It is, but I think there’s the balance where and I think this is where the fit and Toby mentioned this, the cautionary tale would be don’t do it too much.

Don’t, replace the human. Don’t, do it at nauseam so that you know, exclude the customer experience. There has to be the balance. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, 100% agree, 

Eric Stumberg: I think that the tools really resonates because when I looked at, like we did a, like an ERP deployment about two years ago, because there was just when people were talking about the amount of toil they had to get to get disparate pieces of information, they were spending, you know, 20, 25 percent of their time just trying to get data versus actually do things with it.

And just from a satisfier of your job reducing toil is a really nice satisfier, 

Enabler. It helped, you know, I don’t know if this is the right way to think about it, but a lot of the times in our business manager is our teammate in one sense. So one of the tools that we gave to teammate was this manager app.

A lot of times, you can go to some dashboard on a website, but we found people wanted to know. Hey, is every who’s connected? Are there any open arms? And if I need to connect somebody, I don’t want to call them. Can I just them? So we built an app that had an integrated ticketing system. So they had statuses and all sorts of things, right?

To give them at a glance. If a guest at a property said, Hey, what’s going on? It’s like, Oh, well, there’s 130 people on and they’re fine. Why don’t you call this number? And they’re like, great. And so, those are things that kind of. I guess better tools and equipping people and reducing toil, super helpful.

Brian Searl: You just have to start with that exercise, right? Whatever your unique situation is at your property, whatever you’re trying to solve, whether you’re trying to build a better team, or you’re trying to solve for the guest experience, or any of the number of other things that we’ve talked about in the show, I think you just have to start by putting yourself in that position, analyzing what you’re trying to solve, and then working forwards or backwards from there, really.

I guess forwards, but, is that fair?

Just one step at a time. So, okay. We’re coming up on our end of our show here. That went pretty quick today. So, any final thoughts or just kind of go around the room and Jeff you’re at the top of my screen. You want to have any final thoughts?

Jeff Hoffman: Just to let people know that technology is coming and it’s going to be a major part of our industry going forward. But you also still have to, we’re in a human business. We’re in a touchy feely business. So we got to merge the two together. 

Brian Searl: 100 percent agree. Yep. Kelly. 

Kelly Jones: Yeah, same, right? People buy from people.

People want to interact with people. You know, start by building your team, whether it’s one, one other person or 100 other people. And then technology is not a one size fits all answer. Just like anything else in our industry. Find what works for you. And. Build your network, attend the conferences and, you know, Brian, we started at the top of the hour talking about its conference season and how things start at one property and then get adapted and adapted.

And that’s how our industry moves forward. And that all happens at the conferences that people attend. And you know, not only through the classes and the sessions, but quite often the conversations that happen in the hallway are much more important. 

Jeff Hoffman: Yes. 

Brian Searl: Yeah, a hundred percent. I was talking last week on the show.

I think Greg Gerber, you probably remember him. Kelly. 

Kelly Jones: Yeah 

Brian Searl: He was sharing. He went, he does this forward from 50 thing now, but he was sharing that somebody did an unconference in Florida where it was just all networking, like little breakout tables near the bar and stuff like, obviously learning, which is totally different because you’re right.

The networking is where the real value comes from, like conferences, generally speaking, I think so. Yeah. 

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah, I was just thinking, as both of you were talking, something I would love to see, and I know that several of our state conference leaders, I always encourage them to watch this, and I would love to see some of these topics actually taught at some of those conferences, because there’s an economy of scale then that can be gained.

Some of these parks that may not be able to afford to bring a consultant in just for their park could participate then, because you could do a whole group of people at one time. So, little plug for that. Don’t laugh, Jeff Hoffman. 

Brian Searl: As Jeff still gets his check, that’s all I’m concerned about. So, if we want to gather people together and they all give Jeff money he needs to be able to afford his hats. Eric, why don’t you.

Jeff Hoffman: I’d rather do it in a classroom. 

Eric Stumberg: I just think we’re in the people business, right? And so as far as we’re willing to, and Bazelius are willing to engage that will be the limit or, right?

And so that’s one, I think technology is an enabler, and we just talked about that, of these different experiences, whether it’s an operational experience or an operational outcome, or a team experience, or a guest experience, right? But it’s an enabler of that experience. I think the thing Maybe we were talking about around just generationally but our employees and our guests, our customers are bringing expectations about technology, too.

And so there is something around us paying attention and adopting as we see fit, but there’s also expectations being brought to us that we need to meet or choose not to meet. And that’s it. 

Brian Searl: And I will do this. Eric, for the campground owners who are watching, where can they find out more about TengoInternet?

We’ll loop back through the other three and give you guys a chance to, but 

Eric Stumberg: Great. They can go to www.tengointernet.com or they can send an email to [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Thanks for being here, Eric. Mike, final thoughts? And then CRR? 

Mike Harrison: No. I think everybody, everybody said it well. I don’t need to restate it. I just appreciate the discussion. It’s a great one and it won’t stop. 

Brian Searl: Where can they learn more about CRR Hospitality and what you guys do? 

Mike Harrison: www. crrhospitality.com. Or you can send me an email at [email protected] or you can call Jeff or Sandy and they’ll tell you where to find us.

Brian Searl: Kelly, want to give you a chance to, where can they find out more about Great Escapes? 

Kelly Jones: Yeah, greatescapesrvresorts.com. We’re all pretty challenged with our names, right? And my email is [email protected]. Or find me on LinkedIn or, you know, at the next conference. I would love to, meet up in person with anybody 

Brian Searl: Awesome. And Jeff, Camp strategy. 

Jeff Hoffman: You can find us at campstrategy.com or if you want to email me, it’s [email protected]. Look forward to hearing from you. 

Sandy Ellingson: Really easy. It’s just [email protected]. E-l-l-i-n-g-s-o-n. 

Brian Searl: Awesome. Well, thank you guys. I really appreciate you being here for another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

I think was another great discussion I appreciate your participation just trying to give people some more insights into business operations and management I think we definitely achieved that today. So we’ll see you all next week for another episode until then. Take care guys We’ll see you. 

Jeff Hoffman: All right. Thank you.

Kelly Jones: Thanks, Brian.

Eric Stumberg: Thanks, Brian. Cheers.