MC Fireside Chats – December 14th, 2022

Connor: Hello everybody. Thank you for tuning in, and welcome to this week’s episode of MC Fireside Chats. As you’re probably aware, I am not Brian or Cara. [00:01:00] My name is Connor Schwab, and I’ll be filling in as the host today of this week’s episode. We’re really excited about the guest speakers and our reoccurring guest that we have on the show today. Before we jump in, I just wanted to give a a shout out to our this week’s episode sponsor Horizon Outdoor Hospitality. They’re elevating assets in the outdoor hospitality industry. So thank you for sponsoring this episode. Feel free to check out their website to have a look at their offering. And for today I’d love to kind of start by introducing our reoccurring guest, Zach Stoltenberg at Clockwork and Ruben Martinez of the American Glamping Association. AGA. Zach, do you wanna give a little bit of a brief intro on yourself? Zach: Sure. Like you said, my name is Zach. We, the outdoor hospitality studio for Clockwork Architects. We’re based in Kansas City and we help people build glamping resorts. We work all across the country, Connor: And I’ve had a chance at Sage to work with [00:02:00] Zach on several projects, and he is, he and his team do some absolutely incredible design, work and consulting in the outdoor hospitality space. So, always a pleasure to have you here on the show, Zach. And Ruben, you want to go ahead and introduce yourself? Ruben: Thanks, Connor. Hey, Zach. Yeah, Ruben Martinez. Good to see everybody. Hopefully everybody’s having a great week. I’m the founder of the American Glamp and Association, so I’ve been active in the unique outdoor hospitality space for over a decade now and have the distinct pleasure. Being able to work with people in this space that are aspiring, researching, thinking about it all the way up to industry leaders and everybody in between. So, as always, it’s just great to, to talk with everybody and hopefully everybody is doing well and that at fun and not too stressful places within their journey as the we’re getting to the end of 2022 somehow, I don’t know, you blink and all of a sudden it’s gonna be 2023. Connor: So, everybody keep your eyes wide open. But thanks Connor, and really happy to be here and hopefully everybody’s doing really well. [00:03:00] Yeah, thanks for being here, Ruben. Hopefully anyone who’s tuning in knows Ruben Martinez. He’s basically the godfather of this industry and certainly seems to bring everybody together. Ruben: You’re too kind, You’re too kind. Connor: I’m sure the amount of outdoor hospitality projects that you’ve helped bring to life and kind of empower to make their dreams a reality is countless. So, absolutely an honor and privilege to have here you here on the show as well. We have two special guests or three special guests. I guess we’ll start with John and Nancy of whispering Wilderness. Welcome to the show. Love to get a bit of an intro on your guys’ story. You know, where you came from what you did before glamping, what drew you into it, a little bit about your offering and your property. Before we kind of dive into the round table discussion. Nancy: Thank you for having us today. We came out to this area we’re in about an hour east of Toronto, Canada. And we came out to this area when my husband’s father bought this old rundown castle, and spent a couple years renovating it. I think we [00:04:00] were 18 and 19 and it’s become one of the leading spas in Canada now. It’s called St. Anne’s Country and in spa. And because of that, we ended up stumbling on to a fabulous water source that was on the property. So I’ll let you say talk about it. But John John started a water business. We, he was, we were bottling for about 10 years water from St. Anne’s site. And then he needed a backup source. So we stumbled upon this beautiful 200 acres, just about 10 minutes away from the original project and really have been sitting on it for the last 20 years, kind of not knowing what to do with it because we got under the water in just water business. And so do you wanna talk a little. John: Yeah. I wanted to hold onto the property for future generations, but I wanted to find a way to have it pay for itself, but also. Have something that had a relatively light footprint. My daughter came up with [00:05:00] the idea of glamping. When we heard the term glamping, we had no idea what it was. We did travel to the Finger Lakes District in upper state, New York, and visited a glamping facility there. As much as we enjoyed the facility, the weather wasn’t really that nice. We happened to travel down on a 40 foot diesel pusher, so I stayed in the diesel pusher for the night. But I realized some of the things that I didn’t I didn’t like, I didn’t like being cold for one. So we decided to go very high end with our Camping experience and put toilets and sink. Directly in the tents. We put a heating system in, we put bar fridges. Nancy: Soaker tub. John: Yeah. Soaker tubs. Tried to make it feel more like a a hotel room than a Camping experience. And because we were so different and it was new for Eastern Canada we got in at the right time and saw a [00:06:00] tremendous you know, kind of surge and reservations within the first year that ended up driving us into people wanting to use our facility for weddings eventually, because we, there’s no we were so unique and then Covid also happened and it was almost like we were built for Covid. Our business has. Pretty much almost doubled year over year. And we’re continuing to add to the facility. So as Nancy mentioned, our zoning is for 25 units and we’re we’re up to about 21 right now, still working kind of somewhat backwards on our infrastructure. We started with the tents. We moved into more outdoor pavilions to house the weddings. Nancy and I are still two years away from building a home on the property, which will classify as the Innkeeper’s residence. But we’ll we can talk a little further [00:07:00] on about how that’s going to allow us to broaden our winter season a little bit. So currently we open May long weekend and we shut down October 15th. And it’s not as if we have nothing to do for the winter. There’s always a good month at either end for setup and tear down. But we would like to be able to retain. , good quality staff and our managers throughout the winter months. And when you’re looking at that caliber of employee, they don’t tend to like to be laid off for three or four months. So we’re at the stage right now where we’re looking at how to kind of bridge that off season employment. Nancy: The one thing that did really surprise us though was when we kind of, you know, we had a neighbor come by and say, could I get married here? And then that got us thinking, well, let’s build a chapel in the forest so everything’s out outdoors, windows hanging from the trees and live edge benches. And that part of the business has really helped carry us [00:08:00] through. I think last summer we did a hundred weddings and it really helps make it a good, sustainable business and a lot of love going on. So. Connor: 100 weddings. Wow. Were you doing two per day or was it all at all for their own day? Nancy: Well, we very quickly realized at the very beginning, people wanted a weekend wedding, and then we realized, you know, every day has a value to it. So we have weddings Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night. They take over the whole park. We have a list of caterers they can choose from so they can kind of customize their own wedding. But it just, I think we’ve got a hundred booked for next summer already. So, you know, we kind of book the weddings out and then open up for regular reservations in the middle of February, and then that fills up the regular mid-week time. Wow. So that’s been a, I think if one thing we learned was don’t be afraid to kind of have different [00:09:00] little, just don’t set yourself up as. Just you know, an overnight accommodation, you know, it it really made a difference for our business, especially. Connor: Wow. Very cool. That’s super impressive. And when did you guys open, when did you first open? Nancy: We actually, he spent about a year making trails through the woods. The land was super raw. He had to bring this old pond back to life. And so that was about a year of prep work. And then May of 2017 we started work and we opened with just four accommodation, but we had our pavilion and a beautiful little bar called the Watering Hole. That’s kind of the centerpiece of the property. And we just wanted to get our feet wet because we didn’t know, is this gonna be accepted and. So our daughter started inviting influencers to come and write about their experience. And so that first eight weeks, we were open for that year because we finished in end of [00:10:00] August. We sold out very quickly, and then the next year we had 10 tents. The next year we were at 15, and then he built the treehouse tents. And so we’ve just kind of been gradually working up to what our numbers are allowed. Ruben: And John and Nancy as you guys were starting to expand, was each one of those, sounds like you guys have done numerous expansion points. Has that always been a easy decision? Obviously you guys were taking it season by season and then adding more and more. Was it, did it feel a little bit more like a complicated, nuanced decision or was it just very clear and transparent that each season you guys needed to add on? Nancy: Very clear. Yeah. John: We probably, at least during the four full years that we’ve been operating, run at an occupancy rate in excess of 90%. Connor: Wow. John: The weddings really help us do that. As Nancy said, we allow weddings to book first so that we don’t have random reservations messing up [00:11:00] weekends cuz the weddings are an exclusive purchase. At our facility they, when somebody wants to do a wedding, they in fact have to take over the entire park. So in answer to your question, you know, when you’re running at a 90% plus occupancy rate, it’s just basically a no-brainer to to add more rooms once the infrastructure is in place. If you’re in the hotel business, it’s all about heads and beds. And so that’s why we’ve moved kind of to a second phase. Of our facility, which is much more Airbnb based, but around the perimeter of the property. Although we can house about 60 guests of our own within the park there, our average wedding is, you know, between a hundred to 120 people. So we’re constantly trying to figure out ways to put more accommodation in place within the proximity where people, you know, don’t have to get into a car and drive. Worse case scenario, we might [00:12:00] shuttle a limit of golf cart. Nancy: And actually we encouraged all our neighbors to create little Airbnbs at their house. So all the neighbors are happy because they’re making money . And so we thought this, you know, if they’re happy, we’re happy. Connor: That is a good, I haven’t heard of anyone doing that, getting their neighbors to their Airbnb, their houses so they can get in on the action. Yeah, it’s, that’s nice when they’re on board and can share in the benefit. Nancy: Oh, for sure. Yeah. They’re all like, excited about the season cuz you know, money’s pouring in , so. Connor: Yeah. And how is it for you guys I guess? I, in terms of like, cuz we at Sage we chat with a lot of folks who are considering an event in a weddings business and it’s a lot of people ideas and I know there’s kind of some trade offs in terms of, you know, typically you can get a much higher price per night or for booking out the entire property versus if you book them separately, but then, you know, there’s quite a bit of logistics that go into, or maybe even some might say stress it that goes into hosting a wedding. And I was just curious what you guys have [00:13:00] found with like the trade off or, you know, from the monetary perspective in, in your events and wedding business versus normal, overnight guests. Nancy: Actually we have found it almost easier , I hate to say, because you know, when you have regular glamping, it’s you know, they settle right in and these people are here for the wedding. So you know, we have a great big pavilion we built that houses 120 people and they all, you know, they go to the wedding, they hang out at the pavilion and they go to their tent, go to sleep. And so not many of them are staying multiple nights. But we do love having the regular glamps, you know, we get to know them so well and we do a lot of live music around the fire pits and the bar is very popular. So, people tell us over and over again it’s all about the experience and the details. Like we, like every tent has a beautiful orchid in it. Just it all the little touches seem to be really appreciated [00:14:00] by the guests that we have coming and staying at the park. Connor: Yeah, Ruben: a hundred weddings is a lot. So kudos to that. Congrats. Nancy: And, yeah, we started with three, the first year. Ruben: Yeah. Very good grill. John: Yeah it’s actually nice having the split in business. Nancy and I will look at each other once in a while after we’ve just done, you know, four or five weddings in a row and move to glamping for two or three days and we’ll just say, oh, this’ll be a nice break. And you know, even though Nancy states the glamping, regular glamps are a little bit more demanding than regular wedding people. Yeah, I was gonna say, it’s nice to have the alternative, especially back in, you know, bouncing back and forth all the time. Yeah. And it makes no difference to any of us other than, you know, we have one team that’s basically set up to cover off weddings more from a a point of view of, you know, running golf carts and and kind of a little [00:15:00] bit of wedding planning that we do. Connor: If, oh, go ahead Ruben. Ruben: No, I was just gonna say, I mean a hundred is great and I mean, it’s funny because it sounds like you guys have really gotten a hold of that, which is great cuz you know, often, you know, people say they wanna do food and beverage and weddings up until the moment that they’re doing food and beverage and weddings because of how you know, complicated and you know, the money makes sense and, but often people can get over their skis a little bit and feel like they’re drowning. And so, it’s great to hear that you guys have figured out a really great cadence and mechanism for both of them because it’s a little bit of best of both worlds. So, John: yeah. And we don’t, and we don’t do, we don’t do the food side of the business. We are licensed for 200 people from a liquor, a liquor control board point of view. But all of the wedding dinners are all catered. There’s enough demand to, for people to come to our facility that we can kind of create our own rules, which is really nice. So we tend to like to put together a list of preferred vendors, including preferred caterers. The ones that we [00:16:00] need know, staffed properly. They clean up afterwards. Sometimes when we come in the next morning, they’re cleaned up so well, all of… Nancy: we’re like, what do we do? John: There’s not a lot to do other than just setting up the tables and chairs for the next facility. Nancy: But I think what we really have learned is that there’s enough out there for everybody. So, you know, we really encourage all these separate other businesses, you know, we can all benefit together so that you know, it’s, they help us. We help them. We’re all one family. Like, one thing I say to all our staff is that I don’t care who it is coming through our gate you know, I want everybody to be treated really well and so they wanna come back and work with us. Yeah. So that has really been one thing that, you know, it’s, John: yeah, we don’t upcharge , any of our, Nancy: it’s a landmark. John: Any of our vendors is part of what Nancy is saying. Nancy: Yeah. They say We’re happy that you’re making what you need to [00:17:00] make, and we’re happy making what we make. And so we have a lot of people wanting to work with us, which is good because you know, it’s they know the facility now and it’s comfortable and it’s pretty chill. No uptight, everybody’s in their bare feet and , you know, it’s not like the average sweating. Zach: That’s actually one question I had for you guys. If you could talk a little bit more about staffing. You know, you just mentioned you want our staff, so I think that’s always an operator’s question. Like, how much do we try to do ourselves? How much, you know, do we allocate to full-time staff, you know, someone that’s on our payroll, like you said, that, you know, you’re trying to fulfill an obligation to them for year round employment. And then what are those things that you’ve said, you know, what, this is better handled through a collaborative partnership with, you know, some vendors and suppliers that we trust. Can you expand on that a little bit? John: Well, we’re, although we’ve [00:18:00] been very hands-on in the past, one of the things that the revenue from the weddings allows us to do is have a presence of other professionals in the park. The further we end up running through the summer, the better things run. The better things run. There’s days again that we’ll look at ourselves and say, you know what? I don’t even think we need to go in today. Maybe tomorrow Nancy: you’re doing good without us. John: So, yeah. And it also allows us to pay our staff well. This is probably the fifth type of business that I have. , I’m the first fifth career that I’ve had in my life. So I’ve started everything from, you know, a one man shop up to, at one stage I had about 250 employees, so I’ve gone through all the growing pains. It is really nice when you can get to a stage where you have competent employees that can run the business and you can feel comfortable that you can take off for a couple of weeks if you need to. And you know, we’re, God forbid something comes up where you have to take time off [00:19:00] work. The staff is there to to support you, and they do it just as well as as if you were there doing it yourself. Nancy: I think we’re this year too, we were up to about 60 staff at the park. So, but it’s such. a nice environment that I think people are kind of people wanting to work are drawn to it because they’re outside all day. You know, even the cleaning, they’re all around going around on golf carts and yeah. You know, we really we’re we really are, number one thing is the guest experience. And so, we really like our staff to engage with the guests and I think it’s really been, it’s really been successful that way. John: Yeah. And we haven’t had the same sort of staffing challenges that so many other businesses have had. Yeah. We often say it’s like running a summer camp. The kids wanna work here. It’s like… Zach: 60, staff is a lot. What is your staff to guest ratio typically and what are those staff doing? What are the different [00:20:00] roles and responsibilities that you guys have? , Nancy: well, we have our, like our front desk and bar, which is a great big safari tent and has a cool bar in it. And so we’ve got our, you know, couple of front desk people on every day, and that goes till 10 at night. Housekeeping. Housekeeping is a huge team because on days we flip for weddings, we need to get 25 tents flipped in within three hours. So, and we’ve seen the employees seem not to mind to come in at 11 and leave when they’re done. So it’s not like we’re having to carry them for a full-time job. John: There’s always a landscaping person on, there’s a maintenance person on Nancy: wedding team you know, girls that take care of all the wedding stuff. And one of our, Connor: I just wanted to clarify, did you say 60 or 16? Nancy: 60. Connor: Wow. Okay. 60. That’s impressive Nancy: yeah, it’s a lot. Well, and you know, there’s never a 60 [00:21:00] there at one time, you know, it’s always different John: shifts and, yeah, because you’re running seven, Nancy: seven days a week, John: you know, 24 hours a day basically Connor: on, on average, how many, how much staff is on site? Like in the middle of the day, Nancy: middle of the day? Maybe maybe 25. John: No. In one day? Nancy: Well, if there’s a housekeeping team and the bar team, if there’s the wedding girls, like for weddings, there could be 25. John: Yeah, during a wedding there may be more, but on an average day, I would say maybe 16 people. Nancy: 16, yeah. Connor: Very impressive. I’m sure, you know, that is really contributing your positive guest experience and having that attention and that care and you know, level of service. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for the intro. I’ve had a chance to check out your guys’ website and your units look absolutely beautiful. I was really appreciating the, your guys’ headboards in particular for your king beds are gorgeous. With that message… Nancy: everything he harvested off the property, so let’s, it was a lot of creativity going on when we were [00:22:00] building was fun. Connor: Very impressive. Well, thank you so much for that intro. I wanna make sure I’m introducing Boris which is actually kind of a, quite a serendipitous story because I was just flying back from Mexico. And Boris and his team had reached out to me to ask about, you know, glamping and in our services. And he is doing something extremely unique. Definitely the first company that I’ve heard doing anything like this. Which is creating essentially a steam sauna experience but also combining it with glamping. And they’re coming out with kind of their proprietary and unique. Tented steam sauna experience. So kind of one aspect of the business is the actual tent structure itself. And then also is this very thoughtful and like magical and special you know, two to three hour experience going through a traditional steam sauna. And so, so Boris was telling me about this and asked me to come experience it firsthand. So I rerouted from Mexico and flew into San Francisco on Sunday night so I could [00:23:00] go experience their steam style experience on a rooftop in San Francisco of all places on a Monday night. And it was, I lived in San Francisco for three years and it was one of the best experiences I’ve ever had in that city. Pure magic and really had a, an amazing time. So, Boris, I’ll kind of let you take it over and give a little bit of an intro to you know yourself and essential steam and you know, where you guys are at as a business and what you’re offering Boris: . Yeah. Thank you Connor. I’m humbled to hear that you like the experience we had in San Francisco, like little rooftop sauna, we help building. So, yeah. I am Boris Ryabov and our company’s called Essential Steam. I’ve been running this for the last couple years. We actually started from deep interest in traditional healing. And there are so many various traditions like we, we can experience in around the world. And myself and the group around us [00:24:00] maybe became interested in watershed. Back then, I used to live Russia, which is Steam, and Russia is called , but like, it’s pretty much the same as. Finish town, a traditional finish town or later in ES or even Acal and Mexico or different varieties of steam and sweat cultures all around the globe. So we started off as a research and hobby groups, so to say. Were just like exploring. And there are a couple of masters who are teaching this art, you know, in Russia is like about whisking using the branches leafy parts of Oakland, which to treat the person in the steam environment, which is pretty much a body work, but as well, like the steam environment, not unlike sweat lodge in terms of trans in using experience as well, which is like adds to the transformative capacity of that. And then all of a sudden, like in 2016, we decided why don’t we try to take this experience, which we already laughed a lot to bury map. and we had a [00:25:00] couple of far friends and we took the whole thing to Burman. We have created the 10 structure, which was very simplistic. We came up with a very novel idea of creating the geodome structure, but covered with felt like because felt, feels so cozy and it’s a great material, doesn’t mold. Like, why don’t you try that? And at that point of time folks around us thought like, we are crazy. Cause like, why would you take it to Burman? It’s 110. Farenheit said, why would you ever think of creating a heat experience in Burman? And we told them like, you’re gonna, you’re gonna notice what’s gonna happen once you go out of the steam. You’re gonna experience this a hundred tens. Like, it’s like. Chill. Beautiful. So, in a sense it worked like that. So we had our first 700 people treated. We came up with with a testing process for our guided session. And that was perhaps the best the best customer development process you could ever imagine by going through very many experiences that, and then we [00:26:00] thought, okay, that’s perhaps a good thing and let’s try to bring it from the beman environment, from the festival environment into the default world. And keeping this the spirit of outdoor experience connecting to elements and still have it. Accessible for whoever lives in the city. So we started in Topanga, Los Angeles, which is pretty much within the city boundaries. A beautiful spot in Los Angeles. And we rented for one and a half, two years. And then we closed that one and we opened another one in Sonoma county in Petaluma, which is Northern California. We’re residing right now. And another part of that, like another place we have created was basically the permanent property of Burman at in, in, in Northern Nevada called Fly Ranch. I mean, if you’re familiar with Burman culture, you going to perhaps know Fly Ranch. That’s where we’ve got one of our one of our Steam bus. So, the learning we had was that it is a great format like cause we are at the same [00:27:00] time creating an environment which is testable. And the Sonoma and the Topanga locations were pretty much close to large cities, but for Fire Ranch, it was an experience to go there. Like it takes you five, six hours to go there from wherever. I mean, perhaps two hours from Reno, Nevada, and then five hours, six hours from San Francisco. And that’s an adventure in itself. Burman use uses to create their gatherings over there and then Campos, and so on. And the experience itself plays the mo guided team experience, which takes like two or three hours. And the most important component within that is, is a communal experience. So, like, we created for a number of people and the combination of guidance and heath and steam and herbs and the, and everything. Of both regenerative nature, but as well something which has experienced as [00:28:00] perhaps one of the deepest dives into the, like one of the deepest inner journeys. Cause we do it deem the lights. We create an environment which really invites people to have a dive, a sensory deprivation of some sorts, but as well has some healing properties by pointing to to the tensions of the body and releasing the tensions of the body. So it’s a combination of body work and transformative experience. Without needing to to overcome any of the cultural barriers or any of the, like, ethical barriers. It’s very natural. Like it’s very it’s something which we feel like we are connected to. And that’s pretty much what happens pretty much all around the culture. So we are all connected to that, even though we haven’t, we have for perhaps forgotten that. So, and then our next steps came out naturally to be to create a network of such spaces. So after we have ran it for a while in California, we understood, okay, let’s try that out. We understand the unit economics, we understand the model, and we have we have [00:29:00] simultaneously started a. Of development projects. We are gonna have two permanent applications in California. We are building another one in Nevada and outside of United States as well in Indonesia and Bali. We’ve got a couple of applications we are we are developing right now. So pretty much grows as a network of places, but as well as a community of practitioner. And as well the most important component to that is not just the engineering of the space itself, but the knowledge how to guide. So we create a non-profit to educate and to learn together and to teach together for the practitioners of steam because it sort of requires a particular discipline of mind to, to run it properly. But as. Knowledge how to play. And so basically here we are we are growing, we are running sessions. And we believe in the culture really. So we believe that for the outdoor regenerative [00:30:00] experience, the communal experience of going into deeper and more relaxed process place. And very important role cuz basically we are not really coming outside outdoors to just spend time, but we really want to have like a process of gaining coming to our essence in a sense. Like, and for that we need to have such experiences which are definitely changing something inside of ourselves. And that’s what what we are doing. So we believe that. We are doing exactly this thing. And again, tradition is on our side because pretty much if you look back in couple of centuries you’re gonna see that pretty much everywhere outside of Africa. Whenever you need to face elements, whenever you need the face, hard shapes, cold weather, hot weather, people would have invented steam to be able to deal with that. And without that, we wouldn’t really be alive. And then again, for northern [00:31:00] countries like Northern, Northern Eurasia, including Russia, it’s very obvious. We know that like, without buying sauna, we wouldn’t just exist. We need at all. But we, for we forgot it a little bit, living cities, but again, with the onset of outdoor culture, Climate culture in particular. I think it becomes obvious that we really need regeneration in some deepest sense. And that’s what we are doing. And we definitely believe that working together with GLE partners, with owners of properties and with other service providers in partnerships we can create something really beautiful and that’s what we are looking for and we are reminding everyone to to find us and have a chat and perhaps see us and have experiences well, to understand what we’re talking about at essential team.com or just reaching out to myself and I’m really happy to answer whatever questions you’ve got. Yeah. Connor: Thank you. Thank you so much, Boris, for that intro. And it’s such a unique such a unique experience. And I think, you know, a lot of us get into the outdoor [00:32:00] industry because, you know, the disconnect to reconnect idea. And I think sometimes, you know, even getting out into nature is fantastic, but I feel like having a steam sauna experience is like one level further of this disconnection, you know, you can’t bring your phone in there and then it’s so damn hot and you’re just focused on breathing that you know, your other worries and problems kind of melt away and it turns into this, you know, physical, mental, and communal experience at least you know, when I went through it. And yeah, so I, I think it’s incredible. I would do you wanna elaborate just a little bit more about, you know, if someone’s listening to this and they’re a property owner and they’re thinking, oh, it could be good for glamping, or, you know, it could be good for this type of experience. Like, what might that look like for essential steam and like partnerships… Boris: Of course. Yeah, that’s pretty easy. So, as I said, we started off as thinking about that through the perspective of a festival, thinking that we need to set it up fast, we need to dismantle it fast, and then we can’t really do the foundation sort. We can’t concrete and and actually yet it [00:33:00] needs to be like the right thing. So we came up in a couple of generations of our product. We came up with the steam bus itself, which is a modular structure 18 by 27 feet. Very beautiful. I really, I mean, it’s it’s a marble. And it took us a while to set it up and it, it is assembled on site within couple of days. Really doesn’t really require foundations and so on. So that’s the most important thing. Fits 12 to 20 people. And that’s really the, it is really built for the. Communal se sessions for the group sessions and steam and really set up for that. And we can set up a couple of those. Just one of those it runs a session takes two to three hours. Okay. That’s one part. Another part would be the outdoor facilities, which is a water station, experiential water station. Basically the place where people are being poured with water and there should be fire paint. That there should be like a place to sit around the fire. And that’s important to. from the experience [00:34:00] perspective, but as well, it’s very cool and still, and yet another thing is a launch and then launch racing rooms depending on the climate they might be more like just a temp shadow or they might go way into closed closed space. And then for that are different types of structures. There are 10 structures suitable for that. Or a property owner might already have a particular particular space for that which can be used for this purpose. So it’s just a space where people would relax, chill after the session, and perhaps doom music drink tea or kaka or whatever. So, Zach: So to clarify, Boris, you guys are not, you’re not selling a unit, you’re not producing. Boris: We do produce steam bath, so we do produce. But your product infrastructure. Zach: But your product infrastructure multiple structure types. Boris: Yeah. Yeah. So, so, because you would consider it like mountains versus desert versus uh, coast would be different. So the one thing which is very unique and very special [00:35:00] is the steam bath itself. So like the steam structure itself, because it has a number of engineering things, and that’s credit. So it can understand like, five feet of snow can understand desert winds. We understand whatever. So it’s is built for multiple different types of users. Everything else is really climate dependent and dependent on the property. So this is the infrastructure part. And then we would consider, like it’s about 250 to 400 K per the whole. , like, all investment, depending again on the particular location and so on. That’s one part. The other part of the ex to, to the story is the is the process itself and there becomes operator and we help set it up and we help educate people and we help. Usually we will think of body workers who are reeducated to do that. So we’ve got protocols and we’ve got who, how we educate steam guides as we call them, and steam guardians as we call them. So the third [00:36:00] component is the marketing. And our, this really depends upon whether it’s a proximity location or it is a destinational location. Now, for proximity locations, you would expect people to come frequently, once every time, because again, it’s, this is a type of experience which people really wish to repeat. Once everywhere. And for destination locations, you would obviously expect people to come pretty much as a bundle. So here this becomes an extension of the locations offering, and it can go different directions. So one is it expands the seasons because think of sudden that you’ve got autumn, you’ve got fall or spring time when it’s not really well, you really need to do something to feel really good in the environment. So, and then steam really offers that. Cause like you’ve got several hours of beautiful state whatever the weather is. And you are still connected to the outside, so like you don’t want to stay inside. So you. Go round. And that one, that this is one direction. And [00:37:00] another direction would be just basically to have the regenerative experience itself within the suffering, and then people would really stay overnight. So it’s if has synergies with with overnight with overnight stays and lodging and restaurant, of course. So, so we are doing the marketing part as well. We are helping to set up the marketing proposal and be it bundles or be it community marketing. Now for community marketing, another thing is the experience BOR is borderline retreat experience. And then from this perspective, it’s really Whatever you like, yoga class or or meditation class or whatever. And we’ve got experience doing this. So if there are offerings or components of offerings which are providing for regenerative, for transformative or educational component, this becomes a good synergy with steam and awesome So we help set it up. So that’s, these are three things here we are coming with. And and then of course like in the construction phase we’ve got our own architects we can work [00:38:00] together with the location architect to to see what needs to be tweaked and how to set up location, how to create a. Connor: Awesome. Thank you so much, Boris. I appreciate that. Well those were some fantastic intros, , I just realized that I haven’t actually had a chance to introduce myself, so I wanna take a moment to do that and then go round the table. So, my name’s Connor Schwab. work at a company called Sage Outdoor Advisory. Essentially we help launching and expanding outdoor hospitality businesses in North America. And we do that through feasibility studies and appraisals. We really kind of stand in between, you know, outdoor hospitality owners and operators and the money side, so either banks and lenders or private investors. And then we’ve been putting a really big focus on the glamping data side of things and really starting to kind of track and curate data on the, in the glamping space across the. To kind of pave the road for and make it easier for more, you know, outdoor hospitality businesses to get funded by making some of those key metrics available. One of the things I wanted to chat about with the remainder of our [00:39:00] time, which I think kind of bodes well to, to both of our special guests is I wanted to chat about glamping amenities and, you know, what’s, what in particular brings high ROI to, to your property. And, you know, whether it’s food and bev, private bathrooms, a sauna spa catering to other outdoor amenities, whatever it might be. And I wanted to lead off with Zach and Ruben and give you guys a chance to hop in here. But I would just be curious, like, in your knowledge of the industry or your experience speaking with clients if you were launching your own glamping business and you’re thinking about roi, like what, what’s gonna be. The highest return on your investment for a really good guest experience, as well as getting, you know, a high average nightly rate in occupancy. Was just curious what your guys thoughts are on that subject. Ruben: Go ahead, Zach. , Zach: well, do you wanna take the lead on this one? Ruben: Go ahead. Zach: You know, the thing that we tell a lot of our clients is that when you’re in the outdoor hospitality industry, and I was so glad to hear John [00:40:00] and Nancy talk about this earlier we’re not in the accommodation business. You know, if someone is just looking for a place to stay, there’s a holiday in or ramada that’s gonna be a lot more cost effective. Glamping is an immersive guest experience. It’s a hosted guest experience. That takes a lot of involvement, that takes a lot of staff that’s well trained and has support and backing and abilities. If you take care of your staff, they’ll take care of your guests. And so I think, you know, in general, it’s not about a specific amenity. It’s not about a, you know, a certain thing if we do this, we increase our ROI by X amount of dollars per day or anything. I think it, it really starts with how you’re approaching that. What is it that you want your guests to experience? What is the experience that you’re trying to deliver on your site. And again, I’ve had a few minutes here to kind of peruse John and Nancy’s website and they’ve obviously got that figured out. You know, they’ve got the secret sauce and you know, [00:41:00] much the same way you know, listening to Boris, I mean, these are the types of things we look for, right? These are unique guest experiences. You know, anybody can go. And spend the night someplace. And more so now it’s becoming more, more common for people to even go and spend the night in a tent. But when someone comes back into the office after an incredible restful weekend and they’re like, you guys aren’t gonna believe what I did. I had a steam bat, I had a sauna. We went to this place. I’ve never done it before. It was three hours. It was incredible. Right? That’s what people are chasing. And so that, that would be my perspective on it. It’s not about accommodations, it’s about creating guest experiences. Yeah. And couldn’t agree more with that. And I think even now, I mean for anybody who’s new or existing and was either expanding or opening up for the first time five years ago, there was a level of able just kind of throw things up and most things would work. Now with the high [00:42:00] level of. Competition. There’s a lot more operators now than there ever have been. It’s not about even just amenities, it’s how do you really differentiate yourself? Because now people are go glamping for the first time and they say, great. Like, what else is out there? We’ve got very well versed users and travelers that we just haven’t had five or 10 years ago. And so how do you create a unique experience that maybe other people don’t have versus, you know, just kind of throwing something up. And then the second is just being able to use what the land gives you. Right? I mean, John and Nancy, you guys were mentioning how you guys were able to. You know, take stuff from the land and create those headboards and, you know, use what the land is giving you. Sometimes operators can force something onto their property because they saw it somewhere else, and it just doesn’t fit into their brand. It doesn’t fit into the type of guests that they’re attracting. And eventually the wheels will fall off. You know, you can only fake it for so long. And so really [00:43:00] having an experience in those amenities that are you know, not only unique but something that you can actually produce with a high level of being genuine is huge because the guests can really tell when they experience is not real or it’s a bit more, it’s not authentic. It’s a bit fake. And then also the operators eventually will be like, well, I can’t do this anymore. It’s not sustainable. And so having experiences that are unique, but then also scalable and sustainable that you can build off of. are huge because travelers now have more options than ever, and they’re not stupid. And they’ll be able to sense what’s genuine and what isn’t. And then also for the sanity of the operator, you want to be able to do something that you feel passionate about that you can do. And so being able to, you know, hearing Boris’s passion around you know, his product and service is exactly what operators should should be looking at, because eventually you’re the one who has to get up and really kind reinvent that and bring that experience to the guests. And if you’re just not, you know, if it’s not there, if you can’t scale it, if it’s not a [00:44:00] passion or whatever might be, eventually, you know, you end up having to give that up or people find that out. So that would just be my 2 cents. Connor: Love it. Thank you Ruben. And Ruben, I wanna put you on the spot a little bit. If you were opening your own property that, that you were designing, doing the site layout, the guest experience what might that look like? Ruben: Oh man. That is on the spot. You know, I think more than ever having something that’s on the pro, I mean, we leverage a lot the local community and what people do there. But I think having something from start to finish is really big. Even if it’s simple, you know, when people wake up having kind of that delivery of what breakfast could look like, but they can kind of experience, you know, maybe grinding their own coffee or, you know, putting together their own kind of fruit and kind of yogurt bowls. And having having experiences that are within reach where people don’t have to drive to, I think is huge. Right. And sometimes [00:45:00] properties will have that availability and sometimes the reality is that they just won’t. And so, being able to have trails that are on site and being creative. I’ve seen some really creative, like art walks, you know, these art installations where if somebody says, great, yeah, I’m not gonna go mountain biking, you know, I can’t do this trail running, but they can kind of walk, have these really cool, you know, art installations or kind of history of the property. I love the idea, and John and Nancy, you guys kind of talked about the watering hole. I imagine it’s a play on words of an actual watering hole in a way. You know, being people really appreciate the uniqueness of thought. You know, I’ve seen some really great brands that have used play on words for the brand and everything. You know, people just really create, you know, love that creativity. and then having options. You know, I really love this kind of unique experiences at night too, where people do well, we’ve got, you know, you know, wine tasting or you bring the community now on the property, you know, so you have the wine tasting or whiskey or breweries that come in and [00:46:00] have that or you know, you’ve got barbecue joints that will come in and do kind of a, here’s how you do a smoke brisket tutorial, and then they get to eat it and things like that. Any excuses is keep people there. And most importantly, from an operator standpoint, for them to spend money, right? They’re spending X amount for the units themselves, instead of them going out and spending money in other plates, why not spend money there? So I think those would be the foundational elements that I always look at. And then different ways to get technology to also capture that. I mean, people are, you know, people don’t go glamping every single weekend, and it’s a little bit of a luxury you know, for them. They’re not, you know, it’s maybe something they do once or several times outta the year. and being able to leverage technology so that they’re getting pinged before their trip and so that there’s a less, you know, there’s not as much anxiety. They know what they’re getting themselves into. And then also from a host standpoint, reminding them, Hey, there’s a brisket tasting on that Friday when you’re sign up, it’s an extra 50 bucks. Just making it kind of Yes, no, as easy as [00:47:00] possible because people, you know, they don’t go glamping, right? We’ve talked about this. People don’t go glamping just to sit in their tents all day, right? They need to do things. And so, and humans can be lazy, so how do we make it as easy as possible for them? Here’s the options, kind of yes or no, I think is really important for the operators. Connor: I love that. I could relate to what you were saying about, you know, grinding your own coffee and like making your own fruitful and like my dream for when I do open my property in the future will. I want the guests to be able to go out to a chicken coop and pick their own eggs that they’re gonna have in their morning omelet. And then I want to have just like the coffee and breakfast view experience to be like the pinnacle of the whole thing. Ruben: I mean, something that we don’t talk about a lot, but I mean, it’s just where are these people coming from? And I’m John and Nancy. I’m sure you guys see this too. If you’re, I believe you guys said you’re close to Toronto. I mean, people who live in the city, you know, sometimes they just don’t have it as much access or experience. I mean, we forget because maybe we and experience the outdoors all the time. There’s [00:48:00] some people, right, who go glamping or can stay at these unique stays who’ve never really been in Mother Nature, you know that much or much before. And so you, these little experiences that maybe we are like, oh that’s kind of simple. They’ve never done that before. They’ve never been around chickens, right? They’ve never gone to like, and so that’s the little things that they. They you know, they take photos of, they tell their friends about because they live, you know, and have lived within the city. And so just a little bit of that reprieve some of the simplest things. You know, we don’t have to have all these bells and whistles that are extravagant sometimes. It’s those simple things that the land gets you that really make the biggest difference. Connor: Yeah, and I know our mission at Sage is we really want to connect more of the mass population. Maybe people in an urban environment or people who don’t consider them outdoorsy, give that mass population as many good authentic chances to have a real experience in nature and connect with nature and start to kind of bring back some of those things that [00:49:00] used to be ingrained in our daily life, but aren’t, you know, with the advent of cities and technology, you know, we don’t get exposed to them as much, but really you know, more of a mass population and experience with nature and kind of fostering that general environmental stewardship amongst, you know, the population. We’re, we’ve got about three minutes, John and Nancy. I was just curious from a, if you were building a second site and you could only, you know, invest in, in one, you know, amenity or invest in one experience, you know, one aspect of the guest experience or like an amenity in the units, what would you be like, yes, for sure. We’re this is what we’re going all in on. Our guests love it Nancy: and packages their and whistles. I think like the coffee’s, so many coffee makers, if I have the best one. So that would make great coffee and sit on, enjoy the view. And so I think it’s all the little things [00:50:00] that. Connor: After my own heart. Nancy: Yeah. And then, and all the dishes and glasses. So plastic stuff, you know. So it’s, I think everything that, all our favorite thing put in one and amazing to me see how people come to every day and say, just can’t the details. So some details, but yeah, John: thank us for building it. Thing that we hear so often. And so if I had to, one thing, the property is really key. Our property has been so given to us. Not only do we have the water, we’ve got, you know, natural fish, we’ve got sand, so we those into and badminton quarts. We’ve got a great mixture. We’re staying open field. So we do have some farming. We’ve got the guest love. [00:51:00] We’ve probably got five plumbers through through the property. And there’s enough space amongst the property. That’s the other thing, as much property privacy, they, it hasn’t been that one risk for us to put the underground infrastructure in for the water, the systems. So if I, if had to do it over again, probably have to spend a year or two just in the, yeah, that’s the end of the day. Connor: definitely. And alright we’re about out of time. I wanted to kind of give everyone, just go around the table if anyone had, you know, any last messages that they wanted to share with the audience. You know, about your own business and what you guys are working on. John and Nancy. It seems like you guys have an absolutely phenomenal offering. I guess I would encourage anyone listening to go check out your guys’ website. And same with Boris at Essential Steam. But I guess [00:52:00] I want to give everyone a chance to maybe just leave the audience with one last, one last piece. So, John and Nancy, do you wanna lead us off? Nancy: I don’t know. We just last to be put into this thing that we’re doing and I think you know what, you’re a heart guide. You and love it. Then just run with it and it’s really worked well. Us we’re just so happy. We can share what we’re doing with. Connor: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. How about you, Boris? Boris: Yeah. One last thing here would be, as for me, the outdoor hospitality industry and what we are doing as well is not just about taking us out of the cities to try to connect to Mother nature and to the elements such as, well, it’s more, it’s not just even experiences, you know, it’s not about just the experience economy as it was used to be marketed in back in the nineties, but it’s more about [00:53:00] changing ourselves. So I do believe in transformation which happens and changing our attitude towards others. So once we start taking care of others, More communal type setting, more caring setting, more teaching setting. So like in a setting where we are really learning something which changes us where we are not just guests or service providers, but we experience our communication as something really different, really different from what we have been used in the cities. So I believe in that and I believe this is what we are doing freely and I believe this is the future and I really wish to be part of that. Connor: I love it and definitely keep me in mind for when you roll out the backyard program, because I want one and I and how about you, Ruben? Ruben: No, just tell all the operators too out there. I know this is a funky time of the year as people are [00:54:00] reloading before the kind of end of the year and gearing up and all of a sudden you blink and it’s 2023. So good luck to everybody as they’re hopefully taking a deep breath and getting ready for you know, everything that’s ahead of them in the new year. It’s, I think, an important time to. To digest everything and actually get some rest and before things just hit the hit overdrive one more time. So good luck to everybody in this in this time before you, hopefully you’re on to bigger and better things. Connor: Yeah we hope everyone’s getting some, some well deserved rests, that’s for sure. And anyone who’s tuning into this, I if you’re looking to launch or open a outdoor hospitality or glamping business, the very first thing that you should do is talk to Ruben and be a part of the American Glamping Association. It’s just a wealth of information and a support network to just help get you the resources and tools and tips you need. So, that’s the very first thing you should do. And then Zach, you. Wanna bring us home? Zach: Sure. I want to be the second phone call after Ruben . Ruben: You be [00:55:00] the first Zach, you’d be the first. No, I, We’ll both be second. Zach: The thing that I would just try to leave everyone with is, you know, I mean, this is a fun industry. I tell people every week, like, I, I have one of the best jobs in the world because I get to work with people who are passionate and caring and, you know, they’re, yes, we’re gonna make money. It’s a business, but that’s almost secondary to everything else that, that they’re doing. They feel driven, that there’s this impetus behind them that I must go and do this thing. And so I love being a part of that. I love working with passionate people that are building their dreams. But the thing that I would leave with everyone is you don’t have to do this on your own. You know? I think A lot of people sort of have that idea, that concept, and they don’t really know how to get there. They, you know, here’s where I’m at. Maybe you’ve got land, maybe you don’t have land. Maybe you’re looking for land and you have an idea about what you want to do, but you’re not really sure the steps involved. What’s that gonna look like? [00:56:00] You know, what can we do? What can’t we do? What’s the approval process? How do I get financed? You know, all these questions that come up. And I feel like a lot of folks kind of struggle to get into it because they don’t know that there are all these resources. There are all these people that are out there that this is what we do. You know, this is what Reuben does, this is what Connor does, this is what we do. We’re there to help. And sometimes, you know, that’s just a phone call. You know, I’ve talked to people each week that maybe. They don’t really need me. But we will talk for an hour. I’ll answer a lot of their questions and you know, sometimes I get a call back and it’s nine months later and it says you might not even remember me, but we talked like sometime last year, I finally got land. We’re closing on the property in 90 days and I need some design. And then, you know, some of these ideas that we’ve talked about the guest experience, the stretching it further. You know, a lot of the folks we work with are like, these are great ideas, but I, you know, maybe you’re listening to this saying, I’m not really that [00:57:00] creative person or, I’m not that host that’s gonna go walk around. I’m an extreme introvert, right? Like, I’m not gonna go down and host the campfires and get people talking or run a yoga class or do a group sauna. You know, there, those might be outside of somebody’s comfort zone. But there’s other things that we can do. And some folks just need a little help getting there, you know, and that’s what we do. We pitch the ideas, we come up with concepts. We’ll, you know, design and render. Have you thought about this? What about this? So you don’t have to be that super creative person that out of the box thinker and you don’t have to have it all figured out before you get started. You know, take advantage of the resources and the design professionals, the people that are here to help you do that. Connor: Yeah, a absolutely. And if anyone does need any design or architecture work, definitely give Zach a call. Clockwork Designs. And I couldn’t agree more. I think the, one of the most special parts about this industry is everyone’s willingness to help each other. And I think, you know, Ruben as well as Modern Campground and the Glamping Show and the Glamping [00:58:00] magazine have played a massive role in that kind of general comradery and people being willing to help each other. And I think, you know, we’ve got a lot more to gain by that. So, yeah. I hope everyone keeps it up. I’m Connor Schwab I work at Sage Outdoor Advisory. If you, your business need any help with feasibility studies, appraisals, or market studies and revenue projections, that’s kind of our bread and butter. But thank you so much everyone for being on a show. Thank you Modern Campground for hosting us. It’s an honor for all of us to be here and. That’s all for for today. Nancy: Thank you. Zach: Thanks everyone. [00:59:00]